#Should the Armor Shredder exotic power remain in the game ? - Another random balance question.

27 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

frank tapir
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Although exotic powers are supposed to be extremely powerful given their rarity and difficulty of obtaining, I feel like this power is unnecessary in the game, and even a bad thing.

Armor in SV is very important; it protects you against the significant amount of damage present in the game. It also represents a considerable amount of money if you have to repair it often.

But it is also naturally very fragile, and some hunter kits and even items naturally grant you armor shredding.
And for counterplay reasons, some abilities should have more impact on armor than others.

The problems I find with the Armor Shredder exotic are:

  • Too high shredding value, but if we nerf this value, the item no longer deserves to be a red exotic.

  • Bishop's RMB, Saros's RMB, Ghost's Q... These abilities are already inherently strong for poke and naturally damaging armor, adding Armor Shredder makes them completely overpowered for one-shotting enemies' armor.

  • It breaks this balance, as some abilities are supposed to do more damage to armor than others.

__ if I had to give my opinion on this power, for me there would potentially be two possibilities for this power:__

  • Remove it from the game, but it would be a shame to lose an exotic and we can do better.

  • A rework. I think the artwork could make a little more sense; they're radioactive bullets, and something along those lines could be nice. Like giving a debuff over time or on the terrain rather than just giving an armor shred multiplier.

Idk, these are obviously not the best solutions, but I think Armor Shredder is something that could be improved.

Feel free to give your opinion and/or say why it's a good power.

TArmor_Shredder.png
severe parcel
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I actually like armor shredder as a power. It's annoying on sniper hunters but it fulfills its purpose and feels strong without feeling overtuned imo

frank tapir
waxen ferry
worn flax
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I just think the current armor system could be refined more.

frank tapir
# waxen ferry Two questions: 1. Do you think Armor Shredder would be a problem in its curren...

Do you think Armor Shredder would be a problem in its current form if the game had a higher ttk?

it would be a good tool with a higher ttk for sure

Do you think the low ttk is a problem that needs to be addressed?

I think if they want a better player retention, they need to change some power budget in some hunter kit to avoid one shot or fast true combo. It's already frustrating for a new player to get spiked, they don't need to get 2 tap by joule or Shrike on top of that.

twin zodiac
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Armor Shredder is super giga op and basically 1st choice on any hunter 90% of the time, so I agree it should be either nerfed or reworked into something more interactive (like it has some sort of CD and makes radiocative pools that increase armor dmg when enemies stand in them or smth)

worn flax
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One thing I find interesting is that games with higher TTk tend to be more "micro/mechanics" based.
While very low TTK tends to favor more "tactical/strategic/macro"
just wondering which one do the devs want to favor more. Since there is this "Uncomfortable middle line" you really dont want TTK be in

indigo rivet
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equipment upgrades are way more gradual

waxen ferry
worn flax
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Even thought the entire thing is pretty self evident when you think about it for more then 10 minutes

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Wonder if the thing translates how well into vive

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Like looking into their goals of having very skill exppressive gameplay and such youd think theyd want to go for Longer TTk

willow tide
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Personally I feel like if ttk was increased vive would become less fun. Its super fast paced, and thats knew of the things I like about it.

Ik a lot of people seem to want higher ttk, I'm just one of the people who don't.

waxen ferry
# worn flax Wonder if the thing translates how well into vive

I think it does translate well. Top-down shooters share a lot of the same DNA that their 3D counterparts do, and in my experience a lot of the times when I won in Supervive (at least in squads) it was because my team made better strategic decisions, at least in games where I didn't get carried by legend teammates wiping the lobby.

The problem is that I think a majority of the people surrounding the game want Supervive to be a higher TTK game, with a lot of players just wanting to fight other players and TC explicitly saying that they want players to have some amount of 1vX potential. Furthermore, the study did recommend high TTK for battle royale games.

wraith kindle
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It's just a dps buff straight up that makes some matchups un-doable. I think it's value is over tuned when compared to shrapnel soul for instance. But I don't think it is problematic in its purpose just needs numbers changes

worn flax
waxen ferry
waxen ferry
worn flax
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Monkey isnt stupid

willow tide
# waxen ferry Something I learned from making my own games is that modifying the TTK doesn't a...

There's also some instant kill interactions that I feel like would mesh with trying to increase ttk. Like dunking and spiking mainly. Like they could try to increase the overall ttk while those are exceptions. Im unsure, I still really like killing fast even if it sucks when im killed fast, sometimes you just cannot tell how you die but I feel like a simple video replay system would fix that issue.

charred palm
# waxen ferry I think it does translate well. Top-down shooters share a lot of the same DNA th...

Feels like the concept they are trying to measure is something more like "Minimum Time to Respond", which is well approximated by "Minimum TTK" in the games they seem to have looked at. It does not feel like that's the case in supervive though. In supervive their measure of TTK does not seem very representative of time to respond at all. SV has much more anticipation to the combat with it's cast times and projectiles which dramatically increases the time to respond, paired with strong responses with every character having some form of dash or other defensive option.

It's a lot harder to measure time to respond compared to just TTK, but in my opinion & experience SVs time to respond maps quite closely to the slow TTK environments of something like Apex, which I've played a ton.

waxen ferry
# charred palm Feels like the concept they are trying to measure is something more like "Minimu...

Their definition of TTK is how long it takes to kill someone from full health to 0, starting from the first hit. That is, measurably speaking, a very accurate definition of TTK because it ignores the time before you start taking damage. It's complicated outside of 3D shooters because of the presence of crowd control like stuns and knockups in MOBAs and hitstun in fighting games, but to my knowledge the TTK is much higher in competitive genres outside 3D shooters so the range of TTKs needs to be expanded outside of those genres.

My analysis of Supervive's TTK was based on my opinion of the speed of the TTK, my assessment of how I've played and won my own games, whether those wins were through strategic play or mechanical play, and how they lined up with the article's assessment of how TTK relates to gameplay decisions. Yes, Supervive's TTK is on the higher end relative to the article, but it’s different enough from the games in the article that it can't readily be compared to those games because the definition of high/low TTK is so different between them.

indigo rivet
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i recently started looking around on the wiki and apparently it got a 45% nerf at some point xdd

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