#Hudson requests

400 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

ruby sparrow
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So I have quite a few request for hudson. i'm not going to give ideas on how to do what i think should be done, i'm just gonna request it in this post as something i really want on him.

  1. his dash NEEDS to be faster. his dash is so slow people side step it when i try to go for the wire combo you guys tried to emphasize

    • ik a lot of people hate how it's his dash used instead of another knockback ability but i personally think it's fine, i absolutely love the combo it's just rarely ever possible to do it

  2. lower his dash cd. a character with some an emphasis on using their dash for dmg either needs to be able to get it back reliably(like joule or shiv) or they need to be able to have their dash up when they'd need it. but hudson doesn't have any of those and a lower dash cd would really help. and you can't just run dash haste items cus hudson needs other stats so much dash haste is just worse than the other stats.

  3. his wires need to either control or be good for burst damage, rn it's neither. i'm fine with either route, or you guys could try to do both(it would definitely be possible to do both), . make him a controller, or make him a burst damager.

  4. LOWER HIS WIRE COOLDOWN pls 🥺 rn i literally never have them up in time and it's so dumb

  5. for the love of god make someone get punished when they dash into my wires and walk through them. hudson can never really effectively punish people in his wires, it's almost entirely up to his team and it feels stupid

  6. allow hudson to make shorter dashes. the shortest dash hudson can do is still too long half the time. it was probably done to make it easier to do the combo but it just fucks me up more than anything.

  7. he should do 300 dmg on ram regardless of if spun up or not.

  8. he um... no longer heals enough on knock. the amount he healed from his old passive was perfect, 250 just isn't enough by itself(it was honestly too much with passive and 250)

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also please notice ho non of this is related to his rmb. DO NOT BUFF HIS RMB, if anything nerf it and make other stuff stronger.

ruby sparrow
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Also the fact hudson can't do anything against half the cast is so dumb. It'd be fine if it was only like 1 character that didn't let him play the game but it's nit just one character. It's at least 10, and that is simply too many

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Also increase his ms, too fat and too slow to dodge shit without dashing and it's stupid

silent garnet
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I'm going to have to hard disagree with everything requested here

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do not give hudson any buffs... we do not need another hudson meta

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I can refute every single argument here but what I will say has probably already been said elsewhere

tidal sphinx
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Don't worry, he'll be fixed with the rework when it hits!

hallow haven
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The 5th Rework will fix him

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Surely!

ruby sparrow
# silent garnet do not give hudson any buffs... we do not need another hudson meta

Imagine if when you hit a ghost nade there was literally no follow up. That is hudson's wires rn.

I've been saying the same thing for fucking months, buff his wires. The thing that made hudsin meta suck was how he'd just hold 2 buttons and win. And notice how I literally even said to nerf his fucking rmb. People can't fathom allow hudson to have his wires do fucking anything and are like you and complain about wanting his tool to do fucking anything.

Tf is ao bad about wanting his wires to fuxking do anything? The fact you guys don't want them to do anything, cus literally every character other than joule fucking ignores them like they're nothing. Cus they're basically just decorations.

I WANT HIS WIRES TO FUCKING DO ANYTHING, but mb for expect my tool to do anything other than just sit there and get destroyed in half a second. It's so stupid how people treat hudson.

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U guys always complain about hudson buffs, the thing that you guys don't like is how he could win by holding 2 buttons. So make it so he doesn't win like that??? And that's literally fucking what I'm asking for.

silent garnet
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Ill respond in a minute

nocturne tapir
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No

silent garnet
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They take forever for any character without explosive damage to break and if you get stuck in them you either take 50-80% of your health in less than 2 seconds or get killed from already being low. On top of this just the sheer durability for the ability is enough to deter people from even interacting with it half of the time.

If you catch someone in a choke with one and box them into an area, they are screwed. And this isn't even factoring that there's 2 other players on your team contributing to the damage of snared enemies

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You're asking for a lower cooldown however that would just make their uptime infinite. Considering how hard they are to destroy. Allowing hudson to permanently deploy these wires would be a forever deterant

ruby sparrow
ruby sparrow
ruby sparrow
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And they have like no durability so how tf can you even mention that? Cus that isn't a fucking thing. You guys love the fact that literally every hunter other than joule just ignores his wires, cus fuck hudson and fuxk me for wanting them to do something.

ruby sparrow
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Or look at this how I couldn't do any meaningful dmg while the person was in my wires, even if i ended ul killing him it's just cua he didn't go for a direct nade

silent garnet
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I'm at dinner but can respond to this in detail later.

But I just looked at this clip and it did exactly what it's supposed to do. Notice how the ghost couldn't do anything to go through the wire and chucked 50% of his hp just walking into it and taking a few bullets. Not to mention you missed about half of them, if you had not, his hp bar would have been tanked.
On top of that he dashed, shot, and rmbed the wire and it was still alive. That thing has an insane amount of health on it, and you have 2 charges for them

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@ruby sparrow

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His wire in not supposed to be a "oh I walked into it so now I just die." As it is, there is already hardly any counter play to them, and now you are proposing to make it harder to get out of. Thats not a balanced mechanic

silent garnet
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Because that's just not true

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Show me which characters that which do not have explosive damage (which is the majority of the cast) that break his wire in seconds

ruby sparrow
# silent garnet Show me which characters that which do not have explosive damage (which is the m...

Ghost, saros, brall, elluna, oath, felix, eva. Quite a few who destroy his wires before they can do anything.

And it is fucking true. Almost every game my wires get destroyed almost instantly after I place them. You don't play hudson and that is VERY clear, his wires do almost nothing 99% of the time and I've been asking for them to do something about it due to just how frustrating it is for your tool to do fucking nothing; then people like you are like "it's fine that 99% of the cast gets to completely ignores your tool", if it was like this on literally any other character this entire discord would be full of complaints. But it's on Hudson, and people either don't play him at all or rarely if ever use his wires cus they can just use other stuff in his kit and do just fine.

ruby sparrow
# silent garnet This seems to be what you're advocating for which is simply not balanced https:/...

The person doesn't have a dash or smth? Also note the first ghost literally got 80% of his health vanished by that myth and zeph, and your complaining about Hudson's wires with that clip?

And thats fucking endless reaper being op not hudson's wires. Again, why using that clip to call his wires strong does not make sense.

I jave always said endless reaper is strong on Hudson for that exact reason, but that doesn't not mean his wires by themselves are strong. And no hunter should almost require other tools to make their tool work at fucking all.

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That clip just doesn't make sense cua that was cus of ENDLESS REAPER, not his wires being strong

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The only character that c an even match how string endless reaper is in hudson is kp. Yet i don't see people using endless reaper clips to call kp op or anything.

ruby sparrow
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Also i just realized you might've misunderstood smth. Giving his wires a legit 4 seconds cd won't cause hudson to be able to do that. Even just a simple 2 seconds cd reduction would impact him a lot more than you'd think but it won't let him do that stuff. Cus that's just endless reaper doing it's thing

tidal sphinx
silent garnet
# ruby sparrow Also i just realized you might've misunderstood smth. Giving his wires a legit 4...

I dont need to play hudson on the daily to know how the hunter works and what would and would not be healthy changes.

I played through the Hudson meta like everyone else on open beta launch and it was not healthy for the game. The proposed changes above return us to a hudson meta.

I want you to prove to me with clips that your wires are being broken fast, because that's just not the case.

Even if it was. I argue that his wires should be easier to destroy and not take 10+ autos for anyone with non explosive damage to destroy.

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Im up for compromise where you get more of a movement debuff when you walk into the wires as long as they're easily breakable. However that doesn't seem to be what you are advocating for. You want both high durability and added functionality.

You cant have your cake and eat it too.

You also did not just mention about the wires. In this post you are advocating for other extremely oppressive buffs.

Lower dash cooldown and faster dash, 300 damage on ram regardless of if spun up, increased knock heal, and shorter dash options (shorter dash options I don't particularly have an issue with on paper but idk how long it is currently I don't want hudson to be wave dashing across the map with a 0.1 second dash because he glided after shifting)

It seems from this post that you are trying to make hudson something he is not. It's not healthy for a single character to be able to do everything.

fair dove
toxic walrus
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Hudson is unironically in the most balanced state he’s ever been in right now

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Spades has been playing him for mb and I haven’t watched a ton of their games but it seems to be working meaning he has at least some competitive viability

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This really seems to me like “I main this character so I want them to be op”

toxic walrus
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Yeah what jack said basically

odd mesa
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I don’t know of he’d be effective without that.

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TLD was also trying it yesterday

toxic walrus
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yeah ult is a big part of it

silent garnet
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His ult is an objective gigafarmer

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Now I'm curious what happens if two Hudsons ult the same boss

toxic walrus
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probably first hudson to ult gets prio

silent garnet
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That interaction just keeps the mob or person in the middle

toxic walrus
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true

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it wouldn't be hard to find out

ruby sparrow
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Also you guys are pretty much only mentioning scrims. The only place he fucking works at all.

ruby sparrow
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Also like... who tf would save clips of that?

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And cus my pc fucking broke i don't have access to anything. People have constantly dashed into my wires and i can't do anything about it other than pray for the love of god my team even looks at the person, supposedly that's fine cus scrims exist. And it's so stupid. Make it so he works by himself, nope cus acrims exist. Make it so his wires feel more satisfying, nope cus scrims exist. Make it so the dash ram combo is even a thing, nope cus scrims exist.

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His dash needs to be faster if they want him to even be able to do the ram combo and for him to actually be able to dodge stuff more reliable, cus is hudson is on the middle of a zeph nade his dash is legit just too slow to get out. Void snap isn't that possible to dodge by going to the side if the void can aim at fucking all.

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And the fact he can kinda get dived for free, but yea that's also fine cus scrims exist

ruby sparrow
# silent garnet Im up for compromise where you get more of a movement debuff when you walk into ...

The thing is if his wires easily break they would mean even less than they already do. Im very specific choke points his wires can actually work but if they were easily breakable they wouldn't work regardless of the slow. But I say they should slow more regardless cus people have dashed into my wires many times and been completely fine.

I do have clips but there on my hard drive and I don't get new psu for couple weeks so I can't access them. And it's not some common thing either, it happens so so much.

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When he gets a kill well he is being dived he is still dead(why i asked for him to heal more)
His wires barely control if the enemy has fucking eyes, unless it's in very specific choke points or with endless reaper. The burst damage you can do with wires tends to just send them through the wires, and without follow up his wires mean nothing.
Dash too slow to dodge quite a few stuff, and it's especially too slow to use offensively.
If you full dash at fucking all you're just dead. And you tend to have to full dash to use it offensively, which i swear they were trying to emphasize.
I almost never ever have my wires up in time even when running a tech blade, then if I run double tech I'm extremely vulnerable to dives, but that's also fine cus scrims exist.
Then half the cast basically says "fuck you for wanting to play the game" to hudson. But that would also be fine cus scrims exist.

ruby sparrow
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Something that has always been true and is still true for hudson, is how it's not how good you are it's how good your team is. You can almost never really take advantage of your wires as hudson but your team can, ult is your only real reliable damage on hudson. And yea, that's why he works in scrims but nowhere else. And ofc all of this is fine, cus scrims.

Mb for wanting my tools to work by themselves without just having to pray my teammates take advantage of them because I fucking can't.

ruby sparrow
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This is a really bad example but it's the beat I got with the clips available cua my pc is fried rn.
(I am not saying this to call this player bad)

The joule could've lived. If she tried to get out of my wires she then dashes and ukts half way across the map. If she did the fastest dash possible I wouldn't be able to react with my dash. Then there is the fact if the brall slammed her she'd be 100% dead, but there it is again almost entirely team reliant. And ik this can 100% happen cus I've literally had it happen countless times. And if joule can live when dashing into my wires, other hunters can too; and I've had them do that as well.
This joule kind of just stood in my wire after she got low and kinda gave up, if she kept walking forward she'd get out before she died and she's gone.

Yes, joule takes for fucking ever to break his wires, and idk why her lmbs don't have destruction damage. But I am not saying anything like that. Just, she dashed into my wires, and could've lived with it being up to my teammate not me to make sure she dies. Having that happen then proceeding to see them get called an op tool is such bs.

rose pulsar
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Kinda all I want from hudson is slight tweaks to make him stronger at controlling and to make his power fantasy clearer

limpid lance
rose pulsar
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Sush

limpid lance
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your comment is fine

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the rest of this post is peak ragebait

rose pulsar
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Fair

rose pulsar
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Stuff id like is for wires to break when enemies hit wires with enough speed. As a trade they would stop momentum and then apply a ground + slow, root OR stun for a short period.
Prefferably with a clear visual/sound effects.
Imo would make them more intuitive to use.
Rn they feel a little awkward to use and to get hit by. The dmg burst isnt a super intuitive punish tool and feels kinda cheap.

I kinda wish Rmb wasnt a flat dmg increase but rather had a "Ramping dmg" mechanic attached. Dot/dmg amp per shot hit.
Reason is to make glancing shots less punishing while having rmb be threatening in extended exposure.
Even if the dmg would stay similar to now, having a "punishment" for random hits disensetivises from further hits. Think about celeste lmb and her passive. Or how voids lmb has the slow and is building his empower.
I think it would fit pretty well.
I will say dont like rmb piercing. Would preffer a small "aoe splash" from target hit. I like Hudson being limited to good single target dmg.

Shift knockback doesnt feel good to use. Hudsons kit likes knockbacks so would preffer the knockback was somewhere else in the kit.

Ult could honestly get a nerf. Make the slow + pull force scale with enemy current hp when it hit.

I personally would like if it healed more or even reset. But I digress

Just want a stronger controller identity to him.
And for his kit to feel a little better to pilot

turbid geode
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like a knock back or so

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and maybe add parts of rmb to his passive

rose pulsar
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Ive had this idea where during the rmb "exhaust sequence" pressing it again would launch a mini airblast scaling with how overheated you are.

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Cant do on reaction cus it requires spin up.
Give it a seperate cd. (Think of oath shield bash)
Would be a great synergy point for wires and lmb/rmb and works well with shift.
Gives him more options.
And is another balance lever.

rose pulsar
turbid geode
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i feel like hudson has 1 less skill with his rmb tbh

rose pulsar
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It kinda is like that

rose pulsar
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Like. Lmb/rmb are almost the same thing. Thought rmb is almost a strictly better version of lmb.
Rmb's downside is that its unreliable close range and shoddy at longer.
But...
Lmb doesnt honestly feel that reliable.
Lmb projectiles are slow, and the angle they fire from (hudsons arm) causes some jank at close range. Doesnt help they have really high dmg drop off. So the only way to really get good reliable value is to barrel stuff someone. But the dmg is still quite sub par. Being that close means almost everyone else in the game has an easy combo on him at that range. Hudson has no combo to pull off unless they disconnect or he has best in slot powers.

Most times in close range I just try and rmb and cheese with ult allowing me to turn rmb spin OR I just dash away.

Times ive had lmb work is when fighting certain characters when they have 0 abilities up.
And when im like 97% hp vs someone on 40%hp and low armor.

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Im kinda starting wonder if its pointless to even keep pushing my hudson propaganda hudson_gooby
Clearly isnt working and might be futile

turbid geode
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like why do i have to hold this shit

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but yeah they should just make rmb the passive where u hold lmb it progressively gets stronger

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i thought they would do so much more when they said they would rework him

rose pulsar
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Ive had a theory they just dont know what to do with hudson.

turbid geode
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im afraid thats more than a theory

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tbh most of their kits are a balance nightmare

rose pulsar
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I feel its either the kits lack agency or have too much of it.

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Brall and Oath are just bundles of "Nah I win" tools.

turbid geode
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altho they have some good kits like myth and zeph

rose pulsar
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😭

turbid geode
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but they like to give huge number to them for some reason

hallow haven
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Let me delete that truth nuke really quick

turbid geode
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too much for me to handle

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thats what sets myth above the rest

rose pulsar
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Zeph honestly suffers from being balanced around anti healing.
Myth just over statted and rain of arrows is kinda overloaded

hallow haven
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Well I can send you another relevant Hudson truth nuke

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That might not get me banned

river meadow
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if hudson get buffed it op and if it gets nerfed its absolute trash

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rework time

rose pulsar
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My favorite interaction with a myth was trying to kill a 20% hp myth as hudson via lmb and she killed me with lmb trade from full before I could get her to 10%% 😭

turbid geode
river meadow
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idk who thought a TD character would fit in a BR

turbid geode
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and yeah rain of arrows does too much

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but thats and ez fix compared to hudson or jin

hallow haven
river meadow
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jin hudson should get reworkws

hallow haven
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Don't look the date at the post

river meadow
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if they buff his turn speed the hunter is op

rose pulsar
river meadow
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insta delete laser simulator

hallow haven
rose pulsar
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Basically the same thing

turbid geode
hallow haven
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From the beginning he was a terribly designed character still is and will be if he's not completely reworked

turbid geode
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imagine changing some numbers around and calling that a rework

hallow haven
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It's absolutely non healthy lmb minigun spam if it works and everything else will feel absolutely clunky designed

rose pulsar
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Dude lacks tools to do anything so they just pad him with stats

hallow haven
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Also infinitely holding gun on a game without ammo

turbid geode
rose pulsar
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I have a hard time believing these characters where designed by industry professionals

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Industry veterans maybe...

turbid geode
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well

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they were league designer before so...

rose pulsar
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Atleast league designs sometimes hit and have strong power fantasies

turbid geode
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they havent hit it for a while now

rose pulsar
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Yeah havent hit for a while. Used to hit

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Internal issues at riot games. Management is dog poo poo cheekycashcat

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No passion only profit

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Burn the devs out and fire thousands so new ceo gets a new yacht

turbid geode
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they did hit with voli and udyr reworks tho

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i would also include ksante if they made him a bruiser instead of a tank

rose pulsar
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Udyr is such a good rework. The ONLY complaint I really have about him is that E awaken doesnt have ornns Brittle on it. It would be so thematic.

turbid geode
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the rework was perfect to me

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just a shame they kept nerfing him afterwards

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it was deserved tho

rose pulsar
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Yeah

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Find the tank builds on him lame but the Ad and full ap builds are real fun

turbid geode
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me building liandry into full tank

rose pulsar
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😴

turbid geode
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i forgot they vamp item but that build was cool

rose pulsar
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Full ap Q awaken on a warmogs heart steel rush mundo 😈

turbid geode
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most fun i had on him was on arena tho

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so much cool stuff u can do

rose pulsar
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Arena dyr low key busted. So flexible.

turbid geode
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yeah

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any build is viable as long as u commit to it early on

rose pulsar
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Vurnerability just jewled gauntlet from temu 😭

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And rite of ruin is disgusting on him so any crit augment is good

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Ethereal weapon has so funky interactions cus Udyrs autos apply spell effects

turbid geode
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ethereal with moonflair so fun

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insta tapping his q

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passive all the time

turbid geode
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i had so much fun with that

rose pulsar
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Nutty stuff. But everyone just goes for the same dumb ass lethality Q build 🗿

turbid geode
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i have maybe 2 games on that build

rose pulsar
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It works if you roll good into it.

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But every Udyr ive seen I just shit on no sweat cus they spam their buttons and use E awaken for no reason

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And dont know how to cycle awakens so they just die without doing any dmg

turbid geode
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thats funny since the server i played i just went ap tank dyr all the time

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to the point people started banning or picking it every game

rose pulsar
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Nice. I did that on pbe Urf once. Had a spesific udyr build with Ap hybrid (mana converts to hp) so youd go like Roa + muramana for easy 5k hp. I kept being game admin so I started seeing copy cats

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I would kinda want to see how Old Udyr would work in Arena. Or old morde

turbid geode
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old dyr would be insane with the double dot thingy

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old morde would also be insane with how much ap u can get

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prolly one shot on ult

rose pulsar
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Thinking about it old morde would be busted as hell.

tidal sphinx
# hallow haven

Wait till you get into the range argument and some people still don't understand why Hudson needs to have the longest range in the game to function at all as a design.

Either way- I haven't played the "reworked" Hudson so I am not really sure if this is still accurate. Could be!

rose pulsar
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Cant heal yourself out of situations and ult is used to cheese

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Thats about what changed

gray cobalt
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hudson bugg or op....

hallow haven
toxic walrus
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Hudson is just a poorly designed noob stomper but with his rework he’s had some viable play in the top levels that’s the most he’s gonna get

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Hudson players need to accept that they’re playing an easy noob stompy character so he isn’t gonna have the same skill ceiling thus he’s rarely gonna be viable in top levels of play

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Hudson is balanced right now I promise you don’t want him changed because he’ll either become super op again and get nerfed to being unplayable or get changes that overall nerf him

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Requests that are quality of life are fine every character needs them but anything beyond that in the current state of the game is just a bad idea

rose pulsar
toxic walrus
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You can always swap characters

rose pulsar
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I can always swap games

toxic walrus
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Sure can

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This is like a garen player complaining that his character doesn’t have 12 dashes and a crazy passive

tidal sphinx
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So do you think Hudson's designs functions without having the longest range of the cast?

toxic walrus
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And I will take it as rage bait from someone who hasn’t played the game in its current state

rose pulsar
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Garen is atleast reliable when he actually gets close to someone and has the tools to function in his role 😭

toxic walrus
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Hudson is good right now top players are making him work

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You can complain about quality of life

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And that’s fair

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But if good players are making it work and you aren’t

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Then maybe you just need to be a better player

rose pulsar
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Ok so I gotta be top 5 player to have a valid opinion on him. Ok

hallow haven
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You have a top 1 Hudson player with an opinion right now although..

rose pulsar
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Was only ranked top 6 ellunacry

tidal sphinx
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There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who haven't played the game in it's current state. Most of the players who had a strong understanding of the game and it's patterns stopped playing, yet a few have stuck around.

You are welcome to be baited by anything and everything, but the point stands true that a character whose design requires giving up the ability to dodge projectiles with WASD to deal damage needs to be able to outrange characters to function as a design. Otherwise, what happens is he consistently loses short trades and is unable to hold space.

toxic walrus
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Rank doesn’t matter in this game

hallow haven
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True but this is not about ranked its about who was the only player who played Gunner in pre-alpha when no one else did

toxic walrus
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It’s not the same game anymore

rose pulsar
hallow haven
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He was the same character

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Although

toxic walrus
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And yes in normal games too

hallow haven
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This is about identifying why he was poorly designed

rose pulsar
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And I wasnt talking Ranked points. Community votes 😭

toxic walrus
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That means even less

rose pulsar
hallow haven
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And that's why he was reworked about 4 times before his current iteration

toxic walrus
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If a noob stomper character can preform well in scrims and is balanced in normal games then that’s a very well designed character

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IMO

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I think Hudson is in a perfect spot right now

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Aside from some quality of life changes

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But that’s beside the point

tidal sphinx
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I'm not here for a dick measuring contest- It's all about how well you understand the game and combat design. And chief, you aren't there yet.

hallow haven
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If he's balanced that doesnt necessairily mean he is a good design

rose pulsar
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Well release is soon so we will get a better idea soon enough

hallow haven
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His gameplay revolving around holding lmb on space is still brain numbingly stupid

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Not that im saying he is strong or weak

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It's simply a bad design

rose pulsar
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Its quite boring

toxic walrus
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Then why play him if you don’t want his gameplay fantasy

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Yes it’s boring

hallow haven
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And to accomodate this pattern he needs a lot of balance levers to restrict him to make it not overpowered

toxic walrus
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But it’s meant for new players who want the cool hold big gun character

hallow haven
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More backstab damage, severe turn rate decrease

silent garnet
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I don't think hudson is a good design, although I wouldn't say he's horrid, nor good at the moment

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he's just kinda bleh

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there's so many better characters

hallow haven
toxic walrus
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If you want Hudson to be a completely reworked character that’s fair but right now is the best we’re getting

hallow haven
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But that would require digging a lot of messages

slate skiff
hallow haven
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But if you ever spoke to him you might've got a clearer idea

toxic walrus
rose pulsar
toxic walrus
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He is an easy character

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With little to no skill expression

hallow haven
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0 Skill expression

toxic walrus
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That sounds like a noob friendly character to me

slate skiff
tidal sphinx
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Perhaps it is another form of bad design to have characters that are meant to onboard new players to the game when your roster is so small and the amount of content for long-tail veterans so short?

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Or at least so many of them

rose pulsar
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0 skill expression is DOG SHIT design rocketW

hallow haven
#

Yes

toxic walrus
toxic walrus
hallow haven
#

Why don't they make a newbie friendly character whose passive is that he cannot get spiked to help onboard new players on gliding

silent garnet
rose pulsar
#

We been calling hudson frustratingly binary for almost a year 😭

hallow haven
rose pulsar
silent garnet
#

Ah

rose pulsar
hallow haven
#

Truth is as long as he had an ability slot wasted on a self buff to hold lmb even harder he is bad design

rose pulsar
#

Its the opposite end of being too complex

toxic walrus
tidal sphinx
#

Even Garen has skill expression that allows skilled players to differentiate themselves in second to second combat from unskilled players. Many matchups are entirely decided by how Garen uses the slow removal on Q and the tenacity on W. These small things can be very rewarding to master an execute well while still letting the character be noob friendly.

toxic walrus
#

That game isn’t successful at all

slate skiff
toxic walrus
#

So does Hudson

hallow haven
#

Can you cite an example

toxic walrus
#

If Hudson has 0 skill expression then go win a scrim set with him

tidal sphinx
#

As the most prolific Hudson player, he really doesn't.

hallow haven
#

I'm curious to hear so we can discuss it more appropriately with this discussion

slate skiff
tidal sphinx
#

The single small thing he did have was removed early on

rose pulsar
hallow haven
#

But does league have gliding

toxic walrus
#

Supervive is a complex game too it just hasn’t been figured out

hallow haven
#

Has it

#

Have you ever heard of zzkknn

toxic walrus
rose pulsar
toxic walrus
#

The nostalgia glasses are on right today

hallow haven
#

He has made very good threads on dissecting the game design in past

#

Some still hold true today

slate skiff
toxic walrus
#

If you want him to be a completely reworked character that’s understandable

tidal sphinx
hallow haven
#

If you don't like him I'm at least sure you've heard of miragent once

#

Also very good threads in the past about BR Macro

toxic walrus
#

Why are you bringing up people who don’t even play the game anymore

#

There are plenty of current players that have very good macro knowledge

hallow haven
#

You said if the game was not figured out yet

toxic walrus
#

The fact you aren’t mentioning them shows how little you know about the current state of the game

hallow haven
#

It has in the past several times

hallow haven
toxic walrus
#

This game hasn’t been out for a decade like league

hallow haven
#

And I'm aware of what's happening

toxic walrus
hallow haven
#

Its simply not of my interest to discuss

#

I am just responding to what you claimed

toxic walrus
#

I’m talking about the current state of the game

hallow haven
#

The game has been figured out in the past

toxic walrus
#

Not some rose tinted alpha

hallow haven
#

That's what you said

#

And that is detracting us from our discussion about Hudson

toxic walrus
hallow haven
#

It has in the past, it was figured out

rose pulsar
#

You see our opinions are invalid because we arent cream of the crop best player of the game at the moment.

toxic walrus
#

Jesus Christ the straw manning is insane

hallow haven
#

What straw manning I'm just replying

#

If the game was figured out in the past that means it logically, has happened in contrast of what you said and I am not wanting a huge intellectual discussion about that

#

I simply replied

#

If you don't want to believe it then its okay then that doesn't mean what I said is true

#

It doesnt matter to what we were talking about Hudson

toxic walrus
#

TLDR for my opinion on the matter Hudson is in as good a state as he can be in with his current kit and design top players can make him work in scrims and high level games and worse players can play him in ranked and normal games without him feeling unfun to play against

#

Hudson needs a lot of quality of life but his strength is in the perfect place

rose pulsar
#

Well its going to be discussed to death soon

tidal sphinx
#

Kinda embarrassing to complain about others arguments after the things you typed 💀

toxic walrus
hallow haven
#

I just think this whole thing could've been handled better without reaching to personal offenses on others knowledge

#

But that's just my opinion

tidal sphinx
#

To summarize your argument: You can't possibly have a well founded argument not due to the merits of your game knowledge or reasoning, but because I do not see your name consistently above mine in ranked and in scrims.

toxic walrus
ruby sparrow
# toxic walrus TLDR for my opinion on the matter Hudson is in as good a state as he can be in w...

Imo hudson really needs more solo agency. It was kinda the main point of this. If he doesn't have tonwork by himself(like in scrims) he will work really well. But when he does he like isn't a character other than when he hits his ult.

Hudson struggles quite a bit to punish someone on his wires, but literally every other character in the game can do the punishing for him. It makes his wires feel like ass in ranked but then in the custom arenas I've played in they are a pretty strong tool, not op but atrong cus my team actually looks at the person in my wires.

toxic walrus
#

like a bungie if they get stuck in wires they should be easy to hit with a power right?

tidal sphinx
#

I don't think you understand what straw man means

toxic walrus
rose pulsar
#

😭

toxic walrus
#

me and outdated are having an actual discussion right now I'm not gonna derail it for you

ruby sparrow
# toxic walrus have you tried using powers to supplement that weakness?

It still kinnd of all comes down to if I can hit my ult. I can easily get them with the 600 dmg from my wires with air blast but if i don't ult them they just gone and nothing i can do about it, my team ofc could kill the person but i can not.

Also it doesn't work as well as it should cus people are legit going through his wires rn. Countless hunters can dash through them or they just don't stop the peraon far wnough in my wires so they insta walk out.

toxic walrus
#

with ult you could kill them but otherwise you could chunk them out and make them back off

ruby sparrow
toxic walrus
#

yeah thats exactly what I was talking about with quality of life/bug fixes

ruby sparrow
toxic walrus
#

that isn't balance thats just a bug

ruby sparrow
#

Yea it woukd and that'd fix so so much

toxic walrus
#

yeah

#

then you can use powers to maybe pick up kills or ult to guarantee it

#

I feel like wires could get their hit box extended upward

#

like make them taller not wider

tidal sphinx
#

For example: Above, I stated that Hudson needs the longest range to function in his current design. I state a clear argument for this. Rather than address the specifics of my argument, you opted instead to say that I don't play the game currently so I don't get it and even if I did play the game I wouldn't be good at it anymore so it's obviously a rage bait statement.

In this way, you exemplified the meaning of "straw man". You intentionally misrepresented my argument as rage bait and then exaggerated it further by insisting I lacked the skill to even begin to argue,rather than refuting any specific points in my argument or engaging directly in the context of the argument.

A clear case of 📽️

ruby sparrow
toxic walrus
toxic walrus
ruby sparrow
toxic walrus
#

when I talk about balance I typically don't really talk about bugs since I consider those quality of life issues not balance even if they can relate to balance

toxic walrus
#

maybe they could nerf the hp to compensate or smth

#

or make them thinner

#

or just make it his lvl 4

#

but I feel like that would be really awkward to have his wires not function until you get lvl 4

tidal sphinx
#

Now rather than address your own failure and embarrassment head on, you opt to post gifs attempting to mock me and insist you won't reply. Unfortunately this only shows that you lack the argument with which to engage and can only resort to ad hominem fallacies.

If you actually want to have a real discussion, I'm here for it.

Also, now that it's over. Here's my phallus measure: https://youtu.be/0f1v7vNvIsw?si=C7xk8s-yoBj6ncwM

I'm pretty sure you know these names from your scrims and ranked.

YouTube
Luke
hey there
▶ Play video
toxic walrus
steel glade
#

there's no way you fr think hudson needs to have the highest range to function

hallow haven
#

Given how many things he needs to function even if I didn't agree or agreed with that statement it's not out of the box to say that

tidal sphinx
#

I think you are finally understanding straw men fallacies, that was another correct use!

#

There's hope for you yet

tidal sphinx
steel glade
hallow haven
steel glade
hallow haven
#

Before his current rework he had healing on hit and piercing shots

#

And with best itemization you should run Rampage with him which is just an AP stat stick for how many times you hit enemies

ruby sparrow
#

Ramp is shit ngl

hallow haven
#

Additionaly omnivamp can be abused with his shots

hallow haven
ruby sparrow
hallow haven
#

Yes he even had two dashes before

tidal sphinx
#

Essentially the way to think about it is that Hudson's design is meant to control space. He does this by having the strongest LMB in an LMB fight. This is balanced by the fact that he doesn't have immediate access to it and is severely inhibited when using it.

What this means- Hudson cannot ever win a fight while WASDing enemy projectiles. He lacks the move speed to effectively dodge. So he has to "trade" damage and rely on the fact his damage is going to be higher.

When characters are equal range or longer range, they can deal damage to Hudson without Hudson being able to trade back damage on them. This slow poke means that Hudson cannot hold positions because he can easily be threatened while offering no return threat.

hallow haven
#

And with more things he had he also had the same amount of restrictions

steel glade
#

vamp hudson was awful to fight, but i do think they should bump up his heal on knock at least

ruby sparrow
hallow haven
#

Yes

#

I understand

ruby sparrow
hallow haven
#

His wire also used to be an aoe circle to make it easier to hit

#

With many concessions and buffs in a row he received because he was considered the worst Hunter and severely underplayed the flaws of his design just came to show and become more problematic

#

Which is why he is on his 5th rework

steel glade
#

i mean something's got to give, you cant really be a statstick bruiser that outguns everything AND have a lot of utility (yes i know brall and oath exist talk to TC not me)

#

playing into him i think he's in a pretty solid spot balance wise, he's reasonably threatening. But like you said that's depending on environment

hallow haven
#

In arena I think the circumstances make him a lot less threatening

ruby sparrow
hallow haven
#

That's why he's rarely seen there due to how telegraphed and expected his flank can be

tidal sphinx
#

Even the December version of Hudson that has been said to have killed the game had strong counterplay. It's just that the counterplay was much harder to implement than the playing of Hudson, due to the fact that it was much more reliant on understanding position and having strong fundamental movement. As such, players got "good" at Hudson relative to skill level of the players they were playing against but were easily dispatched by any player that had stronger fundamentals than they did.

ruby sparrow
hallow haven
#

Being more statstick also because he has reasonable toughness for helmet build

steel glade
#

what's crazy is he can still shred people despite building helmet(s)

hallow haven
#

That's why he got nerfed into oblivion although much time later instead of the time frame that should've happened and no one was playing him after that

#

Which is why the mains have been calling for a rework for a long time

hallow haven
#

And personally I think the identity of minigun omega damage spammer vs the tank he looks like he's supposed to be was always conflicting from the start

ruby sparrow
#

A revised version of my hudson's request, these are not meant to be simply buffs. They are meant to make his ideas work better.


2. Shorter dashes. The point of this is to make it so when he rams someone into wires he doesn't go too far and is now in a bad position, and so he doesn't go too far when just didging something.

3. Wires should stop in the middle to stop people for insta walking out if them.

4. Wires gotta stop momentum correctly. The multi wire tech is cool but rarely possible and he'd likely just be stronger in this case.

5. I do still think he should do 300 regardless of spun up or not.

6. Small ms buff when NOT spun up. Then increase alow when spun up so it about evens out. He just has a tough time dodging when he isn't spun up and it feels kinda dumb.```