#why are there still master/legend restrictions in ranked?

1 messages · Page 2 of 1

wintry sky
#

100% you have to meta slave if you even want to have a chance at carrying Ur team
And sometimes Ur teammates r gonna be uncarriable or maybe they intentionally take Ur champ away

night tusk
#

Lo and behold my team overcommits to a fight in storm for no reason

#

And I get grapple-slammed by a kp half a second into having vision of him

#

The change in agency was more than tangible

wintry sky
night tusk
#

Pretty decent yeah but still hard loses to Shiv and can't chase other melees. Gotta play really well to compete

wintry sky
night tusk
#

Without meat shields to take some aggro any group of 3 vaguely competent players can just bait nade and ape you depending on position

#

The zone was over the lava area (I'm so bad with area names) so I had next to 0 walls for nade and kiting was extremely difficult. Low econ game so I couldn't get the hazard perk

wintry sky
#

Idk it also feels like some periods of time feel almost unplayable
Like for me
morning is okayish you have low quality teammates but enemies are also pretty low quality so you feel like u have some impact
And from like idk 2-3pm+ it feels so unplayable you get slightly better teammates on average but this is also when 2/3 stackers come online and make Ur life utter misery
And super late at night (usually after scrims for me so like 23:30+) lobbies feel sooo good
Teammates actually decent/good and enemies are also pretty decent/good with mostly ppl soloQing

This is at least for me
I can like never climb reliably mid day

#

Ofc it's not always like that but on average from my experience of soloQing for like a few weeks now

wintry sky
night tusk
#

Ye

#

Late at night I got 2 plat players T_T

#

I'm still malding

#

LMAO

wintry sky
#

That's why I like it

#

If ppl also soloQ
SoloQ feels KIND OF fair
(Matchmaking is still messed up and I literally had one game when I was soloQing in legend I literally got in the same team with a friend of mine that's also legend
We literally stomped the lobby
While other legend players with worse luck probably got anything from gold to maybe diamond if lucky )

And this is just aids but it feels a little more fair then ppl duo/3 stacking

night tusk
#

I've been on both ends of that spectrum

#

I've had a squad of 2 masters and we matched with a legend

#

I've alsk been a solo in masters and matched with a bonze and silver (at peak hours)

wintry sky
night tusk
#

I have a lot less time to play than most of the other legend players so when everyone was duo'd I had to try solo once or twice

wintry sky
#

My condolences

#

Very very off track from main thread but like it got most of the attention I hoped for so whatever
How strong do u personally think wukong is soloQ wise strong/fun/ whatever metric u want

earnest root
#

linny the only annoying one cuz he goes idol so his dash is 2 sec cd

night tusk
# earnest root lowk i win vs shiv

I can't wrap my head around how to play against her personally. Lile dodge the first emp shot great, but then she pops ult and gets 2 for free before my dasb is back up

earnest root
clever stump
bronze estuary
cloud phoenix
#

If the Shiv player is good you ain't winning the 1vs1

earnest root
#

idk matchup always felt playable

#

haven't faced bush shiv recently and lord vader is somewhere in china but i think i've 1v1'ed most of the best na shivs at some point

#

if I die it felt like I just executed poorly

cloud phoenix
#

What do you play ?

earnest root
#

ghost with songbow vive infusor

cloud phoenix
#

You on Na ?

earnest root
#

yur

cloud phoenix
#

Unlucky, but yeah ngl Ghost never felt like a problem

earnest root
#

i'm not even that good of a ghost player compared to the ones we have here

#

it's prob bc I play to neutralize rather than kill

#

like they won't die fast but I'll play to just not die and i will always outsustain

#

not super practical in comp or messy soloq fights

#

is what i'll acknowledge^

cloud phoenix
#

I don't know, i just feel like the times where i wasn't able to 1vs3 is usually because either i get greedy and miss play or enemy played well and managed to get a stun on me

earnest root
#

the way i approach it is, i can at least not die to the shiv if I'm not a noob, my team can play the 2v2 and I can escape if they lose

night tusk
# earnest root nade

She counters the impulse with her dash and then out dps's you anyway. She hard stat sticks ghost if she can just hit a shot dude

earnest root
night tusk
#

Man she always has dash up. Ult ain't hitting a hudson nevermind a shiv without a stun

earnest root
#

it's to trade with her ult

#

she either tanks it, commits a dash around, or daggers ig

night tusk
#

There's a lot of shivs that can be winnable against because they're not mechanically up to par, but I think the majority of Legend shivs just roflstomp ghost unless they misplay

#

I just don't see the matchup being any less binary than them fucking up

#

It's her kit design and her abuse of the new items. Shiv should never lose unless she misplays imo

cloud phoenix
#

Ghost ult is not even the equations of the match up

#

You ain't getting value out of it in a 1vs1 outside of just zoning to an extend with the terrain

earnest root
#

just using it as a zone tool basically

#

specifically when she ults

cloud phoenix
#

But even then, it doesn't matter because we get 2 dashes out of the ult

#

And with rocket top boots you get so much space out of each dash

earnest root
#

the original problem was that after she misses the first dash she uses ult to gapclose

#

and if u trade nade she can buffer with a shift from the ult

#

then ghost ult should neutralize the additional ult gapclose

cloud phoenix
#

But you are assuming at that point that the shiv is missing her empowerments
If we go with that approach, you can say that your character/build will beat everyone on any hero

#

But yeah, it only takes her to land the first empowerment to gap close and then you ain't getting away anymore

earnest root
tropic glen
#

I still think this will hurt the game in the long-run

#

Especially with how many 1k+ hour players are quitting currently.

long jay
#

there is no legitimacy in the ranked system right it favors fast characters and the top of the leaderboards dont equate skill it equates the amount of shit youre willing to deal with to not lose points babysitting.

static vessel
#

did you guys play during the time grouping was allowed

#

going back to that would hurt the game just as much or more

desert ridge
#

the problem was back then the skill disparity was WAY too high between players because there were squads with 1000 hours or in general a lot of experience from LIMITED playtests

#

and there were very few of them

#

now there's a lot more squads that all have a chance instead of there being that one squad that just runs the entire server

#

in general theres A LOT more players that are better and can compete than there were back then

vital warren
#

There's already "boosting" via smurfs trio Qing. A boosted legend player would get decimated by an actual legend trio.

More players should be willing to communicate, even with randoms. The problem isn't that the premades are too good, the problem is that premades communicate, randoms don't.

desert ridge
#

you're technically already boosting the people that you get into your team whenever you queue solo q as a Legend player considering there's quite a few times where you get gold/plat players.

static vessel
vital warren
#

See tom kick's stream for example, he's able to communicate with anyone willing to communicate and take advantage of the circumstances to get a win even if his teammates are silver

vital warren
desert ridge
#

This won't happen anymore.

#

Also is this not supposed to be a "team game"? People should look towards finding a team and LFGing instead of restricting people

#

games like apex don't have restrictions so why should this game ?

vital warren
#

Disabling restrictions would bring back a lot of people who have either quit or switched to smurfing with friends. Solo Q legend players would not quit. They are either too ego to quit and will keep going on solo with whatever mm gives them or will give in and find a team

long jay
vital warren
#

If somehow it turns the game to shit it can be reverted

desert ridge
#

well it wasn't for like 95% of people

#

it was mostly just pumpers shitting on the entire server (for EU)

long jay
#

Duo Restrictions squads was the best time

#

and even before that squads was 100x more fun than solo

static vessel
#

im not convinced the skill disparities were just a playtest thing

desert ridge
static vessel
#

people have been playing league for years, if u put a 5 stack into a challenger game they would roll almost every game

long jay
#

Maybe in NA but in EU there isnt a single trio team that will guarantee win every single lobby

desert ridge
#

what ?

long jay
#

if the 5 stack isnt like grandmaster they are getting rolled

static vessel
#

challenger 5 stack

desert ridge
#

well yea of course, but that's a completely different dynamic 😭

#

that's a 5v5 moba

long jay
#

I mean youre just stating the obvious but if you want to balance a team game on the solo experience enjoy your dead game ig?

desert ridge
#

in that game it's pretty simple to balance etc. since most of the game you're sitting in laning phases

#

in this game you're not.

static vessel
#

most team games are balanced around solo experience are they not

#

a game thats only fun to play with people you already know cant sustain a playerbase all that well

long jay
#

Deeprock galatic

#

Helldivers 2

#

just put lfg systems into your game / discord

#

so people can find people their skill level

#

and play

#

its not rocket science

vital warren
#

Even league is miserable as solo

long jay
#

^^^^

vital warren
#

1000 times better when you have a duo

long jay
#

most league players play aram / norms / flex with friends

static vessel
#

like in the current game gm players get put with like diamond and lower, you dont think theres a skill gap between a 3 stack of gm players and 3 random diamonds?

long jay
#

I think there is and I dont think the diamond will win every game but I think if you make it to diamond at that point youre trying to make it higher and the only way youll get tehre is if you play against better players and learn from it

static vessel
#

I think the main thing youll learn is that you should be stacking with other players

long jay
#

Yeah and if you want to hit the top rank of a team game

#

I think that should be acceptable

static vessel
#

and for the gm players, who is gonna want to willingly opt into the disadvantage of having random players

#

more and more gms will be 3 stacking which means more and more lobbies have multiple gm stacks along with 3 random guys who just got off work and have next to no chance of winning

vital warren
static vessel
#

they dont know each other

tropic glen
#

So basically its a good thing that 80% of 1k+ hour players quit because then wherewishescome can have easier lobbies

#

good logic

vital warren
#

I q up solo while putting up an LFG and play solo till someone joins me

tropic glen
#

in league if ur a challenger

#

u dont get matched WITH and AGAINST bronze players bro

#

thats how big the skill gap is between people in these lobbies

#

when im fighting another team

#

all i care about is "who is their legend player?"

#

and once ive killed that legend player, his team is in 99% of cases already out

static vessel
tropic glen
vital warren
tropic glen
#

survivorship bias @static vessel

#

people who quit arent on the top100 leaderboard

#

but if they still played, they would be

vital warren
#

Jk, if you join seupervive discord or look around you'll see that a lot of players that are gm+ are complaining and either quitting or making Smurf accounts

tropic glen
#

People just dont get the chance to play in a teambased environment with them in place, sometimes new faces try scrims but they end on 10-15 points and then quit again, theres also no real way to practice as a team currently outside of scrims

#

it hurts competitive so fucking much and it also doesnt incentivize anyone to que up when they have virtually no teammates whatsoever

#

this game is fully communication based

vital warren
#

Also a lot of people reach legend and then never play for the rest of the season besides scrims or straight up only play scrims

#

Since there's also no decay

tropic glen
#

the least they could do is make it illegal to deafen

static vessel
#

Im not even saying ur wrong im just doubtful u actually have stats that prove that

vital warren
tropic glen
#

They could atleast allow us to DUO in gm and legend

#

i would take that compromise

#

Ive spoken to so many people about the new patch announcement, we all absolutely love it

#

but most of them say "but they didnt remove restrictions, so ill still not play"

#

this patch looks to fix 2 major issues: the armory system and the balancing

#

but the matchmaking will still ruin it unfortunately

#

The difference between this game and league, since that was ur original example, is that league has flex que if you wanna 5man. This game has NOTHING..... @static vessel

#

If u say "Que unranked" as a response to this ur opinion is instantly invalidated fyi

#

sit 40 minutes in que just to get a full bot-game is def not the competitive practice were looking for

#

so inevitably, most of us will go back to not touching the game at all, like it was before 1.0 and only play custom games exclusively

static vessel
#

flex queue isnt exactly known for being popular or competitive

tropic glen
#

maybe respond to anything ive said here

desert ridge
#

flex queue in ANY BR is 10x more competitive

tropic glen
#

what does what u said have to do with anything i said

#

are u ragebaiting me or what

#

the guy literally sat there, read my text and found the 1 thing he can reply to in a smug way

desert ridge
#

the main point he's trying to make is that there's literally no reason for anyone that hit legend to keep playing the game

tropic glen
#

like what is this conversation

desert ridge
#

no fun of playing with friends, no competitive aspect since you can't play with your team.

#

legit 0 reason to EVER even queue if you've hit legend once

tropic glen
#

Casual players all know faker... why? Because hes insanely good at the game, he became the face of league and people aspire to play like him and enjoy watching him compete

#

If faker was involved in supervive, he wouldve quit long ago :)!

earnest root
tropic glen
#

Now if u think thats healthy for the game idk what to tell u

tropic glen
desert ridge
earnest root
static vessel
#

I understand what ur saying but I dont think the solution is to just go back to allowing 3 stacks

tropic glen
#

I encounter aidanby in my soloque and i know that the moment he dies his team is out

#

same gos for me

desert ridge
#

I don't think that's a problem of legend stacks at that point, more of a problem that the mm system shouldn't even allow "casual players" to be in lobbies with full stack legends or any legends at all

tropic glen
#

i end games on 9 resurrects and if i ever die my team doesnt repay me the favor

#

if people are bad at the game they are bad at the game

#

they already have bonuses thrown their way

#

its time to make ranked actually ranked

static vessel
#

if you check the the comments from justjob he offered a few possible options that might help

desert ridge
tropic glen
#

but theyve softlocked their game out of having content creators and a competitive scene by doing this

#

madmagical had that entire talk with them, which they reponded positively to

#

i hope next time he can also bring this issue up

#

because que restricions are 80% of the reason we dont see new faces ever

vital warren
static vessel
#

Im just not sure what to tell u when you play a team game and dont want to deal with teammates

tropic glen
vital warren
#

It's also a skill to be able to follow instructions

tropic glen
#

thats my whole argument

#

i dont have teammates bro

#

they are NPCs

desert ridge
#

but they're literally just wrong by saying this

image.png
#

I just saw this

tropic glen
#

why do i have to play babysitter whenever i que up

long jay
desert ridge
#

they're still stuck in OB launch

tropic glen
#

dota system worked

#

that would unironically be decent

vital warren
#

Someone who can give instructions along with someone who follows instructions should and will always beat two random egomaniacs doing their own thing

desert ridge
#

which is just wrong

#

like they legit played scrims

#

and went like what 7-9th

#

😭

tropic glen
#

what is this PTSD decision

desert ridge
#

this is exactly where I said bro that scrim data would help istg

#

maybe them seeing pumpers end bottom half

#

would open their fucking eyes

#

that there's other good players than just ChipSa

desert ridge
tropic glen
#

@sudden stag The reason @long jay @tardy apex and me even bothered to ever invest this much time into the game is because we got shit on by pumpers and then had the motivation to reach a similar skill-level. Now there is 0 grind incentive, everyone describes the "Top-Lobbies" as mickey mouse gameplay and sandbox / arcade.

desert ridge
#

yep literally same

tropic glen
#

Back then unranked and ranked players were put in the same lobbies keep in mind

#

the first 4-5 days of 1.0 release felt so healthy

#

there were no bad teams in the lobby

desert ridge
#

started beginning of OB solo q 1000 games literally just walking into a wall

#

fighting pumpers

tropic glen
#

everyone was 3stacking

#

the lobbies were competitive

#

even with shiv and wukong fully overtuned, we all HAD FUN

desert ridge
#

was actual cinema

#

shit is burned into my memory bro shit was so much fun

uneven talon
#

Ancient lore wow...

tropic glen
#

i cant be asked trying to argue about this anymore, im also not gonna throw out random threats of "If u dont do this the game will die!!"

vital warren
#

The comms in the game are like 50% or more of the fun in higher elosn

tropic glen
#

i just urge you to genuinely consider the negative effects the que restrictions are having on ur game @ devs

#

star upvote the message cus they read this apparently

uneven talon
#

Who remembers Pumpers vs TLD rivalry

desert ridge
uneven talon
#

Pepperidge farm remembers

desert ridge
#

this is like opening an ancient scroll

static vessel
#

I dont think anyone disagrees that games are more fun with ur friends

uneven talon
#

Not even ancient by my standards

#

I still feel like this all was just months ago

#

Thanks to covid ruining my perception of time

#

Forever

vital warren
earnest root
tropic glen
#

Wow people in high ranks are really good at the game shocking

#

we must debuff them as much as possible asap

#

can u imagine im so good at minigolf that they give me a +2 for every single hole whenever i play, so now i have to consistantly hit hole in 1s to even remotely compete???

#

thats what the game feels like to me

earnest root
desert ridge
vital warren
earnest root
vital warren
#

90% of callouts to non legends is when they should and should not engage

desert ridge
tropic glen
#

new player resources was a big part of magicals talk

earnest root
#

right now, we simply don't have that playercount and I don't think sacrificing the experience of any groups in the already dwindling pool is the answer

desert ridge
#

so might aswell do something to retain at least the players that have ALREADY spend houndreds of hours in the game no ?

static vessel
#

I value keeping the game alive, I dont think a game can survive without a healthy solo playerbase

tropic glen
desert ridge
tropic glen
#

Instead of fixing the core issues

desert ridge
#

they don't have restrictions yet they're doing pretty good

earnest root
# desert ridge well the problem is players are leaving on both sides of the spectrum

yea the way I see it is that top level players who are more dedicated to the teamplay aspect or have skills in the teamplay aspect such that they can igl a diverse range of players should be rewarded, and players who seek to play the game competitively and experience that by playing with someone of equal skill are able to do so, but have some restrictions to prevent that from being the "best way to play" or most optimal/easiest to climb (aka by just playing highly mechanical champions and steamrolling the lobby) <- I think this specifically was a symptom of duo squads

tropic glen
#

NO U DO. NOT.

static vessel
tropic glen
#

People are quitting the game because its so unfun

#

like what are u saying here LOL

#

it would be fair if EVERYONE was limited to solo

#

but only putting that burden on high MMR is insane

earnest root
#

i think making the experience enjoyable for both sides is extremely hard as well

tropic glen
#

if i get bastard chased by a 3man squad on their skysharks while i get 2 gold teammates, idk what to tell u but the review on steam is negative for sure

earnest root
#

but I also think that older players are more likely to come back if the system benefits their experience, as opposed to vice versa

for what it's worth i kind of disagree with the dev justifications i've seen for changes that incentivize new player retention when it feels like they have been wishy-washy about verifying that

tropic glen
#

keep in mind im still master

#

i dont even bother trying to climb all my games are just full arcade cookup whatever meme build i can

#

this is high level ranked btw

#

kappa

tardy apex
#
  1. If you are worried about boosting, please remove the ability for GM/Legend elo players to be paired with low elo players.

You are outwardly incentivizing boosting by pairing bronze players with legend players.

The soloqueue experience is one that makes all but a few of your top players leave - if they haven't left, they've created smurfs so they can 3 stack.

  1. You are worried about pulling a single 3rd low rank into a legend lobby - you quite literally have the opposite (legend players being pulled into low ranks) and somehow that is okay?
static vessel
desert ridge
#

eventually this card will run out of uses for sure

tardy apex
tropic glen
#

i cant take hearing this absolute vomit take every single time

tardy apex
#

If you can't provide a ranked ladder that has integrity, maybe don't do it!

earnest root
#

flame me flame me

tropic glen
#

We cant make the game better because we dont have the playcount to support it

#

good statement

static vessel
#

you can call it an excuse but that doesnt change that the problem exists

tropic glen
tropic glen
#

your takes heavily enforce the doomer mentality in me

earnest root
earnest root
tropic glen
#

Cant do this because game has low playcount...
We would do this... but we first need to stabilize the CCU!
Once we have a good playcount... this will happen.

#

whats really hurting the game is that most veterans hate the game and dont bother recommending it to friends

#

and why would they after the experiences they have

bronze estuary
#

yea i mean i recommned this game if you want to dumb 50-200 hours into it

#

but past that hours

#

theres legit nothing to do

desert ridge
bronze estuary
#

at that point you cant play ranked with friends anymore

#

comp scene is non existent

tropic glen
#

Whole game is made for those initial 100 hours of gameplay

bronze estuary
#

^^

desert ridge
bronze estuary
#

no BR game that i know of has restrtictions

desert ridge
#

800 eur tournaments

#

👍

bronze estuary
#

holy 800 whole euros

tardy apex
#

Crazy how we got promised a game that has 10,000 hours of depth and got 100 instead

bronze estuary
tropic glen
#

How the fuck can u ever have a competitive scene or content creators

desert ridge
tropic glen
#

when nobody can que with eachother or practice as a 3man

#

the game shoots itself in the foot so hard

desert ridge
#

even the 800 eur tournaments get split to like 150 a person

#

which just ends up being basically a nothing burger

tropic glen
#

all because it wants to virtue signal for the "soloque players"

tardy apex
#

Also when the ranked ladder has no integrity btw

tropic glen
#

so we all have to become soloque players apparently

static vessel
desert ridge
#

because most GM/Legend players can literally organize times when they would play

long jay
#

The queue times for legend are already 15+ mins

desert ridge
#

and it'd make those queue times a lot better

tardy apex
#

If restrictions were lifted, more GM+ players would still be playing the game

long jay
#

Idk the meta is kinda just smurf and play with friends for me

tardy apex
#

I've resorted to soloqueue no fill because I can't be fucked elo boosting random silvers because TCG says I have to

long jay
#

i have 0 interest playing solo

tardy apex
#

And that makes me want to jump abyss irl (in rocket league)

earnest root
#

I think relying on an already small population is kinda chung

tropic glen
#

Ok just to close this up:

Next wednesdays patch looks very promising, this might be THE BEST patch we have ever had in terms of balance changes and global system tweaks, the team has clearly shown that they can respond to feedback and implement amazing changes.

The pressing issue for veterans still remains: We cannot que together and the teammates we are matched with dont make the game worth playing. Atleast 50% of the game is communication reliant and the changes youve made over the last 4-5 months have all tried to bridge this gap but only ended up hurting competitive, while not bringing in any other retention. Please remove the restrictions or atleast let us DUOQUE in high ranks. @sudden stag

earnest root
#

or the second some of the better players drop whcih in turn affects match quality so you slowly drop your standards of gm player to master player and then oh other people don't really enjoy playing in these lobbies as much

earnest root
static vessel
#

I wouldnt mind if they did a test run of removing restrictions but the community would have to be open to that test resulting in the same restrictions

tardy apex
#

I would just instantly quit if they decided to keep the restrictions

#

Because at least then they've engaged with it and said "this game isn't ever going to be competitive and our ranked ladder is never going to have integrity"

bronze estuary
#

It's just the argument that it only affects to top people is true

#

But then as the season goes on more and more people hit the point of restrictions

#

And the quality of the ranked games gets lower and lower since no good players play anymore

tropic glen
#

The whole game has become a individual 1v1s fiesta unfortunately

#

teamplay is not incentivized at all anymore

tardy apex
#

But I can't in good faith ever recommend this game to any friends who are looking for depth, they will climb the ladder and what will their reward be?

The inability to play with the friends they climbed with?

Why?

Because Theorycraft says that now you have to boost low elo players instead.

static vessel
#

Im not sure what your definition of a competitive and ranked ladder is

tardy apex
#

Probably one where the highest rank and the lowest rank can't be put into the same game

#

Let's start there

static vessel
#

does that happen?

tardy apex
#

Literally yes

#

The mmr and rank disparity is disgusting

static vessel
#

can you show me a recent example of an actual bronze player put with a gm?

#

cuz I do not think thats happening

tardy apex
#

See this

#

Literally in this thread btw

#

I have no idea why you think that's not happening

wintry sky
#

I love matchmaking
You ether get another legend player on Ur team or I get 2 gold players and below while some other team gets that legend player

static vessel
#
  1. wasnt that before they made some matchmaking changes? 2. were those players actually bronze or high mmr players coming back to the game
wintry sky
tardy apex
#

They are no names, bronze players

wintry sky
#

I mean they weren't absolutely awful but the lobby was also pretty easy since it was filled with players like them

#

Next to 0 awarenesses

static vessel
#

u dont have to be a big name to have high mmr

tardy apex
#

When I say no name, I mean unrecognisable to anyone who is high elo

#

Nobody knows their name

#

They aren't returning players

#

You can almost immediately tell if someone is smurfing

wintry sky
#

I also showed the results of that game
If they were smurfing or something like that it would show in the damage section

#

I almost had double my shrike and wukong is NOT a DPS hunter

static vessel
#

theres always gonna be a tradeoff between queue times and ranks, bronze seems like a bit much but I believe there have been changes since then

tardy apex
#

Back the the dogwater ccu take

#

Godbless

#

Good chat

tropic glen
#

another thing to mention is theorycraft continuously stating "Were in it for the long run" yet they make many changes that only benefit the game temporarily and hurt it in the long-run (Trios, Que restrictions)

#

But im hopeful for the future, from what ive heard their philosophy has changed quite a bit in these recent days, new patch preview looks great and ive heard theyre taking new initiatives at marketing and player retention, so i still believe!

static vessel
tardy apex
static vessel
tropic glen
#

Competitively it was a terrible change

#

Comp variety, Balance, Teamfighting, Skill expression

#

all lessened immensely with the change

#

i enjoyed duo-squads restrictions aswell

#

solo-trios is worse

tardy apex
#

They didn't even balance the game around trios

#

They just changed it to trios

tropic glen
#

Dunks do NOT belong in trios

#

in squads it was fine because a 3v4 is more doable than a 2v3

tardy apex
#

Ye next patch looks like a banger

#

Can't wait to play with m- ohhhh wait

static vessel
tropic glen
#

so im not sure what ur getting at here

deep plaza
#

As a scrubby diamond-master player who played both when there were ranked restrictions and when they weren't, I just want to provide some perspective.
Legends being able to stack queue was a terrible experience because even if you could outplay someone who was clearly mechanically much better than you, it wouldn't matter whatsover because their teammate would run in and destroy you anyways.
While I do admit that there is some loss of strategic depth without comms with other players, the alternative here is also loss of strategic depth in the sense where the skill difference between these legend stacks and everyone else is so large that you can just run down the whole lobby just through pure mechanical outplay.
With the current restrictions, while some of the strategic depth is just impossible to experience especially in terms of teamplay, at least you can try to improve on your solo play, especially when facing off against other solo legends (although this is admittedly not as fun)

tropic glen
#

If i was legend and i could que up with 2 average players, the experience is still much more enjoyable than a full soloque

#

I would prefer having 2 communicating plat players over a deafened and muted legend in my team even

#

So what if they restricted legends from queing with other legends, wouldnt this be a good solution to the shark-tank lobbies, win-win for everyone

static vessel
tropic glen
desert ridge
tropic glen
#

the problem is ampower is right

#

you cannot pretend he isnt

desert ridge
#

the whole point was that ur not able to queue with friends/your team

deep plaza
tropic glen
#

for a solo player whose not very experienced, the game is a nightmare if restrictions are lifted

desert ridge
#

😭

tropic glen
#

I enjoy playing with new players, aslong as theyre in my VC

desert ridge
deep plaza
#

I think legends with diamond and below is fine, since honestly you could get to master just playing placement anyways

tropic glen
#

Ive been hitting the "LF +1" allot lately and i just play with whoever shows up, many of them are not very good but the enjoyment i get from simply talking and joking with them heavily outweighs what i would feel in soloque

static vessel
deep plaza
#

So the arguments of boosting isnt really that valid

tropic glen
#

it still wont fix the issue that no new competitive players / teams are being formed

#

but atleast it would help high rank retention in ranked

#

Earlier today i had a game with 2 super nice teammates, i spent the game communicating with them and calling rotations etc, just to get wukong abyss slammed, thats honestly been one of the main issues with the game until now

#

Getting out-cheesed has been to prevalent for soloque to ever be fun

#

once i died they werent able to resurrect me, they added me and asked if i wanna play another and i was forced to share the news to them about the rank restrictions

#

So yea, they def hurt connections in the long run heavily.

deep plaza
#

Yup, I think its quite valid. It's not a perfect solution since these restrictions would seem oddly specific and would have to be constantly reviewed, but I think it would be a better experience for high elo players

clever stump
# static vessel going back to that would hurt the game just as much or more

There were times back then where'd there would be 4 or so legend 4 stacks but I got actually good teammates. I was then able to match them. And rn, most of the people at the higher level woukd stack anyways so most high level games would just be stacks anyways.

Even if they do have an advantage, I don't think said advantage is high enough to be an issue.

warm elbow
#

I can only say look at Hotbiscuit Squad doing Beta literally nb could match them lol

wintry sky
#

It's been months already
Ppl got a lot better now then before

#

It wouldn't be such a stomp anymore

strong ridge
#

people caught up

#

biscuit squad aint a good example bc at the time they had so much exp compared to almost everyone else

#

it was not related to "legends can squad up with other legends" cause another squad of legends couldn't win against them

#

now legends are fairly equal in level

warm elbow
#

I think they just dont care anymore tbh they could if they actually want to but yh the Game changed since than

desert ridge
#

ChipSa himself said it 100% wouldn't be such a stomp anymore

warm elbow
#

I havent really watched the EU Scrims atm, but yh could be true tho. I cant actually tell cause most of the top people dont play Ranked that often anymore if they actually play it lol

bronze estuary
#

but yea the level of play atleast at the bottom end has caught up

#

i dont think the top teams really have gotten much better but i think there is now alot more teams who can actually compete with the top teams nowadays

warm elbow
#

Yh but for me ur squad r the goats of the game maybe people caught up but doesnt matter imo just because of time they needed to get to the point u guys were at the beginning of the game yk what i mean. But thats just my opinion on it people can have different opinions

tardy apex
#

You're entitled to your opinion, it's just wrong

bronze estuary
#

im afraid he is right

#

he knows

tardy apex
#

Also this talking point is omega giga dogwater because if they actually have a system where bronze players don't fight legend players, nobody will care about running into a legend 3 stack

#

Apparently this take is hotter than lava

night tusk
#

Man do we need to bring back all of the posts from OB launch about Legend 4 stacks making the game completely unplayable for the average joe?

#

Even after restrictions 2 stacks were able to 2v4 teams of average players

#

It's either we get a bad game right now or the majority of others do. I'd happily take the bad game until something gets done about the dwindling ccu

tardy apex
#

But that's the issue.

Everyone gets a ranked ladder that has no integrity.

If you are saying that it isn't possible to provide a ranked ladder with integrity - why provide one in the first place?

The whole "someone has to suffer" is the ultimate cope.

You are actively saying that you want games that are less balanced skill wise, in favour of queue times in the name of retention.

You neglect the fact that retention at the top end is dwindling too and that ranked restrictions, done correctly, would bring a lot of the top end back, without affecting those who aren't low elo (and in fact, improving their experience because they wouldn't be paired with a random legend on the enemy team, slaughtering them)

#

Stop coping with CCU

tardy apex
tardy apex
night tusk
#

Oop I guess I missed some info

#

My B I just woke up

#

When I typed that

verbal vortex
#

People have suggest duo no fill for legend or like a negative rp multiplier if you duo like 0.33x rp gains if you duo in legend. The main reason for the second one is that so it’s still competitively viable since you still have to solo q to reach top ranks

#

Thoughts?

#

I also think allowing just normal duo q is pretty bad because it forces people to duo up to play high rank/ achieve high rank

clever stump
vital warren
#

higher ante for duo/trio could also work

wintry sky
#

but how are these guys getting outperformed by like gold teammates xD

image.png
#

get me out

wintry sky
tropic glen
#

just give solo players a different rank alltogether atp

#

same lobbies same matchmaking

#

but if u que solo u get points for a different rank, like solo / flex

#

imagine flexing soloque legend

#

its just more impressive than flex no?

#

the games matchmaking isnt based on rank but mmr anyway so

#

this would work well

#

and then u can limit legend to duo so that solos can get in same games with them occasionally

#

holy banger

vital warren
#

I fail to see how this makes any sense or solves anything

desert ridge
#

😭

#

I guess you can have ur goat squad or whatever but acting like the other teams "needed more time" is just kinda wrong.

bronze estuary
#

You'll never reach the height of pumpers

desert ridge
bronze estuary
#

It's ok being the best isn't for everyone

desert ridge
tawny island
#

dumbest post i've ever read

desert ridge
frail willow
#

were not in OB anymore

#

were only 1-2 teams would stomp all lobbies

tawny island
desert ridge
# tawny island gm/legend is the top 50, in a game with 36 player per game with mixted rank you ...

ok well, first of all, gm/legend isn't only top 50. Legend itself is top 100 and GM is technically an unlimited amount. The whole point is that through not having any more restrictions the ranked ladder itself would get more competitive than it is right now which is just a shit fest because most of the top players can't be bothered solo qing when they get 2 silver teammates on their team. Also what are legend players supposed to do since you're saying they "grief the game for lower players" while just queueing ranked ? Do you expect everyone that's just good at the game to just not queue at all anymore ? It's not gm/legend players fault that the mm system is just pretty bad. Allowing Legend/GM while also restricting it so the only players in a high elo lobby HAVE to be master+ to even be matched together would make a lot of the veterans who have quit come back and a lot of the players who are actually good at the game return. Because of this you literally just have a more competitive ranked ladder. Playing as a team or even joining a team is what should be pushed more, through an in-game lfg system people would be able to find teams to play with.

#

This game should never cater to "solo q", it's a team BR game, not league of legends.

tawny island
# desert ridge ok well, first of all, gm/legend isn't only top 50. Legend itself is top 100 and...

I'm top 100 as a master 4 and actually gm legend is top 50 in europe. The mm system is bad cause you can't balance a game with 36 players per game and a low hype. This system is sht cause there is too much players per game you just CANT balance it, like you need every legends in queue to fill a whole game. You being able to duo farm silvers or even plats in every lobby don't make it competitive you know.

#

Just do scrims

desert ridge
#

Also you can for sure balance it

#

once again a game like this CANNOT cater to solo q and actually survive

#

it's a team BR game

tawny island
desert ridge
desert ridge
#

I, as I am sure most of the EU comp scene could make an alt and rank up to gm in a couple of days to a week

#

and eitherway people in higher ranks are more coordinated

#

we would for sure be able to basically make hours where we all queue ranked

#

and have at the very least 2-4 hours a day where queues would be populated

#

and actually more competitive and challenging

tardy apex
#

CCU is such an omega fucking cope because if you are talking about removing the TOP 100-200 players from the pool of everyone else, how is that such a huge loss for the rest of the playerbase when they

  1. shouldn't be in the same lobbies as the top 100-200 players anyway
    &
  2. the integrity of EVERYBODY'S games goes way up because they are fighting people that are closer to their skill level
  3. top players are consistently LEAVING the game because they can no longer play with friends
  4. top players rewards for playing the game should not be "you are now forced to elo boost random low elo players" - it removes the depth from the game that they are actively seeking
#

the BEST days of 1.0 so far were the first few days, where none of the top players faceed those restrictions, but were still in the same lobbies with each other, facing other 3 stacks

#

and low and behold, now that those players have hit restrictions again?

#

leaving in droves

tropic glen
tropic glen
#

and master is also affected

#

again, survivorship bias takes

#

what is it with yall man

tardy apex
#

I need to do a master thread on this

#

because the cope is just too much

#

like every cope angle has already been answered

#

but people are pretending that these takes are new

#

or that we aren't account for nuance

tropic glen
#

"I need to play with my friends because they are good and i want to steamroll the lobby!!!" has never been the case btw

#

the issue is 80% of the game is communication based

#

so i only want to play with people who are in my voicechat

#

they can be the worst players ever i dont mind

#

just let people que together and limit that legends / grandmasters cannot que with eachother

#

that way people make connections

#

ive been queing with randoms from the "LFT" categories for weeks now and its such a enjoyable experience even if some of them are just genuinely bad

#

bad player i can talk to >>>>> deafened and muted legend player

#

and then the current soloque system is bad player whose also deafened and muted

#

theres ur summary

#

@tawny island

desert ridge
#

idk this doesn't really fix the problem you're trying to fix

#

this is basically just fixing it for yourself but a lot of people who quit won't want to just queue with any rando that has a mic

digital comet
#

devs could just test duoq on gm+ at least right? if doesnt go well just revert on hotfix next week

tardy apex
#

"soloqueue players would be fucked over by people 3 stacking in high elo"

high elo players (I am not talking gold @ 5% btw- I am talking about GM/Legend players) are typically in discords where they can group up and communicate outside of games.

People are frustrated with 3 stacks because they are organized over voice comms.
High elo players will be organized over voice comms whether they use 3rd party software like discord or use ingame voice comms.

ALSO if 3 people are queueing soloqueue, into 3 stacks - how do these 3 players not just get matched together?

tawny island
#

spoiler you only queue in your server

#

devs dont care about 50-100 players per servers you won't be able to duo farm silver with your top 50 friend and if they allows you this the game will die faster than you think and you will just farm bots

tardy apex
#

I don't think anyone wants high elo players to be able to queue into silvers

tawny island
tardy apex
#

Nobody is asking for a legend exclusive queue - legend in any region is the top 100 players - that doesn't even make 3 lobbies

#

However, if you remove restrictions - top end players are likely to return to the game because the ranked ladder will be more competitive.

A more competitive ladder, with tighter restrictions will increase the integrity of ranked games for everyone.

Master/GM/legend players won't be forced to eloboost lower elo players and lower elo players won't get slapped about by the random legend players in their lobbies

tawny island
#

Its not the top 100, its just not true xd not even top 50 in NA, and in europe I'm master 4 and top 100.

image.png
#

If you remove restrictions few top players will return and 90% of the plats you farm will leave 👍

tardy apex
#

And thus you get to the second part of the equation!

Don't have legend players fighting platinum players!

#

Very hard fix

viscid sky
#

Don't worry this will be fixed when all of the players come and the matchmaking algo can build lobbies of comparable skill instead of having to mix skill levels so much

#

Until population isn't an issue devs should just turn ranked off and have a single queue to ensure better queue health

tardy apex
#

"oh no but queue times"

Great, ramp up the queue times for higher elo players and give us quality games instead of making us babysit low ranks

tardy apex
tawny island
# tardy apex Very hard fix

I already get 10 min queue with plats in the lobby, you just act like its not a dead game but it is, asking for a magical matchmaking

tardy apex
#

If you can't provide a ranked ladder with integrity... Don't!

viscid sky
#

Players all say they want a longer queue time but they actually don't and their decisions and actions reflect that after a 20 minute queue

#

Even if you are the one that could have the patience for it, many others do not

#

It's a hard fact / truth of matchmaking engineering

#

Either way- turn off ranked until the queue health is better and just push everyone to a single queue

#

That way lobby health improves with a smaller pop

#

Plus solves the issue of people wanting to play together

tardy apex
tardy apex
viscid sky
#

Either that or have like 3 / 5 hours hours of ranked mm every Friday, Saturday, and Sunday to ensure that players who are interested are all logging on and playing at the same times

#

Given that the game is losing players they will have to get a bit creative

tardy apex
#

The irony is, pushing everyone to a single queue without addressing MMR puts everyone back in the same place in OB.

tardy apex
tawny island
tardy apex
#

Well, what's the difference?

#

If I queue now, the quality of team mates I get is dogwater

#

Why queue?

#

Why am I conscripted to community service

#

And forced to elo boost

tawny island
#

Don't queue and scrim its a dead game

tardy apex
#

Like nice one, they're just bleeding players from the top end

tawny island
#

Its how it works on dead games

tardy apex
#

I already do scrim

viscid sky
#

I would be interested to hear JustJob share the CCU numbers per region on what the # of players needed in ranked queue is for a healthy mm

tardy apex
#

I would like to hear that too

#

I doubt we ever get that info though

viscid sky
#

Because I am pretty certain it is quite high

tardy apex
#

Game is currently tanking anyway, if the ladder has no integrity anyway, why stop players from queueing together btw

#

Because we can't pretend it's about integrity or preserving a standard

tawny island
#

Cause you make noobs rage quit

#

And uninstall ?

tardy apex
#

If there are more three stacks playing, why would they not be facing each other

tawny island
#

Because its a dead game

#

Hope it helps !

tardy apex
#

Take the first few days of 1.0 for example.

Those were some of the most competitive games of supervive I've played, the MMR wasn't reset, so it was all 3, stack legend/GM players fighting each other.

#

It literally can function if there are enough top end players playing

#

What happened once the top players hit the restrictions?

#

Bye bye supervive

#

Game bleeds players from the top end!

viscid sky
#

We would need the internal data on that one. I'm not certain that is a meaningful loss of players

#

Probably doesn't help, but I do not think it actively hurts that much in comparison to other areas of drain

tardy apex
#

I still believe it's a point that should be tackled, it's a cycle where people hit restrictions and dip

inner dirge
#

I have like a 90% wr in ranked by queueing later than everyone else

#

(Thats an exaggeration its prolly like 70% but point stands)

viscid sky
#

Maybe more like 93%

#

😼

inner dirge
#

I've played too much random shit for it to be good

#

Ranked based restrictions are kinda useless if the community wishes to circumvent them tbh

#

I can just queue as 3 and get the same games

tardy apex
#

Indeed

dull hawk
viscid sky
#

Do the larger battle royale games have queue restrictions at the higher levels?

dull hawk
#

Don't know to be honest it's the only br i play. Played fortnite before ranked so no restriction was needed.

#

But for me if restriction was the real problem. Then normal game would naturaly become the most played game mode (only mod without restriction) in reality every time i tried to play normal game the past week, i was stuck in at minimum 20 minute queue feeling like there is 2 lobby per hours and only chispa squad was here. Where are all the gm player that want to plays with their friend? Do player want to play with friend or the matchmaking force them to do so to enjoy game? What i know is that the current systeme isn't fun but not sur about removing restriction to me it will worsen the game state maybe im wrong tho.

mystic light
tiny lotus
tawny island
mystic light
long jay
#

So many quit at legend or straight up uninstalled because no one wants to play a BR solo

tawny island
#

And they don't want you in your game at all but the game is dead so you are able to queue alone with them

#

They don't want you in their game*

dull hawk
# long jay There would be more high elo players playing and therefore less casual players i...

Yeah some legend quit the game after reaching that rank but if you compare to the player that actualy leave the game even before having the restriction (or even ranked) prove that there is a way bigger problem than 150 player being restricted to solo. Balancing game at high elo is super hard because master duo with master diamond either duo with master or trio ect... Then legend are left forced to play with low elo player to have matching mmr in the same lobby (same goes to the duo master who often have silver/gold as last player) and every one is sad at the end cause it isn't even competitive anymore and luck based praying to have decent teamate and not facing a good trio. For me the best ways to solve matchmaking is either force soloq or remove ranked. If people doesnt like soloQ then they would move to normal game then just remove ranked if that happens until having more player and focus on other game mode maybe like having proper Arena or new game mode that would make the game better for the futur.

wintry sky
tardy apex
#

True

wide iris
#

nah

#

remove restrictions

#

then high elos start to actually play the game

#

and start making streams

#

and then bring new players to the game

#

and make a community around it

#

with restricitions theres no interesting content on social media

#

because

#

high elos are not playing to make the content

#

or even the "try hard" ones because they cant

#

removing the restriction it's the right way

#

and somehow make the queue work with it idk

#

restrictions is bad

tropic glen
clever stump
#

I remember that 1 day when all the active vcs in this discord just vanished... was a sad day

long jay
#

I think the best part tho is the community still stuck together we just play other games together now

#

Like we hit the arkheron playtest into league clash into drinking & gambling into arkheron playtest 2 into UFC fights

night tusk
#

Something like League's clash but operating every week or two could go super super hard.

wide iris
tropic glen
#

restrictions not lifted

#

we have the best patch of all time and none of us veterans will bother to touch the game

#

gg

#

My solution would be making Group ques time restricted every day

#

make it from 18:00 - 24:00 or something

#

that way 3manners dont turbostomp during hours where the matchmaking isnt as tight

wide iris
#

gonna play 4 games with new character then get thrash talked by some gold elo with giant ego then quit and wait until scrim to actually play the game again 6 games and then wait for other entire week to be able to play the game in the weekend again

clever stump
# tropic glen restrictions not lifted

I would not be surprised if they are looking into something that isn't just "lifting restrictions". Would not be surprised if they team mode thing that people have suggested is what they end up doing.

tropic glen
#

the seupervive community was hanging by a thread and waiting another 2 weeks cuts that thread unfortunately

#

none of these people will return

clever stump
#

A lot of them di really like the game so I honestly think they would. But it has been taking them too long to do something about this honestly.

tropic glen
#

to me its just them showcasing they dont want real player engagement because not a single higher elo players enjoys this

#

and being master in this game isnt even high elo, ive had the most clueless master teammates ever that started playing the game like 1 week prior

#

if it was only legend thats limited atleast

#

i just think we need a party que time rotation every day

clever stump
wide iris
#

#1400716744003420200 !!!!!

rain owl
#

Tbh this game is a team game and if allowing trios for high elo allowed for tighter matchmaking and high elo players would guarantee play more then it could maybe work

#

Something tells me that it wouldn’t really fix ques as much as we would like

tropic glen
#

the communication around this is the issue for me

#

and the fact that we have big streamers like jankos, dendi etc playing together with tom kick, aidanby

#

and aidan and tom are forced to go on smurfs 😭 😭

#

terrible system that punishes anyone dedicated to the game

#

especially if they dont smurf (like me)

bronze estuary
#

its just a question of the many vs the few

#

it sucks for us

#

but like at the end of the day high elo isnt the focus right now

#

even though i think you can have your cake and eat it to in this case

rain owl
#

^

#

High elo is a small percentage of the overall base

#

But as the game number dwindles these players become more important so it’s hard

#

I’m sure they are trying to find a workaround

#

They’ve done a lot of good changes quickly

spring spade
#

my two cents about the subject, i play supervive 99% of the time with my friends because that's how i have fun with it, solo Q is usually a mess - people don't communicate, they talk shit, they blame even when it's their fault, nothing new, right?
as i play with my friends, we are slowly climbing ranks and soon we won't be able to queue together anymore. main reason why we still can play together is because we mostly mess around in games and don't tryhard (we just have fun) so we lose a little bit of RP sometimes, but we are still climbing
i'd play unranked only BUT we cannot find many games in unranked and when we do, after waiting around 15-30 minutes, it's full of bots and new players and the games aren't fun at all, so we are basically forced to queue ranked
i really don't want to keep playing when queues take forever to find games and i can't play with my friends, if it gets to that point i might have to quit the game and go play something else, we certainly won't lack options
for more context, my friends and I range around platinum-diamond, almost masters, which means i'll be forced to sack one of them and duo. i play on SA servers which heavily lacks players, NA and EU have a lot more
sorry for the wall of text xd i just wanted to talk about these frustrations and concerns i have

tropic glen
#

if more people were interested in the game, especially with the league marketing, it would not be few people in higher elos

wide heart
#

ye imma just quit the game

spring spade
#

so yeah, i got to the point where i can no longer play with my friends, it's joever for me 🙁
if only we could find quality and fast games in unranked, we could still play together

inner orbit
tardy apex
#

Oh what's that? You just hit Grand Master? 🎺🎺🎺🎉🎉🎉🎉🏆

  • 10,000 hours community service (TCG sanctioned elo boosting)
    -- You can no longer queue with friends
    -- aura
  • GM glider
  • OG glider
  • L
  • Ratio
  • Vegan wisp
amber rock
#

what if normal games have its own rank like TFT's hyper roll game mode? so 3 staccers can enjoy the pleasure of ranking up with friends and the newbies can just play ranked.

no new game modes, no halved queue times.

vital warren
#

So yeah, normals already have their own mmr and it solves nothing

amber rock
#

ohh

#

so that's why normal queue takes longer on my main account

viscid sky
#

Well it does solve stuff. Just not for high mmr players wanting to play with friends

#

There is no solve for that

vital warren
viscid sky
#

Well that is actually a sign that it is working quite well

vital warren
viscid sky
#

It solves it in the sense that it keeps high mmr players in games associated with their mmr. If they are swapping accounts, that is not something that the matchmaker can solve readily because it is circumventing the matchmaker.

TC's rating system does find someone's appropriate mmr quite fast, normally under 10 games would be my guess.

Again- There is no solve for high mmr players wanting to stack and play together because the population for the game isn't large enough to make appropriate skilled matches.

lean swan
vital warren
lean swan
#

Seems a bit of a broken system. :(

vital warren
#

No way it's perfectly designed why would you say such a thing

lean swan
#

Ur right, it's just like the armory system. Perfection

vital warren
#

Exactly and all hunters are perfectly balanced and all able to 1v1 each other

lean swan
#

Yea that's why they removed soloq mode

#

Too perfect

viscid sky
#

It's just a population issue- Game's matchmaker and rating system are likely well reasoned and work well, but lack the adequate number of players to function

lean swan
#

Yea idk how idk try to problem solve matchmaking for a lower pop. Like you said, probably would work just fine if there were enough players

viscid sky
#

There really isn't a way to solve it

#

The skill bands are not padded enough to make appropriate matches

#

The better solution is to try to set specific queue hours so that players are all logged on at that time period and queueing

#

EG: 6 pm - 10 pm are team queue hours, log on to play!

#

Might encourage more players of the appropriate skill brackets to be on at that time period and queueing

vital warren
#

Yeah something like that would be the only way to keep everyone somewhat happy

#

Want to 3 stack? Play during that time. Want pure soloq? Don't play during that time. Don't care? Play whenever

cold patio
# viscid sky It's just a population issue- Game's matchmaker and rating system are likely wel...

Then considering we don't have the necessary population to make that system work properly ... shouldn't we disable it for the time being ?
And maybe come back to it if the game pops off ?
Because atm people are legitimately quitting the game/taking a break because they can't queue with their friends anymore
Losing a stack of people who just want to have fun with their friends for the sake of what ?

Remove the restrictions until the population makes sense for it, I'm pretty sure people would rather be allowed to play with their friends and have wacky matchmaking over what we have now

viscid sky
#

TC previously made the opposite gamble where players were quiting because they were consistently getting stomped by parties and felt like they couldnt play the game. I think it is a no-win situation and they have to decide which is more impactful for their player numbers. The players who want to play solo and quite because they cant overcome stacks or the players who play in stacks and quit because they cant play with their friends.

vital warren
inner orbit
# viscid sky It solves it in the sense that it keeps high mmr players in games associated wit...

Again- There is no solve for high mmr players wanting to stack and play together because the population for the game isn't large enough to make appropriate skilled matches.
The solve is to allow coordination across longer time frames then whatever is tolerable to be in a queue; ie, some kind of automated scrims that interacts with rp.
And also accounting for mmr being higher when a player queues with the same person(s) a lot because better coordination

inner relic
viscid sky
viscid sky
#

I do think it is a bit of a myth that players prefer one method over another. Back when they implemented solo queue only it didn't seem to do much to impact retention or engagement from an outside pov.

inner orbit
# viscid sky They don't have the player count to support that. Also that sounds difficult to ...

If they bake it into normal queue like:
#1405783574996844604 message
It'd be good. (also see surrounding discussion for more specifics)
The two major problems with master/legend restrictions is getting an apropriate mmr calculation (since players that play together have multiplicative, not additive mmr)
And having enough players with similar mmr to have a fair match.

If you extend the timeframe, you make more use out of a limited player pool.
A bigger playerbase won't make the problem go away; it'l just push it to higher ranks.
But it'l be hard to have a bigger player base if the top ranked streamers quit the game from these restrictions, so imo some dev effort would be worth. How difficult depends on the existing codebase.

tawny island
cold patio
#

just playing casually with friends you very quickly end up being unable to queue with anyone, by accident

#

and tagging normal queue only works for a bit before it becomes 35 minute queues

inner orbit
#

The way the rp/mmr system is setup is you are guaranteed to eventually hit masters, even if it takes a while. They really need to fix that if they want ranked to be competitive imo.

desert ridge
#

Because of this the competitive side of the ladder is literally non existent below master.

inner orbit
# desert ridge This is an insanely easy fix that they probably don't want to do because of anot...

The bonus RP is a flawed metric that tries to give out points for big mmr diffs if you get a kill on them.

In theory it kinda makes sense; but it's a bandaid on the real problem.

The real problem is how to competatively rate the performance of the teams in the game against each other, without causing players to play in an unfun way to game the system.

This is made worse by large disparities in mmr.

Imo to fix this, what they really need to do is rank each teams perf at the end of a game from best to worse; either via elimination rp capped to 3-6 *( 12- placement) or some other method, and then allocate rp purely by the rank relative to the rest of the teams for a given match times the mmr diff.

So placing well against a better team gives more rp, and placing badly against a good team doesn't lose as much, and so on.

tropic glen
#

as of this week 60% of the comp scene has quit the game

#

this wont be healthy in the long-run

#

if a outsider from league / dota asks "Do u recommend supervive?" the answer will 9/10 times be no.... there wont be any new skilled players joining the game and the only retention they will get will be from furry artists that think mercury is hot

#

so maybe supervive can rebrand itself as a art project

cloud phoenix
#

I mean they already moved away from it's competitive aspect in general

tropic glen
#

LMFAOOOOOO

#

that makes it an even bigger joke btw

tawny island
#

"I want to queue with friends !!" but without the restriction during the beta all we saw was full stacks of legends smurfing on noobs

tropic glen
tawny island
#

Its not survivor bias most player are hardstuck diam or master 4 because the game is super hard for casuals and thats why its dead
99% of the player base didn't face any restriction

tropic glen
#

thats true

#

but you basically said that nobody leaves because of restrictions

#

but all the top100 players left, so they were replaced by new top100 players

#

and those top100 players are now starting to leave aswell

#

its a cycle

#

thats why i said survivorship bias

#

those left over say "this is fine"

#

because everyone who didnt think its fine has quit

tawny island
#

And how many players left after facing full stacks of legends in there lobby because the game is too dead to make a full legends lobby ? Cause maybe YOU want to chill with friends but what will happens is that 90% of legends queuing will queue with other legends to grind the ladder

#

And every single diam in there lobby will get annihilated the skill level is not even close

#

And please « don’t tell me just don’t put diam in the lobby!! » because the game is dead and a full master legends lobby will be 1hour queue and not possible

tropic glen
#

I fully agree with u that this is a problem btw

#

thats why i wanted there to be a small time period daily where 3-manning is allowed.

#

its the best of both worlds

#

you enable 3man ques for a 2-3 hour period for every region in the evening

tawny island
#

The only solution is a no restriction queue during dedicated timer i agree with you

#

Like for me its the ONLY solution

#

But again, is there enough player to have ok queue time ? If you open a mod for 3 hours but everybody have a 1hour queue…

tropic glen
#

it can just be the same lobbies

#

but for 2-3 hours a day you can 3man que

#

so during that time diamonds might have a worse time, but atleast it gives everyone a chance to play in competitive lobbies again and to practice as a team, which currently everyone can do except veterans... which is why veterans quit and the people who replace them on the leaderboard will aswell

tawny island
#

I don't agree with that because casuals who can only play at that timing will can stomp on cd everyday. Dedicated lobbies is the only fair thing to do if you want to allow 3 legends to queue together

cold patio
# tawny island Nobody leave after master restriction, and the ladder is public you can see numb...

I mean Luca already mentioned it but that's not true at all, they do
Also, "but it's only 100/200/300 players leaving" when the game doesn't have over 5k players is uh ...

Alternative option would be to make it actually hard to rank up. Don't give random bonus points for existing and make it a real grind to reach those ranks, at least then you would have to try very hard to face those restrictions

tawny island
tropic glen
#

The people that stream the game, make content for it, are active in the pro scene, host events, make websites etc....

#

When all of these people start to mutually quit the devs should really question their decision

cold patio
cold patio
tropic glen
#

You need a core audience to tell outsiders to play the game, now were at the point where none of us can ever recommend it

cold patio
#

alienating people who really liked your game, hyped your game and wanted your game to succeed is weird

#

I want Supervive to thrive, genuinely
It's the most fun pvp based game I played in a so incredibly long

#

But now what, I tell my friends "hey come play this game, but sorry I literally cannot play with you. Either because ranked restrictions or 40 minutes normal queues"

#

?

tropic glen
#

We atleast had arena in open-beta but now thats ruined aswell, thats a entirely different conversation needed to be had

#

The fact that whoever wins round 1-2 has instantly won the game because of gold advantage

#

who thought thats a good idea

#

contract killer perk isnt disabled either.....

#

If arena atleast worked like open-beta arena, we could play that

tawny island
tropic glen
#

this was the case on open beta release because there was no seperation between ranked and unranked

cold patio
#

I think that was also mostly caused by ranked/normal queues being fused together. Ranked sweatlords in casual lobbies absolutely sucks for everyone

tropic glen
#

idk what this handholding mentality is that you have garoh

#

but its exactly why the game is flopping

#

becuase the devs are taking the same approach to everything

#

It's disrespectful to the lower skill players to assume they won't get better and the game shouldn't be balanced or playable when they do

tawny island
#

You can’t change the fact that the game is too dead to have a strict matchmaking

tropic glen
#

this game wont survive without que restrictions removal fully / partially

#

what youre telling me here is "We cant fix the game because there arent enough players"

#

thats why they fix the game

#

and then they do their big marketing push that ive been told theyre working on rn once theyve rebalanced core mechanics and added proper onboarding

#

then when the marketing hits you have a core audience of veterans and content creators that can vouch the game being good

#

the first week of 1.0 was S tier, we all had genuine fun

#

then the restrictions hit and everyone from my friendslist started to dissappear

#

and now this is also carrying over to scrims and inhouses, nobody has motivation to host / play in them anymore

#

its the beginning of the end after coping for so long, restrictions have ALWAYS been the problem.

#

a game that wants only new players and doesnt care about anyone who sticks around, its peak irony

#

its fine if 100 people leave cus were getting 10 new ones 🔥

#

the issue has never been brand new players its been retention, theres atleast 10k players who would give this game another shot if something drastic changes and would return

vital warren
tropic glen
#

so i go to his linked twitter and its all furry "adult content"

#

and then the same thing happend again the next day

inner orbit
tardy apex
#

It's like there's a binary that exists when it comes to reasoning for you

#

"it's either this or that!!"

#

No nuance

tawny island
#

You will be 20 to queue for 1 hour then leave and soloq

clever stump
#

People were able to get games full of mostly high elo players the first 2 weeks of 1.0. That argument is kinda stupid

tardy apex
#

I hope they add strict matchmaking so I can watch everyone that played the launch of 1.0 on my friends list return to the game instead of hitting legend and then instantly quitting because of the low quality lobbies.

tawny island
#

Why do you think they added restriction ?

clever stump
#

Cus they was a low player count at one point and we couldn't fill high elo lobbies. Literally was not true for the start of 1.0

tropic glen
#

people like u type all this stuff and then end up quitting despite getting everything u want from the devs

tawny island
clever stump
tawny island
#

Or maybe you think a low master should be in the same game than a 2000lp legend

clever stump
#

There is more than that bro.

clever stump
# tawny island Or maybe you think a low master should be in the same game than a 2000lp legend

I guarantee you there is close to no skill difference between those 2. If someone reaches masters that is when shit really picks up. There are reasons why nearly everyone that reaches masters is stuck at master 4 most of the time. Cus you don't climb through that unless you're actually good rn. which is ngl good. You're saying stuff that just isn't right. Like objectively just isn't right.

#

And you have to understand something. What your saying is the case literally was not what it was like the first 2 weeks of 1.0. In the past a lot of these condos were on hypotheticals, this is based on what LITERALLY happened.

cold patio
#

why is "friends" in quotations ?
Is it that weird to have friends and be high elo ?

tawny island
tawny island
cold patio
tawny island
#

I'm sure you have some plats in your friend list

#

Hope you will play with them when they take out restrictions

#

To have a lot of fun

cold patio
#

I do and I do

#

thank you very much

tawny island
#

Great

#

Say that to the full stack of legends i proc in arena, I think they should have some fun too

#

With their real friends

clever stump
tawny island
#

High elo players make smurf in every game any way

#

Cause with a real strict matchmaking a legend should wait 50minutes in queue

cold patio
#

Oh okay so it's just a personal grudge I see
You don't actually have any arguments

Because my 2 friends I play with most ? We reached masters already, we can't trio anymore.
And we were mostly trolling and trying dumb stuff on purpose, to delay the inevitable.
But now we're there and we can't play together
And it's just master btw, idk why you're so fixated on "Legends this, legends that"

#

they're real friends, and we can't play Supervive anymore

inner orbit
turbid anchor
#

nah

inner orbit
tropic glen
#

pointing to the sign once again

tawny island
#

Your opinion

tropic glen
#

just a fact

tawny island
#

No its your opinion

tropic glen
#

Weve all uninstalled

#

next patch will decide if the game is removed from our memory aswell

#

its literally the last chance to remove restrictions before everybody moves on

tawny island
#

They lost 50 players gg

tropic glen
#

u can be supervives only content creator 🔥

#

ill watch bro 🔥

#

this is just another repeat of what happend on open-beta launch with people like paz etc

#

except this time the "we still have 1.0 release" cope is gone

tawny island
#

I think they should delete the battleroyal mod

#

Lets delete br, arena beacons and balance 8 players games insted of 36 so cry babies that can't play with their friend ( only legends one ) have fun together

tropic glen
#

unfortunate

tawny island
tardy apex
# tawny island "Mostly"

It was honestly high elo lobbies for the first two weeks, as the Devs didn't reset MMR, just rank.

This means that they learnt from open beta and didn't want the veterans stomping noobs.

It also shows that we were able to get high quality games without interacting with 99% of the playerbase

tropic glen
#

even with the restrictions i would que up and get legend teammates at first

#

there were 3 man legend trios that got matched with eachother because we had a proper matchmaking pool

#

but all of these players vanished due to frustration of getting random teammates every round

tawny island
#

Then they add restriction because they don't want you to have fun

#

Interesting

tropic glen
#

it feels like it

#

and its why many of us quit

#

u are not good at ragebaiting garoh

#

u are genuinely terrible at it even

tardy apex
#

Argue in good faith challenge for Garoh: impossible

tawny island
#

Or maybe you are delusional

#

Its not ragebait xd

tropic glen
#

u just make urself look foolish unfortunately

tardy apex
#

Shock!

tawny island
#

Everything was perfect then they add restriction so you don't have fun, or maybe you stomped 50% of plats and diams team and then had some great end game with legend trios

hexed garnet
#

Arena players always yelling the same things, thought it had gotten better

tawny island
#

I play both mod but needing to farm 7 minutes to buy items, res in 0.1s after running away with a BIKE is not always fun

tardy apex
#

I mean, true, Lucy (at least from what I have seen) but let's stay on topic

clever stump
#

i try to do that as wel... it's hard cus some of the stuff is actually so stupid

ok back on topic now

#

restrictions did just take a lot of fun out of the game for people who are even remotly good. like so many people absoulutly love this game but without restrictions it just got downgraded for them. and how i see it solo que wouldn't feel too bad if the mm was just good.

teams mode would go hard and not cause the main issues with removing restrictions, but doubt they'd do it

hexed garnet
#

I wont defend every decision lol

#

Resurgence was shit, Wu RMB was a mess of an ability, oath ruined the game for months and the revive timing is terrible

#

Also the Ranked restrictions were a bad move

#

The Solo party was wrong

clever stump
#

at the time when the discussion was up it's pretty fair from what they were coming from. juts they aren't sustainable in the long run. and back then it was duo not solo so didn't feel as bad

hexed garnet
#

Oh, I whole heartedly believe that the ranked restrictions need to go

#

The Solo peeps may have won the argument in the past, but they are unquestionably wrong

tardy apex
#

Some actual major pleasure based takes, I never thought I would see the day

hexed garnet
#

I have based takes, people just dont listen to me :P

tardy apex
#

We've deffo gotten into it in the past and I swear I have never seen a based take from you

#

It felt like you were a paid TCG bot

clever stump
tropic glen
#

the battle for que restrictions 2024 colorized....

hexed garnet
#

And tbh, in the past I thought you used Ego as an alternative to a personality, but I've learned thats not the entire EU scrim group crikGnome

tropic glen
#

but major pleasure has good takes

#

except when he said shrike will be strong on 1.0

tardy apex
hexed garnet
tardy apex
#

I try my best to be good faith and hear people out, but I can have a lack of patience every now and again for takes written by people like garoh

uneven talon
#

There was never an argument only some hurried damage control measure

clever stump
#

No stacks were running iver lobbies at some point and it was just unhealthy at the time. That was more so cus of low player count than anything tho.

uneven talon
#

Would that be happening if on launch day mmr was not reset and there was separate queue

clever stump
#

I'm not even talking about on launch tho. It was after we lost a lot of players.

#

On launch it 100% woukd not have happened if mmr wasn't reset. You can't even debate that, it's just true.

uneven talon
#

Would a lot of players be lost if that all happened on launch day

clever stump
#

It's 1 if like 3 main reasons we lost so many players at the time.

clever stump
#

Solo que is fine yall, I jist had a great solo que game with 2 gold players :)
(Like 80% sure they were smurfs lmao).

clever stump
#

I mean this seriously, I'm somehow getting decent teammates a lot of the time. Not all of the time just it's a lot of my games surprisingly.

Tbf i am in lower rn due to being off the game for a while before. So maybe just different between higher elo and lower elo.
I do think restrictions should go this is just surprising

tropic glen
#

supervive discord btw

#

we love que restrictions

turbid anchor
#

hop on deadlock

stable vault
#

okay but why Deadlock

#

Is it that good

tropic glen
#

it isnt

#

supervive would be better if... que... restrictions... werent....

cold patio
#

(literally playing Peak with friends too rn)

turbid anchor
#

(im biased)

vital warren
#

So double the deadge

hexed garnet
#

Didn't we gain people over the weekend?

latent needle
#

Graph looks the same

wintry sky
# stable vault Is it that good

I've tried it 2 games with 2 friends and I got shit stomped but it looks really fun
I think ppl started playing it mainly cause u can actually play it with friends + game is pretty good ngl

turbid anchor
#

I feel like a lot of ppl playing only because there is literally nothing else to play

#

since 2020 how many "good" competitive was released beside deadlock?

#

the only big title was marvel rivals which is garbage for normies

vital warren
#

You still need an invite from someone playing to play

#

Last time I tried it I literally liked only 2 or 3 of the characters gameplay wise

#

And none design wise

#

Not for me BLEHHH

turbid anchor
#

I remember times when people wanted money for ts

#

now u can literally ask for invite in tiktok comments

#

about characters, they are so fcking boring compare to regular hero shooters

vital warren
#

Lots of people don't even know it exists or go to the page and see that "it's not available" and leave

royal prism
#

I agree with someone above who said TC should just disable ranked and put everyone in one queue.. no point in ranked anyway when it is making most of the masters+ players leave the game and makes queue times so long

now, no one is playing normals cause you cant get a game, and lots of people dont even bother playing ranked cause they can't play with their friends. it's a lose/lose

turbid anchor
vital warren
turbid anchor
#

okay I know this is not gonna be a best argument

#

since im single example

#

but 3 of them know played supervive only thanks to me

image.png
#

and this is deadlock xd

#

where I maybe invited like 2 guys

#

and its not like im giga moba/hero shooter guy

tawny island
turbid anchor
tawny island
#

Bro deadlock is a VALVE game

#

They own fkg steam

#

Of course it will be successful

formal bough
wintry sky
vital warren
#

Just something that looks cute or nice

wintry sky
#

He's waiting for u to play him

flint widget
wintry sky
#

But preferably with some friends

flint widget
#

I watched a stream of it and I honestly don't like the pov

#

I'm not a big ow esque game fan

wintry sky