The Female Hunter Design Problem

[sinful epoch]

Did I hear another Kiriko skin??

[golden tide]

You’ve been saying this a lot in the thread; id like to address it with respect and civility and i ask that you return with genuine thought and an open mind.

You reject the notion that the women all have similar body types and say that the focus belongs on their accessories and clothes. I agree that the clothes of the women in SuperVive deserve to be scrutinized, but it is dismissive and uncritical to say that there is not an issue of body diversity among women in this game.
All of the women in SV (save for Elluna) posses bodies that fall along the acceptable and conventional spectrum of women’s bodies in media like this. This is why we say “barbie bodied”. Every woman in this game would fit in an Old Navy commercial if they wore a tshirt and jeans. That is a spectrum of conventional attractiveness and normalcy. All of these women could be made accurately in the sims.
The reason people continually compare this spectrum of conventional lady body types to the men in the game is because the men are so drastically different from the norm and from one another and their designs are allowed to be less subtle and more fit to their personhood. They arent forced to be “pretty” or “sexy”. i find Hudson very sexy but he is not made into a one dimensional snapshot of masculinity to align with what i find sexy in men, the way that most of the women have the same wing eyeliner and generally slim-slim thick frame.
I said before, i love that Myth has abs, i love that Eva has tattoos, i love that Tetra is short, but no women are as drastic as the men and that is a double standard that reveals the way women are commodified. And people dont want to see that perpetuated. I acknowledge that Mercury has wide hips. And im glad she does. But wide hips on a conventional human lady frame is not diversity when there are foxes and robots and men built like refrigerators.
I felt as though nobody directly addressed your claim, and i am being genuine when i respond in this way.

Oof lots of words

https://tenor.com/view/taiho-shichau-zo-teehee-anime-youre-under-arrest-ova-gif-21342147

[sinful epoch]

"Mercury is actually thick, she's not sexualized

Looks

Thin waist & arms, fat bazongas, wide hips, thick thighs

[hexed socket]

But yeah lets take one of the only gender-neutral / genderfluid character in games n say they're a bad design because they can't sell skins for them

[golden tide]

Yeah the clothes and the way the characters are marketed is a whole different conversation and this game fumbles that MUCH harder

[hexed socket]

or they haven't made any skins for them that work

like xP

[golden tide]

When i saw Merc’s silhouette i was honestly disappointed but in my head i was saying “please be black or brown…”

And she is not. Or at least, not unambiguously so.

[sinful epoch]

We even have a race of elf fellas like Zeph

Where's the short elf lady

[golden tide]

I love her weapon and I’m going to play her but like damn!

[hexed socket]

also i think venture is like on of the RARE characters in overwatch

[golden tide]

Also they could’ve made her WAY thicker and really played with proportions if they wanted to make a “thick lady”

[hexed socket]

that escaped r34

[golden tide]

Im glad they did that gamer skin for venture. It looks really good.

[hexed socket]

overwatch suffered hell

[wind forge]

Shiv is secretly three shorties in a trenchcoat

[sinful epoch]

Her having cool parts in her design and not being sexualized are not mutually exclusive, I think that's what a lot of the defenders ignore/strawman

[golden tide]

Right.

[cinder summit]

That wasn't my point? You were just assuming and going for it. Venture is simply mad ugly and design speaking boring. They tried, but it didn't work. That simple

[sinful epoch]

Yeah, she has cool things on her design. So? She's allowed to have those and not be a trip to honry jail

[golden tide]

Venture is not ugly omg!

I think venture is very cute and normal looking

[sinful epoch]

Venture a cutie patootie

[golden tide]

What a cruel way to speak

[tacit rain]

Venture is boring because Overwatch's character artists are creatively bankrupt, not because they don't have a pair of double d's strapped to their chest

[hexed socket]

I think she's a lil dirty (as in actual dirt is on her teeth)

[wintry zenith]

It’s coming from the same person thing to dunk on my concept sheet for a unique female Hunter, so I’m not surprised.

[golden tide]

They are dirty and that is the point

[sinful epoch]

Isn't that a chipped tooth?

[cinder summit]

sure, that's your opinion. That's why no one really plays her or the team made skins for her

[hexed socket]

maybe i dunno

[fickle pewter]

how did this turn into anything but supervive related :3

[hexed socket]

the fact there's MULTIPLE fan skins

[cinder summit]

well, no. That's not true. The recent hero looks cool with the crossbow

[hexed socket]

Shows its not they can't

it's that they just didn't get any

[golden tide]

Youre being very rude and misgendering Venture, please do not speak to me anymore.

[cinder summit]

block me. It's that simple

[wind forge]

Someone tried to use an outside example of a non woman character to make a point about female character design

[golden tide]

Frankly Overwatch wouldnt release an ugly hero. And if they did, they would put a mask on them like they did with Roadhog.

[summer copper]

Normal discussion thread going off topic

[hexed socket]

yea

[tacit rain]

Freya or however tf you spell her name is just as boring as Venture and it's clear you have pedestrian tastes

[fickle pewter]

yall so focused on design, should focus on not getting spiked nubs

[hexed socket]

anyway supervive has overwatches artists, and as talented as they are, we're having the same issue with female characters atm

[golden tide]

Freya makes Venture look like the Mona Lisa

[cinder summit]

sure, that's okay to think

[wintry zenith]

Maybe you should have taken your own advice before jumping into this thread, you shallow prick.

[hexed socket]

Eh freja is cool, imo

[golden tide]

This is an uncharitable way to engage with this topic. We can be good at the game and also want character designs to not further harmful patterns.

[hexed socket]

I like her visuals, it's an astethic overwatch doesn't have

[cinder summit]

why now lean towards personal insults?

[hexed socket]

Okay i'll count to five

and if the name calling is not done

[wintry zenith]

Because you’ve been doing nothing but that since you got here.

[hexed socket]

thread is gonna be closed

5

[cinder summit]

I said nothing toxic. I am just being honest with my thoughts

bye

[astral lintel]

Name calling has been here since minute zero

Its almost core to the topic

[hexed socket]

true but it shouldn't

[summer copper]

Hi before close

[golden tide]

And if youre joking, its a joke that makes this conversation look petty, which i dont think is very kind or helpful.

[wintry zenith]

anyways

I hope Theorycraft learns from the backlash Mercury and Terra have been getting, and make more unique female Hunters.

[hexed socket]

I mean

male character? anytime soon?

Wukong is a monkey

no offense

[wind forge]

Monkeys can be male

[sinful epoch]

The complaints about female design variety will continue until female character design variety improves

[astral lintel]

We remain the minority

If theyre gonna keep thinking inside the box with the female Hunters, give me 5 guys in a row or sth

[summer copper]

Genuinely, just add shiv's sister or relative

[sinful epoch]

There's so much more they can draw from; the universe has monsters, furry little guys, elf fellas, constructs/cyborgs/androids

[hexed socket]

yea

like

[golden tide]

I’m going to draft up a concept for a Hunter lady right now.

[hexed socket]

they could make beebomb a character

wait

[sinful epoch]

Yet every character released since the base cast, aside from Beebo, has been some flavor of old navy commercial model

[hexed socket]

THEY ALREADY ARE

:C

I well never not complain about the amount of utility that character gets for free

[summer copper]

Bee bomb gonna be a rez beacon next patch? Thoughts

[sinful epoch]

Beebo is genuinely a menace

[hexed socket]

xd

[sinful epoch]

He's being overshadowed a bit by Shiv/Crysta/Wukong, but believe me he's a goddamn freak

[tacit rain]

Honestly... yeah, Venture's a pretty lame design

[hexed socket]

Especially when fucking JIN ULT

or WUKONG ULT

cannot rez

at all!

[summer copper]

Infinite utility character needs more utility, understood makes perfect sense

[sinful epoch]

And now that his bomb isn't his main source of damage, he can go all-in with bomb utility

[tacit rain]

I'm just tee'ing off on OW really, but still, a lot of the newer characters are straight up snooze-fests

I think the last notable one was Ramattra, honestly

[wind forge]

I look forward to carbine's old navy commercial

[golden tide]

I like the coat and i think the drill carries.

[sinful epoch]

To be fair Carbine doesn't look like an android, if anything he looks closer to something like the Mandalorian

[golden tide]

I find Venture more engaging than reinhardt and soldier. Personally.

I love soldiers jacket though it carries

[sinful epoch]

The visual language of his body being mechanical isn't very strong

[golden tide]

Yeah carbine looks like a guy. His physicality reads as musculature. Its cool though.

[tacit rain]

Those two are like, a 6/10 to me, honestly, as an of average of everything I've seen within the industry, and what few games I've actually bothered to play, but Venture's definitely a 4/10 given just how basic they are

[wind forge]

It's pretty bad if you remove the character designs established in ow1. After that it's all sanitized, young, safely pretty people under 35 with personalities aiming to be blandly popular and models that stay safely within conventional body types.

[golden tide]

I love Junker Queen but they just made barbie taller and relatively ripped

[tacit rain]

Yeah, none of them really clicked to begin with, and even the OW1 cast wasn't anything crazy, but it is notable given just how reactionary the gaming industry as a whole is

[golden tide]

And i LOVE Junker Queen

[wind forge]

Got a 10/10 for reference?

[golden tide]

|| Lucio|| is a 10/10 to me personally

[tacit rain]

I take it back, Sigma was kind of a home-run, but he's an anomaly

Only character to never get an animated short and he clearly needed it the most

[golden tide]

That cannot be true-

Everyone else has an animated short?!

I do not believe that.

[tacit rain]

Out of the OW1 cast I think?

Idk, I don't think the hamster got one, right?

[golden tide]

I don’t think so, but clearly i dont remember jack

[tacit rain]

Yeah, Sigma/Ramattra would be like 8/9 to me

[golden tide]

I kind of want sv to do a community character creation thing or a largescale poll so that people can voice what they want to see represented.

[wind forge]

Just had a presentation thing that devs say in on

[tacit rain]

I tend to almost play exclusively support characters, or barring that slower, heavy-hitters with lots of defensive options, Tyto flies totally in the face of that, and he's the one character in the entire archetype that was cool enough for me to latch onto and enjoy it, 10/10

[golden tide]

A lot of people use capitalism and the sexist reality that women are commodities to justify constantly making lame women designs, but i think thats just actionably a myth. Ofc it can work well in the long run but integrating stuff that is “ugly” and “fat” is way more appealing to people than i think most realize.

[golden tide]

Do you have a 10/10 feminine design at the ready? Just wondering

[golden tide]

Im gonna start stalking these guys then.

Cant miss stuff like that

[tacit rain]

Also, I notice you posted the two actually good designs from Bleeding Edge in another thread, Kulev and Mekko are actually brilliant just off concept alone

[wind forge]

Fun fact: I don't think tyto has any pronouning

[tacit rain]

Officially, no, but even the lore blurbs switch it up between he/she/they, and I'm quite tired right now so I just defaulted to he

[hexed socket]

https://youtu.be/xTflTQirVR0
This was most recent one

[golden tide]

Oh i love me an all pronouns ass bitch

[hexed socket]

the two before that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y2J8corjK24
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImADx-AsNxY

[golden tide]

Putting this in the background while i draw the lady hunter im working on

[tacit rain]

Genuinely a tough question, I gotta think about this

[hexed socket]

I've hosted a few xP

[golden tide]

Oh thats crazy

Need to lock in omg

I only found out about sv from the discord event 😔 if i could turn back time

[wind forge]

Fair. The lore blurbs might only be proper nouns though is the crazy thing.

[hexed socket]

The squirrel one is what inspired wukong i'm pretty sure

[tacit rain]

The Tyto is Nonbinary discourse, does slap though

[hexed socket]

Tree-jumping

gettting a dash reset when hitting a tree

[golden tide]

I love calling things nonbinary

Its so cathartic spotting nonbinary stuff in the wild

Damn Merc’s underboob is so extreme…

I just saw it fresh again

Like jumpscare

[hexed socket]

xD

It is a jumpscare

we are all terrified

[golden tide]

Its like if mercy had a boob window like oh hello!

[hexed socket]

if i can't have a character as my PC background without ppl thinking i'm a pervert then..

[golden tide]

Well i could have hudson as my background and still think perverted thoughts so I don’t know about this line of thinking /j

[hexed socket]

LOL

like this is mine rn

for my laptop

So nice

[tacit rain]

Would it count if I said I was willing to give Vyper a 9/10 just based off of her voice alone?

[golden tide]

I actually cannot post mine its quite suggestive

[golden tide]

No

[hexed socket]

LOL

[tacit rain]

Like, she doesn't even have an official model yet, but the accent has so much personality, Valve writers cooked so hard with her

[crystal garden]

Welp.. just saw the trailer for the new hunter ;-; it's just disappointment upon disappointment.

[hexed socket]

I mean yeah...

[wind forge]

Vyper characterization is infinitely charming. Third funniest and second most endearing on the cast.

[tacit rain]

https://www.reddit.com/r/DeadlockTheGame/comments/1mu25cy/vyper_x_billy_convo/

[hexed socket]

oh that is

not what iexpected

[golden tide]

Oh shes cunty

[tacit rain]

This convo is actually wild as fuck, and I respect them immensely for having the balls to go there

[hexed socket]

balls almost as big as mercuries bo**** ...

[golden tide]

Oh wow i gotta be ready for when any next event rolls around

[hexed socket]

bro why does this just remind me of that one tom clip

[golden tide]

Hmm. Ill design a hyper sexualized man that teeters on male power fantasy and stripper, and a nonbinary black femme. What can go wrong

[hexed socket]

where he just looks at eva and goes

[wintry zenith]

I actually need to play more Deadlock, just in case they changed the item system again.

[hexed socket]

(the summer event)

"It's a shame noone can cosplay this" (stare)

https://youtu.be/51O7utIQ7fY?si=P44lSlV37gmDu3MW

[summer copper]

Jin is all i need. If we're talking purely on character design, i would smash jin :)

[hexed socket]

Like maybe that's game design idk

[hexed socket]

you do you

[golden tide]

Im a beefcake and fatty liker

Mauga literally made me hyperventilate

[wind forge]

Someday my objectively correct smash tier list for supervive hunters will hit the server, and there will be no survivors.

[golden tide]

A good twink or hunk or some other non-bear is never rejected ofc, but a bear who is even halfway slutted out will always 360 no scope me

[summer copper]

One of these days surly...

[tacit rain]

Chippendales Conan the Barbarian?

[golden tide]

With a little more body fat percentage

Hmm. Maybe theyll be like if solid snake didnt have on a bodysuit and only had all the gun stuff and straps and shoes as clothes. Idk. Ill make sure to mirror the skimpiness of the SV ladies.

[tacit rain]

It's 4:15 in the morning, and I'm not sure if my brain is processing any of what you've typed out accurately whatsoever

[golden tide]

Wait… custom event #1?? 👀👀👀

[tacit rain]

But I like you, and I will be watching your career with great interest

[golden tide]

Lol well thank you Chimp Chump

[tacit rain]

A "good" time was had by all, a pleasure to see many of us usual suspects again, with that being said

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-golisopod-emergency-exit-goodbye-chat-goodbye-gif-25042117

[hexed socket]

well that was the first one

so yea

[golden tide]

Slay ok

[calm depot]

I tried to catch uo on the convo but

So many messages

Rip

[wind forge]

keep it up and this might even enter the top ten of times this specific conversation went long.

[wintry zenith]

I'll see you all when the next female Hunter gets released.

[acoustic gust]

so next month?

/j

[spare wing]

wtf is her weapon isochron?

[golden tide]

Peak-boli Rudolph

[wintry zenith]

I’ll rephrase what I to keep it on track: Theorycraft needs to make more unique female Hunters.

We’ve already got enough conventionally attractive women and a marketable plushie character, so now there needs to be some design diversity.

[heavy spire]

yeaa just like this one right

wukonga

[heavy spire]

that one is tuff too

u cookin

[eternal forum]

I see her different enough

[summer copper]

My only issue is the random cut out in her shirt. I don't really get the whole "body type" conversations.

[wintry zenith]

It's because she looks the same as almost every other female Hunter when the male Hunters can look as different as Theorycraft wants.

And don't try and pull the "they look different from each other!" card when Beebo and Kingpin are both male Hunters.

[summer copper]

Yea and I'm saying I don't see this being too true. Body type isn't the only thing that characters have, but supposedly they are. That's how you guys are acting honestly.

[manic raft]

her face is much rounder in the model than in the art lol

[eager jackal]

why

[wintry zenith]

Because this isn't Genshin Impact, and shouldn't try to be.

[eager jackal]

this is a game meant to make money, not just try to be different from genshin impact

[wintry zenith]

Well, then Theorycraft are grifters if they keep pumping out conventionally attractive women for their female Hunters.

[eager jackal]

conventionally unattractive women are less attractive to play than if they were attractive

[glad girder]

My only issue is this: if TC released a female character like Reksai from LoL it would be pretty cool and entirely welcome. But if you don't dig into it you'd be forgiven for not even knowing that Reksai is female. For this reason, the people who want more diversity in body types for female characters in SV would not be satisfied. It's not a humanoid so it wouldn't count (maybe if it had female VA and not just guttural screeches or something). These people will only be satisfied when the full spectrum of body types is present for female humans. Problem here is that although not all female characters have to be 'hot' per se, releasing one that is conventionally unattractive might erode the game's audience. TC would be wise not to do that. I also can't conceive of game design reason why body-type diversity within the female character category matters if body-type diversity is satisfied overall (when not considering m v f)

[wintry zenith]

So SUPERVIVE fans are a bunch of virgins, then?

Is that what you want to imply here?

[eager jackal]

you are saying that for god know what reason, there has not been a single case of a game where the "ugly one" has been more popular than the "good looking one" if they had the exact same kit

and shouldnt even need much thinking, people are attracted to attractive things

[wintry zenith]

So because of that, we should just keep making the female Hunters hookers.

[eager jackal]

yes

if they want money

[eager jackal]

if they want to just make statements then sure make amputees fatsos

but then again

a private for profit company goal is to make money, not just make statements

[stable ice]

got on deadlock after being disappointed w this game and lost my disappointment ty

[wintry zenith]

I should have expected you to pull that card when you use the same excuses as people talking about Genshin characters needing melanin.

[eager jackal]

i dont even play genshin impact, i am just not delusional

if you want to add "diversity" for the sake of it make you own game and lose money on it i guess

[glad girder]

And the thread once more devolves

[wind forge]

where are we at?

[eager jackal]

i dont get the thread about female designs, or the people pushing it, is like they dont live in reality

illaoi is a very diverse champ for league of legends

also the most unpopular female humanoid

[wind forge]

oh we have a full 'anything outside the norm is a money losing pipe dream of the left'

[eager jackal]

nah

just the deluded ones

[slow skiff]

just love the ping ponging on the server here where half of the sentiment is "design doesnt matter i only care about abilities" and the other half is i refuse to play a character im not physically attracted to and they still play characters like kingpin/felix with no complaint

[eager jackal]

I think most of the server does not even play the game

[wintry zenith]

It's just plain sexism.

They'll play all of the male characters despite probably not being attracted to them, but god forbid you ever suggest a new female Hunter that doesn't blend together with the rest of them.

[eager jackal]

When are you going to start working and actually spend money then?

[raven dawn]

💩

[wintry zenith]

When are you going to, by dumbass logic?

[azure geode]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-house-доктор-хаус-хаус-gif-12214380363960840199

More threads more mouse bites

[glad girder]

Alright mods should probably lock this one

[raven dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/fat-fat-families-tarnya-cuff-waddle-fat-waddle-gif-12459354117345818015

[eager jackal]

god forbid a girl wants to play a cute girl in a videogame

nah she is sexist

[raven dawn]

we need this

https://tenor.com/view/fat-fat-families-tarnya-cuff-waddle-fat-waddle-gif-12459354117345818015

https://tenor.com/view/hijab-break-dance-dwern-burqa-gif-11036766

or this

you guys choose

[eternal forum]

before it was a "all models are cookie cutter" now we got a different body shape and the argument evolved

[eager jackal]

nah you need to add rainbow hair colour and some limbs missing too

[raven dawn]

ppl without minimum sense gona complain about stuff they dont understand

[eternal forum]

the next very diverse girl will arrive and the argument will be: "its only one man, we have 6 akalis in the roster, I hope next female is also like this, its only a good step!!!"

[eager jackal]

also make them on the spectrum

and on that topic, not female, but non binary too

[eternal forum]

does anyone remember how ugly was lux pre-release and how the community went on riot because she was ugly and riot had to hot-fix her to be pretty? Now we are the opposite

[eager jackal]

she was indeed ugly

looked like a flag

[odd steppe]

next hunter is my wife because i guessed half there kit before release

:>

[eternal forum]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r44q4w2Oq4

if someone is interested

very good documentary from Exil the goat

[eager jackal]

wasnt the poster girl ahri?

[eternal forum]

nah before it was lux

thats why first ultimate skin was for lux

[wintry zenith]

Nobody said that, but I guess this is a Gamergate thread now.

[eternal forum]

uh ye, deadlock designs really make me want to buy skins for the characters /s

not like deadlock for me is a pass just art style alone lmao

which yeah you can like

[eager jackal]

i mean lux always been popular, but only ahri got the "ahriversary" treatment making all chromas korean girl

[glad girder]

This stuff is why I think this should be locked. Thread's devolved too far

[eager jackal]

i mean sona got the ultimate before lux

[eternal forum]

but speaking of deadlock as the pinnacle of art-direction/design is very clowny, which would also be to speak about league like it

[eager jackal]

arcane single handedly brought back league into mainstream media for art direction/design imo

and mel brought it down under again for gameplay design and ingame model design

but were a good couple of months

[latent blade]

True, women and representations of women in media exist to provide value and if they do not provide enough value you should simply replace them with women that provide value.

[north niche]

luke always dropping truth nukes

[eager jackal]

sounds more like just... common sense

[wintry zenith]

But luke, what about the woke mind virus I'm sure Shinko believes in?

Wouldn't it win if Theorycraft adds in a unique female Hunter?

[eternal forum]

I guess you guys hate tekken no?

[eager jackal]

I just think they are just extremely young to understand what the majority of people like to spend money on

[eternal forum]

is tekken a failure because their female roster has actually less model variety than supervive?

[wintry zenith]

Is Family Guy a good show because it's gotten 20+ seasons?

[eager jackal]

yes

if it was a bad show it would have been cancelled... again...

[calm depot]

Dude you really need to chill out. I get that these conversations are frustrating but you're dishing out personal attacks and insults constantly.

Take a breather and come back in a bit. I promise there will be mire to argue later

Insulting people will just make them more defensive and less receptive to anything you have to say

At the end of the day we are on our computers talking about a video game

[eternal forum]

SECOND best fighting game series in the history is bad according to mr Sixty four, we can close the thread guys

[calm depot]

Life goes on and this conversation is ultimately notnthat important

[slow skiff]

I just don't understand why the hot female characters can't coexist with a different type of female character? Brall, Kingpin, Beebo and Felix all exist in the same roster. Couldn't you argue you could appeal to more people if everyone has a different kind of character they like?

[eager jackal]

Its because of crowding out, hot people tend to garner more "views" than not hot people.

Not hot people therefor become unpopular and forgotten

[raven dawn]

https://tenor.com/view/doctor-who-dr-who-love-and-monsters-abzorbaloff-abzorbalovian-gif-20410803

next female character

[wintry zenith]

Don't tell me to chill out.

I started this thread to try and tell people about the issue I was seeing, and look at what it is now.

I'm tired of being all nice and Wholesome 100 with people who don't give a shit about that.

[eternal forum]

too humanoid, put the skin a bit more purple and we got it

[slow skiff]

But couldn't you then make this argument for Kingpin/Felix/Beebo etc.? Like what's the line of reasoning which makes it so that the female characters should fit this kind of criteria but not the male characters?

[raven dawn]

the voices in your mind

[calm depot]

Constant aggression will only hurt your end goal. You're also just being rude, which is generally not cool

[eager jackal]

From personal experience girl gamers i've known and played with only like to play cute girl characters or cute boys sometimes.

[eternal forum]

NGL nobody really cares about the genre of firefox and beebo, they could be actually gender neutral

[raven dawn]

100%

[wintry zenith]

And lying down and taking everything does what, exactly?

[slow skiff]

Yes I am aware. But how many characters do they need in the roster to be happy?

[eternal forum]

Just make Beebo be a girl

we dont need any changes

[raven dawn]

ask for a girl what she thinks before you think for her

[slow skiff]

Beebo is voiced by a woman

[eternal forum]

why are we assuming Beebo is a boy

[rugged frigate]

You should also tell that to the other people doing the same on the thread

[wintry zenith]

That's all you shallow pricks have been doing since you decided to infect this topic.

[eager jackal]

Is not about making a certain group happy, is about what people would like to play and spend money on.

Riot made Illaoi to please the devs that wanted to make a diverse woman, muscular and such... and it didnt work because even if her gameplay could be fun (i like it) if it looked like ahri would be way more popular and provide more skin sales

[slow skiff]

Felix is clearly male, Beebo is more uhh like open ended

[eternal forum]

would you be happier if Beebo became a girl, like, canonly? Im seriously asking

[wintry zenith]

Why should I care? You're just going to turn that against people like everything else.

[raven dawn]

you guys are assuming that will be offensive for a girl and you dont even care if girls will be offended or not

[eternal forum]

No im actually curious, I think it would be positive that beebo would be recognized as female, and with the nature of the character we dont really need any changes in the game

just get Justin here and ask for it

[eager jackal]

AND YOU KNOW WHAT I AM ANGRY ABOUT SOMETHING!!!!

MY GIRL TALIYAH I LOVE HER SHE IS THE BEST BUT LIKE... she is very ugly for the majority of girls i played league with... like WTF BRUH... in any case yeah is sad but it also personally hurt me that human psychology is like this

[wintry zenith]

So why enable it by saying the exact same kinds of things the people that called Illaoi ugly?

It's because you don't actually believe that.

[eager jackal]

because i am not god nor an all mighty entity that can force or decide what people like

people like to look at cute pretty things and play pretty things or things they think are cool and spend money on them

[slow skiff]

Taliyah has good skins but she has certain qualities that miss for a lot of people, which is fine. No one is arguing the entire cast should be Taliyah or the entire cast should be like Lux/Ahri

[wintry zenith]

Alright, then let's have a cool female Hunter that isn't just a Barbie doll.

[eager jackal]

she would be way more popular and have way more skins if she was more conventionally attractive, which is sad because i like her butter face

[wintry zenith]

The only reason you think it won't work is because of some faulty pattern recognition.

[eager jackal]

eh?

[slow skiff]

describing Taliyah as butterface is something 😭

[eternal forum]

the design of the champ doesnt help her aswell, taliyah is designed gameplay and art-wise to be niche

[eager jackal]

i love butter faces :D, i actually would totally date caps and slap that buttery face

reminds me of mr bean

[north niche]

taliyah is cute if you dont get it sucks to be u

https://tenor.com/view/taliyah-dancing-dance-star-guardian-fiddlesticks-gif-26178668

[eager jackal]

she is cute

look at those thick eyebrows

so dreamy

[eternal forum]

anyway we are de-railing from the real point

lets make Beebo a girl

[slow skiff]

Beebo already has a female voice actor

[eager jackal]

look at her big nose

[slow skiff]

its just the general concensus that people think beebo is male from what i see

[eager jackal]

why are we sexualizing a robot

[eternal forum]

probably in official dev posts etc beebo is a male

[eager jackal]

or is just genderizing?

gendering*?

[eternal forum]

but we can root for Beebo becoming a female so we have better diversification

[eternal forum]

gendering

[slow skiff]

well sure! if thats what youd call it

[wintry zenith]

The fact that you look at Taliyah and think she's a butterface is something else.

I don't know how, but my expectations got even lower.

[slow skiff]

yea its not a normal way to describe someone you like but i digress 😭

[eager jackal]

"the fact you like something for a reason i dont approve makes me think less of you"

interesting take

very diverse train of thought

much progressive

[slow skiff]

well no its because being called "butterface" or "shaped like a fridge" is an insult in every context

[eternal forum]

I dont think Taliyah is actually popularly known for being a "cute/beautiful/hot" female champion, she can be known as that from some parts of the community but I am sure its not the popular opinion

[slow skiff]

u could use it positively but no one else uses it that way

[eager jackal]

well

i did

and i am someone

i think

i might be an ai

who knows

[slow skiff]

right lets be a little obtuse

[wintry zenith]

It's all people like them can do to derail actual concerns to get what they want.

[eager jackal]

you are sounding like a conspiracy theorist now

[latent blade]

So you think that if you walked up to someone and called them a butterface they would be happy with you regarding that comment and find it to be a compliment?

[eager jackal]

"they want to stop me! they derail me! they dont want what i want therefor are enemy!"

[wintry zenith]

You're not helping your case here.

[wintry zenith]

Apparently, yeah.

[eager jackal]

of course not, hence why i wont walk up to taliyah and do that

[wintry zenith]

And Taliyah doesn't even look that bad, which tells me that they think every woman should look like a supermodel.

[eager jackal]

but i like the term butterface, then again english is not my first language

and until now no one complained about it

[latent blade]

Do you understand what it means?

[eager jackal]

non conventionally attractive face?

[latent blade]

"I find that woman to have a pleasing body, but her face..."

[eager jackal]

but then

[latent blade]

butter face

[eager jackal]

why butterface means body

AHHHH

WAT

i thought

[eager jackal]

it was coz of butter

[wintry zenith]

But sure, let's play dumb here when you started spewing some Gamergate nonsense earlier.

[eager jackal]

not coz

but her face

wut

[latent blade]

Yeah lol

[eager jackal]

xddddd

ok

fine

[latent blade]

That why this dude is so confused

[eager jackal]

AHHHH

but why... butter... why not buter wat

...

ok im dumb

[latent blade]

English is fucking weird dude

Terrible language

Especially for idioms

[eager jackal]

i hate you

my favourite word

:(

is dead

[north niche]

someone had to tell u eventually

😭

[wintry zenith]

If anybody tells you that this characters looks ugly, then they have absolutely no right to say that female Hunters should look a specific way.

[eager jackal]

the worst part is

[wintry zenith]

Also, take a look at these comparison photos of the male and female cast made by @potent pier.

[eager jackal]

i thought it sounded kinda smart with my friends who dont speak english

AHHHHHHH

[latent blade]

lmao

[eager jackal]

anyways

thank you luke

i dont hate you

[latent blade]

Anytime

[raven dawn]

This post as a whole It’s just men being offended by a female character’s design without actually knowing what women themselves prefer, or having any real data on what women find offensive. You’re projecting your own opinion instead of considering the perspective of women

[potent pier]

any “this is the only way to make money” argument is in invalid as this game is clearly down the shitter and not making any money

[raven dawn]

If women don’t like a design, they’re fully capable of saying so themselves. They don’t need men to speak on their behalf or act offended for them.

[eager jackal]

so you are saying they need to add even more bunny girls mhmm

[raven dawn]

also u guys are not an authority to say anything about character design

[potent pier]

yes cause all the other women dont touch the games in the first place cause of the oversexualisation lmao

[raven dawn]

so your oppinion == 💩

[potent pier]

i personally know at least 4 women who dont touch videogames if the women are oversexualised

[eager jackal]

personally i know someone that only plays aphelios because of "settphel"

[potent pier]

theyve literally been saying it for decades but people like you write it off as woke garbage

[raven dawn]

your personal circle is not the woman group as a whole

so stop saying bs

[potent pier]

brother did you forget about gamergate

[raven dawn]

this is not even closer to what you are saying

just to you remember
This post as a whole It’s just men being offended by a female character’s design without actually knowing what women themselves prefer, or having any real data on what women find offensive. You’re projecting your own opinion instead of considering the perspective of women

[potent pier]

gamergate was a misogynist movement against women speaking out on the oversexualisation in videogames

[eager jackal]

i think you are confusing people hating on a voice actor and sending hate mail and death threats with the latest supervive patch

[potent pier]

women have been voicing this for decades

it’s people like YOU who are ignoring these voices

[raven dawn]

yes, but this is not a case here

[potent pier]

there have been many women who have voices it in the context of supervive over the years also

this was a common discussion during the beta

[raven dawn]

again
This post as a whole It’s just men being offended by a female character’s design without actually knowing what women themselves prefer, or having any real data on what women find offensive. You’re projecting your own opinion instead of considering the perspective of women

[calm depot]

I try but I'm not here for a lot of it

[potent pier]

and it was often started by women

[eager jackal]

I haven't, and i personally think lots of people take gaming too seriously even women talking about it a lot

[raven dawn]

If women don’t like a design, they’re fully capable of saying so themselves. They don’t need men to speak on their behalf or act offended for them.

[north niche]

something tells me if women made threads like these the push back would be the exact same idk

[raven dawn]

If women don’t like a design, they’re fully capable of saying so themselves. They don’t need men to speak on their behalf or act offended for them.

[potent pier]

yea and they have been saying it for ages holy shit

[eternal forum]

have you heard of the term loud minority

[potent pier]

theres been plenty of these same threads started by women already over the course of this game’s development

[calm depot]

My gf has reacted to both most recent female designs and has had pretty negative views of them

Anecdotal but it's something

[eager jackal]

WATCH OUT! SIGNWAVE KNOWS "What women want"

[potent pier]

it’s just strawman after strawman from you isnt it

[raven dawn]

is your girlfriend the whole set of girls who play supervive?

[calm depot]

Maybe I want more interesting female designs for my own sake (I do)

[slow skiff]

I am a woman but everyone on the discussion thread everyone just assumes im a guy oops

[north niche]

oop clock them

[eager jackal]

This woman only wants to play a cute goth girl that has a witchy skin and throws roots that last 3 seconds

sorry for being misogynistic

[eternal forum]

Maybe the industry discovered that caterig for that extra diversity was not worth it. I dont think it would be bad if industry rewinds a bit on character design. Concord might've settled something in designers

[eager jackal]

and a bad woman apparently

[potent pier]

strawman

[potent pier]

strawman

[slow skiff]

I've been pretty civil in my discussion here and people are replying to my posts with ragebait and strawmanning every normal statement ive had

[potent pier]

your body is a machine that takes valid criticism and churns out strawman arguments

[calm depot]

<@&1169318934902739024> can we just close this thread? Any fruitful or good faith discussion has long been over at this point

[north niche]

yea

[eager jackal]

i agree

lots of angry people

[potent pier]

this is the average discussion on supervive. if it’s anything non gameplay related, you will get strawmanned on repeat. if it’s gameplay related, you will be told it’s a skill issue. no exceptions

[north niche]

folks always gotta ruin any chance of civil discussion

[latent sand]

ive not read it but yea ill close it

[calm depot]

Ty king