The female character are not just oversexualised, they are straight up poorly designed

[heavy magnet]

Honestly, I'm kind of impressed it hasn't gotten mentioned more.

[mossy escarp]

Tbf that was a good faith mention of concord hitting on (part of the reason) why the designs actually sucked

The other part was just that they were incredibly bland

I think I recall some of them not even having archetypical tropes

[heavy magnet]

Well, speaking of tanks, I decided to make a warrior ant Hunter named Freyja.

I was going to name her something similar to the Latin word for ant "formica", but I couldn't find anything.

See, Theorycraft? It's just that easy.

[mossy escarp]

Formica could be a solid name actually. Maybe add your own twang to the word to make it fit your vibe better

[heavy magnet]

I do like the idea, but I feel like calling her “Ant” in a fancy sounding language is kind of lazy.

Does Amelia fit her?

I also didn’t realize this went that far back.

[untold fox]

It's been off and on since as long as I've been around, which is fairly deep in closed beta. Probably before.

[gentle summit]

hahahahahahaha

[white kestrel]

what so funny

[untold fox]

Knowing vuli, that such critiques still exist, and/or that this version with a confrontational title has bad response ratio. But maybe I'm wrong.

[gentle summit]

Its axtually not that deep im just being an ass cos i thought it was funny with the state of game ppl care about this while at the same time idm it also. Rrlly im judt beingshit head here my bad xD

[tiny yew]

Sometimes I'm in the mood for Supervive and sometimes I'm in the mood to argue about Supervive lmao

[dry forge]

I am always in the mood to argue about supervive, especially if it involves hudson

[heavy magnet]

I don’t mind a lot of the changes, aside from the game seeming to turn towards more gacha elements.

Samey female Hunters being part of that is up to you.

[dry forge]

Calling them "samey" is honestly kinda bs. I didn't even think they looked similar at all until now, and that is literally just when I look at thwir body even when for most of them that isn't the main focus of their design.
I find and weird snd honestly kinda dumb

[storm python]

CIRCLE

[heavy magnet]

https://tenor.com/view/drakeandjosh-spherical-present-take-this-offer-gif-5396234

[rotund crystal]

u just dont get it man theyre all the same cuz girlsare all the same

if u dont agree that the girls in supervive are all the same then ur sexist

[heavy magnet]

I changed up some details and her name to Diana.

It's just that easy.

[raven frost]

Keep it real with you chief

I would only play that bc theres only 1 tank in the game

[heavy magnet]

With the axe in mind, she could server as an aggressive counterpart to Oath.

[raven frost]

Oh no the axe is fire shes just ugly

Maybe its me actually I reslly dont like bugs

[untold fox]

Hero forge tends to be about customization first, actually aesthetic second

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, I just did this as a mock-up.

It’s great for when you want to create something quickly for a reference photo.

[mossy escarp]

Dianta

Hehe

[tiny yew]

No complaints here

[fleet grotto]

u can also name it john, is not like in this kind of design it matters if its male or female

[hollow crane]

lmao

bro no please dont

[untold fox]

So getting nerdy about this - on one hand sure. Some characters will have little to no signifiers of human gender. Still can be important to have some of those be femme, just because otherwise it means masc is our default, with all sorts of knock on stuff.
On another hand, ants and other eusocial insects are overwhelmingly infertile females. So it's accurate basis in nature if your ant character would count as femme.

[hollow crane]

i didnt know this about ants that is very interesting

[fleet grotto]

I mean no its not even about feminine characteristics or not, its not like I care if khazix on league is male

or reksai is a female

I could not give less fucks

[hollow crane]

would be cool to have a girl minotaur and she uses her udders somehow

[fleet grotto]

as I said, just make beebo a female

nobody will care

[hollow crane]

wrong

people will care

because now youre taking away a nonbinary character

[fleet grotto]

idc if its binary nonbinary female male or w.e it is thats the thing

beebo is beebo

its cool

on its own

blitzcrank is also nonbinary I dont really care

they said reksai is a girl

well, ok I still dont care

its reksai

[hollow crane]

what if instead of reksai it was freaksai

and she was freaky as hell

[fleet grotto]

its w.e its a monster

if anyone cares about its gender its a them problem lmao

[heavy magnet]

Well, I choose this character to be a girl, then.

Checkmate.

[fleet grotto]

thats perfectly fine for me its a monster character and thats it

[hollow crane]

what if we had a female character that was kinda like a labubu

[heavy magnet]

Elluna.

Also, I think if the next Hunter is more of the same, I'll probably just leave Supervive behind for good.

The game's fun, but so is Deadlock.

[untold fox]

Odds are better than usual it's not more of the same.

that shadow has some broad looking shoulders. Still possible it could be whatever of course.

[raven frost]

If she's another fucking fighter

I swear

[mossy escarp]

Ellubu

[mossy escarp]

Unironically been having a blast (and loads of frustration) playing it

[untold fox]

in my experience the two work well together as active games. Supervive is relatively quick, swingy, etc, while deadlock has the slower pace of a moba.

[mossy escarp]

My biggest frustrations with Deadlock are the moba tropes of farm diff making the weaker player useless, and taking forever for certain characters to get online and be useful. The combat is INCREDIBLY fun though (outside of like 3 outlier new characters that are so easy and strong a coma patient could play them)

[untold fox]

Which 3?

[weak coral]

Once I get a better computer that can actually run it comfortably I’ll be playing Deadlock every day

[mossy escarp]

I was pulling a number out of my ass but Doorman is brainbusted op, mina is annoying as shit, and a good Drifter just one shots you from full health

There are others that are annoying but those are the annoying new characters

[untold fox]

I do love how even in their annoying aspects their kits articulate their charatcters - doorman does space warping bullshit and shoves you around, mina is this aggreessive attacker who becomes all powerful if you don't clamp her down, and drifter is a serial killer that wants to catch you alone in an alley.

That expression of character via play feel is something I think supervive is often quite good at too (kp feels like a bully who fights unfair, mercury takes calculated use of set resources).

[rotund crystal]

mina is fine and doorman is kinda fine rn just good in a rly good players hands

but victor and drifter are mental lol

victor u just become thanos when u reach a certain soul count. drifter just super snowballs

[untold fox]

Victor needs to get pretty deep into his load out to get scary, in my experience.

[rotund crystal]

yea its not hard to farm on him tho. u get decent camp clear perks pretty early on then just afk farm for a bit hit a few waves and boom giga tank

[mossy escarp]

Doorman try to miss a bell challenge level: impossible

[rotund crystal]

yea they made some of the new characters insane at laning dude. doorman bell is so strong and rest of kit works well in lane. victor just perma healing. mina love bite and tp super strong. drifter isn’t super strong but i swear his laning is ez then u snowball lol

billy is strong too and paige has good shield for support but her gun sucks that’s her main issue in lane

oh and mina’s 1 heals too for laning it’s op lol

[potent dragon]

Mina is literally the worst character in the game

Winrate wise

[hollow crane]

damn i go to sleep and corsehairpete is derailing a thread by talking about a different game

[rotund crystal]

cuz she’s hard to play. she is insanely strong in lane tho

lovebite is free dmg her 1 is a free heal and her tp is insane

i think a lot of ppl pick her cuz she looks nice n cool but she’s one of the actual hard champs to play so it screws her winrate stat bad

[potent dragon]

In high elo her winrate's even lower than her overall winrate

[rotund crystal]

yea i think she can use some buffs just saying her laning is rly strong

i was saying she’s fine to a comment that said she seems strong

[white kestrel]

Lash donates 3% of his earnings to his charity called "Lash-Back", dedicated to children "that kind of suck".

[raven frost]

My generous king

[heavy magnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WkXB8OBnII

Theorycraft could never, at the point they're at.

Although apparently, Vyper and Bishop share a voice actor.

[white kestrel]

https://www.vxreddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1n8qwaw/stephanie_kerbis_is_vyper/

[heavy magnet]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wei-oroRytY

There's also Paige, who has more personality than most of the female Hunters combined.

[broken wharf]

And her personality is books

Wholesome...

[raven frost]

And celetes is being a snobby dancer

Bishop shrike crysta Mercury dont have any

Ellunas is the closest to being an actual character

[untold fox]

I think deadlock does have great writing, but I think there's a good amount of personality to be found in supervive's voice work. I think without bios or other direct lore, or character interactions yet it's harder to anchor them in the setting.

[mossy escarp]

The voice work is definitely doing a lot of heavy lifting in terms of characterization

I would love to see a little extra something thrown in to make the world feel more lived in in the long term

Like how the announcer in deadlock comments on people's backstory when they pop off

Or the character conversations like League (also Deadlock)

[indigo verge]

im late to this one but calling zarya's design meaningless is fucking hilarious

she is literally used all the time as an example of overwatch's great character design work

mostly because her shape language is very well done and her design guides the eye very well to the key elements of the character

[static mauve]

crazy

this game has 1000 million

real issues

and ppl still think this shit sexualization whatever u want to call its a problem

maybe start creating theads about the real problems of the game not this useless shti

no wonder devs dont even open the dicsord with this terrible things here

its cause of ppl like u this game is shit

they dont listen to our feedback cause of threads like this

but unlucky

[tiny yew]

They don't read threads like this at all. And discussions like this crop up all the time, but it's not like every thread is like this. Complaining about 1 active thread is worse than anything else in this thread

[static mauve]

cause tghe moderation team in this sevrer is also incompetent

how is this thread not locked

[tiny yew]

Because no one's flaming or trolling?

[static mauve]

and jess thread talking about the real issues in the game is locked

haha

[static mauve]

XDDDDDDD

just go read all the past msg

[tiny yew]

They got tired of being ignored and left

Have to scroll up two+ pages to find any trolling

[dapper thicket]

Really bro? You're saying some trivial game design stuff is a more pressing matter than gender equality and over-sexualization?

[static mauve]

yes

[tiny yew]

And all of that design language guiding the eyes to the key elements of the character would make for a great character design if those key elements weren't just the stock tropes for all tank characters

[static mauve]

besides being terribel

this thread is TERRIBEL

i never seen such a bad thread

all the points made in this thread are trash

[dapper thicket]

then you havent scrolled down

"Elluna feels bad right now."

[static mauve]

yes

they all suck

are horrible

and tahyts why

devs dont read this fkcing channel

cause of this guys

[tiny yew]

Why are you in this thread?

[dapper thicket]

now that Elluna thread is terribel

[static mauve]

to tell u how terrible it is

and that it should be locked

iom tired of clicking in #1253891195810349056 and have to see this disgusting shit

[hardy slate]

We all know Felix is the hottest character in the game.

[tiny yew]

You don't have to go in this thread lol. "I hate this restaurant. You there at table 2, were aware that this restaurant sucks?"

[static mauve]

are you slow?

dont u understand the real problem ?

this thread is useless and its an insult to whoever designed the chars in this game

only from reading the title i get cancer in my eyes

[hardy slate]

Oversexualized characters are usually the final attempt to keep player interest.

[static mauve]

and its cause of threads like this that the devs dont check this channel anymore

[static mauve]

AND

EVEN IF ITS OVERSEEXUALZIED WHO CARES

[timid shell]

my threads are 🔥 !!!

[static mauve]

AND HOW THE FUCK IS>THIS OVERSEXUALIZED?

i swrear i cant talk w any of youi

i really wonder what type of ppl u are irl

[hardy slate]

I'm just saying it doesn't bode well, given the writing on the wall.

[static mauve]

?

[indigo verge]

well in her case it's really not that bad actually. she is relatively unique in the tank class for the fact that her design guides her to her weapon rather than her own build

[static mauve]

you think oversexualization has osmething to do w the player count?

[indigo verge]

she is a well designed character for the reason that everything in her design revolves around her big scary weapon, to signify that she really fucking hurts

[hardy slate]

I'm saying the oversexualization isn't working.

[indigo verge]

yeah duh it's cause you're not trying to have a conversation lol

you're just screaming at imaginary people you made up to be mad about

[static mauve]

yea

i really hope you aree imaginary

i really really do

[indigo verge]

you literally opened a thread just to yell at how stupid the thread is

obviously nobody is going to have a conversation with you buddy

[static mauve]

yes this thread is getting revived every fkcing tday

[indigo verge]

yes because it's a controversial topic

that's how discussions work

[tiny yew]

Granted, but large weapons are pretty much the standard for tanks.

[indigo verge]

meh, not necessarily. the main standard for tank is just 'big beefy person' in most cases

[static mauve]

the topic

is rtdd

[indigo verge]

if you actually look at the tank class in overwatch for example most of them have quite small weapons comparably

[hardy slate]

The devs should put Felix in swim trunks - maybe then player numbers will go up.

[static mauve]

LIKE WHAT are u saying bro

like where did u read that

tanks should have small weapons?

[indigo verge]

fym read bro i'm seeing it with my own eyes

[static mauve]

is that just a thing?

[indigo verge]

???

[static mauve]

u decided?

[indigo verge]

where did you read that

no

it's not what i said lol

[static mauve]

so cause ow has it

[indigo verge]

i never said tanks should have small weapons bro you're just making up an imaginary person to be mad at again

are you okay

[tiny yew]

Just ignore him he's trolling to try and get the thread closed

[indigo verge]

fair point

[static mauve]

insane to sday that

when u prob dont even play the game

and u make this thread just to create conflict

yea and u know that

disgusting

i mean u prob not the only one

i bet most of the ppl here dont even play the game

and they wouldnt play if they "issue" was fixed too

[indigo verge]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-silly-cat-silly-ahh-silly-ahh-cat-goofy-gif-15009262023119441493

[rotund crystal]

u need to respect women more bro...

putting game balance over the representation of women? cmon man thats not it man..

[indigo verge]

when did game balance come into this

false dichotomy

supervive player try not to make a fallacious argument challenge

[tiny yew]

If your name is 'Toby Fox' then maybe character design and game balance are both your concern. Every other dev team has separate people for that...

Also ConcernedApe

[indigo verge]

yeah the idea that you either get good game balance or good character design but can't have both is the definition of a false dichotomy

there's no arguing with it because there's no argument to begin with

[mossy escarp]

Character design is fundamental to audience enjoyment at large. We like it when things look pretty or interesting, it's the best way to get someone's foot in the door.

Also the character designs are handled by people other than the ones doing the features changes at large

Idk I think this is a perfectly valid critique to have because every facet of a game can and will contribute to player perspective on it

Sorry that you don't like the post Lion, but realistically just don't comment on it if you want the thread ignored and closed. All you're doing is bumping it.

[static mauve]

you are right

i will create a thread about how evvery champ in this game should be a frog

cause i feel like it

and im sure it will be a really important thread cause u know why?

well its about character design!

and its fundamental to a game!

[mossy escarp]

That's entirely your prerogative man. It's not my place to try to invalidate what you believe to be good feedback to the game.

[static mauve]

its common sense

[mossy escarp]

If you believe so I'd encourage you to share your thoughts

Genuinely though and this is me being real. If you think you have good feedback please do share in your own post

Devs read what they can. Often they miss big threads like this or ones that devolve quickly

But they do read what they can

[static mauve]

i really hope they never read this

but sadly

one guy named mistersixtyfour is every fkcing day bumping this shti

saying things like this

[rotund crystal]

ofc he would like paige

the lady gooner

[untold fox]

You seem the largest driver of it rn dude.

Like, for someone who says they don't care or this doesn't matter, you posted here more than anyone else today. If you truly don't care, let people with opinions on visual design talk about it, and focus on the discussions you care about.

[static mauve]

holy i just saw

every msg u sent in this discord

since 2024

is about the "female char design problem"

holy shitttttttttttt

HAhaahahah

you are insane dude

you are completly obssed w this useless shit

i advise u take some therapy or somthing like that

i wish u the best

[untold fox]

I think character design is something you can do to make characters interesting.

[static mauve]

well but u only talk about

female character design

and how shit it is in this game

since 2024

u can just say that u want a fat woman

[untold fox]

I think tc has historically been more limited on the creativity which makes characters so fun when it comes to female characters, and that comes to a larger trend. I've talked about other parts of character design, but this is the one that gets the most chatter.

Because a bunch of people claiming they don't care about the issue come in and mald at the idea.

[static mauve]

i wonder why

u think that its gonna bring more ppl to the game

if they have fat females

[mossy escarp]

Please actually read the thread before making this claim. We've denied it time and time again

"Fat females" are not the goal

[static mauve]

having monster fat girls

alright i get it

[mossy escarp]

Characters that have bodies that articulate who they are is the goal

Elluna is great

Joule is great

But if a female tank came out and looked like Joule it would suck

[static mauve]

cool but guess what there isnt a female tank

[mossy escarp]

Unless she had something else in her kit other than hp doing the tanking

It was an example

[static mauve]

so theres no problem right now

is only if something hjappen

[untold fox]

Good grief man. Real zero to sixty on the aggro here.

[static mauve]

what

[mossy escarp]

You're extrapolating something that is very obviously beyond the scope of my opinion and takes.

Trickle down the concept of "tanks should be big" to any other character trait and that is the argument. "Witches should have x trait or similar", "giant slimeballs should have x trait or similar", etc.

I should be able to look at a character and tell at a glancw what their vibe is, get a read on their personality and gameplay style

Joule at a glance is a confident punk rocker, great

[static mauve]

doesnt this happen i nthis game?

[mossy escarp]

Yes but not for all characters, and definitely not equally

[static mauve]

example

[mossy escarp]

The difference between Joule and Mercury is quite stark. Mercury's design seems to contradict itself in a couple ways. Namely the confidence that the midriff implies compared to the meekness and gentleness that the rest of her outfit and posing implies.

She's very covered up, except for the center bit which cheapens what the rest of the design is trying to tell me.

I feel like it should lean in to one of those thing, having both isn't working for me.

Also I feel like her outfit isn't witchy enough to convey the alchemy/witch stuff it appears it's trying to imply

But that's more a me thing I think

[static mauve]

its that the only problem for u?

the mercury one?

or there are more chars that have same issues

and btw what u saying its not the main topic of thsi thread

and yes i have been reading all the msgs here

[raven frost]

Why do you guys argue with trolls

Why not just ignore them and move on

[raven frost]

An online friendship group

[static mauve]

ig im not a troll then

[raven frost]

You are entitled to your opinion

[mossy escarp]

Generally all the women have designs that range from great to fine imo. I'm not a fan of how tiny Tetra is for her role in the game, but Mercury is the only one I take active issue with.

I also think it's kinda boring that they've all been different kinds of skinny until Mercury though

I'd prefer to see some range in build. Would have loved to see Tetra be more built

[static mauve]

i think we both know why

u think it would be better for the game

to have more diff builds

would it bring more players for the game?

[hexed edge]

she's soulborn elemental thing so she's not particularly need to to be buff

[mossy escarp]

I think so yeah. Everyone wants to see someone who looks like them. It's easier to self-insert or relate to them. It's especially important with children though that's really not Supervive's audience

[mossy escarp]

Yeah that's a good lore explanation that can work. I'd feel more okay with it if she read more that way, like having visible elemental features on her body

Similarly with Crysta they just look like regular humans with weapons

Bc all of their elemental stuff is hidden and covered up

[untold fox]

She's not a soulborn. Even if she was, a more built design could have visually expressed her character. Why would a soulborn need to be small?

[hexed edge]

horns, rocks flying around her, she's glowing

[static mauve]

well i think thats exactly whats happening w the chars we have rn

[hexed edge]

and why souldborn need to be big and build?

no reason for both

she throws rocks with magic anyway, take Toph from avatar for example

[mossy escarp]

It's important that designs show some element of our unexpressed expectations so that we can latch on easily. Life experience has taught us that bigger, more muscular people tend to be stronger, and if they're leaner they tend to be quicker or more nimble. Something like that if not explicity necessary due to story purposes can help attain a certain vibe more immediately on first viewing

[raven frost]

Toph was small because shes a kid

When she gets older she is bulkier

[hexed edge]

this one is too probably

[static mauve]

but the chars in this game have that

[raven frost]

The earth bending that toph does highlights strength anyways

[static mauve]

maybe when we get the female tank her body will be just like u guys want

[untold fox]

But then why do we keep finding reasons for the most "intuitive" design for female characters to be young, slim, and baseline attractive? Like, the designers are purposeful, creatir folks. Do we think it a coincidence there's more weird and wild male designs (not just on build but age, role, kinds of appeal) than female characters? Like, why go for a default that ends up with humans whenever we go for women, when we clearly do that less for dudes?

[untold fox]

We'll see with scythe lady, in all likelihood

One way or another

Or she ends up being another controller

[static mauve]

even if they do that to satisfy the main audience

should we blame them?

[raven frost]

Yes?

[hexed edge]

because that's universally attractive and just works

surely they will diversify body types but why make situation even harder now

[raven frost]

We dont have to cater to what's universally attractive

Its the 21st century

[static mauve]

isnt common sense as dev to try satisfy ur main audience?

[untold fox]

Who is their main audience, how are they satisfying them, and what ratio of characters needs to appeal to that main audience?

[raven frost]

We can make new kinks

[hexed edge]

look at marvel rivals

[raven frost]

You dont always give people what they say they want

[untold fox]

How does it make it harder?

[untold fox]

How is that universally attractive?

[static mauve]

the audiecne are the ppl in general which they prefer a bodytype of the chars that we have now

[raven frost]

Rivals is enduring because its based on the most popular ip in the world in one of the most popular genres ever

Not because of Jean Grey's ass

[untold fox]

Is that our main audience? Why limit ourselves to those people?

[static mauve]

i mean the audiecne

is everyone

like every human

[mossy escarp]

I'd argue that Overwatch existing proves that sexy isn't necessary. That game was a crazy hit with a generally pretty diverse cast. Definitely had its fair share that were sex dolls though

[hexed edge]

non "standart attractive" body types is cool and all but probably attracts less people

[raven frost]

If you asked an ivy or vyper main in deadlock whether they would play a monster or a human they wouldve obv said human before they got their character

[static mauve]

and a human is most likely to prefer the bodytype of the chars that we hvae now

[raven frost]

But they like the character they got

[static mauve]

literally this

[raven frost]

Sometimes its better to serve people with things they didnt ask for and see how it goes

[static mauve]

and see how it goes

LOL

[hexed edge]

can't remember exactly but there were some good games on marvel that died fast

[raven frost]

If we are in the box the entire time then we dont do anything original

[static mauve]

but theres alrdy diff females in this game

elluna

eva

mercury is kinda diff than the others

and every single of them are also a bit different

bishop

[heavy magnet]

One is marketable plushie bait, and most of them are body pillow bait.

[static mauve]

hahahaha

[raven frost]

Ntm on elluna now

Calm down

And chill on eva

[static mauve]

even if thats true

whats the issue

[hexed edge]

bishop and shrike are same person with different wigs I swearXDD

[raven frost]

Elluna has an enduring playerbase because shes different

[hollow crane]

no way this is the main thread again today lmao

[hexed edge]

because shes strong right now

[static mauve]

says who?

[raven frost]

Shes proof you dont have to make the same shit over and over

[static mauve]

as if u know the playerbase

[raven frost]

?

Shes had a decent pickrate

[untold fox]

Marvel rivals has a huge budget, the largest ip, the protest vote of huge player base looking for any alternative, netease money. Also, the three female designs people lose their minds over the most are the three that break away from the cookie cutter model they inherited from the source material.

[static mauve]

i know u a furry dude

[raven frost]

For like her entire life

Why am I about to back and forth with you

Lmfao

[raven frost]

People played her when she was shit too

[hollow crane]

she has a playerbase cause she strong in the meta

[raven frost]

People like elluna bro idk what to tell you

Shes been good and shes been dogshit

People still played her

[untold fox]

Anyway, off to date night with the wife. Have fun with this.

[hollow crane]

have fun

[hexed edge]

idk, thats just what I heard about that game "Look! Woman!!"

[static mauve]

shes also rlly easy to play

and has a rlly different kit

[raven frost]

Ehhhhhhhh

[hexed edge]

gl

[static mauve]

u cant just say its just cause of her being a furry

[raven frost]

I mean thats not the only reason obv

[hollow crane]

no offense to normies but if u play or were excited to play rivals, a superhero hero shooter

idk man

[static mauve]

u think if she was human and like w similiar bodytype as maybe tetra idk the pickrate would be much worse?

[raven frost]

By that same token you cant say that people play attractive characters because they are attractive

[hollow crane]

its a normie game for gooners, anything u say about char models in that game like

literally doesnt translate

to a game like supervive

[raven frost]

Who knows

[static mauve]

alright so nobody knows

so u cant say it too

[raven frost]

I dont deny that playstyle is important to a character being popular

[hollow crane]

literally the most important, to rational people

but i do understand they need to sell skins to the people youre describing

[raven frost]

I simple assert that her design is also a factor in why people play her

[hollow crane]

to keep the servers going

[raven frost]

True but yknow

People like intresting designs

[hollow crane]

normies make the world go round

[static mauve]

ppl here dont have common sense

unlucky

[hollow crane]

im aware

discord is full of silver 4s

[static mauve]

they prob dont even play the game

[hollow crane]

i know they dont

like

the dude who made this thread

literally doesnt play

[static mauve]

well im not suprised

and im sure its not only him

[hollow crane]

no one does

this a deadlock discord

dookielock

[raven frost]

Speaking of deadlock!!

[hexed edge]

he doesn't have chonk woman to play for

[raven frost]

Mina is a good character design!

And i wish supervive had a character like her!

[hollow crane]

no idea who that is and im normal so i just wanna play someone whos kit fits my playstyle

[raven frost]

I am a playstyle first person

That dosent mean I cant have a discussion about character design tho

[hollow crane]

if u were a playstyle first person nothing else would matter 😭

[raven frost]

The idea that I only play characters because I like their playstyle

[hollow crane]

its like

[raven frost]

And the idea that design and personality are important

Are two things that can exist

At the same time

Like do I reslly care that mercury has her tetas out and every time im loading im bombarded with them

Not really

I care that her kit is boring

But I dont like the fact her design is not good

It dont got to be one or the other

[static mauve]

u dont like her design

[hollow crane]

i think my issue as well as most others responding

[static mauve]

im sure a lot of other ppl would love it ..

[hollow crane]

is that this is a dead game

[raven frost]

Im sure

[hollow crane]

and its just ironic

[raven frost]

And i dont want them to not love it

But I dont

[hollow crane]

that this thread is where the most messages are being sent

[raven frost]

And other people here dont

[hollow crane]

so with that context

[raven frost]

And this is where we talked about why we didnt like it

[hollow crane]

its hard to care, even if the title of this post is 100% correct in every universe

i think its also that

this is an americapilled topic

and if u check the discords for every other region

no one even mentioned it

they said "shes cute!" and "omg new healer!"

and they bought the skin

[static mauve]

literally

[hollow crane]

and they played the game

[shrewd bronze]

something something puritans taking over america

[hollow crane]

so with that context

it doesnt matter

and it wont matter to the devs

because the 100 person NA server

[raven frost]

Im personally of the opinion that TC have 16 million other threads about all the issues with gameplay

[hollow crane]

vs the 2k player rest of the community

[shrewd bronze]

go join collective shout

whoever complains

[raven frost]

And also this isnt a feedback thread

Those dont exist

[hollow crane]

so its TRIPLE useless

[raven frost]

This is just a discussion thread

[hollow crane]

its just 9 americans arguing amongst themselves

never to be read by the devs

[raven frost]

Every single thread thats not a feedback thread is useless

[hollow crane]

and im not even like,

[static mauve]

sicne they removed the #feedback this channel is also for feedback

[hollow crane]

on a side of the actual argument

[raven frost]

People just like talking about shit that interests them

[hollow crane]

im just saying "this is why people dont/wont/cant care"

[static mauve]

im pretty sure some dev said we should post our feedback here

[raven frost]

I mean i understand that

[static mauve]

if we rlly need

[raven frost]

I just dont think Its a real issue

[hollow crane]

and for what its worth

[raven frost]

Let ppl talk about shit that interests them

[hollow crane]

if sv is popular in asia, and they like it/didnt care at all

sv should probably just go with it

[static mauve]

i wouldnt mind

[hollow crane]

and do what works in the parts of the world where people give a shit about the game

[static mauve]

BUT

mistersixtyfour is reviving this shit

every single day

[raven frost]

Everywhere is for feedback

They said they are reworking how they take it

[hollow crane]

u know this isnt true

[raven frost]

Hey man

Thats what TC said

Idfk how they r taking it anymore

[static mauve]

i think they said to post feedback here

[hollow crane]

yeah and they also said they were makin a good game

[raven frost]

Idc tbh

I gave my feedback in beta

Whatever happens now is whatever yknow

[hollow crane]

the english discord feedback is usually really bad thats all im sayin

and i dont think they should listen to it

[raven frost]

They said to post it wherever

[hollow crane]

they should listen to the regions that play the game

[raven frost]

All they said is that they are working on taking it from multiple sources

[hollow crane]

i got somethin they can take from my one source

[raven frost]

And thats all we know

[static mauve]

they just knew

they would get 1 million hate bcs of their stupid decisions

like armory system

thats why thy remvoed

[raven frost]

Happened anyway

[raven frost]

Bro let him

How does him talking and starting a discussion affect u

[hollow crane]

after a day or two he ragequits the discord

easy target

he wont be left alone

[static mauve]

i want the devs to see usefull threads

not this shit

[hollow crane]

not saying its cool or whatever im just sayin u know how the internet works

[static mauve]

even if theres 0.001 chance of them reading one

imagine they come and see this

as top post

[raven frost]

If they have a problem with it they will just remove it

They could remove it anytime

[hollow crane]

hahahahahaha

hahahahahaha

[static mauve]

its not about having a problem

is more like

[hollow crane]

yeah lets all ping the devs and have them mod threads on the lowest pop region discord

[static mauve]

they just come here to see about some real issue of the game

or something like that

[hollow crane]

theyre totally gonna do that

[static mauve]

but they read this

[raven frost]

I mean im just saying if they were in here and saw it and didn't like it they could have it removed

[static mauve]

they will think we dont care about the real issues

[raven frost]

Mods have spoken in here before

[hollow crane]

yeah that wouldnt make the 9 people mad about this issue even more mad/annoying

think optics

fr

[static mauve]

mods are incompetents

[hollow crane]

mods are silver

[static mauve]

they locked the safelocked post talking about the real issues

[raven frost]

I mean you could just tell us to shut up

[static mauve]

and not this shit

even tho 99% of the msg in this thread are off topic

and are only causing conflicts

[hollow crane]

again that would require effort

[raven frost]

Idk how well that would go tho you kinda need every player rn tbh!

[hollow crane]

barely any but

effort

[hollow crane]

tru

[raven frost]

Bc safelocked said their peace

They said they were working on all the stuff they were pinged on

They said they send over bug reports

And then they said they were going back to work

[static mauve]

it still a good thread to discuss about the game no?

[hollow crane]

was that the guy that wanted the devs to fight him in arena?

[raven frost]

Why keep it open for bad chatters to type

[static mauve]

there wasnt bad chatterw

only 2 ppl copy paste the same msg

and it wanst that bad of a msg

[raven frost]

The point of the thread was achieved

[raven frost]

You can do that anywhere bro

[hollow crane]

i think every sv champ from now on should be gay cannonically

[raven frost]

Supervive general does that

[static mauve]

but that thread had everytone + safelocked

ppl were reading everyone issues

[raven frost]

Did it have everyone

It had like 3 devs

Only 2 spoke

And all of them left after a bit

[static mauve]

and in the past safelocked threads were alwyas used as main thread

to discuss about the game

[dry forge]

I'm sorry but there ain't no way hudson doesn't have a wife

[heavy magnet]

Threads like these are the reason I don’t expect everyone to be acting in good faith.

[hollow crane]

boywife

[raven frost]

I mean they obv want to move away from that

[static mauve]

😂

[raven frost]

With all the things they have done in this disc since launch

All im saying is that this thread is harmless

If its true the devs dont care then there's no reason to brigade it

[static mauve]

its not about that

[raven frost]

Its fine to disagree dont get me wrong

[static mauve]

imaigne i create a thread about wantig every char to be a frog

[raven frost]

But trolls come in here to derail and thats just weirdo shit

[static mauve]

and some otehr dude createsd the same but wants the chars to be lions

[raven frost]

You are entitled to your own opinions

[static mauve]

...

[raven frost]

If your thread gets traction

Then it gets traction

The threads are for people to talk in them bro

These are not feedback threads

[static mauve]

yes but ppl need to think

for a bit

and use common sense

in their threads

[raven frost]

But like we have

You can see in this thread people have had serious debate about this topic

Even the premise of this thread is not even universally agreed on

[static mauve]

cause its so stupid

this thread

[raven frost]

Its not like we are Puritans

We are just talking about the characters in a game we like

[hollow crane]

ngl im pretty sure this thread is bait at this point

[static mauve]

yea i agree

[raven frost]

Ill go on record i thought the original thread premise was bait

Saw triangles on my screen and thought this was a elaborate troll

[hollow crane]

it was the furry karate argument that did it for me

[static mauve]

but i mean some ppl here are rlly srs about the main topic

look CoarseHairPete old msg

hes been talking about this since 2024

[hollow crane]

thats how u know its good bait

[raven frost]

But clearly people r talking about this thread

[raven frost]

Yeah bc its jntresting to talk about

Character design is fun

[static mauve]

no

[heavy magnet]

I would just block them instead of interacting. They’re just doing this to distract people.

[raven frost]

I dont see why people need to come in here with the bullshit

[static mauve]

its not character rdesign

[hollow crane]

hyahaha

see

its bait

[static mauve]

they have a issue

[hollow crane]

"distracting people"

hahahaha

[static mauve]

w females design in thsi game

[raven frost]

At least its civil

[hollow crane]

u musta missed when mistersixtyfour crashed out

and told all naysayers to kts

[static mauve]

hahahaha

[raven frost]

No i was there

[hollow crane]

so youre just lying

hahaha

[raven frost]

I meant right now its civil

Not like as a whole

[hollow crane]

lmfao

bro

[raven frost]

Conversations about mercury bust get serious son.

Be prepared to die bout it

[raven frost]

Yeah rhats a facet of character design

I mean i share their issues i think TC can do better

Im bored just looking at them

Isn't crysta legit part crystal whys her skin clear bro she should have fucking rose quarts coming out her shoulder or something idk

[dry forge]

He basically used "their body types are all similar" as a reason they were bad design originally. When for like 90% of them their body type isn't even the main focus. Look at crysta and tell me your supposed to focus on her body and not the 2 big floating blasters.
I would say the same for mercury but nah she has a big cut out for some reason. It just had to be about boobs :(

[raven frost]

Yeah no that was pretty bad

[dry forge]

It's fine to have this conversation but the body type thing jist seems so stupid to me

[heavy magnet]

If you’re supposed to focus on them, why not build them into the design and build her body around that?

[hexed edge]

what.... how...

[raven frost]

I dont see how you can apply this logic to the characters in supervive icl

Like use shrike and an example and explain that to me

[dry forge]

...wha

[static mauve]

😂 😂

[mossy escarp]

Crysta's design is generally pretty good. She's got a strong and unique silhouette and her clothing/tech defines her really well. The part that bugs me is that instead of ahowing us the cool crystals growing out of her they hid them away under skintight gloves... Why?

[raven frost]

Those dont look like they are growing out of her icl

[mossy escarp]

I just think Crysta would have been a lot more visually interesting if they disn't feel the need to give her pale clear skin and lean into the elemental growths. Even just a bit crawling out from the edge of the gloves or aesthetically placed on her arms would have been a big step up imo

Sorry was typing that before the reply gimme a sec

[raven frost]

They look like accessories

[heavy magnet]

Well, how about a Lady Gaga dress of crystals?

[mossy escarp]

It feels like a cop-out to have made the intentional decision that it grows out of her skin, gloves channeling them and all, and then not have any on her skin besides some barely visible pieces on her face

It's my only actual critique about her design

[raven frost]

That dosent really give her a this comes out of me thing

[mossy escarp]

The pants and blasters are great

[raven frost]

Thats more of a i like crystals thing

[heavy magnet]

Crystal hands, then.

They can turn into blasters when she wants them to.,

[raven frost]

Unironically would be down for that

But then she loses the blasters

I like the blasters

[mossy escarp]

Yeah I would miss the blasters

Does her m1 come out of the blasters?

[static mauve]

he wants some power rangers type shit

[hollow crane]

EVEN if the crystals were growing out of her i thought crysta was literally made out of crystals or whatever

lore wise

[static mauve]

https://tenor.com/view/macflea-pink-ranger-yellow-power-gif-18263622

[hollow crane]

u r literally obsessed with crystal hands why

[static mauve]

cause thats what they have in this type of things

[hollow crane]

nvm this i re-read

and read wrong the first time

[mossy escarp]

I'm confused about where the power rangers are coming into this

[static mauve]

his tag

[mossy escarp]

Yeah I'm still lost lol

[hollow crane]

same

oh i see

[static mauve]

that server is about the type of series like power rangers

[hollow crane]

its literally about childrens shows like powerangers

thats funny

not related but funny

learn a new thing everyday

[mossy escarp]

From wiki

Can confirm I am a fan of Tokusatsu

[hollow crane]

i like godzilla

gojira

[raven frost]

Ok but a sentai character in this game would fuck

[mossy escarp]

Real

[hollow crane]

ppl playin this game would fuck

[static mauve]

carbine

[raven frost]

No

[mossy escarp]

Idk he's not much of a Sentai type character

[heavy magnet]

I immediately thought of a stance character cranked up to 11, with 5+ different stances.

[mossy escarp]

Pretty far from it

[static mauve]

ahahhah ik

[heavy magnet]

Like a late-Heisei Kamen Rider.

[raven frost]

Hes more Kamen rider

Yeah

[mossy escarp]

Gimme mumen rider

https://tenor.com/view/axprov-bikerx-anime-thumbs-up-gif-17941320

[hollow crane]

give me people of my own caliber in my lobbies

[heavy magnet]

Well, that was certainly a discussion.

[hollow crane]

not really

nothing was accomplished and no opinions were changed

[heavy magnet]

I hope the next Hunter does better than Tetra or Mercury did, but I have Deadlock if they aren’t.

[hollow crane]

dookielock

[mossy escarp]

Discussions don't have to accomplish anything tbf

People just have to discuss

And that certainly happened

Debates on the other hand generally infer outcomes as a goal

In some form or another

[heavy magnet]

Discord should really let you lock specific people out of a thread you created for situations like this.

[mossy escarp]

Ehh. I could see that just being abused to remove differing opinions from discussion. Definitely something only a mod team should have access to

[hollow crane]

😿 👶

[static mauve]

😂 😂 😂 😂 😂

[mossy escarp]

The internet needs less echo-chambers imo not more.

[hollow crane]

this could have been a thread JUST for people who want furry characters

[mossy escarp]

At the end of the day even people coming in here to intentionally disrupt shows TC that there is an audience that would not enjoy anything more diverse than what we have. Whether that's valuable data to them or not is up to them to decide.

[heavy magnet]

I don’t know, I think it’s pretty clear who they should be supporting.

And it’s not the kind of people who dig up random profile info as an insult.

[dry forge]

I think they just do not care. Rather than they wouldn't enjoy it

[hollow crane]

i dont think they care

[mossy escarp]

Thinking in absolutes about what kind of people should be supported is a little misguided I feel. There's a middleground to every issue that people believe is black and white and that's where the people working on these things tend to need to operate out of necessity.

[hollow crane]

1. random info? its in ur username
2. u admit u dont even play this game so i dont think they should listen to u
3. u told anyone who disagreed to kts

number 2 should completely disqualify you from having an opinion imo

i never played halflife but i think the main character should have been different. a woman. but one that isnt sexualized

i still wouldnt play it but

thats my opinion

[heavy magnet]

I don’t think there’s any middle ground to be had with bad faith trolls and other people who just want to keep the same designs we’ve had.

It feels dumb to expect people like that to play by the same rules and standards.

[mossy escarp]

I'm not expecting anyone to play by any set of rules

I've been skirting around saying this because of the hilariously bad optics it will bring

But dude

Just be the better person

If someone is ribbing you and not getting under your skin it makes them uncomfortable

Firing back does nothing but escalate

Make people feel uncomfortable enough and just defeated enough to question for even a second if what they're doing is fine or working

[hollow crane]

or, hear me out, self reflect and try to figure out why theyre doing it. if it hurts so bad

and maybe adjust your strategy

[mossy escarp]

Like dude insult slinging is obviously giving intentional trolls EXACTLY what they want. You've been playing into their hand each and every time

Give them nothing to work from

And watch their attacks crumble

[stiff kestrel]

Guys give me booba and I swipe is there anything else to talk about?

How is this thread still active

[mossy escarp]

Bc people don't know when to quit (me it's me I'm people)

[heavy magnet]

Weirdly enough, blocking people who do that seems to be working.

[stiff kestrel]

This isn’t even a story based game it’s anime characters fighting other anime characters

[static mauve]

u sure? 😈

[mossy escarp]

Yeah dude. If you don't want to deal with someone the block button is a good solution

[hollow crane]

no it doesnt lmao u unblocked people to read that they saw ur powerrangers tag

[mossy escarp]

You don't owe anyone your time but yourself and if people are making you mad or uncomfortable you have no reason to force yourself to be in a situation where they're present

Realistically me diving into this convo each and every time is going completely against my own advice

But I consciously make that choice bc I know I can vibe afterward

[mossy escarp]

The block button on discord is mega fake. They still see what you tyoe and their message show up as big ugly "BLOCKED MESSAGE" blocks in the chat

Actually omega fake button

And modders have had it working properly (minus people not seeing your stuff) for YEARS

Sidetrack: I hate discord. Has to be one of worst run companies I have ever seen stumble their way into success

How in the world has this awful UI change not been reverted yet? It still makes my eyes bleed every time I use it

[hollow crane]

idk its like saying roblox ui is bad

like, yeah obviously its dogshit

[mossy escarp]

Also bugs that have been in the program since (I kid you not) RELEASE

[hollow crane]

but it doesnt matter because 9 year old are still gonna use it

and they dont care ab ui

😛

[mossy escarp]

It's also a sunken cost thing for people. No one is gonna leave discord bc all of their communities are here. The friction that using a new platform has is too great

Discord would need to REALLY shit the bed to make people leave

I wish people were using teamspeak

They even got better ui recently :(((

Their audio quality has always been better tho no skirting around that

Okay weird rant over lmao

[white kestrel]

i love how we can go a good while of peaceful discussion then some rando comes in here and completely crashes out acting like this singular thread killed their family 😭

[mossy escarp]

But this thread DID kill my family

[hollow crane]

[untold fox]

Honestly, I'm just waiting to see what death lass looks like and compared to what role and function.

Until then I just pop up to talk about design and interrogate the philosophy of people claiming they don't care or it doesn't matter, all while they're really caring and acting like it matters.

[mossy escarp]

Interrogate my philosophy pls

I wanna learn more about myself through other people's questions (the only way I can)

Actually my two favourite games of all time are Fallout: New Vegas and Deus Ex: Human Revolution. I think that says all that needs to be said

[untold fox]

I mean there's a meme in there between the two

[mossy escarp]

Wait is there?

This has inspired me to make a personal tier list of games so I am learning spreadsheet software for it now

[white kestrel]

[mossy escarp]

Good God

What even

[hollow crane]

ah man i thought this was new supervive champ

was gonna be so excited

[heavy magnet]

This is what SUPERVIVE will look like in 2035:

[hollow crane]

god i hope so bruh

[white kestrel]

|| if it even makes it that far oop ||

[hollow crane]

its pretty good character design u gotta admit

better than mercury

shes like a demon bishop

[white kestrel]

nah Eva ended her

[hollow crane]

i would play her

[white kestrel]

trust me i know

[hollow crane]

no u dont

[untold fox]

Among whatever else, she straight up just has joule's silhouette.

[hollow crane]

Nah jule dont have thighs like that

[untold fox]

I'm sure measuring the thigh width on a zoomed out top down perspective game will be an easy read

[raven frost]

Not a high bar

[hollow crane]

they wider than her shoulders

[untold fox]

Not including her jacket's shoulders, so nah

[white kestrel]

oop

[zinc pewter]

can we have a new character that's super soft like foccacia dough

because i wanna just sink into that flufffy goodness

[static fable]

wholesome

[hollow crane]

not if u know why hes asking

[heavy magnet]

I see Nuts is intentionally missing the point again.

I was thinking something like Viscous from Deadlock, or any sort of slime/goo based character.

[hollow crane]

no u r missing the point

[mossy escarp]

nuts is being a silly goose

honk

[rotund crystal]

nuts is actin... frickin nuts...

🥁

[mossy escarp]

https://tenor.com/view/monsters-inc-monsters-inc-movie-movie-monsters-inc-boo-boo-monsters-inc-gif-17285126255926631867

[heavy magnet]

I'm not sure where to put this, but I think Theorycraft could easily make an armored female Hunter like Kushana.

[hollow crane]

aight fine ill say it

i like this a lot

[rotund crystal]

needs a bikini skin in shop then ill play

[raven frost]

But then where do the boobs go

[hollow crane]

theyre still there and ull be able to see them in the bikini skin

[heavy magnet]

Under some sensible clothes.

[desert helm]

I think we should put a Wizard in the game tbh

I seen a bunch of people talking about making a wizard, that’s been my favorite idea so far in this chat.

[heavy magnet]

Something Bandora-like would be a nice change of pace.

[untold fox]

Again, Void Not counting as a wizard when he's very clearly their spin on that archetype is wild. Just because he's not in medieval robes - hell, he even got the hat and more conventional beard as a skin.

[heavy magnet]

I also want to bump @indigo verge’s comparison photos of the main cast to emphasize the importance of more diverse female characters.
(male characters are first, female characters are second)

[mossy escarp]

It's more about how strong the outline of the female body is vs how comparitively soft the edge is around the male body one. I think it's actually quite telling. The more solid the white is the more overlap it has with other layers. A denser white shows more similarities per layer than a non-dense white.

The male one still has plentiful visible distinctions between the shapes of each layer throughout, while the female one has a core that is almost entirely the same shade, showing an overlap on almost every layer.

Worth noting that this was done before Mercury (iirc)

[heavy magnet]

Even if she was, you would still have that solid white core in the middle.

When you compare that to the shaggy white core the male cast has, it’s pretty clear why there needs to be a more unique female Hunter.

[rotund crystal]

he doesnt fit the mage fantasy that well

no character really does

i mained void a lot at first bc he was closest to a mage but there really isnt a character that feels like a true mage. i am making one in my head maybe ill share w devs in that character making event thing if i am not lazy but no character rn is a good feeling mage

[untold fox]

How is he not a mage.

[heavy magnet]

Don't you know? Wizards don't wear pants.

Also, I've mentioned this before, but I think the new female Hunter being a fusion of Void and Maleficent would be really nice.

(image uploaded to hopefully not be small)

[rotund crystal]

his gameplay loop

im not talking abt outfits i dont pick characters bc they have giant boobs or not lol

[untold fox]

If we get any of the nine (more of the nine? - void's relationship to the risen empire is unclear), your sort of maleficent/Moira axis would fit, though likely with some cyberpunk injection given the risen empire's deal.

[untold fox]

Previous people talking about wizards were mostly talking about visuals, so sorry for mixing that up. So how is he not fitting a mage gameplay loop?

[heavy magnet]

I'd say dialing back on the Moira styled cyberpunk would suit the science fantasy look Supervive goes for.

(OW2 design, as well)

[rotund crystal]

he just plays like a lot of other champs that dont have any actual mage fantasy plays. like for example ur combo is stun then ult then E. its basically same thing for KP u grab then stun then shoot. just all feels too similar and doesnt have any actual "spells" to play around

and its made worse bc u can disrespect his spells a lot of the time. like normally mage AOE ice storm would hold an area down and ppl goign thru it are at risk, rn voids E starts so tiny that u can literally just walk around it lol

[untold fox]

Meant cyberpunk injection v. Maleficent.

[heavy magnet]

Oh, I see.

[untold fox]

idk, having a similar sequence of abilities to a nonmage doesn't feel like a disqualifier - the fact a lot of his abilities require positioning or timing, his empowerment passive, the fact like 3 of his abilities are circular aoes, the sigil on the ground of his tp, the fact his lmb pierces physical matter, all that feels pretty 'spell like' to me.

But your standards are clearly different. What counts as magey, then?

[rotund crystal]

actual aoe abilties or skillshots. u dont ever use his aoe abilities as zoning against good players bc the moment u do they avoid it and punish u for no cds.

hes a combo champ

and i am pretty sure every single character in this game has abilities that "require positioning or timing" that isnt a mage only thing lol.

[untold fox]

it's not, but his particular emphasis on wind up and projected aoes feels more ritualistic than standard

[rotund crystal]

mages usually feel like they have multiple spells to play with this guy has 1 single ability he relies on which is his rmb

yea he feels like a gimped watered down and changed mage.

i said he doesnt feel like a true mage for ppl that like mages. he just has like the most basic wannabe mage abilities and after some gameplay it just becomes clear his playstyle isnt mage playstyle its TOD comboing and then hiding behind a wall to poke

he just feels lame if u are expecting an actual mage.

[untold fox]

I feel we may be drifting towards a vulture talking about hudson style conversation. What would feel like an actual mage then?

you said skill shots and aoe, but the line between what counts and doesn't feels fuzzy

[rotund crystal]

not relying on just poking with lmb til u can rmb someone then blow all ur cds. more cds that are spells to use in combat that can combo off each other with diff unique feeling. he has 1 ability which is his bomb for doing dmg, and he needs to stun to get it off. a mage would feel like they have multiple options, bigger aoes to control an area instead of the tiny bomb he has (his ult doesnt count cuz its too long to use mid combat as an actual zoning ability ppl just say its zoning cuz they missed it lol)

like casting an actual large aoe to zone would be nice. having a cool skillshot to combo into that afterwards while theyre slowed in the aoe or have to run a big distance to get around it stuff like that

then swap to a longer to cast spell that does big impact. u dont ever see anyone casting void ult for impact, u see them casting it when its guaranteed. so the cast time on it doesnt feel like its a mage cast time, it feels like u are just landing rmb then doing the combo thats guaranteed. a mage would be casting a big meteor in the backline not because they already stunned someone, but because that meteor while in battle can have big impact itself without requring a guaranteed hit

its almost like his abilites should be swapped w how they work. his rmb should be high dmg, his bomb should be low dmg but larger aoe and has a gravity pull to it etc.

that would feel way more mage style gameplay than hitting 1 stun then doing a combo every fight

[untold fox]

Idk, not sure I'm seeing how it disqualifies him as mage, just not as free flowing or rounded in his power budget. As far as meteors go and aoe, we did just get mercury, who is also magey in her affect, even if it's clearly justified in lore as chemicals.

[rotund crystal]

i never said it completely disqualifies him. i said this game has no good feeling true mage style gameplay. hes a really weak mage, and not talking abt strength in game, talking abt design for a mage. just weak and limp feeling if u wanted to play a game and be a mage playing void wouldnt feel that good.

[heavy magnet]

For me, Void is a mage/wizard in design alone.

[rotund crystal]

and mercury is a support so i dont rly like her as a mage i like pure offense mage

plus mercury is just stupid her ult is a joke lol

[untold fox]

Could you point to a game where you have a magey feeling mage that feels, uh, strong and un-limp, then? Just for comparison?

[rotund crystal]

new world mage if u ever played that felt great

every mage weapon in that game felt good. fire staff, ice gauntlet, void gauntlet. u can equip 2 weapons so u would rotate between spells that combo well and have impact in big fights

also in single player games dragons dogma mage was sick af lol

[untold fox]

any in mobas or hero shooters you would point to, since that more limited ability pallette would be more applicable?

[heavy magnet]

Checkmate.

[rotund crystal]

not sure i dont play a lot of mobas or hero shooters

and them labeling him a mage doesnt mean he is actually a mage lol

if u think so then u think ghost is a mage too

[paper ridge]

I think void does come off as a spin on a mage archetype visually, but i think kura is right in him not really feeling like a traditional mage gameplay-wise
Mages are typically very much squishy backliners with lots of damage and some utility, they are traditionally characters with lots of diferent tools, which is obviously hard to express in a moba setting where the number of abilities you have is limited
Void is not a backliner, his effective range is definitely well below average among the cast and he has high focus on utility with his stuns and teleport as opposed to damage.

For a character kit that is mage-like in a moba i would say Hwei from League of Legends, even though he is not portrayed as a mage visually the gameplay is there imo

[untold fox]

Hwei is like a mini invoker where they actively strain the system to give him more tools though, yeah?

[paper ridge]

Yeah, as i said having lots of different spells is a part of what a traditional mage is imo, so it's tricky to do in a moba neatly.

[untold fox]

right, tricky to design, tricky to balance.

[rotund crystal]

i dont think its that tricky to do when we consider some of the champs ignoring the limited skills. brall and beebo both have more skills than everyone else bc of how their rmb works.

the mage im trying to make a kit for in my head would have a similar mechanic. element swapping tho then the other abilities work different. instead of rmb being a dmg skill shot for example, swap element and it becomes an aoe field.

then the passive would be based on having diff elements applied or something idk. havent fully fleshed it out yet but thats my idea im gna work on when im not playin shape of dreams lol

[heavy magnet]

Ok, so I just checked out Void, and he's absolutely a mage in design.

I would have never expected the person who thought Brall and Oath looked basic to have bad takes.

[zinc pewter]

Fr man women have long torsos too and short legs 😭

[rotund crystal]

u literally do not play the champ?

im sure u do not qualify as a person who decides if a character is a mage or not when u dont play them lmfao.

and again because u guys apparently cant read? i never said he is 0% mage. im saying he doesnt fit the mage fantasy.

he can be classified as a mage by the devs, so was ghost, so the classification clearly doesnt mean anything. but his actual mage gameplay loop is very far from a good mage design. gamer potato had a good break down too.

[hollow crane]

he doesnt play supervive

and is vocal about it

hasnt played since months before 1.0 haha

[rotund crystal]

dude is just a giga troll obsessed with naked goat ladies and karate rats i guess.

just goes on discord babyrages abt design then tells ppl to kill themselves. comes back and starts arguing about stuff he has no clue on lmao.

classic

[hollow crane]

go look at the "whats next for supervive" thread

[rotund crystal]

hell nah the less i see of this guy talking the better

makes me lose braincells

[hollow crane]

ik ur gonna go look

[rotund crystal]

if i wasnt playin shape of dreams id prob look yea but new game fun dont wanna start lookin at random threads

[hollow crane]

ik ur gonna look

[topaz hawk]

if we are talking shape of dreams

thats a game that has some wizardly stuff goin on

huge amount of wizard representation

[raven frost]

What makes void not a wizard

Like what's the difference between warlock and wizard

Is it like dnd rules

[uneven robin]

You can’t get something more wizardy than Void

[topaz hawk]

precisely my dear wattson. void is a warlock and not a wizard and he doesnt feel like a wizard.

[untold fox]

it seems to be literally that his magic is too spooky and his beard is too trimmed. That's... kinda the extent of the vibes quibble

[rotund crystal]

he is way closer to a warlock than a wizard so saying u cant get more wizardy than void is definitely a take lol.

[broken wharf]

He seems more like a mage to me

[rotund crystal]

yea anything other than a wizard for him lol

sorc mage warlock all suit him more than wizard does

[untold fox]

This is like saying brall is more of a warrior than a swordsman or something. It's nitpicking the vibes between synonyms, and all that results in doing is a no true Scotsman to anything other than the most conventional, uncreative vision of an archetype.

It's just silly. Oh no, he has ornamental horns rather than a floppy hat and his magic is space themed rather than just skimming the greatest hits from the d and d spell list.

Like it's one thing to say there's a feel to the archetype and his play doesn't match the feel. It's another to start defining archetypes so narrowly we don't allow a property to do any deviation or interpretation.

[rotund crystal]

some of the goobers in here describe female body archetype as slider increase and u think its nitpicking for actual classes lol.

some of those are pretty different. a wizard and warlock for example are pretty different in lore, and also should be a bit different in gameplay bc of the lore lol

and having a single one of these characters try and fit every single archetype, and do a shitty job for the ppl that enjoy those archetypes, isnt good

[untold fox]

He's an ancient sage who has access to grand magical power and arcane wisdom, expressing powerful magic beyond mortal ken, wearing fine clothes with ornate accents that speak to both his arcane affectations and prestigious position. He has a flowing beard and everything. Argue if you want on playstyle, but visually and character wise he's immensely wizardly, just with supervive's flair for more modern clothes. And just because he's a mildly spooky wizard doesn't make him outside that archetype.

[raven frost]

In supervive lore or fantasy lore?

Because in fantasy what a warlock or wizard is depends on the universe it inhabits

[rotund crystal]

in general. u wouldnt really classify a wizard and a warlock as the same thing in a universe. warlocks are more witchlike and wizards are usually studying magic, u can have them vary in different universes, but in general they wont be the same thing. u can even have a warlock that studied wizardry too but that still implies there is a difference in them lol

[untold fox]

Seems we're taking these distinctions for granted and not really justifying how void is a warlock and not a wizard. He's spooky and his crest looks like horns. Thats all we seem to offer.

We're also talking witchlike as though that's a static definition, and not something that fluctuates from being the female equivalent of either tropes (or both when they're synonymous) or its own thing.

And like, supervive draws from a variety of mage tropes, sure. But like we have an obvious warlock - Eva. She's got a pact, extensive infernal imagery, summons. And the character who does fit the notion of magic as an arcane knowledge system and protosciemce allegory exists too - Mercury. You know, the one called a witch. So clearly it's building its own lexicon and not just following DND or wow or whatever other system we're trying to map onto this.

Like we're approaching this like the terms are constant and well defined, rather than synonymous terms with mildly different vibes who get used to talk about different things in different properties. The definitions are porous and definitely not taxonomic.

And again, void is not a warlock just because he's mildly menacing. If we're trying to claim some consistent and meaningful distinction, it can't just be "well his magic is purple and he's scary, so warlock"

[rotund crystal]

witchlike is a very static definition, something that is like a witch lol.

we arent talking about how he is a wizard over a warlock either, just stating the look and idea of the character fits as a warlock more than a wizard.

his magic has giant menacing hands that come together to crush people and a bomb that grows in size to explode on them, these all feel like something a warlock could have, not a wizard who studied magic.

[raven frost]

I dont rly understand the distinction between those two things

Warlocks are more witchlike? While wizards study magic? How are those 2 things different

Does a witch not study magiv

Why are two menacing hands that crush people warlock like and not wizard like

Is it because it looks "menacing"

My take is that these words dont mean anything personally

[heavy magnet]

I just think that Void counts as a mage due to his design an abilities.

The warp, his secondary ability, and his ult all seem like stuff a mage would use.

[rotund crystal]

witches tend to get their power from evil pacts. think of dark magic u get from making g a deal w the devil or a n evil force in the story for whatever game or movie u are in. wizards tend to study magic not make a deal to get magic. this leads to one having more evil or dark roots and one having more knowledge and work put in to learn their magic, and that magic being more honest and normal spells. instead of giant hands that crush someone in place u would see a fireball for example lol.

the two words definitely mean something. they are distinctive words. if u don’t get the difference it doesn’t mean the words just lose their difference lol.

[raven frost]

Witches getting their power from evil pacts is considered a Christian invention used for enemies of the catholic church

The most common definition for witches is just women who do harmful magic

So where is this witches tend to get their power from evil pacts from

It seems to have no basis in history

Where is this wizards tend to study magic not make a deal to get magic come from

It seems like this is a very roundabout way to say that fenrir is right and these words only have meanings in the universe they come from

Like what is this wizard magic is more honest and normal spells

What defines a normal spell

[heavy magnet]

Visual design seems to be what defines these kinds of characters, and I think Void fits into the mold of a wizard.

But this is kura we’re talking to, and they don’t seem to understand good visual design.

[rotund crystal]

yes they have meanings in their universe, and those meanings usually follow what i said lol.

normal spells is pretty straightforward if i really need to describe it (after i already described it) i dont think u are following a conversation u are just trying to argue and trying to win for some reason lol. especially after saying some weird shit like saying its a roundabout way of saying fenrir is right, when i am literally not saying that.