Season Zero: Gold MATTERS + Mobility Adjustments + Discord Social Megathread

[jolly rapids]

but that's entirely redundant with dash reset

[slow crown]

(Good night y'all, you're the best continue being yourselves)

[glass flicker]

Bede was also mentioning getting more value from the Health/Level than AP.

But yeah, this is one (of a few reasons) I think giving people the agency to get the base Equipment they need makes sense. Probably some range of agreement on how reliable it should be, but not looking to make it less reliable.

Night shops start getting into that territory for me, I think.

For sure. I love the pictures you paint experientially. It's fun to read.

Got it, yeah - sharing comp is helpful.

[jolly rapids]

In practice, it's hard to get away from a perceived BiS Equipment choice. If we're defining "depth" as multiple options per Hunter, I'm not sure changing distribution method changes the outcome.

I would argue the depth isn't more options so much as less bad options, this includes removing options entirely, I genuinely think pre-equipment rework has still panned out to have had more depth than the blue tier passives have ever delivered if only because the stat stick swapping off dead teams more meaningfully rewarded adaptation than power crept equipment output becoming a singularity for builds

[naive crown]

Ok time to eep good night everyone 😴

[jolly rapids]

rephrasing the above concept, hyper-specialisation has robbed the opportunities to switch around between an array of more general playstyles over the course of the game

I would prefer a handful of generic builds over 1 viable specific build (no matter how novel) to be the meta any day

[glass flicker]

Oh, I see what you're saying now.

(Appreciate the rephrase.)

[slow crown]

Dunno if relevant, but to me depth in general is the amount of possibilitie, how many branches there are interconnected between different elements of the system, and how the player can use them to their best of their advantage at a given time

[jolly rapids]

this is complexity as far as gaming is concerned, a Chess player will tell you that their game is incredibly complex, but knowing the number of lines and openings is not where the depth lies

[slow crown]

Ever since items rework I felt like there was one correct BiS one size fits all every shapes goes into the square hole loadout

Complex =/= Complicated tho

[jolly rapids]

depth in Chess is the creativity to ascertain the correct play without memorisation

as in the long term it allows you to account for literal tens of thousands of scenarios better than learning the theory of a few hundred

[slow crown]

Yeah

[cobalt cypress]

tbh i dont really feel much value from health (likely due to playstyle and mode) since I kinda explode more or less insantly regardless of whether I'm lvl 15 w/ 2 health items or not
the only stats I get any value out of or see value in are movespeed, mana regen in specific, and sometimes CDR.

[jolly rapids]

which is why I don't think the current equipment system delivers on depth, we have more options now, but it's much rarer for it to be 'correct' to picture an alternative to the game plan you started with

there is no creativity to be found as evident by fucking SUPERVIVE-stats/Stratevive

[slow crown]

Yeah because you're on a set track with little to no adaptation

[slow crown]

Be it match up adaptation (LoL), making stuff as you go (roguelite), or both (auto chess)

[drowsy yoke]

You play void right? Isn't his toughness on the lower end so he won't get as much value from HP in general/not as much what he wants from items anyways?

[glass flicker]

I'm trying to write the words - I think we agree on some aspects of this but also don't want to share an incomplete thought (because we're thinking about this space, too.)

[cobalt cypress]

Isn't his toughness on the lower end
correct + even if he had higher toughness, TTK is so fast that more max health is whatever
i will now have to suppress the urge to again share my Thoughts on toughness

also max health item passives are kinda trash IMO so I probably wouldn't specifically build max health even if he had higher toughness

[drowsy yoke]

I appreciate this communication! I'm going to assume items are in a limbo space with endless directions/potential possibilities then some previous ones stated.

I'm very very interested seeing what happens next with items specifically in due time

[jolly rapids]

I will translate/summarise your thoughts so you don't have to: toughness should not be a thing in the sense of being a stat and the goal of defining how squishy a hunter is when running tank build should instead be defined via something more conceptually self-explanatory like base damage reduction or damage reduction per level, a value that still interacts with external max health sources but doesn't effect how much is received itself

[drowsy yoke]

I feel on KP that max hp is felt. But yeah toughness is interesting and on someone like void it doesn't matter. Like building hp on lux... like why would you 1st place. Her kit has nothing that would support that playstyle and you can still do it but it just like... okay :D

[cobalt cypress]

i would've more put it as "not being able to get effective value out of max health feels pretty bad"

[glass flicker]

To go further on builds:

• It's hard to make a "counter-build" in a BR. Who are you countering?
• So then, is it playstyle? Or team comp?
• Playstyle's been more favored here, even if hyper-specialized.
• Different types of stats have been mentioned here that we've talked about. That's a space I can see giving more generic (good) options.

I'm in team chat at the same time, so also typing wicked slow now because I'm talking at the same time. Will probably dip in the next 10 (but down to keep rolling on this topic.)

[jolly rapids]

well yes but also I know the logic underlying that feeling at this point, literally discriminating against hunters as to what numbers they get to receive in the loot tooltip itself feels almost mean-spirited with how harshly it tries to enforce who gets to be tanky

[drowsy yoke]

You are all good Jess! If you have to lock in on team chat do so

[drowsy yoke]

I think on concept of "counter builds", due to not really being able to counter it should focus on amplifying people's own playstyle.

[glass flicker]

The toughness breakdown is helpful.

[slow crown]

I think it can be both team and play style TBF, but yeah single player agency has to be high in either case. Countering does not really make that much sense unless it's countering a specific kind of generic play style (dive, drawn out fights, isolated skirmishes, etc..), but if that's a thing it should still empower yourself out of it and still function as a standalone

I think items like Death Dance or Guardian Angel are good examples from League

Now that I think about it, has the team ever tried a system similar to auto chess games in terms of making items? Getting components you can trade in the team to make specific items? Just a thought that crossed my mind really

[glass flicker]

Gold Armor vs. Armor Shred's one objective version (less countering a playstyle, more countering resources at the team level.)

[drowsy yoke]

Make it so you have to craft items at base camps/shops and over the course of a minute you have to defend that place to make the item (or upgrade an item) :] /j

[slender oasis]

Hey Safelocked

[slow crown]

More like Safegoated

[slender oasis]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1337394020493819904
Can you please check on it? I personally wasn't playing game much last month for this reason alone. Really frustrating

[glass flicker]

We've had different stores, crafting (to a degree), build paths. I don't think we landed on an execution that we were in love with in this space, but. Probably the moment to say - wait and find out.

Got to a moment where I started typing, then deleting enough that I needed to stop myself.

[slow crown]

Haha

[drowsy yoke]

Appreciate the transparency!

Even tho I was somewhat kidding about the crafting idea and having to hold a space for it... it could be really cool late game thing. Imagine there was a like rainbow upgrade that gave something crazy but the only way to do it was going to an anvil and defending the space till the item was crafted. Enemies can pick it up if they kill enemy team or something. Idk, fun idea tho imo

[glass flicker]

Yeah, there's a lot of fun space here.

[glass flicker]

Weird. Reporting this - may need more info from you, but I'll DM if I do.

[slender oasis]

Sure, really want to help fix it

[glass flicker]

Appreciate it.

[limber arch]

Chiming in late but

This patch is pog af

And I'm actually so interested in grinding it now, I've been sorta backing off a bit lately

Just playing to keep up with changes basically

But now I'm hyped

[drowsy yoke]

I will say, past couple of patches is some of most I've ever enjoyed SV. Love the direction we are heading in

I feel just slowly building upon itself ever since I came back (before then did a few project loki playtest in 2021) last summer and just been loving the experience

[glass flicker]

Glad to hear it. Hesitated to share early, but matches how we're seeing people engage too recently.

Alright, going to move my notes over for the team (and get some games in after I get some more work done.)

[drowsy yoke]

Hell yeah! Thank you for your time, genuinely so thankful for it and hope you enjoy meeting with team! See ya on the Skylands

[brave hatch]

erm.. its the breach

https://tenor.com/view/nerd-dog-dawg-nerdydog-gif-26896104

[drowsy yoke]

Wait is it not called the skylands anymore? :O

[glass flicker]

Haha, yes. It's the Breach now.

[drowsy yoke]

Got it! See yah on the Breach now .

Not you though @brave hatch,

[brave hatch]

[sly quail]

Hudson really needs a rework or the things that actually need to be buffed should get buffed. Just adding health to his wire barely helps at all. Then from my experience hudson's ap scaling is pretty low so he falls behind pretty badly late game and it sucks. Then the fact joule can dash through his wires makes me want to bash my head on my table, it's so fucking stupid when joule can just act like your wires aren't even there.

[celest flume]

Speaking of aerial combat, it would be nice if we could get some indicator of what can/can't hit us at heights while fighting in the air above ground. Been "spiked" multiple times from things that, at least intuitively, didn't seem like they would hit me.

https://imgur.com/a/82YV4EY

[brave hatch]

The red dot underneath you while gliding low enough is essentially that indicator but I feel like some abilities are wonky with it

[celest flume]

yeah I just found that in a post that afro made. However, I think the dot needs to like fade in as you descend, so you can be aware that you're about to enter spike distance. Even if I had known that at the time of the video, I'm not sure I could have reacted to that dot appearing before I got spiked

[naive crown]

never even noticed the red dot ngl

[sly quail]

They should just put the dot on top of your health bar honestly. Sometimes it looks pretty hidden

[restive patio]

I'd love to see an orb similar to the one we get when low in abyss

[rough night]

Hi, I used to be an (amateur) alpha tester back in the days of indie gaming in the 2000s. Any chance I can help you guys out with the new player experience specifically? There's a couple things I'd like changed that wouldn't take too long but definitely make things more friendly to new players. I'm trying to get verified but for some reason that's acting up

[worldly eagle]

Im super happy with the reduced ping, probably the best change this patch. Going from 110 ping down to 65-70 has been so big. but just now I got put into a game on EU instead of Asia. I thought you guys fixed that and that wouldnt happen. Losing 30 rp playing with people playing a different meta strat and with 200 ping was not very fun. This has happened a lot recently. I even got put into Sao Paulo yesterday.. Its losing me rp, fun and time. Why?

[restive patio]

I noticed I went down from 40 to 20 for some reason O.o

v nice

[glass flicker]

Finishing the last playtest game of today; will be here in 30.

Happy to hear on the ping changes.

[naive crown]

Hello

[sullen ermine]

Hello Safelocked! Thanks for always doing these Q&A's. I really enjoy seeing devs interact with the community and it is much appreciated.

Things I want to know about if possible:

Matchmaking imbalances -
is there anything coming to change this?

Dash reset on knock -
Are there any outliers aside from Joule or ghost that will get adjustments?

Movement changes from recent patch -
Are these staying? Pretty much everyone I talk to and play with speaks about it in a negative light.

Thanks in advance

[glass flicker]

Hey! Will read this in a bit - we're going long.

[pine tendon]

🧛 ⛑️

[naive crown]

Gonna say that if the goal is for every character to be able to 1v4 the dash resets feel like somewhat of a bandaid fix. I think every characters kit should be looked into a little and give them the adequate tools to 1v4 in their own way.

Someone like ghost having his nade reset on knock would probably allow him to 1v4 way better and more skill expressively then just dash resetting.

Dash resets allows the charactes with the tools to 1v4 baseline (brall, joule) to just roll teams harder. While someone like elluna kinda just dashes 2 times more and probably cant kill someone without rmb cd's

Hudson is like a weird case where his stats are so ridicilously high that him having a dash reset might actually break him (thankfully the dash reset is buggy so he isnt op rn lmao )
Hudsons lacks the tools in his kit to 1v4. Dash reset allows him to do it and its hype but its quite unskilled. You stat check 4 people in a row.

Related/unrelated I feel a lot of current vive kit designs dont execute their power fantasy quite well enough. A lot of the weaker cast members lack something in their kit or dont do their job well enough

[glass flicker]

Matchmaking imbalances - some of this is impacted by time of day/Rank != MMR one-to-one (and playerbase size), but let me know if have receipts of moments where it doesn't feel right given those constraints.

Dash Reset on Knock - which Hunters come to mind for you?

Movement - What I'm seeing is split, but I've received some pretty positive responses here given the movement creep over time. Have talked to OG folks more than newer folks on this topic so far, but we've been observing the downstream costs of movement creep on fights/overall game structure for a while. We knew this would lead to some amount of change aversion, but believe it's pretty required for players to be able to track and fight each other, for teams to group together more naturally, and for movement optimization (via Powers, or movement tools like Wind Rings) to have reasons to exist again.

[glass flicker]

We actually explored a more per-Hunter version at one point. The reason it broke down was - it became impossible for people to hold in their head what the benefits for each Hunter's knock rules would be. The problem became pretty cursed.

I do think for Hudson's case, view some of the callouts you're mentioning as more fundamental to his core kit, vs. how the knock health/dash reset works on him. So to your last point, we probably agree on Hudson not achieving his full fantasy yet. And to be more specific, think we would want his power fantasy to be better expressed, and expressed with more appreciable skill, than is true right now.

[naive crown]

Gonna say hudsons current kit would work pretty fantastically with just 1 reliable cc ability somewhere in the kit. Just lower his stats to compensate

Biggest issue he has he cant reliably do damage or control space because he has no way to crowd control or guarantee damage (sounds funny I know)
Only real way hudson kills you is by you making a mistake first

[glass flicker]

I dig it. We've talked about bringing one back. I'm not totally sure that solves the stat-check-y feeling he has) but could see it just making a more engaging skill rotation.

[brave hatch]

helloooo supervivers

[naive crown]

I think by concept hudson should be stat heavy. He is a ranged character who is slow. Almost any game with slow ranged character has the character have really high stats to compensate. Just about how those stats are subjected. Technically bralls biggest issue (imo disclaimer) is him having the tools to subject you to his stat check (brall also has high base hp)
Kp is also technically stat check when he actually hits you. Since his damage is semi guaranteed off of a combo. Doesnt feel as bad tho since he used his whole kit for it.

I think hudson would be less frustrating to play and play against if he had a clear combo he is looking for. Cc into wires into ult into gun (but basically using the entire kit for the kill instead of just rmb)

[sullen ermine]

Yeah sure I'll do my best but I'm away from my PC with receipts for matchmaking but I have them for later if you need them.

Matchmaking as solo queue will sometimes match you with full bronze team. Legit sub 10 hour players while I'm 1500 RP in GM. which is just diabolical for many reasons I won't get into here. This shouldn't happen in any timeslots. And I would suggest a level limit before these accounts are able to queue ranked bare minimum to avoid this. I do have proof of this happening multiple times

Dash reset on knock is skewed balance wise.
I'll use this for example, joules main damage is her dash and her kit is balanced around being conditional for her resets. So the change for her is essentially she gets endless reaper meanwhile hunters like void just get an extra TP that doesn't really provide them with combat value. It is too lopsided and IMO doesn't solve any issues and will just create more issues and character balance around this will not be fair if its because of this mechanic.

Also a secondary thing about this is tracking and playing around cool downs and punish windows is almost null.

[glass flicker]

Sorry - to clarify for the Resets question. You'd already mentioned Ghost and Joule, so asking if there's other Hunters that come to mind.

[naive crown]

Hey we kinda said the same thing abojt the resets but just worded different

[glass flicker]

Checking on when we're scheduling improvements here.

It's due to queueing up quickly, and the workaround is on boot making sure the server checkboxes are what you expect. Appreciate bringing it up - saw another report here, so the team's looking into it.

[brave hatch]

I think Felix got uniquely strong off of the dash reset change as well. Been a few cases of people in #felix chat coming to talk about it, like Khyzaro.

2/3 of his basic abilities reset on knocks, and the last one is mostly inconsequential to him statchecking you (RMB is mostly about spreading ignite so unless you're doing RMB max, It's pretty irrelevant)

[sullen ermine]

Sure, Shrike got a redundancy because of this with her shift. Crysta getting resets makes her Shift max largely pointless. Jin is the "reset assassin" but everyone now gets resets on knock so it affects his identity too. Also Brall and Shiv getting MASSIVE heals that stack with the reset on knock also stacks onto their kit. Just duplicate mechanics that were core to some only, now exist for everyone. so characters that had them have parts of their kit that in my opinion need change or compensation power wise.

[naive crown]

My husbands dash reset doesnt even work half the time😔

[glass flicker]

I'll write this down, though I'm terrified to. Lol.

[brave hatch]

[naive crown]

Dont fix it. Hudson might become busted as all hell

[brave hatch]

I wonder if it has to do with killing someone mid-shift?

Since it's a hold ability

[naive crown]

Hudson dash doesnt reset with anything if its being held

[brave hatch]

yea that tracks

I think Abyss Specialist has been bugged for a minute

[naive crown]

It used to before but they changed how its cd works. Cd Starts counting after release and not during

[restive patio]

#1342602968410882048 message

Self plug.

Another takeaway I have from the resets this patch has been combat becoming a clusterf*** to read visually. This was already a bit of an issue with certain characters/skins (looking at you Felix expensive skin), but the shift spam exacerbated the issue further

[slender oasis]

I haven't been playing in weeks and honestly I wasn't too happy about the changes to movement, idk feeling wise it's just not that fun as it was before. Like now I'm always slowed by something and can't get any speed. I main Celeste btw. Maybe I need to play more and I'll get used to it, but not sure if the new players gonna like it.

[glass flicker]

Cool, noted this one too. Thanks man.

We've talked about a few of these, but going through them anyway's still good.

[naive crown]

Theres a lot of hudson bugs I posted

Also self plug in this thing. I got basically all the 7 hudson mains to agree on these points
#1343175636985839668

If hudson had all his bugs fixed he would be best charaxter in the game hands down

Not joking

[glass flicker]

Always has been with fixing most bugs in a roster-based games. for sure.

[naive crown]

Hudsons ult completely cancells when you glide. Doesnt matter if it hit. If you glide after pressing Hudson R it completely cancells

That one id like to get fixed . Its annoying

[sullen ermine]

Ok I only have one more thing to bring up as well, Jins ult being bugged really badly?

Problems Jin mains notice are:
Sometimes fights right away sometimes doesn't. Forced to use dash to make clone "activate" and fight.

Clone not following R inputs to walk. Questionable if tagging someone if he will follow or not.

And swap being iffy on if it goes through or not. I suggest adding a way to keybind it separately and make it cast with a single button press rather than a hold as it is currently.

Also I can DM you images of the matchmaking problems that I was mentioning. Or I can post them here if you want.

Sorry to text dump a lot 😅

[glass flicker]

Had a follow-up question here actually; do you have a general sense of whether this is generally felt for Arena players? I know we talked about this last time.

[restive patio]

I haven't really talked to anyone else about it. But I have heard shared sentiment with a few others about other readability like height, terrain, and some powers.

With height the readability issues stem from not knowing what can hit you and what you can hit because it seems fairly arbitrary and hard to estimate depending on the character and the animation/action they're doing. I think the red circle on the ground should be a bit bigger to more clearly show "Hey you can get hit or hit that person!"

Terrain is just some wonky collision here or there that gives unintended experiences. I've had momentum slide me in weird directions or ghost grenade face a visually wrong way relative to what the terrain actually looks like. I've also found some ground appears to be the same level as others, but ground a gives you no vision of what's on ground b because b is actually higher. That one arena map with the camp in the water has this issue with the southwest-most island not being able to see on the land above it.

Then some powers like snowball are almost invisible over some parts of the abyss.

[glass flicker]

All good, was curious.

[restive patio]

I actually got spiked in scrims by snowball being unseeable a couple days ago

[glass flicker]

Yeah, was mostly thinking about the Knock reset bit of it - but I'll note the other cases.

[glass flicker]

Gotcha, just read this too. Noting this since it's related to Miles' note.

[glass flicker]

Yeah, we're expecting some change aversion here. I'd say it's worth soaking on it and understanding not just your own movement, but the movement of others and what trades you're able to take now. I'd be curious how that feels with time.

[worldly eagle]

Gotcha, hopefully giving the server a few seconds before switching ques will help until now, good to know 😄 I won playing on 300+ ping, but gosh darn was it a struggle, you have to be predictive on void anyways, my only saving grace I guess XD

[glass flicker]

RE: Matchmaking. Yeah, if you can DM me receipts, that would be helpful (with the rough timestamp of when the match happened, and which region.)

For Jin, we have notes on the clone bugs so I think I'm good on reports, but understood.

[glass flicker]

Yep, for sure. I just talked to the engineering team; looks like we'll be able to look at this current issue soon.

[glass flicker]

Also, I appreciate that you won on Void despite all of that. Holy crap.

[sullen ermine]

At least with movement allow for characters to bunny hop with a dampener (so it can't be spammed for free). So during combat characters like Jin and Ghost can still use their unique techs. I don't want to see it completely gone from the game. 🙏

[glass flicker]

You know what, I'll note this too.

I like the thought behind it - probably missing an abuse case or three, but worth asking.

[worldly osprey]

Thoughts about making the reset either dash or heal and not both?

The reset greatly favors dps characters and those that have good mobility so maybe a little nerf on that would be good

Jus tmy two cents tho!

[glass flicker]

Yeah - I'm assuming you're talking about the Dash reset for your second note. We're aware and looking at this space; agreed on some of the discrepancies here, and you'll read more about it soon.

[sly quail]

idk about ping, but even when my ping is low stuff that is miles off of me still hits me, like a shrike will not even be close to hitting me on my screen yet I'll get hit, same with kp's stun, won't even be close to me but will still hit, his hook is also like that for me. and the fucking rails keep sending me in the opposite direction than I'm holding, it's messed me up way too much.

[sullen ermine]

Are you guys looking into ranked matchmaking adjustments? Solo/Duo queue for high being a hot topic recently in feedback

[glass flicker]

Do you have any footage I can get from you?

[restive patio]

Actually just closed a survey on Hunter Ultimates if anyone is interested 👀

I feel like it's not too far off topic to share here considering balance is one of the major topics in this chat
https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1342642025442574509

[sly quail]

probably somewhere, I got a bunch of clips but I also wouldn't be surprised if i deleted a bunch of them. I can try and find some

[glass flicker]

Jumping back into a bonus playtest. I'll take a look at one or two more questions afterward, too.

[sly quail]

the problem is more so these really look like they didn't hit, even if they might've hit a single pixel. I probably got better examples but these are just some I found rn. and I also think kp's hook really shouldn't be able to grab you from the side, this just seems weird and I feel like doesn't make too much sense on his hook which is visually trying to grab you but can grab you without actually grabbing you.

[limber arch]

@glass flicker pretty much 3 things I want to address for this patch

1. Joule. Easily the most insane character this patch, extremely not fun to play against. She's always been volatile but now she doesn't have a weakness with multiple ways to get her resets and in combat healing.

2. The reset mechanic: I understand people not liking the dash reset and tbh I honestly think the only thing that needs to happen is that multicharge dashes should only get 1 dash back instead of all of them (and then nerf Joule) but even if it went away entirely I'd be fine with that. However I do think the heal on knock is important to reducing third partying impact. Which is one of the big pain points people have with BR's in general.

3. Queue restrictions. I've now reached Masters in both Duo and Squads and I can only find a few duo games a day and Squads is utterly miserable since I'm not in a 4 stack. I feel like my only recourse to play the actual game now is to make a smurf but personally I don't want to do that bc I feel like it hurts new player experiences. I know this is nothing new but it's easily my biggest concern this patch, as of 2 days ago I feel like I'm just not allowed to play anymore.

[glass flicker]

Peeking from playtest - no comment on what the actual follow-ups are, but take a look at the patch notes soon. 🙂

RE: queue restrictions - read a bunch of the notes here on how folks have turned on this. I'll note it this time around.

[sly quail]

I do kind of hope that the heal on knock thing is kept, but if it is I honestly think that the hunters who already healed on knock could get that part of their passives reworked in some way. like it giving ap instead of healing them or smth. since brall and shiv heal a stupid amount now. idk why hudson doesn't heal a stupid amount even though he also has the heal on knock passive, but the main offendors of this are shiv and brall.

[brave hatch]

the real question is: did you clutch the bonus playtest win?

i love this emote so much

[bold cipher]

i'm gonna try to do this emote with Chonker and shards

[brave hatch]

YEAHHH

i made a feedback post about cheeky cash chonker

we need that

[glass flicker]

I WON

[brave hatch]

YEAAAAHHHH

[sly quail]

another issue I want to point out that at some point should probably get delt with, is just how easy it is for a team to get a stupid lead. and if you get a lead 9/10 times you just keep it, since nothing is really holding the players with the lead back, xp doesn't really seem to be doing that much after looking at the post that shows xp gained for each level. and then if you fall behind you will kind of just always be behind now. I feel like adjusting xp gained for each player level would fix this so that if you're level 8 and kill a player that's around level 5 you don't gain nearly half the amount of xp you need for the next level, if not enough to level up. which is kind of how it is currently.

[glass flicker]

Alright, back for a few, so one last look at some of the callouts here before I get back into games.

[glass flicker]

Will also just say to this - interested in your take in the patch notes soon(tm).

[bold cipher]

Hey ! I have one or two questions,are more playtest coming in the near future ? And is it possible to get more than 3-4 hours to give a good feedback of big changes. It's hard to actually have a reasonable opinion on something we barely experienced.

And one of my current issue with SV development is not about content, but more with a lack of quick hotfix (Crysta being broken for too long and destroying the meta for example). IK it takes times to evaluate things but sometimes they are pretty obvious and a good part of the community already complaint a lot about it (all skill level included).

[sly quail]

just curious... hudson rework when?

[bold cipher]

agree

[pine tendon]

When Vampiric Helmet ......

[bold cipher]

Kinda Perseverance and vive infusor no ?

[pine tendon]

It fills the void But never will Hit the Same......

An item that gives you Health and Omnivamp is not the same as a Bladed Helm with a Passive........

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1342962252726145045/1342962256748478545/7114d1d8-1cdd-49e0-a126-bb5684729a3d.png?ex=67c37391&is=67c22211&hm=42bab028500b0e3ae8d99af4cf8a02b60de16fa512117dfd4d06ef015801779c&

I miss you so Much. every day... Gone but never forgotten

[night nymph]

Commenting specifically on the movement changes because the reset on knocks ends up being fun to play with, even if it's not fun to play against.

I am not a fan of the movement changes because it hurts the game's feel in a way that makes the game less fun. There was a kinetic fun with the movement that made it feel fun to move around in and rewarded players for diving deeper into the movement mechanics in a way that (apart from bunny hopping on Oath) newer players could emulate without having to look up a guide on YouTube.

It's like going from Rivals of Aether's wavedash to Flash Party's wavedash: RoA's wavedash is smooth and responsive, while Flash Party's wavedash is considerably less responsive (at least when I played it last). Rivals' wavedash is core to its gameplay loop and doesn't function without it, whereas Flash Party's wavedash is nearly useless as a movement option (at least when I played it last).

I would appreciate if the team took some time to reconsider the change and explore other ways to slow the game down, such as increasing mana costs of key movement abilities, increasing the time to kill so there's more time to respond to engages and track players, or adding a draft mechanic that increases glider speed when following a teammate's glider so slower players can more easily keep up with their faster teammates.

[glass flicker]

Talking about it - not ready to commit to a date yet, though. Some of the timing is to make sure that queues are still healthy given playtest, but I hear you.

[restive patio]

Speaking of mobility and momentum: Is tc aware of dashes cancelling certain abilities intended effects?

Some examples could be Ghost nade being instantly negated by dashing at the right time, Bishop punch doing the same.

It feels quite bad to play with because I feel like my kit and hard work (esp with Ghost nade and trying to peel myself with it) is being invalidated by characters who have dash up, or have more dashes than me and can just ignore my one peel tool.

#1312922578620252212 message

A great thread on the issues

[bold cipher]

And why not making Supervive for everyone (like the saturday or Wednesday) the actual playtest. For one day per month, everyone will play SV but in the playtest. You will have more feedback, player will have a full day to experience a full patch. And to still give the opportunity for ppl to play arena and Scrims, the playtest won't affect them. It's a win for everyone.

idk, it might be hard in term of infrastructure, but i would love this

[glass flicker]

I'll take a look at this in a bit.

Oh, yes. I saw this posted a few times. Noting it now.

[sly quail]

and please please please make joule unable to dash through hudson's wires. it's so stupid. joule can already play against hudson super while she really doesn't need the ability to just ignore part of his kit. and with that his wires also need to deploy fast, I literally have to predict like 10 seconds in advance to just place my wires where they need to be. I can predict a felix ulting into me but it doesn't matter since my wires don't deploy fast enough for it to matter.

some hudson complaints I have :)

[glass flicker]

We limit it for queue reasons - if we had the queue on for a day, it'd be an additional one and impact queue times. We also do filter by specific skill bands depending on what we're testing (generally ok in the version you're talking about, but yeah.)

[bold cipher]

Yes, but it would replace the Squads and duos for one day, and not be an additional queue. So logically it wouldn't impact queue times

[glass flicker]

Appreciate this breakdown - have seen a version of this take. Shared it with the team.

[bold cipher]

anyway thx for the answer it's sleep time now

[glass flicker]

Gotcha. It can be hard to force everyone into it. Maybe if we made it clear it was an event? But yeah, have a good night!

[glass flicker]

I'll be interested in your take next week.

[sly quail]

I'm honestly curious what yall changed. I at least hope the dash reset thing was at the very least adjusted. And also the new hunter looks mega dope.

[glass flicker]

Nice, yeah. I honestly love his kit, too.

Alright, hung out longer than usual! Getting a late dinner.

Saros soon...

[night nymph]

If you think about it this is what you did when testing resurgence and the scaling armor changes.

[cobalt cypress]

As opposed to going through the entire feedback form just for this, dropping in specifically to say that shift reset on knock is still an incredibly frustrating mechanic to play against especially plus the heal and serves only to snowball fights.
Mobility adjustments are IMO meaningless so long as dashes are as prevalent as they are, in combat or otherwise.

[shut nexus]

I’m gonna give the other side to this I’m not the biggest fan of the movement adjustments but I acknowledge they reason behind so I’m ok with waiting to see how it develops

When it comes to the dash resets I have little to no issue with them I find them to make the game much more enjoyable and I feel that the only real outliers with this change are the characters that don’t really benefit from it like Hudson and ghost after putting enough time into the update I really don’t feel like it’s that big of a problem on joule I think people are just now realizing how strong she is because other top tier characters have been nerfed

(I will say I don’t play ghost or Hudson so I can’t really speak on them but it does seem to be a lot weaker on them due to their lack of mobility)

[cobalt cypress]

I experience virtually zero benefit from dash resets since I play Void.

[limber arch]

I don't get this bc I get so much value from the reset on Void

[cobalt cypress]

might be a duos v squads thing

[worldly eagle]

yep, being able to chase for a kill with your dash is a lot more viable on Void now, since you can dash again right after. Also the double fade away if you are confident : stun q ult, auto auto, dash away, pop q, dash again - ive yet to pull it off, but gaddam am i trying XD I like the changes, they arent too bad. Just need to find a solution for the ramp in speed during a fight if one or two gets knocked without a trade due to the increased chase potential. Higher TTK is almost always my solution until it becomes a problem, right now I dont feel like supervive is to slow in fights, and some if not a lot might feel its too fast, especially with the learning curve being so steep on top of it all. I think the ttk personally is a bit on the fast side and strategy and position get lost in the confusion of being popped so fast.

[limber arch]

Which one are you playing bc I've been playing both? You can go in aggressively for a kill and swap out. Also you can prep for the reset by throwing out swap before you get the knock, then you have a second swap available

[cobalt cypress]

I exclusively play duos because 9/10 teams alive by endgame in squads is a problem that should've been solved years ago.

I don't know who/what you're playing against where you can swap in for kills without getting CC'd and instantly killed but I would love to get those sorts of lobbies so I can fight people that play hyperpassive v. Void.

[quiet depot]

#1342752441770446899 message

has the team noticed this? is there a bug, or was the spike height intentionally increased?

[limber arch]

You just swap stun someone who's low and then get out

[worldly eagle]

Also when are we gonna get a storm grenade storm shift? where every chest and such drops a storm grenade, could be so fun.

[cobalt cypress]

I stand by my previous statement. Who/what are you playing against that plays so hyperpassive v. Void that they and their team let you swap them?

[limber arch]

No lol you swap yourself to them when they're low. You don't have to swap anyone

[cobalt cypress]

Again, not a circumstance I find myself in, albeit for different reasons. If enemies are low enough that I could safely swap in and kill them without getting hard CC'd and instantly killed (as anyone with their monitor on does to a Void that swaps at them), I'm probably in a position to kill them without needing to swap, which probably means they were playing passive enough beforehand anyway.

[rustic turtle]

I have two questions,

-With heal on knock being a thing now, how do you see the current state of the protectors?
-When are we going to see new support/protector hunters?

[slender oasis]

In April we'll get a new support

I agree though, TC need to slow down on dps hunters and give support and protector/tank enjoyers some love

[naive crown]

Ive noticed nearly every game with hero based combat lack in healer/support options and are lobsided with dps. And that then devolves into an issue almost every time where the small support/tank roster doesnt cover enough niches so they are made stronger and now we got tripple support/goats.

Shouldnt probably happen in vive but its possible they release a busted healer who either overshadows every other healer or healer has more dps so must pick op

[bold cipher]

The best option would be to buff Elluna a lil bit the same patch of the new supp realease. Zeph is strong enough imo so he doesn’t have to worry

[naive crown]

I feel bad for elluna players cus the character is pretty heavily neutered. And the balance changes they make to her are on the lines of "she is too hard to catch lets make her slower" instead of wondering why she is hard to punish for new players (her base hp is pretty high and toughness value allows for hybrid)

I remember when her lmb slowed her down more then hudson

[cold gazelle]

Any word on the fireside chat?

[slow crown]

Saros looks right up my alley, thanks for the work

[velvet moss]

wisp exec and her bugs are more detrimental to her strength than anything else atm, a lot of hunters can insta counter her, and then you have oath and zeph who just can do everything xdddddddd

[limber arch]

Yeah tbh just make Elluna stop randomly dropping wisps

[velvet moss]

idt she beats celeste bug wise, but still bugged beyond fun

[naive crown]

Just realized the two characters I like the most are the buggiest

[sly quail]

All of the characters I like got pretty buggy ults

[plain epoch]

bro why do you always have the worst takes about the game balance

[limber arch]

Please explain to me how fixing Elluna's passive so that it no longer sometimes just fully drops your allied wisps, and works like it's intended, is a bad take

[plain epoch]

not talking about this instance

[limber arch]

Oh then that's easy

they're not bad takes, you just don't know what you're talking about 🙂

[plain epoch]

right...

is the water polluted there in Na?

i assume you are Na with these horrible takes

[limber arch]

I have no idea who you are and don't feel like wasting my time guessing

[plain epoch]

nice try to random check, random

are you even good at the game?

like at all

[limber arch]

? Great, so we agree. We're both randoms and you're randomly @ing me on a comment you apparently weren't referencing to randomly shit talk.

[plain epoch]

you are famous for having bad takes

[limber arch]

well, you know what they say about publicity

[plain epoch]

and i just saw an opportunity to tell you that

[limber arch]

💀

You have a good day now

[naive crown]

so like what was that abot

[sly quail]

I see some very weird convos in this server

[limber arch]

Idk bro just started flaming me for actually no reason

[spark ice]

I bet he’s a Brall player who only sees you advocating for Brall nerds and doesn’t know how chill you really are

[limber arch]

I honestly can't tell if you're being sarcastic but seeing as how you're one of like 3 Brall players not yet OD'd on copium, I respect you 😂

[spark ice]

I am not being sarcastic lmao

[limber arch]

https://tenor.com/view/yay-sponge-bob-happy-celebration-job-gif-16749034145274435654

[glass flicker]

Thread got weird while I was gone. Lol.

Starting the Saros one up in a bit!

[hasty kiln]

hi jess

[limber arch]

fr lol

I've got an hour before I have to go so I am ready for the Saros discussion 😄

[hasty kiln]

love saros, need bugs fixed tho

[restive patio]

also love Saros, also want his bugs fixed lol

[limber arch]

^ and some QoL changes to his dash. The only dash that doesn't work with anything lol