Cosmic Winter Jubilee Megathread

[gray crow]

You're wrong man.

[lapis field]

Nah I mean previously I could get a kill or two in fights and be fine, but now the last member on the squad can run away and I cannot chase them to secure the squad wipe

[rich harbor]

my entire team is receiving the exact same RP for games

ther eis no difference in RP gain within the same squad

i would be absolutely dumbfounded if u prove otherwise

genuinely

[lapis field]

Misc you might be not taking into account the bonus rp. As far as I've noticed that is the only difference in rp in my squads because we're not all the same rank

[rich harbor]

is that what u are complaining about on void??? u think ur getting less RP than ur teammates because they "get the lasthits" ?

[lapis field]

That wasn't me that typed about the rp dude.

Well, the differing rp in squads

[rich harbor]

apologies.

the differing rp in squads come from bonuses, these only exist in bronze - diamond.

if u arent receiving bonuses i hate to tell you its because the game considers your mmr to be below your rank 😭

its less based on performance and more on "is this a smurf account that should be WAYYYY higher rank than it currently is"

venomous was getting like +100 in bonuses when queing with tyler1

[lapis field]

Well to be fair we don't actually know the specifics of how "bonus rp" works. We just have some baseline idea and conjecture.

[rich harbor]

i was only told by pretty reliable sources its when ur mmr is higher than ur rank

[gray crow]

okay Im just gonna like, restate this in full so we're not confusing each other.

The RP gain and loss is the same UP UNTIL you get to the bonus. Last patch, bonus was a minor amount. like around 15 on the high end. This patch, bonus RP factors in your own personal kills. Meaning knocks that YOU last hit, that then got finished off to box. This Bonus is not shared between teammates and varies WILDLY. I'm seeing bonuses in excess of 40, while other people on the same team are getting bonuses of single digits or maybe low 10's. That difference is because of the personal kill tracking that Bonuses now take into account. Which they didn't do before, and should not do.

I literally just played a game with a premade squad. We won the game. We were all diamond or masters, except for 1 player who was Gold. at least 2 of us got Bonus RP of around 35. The gold player, the one who should be getting more because he's the lowest rank, got 9. Nine. Because he was playing Elluna and he didn't actually knock anyone. he snared, he healed, he played well. But he didn't get the knocks. So he got barely +RP in that game at all, while we all got +30ish.

[rich harbor]

i was in plat-diamond getting full legend lobbies already for instance

so it rewarded me

[lapis field]

Anyway hopping off the bus now, will chat more later probably

[rich harbor]

thats a issue then, i didnt know about this element!

[gray crow]

This is what I'm saying you're misunderstanding. You're describing the way bonuses used to function. That's how they functioned last patch. Absolutely. THIS patch, they explicitly take into account Personal Kills.

And that's why people are getting such WILDLY high RP games.

Like over 100

[rich harbor]

im very sorry in that case and i fully agree thats problematic

[lapis field]

That is nuts actually lol

[rich harbor]

wasnt taking the lower rank bonus system into consideration

forgot thats a thing

[rich harbor]

we had a legend game with +112 today tbf

we killed 9 or 10 of the squads

lmao

[gray crow]

and I don't have a problem with that honestly.

[rich harbor]

with bonuses im sure lower games have potential to hit 150-200 even

[gray crow]

But you're wrong about it being a Diamond and lower thing only

one sec, I can show you

[rich harbor]

master+ dont receive bonuses unless that was also changed

[gray crow]

I got this screenshot from a friend in masters. This is from a game that happened maybe an hour ago

[rich harbor]

hmmmm interesting

maybe master now gets bonuses aswell

[gray crow]

You can see he clearly got a Bonus of 49. And I'm not sure what hunter he was playing, but I know that he's a VERY aggressive, kill focused player.

[rich harbor]

hitting legend u need like 3000 RP now

it would make sense if getting to grandmaster was made easier on purpose

and master is included in bonuses now

my hot-take is still that legend should be top200 not top100

[gray crow]

Yeah except that the system actively fucks over supports and controllers and incentivizes people to play like idiots because the bonus matters almost more than the rest of the points.

[rich harbor]

especially since the playerbase is larger than it was for playtesting

maybe even add a entirely new rank for the top50 and change legend to top20

i think it would improve the game 🤷

[gray crow]

Like, we know about the "squad wipe to get RP" thing. But, lets just say hypothetically that I'm playing Joule. And i"m popping tf off hard. I'm getting knocks and elims like crazy, but we're just never able to finish off a team, and then we die at like, idk 6th place. Because I was getting a bunch of elims, my bonus is going to make up for the RP I would have lost.

But even if I was hypothetically just last hitting, and my teammates were setting up kills with amazing hooks and stuns and whatnot, they don't get the bonus. Only I do.

THAT is fucking bullshit.

[rich harbor]

this can feel rough and can be a negative in the system that def isnt perfect

i only prefer it over the old one

the new system removes the old aspects of farming the same team over and over to hit 20+ (max kill rp gain)

which was VERY easy to do

[gray crow]

Except... that it's been confirmed that RP gains from the same player was already protected against.

[rich harbor]

no it hasnt! 😭

[gray crow]

Mika just said yesterday that... some dev that I can't remember the name of, had confirmed that there were protections against killing 1 guy, waiting for them to rez, then killing them again.

[rich harbor]

mika is not a reliable source, ever 😭

[gray crow]

I'm not pulling this out of my ass, a dev confirmed there were protections in place, or at least there was supposed to be something in place. I can personally vouch for killing someone, getting RP once, having them rez and fight me later on, and getting no RP from killing them a second time.

[rich harbor]

it counts as a kill once the wisp has died, if all my teammates have 5 kills and 5+5+5+5 = 20, we always gained the maximum RP

[gray crow]

I know, for a fact, that that has happened to me personally.

[rich harbor]

there have been 0 instances where a enemy has resurrected and i killed them again

and the game said fuck it hes not getting a kill

for me atleast

[gray crow]

So you're contending that in theory, before this patch, you could kill the same 3 people over and over again 7 times, and get max RP for that game

[rich harbor]

like i said, i have had 8th places and have gained RP, that should never happen idc how good i perform after drop

snowballing to level 5 with possibly good powers / armor while others dont have the same thing

its not hard to run people down and farm kills

that should not be rewarded with RP

for full eliminations there is more commitment and risk involved

[gray crow]

brother that's literally what is being rewarded right now. Running them down is mandatory now xD

[rich harbor]

.

going to the groceryy store now byebye

scared to walk past bushes cus i might run into you standing in them!

keep in mind killing me wont give u rp anymore 😛

[gray crow]

You act like I've been part of this "farming players" problem that literally only exists in extremely high rated lobbies.

[rich harbor]

mmmm chicken is on sale yummers

[desert lagoon]

This was the case before

Just a note

How in the fuck is this patch better at preventing that lol?

Lobbies that are a stomp are still going to be a stomp
You get more points than before for fully wiping a bad team, so good teams are of course, doing just that

It's actually a far bigger problem than it was before, because now we are just directly incentivised to end their game early

People weren't (atleast to my knowledge) keeping teams alive so they got more points before, because you would probably get 20 kills regardless

They were saying "look, we could chase, or we could get two gold armors"

Now it's a "Chase the last guy!!! Get the points" (and then one person takes vault)

[warped lantern]

I did
I wanted to prove a point that the ranked system was broken & matchmaking was bad so I started doing it

Since TC never takes people's word for saying a system is abusable until you actually do it and show them it in game

& fwiw if I were playing, I would be abusing the current systems even more

This is a great patch to just sit someone in a corner as oath and farm their team for Shards and armour as they respawn

It'll be really fun I promise

[desert lagoon]

lol yeah

[keen lichen]

Yall always talk when im sleeping

[boreal dirge]

dont have to talk about it like its a hypothetical, people already do that

conciously

ive seen people streaming on dc saying shit like "dont kill oath, hes slow" and then watched them run after him to farm the freshspawns to then finish the oath once night kicked in and there was a night1 boss nearby

I bet they had alot of fun!

[thick bough]

Like, I grew past this attitude that if I died, but I took 1 person with me every time I died, and then my team revived me, that I'd be gaining a lead, when I realized that my team wouldn't always be able to revive me, and that I was basically just inting.

Now this is not only a viable strategy, but a strong one

It's dumb

[desert lagoon]

THIS

The whole dying quickly = than dying late in the fight

is also just like

what

[boreal dirge]

I wouldve prefered if it was rezbeacon based tbh

[desert lagoon]

yep

[boreal dirge]

more beacons day1 all work like heart

day 2 back to old beacons

or something like a day1 mvp that u just get and gives u xp until level 4

I get the idea tho, his way the hesitancy for newer players to fight isnt there anymore and it discourages them from playing a safe early game

to then just lose to a stroner team anyways with nothing happening in that game for them

i still think that thisll start beeing harmfull as soon people get how easy it is to really just ignore stuff like oath or void early on to kill team members instead and then just stick around the poor mf for onspawn kills 💀

[gray crow]

This is actually a really good idea. Just have all beacons function like the heart on day 1. That's it, nothing else

[deep furnace]

or bonfires as respawn points

[topaz sandal]

With the new patch, pretty sure everyone gains bonuses somehow now. Im Grandmaster and got a few bonus points even on a bad game

[main mist]

I’m aware. I was saying that RP on knocks probably wouldn’t be a good idea.

[desert lagoon]

ah yea

[full shuttle]

Morning!

I'm going back and forth in here and Creator Discord today.

Think I mentioned this, but over the break, going to expand my hours to hang out daily here. Full degen.

[eager oyster]

join the club...

[full shuttle]

Yessss.

[deep furnace]

[thick bough]

Welcome safelocked! How are you this morning?

[full shuttle]

Sleepy! But good!

[thick bough]

Same, it's a very grey day over here

Great day to stay inside and chill

[full shuttle]

Woke up to seeing Evie sharing that she drew me for my birthday. Died.

[full shuttle]

I love a good grey day.

[thick bough]

Ohh my god, that is adorable

That's so sweet!

[full shuttle]

Her drawings are SO cute.

[gray crow]

happy birthday! p sure we're past it now but

[full shuttle]

I love her takes on the whole roster.

[gray crow]

a non meme happy birthday lol

[full shuttle]

Appreciate it!

Got birthday drinks with Joe and a few others yesterday.

[deep furnace]

[thick bough]

Sounds like you had a good time. I'm happy for you.

[wild trellis]

I'm on actual 'playing the game hiatus' until post-resurgence but I'll update if you didn't reread the KP thread that the tournament EGL ran completely changed my opinion on level 3s, so long as there's one 'vanilla but better' upgrade choice I say go all-in on the niche playstyle upgrades, seeing a specialist in those styles win a tournament through them is hype as fuck

[full shuttle]

Roger - I'll take a look!

Planning on scrubbing the Hunter channels again for the ideas I didn't catch since the first pass today. The bump's good timing.

[gray crow]

maybe this is sidetracking, maybe not. But as much as I hate to say it, I'm strongly feeling like being on hiatus till the resurgence/map changes are reverted too.

[wild trellis]

oh I am well ahead of you game is currently uninstalled

[full shuttle]

All good! Understood it's not going to be for everyone.

[gray crow]

I don't want to be overly negative but all my experience this patch has been negative.

[full shuttle]

Yeah, I've read some of the notes in General chat.

[gray crow]

yeah. sorry. I feel like I'm just being hardcore negative and I don't want to be. But I'm kind of upset.

[full shuttle]

I think it's totally reasonable to feel strongly about something you like changing.

You're good.

[thick bough]

Yeah, I'm trying to look for the silver linings as well... Apologies if my feedback for the past couple days has been too... Impatient.

[wild trellis]

it's not so much the fact it's changing for me but it just feels like mimicry without understanding, you can't do resurgence on a BR map that's why actual resurgence is on rebirth island etc

[full shuttle]

I don't think I'm seeing it here, but I have seen a little bit of the - hey, I like this, then people bashing them for liking something.

Just mainly want to avoid that.

[wild trellis]

I think it's difficult that the Discord created 2 threads on the matter - pros and cons - but the pros one existed solely to mock the cons one

[eager oyster]

such is the internet unfortunately LOL

[gray crow]

that's fair it just feels like this patch disproportionately effects some people.So when you have like, a Brall player saying wow this is so fun. Well, yeah. I'm sure it is for Brall players, it plays to his strengths and playstyle.

[full shuttle]

My life for some way to manage Discord discussion topics. Lol.

[iron leaf]

ooo i forgot its saturday 😭

hello everyone

[gray crow]

same with new players. If you don't know anything about the game or care about competing in it, then it's pretty easy to have silly fun. But it's hard to take that feedback seriously because it's just not in the same context as other feedback.

[full shuttle]

I have a note on Brall. After I scrub the rest of the Level 3 callouts, I'm coming back to him and Jin.

[thick bough]

There have been so many... Rough... Discussion/feedback threads lately. Honestly, I might take the holidays off from giving feedback while you Devs are on Holiday.

[gray crow]

different experiences through different contexts for enjoyment.

[wild trellis]

do patch megathreads rather than event megathreads, the most significant changes are happening between events

[full shuttle]

Yeah, good call. Our patch cadence sped up since I started these.

[wild trellis]

they don't necessarily need to be your threads, just have the community manager prepare quarantine rooms

[deep furnace]

devs intentions/ideas would be nice to hear. getting to understand whats being worked on. without spoilers, but atleast getting to know stuff thats bugged is known and getting worked on. that would fix retention for me. we all (or i and id expect most) want to try and help.

[full shuttle]

Hahah - yeah, super understandable.

Rest up. The world is bigger than Discord, too. I'm going to hang a shelf later.

[thick bough]

Btw, I've made a ton of notes on Brall's design, including what specific parts of his kit seem the most frustrating for non-Brall players as well as Brall players, along with some proposed changes. Do you think it would be well received by Devs to put that kinda post out, or not so helpful?

[gray crow]

my question is always why
Like, experiments and changes are fine but it's hard to evaluate anything beyond surface level if you don't know the intended outcome of something

where your head is at when you make a change

[full shuttle]

Fireside's meant to be this, but I'm down to explore different formats, too.

[iron leaf]

My friend and I were talking this morning like, "we're going to look at TC's misfires on game changes one day and say 'remember that one patch when...'"

[full shuttle]

We also try to balance how much we cover, since it's easy for walkthroughs to get long.

[eager oyster]

remembah universal melee

[gray crow]

Can I DM you about this? I had an idea regarding this specifically. formats.

[eager oyster]

i would not mind an extended fireside chat

[iron leaf]

we were talking about the minimap sonar changes (which I really don't like)

[full shuttle]

For sure.

I do think if you're taking a break though, I would just take the break.

So no rush - but if it's easy and top of mind, feel free to share.

[gray crow]

This is by far the most confusing, and I think impactful change this patch. Resurgence feels actually hard to examine by itself because the map knowledge everyone has is SO impactful.

like are we feeling the effects of day 1 respawns? Or is it that everyone knows where everyone is all game?

[thick bough]

Btw, safelocked, when are you going to rename to froglocked?

[gray crow]

Probably a mix but, my money is on the knowledge actually being more impactful

[iron leaf]

i need to become a frog as well..

[full shuttle]

I feel like I'm missing something...

Lol.

[gray crow]

you're missing the influence of the frog

[deep furnace]

id take any/all info you can give me, here on the discord, in game and on socials (tho the last one isnt for me i still feel it should be there too)

[thick bough]

The frogs are invading. I don't know how it happened, but even I became a frog.

[deep furnace]

ribbit

[wild trellis]

I'm literally just keeping my phone out with Saturday night pizza in the oven so I'm not invested in conversation per se but, a public outstanding bugs list (with game exploits redacted) might put some minds at ease

[deep furnace]

like a thread in the hunter channels to see at a glance, known bugs, future fixes and maybe possible thoughts about changes. that'd be the best thing ever. (and lock it for non-devs, so it doesnt become cluttered(!)).

[full shuttle]

Pizza in the oven sounds sick. Enjoy your Saturday night.

[wild trellis]

I was thinking something less Discord-pilled but yeah maybe pinned link to that

[thick bough]

So what's on the docket for today?

[wild trellis]

could even just be a footnote in the beta patches themselves

[deep furnace]

it can be in the steam patches

yh

but just info, reassurance mostly, ig.

[warped lantern]

I do kinda worry about admin hell here

One of my old bosses used to try to make me and my team keep track of every bug investigation and keep their status updated for like while we're actively working on them etc.

We lasted a month or two before just being like look, most bugs get fixed within like 10 minutes of looking at it so there's no point keeping it updated but rather just close it out, many things turn out to just not be bugs and we can just close it, and anything investigatory has a pretty high chance to just not find anything

And we ended up spending more time updating tickets than we did actually doing our jobs

[thick bough]

^+1

[warped lantern]

So I do really understand why they don't want to keep both an internal and an external bug list updated

It's not really that important to the playerbase

[thick bough]

I don't work in this field, but I've also had bosses that were more focused on making sure tickets were updated than actual progress being made

[warped lantern]

That said, I do think a lot of Bugfix changes could definitely be in patch notes, patch notes in general feel like they are very poorly updated

I'm not quite sure what the development process for Loki is exactly but surely if there's any version control you can just look through which changes went into the build by commit note and generally write it up in like 30 minutes per patch?

But maybe it's not that simple idk

[modern haven]

Me and my friends love resurgence but I’ve seen this happen too and avoided saying anything positive about it anywhere outside the positive feedback thread 💀

[warped lantern]

I feel like it would be helpful both for us, the playerbase, and for the team as developers to have an accurate list of what's actually changed in the game

[wicked echo]

new patch most fun I had so far

[deep furnace]

id work for less than minimum wage to get everything people are saying and get out whats being thought about/worked on internally in 1 file that then could get compacted and shared in which ever way necessary 🫡

[warped lantern]

I imagine TC would do better to actually just hire a technical author

At least in the UK it would be like £40-50k a year which is probably cheaper than most staff TC has lol

Although that's very rarely 9-5 idk what the actual hourly rate is

Just before you go offering to do it for below minimum wage haha

[deep furnace]

i have free time and would love to help

[eager oyster]

as a purely casual player, i can say the changes they pushed are trending towards positive, and can definitely be iterated on (which they have stated multiple times that they are going to do). i DO think the onboarding is still suffering from a legitimate, in-depth tutorial though

[gray crow]

I don't see how the changes are more friendly towards solo players though

new players, I understand that

solo play tho is worse than it was, because comms are more important than they were before.

[rich harbor]

🗣️

[rich harbor]

they arent, at all

everything was improved EXCEPT the soloque experience

which was worsened by the changes

[gray crow]

ig I understand the thought behind "more map info is better for solos" but because the info is available and more impactful for squads, any benefit a solo would get is drowned out by the benefit squads get

[rich harbor]

so if that was their goal it failed miserably

but the game overall is more fun

[gray crow]

the anouncement implied that the solo experience had improved.

Which I was confused by

[rich harbor]

best summary

anything they add to the game for soloques will also benefit squads unfortunately lmaoooo

[gray crow]

i don't think that's universally true.

but if it's in the vein of this sort of global change

then yeah

[rich harbor]

the only way to improve soloque experience is to cancel the failed duos experiment

and have solo-squads and 4man as modes

[gray crow]

I don't think that would do anything?

oh i see.

I dont think there's enough players for that atm

[rich harbor]

idek anymore man

[gray crow]

duos isnt to blame for that

[rich harbor]

ima let the devs figure it out

im having fun in premades

and the ques are still below 5min pre 3am

so im all good for now

[gray crow]

im just stuck begging my team to stop chasing

[keen lichen]

And ive not played for weeks now

Hi everyone

Is there a topic today or even a talk

[full shuttle]

Hahah, yeah, I'm getting a lot of that right now.

Appreciate it. My hope's that it becomes easier to share different perspectives here and let them lie a little more.

[full shuttle]

Was just mentioning that I'll finish scrubbing the Hunter channels for the rest of the Level 3 suggestions since the last snapshot I took of everyone's suggestions.

I'll be hanging out here and in the Creator discord daily for the next two weeks.

Topic I'll want to cover after this Level 3 clean-up today will probably be Brall. Maybe Jin too, but Brall seems like the right focus.

[keen lichen]

Sadly hudson chat has been quite deceased lately so not much talk on lvl3's

[modern haven]

working through the holidays omg?

[full shuttle]

Also, this is so real.

[full shuttle]

My boundary-setting is probably poor. Lol.

But I legitimately find it fun, so will do it at a reasonable pace for me.

[keen lichen]

Please get rest sometimes. Burnout is not fun

[lapis field]

Hi I'm just getting here now, what's the topic atm?

[full shuttle]

I'm just going to take today pulling from the rest of the Level 3 ideas that came in since the last snapshot I took.

Afterwards, was going to pivot to Brall.

[cobalt void]

Hi safelocked! Late today as always lol, this time throwing axes with the fam for christmas

[lapis field]

Sweet! I am so here for the brall conversation

[full shuttle]

That's amazing. Are you serious?

[full shuttle]

I'm so ready.

[cobalt void]

Yep, just a chill axe throwing session. My first time and i still have all my limbs!

[lapis field]

That is an achievement

[cobalt void]

Also mega hyped for jin convo

[keen lichen]

Do Jin mains know of the super secret hudson tech I have planned for them but havent managed to execute yet

[lapis field]

I really want to know this lmao

[keen lichen]

Hold on lemme find the file

[cobalt void]

You mean the "nerf hudson" gif lol or like actual tech?

[keen lichen]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1253842747421622314/1318286986267856986/Loki_2024.12.16_-_20.40.34.02.DVR.mp4?ex=67685d6e&is=67670bee&hm=8f01321eccbf16e7fa7546cb725a9a56f7de46ae2e90fff40f405cad8d14124b&

You see his wire dmg can stack in a spesific case

So in theory you could bait a dagger from a jin. Turn your back to the wires and then push him with shift and ult at the same time

Should be instant death

[lapis field]

If you can pull that off you'll be my hero

[cobalt void]

This looks sick and if i wasnt stuck with family id totally hop on and lab it with you lol

I did have a cool play as hudson against jin a bit back where i did this (kinda) and pinned him to a wall

[keen lichen]

The wire stacking was even funnier last patch cus amplifier would allow you to quadruple stack wires

Managed to reach 1.5k dmg burst

[cobalt void]

@keen lichen kinda sorta this i guess lol

[keen lichen]

But the entire thing with wires is that they behave extremely wonky

[cobalt void]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/852642429830955111/1314399779861696592/hudson_barb_wire_trap.mp4?ex=676810ef&is=6766bf6f&hm=072bd78fb2a957e281a91f85a04f62f3d65c7fc46d7bddef9ff34b50f7e45bba&

Meant to link vid lol my b

Ah gotcha

[keen lichen]

Ah this clip I think I commented on it

Nearly perfect wire placement.

[thick bough]

What direction do you want to discuss Brall with? Level 3s? Overall balance? Opinions?

[lapis field]

I hope balance

[keen lichen]

One thing I wonder if wisp executing is fine. And if straight to deathbox is fair

[thick bough]

Other characters have straight to deathbox too

Bishop notably

doesn't make it better, but I'm throwing it out there

[keen lichen]

Does it send you to deathbox from alive? Didnt know that

I know punch can pop wisps and so can shrike ult (i think her ult does cant remember)

Also id like if hudson ult wasnt straight to deathbox

Id like getting wisp stompers value

Does brall still get something from ulting wisps?

[lapis field]

heal from his passive iirc

unless I'm totally mistaken which could be the case

[thick bough]

If you die by getting punched into a wall, then yeah. Straight-to-deathbox

[keen lichen]

Cus the one big issue I had with brall was him walking up to a wisp. Using ult on wisp for a free ult reset,heal and passive

Deathboxing in general is a little jarring

Atleast to me

[keen lichen]

Funnily enough hudsons passive is worded to heal on knock and kill but only does 1 of either

Unless he ults someone to deathbox then his passive works properly

[swift sapphire]

Ulting a wisp never healed, I'm so confused why so many people think this is a thing lol

[keen lichen]

It didnt?

[full shuttle]

I'm about to go on a quick errand, but I'll take both balance and playing against thoughts!

[brittle arch]

happy birthday safelocked!

[full shuttle]

Thank you!!

[keen lichen]

How many times has she been born at this point???

[brittle arch]

Idk she ages like 1 year a day

Crazy stuff

[swift sapphire]

I don't think so, no worries tho, at this point I just find it funny how many people think that it does/did.

[tulip stratus]

Happy birthday nerd

[thick bough]

I've been actually talking with Brall mains a lot recently about Brall, because he appears to be in this interesting state where he is simultaneously frustrating to play against, and frustrating to play.

He's meant to be a high-skill floor, high-skill ceiling character, but there are aspects to him that make his power inconsistent, regardless of skill, and that can be frustrating even for the most skillful Brall players.
At the same time though, these qualities of him also make him frustrating for his opponents, because he appears to "randomly" be incredibly strong at times.

[lapis field]

It definitely did heal at one point. I remember seeing a video of ulting a wisp healing Brall in the storm before healing in the storm was patched out.

[thick bough]

People don't understand how he works, and that's one thing (not necessarily a problem with design), but when those parts of the kit are simultaneously hard to understand and hard to play around even when you do understand, it becomes problematic, imo

[swift sapphire]

It would have to have been prior to OB, because it definitely hasn't healed since at least then.

[thick bough]

Basically, I think his empowerment passive needs to be reworked.

[lapis field]

Pensato with the 🔥 takes as per usual

[thick bough]

When he is empowered, there isn't really much Brall's opponents can do against him except hope that he ints.
At the same time though, Brall when he is not empowered is really weak

finding a balance between the two would hopefully help both Brall players and Brall's opponents feel less frustrated with the character

That's 1 thing.
Another thing is LMB vs RMB.

LMBrall is typically considered less skillful, more noob-friendly.
RMBrall tends to be considered more skillful, more OTP-friendly.

[keen lichen]

I love when I hear brall passive go off and instantly know its bralling time and then he bralls all over me

Large sweaty black man swining his large weapon wildly infront of me

[thick bough]

While the conversation over whether one playstyle should be favored over another tends to be very clouded by personal bias, from what I've seen:
People who want LMBrall tend to want it because they feel jaded over both Brall's nerfs and Brall being weak without empowerment. They feel like a really strong, really easy playstyle around LMB during empowerment is justified by how weak Brall is without empowerment and how difficult his movement is to learn.

People who want RMBrall back tend to dislike the ease-of-use of LMBrall and feel like the character deserves to only reward those with high levels of mastery in the character.

I think whether LMB or RMB is favored more or less is determined by how the empower passive is reworked.

I was talking with Toumi a little bit, and we were talking about what if the empower didn't boost LMB attack speed and Damage, and only gave CDR.
And then, as compensation, Brall just got an overall damage buff, regardless of empower.

Conversation like this can only really be so productive though, because numbers are just numbers until they are tested with and balanced around.
Completely removing LMB attack speed steroid from Empower could turn the character from one of the strongest in the game to the worst in the game, who knows.

Whatever change is made preferably works around the empower, and adjusting power in the character based on how skillful the player should be required to be to succeed with the character.

I am also a fan of the idea of turning RMB from a 0.5 second animation to a 0.6 second animation, but that's just me.

There are also a lot of bugs with his RMB, so probably just fixing those would help

[lapis field]

It's interesting reading all of this because I almost never get run down by Brall LMB alone. It's his insane mobility and immune during R that makes him impossible to play against. I feel like there is no counterplay when someone knows what they're doing on him. I'd settle for some mobility nerfs - This is from me, a person who has only played Brall a handful of times so take this all witha grain of salt ofc

[thick bough]

Brall is extremely difficult to play against, but I think the removal of wisp executes refunding his ult completely has already made him so much easier to fight.

Trust me, dueling someone like Hight or Retry on Brall is a damn nightmare, but it can be done.

I also play one of the few characters in the game with an even matchup against Brall though, so my perspective is biased.

[keen lichen]

My only annoyance with brall was the ult wisp reset. Other then that bralls running away are kind of annoying. But I do play a slow character so idk

[dreamy crest]

the frustration for me and some other people I've talked to is how many ways brall can also reset his ult, despite it being on a 20s cooldown

[plush lake]

the healing boots healed you when you're on the wisp and a lot of bralls used them thats probably why

[plush lake]

last night I was playing against yggdrasil and hight all night

actually miserable

looking at you yggdrasil

[deep furnace]

lol

[swift sapphire]

I think the LMB is the main thing that is removing the counterplay in those scenarios. It means he doesn't need to invest his resources to get yours, and then he can spend all his resources to follow up on that.

[cobalt void]

Dealing with brall is time-sensative. He needs to be enhanced to kill you but he can get enhanced by starting an engagement, landing 1 rmb, then getting out, popping a vive, and jumping back in to finish getting enhanced and procede to steamroll with insane dps and healing. The counterplay is to kill him on his first engagement which is very difficult if he is not in a congested area

Or dodging the rmb helps a lot

[swift sapphire]

I was playing Hybrid Brall so I did was doing way way less damage than a normal Brall would.

[lapis field]

Also very difficult to do when you're worrying about 3 other enemies too.

[plush lake]

thats why you were so tanky explains a lot

[swift sapphire]

The benefit of Hybrid Brall is that people assume you are damage Brall and think you are slightly more of a threat than you actually are

[plush lake]

to be fair your team had red armor like 90% of the time we saw you

so that helps a bit lmao

[deep furnace]

the way brall seems to stick on you (not sure if auto or skill) and is able to get away and back into fights soo quickly/easily is both what (ig) makes him fun and horrible to try and play against, especially as a freeze main where his abilities just go through my main defense (wall).

[lapis field]

Yeah the wall inconsistently blocking things is atrocious. So many times I die to Jin or Brall just ignoring it when I cast it.

[thick bough]

Yeah, let's be real though. That's a celeste problem, not a brall problem. That wall needs to be fixed

[lapis field]

Thought it would be a good idea to bring it up during the Brall convo since Brall is one of the major offenders

[sharp solstice]

Guys I think brall is a hunter and I have no thoughts or opinions on any subject. Thank you.

[lapis field]

Back to Brall though I feel like his mobility and ability to engage/disengage so freely puts up SO much pressure. You almost have to focus him otherwise he'll beat your whole team from the back, but if you focus him his team beats yours from the front.

Somebody in another thread put it in much better words than I will right now but I'll try anyway. To paraphrase: "Brall's action economy is insane compared to any other individual character. He demands so many resources to play around him, while committing so few himself".

[thick bough]

Brall's design is one that is going to frustrating for people. That's just the nature of the game. People are gonna get frustrated at characters like Master Yi or Yasuo as well. I think it becomes particularly problematic when the frustration goes both ways

Like, people are gonna get frustrated with Shiv too sometimes. The thing that makes her okay, imo, is that she is consistent. When you play well on her, you will be rewarded. When you do not play well, you will struggle more.
Brall isn't consistent in his skill-expression

[swift sapphire]

For sure, my job was to engage and get CDs & disrupt, and then it was mostly Jin & Shiv cleaning up. The best things people did to counterplay this was to avoid using CDs to pressure me and primarily use LMBs to pressure me instead, and using their abilities to respond to my abilities rather than using their abilities first and letting me respond to them. It works a lot better against Hybrid Brall than damage Brall because damage Brall's empowered LMB can beat most everyones LMBs, meaning he can force them to act first, letting the Brall respond to win the exchange two fold.

[plush lake]

pure damage is definitely better but hybrid wasn't bad at all

[swift sapphire]

Yeah, you just have to rely on your team to follow up, you can't really follow up yourself like damage Brall can. It does make early game a lot worse tho xD, so usually I just play anchor (fk off from fights first and be the reviver/farmer).

[neon thorn]

If brall is going to have a huge rework I propose to put less value in his lmb, move it back to rmb, and revert to old tether momentum (cannot pivot past the tether point and does a quick move toward that spot), seems to touch on people’s issues, makes his skill ceiling a lot higher, and doesn’t gut him like a fish. Could be down to maybe make tether cooldown start when he casts the pull too. By making his skill floor higher putting value back into rmb, and going back to old tether we touch on many points. Many players issues with brall are dealing with the plethora of players who can pick him up and just spam lmb and win. Id encourage you not to change the character to not be a brawler and if choice is possible, give up some movement for brawling I guess, if you change brall to be how jay plays it (no offense to jay and he knows this), I would probably quit the game altogether. Would not like that as one of the few people who has been one tricking brall since ronin days

(This is not to say that balance wise I even think that he needs all of these rebalances, you guys at TC know his winrate is not as insane as people feel, but I am not against touching his pain points to play against if it means people will stop complaining)

[swift sapphire]

makes his skill ceiling a lot higher
Did you mean skill floor?

Nvm you also said that after

[neon thorn]

reworded a bit but yea by putting value into rmb and making dash chain momentum a lot less, it will make the character a lot harder to pilot and master while getting rid of his “hax” and 0 cooldown lmb cheese when he misses everything

will allow players to punish him having no cooldowns

[lapis field]

I like your suggestions a lot. the biggest issue I have with Brall is a lack of window to engage him in. He currently has zero (it feels like) downtime to punish him.

[desert lagoon]

Downtime is definetly the biggest thing

that he needs

[swift sapphire]

revert to old tether momentum
What do you mean by old tether momentum, I think there's been multiple changes to it and it's not clear what your referring too or what it accomplishes.

Could be down to maybe make tether cooldown start when he casts the pull too
I feel like this removes a lot of skill expression with little benefit, I'd rather increase the tether CD if needed than remove that feature.

Id encourage you not to change the character to not be a brawler and if choice is possible, give up some movement for brawling I guess
I initially misread this because of the double negative, and was very confused, but what does giving up movement for brawling mean? Because movement is also very helpful for brawling.

I think it'd almost be easier to just describe how you want to play the character, and what you want to keep. I think I have more of the context of how you want to play than most people here and I'm still confused by a lot of this.

[neon thorn]

Old tether (before the rework) did not allow you to get huge momentum past the tether point and usually meant going to the point of connection, disallows these massive pivot plays (which I think are cool, but contribute to a lot of people’s pain points). In terms of the movement point I meant redistribute a lot of his movement (i.e. the tether or like the little dash forward on rmb tap) toward his individual ability damage range so he has more of a glass cannon that can’t weave in and out. These are not necessarily preferable changes for someone like me, but would address many pain points of other players and would maintain his high skill ceiling and ability to outplay.

[neon thorn]

Yea I think a lot of peoples issue lies in the fact that brall can just auto attack and win anyway when you get all of his cooldowns, or just run across the map anyway. Would you agree with this as yours?

(On a higher level and not on some oh I should have lost that but don’t like it format)

[gray crow]

According to the stats we have available, he has the highest winrate in the game in squads.

it's possible that those are outdated and maybe this patch things have changed, I'm not sure.

But that's the stats we have available.

[neon thorn]

According to TC stats (internal ones we can’t see) his winrate was not and thus he was buffed recently

but I am always down for a slight rework to make the character less frustrating

[gray crow]

ok but do we know about this patch?

bc I'm under the impression that the stats available currently are for this patch.

I could be wrong

but pre-buff would have been a bit ago

Not now.

[thick bough]

The stats from supervive-stats.com come only from the top 100 players

[neon thorn]

regardless I have mentioned that I am down for a rework and have offered solutions that touch on his pain points and you cherry picked a small part of it and have taken tons of space to do so

[thick bough]

so they are extremely skewed

[gray crow]

Fair.

I don't think he's less frustrating in lower ranks though. Maybe in super low

[neon thorn]

Will re link this for anyone curious and would love to hear opinions

#1317559515495010426 message

[gray crow]

Any rework is going to have to either be sweeping to the point of changing his identity, or it has to leverage his mobility against his damage. He shouldnt have both. And the ult just needs to be fully different. No invuln.

[neon thorn]

yes

if you read what I said

you would have not written that

😄

[gray crow]

i did read

[neon thorn]

I say that we have to remove mobility

explicitly

[gray crow]

yes, I see that.

I also mentioned the ultimate

which you didn't mention.

also like, it's a discussion thread idk why you're acting like if you said it no one can ever say it again lol

[deep furnace]

(i read what you said pensato-frog but this still is funny)

[lapis field]

I'd generally agree. I want to clarify that yes his auto attacks are contributing to the feeling of "no down time", but the biggest offender in my eyes is his amount of mobility, and then the cooldowns feeling too short for the strength of his abilities.

[gray crow]

for me im not even sure the LMB's are the issue. He's an LMB character, that's fine. But it's the fact that even if you play the interaction right, he'll still win the fight most of the time. And if not, he'll get away.

[lapis field]

All of these together make him feel oppressive and unfun to engage with.

[gray crow]

Like as Void I can stun him, ult him, and just sit there dpsing but unless I'm massively ahead of him in levels or items, He's going to survive that and kill me afterwards.

I did all I can do

he still wins.

as Ghost, jesus there's just nothing you can do lol.

Myth's only option is knock him back and run.

Joule is really the only character that has a solid chance to actually beat him in a fight.

unless he turbo messes up his abilities

[keen lichen]

So his problem is lack of downtime between abilities since his lmb makes up for his ability downtime?

[gray crow]

?

No I don't think that's the point at all lol

[keen lichen]

Oki

[lapis field]

I'd say that's a major component of his problems for me specifically.

[gray crow]

He simply needs to have his mobility leveraged against his damage.

And his ult needs to not exist like it does.

Big hitbox, invuln the entire time, instant cast, so fast it's very difficult to dodge, heals him, executes to box, and resets.

That's just too many words for an ability.

Too many words.

[deep furnace]

boxing wisps when wisps are what you might need to play around is stupid, remove that at the very very verrryyy least.

[lapis field]

I actually think his ult is fine outside of the resets. It just needs a cd that reflects how potent of a tool it is

[keen lichen]

Strong ult is fine but needs to have a penatly for missing it

[neon thorn]

Tested this, his ult does not heal much if you don’t run last stand

[gray crow]

That would be something. Personally I think no one should have an invincible button. It's the same frustration as like Ekko from League. He goes in stupidly, he presses button and erases his mistakes. And frequently wins the fight off of it.

[neon thorn]

around 1/5

u heal around 100 damage with full rampage and no last stand

on ult

[gray crow]

off of 1 person maybe. But it heals based on damage done. You can say it's a skill issue all day but it's not my fault if my team clumps up around me to try and get him off of me lol

[neon thorn]

that’s just soloq issues idk what to tell u

[gray crow]

the reaction to a diver can't be "oh stay away"

no, it's not just soloq issues lol

[neon thorn]

when u play against jin and ur teammate walks into u at 25% hp giving him 2 flips it’s the same idea no?

[gray crow]

Jin is another frustrating character lol

but at least he doesn't have an invuln

[thick bough]

Okay, I think giving our feelings on the matter is good, is valuable, but I think frustration is a commonly given feeling of feedback.

Like I mentioned before, some characters are just going to be more frustrating than others. That isn't the problem

[neon thorn]

I agree

every character is frustrating

people just feel more frustrated in matchups unfavorable to them

will relink this and move on as I think it is the most fair rework to touch on people’s ideas but is not one I would particularly be super happy with as I enjoy moving around the map as brall. A more correct rework would be to increase his cooldowns which I understand would not actually fix the feeling of frustration but would balance him

#1317559515495010426 message

[desert lagoon]

increasing his cooldowns would make him less frustrating

Specifically ult

[neon thorn]

from a high elo standpoint, yes, you are a legend player and therefore you see the issue from the correct pov

most players in this thread and that argue about brall are not

[desert lagoon]

There is nothing more frustrating than trading ults with a brall as a void

[neon thorn]

and they are victims to moving around the map quickly and lmb spam

[desert lagoon]

Sure

true

[neon thorn]

I agree the most fair balance would be to increase his dash cooldown probably

and maybe his lvl 3 ult a bit

but most of the people here are not playing around this

and feel frustrated at his baseline which I tried to touch on a bit, but this would not solve the frustration issue at its core that most people are victims to

[desert lagoon]

Yeah, I mean it's a specific matchup but it does feel like brall can run in, put a ton of preasure on you, ult -> get out

wait for his shorter cd's and go back in

[keen lichen]

Then 20 seconds later do it again

[desert lagoon]

yea

[neon thorn]

I think void might be one of the biggest victims yea

[desert lagoon]

It's really rough

Like do i just.. not try to ult him+

and die?

[neon thorn]

dash cooldown would definitely help that

if brall doesn’t have 2 dashes up, even if he ults in the center, he can’t get out of ult

btw

[desert lagoon]

Void is even one of the 'better' matchups

[desert lagoon]

Depends on empowered void or not

[neon thorn]

true

but there are def two ways to approach the fair or the fun balancing

and I think people don’t want the fair

[keen lichen]

I do wonder if empower mode is an issue

[desert lagoon]

I think his empower lmb is

[thick bough]

That would be something interesting: Increasing his base cooldowns for dash and tether, but increasing the CD from empower to match it to the current CDs while empowered

[desert lagoon]

definetly an issue

he hits it and now he just swoosh swooshes me to death

[keen lichen]

Like i mean the concept of the empower it self. Think its cool but does that leave the hunter feeling lacking without it?

[thick bough]

I think he's got to keep the empower because of all the Vfx

[neon thorn]

problem is if you address everything actoss the board including fair but frustrating and unfair but chilling you gut the character into the ground

[desert lagoon]

Yeah

it's hard

[neon thorn]

you need to pick one path as he is the character most forced to be collapsed on

jin can teleport out that his hack to being in ur face for a while

brall has to physically move in and out

when it comes to melee characters the only one without good options is firefox probably

[desert lagoon]

Tbh that might be part of the problem
The 'good' fighters all have a get-out-of-jail card

Joule/jin press ult and they're gone

[neon thorn]

all of the ranged fighters are never in jail

[desert lagoon]

Ehhh I mean.. idk about that

[keen lichen]

You in jail with me

[desert lagoon]

like you hit some CC or.. catch them with no dash

a ranged character is dead

[thick bough]

this feels like a difference in definition between us, not that either of us is specifically incorrect

[desert lagoon]

Jin/joule will have ult dash up still

[neon thorn]

I meant more that they aren’t forced to be in your face to be effective

[desert lagoon]

yeah i know

[neon thorn]

like for example if brall shouldn’t be able to go in and out and he engages in an oath team who isn’t necessarily showing at the time

should he just die every time

if the oath shows up

[vague pasture]

Oh I missed it today

[desert lagoon]

If he goes in 1v4

[neon thorn]

not 1v4

[desert lagoon]

...wouldn't that kind of be okay?

[neon thorn]

just in general as the frontliner

he’s cooked if anyone with peel shows up

because he had to get in

[keen lichen]

Its just brall discussion todays. Sorry didnt realize to ping you

[desert lagoon]

Maybe
It's hard

[vague pasture]

Nah DW I wasn't necessarily going to be available anyway

[keen lichen]

(I wasnt honestly participating much either since I havent played brall)

[neon thorn]

I agree with what chipsa said earlier ngl

I don’t think the issue is that brall is overkitted, I think the issue is that other chars are underkitted and don’t fit into the supervive design philosophy and pace

[lapis field]

#1317559515495010426 message

I could be wrong, bnut I think Jess will be back sometime tonight

[neon thorn]

they are still in Loki mode

I think brall is a very cool character that fits the new supervive pace

and I would love to see other chars adapted toward that

given more options

rather than simplifying everyone

[keen lichen]

I kinda want them go go grazy with character kits, be brave.

[desert lagoon]

See I kind of agree with this, but i also don't

[vague pasture]

I want the game to be fun

[desert lagoon]

I think some characters are very very cool because of their loki astethics

void is an easy example

[keen lichen]

I wonder if some of these issues get worse or will they get resolved when they add more characters into the game

[desert lagoon]

idk

[vague pasture]

Tough question

[desert lagoon]

I just know that what i want from a character(s)

is to think

"Wow I got outplayed, he did that well"

and not like "ah man the brall was empowered and pressed LMB -> ult on me"

kinda

[keen lichen]

I want bolt action rifle character based around good movement.

Not shrike

[vague pasture]

I want the Battlerite's somewhat clear path to victory and easy to deconstruct where you effed up but also not being a boring flowchart

I want Ent character that does crazy nature stuff

[deep furnace]

worse

its why i dislike league

[keen lichen]

What if void had a new passive where him hitting an RMB broke both of bralls ankles and cripples him for life

[swift sapphire]

Here’s an interesting question, what is the most acceptable way that Brall is frustrating for y’all? Because I don’t think it’s reasonable/feasible to remove every frustrating thing about him, and it might be helpful to identify the more acceptable sources of frustration vs the less acceptable sources.

[vague pasture]

Him having his knees broken if he doesn't manage his dashes

But that's a non issue once the player knows how to play Brall and won't ever do that mistake again

[keen lichen]

Brall pulling out after busting his load on me and not finishing me off cus I fought back a little

Then coming in for seconds

[wicked echo]

REAL

[keen lichen]

In lame mans terms. Brall attack me. Wastes an ability (ult) then leaving cus he was low and coming back to finnish me off cus now all his cool downs are up again and my ults still on cd

[zenith galleon]

What we talking about?

[keen lichen]

Or just hitting a quikie on me never to be seen again

[lapis field]

Brall. anything is welcome

[zenith galleon]

Yes

[zenith galleon]

Why is shiv level 3 upgrade so ass 😕

Feel like there were so many options even tame which would’ve been more interesting

[echo jay]

Why Vampric Helmet should be added

[vague pasture]

No but I know it came around a lot when I pitched my mana charge system: it would be a very good way to break Brall's knees. Brall still being a monster once mastered and played good but an engine that breaks on misteps would be fair

[keen lichen]

Why hudson lvl 3 is 10% dmg

[echo jay]

Lets begin discussing it now

[zenith galleon]

If we wanted to make it on hit why not give her a shield on hit, Movement speed, extra onnivamp not a shift reset

If your gonna e in most of the time ur gonna have shift, if you don’t have shift ur probably not in the situation where you wanna e in

[zenith galleon]

Overloaded but I like him want more characters as stupid as him, hot take maybe

[keen lichen]

Its 2 am

[vague pasture]

1am

And it's winter

[zenith galleon]

12am actually

[keen lichen]

It was the shortest day of the year

We got like 4 hours of sunlight I think

[vague pasture]

Fr

[keen lichen]

And it was covered by the trees and clouds

[vague pasture]

I woke up it was night, lived a little, took a nap, it was night again

[zenith galleon]

Same, I feel like the character we have now are all basic/relatively easy enough for new players, now we need those most crazier characters to come we already got most of the basics down

[keen lichen]

Supervive aah day/night cycles fr

[zenith galleon]

No more ghosts 🙏🏾

[vague pasture]

Fr fr

[keen lichen]

Then summer the sun dont set like wdym

Its 3am am and I have to use sunglasses

I think ive thought about brall enough im gonna go sleep

Hoping he wont come into my dreams at this point

[deep furnace]

[full shuttle]

I'm back! Will take a read in a bit and summarize here.

Appreciate it, as usual. 🙂

[full shuttle]

Lmao, thanks.

[deep furnace]

lot of brall talk near the end in here.... 😬

[gray crow]

so, "Correct POV" here is sorta... like, I get it. Listening to players who don't know the game is a dumb idea. But you can also overcorrect to the highest percentile players too. Listening to Challenger players in League for instance, is usually kinda bad for the game. On certain issues, their knowledge is important, but if you balance around them, the game becomes miserable for 99.99% of players.

My personal opinion is that games should be balanced around like, the 85th percentile of players. Not the average or below average skill, but not the literal 0.001% either. Players that are knowledgeable and good at the game, but don't happen to be just insanely gifted mechanical players, typically are a solid middle ground. That's just my opinion to be fair.

[gray crow]

Ik yall already announced you're keeping things till Jan 8th but, the more I think about things, the more I realize that so much feedback (including my own) is colored by all 3 major changes happening at once. I think Resurgence and the ranked changes might be easier to evaluate and appreciate if the radar/visual cues weren't a thing. That is imo the most game warping and negative part of this patch. It's just really easy to point at a different issue but I think most people agree that the radar (just like the old sonar change) takes away so much from the game and makes things too Team Deathmatch-ey

[main mist]

I, for one, would still not be a fan of resurgence even if it were tested on its own with no other changes ever present for the next year.
I'd argue that all three of the changes at the same time exacerbate any/all problems that each change has, and having all 3 definitely makes it harder to evaluate each independently, but I'm not going to pretend that any of the changes would be less problematic without any other changes going live at the same time - audio pings would be just as bad, resurgence would still be just as bad, and the ranked change would still be something that I have no thoughts on.

[cobalt void]

The only problem i had with audio before this patch was that north and south audio was often inverted. If that was fixed id say the audio in this game is mostly fine.

[swift sapphire]

Curious to see what you gather, kinda feels like we’ve covered just about everything he does across all the different perspectives people have for what is frustrating lol.

[thick bough]

Yeah I think we were mostly productive

[swift sapphire]

Nah I’m saying that if every part of the kit seems to be considered frustrating for someone it starts to seem a lot less useful for figuring out what the solution is.

[thick bough]

lol, yeah that's probably a better way to put it

[trail ridge]

General solution to that is to make things predictable.
If its going to frustrate someone, make that condition and progression gradual and interactable.

[swift sapphire]

I think another thing that would help with his chase/escape potential is if mana blade (rampage) wasn’t best in slot for him already with the passive alone.

I play without a mana blade (because I enjoy playing around the mana and weaving ranged lmbs to keep mana up ect) and it helps limit his chase/escape potential. Which I think was the intent, and I think it’s fine to go a mana blade to let you do more of that, but I also think there should be a tradeoff for doing so, but there isn’t really.

[trail ridge]

One of my initial proposals align with this.
Reevaluating:

1. Level 3 abilities are all about projectile deletions and counter
2. For example most of melee type level 3 abilities now erase projectiles
3. Which is incredibly frustrating if it was for “single” characters kit
4. But becomes predictable if all melee type heroes would get it, strategies will build

The projectile deletion was a draft proposal but enough to demonstrate why this kind of unification in game mechanics is important making the strategic tree even and mathematically better.

Hope next time I could contribute in the more meaningful way.

[gray crow]

Yes but the thing is, resurgence only effects day one. Even if it's bad, it's only so bad. It has a limited effect. The ranked points changes have limited effect, there's about to be a ranked reset.

The audio cue changes impact every second of every game. They are always high impact, and they make the problems the game already had much worse.

The only thing making me truly dislike games right now is the audio cue stuff. Giving everyone perma radar takes away from the core of the game. Strategy and macro is out the window, because no one has to wonder or think or worry about where anyone is. You always know.

[plush lake]

after playing with the ranked changes for a good 10 or so hours

absolutely miserable

playing characters with no mobility feels like throwing now

every time there's a solo player teams will throw everything to chase them down to an unnecessary point sometimes even just throwing the game to kill a solo

fighting early game feels awful now but almost necessary

the respawns mean that dying early is a non factor unless your team dies (the rez SHOULD NOT work while the team is in combat)

the void buffs were really nice

he doesn't feel unfair to play against

thats nice at least

[thick bough]

Yeah, the void Lmb changes feel very good in my opinion

[thick bough]

I agree with that premise.

My frustration facing Brall has drastically decreased since I learned how to consistently play against him.

Once I learned how to interact with him, that is.

[dreamy crest]

@thick bough have you ever tried fighting brall as a void?

I'm probably terrible at the game but I personally think unless the brall makes multiple large errors he just beats void

[eager oyster]

based ascending armor being the universally neutral-to-enjoyed addition to the game

[swift sapphire]

I might just be bad at void but I also kinda feel that applies to a lot of Void’s 1v1 matchups ngl. Brall is probably the worst offender in that scenario for sure tho.

[dreamy crest]

even jin dies when you stun him

brall is the only person who doesn't

I had more trouble against random bralls than I did against lemur on jin

for one, brall's ult lets him consistently cheat void's ult regardless of how many dashes he has. and it will heal him back up assuming he hits it, which is very easy against void

[thick bough]

yes

not easy

very brall-favored from what I know

my advice would be to use your e to break his momentum when he swings in (very hard to pull off, needs prediction), and then kite backwards with empowered lmbs while he dashes forwards, and then bait out ultimate with rmb. After he ults and has no dashes, you can safely ult him and he should die.

Again. Very brall-favored

simply because the void side of things is immensely difficult

[dreamy crest]

it's painfully brall favoured

it feels like there's no way to actually win assuming equal skill levels and patience

even when I do get a stun on brall all he needs to do is press r on wakeup and anything I planned to do is moot, and if I do nothing then I die anyways

[thick bough]

If you break it down, it comes down to whether Brall hits his air-slam or not.
If he hits it, he is already on top of you and you can't win.
If you break his momentum with E, then you can win.

With perfect play on both sides, I think it may actually be void favored, but hard to tell

Average level of play, Brall favored. High level of play, Brall favored. Perfect level of play, maybe void wins more than loses

[thick bough]

if you are empowered, and he has no dashes, then even if he ults your rmb, he should still get hit by your ultimate

so bait out his dashes and try to build empower

[dreamy crest]

I need to test the empowered situation

I think he's still faster

[thick bough]

lmk what the testing says. My bet is that he can't wasd out of an empowered void ult

even with the short invuln

[dreamy crest]

he can press r

is my problem

maybe he can't get out without dashes though you're right

he can however hit you and heal enough to outlive any damage you do from what I recall, unless by some miracle you still have e left after the whole exchange

[thick bough]

with e max the e should come back up, I think

idk though

it may come down to having an ally to help you kill, but that's not too bad, I think

[dreamy crest]

from experience it usually boils down to needing someone to help you kill brall

at least in arena

[swift sapphire]

Idk if it’s helpful, but he can’t cancel RMB to ult. So maybe there’s a way to make use of that?

I’ve definitely gotten hit by the ult because I went for an RMB boop to help my disengage right as they started casting ult.

[dreamy crest]

that is very helpful

I wonder if the most reliable way to deal with brall is just to try and read him slamming in and just ult right away

[swift sapphire]

He can still dash with RMBs but he won’t carry the momentum as much.

[dreamy crest]

there goes those hopes

[swift sapphire]

Yeah, he also doesn’t have to RMB because he can just LMB you to death almost just as fast and he can cancel those with ult.

[dreamy crest]

the only times I've been able to beat bralls reliably in arena is if they try to just tether directly at me from a screen away, but I'm not exacty scared of those bralls

[swift sapphire]

Or at least it’s fast enough to where it doesn’t seem to matter much. I haven’t payed close enough attention to know for sure.

[dreamy crest]

I would also imagine ghost/celeste/shrike/myth have similar, if not more difficulties dealing with brall than void

[swift sapphire]

Celeste mostly because wall doesn’t block the execute for some reason. Ghost might have enough juice now with the damage buffs to make it sufficiently difficult for the Brall, Shrike is Shrike, and idk about Myth really, I think her disengage through walls is awkward for Brall to follow so I don’t think I end up engaging too directly in the 1v1s all that much with her.

Void the counterplay is rather straight forward because the dynamic parts of his kit are quite react-able, and the rest is predictable.

Most dashes aren’t reactable and are also dynamic making the gameplay more contextual so more avenues for variation one way or the other.

I have a lot more time to decide if I can stand on Void TP or not on reaction, (his most dynamic ability) than I have to identify what wall Ghost will throw nade onto and how to dodge it/if I need to ult it ect.

[dreamy crest]

Ah I see

Thanks for all the tips

[warped lantern]

Brall v myth 1v1 is complicated I think, but currently brall wins - not because of an individual trade coming up winning for him, but because trading everything properly ends you both back outside effective range, but brall gets his CDs back twice as fast as myth does

So it generally results in a pretty neutral or equal trade so neither gets much of an advantage, but once both have used their cooldowns brall can just sit in cover for 5 seconds and come back with everything off cooldown again

[rich harbor]

im about to say it and i will be ridiculed

the only current hunter that consistantly beats brall currently is dps elluna.

this works for any brall player that isnt blixtmen atleast

[lapis field]

https://tenor.com/view/side-eye-dog-suspicious-look-suspicious-doubt-dog-doubt-gif-23680990

[thick bough]

You are right.

...

You will be ridiculed

[warped lantern]

I don't think that's winning for elluna at all haha

[rich harbor]

im clipping my next brall 1v1

[deep furnace]

[rich harbor]

billions must bow to the elluna technology

[deep furnace]

i wanna see!

[lapis field]

This has big "Ivern beats Darius level 1" vibes

[rich harbor]

yuumi beats kassadin bro

trust me

[lapis field]

lmao I trust you

[keen lichen]

Ive never really had issues against brall as hudson but havent played in a bit. Might be that most bralls ive faced have been bad but felt like hubby CAN stat check brall

[swift sapphire]

Stalling Brall is pretty positive usually I think, due to being melee, but it’s weird because most of the stalling people have is selfish. So I just go for the weakest link and have to deal with a fraction of the stalling potential. So I guess that’s why Myth is rarely my choice of target to open a fight onto.

[keen lichen]

Only issue is he fights me when he wants since I have no way of following him

[swift sapphire]

In my experience he just punishes mistakes faster but you still lose if I don’t make mistakes. Ult jumping was kinda a hard counter to the barb wire tho, so maybe the removal of that makes a relevant difference if the Hudson is good with the wire placement.

I’ve hardly seen Hudson since the nerfs tbh.

[keen lichen]

No one really plays him. I kind of play him cus I want his fantasy realized so im just gathering info on him

I dont currently enjoy his playstyle but I see the potential

He really wasnt fit for release imo. Half his ability descriptions are wrong and the abilities have weird jank to them. He needed more care put into him

[rich harbor]

the best way to nerf brall is hit em with the myth rmb treatment imo, limit the time he can hold his dash chargeup / tether more

myth had a patch where after 1.5sec of holding her RMB released, it got increased to 3sec later

brall needs the same treatment

so he cant just stand there holding his spell till he deems fit

[keen lichen]

Do you mean like using shift would put a timer and at the end of it all charges go on a combined cd?

[rich harbor]

no

im talking about when he holds his stab or whatever it is that gives him the momentum forward

ive never played the hunter

but he has that thing he holds and then dashes forward with that gives him crazy momentum

put that on a hold-limit so he cant hold it for longer than 2 seconds

and limit the tether duration aswell

[keen lichen]

Oh rmb thing

[rich harbor]

that shits like 10 seconds or something

he can take it whenever he sees fit with no punishment

• while it lasts the cd is ticking down

who thought thats a good mechanic

literally back to back tethers

[desert lagoon]

if you're 1v1

you just put e on yourself and brall can't do much

The issue is... you're most likely not 1v1, and brall has allies that can shoot you, so you can't just stand in your E

and if that's the case, you can't really do anything, even if you ground him into RMB stun, it's not enough to prevent him from ulting your ult

and he's very happy with that trade

[gray crow]

The thing is, even if you're 1v1, he'll just tank the damage and not care. And then murder you.

Until late game that is

Which like 90% of my Brall interactions are him one shotting me mid game

[keen lichen]

Btw how high is bralls base hp

I felt it was quite high

[gray crow]

It's not thaaat high

It's like...

Idk around 1800 level 9?

[keen lichen]

Looking at the wiki it seems he has the highest base hp

I dont have access to pc rn so cant check how stuff works with his toughness scaling since max hp at lvl 9 isnt listed on wiki

But there its listed he has the higest base hp and hp growth of everyone

[plush lake]

I’m pretty sure he has the highest hp but lowest hp scaling (don’t quote me on that) basically meaning he is the tankiest double blade character

[gray crow]

......

Well that explains a lot

And also makes me laugh at a Brall main confidently saying that Brall was the squishiest character in the game

[plush lake]

You also have to keep in mind most bralls will be building last stand

Giving him a ton of life steal when he’s low

[gray crow]

Good character

[plush lake]

Also controversial opinion but if you took away one dash charge on his shift I think he would be balanced

[swift sapphire]

This is correct.

[plush lake]

What do you think about this

My biggest gripe with brall is just the movement so I feel taking one dash charge would take away all of my pain in playing against him

Or maybe make his level 2 dash reduce the cool down instead of giving another dash

[gray crow]

Controversial or just wrong?

[plush lake]

Idk like I said I think for me at least I wouldn’t have any issue with brall if he had one less dash

[gray crow]

I have an issue with his ult

It has too many words and shouldn't reset

[keen lichen]

If brall ult can reset so should hudson ult

[gray crow]

So should Void ult

[keen lichen]

Well technically every ult resets

[gray crow]

I'll settle for a reset on knock for RMB

[swift sapphire]

I don’t think it would really help too much for frustration personally.

[keen lichen]

What if we just made him squishier

[swift sapphire]

My thinking is that it doesn’t really make closing the gap initially any more difficult for the Brall and the Brall has to be more reserved with their plays, but the effect of thay does not seem like it would be very visible to the enemies.

[swift sapphire]

@full shuttle Linking this feedback thread on Brall for its excellent organization and good questions as another source compared to the more chaotic/open eneded discussion we had here previously.

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1320743121583210568

[plush lake]

Big vouch I just took a look at the thread and added my own experiences, very well organized and very calm headed unlike most brall discussion

[full shuttle]

You're the best.

[zenith galleon]

Not sure if this is obvious but im assuming jan 8th ranked patch we'll be given the new character too?

@ someoneimportant

[full shuttle]

Secret.

[swift sapphire]

Ohh look it’s someone important!

[full shuttle]

Lol

Sahri and Jay: Both Very Important

[zenith galleon]

https://tenor.com/view/real-real-recognise-real-deadly-alliance-handshake-mkda-gif-1958256448154814146

hope one of these days we can talk about the training/tutorial which i think frankly needs a rework/facelift 🙏🏿 i got ideas

[full shuttle]

Yeah, I’ve got a bunch of thoughts from folks on that topic. I’m in to grab more from ya too.

Thanks @swift sapphire and @urban matrix by the way on the Brall thread. Made summarizing to the team straightforward.

[wild trellis]

when that day comes I have an interest given just how many people I have given a from zero rundown of the game, but today is that not day (got to that post-||cathedral|| twist in Refantazio soooooo)

[zenith galleon]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1317967720230158417

[urban matrix]

you are more than welcome friendo

[zenith galleon]

I wrote a little post about it here

But I think the fighting game style tutorials could be something which can work in Supervive

[full shuttle]

JMo also had some of the ideas listed in mind, too.

[zenith galleon]

They’re more fun then traditional forced tutorial/training then normal games

They’re OPT in so players can choose what to learn/do

And can easily be tied in with missions for retention in the beginning like “completing the beginners playlist for ….” Ect

[zenith galleon]

@ safelocked

[full shuttle]

Reading now!

[full shuttle]

Since we go over things like spiking (which, I have seen players mention they’re still on that mastery journey even after the tutorial.) Fair to say the main suggestion here is to reframe the tutorial as different challenges?

[zenith galleon]

Not sure if ur familiar but this was the inspo for the idea

[zenith galleon]

Yea, from this fighting game I play it basically taught u the game for challenges

[wild trellis]

there needs to be optional 'further reading' in an interactive context

[zenith galleon]

So movement it’ll say left right to move blah blah

Then u do some reps of that

Like it’ll go in depth then give u a scenerio

[full shuttle]

Appreciate the Skullgirls reference.

[zenith galleon]

Another example is like I didn’t know

I’m fighting games blocking low was better 9/10s out of 10

I’m the blocking tutorial in the beginning it tells u how u can hold back to block

Then goes onto add how blocking low is better because ….

Then u do some reps of blocking

In a Supervive context I can see this where in the gliding section or maybe “abyss”

It goes over how u can glide over gaps

So players know how to glide

Get them to do some fun challenge course for gliding to “master the skill”

Then next talk about dangers of gliding

Being spiked

Then a similar course where there’s bots shooting at them easier and advise the player to go over some distances with dashes if they can

And in the challenge have it where they do a mixture of both imitating how it could be in game where u might dash over the abyss then when safe u glide ect…

[zenith galleon]

Yea that’s one way to put it, but I think more importantly it’s making the tutorial feel more like training instead of something your forced to do

With dynamic activities/scenarios like those makes learning the game more fun

Because it’s like your getting coached whilst still interacting with the gameplay

I think In my post I gave an idea for maybe respawn beacons when teaching that had a challenge for the player to try get a revive on a beacon whilst being attacked, it’s a game scenerio, challenging, can be fun, more inclined to do it

[full shuttle]

You can sort of skip through a bunch of the material, too. I’m sure it washes over players at a certain point.

This idea reminds me of the Smash challenges, too.

[zenith galleon]

That’s another reason why I’m for it as well

Because some players might understand the basics from previous games

But maybe not the harder things

So they’d rather jump into tutorials about things they genuinely might not know

Or maybe a gold player wanting to know about “expert tech”

Such as letting go of glider before reaching ground to gain height

Or letting go of glider before going into rings to go abit faster

I feel like it suits Supervive just because the game has so much different things going on

[thick bough]

Or feathering glider while being attacked to not get spiked but stay above abyss

[wild trellis]

do you remember the time trial the practice mode used to have? some more of those would do the trick on this front

[zenith galleon]

And if you really wanted to take it 1 step further which I think would be great is having character ones too

Like Mastering Brall

Where the beginning ones are just learning applications of abilities

And the harder activities put you in scenarios specific to character so brall maybe in a 1v15 situation (haha) where he has to get x amount of ult resets without missing

Or a felix having to get a 3 man pull

A shiv having too complete a fight without missing a empowered shot

Ect ect

Can really be expanded quite deeply

And if we wanted to be really cheeky

If those challenges could be timed depending on how its setup and then have leaderboards of who got the fastest time on xyz challenge like Mario kart ghost trials 😂

^ bit of a reach but I feel like it gets across the idea of how the tutorial/training being framed differently can have many options from that

[full shuttle]

Yeah, it’s why I like the word challenge - starts making you imagine ways you can measure your progress across the different ones, and that’s cool too.

Practice Mode time trial was thought of in this vein, for sure. One focused on gliding and spiking, vs. broad traversal might be stronger.

[thick bough]

Mario Kart Supervive tourney when

[zenith galleon]

Yea defiantly would be better to separate those 2 elements and then maybe a final challenge or the last one of that broader section being abit of everything together gliding spiking broad traversal

[zenith galleon]

First to reach academy wins

[wild trellis]

though I think the two should be intertwined, perhaps a time trial where the guards can spike? thus marrying the concepts

perhaps not the most immediately available trials however

[full shuttle]

Yep - to clarify, was mainly thinking about how the time trial we had before had grind rails and a bunch of dot islands in addition.

[eager oyster]

tutorials in the vein of fighting game trials is a very cool idea

[wild trellis]

this might be somewhat cynical but maybe lock access to dailies/weeklies behind a certain baseline number of starter trials

[zenith galleon]

I cooked right?

[zenith galleon]

wym

[wild trellis]

rather than seeing those dailies/weeklies in their tab you just see the trials

since these fundamental concepts would be a greater priority to the player's progression than "open like 10 vaults"

[eager oyster]

oh that would be a good onboarding change

[zenith galleon]

oh like some of the begginer ones until theyve done a few to incentivise learning?

[blazing beacon]

I think "getting better" is a different motivation than "playing for fun" for a lot of players and the dailies/weeklies are a thing separate from tutorials/training challenges

[eager oyster]

that's also a fair point

i think some of the fun havers also hit a wall that they're unaware of simply because they aren't mechanically tuned to everything that can happen in the game, though

maybe it's because we've been playing a long time, but i find it very baffling that some people complain about getting insta-spiked when gliding, as if that's they're only option, etc.

[wild trellis]

first 3 or so yeah

[wild trellis]

this would be something to be done in an hour tops, and ultimately a worthwhile trade-off if it means they can more effectively complete said dailies/weeklies

I know because I've had a couple of people who never touch ranked and only play for hunter's journey XP, all of whom reported being much more satisfied with them having a skillful means to optimise their tasks rather than grinding for games where it just happens, usually through teammates

case in point I think there's one to do with creep clear that I remember a specific onboardee of mine told me they hated significantly less once I explained all the things that do/do not stagger (they previously thought staggering was burst damage related)

[blazing beacon]

I see, Ive never been the type to pay attention to battle pass or challenge stuff so your anecdotes sound valuable

[lapis field]

As a player who only started during Next Fest i think I can speak for the new players experience at least as it was a couple months ago.

The tutorial teaches you next to nothing about abyss fighting and what can/can't spike you. It took me probably a week to understand that I should be dashing over the abyss - this is something I had to learn from friends playing the game - and then it took me another 2 weeks of working on glider discipline to stop gliding over the abyss when I didn't need to.

I think the tutorial could do a much better job of emphasizing the importance of crossing gaps without the glider. The glider being so easy and fun to use (which is a good thing) almost pushes new players in to using it all the time even when they shouldn't (which is a bad thing)

I think it just needs to be spelled out in significantly clearer terms that "GLIDING SHOULD BE YOUR LAST OPTION TO CROSS GAPS", but of course in nicer and more educational words than that.

Maybe an interactive section of the tutorial where a ghost is spraying at you and the objective is to cross the gap without dying could be useful? Putting players in real game-representative scenarios can be a fantastic way to teach them.

[full shuttle]

Yeah, there was another person who was mentioning this, though their thread got derailed a bit.

I think this is super real.

(Importance of emphasizing Dashing to fight over abyss effectively.)

[lapis field]

Oh and while it's still hot on the brain: A tutorial section where you jump progressively wider gaps could be cool. It's not very clear how far you can actually jump without experimentation, but I've found SO many gaps across the br map that you wouldn't expect to be able to cross without gliding, but you can just about make it with a ledge grab.

[deep furnace]

yeahhhhh.... i remember i was like the first reply. (misccfrogg's or something like that)

[blazing beacon]

yeah mantling is not really explained in any meaningful way but is required mechanic to knwo

[plush lake]

I can easily see a world where you have challenges and the final reward is unlocking a character basically reframing the tutorial as a set of “fun challenges” to get new players started and they’re reward with a character

I also feel like supervive has a very intuitive learning curve, like how when you first see the heart it doesn’t seem that threatening so you try flying into it and die then you’ve learned that lesson in a memorable way

Or your first time getting spiked being VERY memorable

[blazing beacon]

i like the idea of you need to do a handful of basic challenges that teach you a char before you can play them

overwatch tried to do something similar but it was kinda half baked

[plush lake]

I don’t think learning should ever be a limiter

I think it should always be rewarded

But never limiting

[blazing beacon]

is that not what you said 😭

[plush lake]

No

The challenges are optional

And reward you with a free character unlock

[blazing beacon]

i see

[plush lake]

Very basic stuff

[blazing beacon]

i dont hate that, problem is char unlocks rn are suuuuuper cheap to get

[plush lake]

Yeah that’s exactly why it’s a reward

[blazing beacon]

so like doing challenges vs just playing 2 games normalyl to unlock a char

[plush lake]

It doesn’t cost theory craft anything

But the player gets a new toy to play with

Right after learning a bunch about the game

[cobalt void]

i remember for like my first 3 playtests i thought you needed to press jump against the ledge to mantle which just caused me to glide and get spiked, took forever for me to figure out it was automatic

[plush lake]

I did that for a while lmao

[rich harbor]

same

[full shuttle]

Ahh, yeah. I can see that.

[rich harbor]

a cool tutorial would be "get accross to the other side" and theres a bot-ghost shooting in burst fires (in a predictable way)

so u gotta glide cancel + mantle to get there

[iron leaf]

I think Mantling is one of the things new players trust the least

it's such a core movement mechanic but doesn't get talked about much

This was a while ago, but when I was first starting to play, i felt like I couldn't "trust" mantling. It wasn't clear you could mantle basically ledges of any height over abyss, or how often you could do it (often times I felt like I had to hit the top of the ledge to mantle"

Maybe you could have a part where a Hudson is firing constantly over abyss but you can mantle instead of glide to reach him?

I also noticed the grid at the bottom of the abyss is gone, and I feel like that was really handy when I was learning to figure out how deep the abyss is. Might be handy to either bring it back or something similar

[deep furnace]

i feel getting people used to separating their jump and glider button will be good for them to understand: spiking, (pre-patch noise and stealthy play), manteling, glider tech, abyss playing, and more.

[desert lagoon]

Yes but I think it's great having glider on the same button first, so people even realize it's there

if it's on some weird button it's not immidiatly obvious

[iron leaf]

tbh I just learned to ball with it on space

[deep furnace]

yh sorry thats what i meant with getting used to, as in teach em and then let them know they can seperate.

[iron leaf]

I don't think glider on space is that bad if you're double tapping for glider and not holding it

[keen lichen]

👉 👈

[full shuttle]

First time I woke up late.

Morning!

[wild trellis]

tráthnóna!

[keen lichen]

Morning

First time I was early for this

[desert lagoon]

Oh it's saturday

hello c:

[keen lichen]

Hi

[cobalt void]

Mornin!

[full shuttle]

Since I got all the Brall notes. Wanted to bring up Jin today.

[dreamy crest]

love jim

think him one shotting is cool but I 100% understand why it can be frustrating, especially since the punish window for him comes before he one shots you

[keen lichen]

I still need to test the validity of the Anti jin tech on hubby

[cobalt void]

Yoooo Jin time??

[keen lichen]

Maybe 👀

[full shuttle]

Yeah, I actually liked the Brall breakdown from the other thread. Maybe we can make the same questions for Jin.

I'll dig it up in a sec.

(In game. Lol.)

[keen lichen]

No text and vive thats dangerous

Think about every other viver on the sky islands

[full shuttle]

Alright, started it up - link here: https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1322654149606641814

[plush lake]

I expect all the cookies

[cobalt void]

Woo excited to type something up when i get home

[vague pasture]

Hello

[lapis field]

YOU CAN HOLD SPACE FOR GLIDER??? I am just learning this lmao. I thought it HAD to be a tap after jumping

Which is why I was surprised confused about people rebinding the glider key because I felt it was super hard to accidentally glider unless you were spamming

[swift sapphire]

Lol

[wild trellis]

people too brainrotted from other games with variable jump height

they hold space rather than tapping

I genuinely feel it's also more of an input learning curve with raw PC players than console players (lots of FGC titles as well as games like CoD and Halo have tap v hold inputs)

[gray crow]

tbf it doesn't come out as fast if you hold it vs tapping it

but for certain moves it's smoother and lets you build momentum better.

[full shuttle]

Morning!

Popping in here to say that I appreciated all the Jin feedback.

[keen lichen]

Good morning

[full shuttle]

Will probably take the next few to summarize what I've seen so far.

[full shuttle]

Morning!

Am taking 10-11 to catch up with Reliq on some potential 2025 plans. 🙂

Also, Hudson Gaming is legendary.

[keen lichen]

Hudson Gaming

Btw Hudsons ult wording and passive wording might be wrong

I belive the ult execute is 25% and not 30% like the tooltip says

And passive says on kill and knock heal (heal doesnt work with last stand btw)
But it only heals once per target and not on wisp stomp. Unless you ult them, then the heal is 50% but still doesnt work with last stand

[full shuttle]

Hudson Gaming

Noted it all for a double-check; we'll update the tooltip afterward.

Appreciate it!

[keen lichen]

You are welcome

[cobalt void]

Hello

[full shuttle]

Morning!

I saw your Winter Bombing Runs clip and died.

[cobalt void]

LOL i died too

[full shuttle]

LOL

yeah facts

[cobalt void]

not the first time it happened to me either tbh

[crimson girder]

Happy Birthday safelocked!

[full shuttle]

Is it close to my birthday, or are we the furthest away now?

Also, this Elluna is so cute.

[crimson girder]

yes

[cobalt void]

for reference this is the first time it happened lol

[full shuttle]

NO

I did laugh.

But also tragic. Lol.

[cobalt void]

I WAS FEELIN MYSELF TOO but yea was really funny, so close to the wind ring

[desert lagoon]

Fate strikes

Very funny though

[modern haven]

Do you guys plan to do new hunter release spotlight vids explaining what they do akin to league and other games? C:

I would like a beebo spotlight

[vague pasture]

Heyo

[real pecan]

Will you be open to talk about it after ? Very interesting for the future of the competitive scene 🙂

[thorn rain]

I need a lot of attention. A serious bug

[wild trellis]

am also happy to pass notes onto other TOs who are keeping an eye on SV to play their hand later if the chance comes

[full shuttle]

For sure - once we have an update to share here, will drop a note more broadly. We can open it up for discussion then! Looking forward to it.

[full shuttle]

Hi! Have seen your report in a few places on how the dupe rules work. While I don't think it's technically a bug, the implication of the dupe rule warping high level Ranked makes sense. Will bring it up with the team and talk through how to address.

[full shuttle]

Hello!

[full shuttle]

We're keeping to more bite-sized introductions to Hunters to start, but I'd love to actually share creator versions of these in the future. 🙂 Want to talk to the team about it when we come back together next week.

[eager oyster]

Season 0 hype

[zenith galleon]

Habibi callsign season 0? 🙈

[desert lagoon]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1325817111901241434

This thread is very nice

[scenic talon]

I'm ngl, as someone who has been looking very forward to playing Beebo it makes me very sad that he has no cool lvl 3's ;-;

[thick bough]

What are his lvl 3s?

[scenic talon]

That is part of base ability, not actual upgraded lvl 3's

[echo jay]

Yes. You're right.

[echo jay]

Maybe his lvl 3 should increase the roll chance to 5%

Just a suggestion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[zenith galleon]

cd and cd

literally

just cooldown reductions

hilarious they shipped it out like that

i thought we were gonna move forward to give charcters interesting level 3 options

[thick bough]

I mean, it is just the ghost treatment