The female character are not just oversexualised, they are straight up poorly designed

[untold fox]

Knife dog

[raven frost]

I dont count darkin as monsters

[static fable]

next character is a female one, with a scythe

[raven frost]

She's just a puppy

[worldly snow]

Atractive or edge lord 90% of the time its just the truth

[vocal crest]

Saw this post in the subreddit this morning. Think it sort of captures the concept pretty well!

https://www.reddit.com/r/supervive/comments/1mv9anc/whats_with_the_new_goonerbait/

[static fable]

We had a very old character concept called death knight

[static fable]

i have a feeling this might be the re-exploration of that

[hot slate]

Do they have short hair?

[raven frost]

Thats just not the truth

[static fable]

idk xD

probably a helmet

[raven frost]

Unless you find belveth and stuff attractive

Hey man you do you

[hot slate]

Damn it

[raven frost]

I dont kink shame

[static fable]

Also

we can be pretty certain they can kill/pull/etc wisps

[worldly snow]

just a little sample from 2019 to 2023

I don't see some fat ugly man/women for over 4 years in a row

[static fable]

because safelocked leaked that a reaper-like character that could do that was coming very soon in the custom hunter showcase

[untold fox]

The last vamp helmet

[worldly snow]

Its atractive or mega edge lord

[static fable]

Sure but they're different

Like lillia is attractive outside of being a fucking deer xD

[raven frost]

In this list you see belveth Renata vex lillia

[static fable]

^

[serene jungle]

I think even in terms of attraction operating under idea «if character X isn't attractive to me, then it isn't attractive to anyone» is wrong; i'd be more attracted to female kingpin than new character, personally.

[static fable]

Even more 'normal' female characters

[untold fox]

There's a goth muppet on that list

[raven frost]

In a more recent list there's millio naafiri hwei ambessa

[static fable]

Samira (strong)

gwen (puppet)

[worldly snow]

Lillia is attractive for MANY players bro 😭 unfortunalty

[static fable]

like

[raven frost]

The idea thay league makes goonerbait is wrong

[static fable]

Yes but that's fine!

She's still different and interesting

it's not about 'character can't be attractive'

[raven frost]

Lillia is attractive sure but not because shes running around the forest with cleavage out

[static fable]

its just "can we have something like.. slightly different?'

[hot slate]

Omega edge lord female?

[raven frost]

You can be attractive i dont care

[hot slate]

Honestly probably both…

[raven frost]

Just dont be lazy with it

[static fable]

Lillia is attactive because she's cute/innocent

[hot slate]

….

No bro… no…

https://tenor.com/view/взгляд-2000-ярдов-война-war-soldier-gif-3632617944134077161

[static fable]

okay so give her voicelines to a normal human and the voicelines aren't cute? xP

[worldly snow]

Lillia is attractive because some players want to fck deers. But anyway she is not fat or ugly thats the point nobody wants that

[raven frost]

I mean what do we mean when we say ugly

[hot slate]

Truth!

[worldly snow]

I mean even vex isn't a cute yordle but a cringe edge lord

[vocal crest]

Also- Just because someone does something doesn't mean it is the best course of action, especially when competing for players. Do you REALLY think that if TC makes the most conventionally attractive characters possible they are going to pull players from league of legends?

[raven frost]

If we mean not conventionally attractive league has plenty of champions with large playerbases that arent conventionally attractive

[untold fox]

Also, weird you cut it off before the wholesome fire child and the knife dog.

[vocal crest]

For example, can we examine the dota 2 characters?

[hot slate]

The whole character is just the stereotypical teenager

[raven frost]

I dont see this we dont want ugly argument

Nobody wants a disgusting champion everyone hates to look at

Just put some effort into your character designs

I dont see why everyone is against making characters that make sense

[hot slate]

Is this a fair point to settle on?

[worldly snow]

😏

I mean naafiri is pretty sick

I want to play naafiri

But I don't want to play KDA gragas

[raven frost]

Any askers?

Kda gragas is a April fools skin

[untold fox]

Wukong spotted

[tribal thorn]

counterpoint: ivy from deadlock

some people want to play as an ugly little critter

[raven frost]

Hey man she could get it

[shrewd tapir]

you can tell how insecure the OP is. "As a female player, I was excited to find a game without an abundance of sexualised female characters. I tried Marvel Rivals and honestly couldnt get past it" So sad, that it's laughable

[raven frost]

Challenge level impossible play marvel rivals as a fan of a female character without wanting to end your life

[tribal thorn]

i will say that a lot of these shapes in the OP completely ignore the actual silhouette of the character because apparel is just as important as the actual body when it comes to silhouette

[raven frost]

Let me tell you something brother the sexualization of the women in that game is insane

[shrewd tapir]

it just comes down to her own self-worth. There's none of it and she refuses to work on herself and instead complains about a problem which doesn't exist

[tribal thorn]

sexualization isnt bad but i also like when characters have more variety

[raven frost]

Ok now we are getting crazy

Its undeniable games like rivals sexualize their female characters

We dont need to lie

Go read the psylocke run they took their version from and go back to rivals

[shrewd tapir]

they're just hot. People love it. The majority enjoys it and it works. It's that simple

[raven frost]

Its like they gave her a lobotomy and a boob implant

[shrewd tapir]

why shouldn't they cater to the main audience? Business speaking, it's stupid

[raven frost]

I mean thats fair but uts also fair to say that you cant get past that

[untold fox]

Man, you think that women going into a space that like, historically treats them as supermodel eye candy to sell to nerds and going "I don't feel welcome or this is for me" and must mean she's insecure. Do you... Do think women being grossed out when their entire gender is objectified is like a skill issue?

[raven frost]

Because that is pretty fucking bad

If you dont read comics you wont fully understand how bad it is

Its disgustingly awful

[tribal thorn]

i feel like theres this strawman that theres a problem with sexy designs when thats almost never what people are saying in reality

[raven frost]

Got no problem with sexy but I like sexy done right

[tribal thorn]

it only becomes weird when thats the only kind of woman character in your game

[raven frost]

Like to keep using rivals as an example

[indigo verge]

it's hilarious that people immediately think "diverse female designs" equals "fat/ugly"

do some self reflection bro

[raven frost]

Emma frost is sexy done right in almost every version

But just making the woman eye candy for the sake of it is what I think people have an issue with

[vocal crest]

Kinda feels pretty disrespectful to dismiss someone's viewpoint because you find them to be insecure.. For example, even though this statement reflects very poorly on your character I don't think it makes you wrong. Just a jerk

[shrewd tapir]

I know that I'm a jerk. I'm just pretty direct

[indigo verge]

even most male people i know who play marvel rivals find the goonerbait over the top and unnecessary, and only play for the gameplay / because they like marvel

[tribal thorn]

also the main problem i actually have with the mercury design is just that the top looks stupid

[raven frost]

^^^^

[tribal thorn]

like thats just not how boobs work??

[indigo verge]

this 'the majority enjoys it' is a statement you just assume is true. it's based on nothing

[raven frost]

She's not even sexy anymore im just confused

[vocal crest]

Hey, as long as you are aware! I'm a fan of TC's balance theory applied to life. Let someone have their bullshit.

[indigo verge]

the people it's catering to have not seen boobs in real life so they can get away with it

[static fable]

yep..

[shrewd tapir]

yeah the people you know around your circle, which is an echochamber

[static fable]

I mean like i'm sure you can technically make it look like that but

you're just using even more ffort then

[shrewd tapir]

It's really difficult for me to take you seriously

[indigo verge]

my echo chamber being... some normies across a wide range on the political spectrum who have very little in common

[raven frost]

When I played rivals I did not enjoy the goonerbait either

[tribal thorn]

her boobs look like evas, but shes literally not wearing anything to support them, meanwhile eva is wearing a succubus themed pushup bra lol

[static fable]

yea

like it makes sense

she has the support for it

[shrewd tapir]

ok

[raven frost]

Particularly when sue came out and I saw they gave her a whole buncha implants was where I started to fall off

[indigo verge]

i literally don't know of a single person who actually enjoys the rivals goonerbait. i've only ever seen people just joke about how shameless it is

[raven frost]

The game is good but lord have mercy

Darlene ain't have allat in the comics

[indigo verge]

i know a lot of people who are neutral toward it but that's the closest it gets from my experience

[raven frost]

And its like for me the characters are already so enjoyable

[shrewd tapir]

lmao

[tribal thorn]

something being overindulgent ends up just being weird instead of having actual sex appeal imo

[raven frost]

I dont see why we need goonerbait for them

[raven frost]

^^^

Sue was already hot whys she need more ass

Just makes me uncomfortable

[shrewd tapir]

who could've seen that coming

[raven frost]

Honestly I didnt

Bc it takes a lot to make me weirded out

[indigo verge]

hey man i think some self reflection would do you good

oversexualisation of women is weird, actually. you should maybe reflect on why it doesn't bother you whatsoever

[vocal crest]

Either way, if you aren't willing to listen to people who are explicitly stating they are not playing games due to the exact issues discussed it really feels that you might be the one in the echo chamber. 📽️

Not saying they are the majority, but at this point... Supervive could even use a minority of players...

[indigo verge]

i think your brain might be a bit rotted from overconsumption of online media

[shrewd tapir]

ah yes a nobody tells me to do self reflection

[indigo verge]

this response just proves it

[raven frost]

I was ok with psylocke and squirrel girl and fuckin uhhh black widow

[shrewd tapir]

the minority complains. Why should companies care. They just want to make money. It's not that difficult to understand

[raven frost]

But i kinda drew the line with sue

[indigo verge]

because they're clearly not making any fucking money lol

[shrewd tapir]

your discord profile tells me all I need to know about you

[indigo verge]

so maybe they should start listening to people more often

[raven frost]

The thread is kinda derailing to insults now

Where is mod guy

[shrewd tapir]

in supervive's case, they simply don't know what to do, direction wise

[indigo verge]

'they are doing this to make money' is such a funny argument that keeps coming back when supervive is, for all intents and purposes, a failed project that is not making money

[raven frost]

@static fable come mod guy can u moderate

[static fable]

I'm simply considering if I can ban directly

[vocal crest]

How are you certain they are the minority? What percentage of male gamers do you think are willing to switch game? What percentage of women gamers are willing to switch games? Where are you your market research information? Would be excited to see your data!

[indigo verge]

yes and they didn't know what to do character design wise either

[shrewd tapir]

ban me for what? There was someone who called me a shallow prick, you did nothing

[untold fox]

• 'the masses find it good when women are reduced to being only mass market hot'
• 'actually we, the masses, find that kinda weird and gross when done crassly without reason'
• 'shut up masses, I, one person, decide what you like'

[indigo verge]

i just told you you some self reflection would do you good

if you read that as me calling you a shallow prick i think it's proving the point

[raven frost]

Jean actually looked quite nice tbh

I liked what they did with her

Even though they gave her a goddamned bbl

Like they do for EVERYONE

For some reason

[static fable]

Dani your entire argument every discussion has been 'This person i do not agree with, they must be dumb/sheltered/in an echo chamber'

[shrewd tapir]

bro, I never said that YOU called me a shallow prick. I said someone called me that. Stop twisting my words so it fits your narritive

[raven frost]

Why dont they give blade a BBL

[static fable]

Either way it's repetetive behaviour and it's so far from constructive

[indigo verge]

why are you hung up on someone calling you shallow 15 hours ago

[shrewd tapir]

ironic

[high tapir]

Mods lock this thread, i cant anymore!

[raven frost]

J mean it was fine

Before this guy spawned

[indigo verge]

can we please stop asking for a lock on threads when there is just one person being disruptive

[shrewd tapir]

has nothing to do with hung up? wtf

[indigo verge]

just remove that one person

[raven frost]

Id rather they just remove the guy

[static fable]

Yea they're gone for 12h

[vocal crest]

It seems like you are making a lot of assumptions based on your perspective rather than considering market trends, alternative perspectives, or relying on data.

[static fable]

and if it happens again they're gone gone

c:

[high tapir]

you making me feel uncomfortable w this thread

[indigo verge]

if you lock a thread for one person being disruptive you are just letting them win

[static fable]

paqt shush or i ban you

[indigo verge]

how come

genuine question

[raven frost]

Then close the thread

This mercury character just gives me more appreciation for tetra

[static fable]

yep

[raven frost]

Man tetras design is so cool

[static fable]

I mean I didn't think anything bad about tetra at all

[raven frost]

I cant believe ppl thought it was lame

[static fable]

like genuinly i didn't

which shows why this is a problem xP

[indigo verge]

i just wish she didn't get the TC Female Design treatment

[raven frost]

I mean like what

No tetas

[indigo verge]

she's supposed to be buff and strong and still she has the exact same body shape as every other female character, just with muscles textured on

[vocal crest]

Anecdotal data is important, but pretty ineffective for making assumptions about a larger group.

[raven frost]

Is she?

[indigo verge]

i guarantee if she was a male character she would be huge

[raven frost]

Where was she supposed to be buff

[indigo verge]

she literally has muscles painted on all over her body

she is obviously meant to be a strong, muscular character

[raven frost]

I do not agree with that

She's supposed to be toned

I dont think she was supposed to be buff

More yunara less illaoi would be jow I describe it

[indigo verge]

buff doesn't automatically equal illaoi

[raven frost]

God I can only describe character design in league of legends terms im so fuckinf cooked...

[untold fox]

I think sure, she was meant to be toned. I just also think it's silly the most we get in female characters is toned so far.

[raven frost]

It dosent ur right im just trying to give an example to what I mean

[raven frost]

This is a take i can agree with

[indigo verge]

you do not build muscle while still being anorexic

it's just not how bodies work

[raven frost]

She is not anorexic

[indigo verge]

like she is obviously meant to look like she has muscles

[raven frost]

She is toned

[indigo verge]

you cannot look at these arms and tell me they weren't going for a muscley build

literally all i'm asking for at this point is just a waist that's not an hourglass figure

[raven frost]

They were going for more of an aesthetic tone than a muscley tone is my take

I agree she should've been a big ass tank

AND IM.STILL MAD ABOUT IT

But that wasnt what they were going for

[indigo verge]

well yeah thats the problem

[untold fox]

The answer is you contrast her young out of her depth and scrawny looking apprentice monk look by eventually making her mentor from the same order an absolutely jacked senior monk lady.

[indigo verge]

it's never what they're going for

[raven frost]

And on that we agree...

WHERE THE FUCK IS MY TANK

[indigo verge]

i don't think supervive is ever adding another tank

[raven frost]

I SWEAR IF FEM KAYN IS ANOTHER FUCKING FIGHTER

ILL LOSE IT

[fickle hill]

shes not really a tank tho?

[raven frost]

Yeah thats the problem

[indigo verge]

nope only oath

arguably kp

but i don't think they're ever adding another one because they dug themselves in too much of a hole with their combat feel

[raven frost]

Safelocked said overtime they plan to round out the classes

[untold fox]

Next lady is armored wielding a scythe. Odds are better than normal

[indigo verge]

combat is just kill enemy before they kill you

tanks do not work well in that landscape

[raven frost]

So i think a tank could be likely

I dont want a Reinhart or a braum

[indigo verge]

i mean yeah but TC says a lot

[raven frost]

I want a sett or a junkerqueen

[indigo verge]

especially if TC is just saying something is "planned" id take it with a gigantic grain of salt

[fickle hill]

is junkerqueen tanky tho? or are you saying more like the model

[raven frost]

Icl

[indigo verge]

junkerqueen is the build that tetra shouldve had tbh

[raven frost]

I havent played a second of junkerqueen

Shes just more popular than rammattra

So I used her as an example

[indigo verge]

nah rammatra is more popular right now

[raven frost]

Shit man cant kill her she has to be somewhat tanky

[indigo verge]

but that's mostly just cause of balance not because people like his design

[raven frost]

But like rammatta I guess is closer to what I want

A tank who can fight on their own but can also work well in a group is what I mean

Fits tc design philosophy better than like a reinhart

[indigo verge]

i just don't think any more tanks would fit in the game

because they kinda break the entire combat feel

90% of combat is throwing everything at your opponent and hoping they die before you do

a tank completely ruins that dynamic

[raven frost]

MORDEKAISER

thats a better example

[indigo verge]

plus it doesn't work with the intense, fast gamefeel they seem to be going for

for better or for worse

[raven frost]

God kill me now

My choices are a fox that dies if hes touched in the wrong way or a paladin

Anyways we r off topic

We were talking about how mercury has her boobs out while she handles dangerous chemicals

Very lame very uncool

[untold fox]

The window feels inexplicable on her. If it's meaningful, it's such a specific articulation on a character already articulating 5 different things. If it's not meaningful, it's taking time away from an already very busy character articulating 5 different vibes to show off underboob.

[static fable]

yes

[uneven robin]

maybe it's a combat issue then

[static fable]

also

to ppl who say

"you don't see it ingame"

i present to you:

[azure haven]

The more I see it the more I think it is tasteless

I don’t mind gooner shit but her design would just look better if it were covered imo

It’s so weird and out of place

[green cliff]

A tank completely ruins that dynamic because our tanks is both a DPS and a tank which invalidates them being a tank but more of a hybrid fighter. In short, they absolutely suck at being the representation of a tank

• Oath for example is an initiator that has a dunk and as well as decent sources of damage
• Kingpin can straight up one shot anyone and he has a dunk
• Hudson... I don't even know if this guy can be called a tank because he's not tanky and he's just bad right now

What I personally want is something like Bristleback from Dota 2 where his damage is so completely ass but all he can do is survive. There are other examples of good tank where you don't see them do that much damage from other games

Chogath/Rammus (League), Raum/Yagorath/Atlas (Paladins) etc.

the problem with Supervive is that it's not a team game

every character has potential of 1v3'ing and every character is built with that in mind

this game does not have roles, the only role focused character this game has at most is Elluna/Oath

that's why tanks will feel bad and ruin that dynamic

speaking of tanking, Wukong is like the tankiest character we have right now funnily enough

[split frigate]

Yeah i wish it were more like a traditional hero shooter in that characters are not as entirely self sufficient

[warm timber]

I agree after reading, signwave!

I have no idea why they made Tetra so low quality

Did they have no idea what to do, so they gave her a bra?

I would pay for it if there was a knightly looking skin for her

Her mastery stuff? They make her look sick and then the character itself looks derpy in comparison

(Saying this as a permanent Tetra main)

[broken wharf]

What do you think about Hudson

[raven frost]

Lord have mercy its so much worse in game

Everytime I look at this character im assaulted with boob

Loading screen shes got them out

Profile portrait they are right there

The only time im free is when shes hypesquad

[spare skiff]

I don’t understand why TC allow such cringe Thread in its discord…. 18 poop emoji says a lot what the moderator is not doing well

[vocal crest]

In what ways do you find it cringe? Do you think it breaks any of the server rules? You can find them at #📜│rules

[spare skiff]

I will read carefully

[swift pewter]

oh man this is sick! Can someone @ a dev or artist so they take a look at it?

[static fable]

they'll see it if they see it

[knotty whale]

I’m just tired of of seeing eye candy characters. At least balance that crap out

[uneven frigate]

why people still care about this lol, game has bigger and more urgent issues to address than boobs

[limber sparrow]

i never asked, but how do we know that the next character will be female?

[static fable]

voice line

is female

[limber sparrow]

huh alright

might need an m.2 upgrade just for the speed alone

look at that disparity between internet and disk speed hoooo man

[indigo verge]

nobody who has played supervive before goes back to it period. so maybe attracting a new audience isn't such a bad idea

[uneven robin]

i mean

nobody came back for Tetra

[worldly snow]

you can see a spike when tetra got released

on steam chart

[uneven robin]

damn

almost like a new champ = new content = some ppl come and check

and nobody came back afterwards because tetra being an attractive gymgirl did nothing for the game

[worldly snow]

so don't send rtarded message

[hollow crane]

woah watch out man. youre dangerously close to saying that marketing is the issue

[limber sparrow]

because people struggle to keep connection with the game. there is nothing extra about this game: no lore, no rotating gamemode, no sponsored streamer that actually plays the game regularly, and the community wants more casual gamers while complaining about SSBM which is a competitive concept in the first place. people complain about sweats ruining the game and critique visual appeal of the characters which doesnt matter too much. small sized dev team struggles to hear the community out while being stressed out that players are dropping out like flies. investors are likely to not be happy either as low player count drives sales away.
its just a whole lot of unfortunate circumstances and overwhelming pessimism from the community. even if we get new people in, the oldheads that are in here will show how sad they are about the state of play, which will drive the newbies away

[hollow crane]

like ive been saying for weeks

[limber sparrow]

i'll say it dammit

[hollow crane]

please

[hollow crane]

i would venture a bet that its some of the already accounted for 10k players that come and go

[limber sparrow]

marketing is the issue, but the community is a bunch of depressed tryhards trying to make their elo number go up and there is a different server other than this one where the content creators lurk and they apparently have an ego problem

[hollow crane]

i have a hard time believing that people who have never seen or heard of sv found tetra or mercury somehow someway and said "oh THIS is whats gonna make me play"

[limber sparrow]

from what i have heard

allegedly

[hollow crane]

hardly an issue man theres like 500-1k people total in ranked

[limber sparrow]

her face shows no emotion, of course not

you have seen the trailers

[hollow crane]

no im saying because the people that would be attracted to this game, 90% of them or higher i promise do not care about the characters at all the way the discord does

the trailers are shit

i keep saying that

i could edit the teaser better

[uneven robin]

Guys i figured it out. They are going all in on agressive marketing. They create characters that are essily marketable on the other side of internet, because it worked so good on OW. Bad comm is still comm

[hollow crane]

i ask every single person in every single sv game for 2 days now what they thought about the new champ

and the vast majority pre release said "i hope her kit is cool"

because its a moba lmao

[limber sparrow]

she has glassy eyes and an intj kubrick stare

[hollow crane]

and after they said "she looks kinda slow"

[uneven robin]

Trailers are not so bad tho. Its not peak but it’s not trash

[hollow crane]

trailer was fine the TEASER

my apologies i meant the teaser

[uneven robin]

Oh yea

[limber sparrow]

in any other scenario she would have her eyes lit with starry wonder like some kind of a vtuber model

[untold fox]

Tetra and Mercury both need a Void style face detailing pass. I know faces aren't priorities given they're not seen much in top down mode, but it really does help ont he loading and menu screens.

[hollow crane]

the discord would complain about it because shes thick with her boobs out

regardless of her eyes

[limber sparrow]

not to mention the branding

[uneven robin]

Eyes are higher....

[hollow crane]

whereas the players of the game that dont sit in discord say her kit looks too slow for the meta

[limber sparrow]

i would rather her wear that one bishop skin where no skin of hers is visible

like something mann idk

[limber sparrow]

yeah they removed the mortar item, just to give it to a ressurector

[hollow crane]

i will say everyone that has looked at the model does say "its funny that her boobs are out it seems unnecessary" which i think we all agree with and isnt worth arguing about

[hollow crane]

new players like me have no idea what mortar item youre talking about

thats the other thing this discord forgets

they complain about how things used to be

majority of people playing now have no idea how things used to be and also dont care

[limber sparrow]

this skin is so not cohesive too

[hollow crane]

HAHAHAHAHA

[limber sparrow]

half of her outfit makes her look like a christmas elf

[hollow crane]

nah yeah thats a nightmare ur right it looks like a christmas skin

[limber sparrow]

like its supposed to be a strawberry

at least give her laser mortar the seeds on the outside idk

[uneven robin]

Christmas elf but cowgirl wannabe

[hollow crane]

its very funny to take the gooner angle and then have the purchasable part of the character look like shit

[uneven robin]

Yeah

[hollow crane]

like it would be fine if it was all the same pink as her shorts

[limber sparrow]

good skin

[hollow crane]

great skin

[uneven robin]

Its almost like they do thing that work, without knowing why it works

[hollow crane]

they shoulda just gave mercury a skin that made her look like ranni the witch and everyone woulda been happy

[uneven robin]

Almost the same with gacha armory

And battle pass to some extent

[limber sparrow]

i will say something people wont entirely like or agree with here
the recent characters and skins looks like they belong in the game Paladins rather than Supervive

[limber sparrow]

at least most of the oath skins are slam dunks so there's that

[hollow crane]

i like tetra and mercury both

tetra is the coolest kit of any champ ive ever seen

[limber sparrow]

imperial
looks like a butler
no medallions
like ?????

[limber sparrow]

yeah she looks fun, reminds me of petra from brawlhalla

like, a lot

[uneven robin]

Me too, gameplay wise both are good, but design wise they couldve been a lot better

[hollow crane]

mercury is the hottest champ now which is cool

[uneven robin]

Is petra orbs and gauntlets ? Or am i remembered wrong

[uneven robin]

Tbh it doesnt transcend me but i guess im not the target, glad to see you enjoy it

[limber sparrow]

he looks like a chess piece, i know it's supposed to be eastern stule approach but like, give him more porcelain aesthetics or gold with green and red

[hollow crane]

make walls, decide to use them defensively or lose them to push, can vault over them, cool air movement, a dunk

good kit

coolest in sv for sure

ghost is literally just a guy with a gun

[limber sparrow]

care to correct yourself?

[hollow crane]

i take it back

[limber sparrow]

thats what i thought

[hollow crane]

but me and beevo would probably just have a platonic relationship

[limber sparrow]

crysta is kinda cool

monster tamer, looks like a pokemon trainer

not bad

[uneven robin]

YESS this skin is fire

And oh look she ́s not sexualized even with a lot of skin visible how come

[limber sparrow]

eastern style monk with no orbs is a crime

[hollow crane]

joule wears a bra on top of her shirt

[limber sparrow]

like even hudson has them

[uneven robin]

Its funny but it works somehow

[hollow crane]

my only complaint with mercury is that shes wearing shoes tbh

jk my problem with her is her skin

its so bad

[limber sparrow]

still one of the best skins undoubtedly

for sure a top 5 candidate

[uneven robin]

Ok so first time i saw her i was like "yet another conventionnally attractive woman....."
Then i saw underboob and there was a monkey braincell activation
Then i realised how out of place it was and got mad

[fathom arch]

Personally, zooming out & away from attractive or sexualized etc, I enjoy looking at interesting designs & ideas. What Interesting means or represents is wildly different for everyone, and everyone also needs some amount of things in their life that are interesting. They're are plenty of average looking, but incredibly interesting people in the world. Characters in any game, even a game without any lore can still be interesting in different ways.

If that means a character is interesting to someone because they're attractive, I'm here for that.
If instead it means the character is uninteresting to someone because its too similarly shaped to the others, regardless of whether or not they are attractive, that's cool too.
that's to say it can absolutely be that simple, and not that simple, either is fine.

[hollow crane]

ive said it before but i do really mean it, i simply cannot place myself in the shoes of someone that plays a game like this for character models

not because i lack empathy but i am simply too ranked pilled

never once in my time of playing league since the beta have i ever said "im gonna unlock this champ because she has boobs or is a robot or has a gun"

[limber sparrow]

plato in a cave

[hollow crane]

and i think that the majority of people playing games like this think the same way

i think they left click on the champ and then hover over the abilities, or see them win a teamfight, or get stomped by them

then they go unlock the champ

i thought shiv was a guy until just now because i was looking at all the champs for the first time hahaha

[limber sparrow]

ok but like, i look subpar irl but have done
music for ~16 years with composition, semi-self taught
voice acting for local box office official dub
table tennis competition
swimming for 9 years
taught pixel art
ex IT student, current Design student
you need lore to present things, otherwise people not gonna care

[hollow crane]

and i have 300 hours in this game since 1.0

[hollow crane]

🤔

i was there when they REMOVED lore from league

and the player count showed 0 reflection

like there was lore for the champs and they took it away

[limber sparrow]

yeah but it was there to begin with for most to all champions

[hollow crane]

volibear is a bear and he comes from the cold place up north

[limber sparrow]

and there was enough outside media they had that it didnt matter, years of cinematics and arcane

[hollow crane]

plus the thing i just said up here applies double for lore

someone tried telling me that crysta is made out of the radiation crystals or whatever that are pink around the map

like

not only does that not make sense i dont think anyone cares

cause if the game doesnt die they gonna have to redo 100% of the lore

[limber sparrow]

yeah but what part of the map/region does she come from? parents? personal goal/moral compass? shennanigans? anything dark about her that she is trying to hide with bubbly personality? nostalgia?

just give us dnd basic templates at least

not the best system but like, better than nothing

[hollow crane]

bro none of these thoughts cross my mind when she lands her q

i think oh the fuckin pink chick rooted me

im not arguing or insulting btw

just providing commentary

[mossy escarp]

If I'm gonna be sitting at my desk working all day I should probably spruce it up a bit to make me feel nicer sitting at it all day

[limber sparrow]

yeah you dont think of him fighting khazix when rengar cleanses with empowered W but it's there, lackluster as his lore is IT IS PRESENT

[hollow crane]

my desk looks like shit because its for working at 😭

its covered in redbull cans cause i have the whole internet on two monitors

the most beautiful things in the world at my fingertips

like supervive gameplay

[limber sparrow]

ok dont stretch it

[hollow crane]

i mean it, this is the best feeling game in the genre

the mechanics are cool and it flows very well

[limber sparrow]

true tho

i do miss the guaranteed slams

[hollow crane]

i think they overtuned dunks but thats an argument for another thread that will get recreated every 3 days

[limber sparrow]

-# i dont know maybe they will get the hint that the satisfaction needs to be guaranteed

[indigo verge]

the marketing sucks but it is not 'the issue'. you could have the best marketing campaign ever and you're still not going to pull anyone with this current state of the game

[hollow crane]

i think this is objectively untrue

especially with friendslop beign the dominant game genre right now

people never seeing the game means they wont play it

[indigo verge]

literally nothing about supervive is friendslop what are you talking about

[hollow crane]

if the game is fun and they enjoy it they will put up with the small bugs

[indigo verge]

yeah but the game is not fun in its current state lol

not in the long term

[hollow crane]

im simply saying that the current state of the game is far beyond playable

[indigo verge]

there are too many fundamental issues with the combat for the game to capture attention long term

it takes people upwards of a week or two to realize that every fight they're in is just 'throw everything at enemy and hope they die before you do'

and then they quit

this has been an issue since the first playtests and it's been brought up millions of times but somehow TC doesn't think it matters

[hollow crane]

i have brought on 5 or 6 friends so far, every one of them has joined scrims, or a league, and play 8 hours a day

half come from league

half are shooter guys

[indigo verge]

how long have they been playing

[hollow crane]

none of them have said a word about buggy

since the day 1.0 released, same as me

no beta

[indigo verge]

i give them 3 more weeks

[hollow crane]

none of them even complain about balancing

yawn

this discord hates supervive its crazy

[indigo verge]

also idk why you bring up buggy and balancing as those were never mentioned

the issues are a lot more fundamental

[hollow crane]

i assumed you meant bugs when talking about unplayable

if youre talking about balancing and mechanics and stuff then ill definitely double down

its a fun game

[indigo verge]

yeah cause this discord has mostly been here since the early stages and they have seen the game devolve

they have seen all the horrible decisions that TC makes one after the other

it's one long string of self sabotage

of course they get frustrated

[hollow crane]

the discord =/= the player base is my point

[indigo verge]

armory is the latest page in a long book of horrible decisions

[hollow crane]

this discord is a massive echo chamber

new players barely care about the armory either

they dont like it

but they just que up and play

vs you guys who have had something better previously

[indigo verge]

yeah but people only queue up for something they dont like for so long

that's the problem

people will excuse things while theyre in the honeymoon phase of finding a new cool game

[hollow crane]

they que up long enough to finish the armory

[indigo verge]

but over time

[hollow crane]

im not defending the armory

[indigo verge]

these problems they excuse at first will start to become more and more of an annoyance

[hollow crane]

im just saying most people dont care as much as the discord

about almost everything that the discord complains about

[indigo verge]

consciously no

they don't bother voicing these opinions because they don't truly care about the game

they just get annoyed and play something else

that's why player numbers are ass

it's because the general player does actually care about these things

they jsut don't bother thinking about the specifics of what is annoying them

and voicing that

[hollow crane]

i think the playerbase is good and the actual community is good i think the discord is toxic

[indigo verge]

they just move on and play something else

what playerbase?

there is none

[hollow crane]

idk man this discord was talking about how bapbap was doing better than supervive

and theres like 400 players over there

[indigo verge]

well that's just trolling

[hollow crane]

yeah thats because the marketing is shit

[indigo verge]

i love bapbap's developers but that game was never going to be a big thing

[hollow crane]

realistically the way you make this game popular is by stealing players from league

if youre advertising on the pokemon subreddit, yeah. no shit the players arent gonna stick

[indigo verge]

they could have the most amazing groundbreaking marketing ever seen, and they'd still lose their entire playerbase in the first 3 weeks

i whole heartedly believe this to be true

[hollow crane]

because you have the bias of someone thats been around for a while

[indigo verge]

don't get me wrong, their marketing was horrible

[hollow crane]

its a niche game, lets be so for real

[indigo verge]

but no marketing could get people to stick around long term in a game that is this fundamentally flawed

[hollow crane]

this will never in a million years, with all the right choics, and will all the money in the world

be "as big as league"

[indigo verge]

i mean i'm not saying it's not a niche game

[hollow crane]

because of the kind of game it is, specifically designed to be difficult and only fun for a select group of people

[indigo verge]

but even the people who are into these genres, who would be the perfect target audience for this specific game

are not going to stick around long term

[hollow crane]

games like league live because of the people that que for casuals buying skins

that wont work with this game because casuals are the people that quit playing

[indigo verge]

it literally isn't

they're literally not designing it to be that way

that's the problem

they're trying to appeal to everyone

[hollow crane]

by definition it is. this game is practically "league but harder"

[indigo verge]

if they would actually just appeal to a competitive playerbase then the game would be drastically better

or vice versa

[hollow crane]

i DO agree with this

[indigo verge]

but they've always been in this horrible middle ground

[hollow crane]

but you CANT

you know that

[indigo verge]

of trying to appeal to both sides

[hollow crane]

because you cant survive without selling skins to normies first

[indigo verge]

and in the end not appealing to either

[hollow crane]

you cant have big tournaments without money

and players

[indigo verge]

but they're not fucking selling skins to normies cus they're not appealing to casuals either

[hollow crane]

and you cant have players without appealing casual play

agreed

jinx

you owe me a coke

[indigo verge]

the game is fundamentally flawed because they have no idea what they're trying to make

they never have

they're trying to figure it out along the way

it's one big mishmash of half baked, rushed systems all thrown together to try and see what sticks

and it's just not cohesive

that's why it's fundamentally flawed

[hollow crane]

i genuinely believe the best solution is to make a focus group of the pros that care, that know everything about the game and arent biased, and hire/insentize them to give regular input that gets implemented quickly

and then market the shit out of it

[hollow crane]

which parts do you feel arent cohesive

genuine question not egging you on

cause in my head the things i think about are like

why is an "abyssal hatchling" a robot

[hushed mural]

Is this still about the female models

Or did u guys go mega off topic

[hollow crane]

no i fully derailed it

thats my goal in most threads

all you have to do is mmention armory

[hushed mural]

I was thinking ah yes, the female models are the reason the game is failing

[hollow crane]

hahahahaha

[indigo verge]

1. gameplay loop of PvE which is not properly balanced against the gameplay loop of PvP. they are constantly clashing which makes it horribly awkward to know what the best course of action is at any given point
2. the day/night cycle adds literally nothing to the game and is unintuitive. literally the only rational thing it should signify is zone movement but they are not fucking synced for some odd reason
3. they want to make a fast-paced, intense gamefeel but their abyss system clashes with it horribly, stalling endgames out to 3 minute staredowns across islands until one team is eventually forced to move
4. many of the kits are just 4 kill buttons, with no combat depth whatsoever, which clashes with certain kits that suddenly do offer defensive options for some reason. they can't seem to decide what they want it to be
5. armory is a casual progression system which clashes entirely with their idea of wanting this to be a competitive game
6. their revival system clashes entirely with their PvE gameplay loop leading to either wiping a team entirely or falling behind because you chased a team too long/got chased too long, while everyone else is clearing camps and getting items
7. the level cap is super unintuitive and clashes with their PvE gameplay loop in awkward ways, especially for new players
8. their wisp system is still in the game but for some reason they nerfed the survival times of wisps to like 3 seconds, which makes for a really awkward system where you often don't even get a chance to interact with it

etc etc

[hollow crane]

hmmm

i disagree with most things besides wisps

[indigo verge]

and 90% of these problems are literally jsut cause most of the systems in the game are bandaid solutions on top of bandaid solutions

it's one big jumbled mess

[hollow crane]

and with the leveling being overcomplicated

while in game

they should just put hard caps on days and nights

[indigo verge]

they seemingly have no vision for the game. they just fix whatever problem cropped up recently by putting in another system to manage it, which results in new problems, and then they add new systems for those problems

[hollow crane]

you cant get past 6 day 1. you cant get past night 1

[magic sonnet]

isnt this all derailing

[hollow crane]

yeah 🙂

[magic sonnet]

yeah if yall want devs to read this yall shouldnt derail this much 😭

[indigo verge]

no dev is going to read this anyway they dont give a shit about the female design problems cus management is most likely forcing their hand

only thing big daddy nexon knows is goonerbait

[high tapir]

they don't read a single thread here

[magic sonnet]

Okay honestly though, the goonerbait is obvious, the idea is clear, advertisement

[indigo verge]

ive seen them interact in some of the other ones

[high tapir]

and if u tell them directly they won't care either

[magic sonnet]

yeah, but they will if this gets more shit reactions 😭

[high tapir]

They wont

[magic sonnet]

eh, depends honestly.

anyhow

regarding the actual topic

[high tapir]

yea depends if u are lucky

cause it looks like they don't give a fuck

Just like they don't give a fuck to some champs

like wtf is hudson

[magic sonnet]

I think the base skin is fine, I think she has an interesting kit and honestly, the idea is clear behind her design, so I wont argue about that, I do like her 'witch' characteristics though, thats actually the only thing I like about her design wise

[high tapir]

Is this champ even real?

bro fuck the new hunter

they keep adding new hunters but don't fix the others

such a joke this devs

[hollow crane]

no it wont

[magic sonnet]

'guys i missed the joke guys'

[hollow crane]

oh i see it now sorry

i was dead

[hollow crane]

agreed i wanted a mage

i was nervous that she would use it like a gun but they did it in a cool way

[magic sonnet]

a mage with gun is cool too tbh

anyhow I think she has a cool kit and her design does semi suit it, just goonerbait what can do

[hollow crane]

this one is yeah but i mean i was nervous she would just hold it like shrike and have straight line skill shots

[magic sonnet]

ah fair

[hollow crane]

agreed, what can do

[magic sonnet]

Like idk why we make a threat about gooner bait btw

[fathom arch]

I'm not sure what you mean by this, but I agree that there has to be a base level of something to garner interest initially.

[worldly snow]

I think we should make hudson a female now

[limber sparrow]

as in from looks of me you would overlook the whole everything else. i know that im comparing irl aesthetic to a videogame, which is a poor thing on my end, but you can see that looks alone dont set a good baseline. would be the same if we looked good but had nothing to offer past that, shallowness and whatnot

trying to make every face pretty lands you in the final fantasy/gacha game category, while the opposite is undoubtedly concord. you dont entirely need to pander to the mainstream social standards of beauty, because dungeon meshi shows us that you can have unconventionally attractive and even basic looking, but appealing characters even in fantasy medium

same for the bodytype, but maybe not the style/clothing, that one will definitely make a lot of people look elsewhere

[split frigate]

I hope they update Merc’s design because i LOVE playing her

[limber sparrow]

but no need to have attractive clothing be skimpy, helltaker shows that women in suits are mad appealing, while plenty of other games give the characters tights or human body conformant armor that still is very appealing

[untold fox]

As an aside - Like, let's assume from a baseline that theorycraft will make any character design interesting and expressive. Boom they automatically solved the concord design issue. Concord wouldn't have done better with more boobs out. It would have done better with characters who had interesting expressions of themselves in their design, an art style, and a visual language. Still would have died for marketing reasons and because it was coming to a crowded market with zero selling point. Like "unwoking" concord wouldn't save it. Apex legends is unironically more woke than concord, and has done well historically and still is sustainable last I checked because it bothered to give characters personality and backstory that you can see in their design (and also wasn't hobbled by all the other non-visual design issues)

[white kestrel]

these gacha ads are so 😭😭

[rotund crystal]

i got this one too lmfaooo

[steady owl]

easy 10k players more for Supervive

[limber sparrow]

easy loss of all investors

lmao

[steady owl]

everyone knows players > investors

[limber sparrow]

yeah but for these big games no investors = no game

no money no honey

thats why indie games with a real love for their craft are the ones taking off recently

while cuphead was at a complete loss for the most part until they pulled through

[steady owl]

too late, we already have the game, we don't need them anymore

[limber sparrow]

not how that works, like at all

[warm timber]

Sounds incredible

[indigo verge]

implying they are still getting investors

i dont think anyone is still investing in this game

[potent dragon]

Just wait 10 years when all boomers are retired and all investors are gen z gooners

[vocal crest]

#1407306334688251955 message

[raven frost]

Return to tradition

Girls and boys

Or like women and men if your boring

[limber sparrow]

we are allowed sexualization, but only if it goes not just both ways, but ALL ways

add a monster, give a dumpy

[fleet grotto]

By the way, today confirms that mercury has brought back more players than tetra, that the day after release the peak went down

[mossy escarp]

I'm wagering the balance changes are what retained the players more than just the hunter. The dunk change alone is crazy

[static fable]

^

[mossy escarp]

New content release gets them in the door, improved game experience keeps them around

[mild rain]

So, I almost read the entire post. Don’t you think characters are usually designed to fit their abilities? I mean, a girl with a bow fighting for her life would generally be pretty slim and strong, right? Do you have an example of a triathlon woman athlete with a fat body? Maybe I’m wrong, but I feel like it’s just common sense… Maybe I’m being delusional here, and if so, my bad, but I feel like most characters are just athletic.

[broken wharf]

but Hudson is fat

[mild rain]

what's his weapon ?

[broken wharf]

Hes able to open his glider and run marathons for his life in game

[mild rain]

a fucking 200kg machinegun, i will not give that to zeph

we'll see if a female character got this kind of weapon and is really slim then yeah i would be shocked but for now i dont see the issue

what i meant is character fit to their weapons and style

[untold fox]

What about a giant sniper rifle, magic lightning, magic ice, magic dynamite crystals say they should be slim?

Heavier is one option for variety, there are other options, like having musculature with actual bulk.

Extra nerdy bit: archers had to be strong, but often weren't slim. Pulling a bowstring was one of the most labor intensive acts of medieval combat, and as a result were often the most swole. So if anything archer characters should be more ripped.

[mild rain]

i repeat, give me just one thriathlon athlete who's fat "Extra nerdy bit: archers had to be strong, but often weren't slim. Pulling a bowstring was one of the most labor intensive acts of medieval combat, and as a result were often the most swole. So if anything archer characters should be more ripped."

i dont know any but maybe i'm wrong i would love to accept ur fact

Also im ok about shrike, she could have been built different

[untold fox]

Are we using triathlon athlete standard for everyone or just one character?

[mild rain]

ok thought triathlon athlete was a good exemple, but anyway give me a fat body type athlete women from any sport

my bad on that

but in my opinion if u do a sport at top level, u cannot find any, and i dont feel like i'm offending anyone saying that

(btw i would love to see a zarya like character dont get me wrong)

just thinking that this thread is going way too far for nothing special

[untold fox]

I mean sure, that big strong look is cool. Also like, li wenwen is an actual Olympic weightlifer with a build most people would call fat or obese.

[mild rain]

yes she is in fact, u made a point. But u still understand what i mean by saying that its really slow pourcentage of athlete, right ?

and i'm pretty sure that supervive devs and chara designer would love to do a charachter like that, but you have to think about what weapon would fit to her etc (btw i think tetra could have been like her, manipulating earth could be nice for this kind of body type)

[untold fox]

But why are we holding women strictly to that standard, when multiple male characters aren't that kind of fit? Like don't get me wrong, it's okay for characters to be slim. Just being strictly realistic about all body types being athletic for female characters limits variety of characters, and we clearly aren't holding male characters to that standard.

[mild rain]

multiple men ? like hudson and kingpin, that's 2

[untold fox]

Void isn't really fit either. Then beebo is a blob, etc.

[mild rain]

beebo ? really ? do we consider it in this equation ?

void is really slim not muscular athlete

but still

he got muscle even if the "guy" is flying and manipulating gravity

i dont think its good exemples

(beebo is neither a guy or a girl to me, nothing specify is gender even on wikis)

[untold fox]

You're getting quite caught up in minutia here. The point is characters should have visuals that tell their story, no one wants otherwise. But we're letting male characters have stories and skill sets that let them be muscular, or heavyset, and we hope they let female characters have that variety over time, rather than only get character types that result in the same narrow band of body types.

[mild rain]

"You're getting quite caught up in minutia here. The point is characters should have visuals that tell their story, no one wants otherwise. " this is my point

dont care about the rest actually

[untold fox]

(for the record I do think Mercury, while not a wild outlier like kp or Felix or oath and it would be cool to have female monsters and nonhumans, has a more different body type than the core knot, and that's cool. Her shirt feels inexplicable, but body type is not as convergent as people were thinking off concept art)

[mild rain]

totally agree about that!
what do you mean about her shirt ?

wait i have to check it out

oh u mean about the fact we see 5% of under boobs ?

not really that significant, she's a witch

Anyway, it was good to debate with you about this @untold fox, thanks for being polite and respectfull during this, i feel like it was a good debate about the present and future of charadesign (i have an dev exam tomorrow i need to wake up early... (yeah i want to die rn))

[untold fox]

Go rest for your exam.

[mild rain]

thx

love to see u in the game anytime

peace ❤️

[raven frost]

Who cares its not a real person

It can be as fat or as skinny as whatever the person designing it wants it to be

[limber sparrow]

i want nore non-human shaped monsters

[split frigate]

Almost as lame as you @ing me in the middle of the day unprompted to talk about it when literally nobody gaf

[rotund crystal]

ahahahahahhha

[raven frost]

Dressing up on roblox dont harm nobody bruh

[untold fox]

is that... do those reaction emojis have a non-fucked explanation?

not the fire, that was kura (and me) enjoying the clapback

but the rest is quantum

[split frigate]

idk it looks pretty bad

[untold fox]

@static fable sorry if you're the wrong one to grab. Got some dog whistle looking stuff. Apologies if I'm misreading something innocuous.

[mossy escarp]

Ragebait is dumb

Hot take

It's just an excuse for people to be dicks

[topaz hawk]

My dog aparently cant hear shit

I want a beefy butch lesbian and gravity cannon with shields in the game. That would be a cool character that would add some diversity

Really add more shape language to the cast

[potent dragon]

Should have short pink hair and a blue armor/tracksuit thing

And a thick russian accent

[split frigate]

Thats... a really unique concept i cant believe t hasnt been done before now that i think about how iconic she would be

[topaz hawk]

Yeah man for real. Im not sure why no one has done it before. Idk why this guy wants a russian woman though. I was thinking more like southern from Louisiana

It feels like you're being sarcastic but I'll give you the benifit of the doubt 💅💅

[heavy magnet]

I don’t think I’ve heard a single good argument against giving the female Hunters more unique designs.

But if anybody wants to pull the “it won’t sell well!” card, consider the following:

1. We’ve already got enough waifu bait characters.
2. Ivy (seen below) is one of the most popular Deadlock characters, and that game technically isn’t even out.

[split frigate]

Dude are you still on this

Your obsession with me is beyond odd.

[mossy escarp]

<@&1169318934902739024> this is one step away from saying someone likes children. The subtext of this message is incredibly obvious, it was only written to start something.

Also it ain't even on topic

Harassment is stupid. If you wanna beef someone take it to dm's

[heavy magnet]

You’re the one that rushed in to insult someone over playing a video game here.

No, it’s just a video game.

Have you got some skeletons in your closet?

So you do have skeletons in your closet, and are trying to pull the “guilty by association” card.

You do know Roblox is a free game, right?

A lot of things made for kids can be enjoyed by adults, so I don’t see why you’re putting a spotlight on Roblox.

You called someone a groomer over a video game, and you only did it because somebody dared suggest that the female Hunters are objectified too much.

https://tenor.com/view/cinema-movies-movie-projector-gif-12345147

And while we’re at it, here’s the proof.
<@&1169318934902739024>

(proof no. 2)

[mossy escarp]

#📜│rules message

If you were to read the rules - the baseline requirement for engaging in the community - you would know that deliberate disruption is against them. Failing to want to qualify your words as deliberate disruption, it's been made apparent that your words are making people uncomfortable and you haven't adjusted to be more tolerant or at the very least stay on topic for the thread.

Your analogy is ignorant considering a noise complaint is a valid thing in the adult world, such is following the rules and guidelines of any community we engage in.

You're being childish and making people uncomfortable. Hash it out in dm's if you really have to. This community is not the place to be making your stand on people playing other video games you don't support.

Scroll up to see several inputs I've had on the conversation. Search my name to see the threads I've made on similar topics.

Shifting the blame only works when you aren't responsible for starting things in the first place.

I think you're just bitter that you're getting pushback instead of yes-men agreeing with you. You won't let yourself "lose" so you keep refocusing. It's not original. It's predictable and boring.

This is my last message in this thread.

[heavy magnet]

I would have never guessed you’re one of those guys.

[topaz hawk]

I do kinda think roblox is a kids game

Lots of groomer on their too

And i dont think children get caught grooming on their

[gray fern]

Howdy folks, let's try to keep the discussion related to the topic/SUPERVIVE related!☺️

Can't be number 1 without being odd 😎 Take it easy!

[untold fox]

Oh, did the sock puppet clearly designed to make fun of anyone asking for diversity through 'wizard posting' get turbobanned for saying absolutely unhinged stuff?

[mossy escarp]

yes

I'm sure you can infer half of the messages through reading my responses

[untold fox]

only generally

[topaz hawk]

I do think the game shoukd have more wizards

I mean shooting fire balls is awesome

[untold fox]

Before I realized he was just there to make fun of people asking for a wider variety of characters, my point to the banned guy was that I honestly don't think there are conventional wizards in the setting, at least among humans. Maybe you get some fae or something - as in the case of void (our clear wizard equivalent), or characters that draw from wizard tropes (like how Mercury is drawing from witch aesthetics while not having classic witch magic) without being classic 'guy's just magic, I guess'.

[mossy escarp]

Why don't we have a guy that's dressed in super stereotypical wizard robes and each of his spells is named after a conventional wizard spell but it's just regular stuff.

Like he gets "Fireball!" but he just throws a molotov cocktail. Or he gets "Lightning Bolt!" but he just uses a handheld taser. To round him out his M1 is just whacking people with his staff instead of using it to cast anything

"Light of the nines!" but it's a flashbang

cosplay wizard

either that or he's deluded himself into thinking he actually is one

[broken wharf]

well again on that wizard topic i just feel like void is a mage instead of a wizard and his magic is just contained on space manipulation

[split frigate]

Void feels like a warlock.

[heavy magnet]

As is the usual with this.

People don’t want to have unique female characters for one reason or another, so they distract people from it.

[shrewd tapir]

Let's get this thread to 40 poop emojis! We can do it guys

[heavy magnet]

What, can't handle the truth?

[timid shell]

This applies to 99% of discussions bro that's the norm

[untold fox]

Responses to this genre of topics is 100% about whether the title is negative/confrontational or not.

[raven frost]

We only get off topic when bad actors come in to laugha at them

This thread was on topic b4 the shitters came

[brisk lava]

Ew this thread reminds me of when I ate the bottom part of a banana by accident

[heavy magnet]

Wow, 40 poop emojis when there are over 100,000 people here. I’m so unmotivated now.

[brisk lava]

You should be

[worldly snow]

58 member joined this thread, Thats more than 66% of poop

[split frigate]

I think baseless negative attention is actually pretty revealing.

People could ignore this if it truly didn’t matter, but instead they come specifically to say how stupid it is.

[zinc pewter]

honestly i think mercury is amazing

she has an inverse triangle build

which is unique in itself

and she looks like a polish nanny who'd punish me for eating cookies without her lookin

[raven frost]

And if her look actually reflected her or told me anything about her beyond that she has tetas I would be all for it

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, make her an old lady instead of a Barbie doll with some sliders changed.

But by pornbrained dumbass logic, it wouldn't do well with everyone because they only think about themselves.

[rotund crystal]

why do u need her to be an old lady lol.

im all for cooler unique designs but some of the suggestions u guys give are the exact reason it makes it hard to be on the same page lol. im sure a majority of ppl that disagree with u would be agreeing if u just had a better way of talking and some better ideas. also calling any new lady body type "slider changes" instead of a new body type sounds like something you shouldnt be saying if u are asking for more body types. it literally makes 0 sense and is one of the reasons its hard to take u guys serious.

[heavy magnet]

Because something more than slider changes is better than anything.

If you're only here to distract people from what needs to happen, then get the hell out.

[rotund crystal]

nah u just wanna beat up old ladies u freak.

also saying "needs to happen" is crazy lol. check the paragraph msg i sent after that old lady msg it applies to u.

[heavy magnet]

Just because a female character has a slightly bigger ass or wearing an ab shirt doesn't mean she's a completely unique character.

And don't talk to me about "oh, a majority of the people who disagree with you would agree if you coddled them!". You just want to control how women are potrayed so you can wack off to them.

[raven frost]

I dont rly need it persay I just want anything interesting

Jins a fucking robot assasin

Felix is a pyromaniac fox

Shes a lady with potions

[heavy magnet]

Again, there’s no good argument against unique female Hunters.

Just distractions, cherry picking, and goalpost moving.

[rotund crystal]

literally sounds like something u would do with the way u talk lol.

like u are a person that is incapable of understanding other ppls opinions, just seems like u would be doing weird stuff like that as well.

[rotund crystal]

i mean brall is a guy with a sword

ghost is a guy with a gun

its same shit across the board

theres jin with a robot arm and a fox. ok we have a girl with rock arms and a bunny.

its really same shit across the board but ppl act like theyre making kpop ladies and then unique guys lol.

also btw saying i want to control how women are portrayed is actually psychotic. i am not in control of any of the designs, i like multiple different designs, my own custom hunter is a huge buff lady as big as oath/hudson. u are a freak for acting like anyone that disagrees with u is a certain way. just a horrible and wrong mindset to have, especially in a "discussion" lol.

thats not @ u fenrir its for the other guy spazzing

[untold fox]

I think it's unconvincing to pretend there aren't way more outliers in the male cast - like we notably stopped at those two ladies because it's more and more a strain to call any other female character outside the norm, but we haven't even gotten to most the weirdos of the men - big monster arm mutant, lanky goat looking guy with no feet and giant magic hands, whatever you call beebo, big bulky robot with a clippy icon hologram head.

I don't think we actually disagree, and I do think that getting frustrated to the point we start regarding everyone as the enemy or everyone is bad faith is not helpful. I can sympathize because there have been bad faith people, including some very messed up ones, come barging in. That can get enraging.

[zinc pewter]

@cold perch @mossy escarp don't judge me for my taste in nannies...

[rotund crystal]

there are forsure more unique male characters im not saying there arent.

just that overall i think ppl are acting like there is a huge design difference in this game. there are so many basic dudes in this game as well as basic girls. more unique dudes, but it isnt that unique imo.

and i wouldnt mind more unique girls either.

[heavy magnet]

We’ve been over this at least 50 times: The amount of male characters outside of the box is more than the female characters outside of the box.

So you’re either lying or you’re stupid.

[rotund crystal]

i litearlly just said that.

you are so dense lol.

and u are a weirdo. u are the same guy that was telling ppl to block me cuz i didnt have the exact same take as u, and u are also just going around calling ppl pornbrained bc they disagree with u. please move on.

[zinc pewter]

I'm thirst trap brained sorry not porn brained

[rotund crystal]

i like how this is the FIRST msg, and u somehow skip this, reply to the 2nd one with the same shit i said in my first msg?!

like how ridiculous can u be. u are either super ragebaiting or seriously a freak of nature lol.

bro ignoring the first msg and then saying im lying or stupid is BONKERS actually. this is not real hahahaha

[heavy magnet]

Don’t contradict yourself between two messages if you don’t want to be called out for it.

You say “oh, there are more unique male Hunters than female ones…” and then immediately say “but it’s not as bad as you say it is!”.

[rotund crystal]

are u crazy i just said there are more unique male champs, but they are still all very basic.

u just lack understanding that is all.

u are redditbrained cant blame u.

big robot. basic. guy with sword. basic.

lady with potion. basic.

[heavy magnet]

Ok, you decided on “stupid”, then.

The design gap between Oath and Brall is huge.

[rotund crystal]

i decide u are 😏

big robot and guy with sword are not huge design gap idk what games u have played prior lol.

[untold fox]

cool it, both of you. You're letting your respective opinions on each other distort your read on each other's points, and it's causing you guys to get into big fights over small differences in reads.

[heavy magnet]

Look at these two characters side by side. If you think they look the same, then you’re just a moron.

[rotund crystal]

never said they are the same

like talking to u is literally pointless because u will put ur own ideas into someones message then reply to it and argue lol

i am saying they are both basic designs. that doesnt mean they are the same thing.

if i say icecream and burgers are both tasty, i am not saying icecream and burgers taste the same.

understandable?

[heavy magnet]

What your logic is saying is that ice cream and burgers are the same food.

[rotund crystal]

insane lol.

[untold fox]

Yes, we've seen the archetypes for the cast before, including with the male cast. Supervive is often iterating or doing a mild twist on fantasy tropes, not radically reimagining.
No, this does not mean that the range of male fighters is anywhere close to as narrow (in terms of visual language, archetypes, kinds of 'cool factor') as we've largely gotten on the female cast.
And the fundamental point here - that the female cast could use a wider brush of varied themes than what we got (or at least that more variety would not be bad) - is where we all land on.

[rotund crystal]

i would like more as long as it fits.

i hate the way celeste looks rn compared to her old design but it makes way more sense than her old design cuz figure skaters are prob not chunky ladies

and i dont think mercury doesnt fit. i think a majority of them do fit. the one i said i dislike is tetra since i can see her being huge and controlling earth instead of tiny, wouldve been really cool to see.

[untold fox]

Sure, but they're also the ones choosing the fits. Like, 'figure skater' wasn't handed down to them from on high. They made that choice. And I don't think it's a bad one. It just seems they're constructing ideas where the right fit leads into samey territory.

[heavy magnet]

@rotund crystal And applying real life rules to a fantasy setting is stupid.

[rotund crystal]

maybe but its just her lore of her being a figure skater ig

[heavy magnet]

This is a game where a tiny bunny lady can fight a massive robot with a hammer. Anything goes.

[untold fox]

I don't even think we have that confirmed, lorewise.

[rotund crystal]

dude u are literally just arguing to fight with ppl lol

[rotund crystal]

doesnt she say it herself?

im like 99% sure its confirmed

[untold fox]

I'd have to double check, but I don't think she mentions figure skating outright.

[zinc pewter]

Yeah I low-key wished she was big mommy muscly lady 😭 😭

[rotund crystal]

me too bro lol

[heavy magnet]

Don’t even do that, just make her a magma beast or something.

[zinc pewter]

Ooh like a spirit

Sure that would be cool as well

[heavy magnet]

Sort of, yeah.

Think Blanka from Street Fighter.

[untold fox]

Trying to read this right - you don't think mercury doesn't fit, so you think her design fits? Just verifying what you're saying. I'm curious how you see her model fits. I think she's kinda pulled in too many directions (and not just on a 'too much gooner' way), so I'm curious what fit you see her playing.

[zinc pewter]

She could be a rocky wisp holy

[rotund crystal]

it just doesnt make me feel like its wrong. i can see the character and her kit and the two make sense to me thats all. she has magic orb gun thing, mage hat, her spells fit the color scheme of her clothes etc.

like i dont see her and think oh a mage would never show her underboobs.she can wear what she wants idc lol.

[raven frost]

Even while brall can be simplified as just a guy with a sword his design is way more intresting than most of the female cast

[rotund crystal]

how lol?

[raven frost]

Ghost is barebones but hes shooty Mc shootman every game has one

[rotund crystal]

guy with shirt off and sword is cooler than a lady with a mech suit? the hell.

[raven frost]

His sword is molten its name is Caldera bro

Yhats metal

[rotund crystal]

maybe to u personally u think brall is a cool design, but there is no way u think overall outside of ur own view that his design is more interesting

[raven frost]

I wanna know where he got it

[heavy magnet]

She could have been, but Theorycraft doesn’t have that kind of pressure to make unique female Hunters.

[rotund crystal]

dude look at the girls abilities too instead of just their body shape then. crysta has crazy crystal cannons, tetra giant rock arms and floating orbs etc.

[raven frost]

I personally do think its more intresting but that could be bias

[raven frost]

I love tetras design

In fact early on i was a tetra defender

[rotund crystal]

u are ignoring these cool traits and focusing on bodies, but for brall u do the opposite.

[heavy magnet]

People saying “looking at them under a microscope, they’re different” doesn’t help either.

[rotund crystal]

its def bias

[raven frost]

In the trenches saying that she could look better in motion and I like what they went for

I am mad shes not a tank bur thats a separate issue

[rotund crystal]

cuz guy with sword isnt a unique or cool design. the sword itself is cool, but so are the girls weapons too right.

[raven frost]

Im pretty neutral on crysta

I think shes fine for what she is

So I dont think every girl needs to be overhauled or everything like rhat

But a few are very boring

[rotund crystal]

i agree w that

all im saying is so are the guys lol

[heavy magnet]

Maybe if they actually built the designs around that instead of slapping it on at the last minute, people wouldn’t talk about it.

[raven frost]

Namely shrike ice girl whos name I forgot bc shes boring

[rotund crystal]

ghost is prob the most boring char in game, brall is very boring too

[raven frost]

CELESTE

Thats her name

And mercury

[heavy magnet]

Olympia from Rivals Of Aether did that better than any female Hunter so far.

[rotund crystal]

i think celestes design is alright but theres just something that i dont like abt it idk what it is.

[raven frost]

Olympia is going for a completely different thing than crytra

[rotund crystal]

i think if i was like u the way u enjoy brall then id enjoy celeste tho

[raven frost]

Beyond that they are both crystal related there is no comparison there

[rotund crystal]

how is that better design than anything tf?

lmfao

u are BUGGING if u think thtas a good desing.

[raven frost]

I am not very high on it

[rotund crystal]

idk that character and looking at her all i know is she is a rat that knows karate? the hell kind of "good design" are u smoking.

[heavy magnet]

Alright, then build up crystals along Crysta like a Lady Gaga dress.

[raven frost]

See now your cooking

[rotund crystal]

i can look at a majority of supervive characters and understand what theyre going for.

[untold fox]

Ah okay. I think she's not as clear as she could be just because she has too many visual elements (she's a classic witch (the hat), she's an alchemist/scientist sort (the potions and mortar staff), she's an adventurer (the sportier clothing, the jacket), even some magical girl elements (bright and streaked hair, some hyperfemme frills like the inner lining of the stockings (boots?), the mascot and peppy voice). And those archetypes can blend sure, but doing all at once on top of articulating supervive's unique blend of magitech fantasy and street style makes it a bit spread thin in how it means to articulate character, and that's before the underboob that I don't particularly think furthers any of those 5 different visual markers or archetypes.

And like... I'm someone that is fairly pleasantly surprised on the body type front. She's clearly on the safe side and not exagerrated, but they put some meat on her bones compared to the concept art, to the point you could read her as only having a cinched waist thanks to the girdle she's wearing. They could have gone more unique for sure, but I'm glad they did that over how close to the median they seemed set for. I just think in terms of visual language they ended up trying to say too much at once to be as impactful as they could have been.

[heavy magnet]

You think that the female Hunters we’ve gotten are unique because of different variations of fanservice. I wouldn’t trust your opinion if it saved my life.

[rotund crystal]

no i dont. you just like to pretend i do so u can pretend like ur opinion is correct lmfao.

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, there are so many unique options they could go for, and they decided to go with the Concord-tier decision.

[rotund crystal]

maybe, but i just see it as a blend of things that all make sense. like they dont seem out of place to me, and they all blend together well with her abilities and weapon.

best way i can explain why i think its actually good. bringing back brall, he is a guy with a sword. i think that is one of the most basic things u can make. she has elements of a witch/scientist/adventurer. that design alone is way more than something as simple as brall/ghost. even others like jin/carbine etc these are some insanely BASIC characters that are getting written off as unique because of the characters body, instead of the character.

it feels like a lot of ppl look at a humanoid girl, with a girls body, and say its basic. instead of looking at the character. carbine is a robot guy with a gun, there is nothing unique to take in when looking at him. jin is a guy with a robot arm and a sword, very basic, not unique. mercury has a blend of traits that make her unique as a character.

and the thing i like is that blend fits well. that monstrous failure of a design that this guy posted earlier of a karata rat with a crystal arm is not a good blend, mercurys blend of traits looks good and makes sense.

and saying all that, i am NOT saying we dont need more designs of monsters/animals. itll be cool to have some more like KP/elluna style lady characters.

[hollow crane]

how is this chat busier than the main chat lol

[heavy magnet]

I’ve seen clogged toilets that aren’t as full of shit as you.

1. Take a look at Ghost, then take a look at Shrike. It’s clear they’re meant to be two completely different things.
2. It’s a way better design choice than Crysta’s Concord-tier design, because at least I remember Olympia is part of the cast.

[rotund crystal]

ppl freakin out over bodies

[hollow crane]

in a game that will be dead in a few months

[rotund crystal]

ghost and shrike are different yea? what is ur point there lmfao?

and no that thing is a disgusting design.

a karate rat? with a crystal arm? so she doesnt even do magic with a crystal arm she does karate instead?

the fuck lmfao

[untold fox]

Somewhat, but I think letting themselves stray from the mean a little more could have led to interesting things. Like I don't think she needed to be an old lady or whatever, but imagine if they had. That would have let them lean into the whimsical cackling crone vibe on her witchiness, brought out the alchemy angle as like, the mad scientist angle. We'd be worried less about the magic shojo angle her, at least overtly, and her personality could come through as like this wild field teast science witch.

Or maybe they lean more into the intersection of witch and magic shojo. Have Maki's bear mascot pop up in other parts of her outfit, play like the animal companions you get in sailor sentai. You could make her outfit more frilled or anachronistic to nod to those inspriations, go all little witch academia or something.

Each of these character types would be a little more clear, even if they're perhaps less 'unique' because they're not drawing from as numerous a list of archetypes. But I think the desire to keep her attractive (young, adjacent to conventional body type, and the underboob for some reason) compromised any of those visions, or even the larger hybrid vision. Directives to ensure it was broadly appealing undercut its ability to articulate a singular memorable character. Which isn't to dismiss the work all the creatives brought to this. Clearly this involved artists, animators, writers, etc. all bringing stuff.

[rotund crystal]

and its a rat to add the cherry on top.

[hollow crane]

ppl just want more furries smh

[untold fox]

I mean, all things are transient.

My connection farted there a sec and I thought somehow I got automodded for that last one somehow

[rotund crystal]

i can agree with the design couldve been more focused to one of the traits, but i just dont think its an issue having them blended. i dont think its blended bad, and that is a good thing for me. idc if she is a lady with a nice body or not, if the design is stupid then ill think its stupid, i dont think hers is. thats why i mentioned celeste previously, i really dont like her design but it makes a lot of sense so i dont have an issue with it. but if it were to ever make 0 sense then id dislike it a lot, and mercury just makes sense, nothing is like horrible about it.

[rotund crystal]

im sayin bro.

[heavy magnet]

She uses a crystal for one of her most important special moves.

[rotund crystal]

idm if we get more animals or monsters but that design is disgusting and to push that as a good design just seems like ur furrybrained so callling ppl pornbrained is crazy lol.

[rotund crystal]

and its just permanently active on her arms? lmfao

[hollow crane]

im not insulting anyone when i say this im just observing:

it is very funny to see the game in the state that its in, going in the direction its going, to then go to the discord and see the most active conversation is "we need fat furry animal characters"

[rotund crystal]

LMAO

[heavy magnet]

Yeah, that’s the point. It helps her stand out.

[heavy magnet]

Nice strawman, I guess.

It’s nothing like what people have actually been saying, but I guess that’s all you people do.

You just distract and cherry pick to get what you want.

[rotund crystal]

"you people" this guy escaped from a facility lol.

[hollow crane]

"you people" im just a guy that plays a lot of supervive

[rotund crystal]

this guy is the one that created that disgusting labrat karate character and escaped from the facility he was held at lmfao.

[rotund crystal]

standing out doesnt mean good design buddy?

[hollow crane]

and im simply saying that this game is going to die because of the direction its going in, and its funny to me that people think that character models are important

at this point in its lifetime

[rotund crystal]

both can be issues but i see why its funny yea

[heavy magnet]

You think that Oath and Brall look the same. I don’t think you should be talking about good design.

[hollow crane]

didnt insult anyone, didnt make any bad faith arguments

just posted an observation

"you people" is the response

this is the reason the devs dont listen to anyone

[heavy magnet]

The observation was a strawman that every bad faith moron uses.

[hollow crane]

"the girls are skinny with boobs"

is an argument you and half this chat have made

and people have said its "why we cant get new players" or "reason people will quit"

dont talk to me about strawmen

[rotund crystal]

said they are basic, not the same.

two different words. u are choosing to ignore this, push ur own idea, then reply to that idea lmfao.

[rotund crystal]

him and half this chat shouldnt be linked.

this guy is deranged. the rest of the chat in general have good faith and i can understand why they feel the way they do. this guy literally just argues to argue, i literally think hes just ragebaiting and wants more boob character.

like one of the dudes that wants omega boob characters and just goes around ragebaiting for fun lol

[hollow crane]

ill be so real

this game could have a walking pair of boobs for a champ

the kit and gameplay matter more to most people

[heavy magnet]

Well, then let’s have a unique female Hunter if the gameplay matters the most.

[rotund crystal]

what?!

[dry forge]

Idk if I'd have the same obsession ovwr hudson if he was designed in literally any other way. Like both are important in their own way.

[rotund crystal]

u like big fat dudes huh?

ik what kind of man u are

[dry forge]

They make me thirsty 😩

[heavy magnet]

You heard me the first time.

[rotund crystal]

he is saying the design doesnt matter, gameplay does. u are saying then lets have unique design if the gameplay matters?

ur reply to him makes 0 sense as a reply lol.

[hollow crane]

unique has nothing to do with body size and appearance

unless you are some sort of misogynist

[rotund crystal]

he is lol

[heavy magnet]

Alright, then a unique-r design.

[hollow crane]

misogynist confirmed

this guy hates women and is a gooner

[rotund crystal]

he said mercury is just slider increase lol.

like wtf lmfao

[heavy magnet]

I could not be more clear about that. You’re either projecting or stupid.

[rotund crystal]

right

[dry forge]

This msg literally makes no sense ngl