"Armory is good and will bring more people to the game"

[tawny swallow]

No, it's not. I mean maybe armory itself is good, but prisma, lootboxes, etc. isn't. And it's not possible to fix it by some tweaking or something. This system needs to go. Wrong genre, wrong audience for such things.

I expressed my concerns about meta progression back in March (here https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1354892939809001632) no one listened. Cause even on paper it sounds bad. I see streamers who tried the game when beta started and they are coming back and just don't understand why it went that way. I also don't get it.

What's the point of advertising current version of Supervive to competitive gamers (League, dota, apex) if they hate something that can make them or the opponent stronger by rng system outside of the matches? Now it just looks like paid promotions to the p2w game (I know it's not p2w, but it looks like one, especially with the new terrible UI)

Tom kick, Nidhogg, Chipsa and other popular players of this community are loved for their skill not for the ability to grind 24/7 and smash people who didn't had so much time lol. And for some reason they didn't told you that this way is the wrong one

[fiery topaz]

Just too many variables as ive said before man. The marketing also, people were most likely expecting a more polished and feature complete supervive that they tried a year ago, but instead its just completely flipped to please casual audiences also which is their target audience. Im not gonna make this too long but the fact that resurgance didnt work, audio pings alot of outcry, item evolutions yeah cool but bad integrity but can be ok x y z, like from multiple sources in multiple ways are they told the competitiveness can be improved etc. If thats not the prio at all then i fail to realise how ur gonna turn league combat inside of a br into a casual game people simply wont take too erious generally speaking....? Eventually people learn and theyll eventually thrive for more even if they enjoy the game super casually and if at those points the game competitively/ranked value etc wise sucks then ur starting from square 1. And the balance between casual and more competitive cant be this hard... but who am i

[undone orchid]

Literally nothing wrong with the Armory if we just had to spend the Prisma as we got it. Think like Halo Reach credits + their armor system. Just money from playing the game for customization. The RNG is such a turn off for me and it's frustrating to be as time gated as it is.

I fell in love with comp supervive but what's the point. If you get high ranked you can't queue with a group and if you don't sink a bunch of hours you can't fight at a fair level anyways.

I don't want to play 50 hours to potentially have the BIS items. I want to earn them? Respect the players time.

[serene field]

We talked about this yesterday, and we came up with something. The current armoury system is set into place to stop player retention, but players will automatically stop playing if they feel demotivated by having to spend SOOO many hours to unlock stuff. It’s not casual friendly either, because people that play 3/4 games a day won’t unlock anything basically.

We came up with something:
a better system would be:

1. make ALL items accesible to EVERYONE.
2. create and select your build in home screen before u load into a game.
3. buy ur build that u created in game by collecting gold etc.

[fiery topaz]

I agree if main focus would be armory, but to me way too many powes and consumeables that all together make it turbo hard to balance characters n game feels way too overwhelming. Its not chill until ur strong, its a pvp game where the more u play the more u notice difference at general levels regarding info as with damage estimation etc, so u dont want powers or armory to be weak cos then its not fun, but strong and hunter altering at times like this creates what u got right now. Think the system as is without a big overhaul or tweaks elsewhere wont get to its potential but aye

[undone orchid]

Like literally every change they made is so good. The only bad one, why make it tied to CHANCE :/

[tawny swallow]

it seems like they also want to have some sort of progression for the players to want to return, but that's not the answer for sure

[fiery topaz]

No need to listen but if doing so the referance point for the overwhelming factor is that teamfights didnt feel overwhelming after 3-5 arena runs for me. So.. ye

[serene field]

thats also fine, but then the other possibility would be to not make it RNG, so they should have every item in the forge and people earn prisma by playing and they can upgrade any item they want using prisma. It can still be semi grindy but it would be RNG which shouldnt belong in this game

[woven thunder]

Im lost

Can u explain in few words what u trying to say?

[peak crescent]

can’t wait for nidhogg to do “no gear” content and piss on us pleb 🙂

[tawny swallow]

yeah, he should go no gear in his elo bracket and let's see if it doesn't matter

[fiery topaz]

Srry was bit tired maybe ill reply in a but busy getting rdy ❤️

[peak crescent]

agreed, but the average gamer isn’t an ex pro lol player who covers video games for a living. of course someone who made it his life goal of playing a video game competitively as a job is gonna want to play rank immediatly

[tidal birch]

another way they could fix it is by copying from warzone's progression and build system. remove prisma. add account levels. introduce meta game progression XP that is rewarded at the end of matches that levels up your account. At certain levels, players unlock new relics/perks/grips/kicks. Players need to actually use the relics/perks/grips/kicks in game to level up that specific item to lvl 1/2/3.

and the player can create loadouts in the menu so they can prebuy the whole loadout at the store

can even just copy making the dropping in loadouts risky

[woven thunder]

Create pregame loadoouts in moba worst idea

[tidal birch]

well thats just a version of what most mobas have already implemented with item build UI

[light escarp]

Another thing is how are armories not team wide. Like why do i have to drop my gloves to my teammates every game because i have them upgraded? Oh you don't have bis boots unlocked yet? Guess Ill have to drop them to you every game! fun fun fuunnn

[woven thunder]

Builds and loadouts are not same

Moba is not shooter

It has more possible situations

Some items counter other some just give u boost some just too situation

Builds is just like possible way to purchase items in game like past system with evolution was been

[tidal birch]

what do you think loadout means?

[fiery topaz]

Я собирался попробовать, но это так сложно и чертовски сложно сделать в нескольких словах.

I was going to try, but it's so complicated and damn hard to do in a few words.

oops

[strange mauve]

remove the rng part

and make it like a mastery thing

[tidal birch]

how are you buying items to counter the item builds of other players?

[strange mauve]

you play a lot w the item and u will upgrade it

[stable bobcat]

Yeah reviewbomb reviews are indeed useful to this matter

[lucid flame]

Why do people say reviewbomb when the people reviewing are people who actually play the game and want it to succeed

When does "People dont like this system" become "people are review bombing"

[stable bobcat]

Because most of the negative reviews are from veteran that didn't even try the patch, they just opened the game so their review could not be marked as early access and gave the negative review.

Reviews are very close to 50/50 now and soon will be more positive than negative because new players are having fun and that's what it counts.

[acoustic terrace]

Yea, game lives or dies by how many new players they can capture

Salty veterans isn't gonna change that

[onyx locust]

what is this insane manipulation? You could literally check people's public profiles and check to see if they played the game recently and they will have hours played not just a quick open and quick and point negatively to it

I could literally take screenshots of new players echoing the same sentiment towards the armory system with low playtime. The armory is flawed and people vets and new players alike are outraged rightfully so.

Do you just think that people doompost for the sake of doomposting? They played the game, they hated it and want change. They are outraged because this wasn't tested during the time when this game was in beta testing

There is no one more wanting this game to succeed than the people who are passionate about the game

These reviews that you could just sort by recent on steam are from new players

How many hours does one need to play before their "review" is valid anyway

[cunning ruin]

There's a lot of negative from both new and veterans. I do see a lot more from veterans but there is still quite a few from newer players

New player review saying exactly what lots of people are saying. If you look through the reviews I do see a lot of people that are just more veteran

[onyx locust]

this one sums up armory quite decently

[lucid flame]

Have you actually looked at the negative reviews and determined that or is this just bias

[stable bobcat]

I looked at the 100+ reviews of yesterday. The existence of some valid newcomers neg review doesn't mean the majority are reviewbomb - like from veterans.

I am not saying everyone loves the system, I am saying there is a clear trend that neg reviews are from veterans, atleast 7 out of 10 reviews I saw, and most of them had almost no playtime on last 2 weeks and a lot were disrespectful, like Mika, just calling devs for nepotism and using a lot of words to just say bs without actually trying the patch

[wraith aurora]

The problem is, it doesnt really matter if the system is as bad as it seems. The problem is that, if you are a competitive player, and you open the game, see a system that gives in-game power for out of game progression, you close the game

I get what you are saying about trying it out, but just the concept itself already leaves such a bad impression.. If I hadnt played supervive before 1.0, the system would make me quit the game instantly and not give it a real chance

[wraith aurora]

I think there is the bias of veterans caring a lot, so they write a review. Someone new, not invested in the game will rarely write a review after unintalling with 2h playtime

[craggy vale]

i’m not gonna lie to you, I don’t care for true doom posting etc.
this game still has good bones but it feels like there’s a huge barrier to actually play the game and that’s just sad. I think you still have people dooming about the game who have been negative for ages, but the difference is that you’ve eroded at the player base who does like the game with this change and you’re also seeing that. I don’t particularly think there’s any true coordinated reviewbombing happening here, people just cannot play the game in ways they enjoy suddenly and it’s frustrating. The “you have agency” theorycrafting game lets you buy one of a few items until you’ve sunk large amounts of hours playing specifically not to lose and to farm prisma so that you can actually build in ways that fit your playstyle and character of choice. Only then can you start playing to actually win

like this isn’t just like, ooogh bring back project loki this games been dead for years

there’s a specific aspect of the new release that is a pain point for anyone playing either casually enough that the prisma grind is a true barrier to entry, or competitive enough that they’re annoyed you can’t play with maximum utility outside of customs for many hours - disconnected from your skill level as a player

[woven thunder]

In dota that it

[lucid flame]

I dont think this is a patch you need insane amounts of game time to understand what's wrong with it

Imo the armory problem is apparent from the first game you play esp if you are a vet

So I personally dont think low game time is reason enough to suspect reviewbombing

[stable bobcat]

you do when most of the arguments are pre-made argumetns without testing the system

[lucid flame]

I mean wdym by pre-made arguments

[stable bobcat]

they are not arguments based on playtime experience

they are just a suposition

[lucid flame]

I thought before I started the game that the armory would invalidate gold since you could only buy what you pulled with prisma

I played one game

And I knew my argument was correct

What is inherently wrong with a pre made argument if it is a fair assessment of what the game ended up being

And how long can play time be before people can make a review of this system then.

Does it take 20 hours to see how this system is not working?

[stable bobcat]

you think you lost your game due to armory differences? or what was your super realization with less than 30 mins played

[lucid flame]

Yes I do think I have lost games due to armory differences

I also think i have won games due to armory difference

[stable bobcat]

well then if that is what you think there is nothing to discuss here, I can tell you those were not the reasons to lose/win

[lucid flame]

It does not take super long to see how this system interacts with the game in a negative way

[rigid path]

bruh

[lucid flame]

No i dont think you can

[rigid path]

i won matches that i forgot i could use the shops

just get better and have fun for god sake

[lucid flame]

The argument is not about skill

Its about the armory and how it interacts with the game

And how long it would take for that realization to occur

[rigid path]

yeah beucase you lost matches on day 1-2 becuase of the armory ...

[lucid flame]

What is with this obsession with a win loss ratio

I don't care whether I win or lose

I care about a fun game and a good core gameplay loop that makes me want to return

Ive only gotten outside of top 3 like twice since launch and I've been playing regularly

That does not mean I would think the armory is good

[rigid path]

[onyx locust]

guys a free hook, invulnerability and instant deathbox revives doesn't impact the gameplay too much this is peak misinformation right here 🗣️

[wraith aurora]

Having to even ask myself that question after loosing is the core of the problem.

[stable bobcat]

I just 3rd partied a tea when I had 0 relics, we equipped em and won the game, just like any other supervive game before

[sterile iron]

i think my main gripe with the armory is that all of the old complexity with going blade, hybrid or tank is completly gone

I know it wasnt REALLY all that complex, everyone played double tech on everything cuz it wasnt balanced properly. But i literally CANNOT play Kingpin the same way that i did in open beta

i am forced into playing Kingpin, the character how it's made, and all my actual choices are: go grapple haha and dunk people

I can't go double blade and get all the funny height giving powers and dunk people to death (not abyss)

it's just not a thing anymore

[quick karma]

I'm fine with armory if they remove the need to find/buy everything upwards of 7x bring that down to 1-3 instead and cut the grind by a huge amount

It's one thing to have a grind, another to make it expensive but making it so I need to get something 7x and there's a tonne of stuff? I gotta draw a line somewhere

[fiery topaz]

i wouldnt touch the game even with good ranked system and more competitive direction/playerbase just cos of armory system on its own. Just seems completely illogical to design it this way just cos it maybe sounded good. But not just having to collect, but collect tiers, collecting is rng, after all that in some runs u wont even get the items complete all this time spend trying to understand and learn/minmax the systems and variables rather than the gameplay

idc they tried something creative in a way but it just doesnt make sense at all to me with similar issues that armory brings already existing and being big part of the reason ppl fidnt stick on open beta

[peak crescent]

imagine killing a 5 item champ with a doran ring in league. doesn’t happen. happens in supervive all the time

[peak crescent]

not sure about height but damage kingpin is definitely still a thing. my main was kingpin double blade. i was sad logging in but played 10 games and wad already able to make a one combo kill build with meh items

[stable bobcat]

there is no veteran reviewbombing but a lot of reviews have the PRE-RELEASE review, which means they didnt play the game before launch nwn (and a lot of the rest, when you click on the review, its sub 1h last 2 weeks)

[strange mauve]

cap

[lucid flame]

What did they say that was incorrect

How is this reviewbombing I dont get it man

Potential in-game builds are determined by an outgame gacha system? That's true
You start with crap and everything is locked behind rng? Thats true
The game is not about balance and more about grind? Debatable

But hes not misrepresenting the game or its systems

Its just a guy expressing how much he dosent like the new direction the game has taken

[stable bobcat]

I wont elaborate why is important to play a game before reviewing it I am tired

[lucid flame]

New patch just dropped if oath hits you with his hammer you are instantly dead

How many hours does it take to understand that is a bad decision

[stable bobcat]

atleast launching the game anjd discovering that is a blatant lie

you are boring ngl

[lucid flame]

What no its a hypothetical

To establish you dont need to play the game to not like the direction it has gone in

[stable bobcat]

you are picturing a false direction, I have yet to be deleted by an armory interaction instead of player skill

I am into 15h played on the patch

[lucid flame]

Does that review say that?

I dont think it says that the armory overrides player skill

[stable bobcat]

"no but the issue is that you have to think wether you got killed by items diff or skill diff"

That is not true, is a coping mechanism, 90% of times if you lose is skill diff, either of the fight they just lost or by past decisions in the game

[lucid flame]

Where are we getting this quote from

[stable bobcat]

Ngl it sounds like the good old "I dont climb out of gold cause trolls and afks"

[lucid flame]

Bc its not in the review

[stable bobcat]

I am not talking about that specific review, I actually dont really care about a review of someone didnt even bother to boot the game

[lucid flame]

So why did we bring it up just to go into an entirely different point

[stable bobcat]

It just shows a lack of personal opinion, and basing things out of prejudices

[lucid flame]

If you want to have a discussion about whether the armory over powers skill we could

I dont see what veteran reviews have to do with that

[stable bobcat]

Any veteran review with pre-release tag or less than 1h played last two weeks, is a bad review and should not be taken in count

[strange mauve]

LOLLOLOL

[lucid flame]

Oh ok so now we have good reviews and bad reviews

[stable bobcat]

Only new players first impressions (that hopefully isnt a veteran´s alt, I am sure some ppl did neg review twice with his alt)and veterans that ACTUALLY did try the patch should be

[lucid flame]

So I assume the bad reviews are the ones that you think are reviewbombing

[stable bobcat]

yeah a normal person does that

[lucid flame]

Now out of the 100 reviews you say you have looked through

[stable bobcat]

bad reviews are pre-release or veterans with less than 1h on the patch

[lucid flame]

How many of them have more than 1 hr on them

[stable bobcat]

I start my shift on 1h, I will actually check every single review since 24

And categorize them

with %s and total number

I have a lot of time to demosntrate I am right in this matter

And I will do it

I will tag you when I finish, around 3:00 AM UTC

[lucid flame]

Great i look forward to seeing it!

[stable bobcat]

on this thread

[lucid flame]

U might even see mine in there

Its a good review dw

[stable bobcat]

another example of bad review

is Mika´s review

I think everyone agrees on that

[lucid flame]

I dont know who that is

[stable bobcat]

lucky you

she is banned from the server already

its fine

[zinc sierra]

Is anyone enjoying the lootbox?

[lucid flame]

I hate them!

[zinc sierra]

Wanna hear some opinions of someone who likes it

I also dont enjoy it

you never know how long it'll take to get the items you need

[stable bobcat]

What do you want to know

I like it

The system is a clear weekly system where you get a bunch of loot on the first day of the week, with the weekly chest, then you do weekly missions that boost your prisma a lot and then you have the chance to grind it ingame and keep progressing at a slower pace

[strange mauve]

is there a thing

that u dont like

[stable bobcat]

I think loot boxes should prioritize unlocking every item first rather than duplicates

As the system is not made to get money, experience would be better if most of the times you would be getting a brand new unlock

I do like to be building duplicates and new at the same time, I can feel some ppl being annoyed when they want x item and the rng is not favoring them

[narrow skiff]

After unlocking every item they should just let us upgrade them with currency instead of relying on rng

That way you could actually work toward builds

[stable bobcat]

The system is created so you don't get all the items on 3 stars

Just some

If you do that, for example, being an otp would be insanely powerful because you could just focus your meta build until 3 stars

Discouraging one of the principles of the system , just try whatever you get and see if it works

The system is a: we don't want to see the same meta build every time for the same hunter, atleast for the first month

This way every item gets play, and build diversity is maximized, with the downside of being affected by eng

Rng*

Hey, probably nobody would try wukong with refractor, but is the leggo item I unlocked so I am trying it

I still think that system could prioritize first unlocks, to help players that don't like rng have a better feeling about it overall

[narrow skiff]

I can tell you that, thats definitly not the way to do it

You either force players to use items they dont want to use, or play characters they dont want to because they got the items for them

Or you "Try out" different stuff on characters you can clearly tell from the jump isnt meant for them

To me it just limits creativity, but you frame it in a way that makes people try out more stuff

[fiery topaz]

Its been long time that i opened reddit not just to laugh or smile but in agreement with what im reading. But this system has done it, people are on the loose and shouting (yeah i know the actual hellhounds not even understanding what they are trying to say are w/e just like review bomb or we just use brain and its no issue). Lets just say im quite cold hearted and i feel sad for the devs putting in so much time into this compared to other things yet most (not all ofc) of the reponses they are getting even if i dont agree with it personally i can understand it and how it applies to many people in varying ways (and im since i view things so in depth along the same lines at this point of “wtf is this” along multiple areas.

But what are the chances they massively overhaul armory among other things and just finally “get it” in next season? Eh..

If people wonder why im rarely positive its not cos there isnt anything positive but its a good and bad balance of like 0-20 and 80%. Besides being nice, i just think being harsh will do more than a nice comment about how much i like A but what i dislike about B. To me is just beyond that. Dev talks, discord etc feedback we can all say it was nice here or bad there, but no changes or shifts in direction or vision for the game have really been realised among the many things ull read from top players incase of wanting to narrow down ur field of players to listen to. On top of that is was quite easy for me atleast to look at Khyzaros posts and think yeah this shits trash, this i dont like but could work, thats maybe for future incase we implement x y z. Various places, various input, end of the day if devs dont get it or they simply have a vision that doesnt align with mine or someone elses then thats that.

I still hope game can thrive even if its something ill never touch so to whoever is enjoying it keep it up ig.

[stable bobcat]

I will be using this categorization in case you dislike something, I am also counting invalid positive reviews as invalid to be fair, to prevent duplicates etc

[woven thunder]

i played 1.5hr

is that enough?

[stable bobcat]

ye

[stable bobcat]

for example I started doing it, out of 126 positive reviews on 24th I discarded 20

[hushed zodiac]

Why is less than an hour a bad review? If someone played the game before, all it would take is one match(less than a hour) to be like this ain't it chief and have a valid point. Why would they keep playing if they don't like the idea of what they're offering? Plus people can just view streams and as long as they played the game before they could also play 0 hours and be like nah this is bad.(I haven't even left a review as a disclosure)

[stable bobcat]

counting the negative is harder though because I will need to click individually on bad reviews to check the last 2 weeks activity

[stable bobcat]

I dont discard less than an hour on new players, I do on veterans

I also do on positives

I just want a clear pictures of actual reviews

less than 1h of booted game is not enough im sorry

I think system has to be reviewed with some playtime, 1h is still too low but acceptable

reviewing something is not prejudicing something

also, this review is not about the armory, but of course will be counted as valid

[narrow skiff]

Are there bots?

[stable bobcat]

first games only

to calibrate your level

and put you on a decent MMR bracket

[narrow skiff]

even as returning player?

[stable bobcat]

to evade smurfs on low mmr lobbies etc

[stable bobcat]

I dont know how the decay works

so no idea

[narrow skiff]

Would definitly explain why the first couple games were a breeze 😂

[stable bobcat]

yeah every BR does it

otherwise you can have very bad first impresssions and its just that you ended up on a non deserved mmr bracket

should I count this review valid? xd

I will count it because it has 8h playtime and I did count the high playtime reviews with just "fun"

but jesuschrist ppl is amazing

also ppl blatantly lying in reviews, this should be even banned from steam bu w.e

another lie

we would be positive on 24th

a lot of negative reviews, of course, more positive than negative, I will do 25th

after safelocked talk

[flat garden]

how is this a lie? The armory system as it is now is pure gacha

[stable bobcat]

you cant say gacha (the worst type) you are making ppl understand is a p2w gacha when it isnt, is a bad faith review

still counted as a valid review per played time

[flat garden]

oh, so "the worst type" is the problem, got it

[stable bobcat]

but is a bad faith one

[viscid mural]

After skimming this discussion it seems like there's just a gap in explanation between you guys haha.

Sykii is saying (to my understanding) that reviews about Armory from before 1.0 launched are invalid because the players hadn't even used the system and are leaving a pre-emptive bad review based on zero experience with a change. Sykii is also saying (again to my understanding) that reviews with exceptionally small time played can be considered invalid for a similar reason. Finally the last thing I think I picked up from my skimming is that some reviews are just straight up bad faith reviews that are either personal attacks or have blatantly false information in them.

@stable bobcat did I get that about right?

[stable bobcat]

yes thats the summary

[viscid mural]

Deadass it seems like you just didn't explain yourself well enough haha. Calling things valid or invalid without proper explanation is bound to get some people riled up

I do agree with you generally. Some reviews I've seen have been hilarious

[stable bobcat]

I am trying to skip positive and negative reviews that have not really engaged with the game enough, or directly didnt play 1.0

[viscid mural]

And others have raised good points

[stable bobcat]

so we can have a decent picture of "real" reviews

and of course is just for us

[viscid mural]

Totally fair

[stable bobcat]

TC is aware of everything

and they probably also take in count little playtime veterans that didnt try the system

but I am trying to categorize the reality of the system being played

[fiery topaz]

why banned, just extract the usefull info from the shit in general message

[stable bobcat]

porpusely lying on a review system defeats the purpose of the review system, he should not be able to post reviews if he uses it on bad faithg

[fiery topaz]

these ppl crying about p2w or we would care also lets say its not p2w but similar system wether they make a post or no who knows

but id rather have their cancer reply than silence

ye i agree but still

not much u can do but start cat and mouse game

[stable bobcat]

I mean yeah I am just doing it so ppl realizes im not coping

aht a good chunk of bad reviews are review-bomb like

not real reviews

[fiery topaz]

idk moraly i agree but its like ye u shouldnt be toxic in game or we

yes but ppl just wont always be like nor al XD

[stable bobcat]

I am also excluding the positive ones that have the same chracteristics

I am not counting a dot positive with 1h played

thats not useful just a number

[fiery topaz]

if its way too many thats when personally id step in but thats me

[fiery topaz]

ye

Idk i dont think ive once in my life even used steam review before buying game

to my knowledge its more helpfull for devs than it is for players

[viscid mural]

I personally use it all the time haha

[stable bobcat]

the algorythm gets affected by % of reviews so if you have red reviews it gets less recommended etc

[fiery topaz]

ohh

[tawny swallow]

I'm gonna be honest, even in March when I heard about meta progression I didn't like it and was concerned. I've tried this system anyway and still didn't liked it. So I dont think that it's right to brush off every bad review that didn't had time spent on a new patch

[stable bobcat]

I dont normally use it either, I just use steamcharts

[fiery topaz]

Ya im sure some might love it even but ye

[viscid mural]

It's great to cut through the bullshit of games journalism and get concrete answers on if it's fun or not. Granted I do often have to sift through bs

[stable bobcat]

you should try it, not prejudice the system idk

I didnt like to not have soloq and I played soloq to really see how bad was it on open beta version

[tawny swallow]

I have tried it, still didn't liked it

[stable bobcat]

then as long as its more than 1h than I am sure u did in my "filterring" you would be counter

I think 1h is atleast SOMETHING to review

play 1/2 games, open 1/2 boxes unlock something

atleast navigate it

[tawny swallow]

Like my every concern before the patch was right

[fiery topaz]

ye thats basically me with asmongold when i watch clips n shit i cut and critical think through the shit until he gets to common sense and logic.

[stable bobcat]

its still too low, but is something

[onyx locust]

invalidating less than one hour experiences is prejudiced and hypocritical

[tawny swallow]

That's what I want to say

[stable bobcat]

im doing it also for positive reviews for comparison

[fiery topaz]

same here on modt things xD

[onyx locust]

it doesn't matter if it's positive or negative, people see and try something and didn't like it immediately and that's valid

[tawny swallow]

Like you can tell what's wrong with that system even before you play it

[fiery topaz]

feeling like im gandalf at this point

[stable bobcat]

I am not a dev, neither this info will be useful for devs, I am only demonstrating most of the reviews are review-bomb like and they didnt even try the system

[tawny swallow]

That's what I want to say

[fiery topaz]

Yes ur right

Even without touching this game once my opinion wouldnt be far from what it is now

[stable bobcat]

so we will get a picture of how the system looks, after removing less than 1h, I am telling, the % of negative will be BIG as well, but not as ppl are making it to see

[fiery topaz]

i can just apply same reasnoning and logic and then confirm by booting up the game n being unbiased lol

[stable bobcat]

in the end the useful feedback comes from new players and their retention

[fiery topaz]

i disagree at this point

[onyx locust]

it's just difficult to pinpoint how something could be invalid when I'm reading the negative reviews and even if it's less than an hour experience, they really aren't that incorrect on how the armory system feels and looks to new players

[tawny swallow]

I mean I myself didn't remove my positive review from the beta, but damn I really don't like current version

[fiery topaz]

mb when it come to finetuning shit atm

but things that no need player has 2 clues about need to change

new*

[onyx locust]

unless it's straight up stupid misinformation like p2w or something like that

[stable bobcat]

anyway im just counting the 24 and 25 reviews, so you wont counted either positive or negative, shouldnt impact the big picture, As MOST ppl enjoying the system do not stop and go to put a positive review

[stable bobcat]

I am not discrediting nw players, I am telling you, most less than 1h review negative are veterans

you just have to look at the reviews as im doing

a lot of negatives didnt even boot up the game

[fiery topaz]

my head overheats trying to make sense of supervive

cba

[onyx locust]

why are we discrediting vets even more when they have the most experience because I can tell you right now that the onboarding takes less than 15 mins as a vet

[stable bobcat]

because the vets with hundreds of hours liked the version that failed the most, and new version has to cater to new players and keep them

the game needs a change not keep catering to the same exact ppl that liked the game

[tawny swallow]

If I started to play 24th and didn't had previous experience with the game, I would honestly leave a bad review

[stable bobcat]

the fact that its being controversial means it is a good change, it means something big has been changed, which is what the game needs to try a revival

not a good system

but the kind of change is good

the scope of it

[tawny swallow]

Ehhh dunno about that

[onyx locust]

if the vets played the game as it is now they'd still leave the same review, do you realize how bad initial impressions of the game are? You can't use armor evolutions, you can't use the third and fourth consumable slots, YOU CAN'T UPGRADE YOUR SKILL TO THE FOURTH LEVEL, you can't do finishers to execute enemies, you can't play arena

I agree with you that something big has changed and something changing is good, but this change in itself is bad and the reviews and reaction from the community speaks for itself

A lot of the people here hated resurgence but they were more than willing to keep up with it and stick around throughout open beta, never just have we ever seen before this level of disagreement with the game itself

[stable bobcat]

hunters journey unlock of game mechanics is bad, we can agree on it, but that has nothing to do with the armory

[gray crag]

"failed the most"
Don't think you can really say that until this one version proves it's success or fails
So far it's doing worse than open beta launch, but we'll see how it does over the weekend

[stable bobcat]

only theorycraft knows retention, if the game has less peak but MORE players are staying playing the system is a W

[onyx locust]

it literally does for the first time player experience because that's how onboarding is

you can't do all of that while at the same time you can't do anything with your equipment

[stable bobcat]

last system lost 90k ccu on less than 1 month

[onyx locust]

you talk about how this system is for new players yet reject how bad the onboarding is for new players

and armory is a part of that

[gray crag]

Yea but they're not going to know meaningful retention for a month & they can't compare against open beta because they launched at a shit time (right before marvel rivals)

when did the open beta ever have 90k ccu, it topped out at ~50k ccu on steam

[stable bobcat]

I am not really here for onboarding issues I just want to defend that armory has good opinions, not only bad

as the review bombers want to make to seem

[stable bobcat]

topped at 47k, 3 weeks after 8k, lets see what happens here on 3 weeks , if retention is better is a win

[onyx locust]

then why do you keep bringing in new players in the conversation as a foothold, you have incredibly conflicting opinions that doesn't fit all too well with the other arguments

[stable bobcat]

because I am counting them as valid reviews? I am not saying otherwise

[gray crag]

As I said, you can't directly compare unless another game as popular as marvel rivals releases in the next 3 weeks lul

[stable bobcat]

I am mainly not counting mad vets that didnt even try the system

[stable bobcat]

cmon xd, marvel rivals didnt kill supervive

I thought we were over that kind of coping mechanism

[onyx locust]

Resurgence was so hated by this community for months and it didn't get this level of reaction from new and old players alike. Armory did, that should say something

[gray crag]

Marvel rivals & their marketing campaign took away a lot of the steam that the supervive marketing campaign would've generated

[fiery topaz]

ppl like to do some gymnastics

[stable bobcat]

and resurgence didnt bring back new players as well, was a decent addition but a small one

I also think it should be in ranked

would be better for new players

but vets managed to get it out of ranked it is what it is

[onyx locust]

https://tenor.com/view/bob-the-jelly-blue-jelly-blue-jelly-laughing-emoji-gif-9069699325776467460

[tawny swallow]

No way

[stable bobcat]

I just wnt player numbers not less than 2k players playing the game

[onyx locust]

aight I'm gonna go play Umamusume

[stable bobcat]

oh, that is a gacha pvp game, if u hate armory why do u ply it

umamusume is p2w, armory isnt

(I have mlb kitasan, amazing game)

[fiery topaz]

resurgance could have been great

the way it was in the game

[stable bobcat]

resurgence on ranked would help new players

[fiery topaz]

it shoulda never made it in the first place

[stable bobcat]

just disable it on customs

[fiery topaz]

nah it dont help

[stable bobcat]

like idk, I just want new players to stay playing the game

[fiery topaz]

just teach u nothing

[stable bobcat]

I dont find fun to play a competitive game if nobody plays it

like I rather play a p2w win played by a lot of ppl than a competitive game played by 500 sweat tryhards

I like social gaming

and I like to play big games, not niche games

[onyx locust]

the way we now have buffed revives that takes shorter cooldowns, buffed deathbox revives from armory, Elluna and Zeph, gold being incredibly irrelevant and respawn beacons being more available, respawn beacons being dropped by bosses anywhere and now you want Resurgence in ranked says everything I need to know

[fiery topaz]

Something like instant abyss spikes was great but there was too many situations where it can happen. Its a hard wake up call to focus up or improve maybe getting to certain ranks where ur not getting away with. careless gliding.

[stable bobcat]

if armory helps supervive to become bigger in the long run, is a W

[fiery topaz]

Game has little to no other game to game fundamentals ppl focus on when learning the game

[stable bobcat]

I dont want it personally, I wouldnt mind if it was there and helped new players

[stable bobcat]

stop thinking on supervive as the ultimate competitive game, the game needs to be played first and then competitive

[fiery topaz]

perma sidetracked and distracted to the point of investing time to learn bits and pieces yet to not improve much at all

[stable bobcat]

I was kekw seeing tournaments on the game when it was left with sub 1k players

like

[fiery topaz]

im not doing that

[stable bobcat]

mickey mouse tournaments, nobody was playing the game

[fiery topaz]

just too many variables and too open ended

[stable bobcat]

you are treating it a bit like we would treat league, on teaching fundamentals etc

[fiery topaz]

so ppl are way way way too clueless

[stable bobcat]

a casual new gamer dont want to learn fundamentals they want to have fun and be engaged

[fiery topaz]

thats what u think

[stable bobcat]

ChipSa coming with joule and oneshotting them that being their only experience was not very fun

[fiery topaz]

u know how many casual league players grind ranked everday?

[stable bobcat]

its what my casual friends show me they want, they are having fun now

[fiery topaz]

or other games

[stable bobcat]

thats not definition of casual anymore

you can create a middle-term definition

[fiery topaz]

theres more than one form of being casual

[stable bobcat]

once you play every time a ranked mode you are more than casual

and you play more than just 4 fun

[fiery topaz]

false, u can queue ranked cos others care more so u care more which is fun to u

[stable bobcat]

this game needs "aram players" and dating simulator spiritblossom event enjoyers

[fiery topaz]

yes

[stable bobcat]

thats what this game needs first

[fiery topaz]

hot demon bitched

[stable bobcat]

and then we can build a competitive scene and make it more competitive

[fiery topaz]

but it has none

[stable bobcat]

but first? it needs to be fun and cater new players

[fiery topaz]

they scaring off new players with current pathingz

das the oroblem

[gray crag]

That's also wrong
Making a game trying to cater to everyone results in no one having fun in the game
Many games have tried & they've all collapsed

You have to focus on your core playerbase & that isn't going to be the bulk of the people who only play VA's or people who play idle games, etc, etc

[fiery topaz]

idc if game becomes mega casual forever

and its not for me

but this aint gonna go hard casually either

[stable bobcat]

I mean they are catering more to casuals now

its why the super tryhard core base is mad

[gray crag]

I think the beta players are mostly mad because the game they had been testing suddenly changed in an extreme direction out of nowhere
if they had introduced the changes during open beta they wouldn't feel so betrayed

[stable bobcat]

I cba for example to tryhard on a game nobody plays, event hough I am a tryhard player and Iike to grind ranked, but if it has no players its w.e

like master 300lp+ on league had more players than supervive on a saturday

why would I play superive competitively then

I just stay grinding on league

[fiery topaz]

das just one among many reasons atleast for me

for some just that might be it ye

but cant rlly say accurately in angeneral sense

they had shit track record of coming up with something then shipping it unfinished to then tweak two numbers to then remove it

and be like yea that wasnt it

thats like the issue the game itself has

moving on from shit thats unfinished and just be like it wasnt good enough w need big swings

yes big swings on commitment to the things u put in or try out, not some arbitrary rng loot system nobody asked for neither the game is ready for

[stable bobcat]

Finished before 3:00 UTC @lucid flame

Yes, big % of negative reviews I never denied it, still a lot of positive reviews, and there are more positive reviews (that they are less likely to exist as everyone should know) than negative total.

I am not coping, around 150 negative reviews were in bad faith of the game / didnt try the game at all on 1.0 / didnt even give a chance to the system.

[tawny swallow]

I mean it's pretty clear that system needs to go, but I guess TC won't do it

[sage isle]

Valid negative reviews Xd

😆 keep coping

[gray crag]

Also btw, you aren't less likely to get a positive review than you are a negative review, that's not how that works

It's "You're more likely to get a reactionary negative review than a reactionary positive review"
But as you can see from the fact that not all games have a equal neg:pos, if your game is actually solid you end up with a much larger amount positive reviews as the negative reviews trickle in from people not liking it

[stable bobcat]

I kinda think review system in steam is just flawed when ppl can review a release with only early-acces playtime, and other thingies

real data its only on TCs side, they can see retention

if new players are staying

if players are requeueing more

if they are coming back

etc etc etc

better than a system that mostly encourages rioting against the company, this game lost 90% playerbase in one month and had 95+% positive reviews, review system doesnt work

but atleast we can filter out ppl trying to just hurt the game

[sage isle]

NGL, they have more invalid positive reviews than invalid negative reviews🤣

[gray crag]

You keep ignoring the fact they lauched right before christmas, right before marvel rivals, etc, etc
They weren't keeping their playerbase, they got the "game of the month" playerbase from twitch streams

[fickle karma]

A good point to bring up. The high score clearly didnt reflect that the beta version had big problems for the majority of players.

[tawny swallow]

No one is trying to just hurt the game lol. If game is good people gonna give a positive review. Armory is a bad system, people dont like it. People don't really need much time to say that they don't wanna see system like armory in the competitive game

[stable bobcat]

Im pretty sure that ppl calling it on purpose p2w when they know it isnt is trying to hurt the game

ppl nowadays is"If I dont like it nobody can like it"

and this person confirms it

[tawny swallow]

It looks like p2w, it's pay by time to win

[stable bobcat]

yea so every game in the world is p2w because if you invest more time to improve you win

doing such a bad takes about the system puts it further from being fixed

idk

try to make it better

[tawny swallow]

No, it's not pay to improve, it's pay time to gain stats

[stable bobcat]

dont lie about it

[onyx locust]

you're doing the same thing by invalidating reviews from vets lmao, I haven't seen a single review from vets that are just malicious reviews trying to hurt the game. Just straight up being disappointed by the armory

[gray crag]

This so much
I left a negative review because honestly, I do not enjoy playing the game anywhere near as much as I did in EA
I genuinely would not recommend the game as it is to anyone, the meta progression they've added is bad, but I think the main bad thing is that they ruined the in game pacing & feel by implementing it & the other changes they made to support around it

[stable bobcat]

I only invalidate reviews that are clearly not to improve the system

[tawny swallow]

I'm gonna be completely honest either we all gonna admit that this system suck or we end up with a worst version of the game before it dies

[stable bobcat]

I myself, even when I love the system, still I am thinking ways to improve it for ppl that dont like it

[gray crag]

Reviews aren't meant to be detailed analysis, they're meant to tell you how the reviewer is feeling
They shouldn't have to give constructive criticism telling the devs exactly what they think should be fixed & how to be a valid review

[stable bobcat]

this version of the game is not tailored to be liked for the 1k max CCU players that played the open beta, therefore its normal they dont like it

the version of the game exists so different players come play it and stay playing

and the game can actually exist and be developed

[gray crag]

Well that's damn obvious by what's being said by everyone
But they dropped a completely different game to people who were expecting what supervive was
So all the negative reviews from those people are valid

[stable bobcat]

most of them are valid ye

[onyx locust]

there is nothing more hurtful to a game than to glaze everything as if everything was perfect. Criticisms come up around times like this and it's up to the devs whether they accept it and try to change it and have a higher chance of succeeding (No Man's Sky, Helldivers, Cyberpunk) or ignore the reviews and keep going and most likely fail (Overwatch)

There is a reason why the game is being disliked right now and it is for a very good reason

[tawny swallow]

It is a competitive game, it's designed that way

[stable bobcat]

it was...

have you noticed...

competitive...

was removed

from the wording?

or you didnt realize it

there is no competitive

[tawny swallow]

It wasn't, they need to redesign so much for it

[stable bobcat]

game is not advertised as competitive focused

[tawny swallow]

But it's designed as competitive

[stable bobcat]

in which sense

the unfair ranked system?

because ranked has never been fair

and it will never be

it mixes stacks with solos

a ranked mode like that will never be competitive

being legend in open beta did mean anything?

I dont think so, there are bots in matches

[tawny swallow]

Ttk, amount of knowledge you need to have to understand anything, pvp system, amount of keys you need to use

[stable bobcat]

rank meant nothing

ranked queue is an engagement system

[tawny swallow]

It's not suited for casuals

[stable bobcat]

like idk

maybe you are expecting too much from a battle royale game?

november version was more competitive

it failed

[tawny swallow]

Not cause there were no grind and gacha XD

[onyx locust]

this is definitely one of the argument of all time

[stable bobcat]

anyway I gave my reasoning

we wont agree

we can agree to disagree

I like the new system, and I am a competitive player

I just dont like to play empty games

if the game turns a bit to casuals and has more players, thats a win

if the game just dies, was going to die anyway

it needed a big swing, and it got a big swing, veterans not liking it prove it

[tawny swallow]

Let's see if the system that dont respect the players and contradicting every other system in the game gonna help with building bigger playerbase

[stable bobcat]

wether you prefer to call something "not suitable for the game" or not, is your vision . I prefer to put myself in the skin of a new player getting oneshot by chipsa, why the fuck do I play this game

[tawny swallow]

Now Chipsa not only better skill wise but also stat wise, good game for casuals surely

[stable bobcat]

no but as a casual you can just stay in unranked and get some prisma

and progress in your armory

I do agree prisma should be easier to get from casuals

[onyx locust]

that's just bad player progression 💔

[stable bobcat]

prisma is too tryhard oriented yet

[gray crag]

I think supervive EA was perfectly suited for casuals
Hell I think it was only slightly harder to pick up for casuals than some other BR's like PUBG where mechanical skill plays a much bigger role

I agree about not liking playing empty games, but I also don't think how the game feels now is better than how it was & I don't think it's going to increase retention significantly (I also think a lot of the sentiment will be more negative due to forced retention, daily/weeklies cause this in general too)

I played the game in EA, as a casual, dipping my toes into ranked sometimes but not much
I don't play games to unlock everything for meta progression, I play them to play them & have fun

[stable bobcat]

actualle ye, will give that feedback

maybe casuals dont only enjoy getting the big chunk of prisma from quests (they actually do) they also want to get more from games

you basically got confirmation

of my assumption here

[gray crag]

Everything in that message was implemented in early access

It's the new stuff not in that message people are complaining about lul

Oh wait sorry, didn't see the word vehicles there, my bad

[stable bobcat]

1.0 is meant 1.0 as a whole not the only things we like about 1.0

[tawny swallow]

Ok whatever

[gray crag]

As i've said before
They completely changed the feel of the game for 1.0
They could've everything they said in that message, without changing the core feel of the game

[lucid flame]

I respect the commitment

I think 47% negative reviews that fit your criteria is significant enough for TC to look into doing something about the armory

I dont think its more likely to receive a positive review than a negative review

[stable bobcat]

it depends on their internal data of the new players

[lucid flame]

This is a big thing too obv i cant see the data for it beyond steam charts n shit

[stable bobcat]

the new version is meant to pull new people, as I thought and safelocked just confirmed

we dont really know how is it going

[lucid flame]

Player sentiment is an important metric to evaluate too

[stable bobcat]

if we get less peak but we keep more players, its a win

a game is developeable

with 20k players

the finals is

but with 1k players is just doing to close

if it manages to catch ppl and keep it... then its the way to go

if it fails, then it isnt

there is not other way than waiting I think

I didnt see a lot of newplayers complaining about it, there were some of course

a lot of new player concerns are bot matches, no ingame sensitivity

and just take a look on positive reviews and check new players giving feedback, they are playing a bunch after the review

that is a good sign

honestly, better sign than veterans dont willing to give a chance to the system, just straight off the bat commiting to give a bad review

again, I dont think steam reviews is anything very significant besides steam discovery algorythm

I think theorycraft has the correct and better data and they will be able to act accordingly

if for next season they do double-down on this, we know the answer

[flat garden]

I'm avoiding reviewing for now because if I do it's going to be negative. I'm hoping they hear the feedback and make changes, if they do I'll recommend the game. I had a fixed IRL friends trio that played the beta with me, they left the game because of this gacha and metaprogression, and now I'm having a hard time enjoying the game because playinga team game alone feels kinda bad

They went back to DotA, where they can play with any legend they want, make any build they want, for free, without any form of grind whatsoever

[flat garden]

I don't think they have until next season, they have to make a big change in a couple weeks tops

[lucid flame]

You can just change the review later

[flat garden]

But I don't want to leave a bad review and maybe push new players away :/

[lucid flame]

New players should be aware of this status of the game from other players point of view

[flat garden]

so sad

[cunning ruin]

Just make a positive review about the gameplay. Cus it's still pretty fire, armory is just fucking with it.

[lucid flame]

To deprive them of this right means you dont trust them to make decisions

[tawny swallow]

Nah, I just changed mine to a negative, cause I really wont be playing till prisma and lootboxes gone, sorry

[flat garden]

armory is good IMO, the gacha and metaprogression is what breaks the deal. If they just keep the armory, let us build loadouts for each legend, and unlock everything from the get go, the system is good

[lucid flame]

I did say in mine the gameplay was good

[flat garden]

gameplay is the best I've ever played in any moba or hero based game tbh

[lucid flame]

Probably should rewrite to rly highlight that I enjoy the gameplay

[cunning ruin]

I can understand it. I still think the gameplay is really goos but the whole lootboxes I'm not a huge fan of.

[flat garden]

Makes sense, but I can simply give the feedback here or through other channels, without hindering the overall image of the game to people that haven't played it yet

Do you think it won't be as impactful if I don't give them a thumbs down on steam?

[cunning ruin]

It'll prob have the same impact. But whether it actually impacts anything is up to them actually paying attention

[tawny swallow]

I also thought about it, but in the end decided that if I really want changes and think that armory is bad I need to act now

[onyx locust]

update great, UI is decent still very flawed, gliding I'm a mixed bag on, map changes are massive

the only really thing that's bringing it down is Armory

if that didn't exist this patch is a solid 7~8/10 in my book

[flat garden]

Just so I get the feeling, you guys dislike the existence armory when compared to the old itemization, or you like the armory but hate the grind, metaprogression and gacha?

[tawny swallow]

I like armory - I dont like prisma and lootboxes

[onyx locust]

my feelings on the armory is basically

Armory is great, just not for BR
Armory is bad for grinding, prisma and lootboxes sucks
Armory is bad for new players on top of restrictions from Hunter Pass
If we had a PvE everyone would be swooning over how great of a system armory is but we don't

it just doesn't have a place for BR

[cunning ruin]

People like the new items but don't like how you interact with them. Someone told me the "armory" is how you interact with the items so I've just been saying I dislike the armory

[onyx locust]

Armory is such a huge problem that number changing certain relics and equipment here and there will never fixed it

it's inherently flawed and broken in many ways

the only way to fix it is give everyone an equal acquisition of every item and I doubt that will ever happen given how far this is in development

they really thought that on top of revives being boosted up to 6 seconds, gold being nearly worthless now so revival beacons are more available to purchase, revival beacons drop on boss monsters, they added an armory item that speeds up revives and has a continous full revive on DEATHBOXES as an ARMORY item

how could anyone look at that and say it's fine

[tawny swallow]

they can easily transition armory system to something else, since items itself is already there, no?

[onyx locust]

transition it to old shopping system is a huge maybe

[flat garden]

:/

[onyx locust]

and I think it's better, not sure if it'll work, but personally I think it's better

[tawny swallow]

maybe they can do something like arena in League or new mode in overwatch with all those items

really shame that we got so many cool items to spoil it by prisma and boxes

[quick karma]

If we started with lv1 of each item at least so the grind is just to level stuff up I could see that but then we'd immediately solve for the best build on every character and it'd turn into a balancing nightmare/tightwire more than it already is.

[acoustic mica]

This is still gonna happen regardless

[quick karma]

well duh

But we're not speedrunning it yet because everyone will just cry skill issue or where's the replay or have you even played this stuff you're complaining about, etc.. etc..

If it's in the game that'd be the next "wall of bs" the devs get in a wave

[tawny swallow]

nah, people really want to defend the system where some players get better stats by rng and grind

[gray crag]

Maybe if they, idk, used Early access as a way to get early feedback on things like balancing, then that wouldn't be as large a concern

[quick karma]

lmfao

They should've beta'd this update and then made armory less "anti casual" "anti work" "anti people with any kind of life or other games they like" before the big hype launch day. I don't mind having a grind, this would be cool in a game like deep rock galactic. But right now it's just "well shit I literally have no haste, or no omnivamp, or no -insert basic damn mechanic that shouldn't be gated-"

although it currently says I have 25% discovered and I've only put a few hours in after work for a couple days so that's.. almost promising ig still not great.

[acoustic mica]

Why couldn’t this game give me a fun cosmetic grind 😭

[acoustic mica]

Does that 25% account for the 2-3 star upgrades?

[quick karma]

13% upgraded iirc, separate stat

[sinful iris]

Honestly if the grind part was for cosmetics on items and item effects i would literally love to grind it LMAO HOW COOL WOULD IT BEEE

but thats not what the system is for really

i would like them to just add that generally though

rng cosmetics is fun to me

[stable bobcat]

cosmetic grinds either outshine paid ones (very bad as the game needs ppl paying for cosmetics) or they are just ugly and nobody care about them is the problem of grinding cosmetics and why they are not engaging except for some exclusive f2p players

They are fine to have as long as they don't outshine paid ones for an option of f2p players but I'd not a good retention system

For example a legend glider is always better than a cool paid glider from the shop, but there are only 500 legends so the damage for the economy is not that big, and playerbase will discourage the other gliders (maybe not grandmaster glider) so the paid gliders will keep getting sales.

[peak crescent]

i don’t like lootboxes. but i love the new item system in the diversity it brings, and don’t mind saving my prisma

[peak crescent]

do we agree that the alternative to that is supervive.gg listing the best in slots for every hunter and 99 per cent of players mindlessly playing the exact same build? i know which one i find more creative

[onyx locust]

I don't understand why this is a bad thing. This is the equivalent of every competitive game, ever. No matter how much you roll it, people will play what they like or build what they want to build but at the end of the day at the very top of the ladder, everyone will be playing the same META build every single time because it's simply what's the best

Forcing players to try things out isn't exploring creativity, it's actively limiting their creativity to test things out. The fact that the thing you reached out for is citing external sources already invalidates this because it's not in the game itself

[cunning ruin]

Testing out builds myself has always been something I enjoy a lot in games like supervive. Aure I could just search up "hudson guide" theoretically and just run whatever build it tells me, but I'd find it way more fun to just create the builds myself even if they might not be "meta". And if I wanna run whatever is meta i don't see any reason to not allow it.

[peak crescent]

its not a bad thing in itself. it just vastly remove creativity in the item system . at least exploring items and thinking about how to adapt your playstyle to maximise them has a bit of it. And maybe you try something that ain’t perfect for your main but could be really cool on another character you like
I’m part of team “let all items be available in the forge”. but i do believe forcing the use of gap items, having to chose between two non optimal options leads to more creativity than everyone just gunning for the meta build

[narrow skiff]

Preventing people from picking what they want is not enhancing creativity, not that we even need more creative builds

[craggy vale]

I feel like the problem is that there will be a meta that develops regardless- if you look at the character channels on this server people are already talking about which relics are best on which characters in pretty solid terms. This just keeps people from playing the meta until they get lucky, which can lead to circumstances where someone gets rolled by what they know is the best build while forced to play something extraneous

I don’t know that that feels creative to me so much as arbitrary. I feel like creativity is a choice

which it would be if people had access to at least some level of all items from the start

[lucid flame]

i dont think supervive meta builds wil take over in the same way as league builds do

[peak crescent]

but the goal ain't the meta build, it's the items we tried along the way... 🙂 (joke) nah, i feel ya and i'd much rather be able to forge any item i want to go for specific things to try out. maybe its the old Wow player in me making me feel like incremental upgrades ain't that bad as long as you can get to where you want reasonably quickly. My main gripes with the complaints is that they talk like there's no player agency whatsoever when you can definitly kill people better geared than you are by playing well/smart, and it feels good.
I am having fun making the best of limited ressources at the moment, but I can see it getting old too

[lucid flame]

considering theres so many different ways to build a character

also league has op.gg and other sites that log builds. i think supervive only has 1 site like that and its pretty bad

so the meta builds are as available as they are in other games

[craggy vale]

yeahhh, also like the game definitely feels a lot more playable once you have the prerequisite reliqs for a character and it’ll be a nightmare to have that reset every few months

[woven thunder]

A bit nightmare was when i heard about they talk about this system before release

Now its huge terrible system that remove balance in game that have ranked system

Random item evolution with bonus stats was kinda strong but dont give so much impact

And everyone have it

[jaunty jewel]

yeah i think the items are really sick, itemization is really cool BUT the fact that the items are locked behind the gacha system is kinda odd. like, if they just re-did the entire item system and replaced the blade/helm/boots with all of these cool items, and then made it so the coin-based upgrading system from pre-1.0 was how you upgraded the new items to their 2-star and 3-star tier things

i think it would've been better received

[onyx locust]

"and then bring your game breaking loadout into every match"
https://youtu.be/PkL8gIbOrN4?t=29

[cunning ruin]

Using what thwy say for marketing is honestly pretty bad to use as why something is bad.

[stable bobcat]

Yeah... Definitely there is not some sort of review bombing attempt from anti-armory ppl :/

Imagine me from going to negative reviews and telling them like that to change to positive

[fiery topaz]

good

The mental gymnastics people are pulling to justify it is wild

[onyx locust]

are we really gonna act like there's not a lot of people are borderline harassing negative reviewers in the replies?

both sides have their bad sides

[fiery topaz]

Yes i already said just extract usefull shit and move on but were discussing this shit just like wether its good or bad system

its fkn trash

[stable bobcat]

Yeah but positive reviews are mostly from ppl experiencing the system, a huge amount of neg reviews just didn't even try to play the game .

Ofc I don't agree with the language that guy used , but I think it's normal to have a reactionary opinion when you see ppl putting negative reviews when they literally don't know what are they reviewing as they didn't even experience it

[onyx locust]

💀

[stable bobcat]

From time to time, positive reviews are finally coming to normal, now we are at 55 and it will keep increasing, as new players are enjoying the game and having fun with armory unlocks

[onyx locust]

You can't discuss in good faith Sykii. You think that's normal reaction? You see both sides of the story and do your utmost best to downplay the other one

you cannot be defending that

[stable bobcat]

I see his language is bad , I don't defend it

I don't defend any negative review with low game time or not 1.0 game time at all

Or with bad faith like calling it p2w

When everyone knows it's not

Can you show me the negative review with that answer?

[onyx locust]

https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561198118805951/recommended/1283700/

[stable bobcat]

Early access review

He didn't even open the game on 1.0

I don't defend the language

I understand he is pissed off

From seeing that

[viscid mural]

Bumping this because it seems we have a dispute on what is considered a valid review again.

[onyx locust]

Because it's not a 1.0 review

[fiery topaz]

u guys are more ill than me

congratz

[viscid mural]

Actually fuck it I'll just post the whole message again. Less scrolling involved

[fiery topaz]

ye

[stable bobcat]

Then??? I don't give a fuck about a may review and it's not reviewing armory

I thought It was an armory review

[fiery topaz]

i cn respect that miles

[onyx locust]

But if you want a 1.0 review this came from one review
https://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561199032206060/recommended/1283700

[stable bobcat]

Why would u make me lose time on that xd

[viscid mural]

"After skimming this discussion it seems like there's just a gap in explanation between you guys haha.

Sykii is saying (to my understanding) that reviews about Armory from before 1.0 launched are invalid because the players hadn't even used the system and are leaving a pre-emptive bad review based on zero experience with a change. Sykii is also saying (again to my understanding) that reviews with exceptionally small time played can be considered invalid for a similar reason. Finally the last thing I think I picked up from my skimming is that some reviews are just straight up bad faith reviews that are either personal attacks or have blatantly false information in them."

[stable bobcat]

Yeah he played, fair review

The game is not for everyone

I never complain about a review like that

I do en outage players to try the game anyway

Encourage*

I disagree personally with it, is fine if that's his opinion

[onyx locust]

and you see that there is harassment around it in the comments by people who are fine/love with 1.0

it's not just "armory bad let's reviewbomb"

it's both sides having bad sides and not a representative of the entire body

[stable bobcat]

There are no positive review bombing going in

There is a negative review bombing going in

And you can see it by watching the reviews individually

[onyx locust]

there is harassment in negative reviews from positive reviewers for 1.0 as you can see

[stable bobcat]

I am also talking about the reviews itself

[onyx locust]

Invalidating reviews under one hour is flawed in itself. Yes reviewing a game under one hour can be seen as hasty or just reviewing for the sake of it. But the average playtime of a new player going in or trying something out in an existing game or a new game is under 30 minutes

There is simply no way to force players beyond that time limit because if you can't hook them those first few minutes then the rest of the game no matter how good it is, you never let them see it

there are many, MANY studies backing that 30 minute claim

[stable bobcat]

Most low playtime reviews are veterans, most of them

[onyx locust]

it includes them

[stable bobcat]

If there were new players it would be alarming for me

[stable bobcat]

I did check every review from 24/25

There are a huge amount of new players on positive reviews

[onyx locust]

why would veterans immediately hate on a game they have been supporting/following since beta

[stable bobcat]

There are an alarming low playtime 1.0 veteran amount of players on negative reviews

[onyx locust]

there has been no one that has ever been more excited for 1.0 than veterans

armory is a bomb that dropped out of nowhere that we didn't even see

[stable bobcat]

Because the game has shifted it's demographic orientation , it's not oriented to sweaty tryhards only right now. They feel betrayed and they do reactionary negative reviews

They don't care if the game dies or not

They just want their version

Without even trying the new version

That's bad

[viscid mural]

I can see your point and it has validity to it. But isn't the point of a game review to review the product as a whole and not just a singular feature or section of it?

I feel like those reviews are inherently flawed as they haven't experienced the meat of the product, just the onboarding. An example I can give would be any show or game that is FANTASTIC... but only after you get through an unimpressive opening sequence or season.

[stable bobcat]

That is why their reviews are bad, they only ask for armory to be removed, not for tweaking it so it's better for them. Why?

Because they didn't even try the version, they don't have constructive feedback to give, they just say REMOVE ARMORY YADA YADA YADA.

[onyx locust]

you see your whole argument is based on just a "feeling" just as everyone who have discussed this with you. You assume veterans didn't try it, you assume they just left a bad review for the sake of leaving a bad review, you assume that they didn't review how the new system works

But trust me they did. No one wants to see this game fail and the fact that they cared enough to leave a review says something about how much they care still for the game

Trust me, it takes less than 15 minutes to open the game and play through a game because that's what happened with me

[onyx locust]

if you dragged me to a Circus and the first thing I see are rusty screws and a shaky rollercoaster I am not gonna go in there with you

[stable bobcat]

The circus included a pre-show with clowns directed to younger kids so the circus has more attendants overall and you are not going because you don't want the circus to have more attendants, you just want the tiger show without the balloon show

[onyx locust]

h u h

[stable bobcat]

Supervive included the armory so it has more players and it can survive, but you just want the version that had no players at all, even if it means the game will die

That is the summary

[fiery topaz]

u guys

[onyx locust]

its almost like the game was in open beta where the advertising died and more than a majority of the sponsored streamers who played the game stopped playing

[fiery topaz]

would make a nice e couple

[viscid mural]

Well I guess you'll miss the bioluminescent golden duck around the corner that can cook you a michelin star meal then.

My point is that you should include the bad in a review, but you also have a duty to include a take on the meat of an experience, not just an exerpt. A lot of these reviews have clicked in the game, seen 1 system, and left a review that paints the whole of the game as bad, despite the inherent good of the gameplay behind it.

[stable bobcat]

Btw china doesn't have armory and their version is not thriving precisely, I am checking bilibili daily and it does not look good for them

China is the game you guys would love

Now go and check it

[fiery topaz]

with or without some system the gamd aint finished

[stable bobcat]

And see what's going on

[onyx locust]

the game is still in open beta in china where it's unfinished that's a shocker

[fiery topaz]

game need another year minimum in development with a non bi polar dev team

[stable bobcat]

No it's not unfinished

Is our version

Without armory

[viscid mural]

Call me crazy but a review should probably review the entire product.

That'd be my biggest issue with steam reviews overall.

[stable bobcat]

Is unfinished because it doesn't have armory

China is the version you guys want

[fiery topaz]

das just ur opinion

which is fine

[agile hound]

I mean the armory is objectively bad for competitive integrity in a game with ranked modes. Aren't mobas and battle royales the type of games where you get a fresh start in the next match if you didn't perform in one?

[onyx locust]

consumers does not have the duty for anything. They consume and if they don't wanna consume the whole thing that will be entirely up to them. Same reason as to how it's the devs' duty to have a great onboarding process where new players can't just look at the system and say "oh, this is bad, this is really really bad"

[stable bobcat]

Ye ,it's not marketed towards hard competitive players anymore

[fiery topaz]

imagine trying to make a inherently competitive pvp game not competitive whatsoever

this is like

a higschooler could out perform this logic

[stable bobcat]

I will send you bilibili link for Livestream from work, I reached it yesterday

You will check game is not thriving

[fiery topaz]

neh fk china

no need to see that

[onyx locust]

Notice how so much gacha games in Steam have so many not recommended reviews simply because they're a gacha? that's pretty much what it is. But notice also how those gacha games are mostly positive on Steam? It's because they're an established niche and people are willing to sit through the cesspool that is gacha currency and pulling simply because they like the game

[fiery topaz]

koreans #1

[viscid mural]

Not a legal duty, but we as people do have a moral duty to engage with the world around us in a thoughtful and respectful way. Especially when using a public platform that can sway other real people's financial decisions.

That's probably the last I'l say on this topic. Feeling sick and not in the mood to debate haha

[fiery topaz]

ye

in league i dont give two fucks about what bullshit they are pulling cos game is good

if game was shit

id aready be long gone

now use that simplified logic to ur average gamer considering suoervive

[onyx locust]

gacha system in League is genuinely so shit, $500 for some mid ahh skin 😭

[fiery topaz]

= byebye

[fiery topaz]

ye

missing half the effects n shit

idk wtf they are smoking at riot

but tge gameplay turbo good

[agile hound]

I'd argue it's not as good anymore. It just has enough players to keep the game going, and it won't die. Big part of mobas is champion identity, and you need to keep people liking your heroes. You like to show off your favorite champ with skins? There's a chance you get a 500 usd one now, in a gacha system. People are right being pissed at riot rn

[fiery topaz]

so if they enjoy being idiots at the office aye enjoy it some more ug

[charred crater]

One thing I'd like to add to these discussions is that there are a lot of people who play games "casually" and also play a lot. its tough to talk about who a system is for when people use casual to mean people who dont engage with competitive and also mean people who dont play many games

there's overlap but these arent the same group

[fiery topaz]

ye they are in their own right

But im aware that whatever people feel dont matter as much as initially is perceived

thats why ppl endlessly talk shit about the game but it does nothing at all

then pll mental gymnastics again and say well yeah ppl are just addicted

[fiery topaz]

yes

[onyx locust]

What I'm trying to say after all of this are, Steam reviews are mixed/negative for a reason. And it's for a good reason. If the game is good, everyone would be rating it as positive, but as the game as it is right now, it is not. Reviewbomb or not, there will always, ALWAYS be a reason why a side feels that way and it won't just be coming out of their asses

You can force people to play the game for hours, magically change vets into first time players and they'll still echo the same reviews that they are. Stop saying "if" stop saying "when" stop saying "how much"

Start saying "how can we change this" because saying what you really think instead of coating it with words and saying things like "everything's great actually!" when half of the playerbase saying it isn't then maybe you should question why they feel it that way and leave your own review

Trust me Steam reviews are trusted and used a tool for many new players and the industry alike to gauge if a game is good before someone even touches the game.

Helldivers, No Man's Sky, literally incredibly negative games for a part of their lifetime but they listened to their feedback and look at their game. Very Positive on Steam, that is insane

Now look at Overwatch. They dropped everything on their playerbase and the reason for the creation of the sequel. Everyone hated them for it. Look at their game, overwhelmingly negative on Steam. And the devs have the balls to say that it will just "pass" and will continue to ignore player feedback. But look at them today, still the same and the queue times are so bad someone completed a Minecraft game for 2 hours while in queue. Shows how dead that game is

All I'm asking is to just stop looking at the game through rose-tinted glasses. . A lot of the people don't like it and maybe we should start understanding why and see what Theorycraft will do with this feedback

[acoustic mica]

funny enough those transcendent tier skins you don’t gacha for

[agile hound]

Casuals can 100% stop playing because of not understanding an integrated system as important as loot in a BR game. Loot is everywhere here, they can get overwhelmed.

[acoustic mica]

only exalted/mythic variant

rip to the Ahri mains cause that new mythic variant slaps

[charred crater]

not sure what you're responding to

[fiery topaz]

Id gladly take more people that u ferstand into my team of reddit professionals XD

[charred crater]

not something i said for sure!

[fiery topaz]

This is mostly atraight w post byw

[onyx locust]

if you think the conversations about armory in the discord is intense, don't go in reddit, it's straight up just toxicity oozing from both sides. Both positive toxicity and negative 😭

[acoustic mica]

isn’t ow in its best state it’s ever been

[fiery topaz]

why u think i only read and dont reply on that shit

[agile hound]

Oh, I was pointing out that despite systems being designed for either casuals or competitive players, both get affected. I thought your comment was tackling that issue, but maybe got it a bit wrong

[acoustic mica]

took them way too long but I’ve only seen positive reception recently

[fiery topaz]

most subhuman smeagols are redditors

[onyx locust]

no not really, it's still really bad. Game is such a joke people are making stuff like this

https://x.com/aspenisoffline/status/1948167103309111372

Aspen (@aspenisoffline)

I BEAT MINECRAFT FOR THE FIRST TIME IN AN OVERWATCH QUEUE LETS GOOOOOOOOOO. 9.4 HOUR SPEEDRUN

X · Jul 23, 2025, 11:43 PM

Average Supervive arena queue times

[fiery topaz]

XD

[acoustic mica]

LMAO

[fiery topaz]

damn wonder why ppl like that stick with the game

for sure its not the fameplay

and its some cancer system

[acoustic mica]

average top 500 queue

[fiery topaz]

thats keeping them hooked

fixing supervive literally so easy at this point i could cry

[acoustic mica]

I like 5v5/6v6/Perks/Map voting/ hero bans/ and stadium

[fiery topaz]

ye not all blizzard does is bad

they just suck overall

these nice additions just come too late or we

on the baxk of lies about pve

etc etc

[onyx locust]

I will just never forgive them with the whole PvE fiasco. leading on people for years then firing people for it and then cancelling it, will never trust them again

[fiery topaz]

ye

[acoustic mica]

you can blame Jeff Kaplan for that

[fiery topaz]

gameplay good but now theres competition to ur gamrplay

oh oh……

see how simple that shit works man

garbage is fucked on i stantly once competition is allowed to exist

[agile hound]

I'm just joining this discussion cuz I like the game a lot, but can't even recommend it to my friends to try it because they noticed I was opening loot boxes to get items. Have the devs mentioned something about the feedback on armory?

[acoustic mica]

This is exactly why I can’t recommend it either

it’s so cringe

[fiery topaz]

Ye

the fact this even made it into the game

is an issue

[acoustic mica]

They were so confused so I just used my “imagine downloading league of legends locking in soraka but can’t buy moonstone renewer yet cause you didn’t loot box enough” and they were turned off immediately

[fiery topaz]

I havent even reinstalled the game and im fully confident id dislike it

[fiery topaz]

lmfaooo

[agile hound]

Yeah, it's awful. Teamfights are way too fun to not recommend it, but I can't really try to convince them to try it. They are right about the loot boxes lol

[fiery topaz]

this made me wanna get up and start my day ty gang

[agile hound]

But how did this make it to live servers? My friends and I tried the game in beta, and already thought the systems were too clustered and had a hard time understanding items. Armory just makes it worse 😦

[acoustic mica]

The old version of the game wasn’t retaining players so they had to try something extreme I guess

[fiery topaz]

they keep saying this to ppl

n ppl slowly brainwashed to believe the game needs to turn into afghanistan from being netherlands to make it survive

https://x.com/playSUPERVIVE/status/1949188631857631557

SUPERVIVE (@playSUPERVIVE)

🥊WATCH THESE LEAGUE ALL-STARS IN SUPERVIVE!🥊

NetEase is hosting a CN vs. KR showmatch, with players like Ning, bzzb, Otto, 冷少, Korol, and Smlz from China VS. PraY, MaRin, MadLife, Pawn, Dade, Looper, and more from Korea!

JULY 27 - 7:30pm CN time / 4:30am PT
STREAM LINK ⬇️

X · Jul 26, 2025, 7:22 PM

Meanwhile showmatches with pros from league

[stable bobcat]

https://live.bilibili.com/p/eden/area-tags?parentAreaId=2&areaId=991

[fiery topaz]

competivie or not whats it gonna be

[stable bobcat]

here u guys have

https://live.bilibili.com/p/eden/area-tags?parentAreaId=2&areaId=991

bilibili

the supervive version you want

the version you think would be played by thousands

[fiery topaz]

what?

why u projecting

[stable bobcat]

?

dont u want armory gone

because u think game would have more players without it?

[fiery topaz]

yes?

no

lol

[stable bobcat]

???

[acoustic mica]

I hate the armory at its current form so I’ll continue complaining about it till it gets better :/

[stable bobcat]

then xd

game needs players

[fiery topaz]

who says without armory

game doesnt have something else in place

[onyx locust]

PraY Marin and Madlife oh that enemy team is cooked LMAOOOO

[stable bobcat]

tey are not on te same team

tose pros

are on different teams

with alfa chinese legend playuers

every team will have chinese/kr alpha players

[acoustic mica]

I could sell supervive to my friends much easier if I can say yeah there’s rng item unlocks but you can pick stuff to slowly work towards

[stable bobcat]

and the pro

[acoustic mica]

but since i can’t, I won’t recommend it

[fiery topaz]

nobody i interact with outside of supervive

would try it

even then

[stable bobcat]

yeah thats fine, we did tell jess yesterday the system would need a way of targeting items

so ppl like you is happier

but keeping the rng progression as well

at the same time

[fiery topaz]

no

the rng is not worth the value u think it brings

[stable bobcat]

it does for casual players

my friends are having fun

screensharing

when they open capsules

[fiery topaz]

no

[stable bobcat]

they like it

[fiery topaz]

is that helping to increase playerbase?

[stable bobcat]

yes

[acoustic mica]

I hate the current rng but if it keeps people playing then w.e

[stable bobcat]

they would not play otherwise

[fiery topaz]

just make systems good but let the game suck

np

[stable bobcat]

they genuenly enjoy the capsules

I give them everyday the twitter code etc

[fiery topaz]

ye i know

[stable bobcat]

they are having fun

[fiery topaz]

but thats not gonna create 200k players that will not leave

ppl can gamble somewhere else

[stable bobcat]

as long as it helps keeping the players its gathering, it does

[fiery topaz]

game itself has uniquw potentisl

its gathering little to no players

its destroying more than it helps

[stable bobcat]

its gathering more than I expected

because the game was seen dead

from outside already

is so hard

to pull players

on a dead game

[fiery topaz]

lol

[stable bobcat]

the finals did a lot of marketing for season 2

they didnt increase players on s2

they just kept

[fiery topaz]

i think even just the new map would have created similar day 1 player count

[stable bobcat]

because the finals is seen as dead

from outside

by FPS players

why would they play the finals

[fiery topaz]

its full release how are u considering armory to be equal to that r smthng

[stable bobcat]

there are 200 fps iwth more players

there arent many BR with meta progression that blend MOBA and BR out there

thats the catch of supervive rn

[fiery topaz]

i give up

[viscid mural]

Man rip the finals. Horrendous cheating problems really gutted any fun to be found in that game.

Otherwise totally banger game

(Minus the ai voiceover of course)

[acoustic mica]

isnt the finals also doing fine?? They always have a constant 10k+ player count on steam and i assume way better numbers on console

screw the armory i need supervive to come to consoles

[quick karma]

Wtf it's 3 for level two and 6 for level three?

[acoustic mica]

5 for 3 star but yes

[fiery topaz]

hahaha

[quick karma]

Rip this game I refuse

[fiery topaz]

enjoy ur road to rank 3

[quick karma]

Season is only 3 months so I just have to play without half the items or maybe 1-2 lv3 items when many have crazy mods when leveled.

Only to get wiped again

Some bs

[fiery topaz]

ye im sure that feels ok

when they add new itsms to armory

so it will be even harder to get what u want

[quick karma]

I play video games approx 16 hours a week and this basically just time gated me not just from half the content but from making any decent builds going into people with triple the ability haste or vamp or other crazy mods on stuff

[stable bobcat]

It's doing decent yes, still far away from the 200k from open bera

[quick karma]

Literally no hope of completing this armory in any given season

[stable bobcat]

That is why I am saying supervive needs a email playerbase and keep it, like the finals

[stable bobcat]

You will have catch-ups the longer the season goes

[acoustic mica]

I hope a controller layout gets worked on to add this game to consoles I really do believe this game can be comfy on a controller

[stable bobcat]

Yeah also it's viable on mobiles ngl

But they need players, some atleast

[quick karma]

Still playing at a perpetual disadvantage when the every round was an even playing field before

[stable bobcat]

To justify it

[stable bobcat]

The catch ups are meant to make you not be at a significant disadvantage, ever

You will unlock items super fast at some point of the season if you feel behind the curve

[fiery topaz]

impossible

[stable bobcat]

Possible

[fiery topaz]

straight delusion

[stable bobcat]

That is how this system always works

[fiery topaz]

xDd

[stable bobcat]

You join 1 month into the season, you unlock everything faster than anyone on the start of the season

[quick karma]

People used to look at old builds and think 20% haste was a big deal now we've got 35% from a single item. If you don't have that item or it's not maxed as an example you get 15% haste maybe 25% but that's half or more of your build gone in opportunity cost to match another players' single item.

It's not just numbers

[fiery topaz]

u still have to unlock so ur still at disadvantage gg

[stable bobcat]

Having that item maxed at any given point before 2 months is near impossible

[fiery topaz]

didnt know this is an mmorpg

my bad

[quick karma]

Right?

[stable bobcat]

Yeah that is why I also said that capsules should prioritize first unlocks before dupes, to remove rng

I suggested it to jess

[quick karma]

Gonna play the closed Drakantos beta

[stable bobcat]

I want you guys to have a better time

[fiery topaz]

i will not install this game cos my faith in devs is gone

they had entire year

[stable bobcat]

First unlocks priority+ way of targeting items should make you feel better about the system

[stable bobcat]

And they made something fun

[fiery topaz]

and it only got worse so

[stable bobcat]

Subjetivw

[quick karma]

Yea I've said this a few times too. Make everything lv1 for everyone at start so we're at least open to make builds and level things up or at least make it only 1 dupe per level instead of needing like 40K prisma for a single item on top of several layers of RNG and being locked out of everything like chumps playing at the poor table with the high rollers

[fiery topaz]

no im sorry its not subjective

but im not gonna lay out the framework with one million words as to why

[stable bobcat]

It is, its your opinion is subjetive, mine is also, because I like the system

[fiery topaz]

its not my opinion

[stable bobcat]

Yeah I agree it needs tweaks

[viscid mural]

If there are no stats backing a fact, it's an opinion

[fiery topaz]

my opinion is that game can be fine if they tweak shit

[stable bobcat]

So you guys feel better

[fiery topaz]

reality is that potential has ben gutted

[quick karma]

Don't gotta be patronizing lol

[fiery topaz]

xD

he talks to jess

dont offend him

[quick karma]

System is creative and promotes a pretty fun build theory type loop but it's pretty terrible to interact with

[quick karma]

Several people in this channel do and have several times it's not special

[viscid mural]

reality is often just what we perceive it to be.

It's cool to have your own take on things, but literally none of us can say for certain what level of potential a game has.

It's literally all vibes based lol

[fiery topaz]

im just joking around no stress

[fiery topaz]

Im sorry again im just too autistic to agree, i see what ur saying and ur right in that sense but at the same time alternatives exist. Im not equal to other people in the good and the bad just like in many ways pll can be diff

[narrow skiff]

Wait I am really confused, why does china not have armory?

Are we just beta testing the system for china or what, why arent we playing the same stuff

[quick karma]

Excuse me wtf

[narrow skiff]

Am i missing something?

[undone orchid]

Lol

[stable bobcat]

I tried to give feedback yesterday, I tyhink you too, on the 5h jess chat

[stable bobcat]

they are technically on open beta

they will get armory anyway

but its fine

[quick karma]

This system would be much more suited to mmorpg, or pve like deep rock galactic and risk of rain. This is a pvp game and you should always feel like everyone's starting on the same level and skill is the main decisive element. Full stop. The older system had its flaws but there was no "meta progression" to get better runs over time like this is dark cells lol.

[quick karma]

Lucky them

[stable bobcat]

devs are just getting confirmation that old system does not suit with the game to keep players

just look bili bili numbers

unless there is somewhere another livestream page

this does not look good

[quick karma]

Battle pass was okay. Holding me hostage and telling me my game is worse if I don't tamahotchi obsess it is going to cost more players than it keeps I think

[fiery topaz]

xi jing ping said faka gamba bad gamab if want gamba need good gamba

[stable bobcat]

its 4 am in china

its lae

[narrow skiff]

If they were at all confident in the system they would just release it over there as well

[stable bobcat]

they are confident, china doesnt have it for logistic concerns

anyway

there you have

some streams

to watch the game without armory

[scenic thunder]

Armory is good, gacha is bad. I just want to play this game without any unnecessary limitations. Why limit players with annoying gates if you want them to play your game?

[stable bobcat]

and see what would happen

[fiery topaz]

stop saying this

as if its an arguement or point

[stable bobcat]

majority of negative reviews say "revert armory"

there they have the w/o armory version

[fiery topaz]

ok but we are not steam reviews

can u wake up

[narrow skiff]

That they can't play

[fiery topaz]

just link it to them then

[stable bobcat]

steam reviews is what is being given as a strong point as why armory is bad

this thread is about it

its what itslimbo means

[narrow skiff]

"If you don't like armory you can just watch a Chinese stream without it"

[fiery topaz]

its limbo is limbo dancing irl

i think

[stable bobcat]

and you can realize the game without the system is not better as its not exploding precisely

[fiery topaz]

lol

if it didnt have armory it would have gotten smthng else

or improved in diff ways

[narrow skiff]

I assume launch in Asia is imminent? If progress resets I wouldn't play now too

It's not a apples to apples comparison

[stable bobcat]

progress wont reset

game is launched as open beta

maybe if the game failed they will brand it as re-launch 1.0 like on the west

but Im sure they will just get armory patch 1/2 months as usual content patch

[stable bobcat]

only items without progression would really make a difference?

i didnt stop playing supervive because items were boring

[fiery topaz]

???

Is that what i said?