Open Beta Megathread

[boreal pebble]

I think you might need uh...a blanket? Tea? I'm not sure.

Something. Please!

[severe sable]

Ive been sick for the entirity of last month. viving has been low for me while I recover

[boreal pebble]

Also, I'm definitely glued to this screen and need to actually do errands. But seeing this group makes me happy. So at least want to say hi.

[boreal pebble]

Oh no!

[severe sable]

Ty for the concern tho

[boreal pebble]

Rest up!!

[severe sable]

Waiting on doctors appoitment but enough about me.

[boreal pebble]

That's good.

[severe sable]

Is the topic ranked matchmaking or?

[boreal pebble]

It was - you can take a look at my pinned summary on last discussion, and most of today was some lingering follow-ups on the same topic + modes ideas.

I'll summarize today next time around, too.

We also went pretty broad towards the end, so I have a few follow-up threads with the team.

[rapid jetty]

Just tossing this out there but if you guys were to add a Fairy themed support character I might have some leverage in getting my wife to try the game. It would stay in line thematically with ‘high tech future fantasy world’ you guys got going.

More characters for the girlies is always nice.

[severe sable]

One thing ive had issues with recently is reviving with 0 mana. feels frankly awful

[vocal lodge]

I am gonna say I think this ranked system is more fair but conversly its not fun playing with 2x ankle weights all the time

[boreal pebble]

I'll need to take off for real now - but definitely feel free to keep posting. 🙏

[severe sable]

One thing I have issues with is the fact a lot of people are on full mute. and wondering if a honor system of sorts would maybe help with it. if you could honor teamates with a "Shotcaller" thing or something along the lines i think that could insentivce more voice chat usage

Also the ingame voice chat quality is a little bad. tleast on my end

[rapid jetty]

If you look at it this way, solo players will sometimes play with 3. And then have to watch as they try to fight Nidhogg and gang while 3 levels down white armour no powers and then to listen to them flame you when you leave the fight before it starts to try and res

[vocal lodge]

I think your missing the point. When I am fighting another team and my 2 teammates just instantly pull out glider and die or are just useless its feels very bad. When playing against other good players its literally whose 2 random teammates grief first. I do think the system is more fair but, I cant play with my friends because we are too good and when I do play I get depression from my teammates half the time and literally have to carry every game. If you had stats for legend play revives per game before and after the duo change I'd bet they have at least tripled.

[vale pumice]

yeh they're about to get flamed by me isntead on their first game ever because I have to play with brand new players

[severe sable]

Instead of flame what if we guide new players to victory. altruism for the win baby

[blissful crystal]

cause you can't teach good habits in one game 😄 players are forced to explain the same concept every game its not fun (don't flame randos btw)

[severe sable]

My experience so far is.
-Go into lobby
-ask how new they are
-get to teaching and add them for a few more games

[rapid jetty]

You don’t have to explain. If you’re the better player you just call the shots if they don’t listen then they don’t listen. No need to flame.

[severe sable]

Calmly explain the best course of action and dont expect much from them

[rapid jetty]

They don’t need to understand why fighting here is bad that’s not on you

[vocal lodge]

Its not my responsability to be a teacher every game. What If I just want to chill and play should I be expected to guide others how to play to reach that outcome. Its only expected of me because of my skill disparity with other players but thats not exactly fair.

[rapid jetty]

Everyone is having the same experience so is that not fair?

[severe sable]

Being a teacher for everyone is not expected. I just try and share my passion of this game with everyone

[vocal lodge]

Not true

I have a different experience to someone less experienced / skilled for sure

otherwise we would all have the same winrate

[severe sable]

Perfect matchmaking. everyone has the exact same winrate

[blissful crystal]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1UmbZ2_ylk

[hot hamlet]

Unfortunate that your good at the game

Out of interest though what would I say is the difference between those bronze teammates and maybe if you you had diamond teammates? Wouldn’t they be still ankle weights no matter what and if your peers are in the same boat then you’re still always going to be the difference maker no matter what?

[vocal lodge]

sure but when I can pick who I play with my teammates are competent and in discord

NA and EU have pretty different cultures a lot of people in EU just wont use mic from my experience too

[hot hamlet]

Well of course they are but I’m saying is your issue besides not being able to 4 man that your getting low elo teammates and you’d prefer higher elo ransoms?

[vocal lodge]

I mean sure I would be fine with it if there we're 40 people of relativly equal skill in a lobby

BUT getting 40 people at the top of the ladder in 1 lobby in a ranked queue realistically is never going to happen

[vale flame]

Is there any serious concern or consensus that retention is not enough for the current state? I enjoyed the game and afraid of it losing its opportunity.

[minor merlin]

It's just in the stabilisation process, we'll have to wait to see if it loses its players

[vale flame]

Of cource

During discussion I’ve found hunt showdown was an excellent reference case for redemption of a live service game.

[boreal ruin]

is the ranked restriction for masters+ in squads a permanent mechanic

[rapid jetty]

Ranked in general is being reworked/worked on. The current system is temporary

[high condor]

i think it's safe to say literally everything is temporary in terms of systems

it's just the growing pain of getting through the systems that don't exactly feel good

[boreal ruin]

I figured as much. Personally I think higher placements should have a slightly increased rp gain

[mighty belfry]

^

heavily insinuated u were legend and blocked your name to make un searchable on supervive stats

[heavy gull]

Bro it literally says ONLINE, and you are arguing over this without the full context of why i provided thay screenie

Your nameplate appears ABOVE that

Bring this to the supervive channel this is irrelevant to this thread

[mighty belfry]

LOL

you know on supervive stats if you were legend it would have a LEGEND tag right

careful you digging urself a deeper hole

[heavy gull]

Yes and?

[heavy gull]

Where are the receipts of me saying this lil bro 😭

You are proving my point 😭

Your turn now btw, you already lied about idk what being unsearchable

100% bait at this point

[mighty belfry]

idk what this means, keep coping lil bro

[vivid coral]

We desperately need KP, Oath and Hudson nerfs (which will actually put Zeph back to normal too) THIS WEEK. The playercount actually starts to go down, not up already. All because the 1st 20h of play is just bad experience vs these lame comps. For an average player with now 100+ hours, they're still a problem.

We need a balance patch this week.

[slow hornet]

high top5 rate, good kd, doesnt matter where hes playing imo hes doing well and will get there naturally.

but stop argueing, you dont need to enter a dick comparison contest in a thread on a video game discord

[slow hornet]

actual playercount will always go down until theres a major update

thats the only time where measuring playercount makes sense imo

[mighty belfry]

no comparison he asked for a receipt i tagged it

unfortunately he's been imposing the 'receipts' as he says in all types of channels

[mighty belfry]

hes a demon

[vivid coral]

like what? this is not a dlc or mmo expansion. Patch notes don't make people come back. But an annoying balance does make people log on less.

and measuring player count for a live service game always makes sense.

[heavy gull]

Thanks for the glaze but my stats are legit dogshit compared to all the other GM+ players

Realistically in a comparison to other games's ranked ladders I'm probably diamond-masters

[slow hornet]

League has higher playercounts on every major update.

not an mmo

in fact

almost every game does.

Even dying games like dark and darker for example.

[slow hornet]

youre fine man, youll get there jsut stick to it

[heavy gull]

Nah im actually not interested to get legend due to how it works 😂

[slow hornet]

;D

cant blame u on that

[heavy gull]

Top ___ in any games requires too much effort imo

I just want to be within a certain percentile bracket and im G

[tropic sage]

Actually not true, ranking shown only for top 100

[heavy gull]

Legend IS top 100 lol

[tropic sage]

source: i am the supervive-stats dev 🙂

[heavy gull]

Based

[heavy gull]

How do you get the data to show 51-100 btw?

[tropic sage]

this is a limitation we have for now

[near notch]

Aight guys let's stop please

It leads no where

And this thread isn't for that.

[atomic plinth]

do you have source code public? 🥺

[vale flame]

Broke 10,000 barrier today.
It’s going exactly with my analysis and intuition.

[twilit yacht]

doesn't take a megamind to know a game is going to lose players after it loses the initial hype and boost of promoting the game everywhere

[cold canopy]

it was fun at the start, now it's annoying

[lusty hamlet]

last post I will make about numbers on this post, but its not even a big enough loss for a mondya 9 UTC, its only 3k players 1 week after.

So yeah, anyway I would not trust this kind of analysis that analyzes everything on a vacuum chamber without taking in count other important aspects for the success of a game

[twilit yacht]

yeah server got full of ragebaiters out of nowhere have no idea why

[near notch]

Like if you're justhere for hate

You can gtfo

= )

With love ofc

[vale flame]

Let’s keep it professional.

I want you to be productive.
See the implication and proposal, and objective of my posting and analysis.

[twilit yacht]

if you are so professional why are you on a megathread about questions of the game talking about your so predicted playerbase fallof with your megamind?

Just flooding the chat with things no one cares about

genuinely amazing the entitlement someone can have

[vale flame]

Do not make an excuse on the meaningless hatepost you did.
If you genuinely want to contribute, please read the materials first.

Let’s keep it professional.

[hot hamlet]

Shouldn’t bash ^ for discussing what he wants to discuss, isn’t against rules last time I checked, maybe not in this thread as it isn’t really on topic but there’s nothing wrong with it, if he keeps it in relevant threads if you don’t like it just don’t interact with it lol. People acting like your forced to reply and give your opinion

Unless it is illegal for someone to comment on playcount numbers in the rules I didn’t know about

[mighty belfry]

which is legend

[near notch]

It is not, constently speaking about it add nothing to the conversation tho

[ember heath]

Yikes man can we all just stop clogging up this chat with random crap? Dick measuring contests and "the game is dying" claims with no real basis belong elsewhere, not in the thread that is our direct throughline to TC. Don't ruin this for everyone else.

[atomic plinth]

louis is a shitposter yall do not engage seriously

[cold canopy]

@boreal pebble Is it possible to make patch notes come out before the patches themselves? I'm asking because I run a Russian-speaking community and translate patches (we have a lot of people who don't speak English)

[thorny aspen]

Joining the Question, for Wiki 👆

[slow hornet]

I really need a new meta

i cant see oath anymore

💀

[twilit cloak]

^ this

[severe folio]

Pwer user: what is soulbound?

[heavy gull]

When you die, you don't lose your powers. If you respawn, you respawn with the powers that you had before you died. Wrong thread to ask this in btw

[severe folio]

Thank you!

[cold canopy]

Hopefully we'll get new patch today or tomorrow

Right?

[slow hornet]

everything

even exotics

so if you have exotics for utility and use power user let ur team know, stuff like Abyssal eye

replicator etc

[boreal ruin]

Big shoutout to the devs for listening to us on the masters+ restrictions

[ember heath]

fr. I supported the restrictions but with the data they provided showing no tangible impact I'm very happy they're recanting it for you guys.

[boreal ruin]

the big issue is that from my observation the mmr differential was quite large. So large that 2 masters players in a duo could still beat a 4 stack of gold players. I was still getting teammates who were in low bronze while I was trying to climb higher in masters.

[tawdry mason]

changes are based, really appreciate the rapid response, it was only like 3 days ago Safelocked was talking about looking at an option C. I am very optimimistic about dynamic ante

[ember heath]

I think it's very easy to get caught up in the "They're not updating fast enough!11!!!1!" headspace when the majority of us are inexperienced with game dev. But I do want to commend TC for how quickly they've been iterating and working behind the scenes. I know y'all can't tell us every little detail of what's going on at any given time, but I really do appreciate how open y'all have been so far with us.

You're sharing information when you can and it's obvious there is an effort being put forward by you guys here. It would be really easy to just not engage with us and make all of the decisions behind the scenes, but in doing what you're doing you're also helping create a community that involves not just the players of your game, but yourselves as well. I am an extremely anti-corporate/anti-company person so getting me to let my guard down in this community the way I have is a testament to the process

[heavy gull]

The description with data was important fr

[mellow bronze]

I liked the idea of solo/duo and I supported it ahead of time, thinking it would lead to better quality games. It did not sadly, as it effectively just gave legend players ankle weights - so I'm happy to see it reverted

[hot hamlet]

I’m low-key sad they reverted the changes, the changes probably didn’t work because we still have mixed ques and poor matchmaking

Guess it’s back to legend players 4 man stacking in my lobbies again 😞

[heavy gull]

Is your issue with legends or the 4 stacking?

[lusty hamlet]

4 stacking, legends is a secondary problem

[heavy gull]

Solvable by yourself

[lusty hamlet]

thats not a correct answer on a videogame with matchmaking

[heavy gull]

True, but until then that's an option

[lusty hamlet]

its fine now its the opposite, you were annoying with the revert we will be with the other part, embrace it

[heavy gull]

Sure LOL

[lusty hamlet]

and expect steamcharts screenshots, empty friendlist and the rest of mentalwarfare used

[heavy gull]

I love it when people try to make me take Ls

Ok enough of that in this thread

[heavy gull]

G

[hot hamlet]

Both, 4 stacking is not fun if I wanna chill and play the game solo when friends aren’t online and I don’t wanna beg on lfg channels to play with randoms who might be just as bad, and the legend 4 stacks are the ones who be rolling the lobbies, most master players aren’t that good at the game they aren’t the ones from my experience who are rolling lobbies killing 8/10 teams, now those 4 man stacks instead of playing as duos like the last week will be back 4 manning and wrecking havoc

[heavy gull]

Got it, i don't think theres a proper solution to this except larger playerbase so they can split the queues up then

We all know the solution but it's not happening atm lol

[twilit yacht]

Yeah, the only thing we can wait is for the new year and hopefully they do a big event and marketign campaing to boost the playerbase enough to improve ranked system

If there weren't so many crybabies with so much ego, from both sides, it would be a lot easier to do

[heavy gull]

We shouldnt disregard all of them like that, most of them genuinely are voicing concerns because we all love the game, apart from the few black sheep that literally give zero constructive suggestions

[heavy gull]

Moar money into marketing pls

[twilit yacht]

discussing about it it's fine, but for the most part is 2 sides that do not want to change their view fighting to see who's the one that bends the knee first

It's like discussing about politics, 99% of the time nothing good is gonna come out of it because people won't change their opinion and will just fight trying to change yours.

[heavy gull]

Huh? Being firm on your stance is natural though? I think majority of both sides even understand the pain points of the other

[heavy gull]

Nah bad take sorry

[twilit yacht]

I don't know what chat you were reading but both times they changed ranked system both sides were just insulting eachother, calling each other stupid for not liking, or liking the changes and not trying at all to understand eachother.

[lusty hamlet]

yeah of course, I just upped the tone now that I am on the opposite side :), I just need to calm about it a bit though I got too emotional

[heavy gull]

Kinda easy to focus on those particular ones ngl

[violet cairn]

Luckily, they also stated with the update that the higher elo matchmaking is being tightened. So if you are a lower rank, you actually might not end up with legends in your lobby as much anymore.

[severe sable]

Came across some familiar names in games. Chipsa and hotbiscuit. Havent seen them in a bit. I guess once I hit plat the game thought I could play against them.

[hot hamlet]

they said they did that before and things barely changed so im not to sure this will be a big impact

[lusty hamlet]

Oh of they tightened it to match legend and masters together then, fine I just climbed to master so my problem is exacerbated

I'm so happyy

[violet cairn]

So you don't want to fight people at your skill level? You just wanna smash newbies in lobbies? Isnt this one of the main reasons you guys were saying higher ranks should be limited queuing together?

[heavy gull]

He's baiting don't engage

[lusty hamlet]

I want to not face squads of 4, facing legends or platinums is not my main issue.

I feel as bad when facing a squad of 4 under my level as soloq and over my level, the SKILL LEVEL is not the problem, that would be a secondary issue for me.

[violet cairn]

I know you've probably explained somewhere before, but why not just find some people to play with? LFG channel isn't difficult to use and find people. I have only used LFG and found plenty of people to play with on Asia server, which already has less population than other servers and less compatibility generally because not everyone speaks English.

[hot hamlet]

I hate the lfg argument because people shouldn’t have to find people to play with to enjoy a game

What if I come home from work trying to play some games but I can’t enjoy because my friends are over the age of 20 so they aren’t on 24/7

[violet cairn]

Then.. you LFG?? I'm literally in your position. I only have 1 friend who plays casually, so I found people lol

what do you mean

Now I have new friends, problem solved

[hot hamlet]

What don’t u understand, someone shouldn’t have to find people to enjoy a game if it’s a good game. Unless Supervive is never supposed to be played you don’t have friends online your point is not it

When playing league I can comfortably que ranked and have a good experience, I can’t do the same in Supervive

[violet cairn]

I'd argue queuing solo in League and Supervive is just as frustrating. Doing individually well but getting tilted at bad teammates lmao

I can still have a good experience in both, but would prefer friends in both

[lusty hamlet]

is frustrating if you dont enjoy soloq man, that is something that you guys need to work on, empathy. You should not see other's experience as your own because I and a lot of ppl just enjor soloq more for a lot of different reasons

I do understand why do you prefer squads, make a good effort and try to understand why do we dont, and we want soloq

[violet cairn]

I have plenty of empathy. The problem isnt your desire to SoloQ. It's your desire to limit other peoples experience to squad queue because matchmaking sucks.

[lusty hamlet]

I never said this solution was perfectly fine for both parties, it was a middle ground

I still think only solution is squads/flex queue and a solo queue

this was a middleground that subjetively improved the quality of the games the soloq players were playing

before 26th game was hardly enjoyable for us, from 26th to now, we had a blast

and now its back to not be enjoyable

so yeah, understand its not that I want you to not play with your friends, I want you to play with your friends vs other yous with their friends, and leave me enjoying the game on a solo/duo enviroment

[ember heath]

I'm confused Sykii, did you read the tweet about the change being reverted? They have statistics showing that game quality remained roughly the same before and after the change. The numbers were almost identical.

I thought my game quality had improved too but those numbers don't lie, I think we were placebo'd.

Along with reverting this change they're also tightening the matchmaking for top end players so there's hope there that the stompiness goes down

[hot hamlet]

Unless they tell us exactly what data is being used to determine game quality doesn’t mean the change is indifferent

[lusty hamlet]

there are things that are not measured just by numbers, you can not measure everything by winrate or total kills of the game.

Sahri tell you, @floral yew will tell you, I will tell you, games felt way better

[heavy gull]

That's why >28yo people play single player games now LOL

[lusty hamlet]

your take to a declining playerbase is to narrow it more? weird take. Also I work since I was 18 years old

so after 18yo I would've just stopped playing I guess..

[heavy gull]

??? Bro i was just saying older people tend to generally play multiplayer games less

Due to a variety of reasons, some yall mentioned already

[ember heath]

This seems pretty cut and dry. The winning teams still averaged the same amount of kills per game. They were still stomps

[heavy gull]

???

You do not believe in stats and science?

[winged birch]

i was trying to do this discussion the whole day bro xD

[lusty hamlet]

yeah but now the winning teams could be solo/duos. Maybe that is just current meta?

because Ive had stompy games now where I was stomping, before that team stomping was always a 4stack now it was achiveable by everyone

[heavy gull]

Placebo exists btw, what's your counter argument towards the stats mentioned by the dev tweet?

[ivory plover]

But were the winning teams comprised of the same players? Could just be that the number of engagements stayed the same and other teams won them now...?

Like those stats don't make much sense in a vacuum

[lusty hamlet]

the stats do not say anything about solo/duos being on a disadvantage vs 4 stacks, the stats mean the game kept being a stomp, which is true

but before the stomp was by the same 4 stacks now the stomp was achiveable by any squad

if the devs put the changes because they thought stomps would stop, then yeah the change did not work as they thought

[atomic plinth]

yeah i agree i felt like the games had improved significantly. sad to see them revert it

[lusty hamlet]

stats do not show if the stompiness was caused by PUMPERS squad or a solo player before, you have to manually check it and subjetively analyze the games

[atomic plinth]

i also think it doesnt take into account the speed of stompy engagements -- with 4 stacks it was over within 2 seconds. i felt way less of those on both sides with the changes

[lusty hamlet]

I agree of course, the game is stompy. You drop, get lv 4, books, get lv 5 on brall/zeph/oath and go fight other teams and snowball

restricting premades wont ever fix a metagame issue

I never played brall until this because I needed to play brall to stomp games, deny whisps and keep stomping the lobbies if I wanted to win points

[ivory plover]

And the nature of the game kinda makes it so any squad that gets kills is at an advantage to get more using their level/ressource advantage as well, so honestly not surprised the numbers don't vary all that much

[lusty hamlet]

again its a metagame issue not a 4stack issue, 4stack make it worse becuase they can do it every game consistently

[ember heath]

Damned if you'd damned if you don't. Sorry TC y'all really have your work cut out for you.

Let's just wait and see how games feel and try to be unbiased about our findings over the next week+. The tightening of top end mmr should negate some of these issues y'all believe we'll face

[lusty hamlet]

again I will never complain about TC devs Ive said on 3 different sides I have nothing against them they actually have too much pressure

[ivory plover]

Yeah I'm kinda hopeful about that one, should alleviate a lot of the issues

[lusty hamlet]

my keyboardwar exists because instead of ppl agreeing with us that solo/duo players need a way to enjoy the game we are being told to use lfg/antisocial/we have no friends/we want to be carried etc

[ember heath]

Unfortunately it's kind of the nature of these big multiplayer games. Without the playerbase to support individual queue modes solo players are kind of screwed.

Maybe something like CS's open party feature would be a good addition to the game?

It let's you see parties people have set to open who are on the same server as you as well as their ranks so you can join up with folks really easily

With that I'm out, gotta start working in a few mins. Peace y'all!

[lusty hamlet]

the playerbase could be narrowed because we dont support individual solo/duo players, you will never know

[hot hamlet]

But this doesn’t say if this is split between the same 3 teams or now there’s a mixture of 20+ winning teams

Instead of Timmy and friends winning by 20+ per game it’s more spread with different teams winning

Isn’t that better?

Stats can be deceiving without the full picture

Today I had a match with Tom kick and arcane and we rolled the lobby, before it would’ve been them 2 and their other 2 pre mades rolling the lobby for the 4th time in a row

20+ kill games can also be due to higher elo players being spread in more squads, surviving and getting revived

One thing I’ve noticed recently is teams aren’t eliminated nearly as fast as before

Many games I’ve had hand been high action but when looking at teams left we still have 8 teams left because people not being able to finish squads

I think this is due to the players getting better at the game but also multiple high elo duos being in the game rather then 2 squads, making teams are more equal in skill so those legends can’t easily wipe out half the lobby of gold pre made as they peers are present in enemy teams making it harder

[lusty hamlet]

cant wait for pumpers to have 20k rp and destroying soloq players experience in the process 🔥

[hot hamlet]

Additionally Supervive is a very snow Bally game, 20+ kills for winning teams for all we know could just be the norm, if you win early fights you tend to have a big advantage and knock a lot out players, most games I win tend do be 15+ anyways, just unless I’m camp for top 3 and cheese for the win which I don’t do

My 2 cents anyways

[ember heath]

Hate to say it but I think I'm done with supervive until the NA server gets fixed. It's really frustrating because I know it's not your fault and I really love the game. But jerking around constantly on 110-140 ping for so long on a server that I had solid connection with during next fest is too much for me to enjoy the game rn.

I have submitted info in https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1313998507799220314 so I'm hoping that helps you guys out.

Just a rough situation with even rougher timing.

[vale flame]

Update on the half life analysis: broke 20,000 today.

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1312372985968988160
relevant discussion ongoing here if you want to join.

[boreal pebble]

Morning. 🙂

I’m a little sick still, but feeling better than yesterday.

Let’s see what’s in here today..

[lusty hamlet]

Sorry beforehand I was emotional after revert (?)

[boreal pebble]

Oh, glad you saw @rapid yacht’s update on the fix here! Next week. 🙏🏼

[boreal pebble]

Oh, it’s alright.

[lusty hamlet]

But yes I think current hottest topic is ppl going over different channels posting Steamcharts screenshots

[boreal pebble]

Honestly, I appreciate it when people are passionate.

[boreal pebble]

Hahah, yeah - I’ve seen some of that.

[lusty hamlet]

I guess that is better than silent leaving 😅

[boreal pebble]

100%.

Working things out together is also just more fun.

[cold canopy]

hey safelocked

[boreal pebble]

Morning!

[cold canopy]

it's 4 am for me but yeah XD

[lusty hamlet]

The magic of timezones

[boreal pebble]

An extra morning for you!

Hmm. The charts topic feels sort of..funny, in a way.

[cold canopy]

I mean we all want long life for the game

[boreal pebble]

Agree.

I think for me it’s more like -

I want people to enjoy the game, take their time exploring it.

SUPERVIVE hits you with a lot - and I know a lot of folks don’t play tutorials. (I saw the skips, in both League and SUPERVIVE.)

[lusty hamlet]

Skip tutorial -> complain about being overwhelmed loophole

[boreal pebble]

There’s also more new surprises coming, for sure. But I did want to say that.

[boreal pebble]

Haha, yeah.

[cold canopy]

some insides for us?

[boreal pebble]

But also, gamers gonna game. I’ve rarely done a tutorial myself - so I understand, too.

[boreal pebble]

Just outlined the next Fireside with @final spruce!

[lusty hamlet]

Its very hard to nail a tutorial for every kind of player as well

[boreal pebble]

For sure.

[cold canopy]

oh btw while u r here

[rugged nacelle]

Today's topic?

[boreal pebble]

Oh, yes - though, I did kind of like the day and date approach from a - players can read and experience the changes right away instead of worrying theoretically what the implications are. (saw that also a lot on League.) This use case makes sense though.

[rugged nacelle]

Could petition for Brall, Hudson, Oath, Zeph nerfs/tweaks along with fixing the server's propensity for ruining fights but it sounds like you guys are tentatively rolling out a fix for the server side of things next week?

[boreal pebble]

Maybe we can share earlier for the translations to be ready day and date?

[cold canopy]

I agree that surprises a cool, but it's not cool to not be able to understand what's in the box after u open it

[boreal pebble]

We were mainly just chatting since I’m a bit sick today.

[rugged nacelle]

Fair enough

[sharp robin]

Hi Safelocked feel better!

[boreal pebble]

Yep!

Hudson, my man..

[cold canopy]

make some tea for yourself❤️

[cold canopy]

would be great

[sharp robin]

Funny thing about hudson is I think what makes him frustrating, his bulk and laser beam, is not what makes him strong, which is his barbed wire.

[boreal pebble]

I help with patch notes, so will catch up with the crew on how to do this best. (Might DM you later.)

[sharp robin]

Also relevant: I'm currently on a 16+ minute queue for duos right now

[boreal pebble]

Morning! Thank you!!

[cold canopy]

playing on EU I never had more than 5 mins Q in squads

which is great

[sharp robin]

NA is at a less popular time rn but still this is a bit much

[boreal pebble]

Oh, interesting. I’ll just spoil the thinking we have currently about Hudson, and you can also let me know more on the other aspects.

[sharp robin]

given the average duos game doesnt go the whole 20 minutes its an indication to me that there are not 40 people on NA duos in my mmr band atm

[boreal pebble]

We’ve been talking about his mobility.

He’s supposed to control space, but he’s also so mobile he controls your space.

[sharp robin]

queue finally popped at about 20 min

[boreal pebble]

The minute our design crew framed it that way, that immediately clicked for me.

[sharp robin]

huh thats interesting. I remember the first mobility nerfs helping a lot since he had so much distance on his dash if you tried to get away he could chase you down and finish you

though in this current version of the game i dont think his mobility is as much as a problem, that might be biased since im playing jin who is one of the most mobile characters in the game

[boreal pebble]

Seems higher than I would expect too. Double-checking - what Rank are you?

[lusty hamlet]

I think given fast ttk nature of supervive, it feels worse to face him than celeste. Celeste is annoying to engage but feels fair, hudson kills you while you engage which is what feels frustrating on trying to engage him/his team

[sharp robin]

legend #20something

[boreal pebble]

Choc, that’s incredible.

[wind wave]

Celeste pays a price for what she does and that’s, in part, only having 1 dash even on a lower cooldown if she cancels it early.

Hudson pays…what, exactly?

[lusty hamlet]

LMB´s life of the player´s mouse

[boreal pebble]

We have other changes in addition, but yeah - I think mobility continues to be oppressive.

[wind wave]

Doesn’t really help me in-game sadly. Hudson remains firmly on the “simply not fun to play against even tho I can usually meme on him” list.

[boreal pebble]

On the flip side, I do sort of love how he feels very MechWarrior because of it.

[rugged nacelle]

While I don't disagree, I think he controls too much space anyone with the same range or nearly the same range as him either has more commitment / charge up mechanics on their shot or they have other tools like Shiv's constant hopping around to help deal with the spray of death.

Coupled with his ability to toggle his spin up at will once the player is any good at all and you've negated his downsides while playing to his strengths

[boreal pebble]

So that’s why I mention we probably need to do a multi-step change so he’s not just getting gutted, but he’s still him.

[boreal pebble]

100%.

[rugged nacelle]

There's a lot of ways this could be tackled, like applying the debuffs from spinning up during the actual spin up not just when they "toggle it on" by feathering the threshold or by having his range gradually increase like his accuracy does so he doesn't out-poke people who are supposed to be the best in that category of play

[boreal pebble]

Me, wanting to drop patch notes but it’s almost next week!!

[rugged nacelle]

I think the simplest solution is applying the spin up debuffs to the entire bar (maybe have it scale with % filled) so they can't just freely toggle it like they do currently removing all his weaknesses and instantly switching to max range/mobility/turn speed

[sharp robin]

agree, for the little time i played hudson i felt the most satisfying thing was trapping people with barbed wire or cutting off escapes, so as long as he still has traps he will be fun for me

[rugged nacelle]

That way he's not gutted and still feels intuitive to play while having more commitment to his damage/life steal

[severe sable]

Hey we talking about hudson

I have a hew things to say about him

Ive been gathering feedback for a few days now about him.

[rugged nacelle]

Yeah there's countless channels at this point

[cold canopy]

I hate when he prevents Celeste + Void combo

[boreal pebble]

Go for it! We already have a set of changes for next week, but also for January too. Could be helpful for step 2.

[rugged nacelle]

I think the spin up change would do a fair bit but honestly I don't think he should have 2 dashes and 3 barbed wire on short-ish CDs. It's kinda wild dude can get most of a felix ult out of his dash on the same CD as Felix's little hops xD

Similarly, his barbed wire is some of the strongest area denial in the game along with his range/sustained DPS, at the very least consider it being 1 charge + 1 charge instead of 2 charges + 1 charge

[severe sable]

Ok so I assume you are cutting his mobility down cus that was a thing that came up a lot. Most complaints have been about A: his range and consistensy (low down time) and B: his mobility

[rugged nacelle]

These changes are more drastic compared to simply putting commitment into his spin up though

[storm marsh]

Maybe something like base ms nerf would work for him? In addition to smth else

[severe sable]

ALSO I have a few ult bugs ive found with his kit and His passive has weird bugs

[wind wave]

Decently frustrating trying to zone mobile people out as Void and constantly being reminded that Hudson barbed wire would do the same job far better with considerably less interaction required.

[boreal pebble]

Crassard, you’re on fire today. Bless you.

[rugged nacelle]

I'd rather not nerf the base move speed since his spin up is a multiplier that makes him almost stationary already + having the spin up debuffs apply the entire gauge would feel ass then

[severe sable]

Here is a little ult bug

Also hudsons passive doesnt work with last stand. and neither does the ult heal

[rugged nacelle]

oof

[lusty hamlet]

So he could be more op? 🥹

[boreal pebble]

Did see the comments for sure. It’s also a mix of reading, playing, and the design crew thinking through the problem.

[severe sable]

[rugged nacelle]

tbf item/equipment interactions are bugged across the board though like Zeph refunding half his heal cost infinitely with mind blade but Myth and Elluna not getting anything from it on pretty much any of their abilities

[boreal pebble]

Watching this now..

[severe sable]

I like how the vision cone is VISUALLY there but not actually there

[sharp robin]

I remember the old hudson design where he had a big dash when not in spin-up mode and a micro dash when in spin-up mode, which i really liked, but since spin-up mode was revised idek if that could work anymore

the 2 dashes were on separate cooldowns too so it was interesting to manage

[boreal pebble]

Oh, huh.

[rugged nacelle]

I'd be kinda okay with that, if he's gonna have 2 charges make it so it's the mini/EX dash like other double dash characters

keep it simple and just use the same ground/air dash mechanic the others use since his big air dash is hover jets or w/e anyway and it'd still work thematically

If we did that though I'd want Felix's little hop to either cover more distance or get a shorter CD lol it's a bit feelsbad that everyone is faster and out ranges the little guy in most fights unless you ult in

[severe sable]

Ive gone around asking other hudson mains what they would like to be changed and ult bug fixes came up a lot. We sometimes wish we didnt have to level it

[rugged nacelle]

Hudson's ult is kind of a meme lol it executes wisps but Brall can do that, get empowered, heal, and reset it so .... Hudson's ult just feels like a silly meme by comparison

[boreal pebble]

Barbed Wire coming up is interesting. That’s one aspect I think it’d be helpful to hear how you guys would prefer it. Is it just tuning?

[severe sable]

Also most hudson players wished for more intersting lvl3's

[rugged nacelle]

remove a charge, simple and somewhat drastic, but also reduce the damage

The guy gets a tonne of damage from his main weapon he doesn't need the damage help on his wire. keeping it as a slow/ground is already stronger than every other CC in the game aside from maybe stuns just from the sheer duration/area denial of it

[storm marsh]

I don't think damage is the problem here tho? CC is

[boreal pebble]

Yeah, this is sort of what I’m getting at.

Would you guys prefer - charges down, fewer types of CC, a different shape of ability, etc.

[rugged nacelle]

The problem is it'll deal like 400 damage because you touched it and since it slows you're stuck in it racking that damage up a bit. It's already a kill condition for Hudson since it prevents you from strafing his mini gun

[severe sable]

Some people dislike how wide it is and how willy nilly hudson can throw it. Most understand why its there and think its a cool one.

Stuff Ive gathered is that some would like it to be thinner. It cuts of entrances so and even on open ground its a really fat hitbox

[cold canopy]

ok, i need to go to bed now. Please discuss Amplifier. It's a cool item in a sense that it's changes your playstyle but I don't really like the idea of using only one of your skills and being constantly worried of using something else.

[rugged nacelle]

Less charges are a minimum imo

[wind wave]

For me specifically, and this is in large part from a Void perspective, it's a thing of "basically everything I do for anti-mobility, Hudson does better with considerably less effort, generally less risk, and overall less engagement/interaction".
While I recognize that Void is not the end-all be-all anti-mobility hunter, it's just frustrating that Void has an absolutely meager 0.5s ground+slow on Q detonation (meaning hitting targets is subject to ping, reaction speed, having Q prepared at least 0.3s in advance, etc.) while Hudson is simply subject to putting his two barbed wire charges down before getting engaged on and, even if he misplaces them, he still has 2 dash charges to GTFO and attempt to fix his mistake.

I'm should also clarify that I'm not advocating for Void buffs here. It's fine that Hudson is better as an anti-mobility Hunter than Void or Celeste or anyone else, since that means he has his own niche/role/whatever, but I would argue that Hudson should still have to actually interact, have risk, etc., to achieve his desired outcome.

[boreal pebble]

Amp nerfs incoming. It’s a Christmas miracle.

[cold canopy]

nice, best devs

[lusty hamlet]

Hudson bullets could cause you stutter instead of straight up oneshotting you in a blink of an eye, he could be more of an enabler instead of a murderer

[rugged nacelle]

Yeah it's kind of a polarizing item that doesn't belong in a game like this lol. Ghost/Myth Q Spam being some of the more egregious examples depending on game condition/location but it also removes most of the risk from Shiv and is pretty much BiS for almost everyone

[boreal pebble]

Have a good night!

[severe sable]

Less charges so it feels more impactful.

I sometimes wish it interacted better with knockbacks. Like getting thrown into it could activate something like oath passive. or bishop wall stun.

[rugged nacelle]

This tbh. Hudson isn't just strong, he just has more of everything He has 2 dashes that cover more ground than pretty much anyone other than Elluna. He has 3 barbed wire which single handedly do more than most other's have in their entire kit and he has his minigun on top of that

[severe sable]

Could honestly reduce the slow to be a decaying quick slow when you walk throgh it

[boreal pebble]

Makes sense. We were talking a bit about the size of it internally.

[severe sable]

Brall mains spesifically mentioned its annoyingly fat

[rugged nacelle]

It should be large enough to shut down a choke point but not so large he can build an unassailable castle out of them lol

[severe sable]

suprisingly elluna mains didnt seem to care

[boreal pebble]

I like this comparison a lot.

[rugged nacelle]

Hudson + Oath + 3 barbed wire on the ground is like rushing D-Day man

[minor merlin]

Sorry Jess I couldn't get around making the arena visual paper 😦

[boreal pebble]

I do like that nerfing Hudson will impact Oath.

[minor merlin]

Been busy on my game and side projects

[boreal pebble]

All good! Hello!

[boreal pebble]

Also, that’s amazing!

[minor merlin]

Hello

[wind wave]

I have a lot of time to ponder Hudson while running around duos matches on autopilot, which often includes running away from a duo that includes a Hudson.

[severe sable]

Also oath players are and I quote "Tired of babysitting hudson" They think he provides the team "too much dmg to NOT babysit"

[rugged nacelle]

Oath is a whole separate issue but Oath + Hudson is basic multiplication. DMG x TNK = Carry

lol

[boreal pebble]

As an Oath player, I do appreciate a good Hudson. But uh, I’m good for a while.

Hahaha.

[storm marsh]

Any Christmas miracles regarding jin buff?

[minor merlin]

Don't push too hard btw, it's the season of illness but still 🫡

[rugged nacelle]

Yeah Jin is pretty janky but it's especially egregious looking at most of the cast next to Brall and Oath lol

[severe sable]

Btw may I ask whats the "Design direction" you guys are taking hudson? (pls say more controller I beg )

[wind wave]

My only complaint about Jin is his existence. Nothing major.

[rugged nacelle]

lol

You either live long enough to steal everyone's kills with resets or you fold like the paper tiger you are

[boreal pebble]

To @wind wave’s point, I think we’d probably want Void to excel more in the Controller space than Hudson. But we’re cooking on Hudson - will share more when it’s more concrete.

[rugged nacelle]

Also his Ult is downright not fun to play with

Enemies know immediately which one is clone thanks to minion health bar, and it doesn't even listen to half the stuff it's supposedly meant to do

[severe sable]

A little dissapointed since his character line thingy is "Overcloked point defense"

[rugged nacelle]

So it ends up being a discount flash dagger (Shiv) for 90% of the game

[severe sable]

But ill trust you

[rugged nacelle]

Honestly Jin would be better off if his ult was just Shiv's flash dagger lol

Which is sad

[boreal pebble]

Thank you! I appreciate it. We all went hard on OB, and we’re now going hard on getting December and especially January ready.

[rugged nacelle]

His ult should feel fun and impactful, not a chore to babysit or you just abandon to teleport to later

[boreal pebble]

The roadmap is already evolving from what we shared last, heh.

[boreal pebble]

I think he can still be this! But the shape just might be different.

[lusty hamlet]

Roadmap actually looked very hype , looking forward to it

[minor merlin]

I'm curious, is there any mana change coming? 👀
Clearly not a high priority considering what's on the table, but having news won't hurt anybody

[lusty hamlet]

Actually excited about new hunters

[minor merlin]

Yeah the smol hunter seems like my cup of tea as a character design

[wind wave]

Every time I look at Hudson, my mind automatically goes to Legion from Titanfall 2 and I'm like "yeah OK he controls space with a constant river of hot lead, not by instantly killing anyone that enters a rectangle that he decided was his" and somehow my mind still refuses to acknowledge that Hudson has almost-instant-kill damage output.

[boreal pebble]

I have more a fun update here too. 🙂

[minor merlin]

I got Jin for the gameplay, the smol dood for aesthetic, TC is cooking some bangers catching my attention hunter wise

[severe sable]

https://tenor.com/view/legion-legion-titanfall-titanfall-2-titanfall-audi-gif-3649048593439943901

[rugged nacelle]

Legion is a pretty good comparison tbh, better than Bastion from OW at least

[lusty hamlet]

Beemo ? 🫣

[rugged nacelle]

Bastion was reworked to not melt stuff so quickly while in turret mode + needed support and tank nearby

Hudson.. does all that by himself

[boreal pebble]

I’ve actually talked to more folks about your version of how to present mana. Found it compelling!

[wind wave]

something something ADVISE AGGRESSIVE SUSTAINTED COUNTERFIRE

[rugged nacelle]

lol

[minor merlin]

Ooooh

[severe sable]

Hudson should be like legion,

[wind wave]

Hudson is like Legion, if Legion had Northstar's mobility.

[severe sable]

And shot northstars bullets

Its like if legions Long range mode didnt spend double ammo

[boreal pebble]

Stop, I’m already dead 💀

[rugged nacelle]

Hudson's thing should be sustained DPS but right now his DPS is so high and his sustain is so high he does more damage than most of the cast even the bursty ones aside from Shiv with her passive built up for Joule's dash ig. The time it takes for Joule to build her dash up is like 5x the time it takes for Hudson to just left click someone

He should be sustained and sustain himself not also out damage the entire cast while face tanking lol

[boreal pebble]

Hahaha.

[rugged nacelle]

Honestly yea and barbed wire is way better than the little wire traps

[boreal pebble]

I can’t wait for people to hear some VO.

[severe sable]

We should add northstar into supervive

[wind wave]

Hudson should probably also not be able to sustain constant firing for...forever. There should probably be some drawback/limitation/etc. to just nonstop holding M1. Doesn't make much of a difference in open areas, but gives him theoretical room for counterplay in more enclosed areas where Hudson's decided-upon rectangle might very well be one of the only ways to even get to him.

[rugged nacelle]

Are the new hunters being released for Christmas or Jan?

[boreal pebble]

Jan!

And then on forward.

[rugged nacelle]

the over heat idea was tried and universally hated. Having the spin up debuffs apply the entire time he's spinning up is already a decent start. That, and reducing his base damage (and maybe have his range gradually increase like his accuracy does currently) and he'll stop out-poking the poke characters. I'd rather see his range just 100% of the time be his spin up range tbh but people might think that's too drastic a nerf

[lusty hamlet]

Is there any idea of how would unlock work? I have patron pack which I think will unlock them on release, but will new players have to reach a new "hunter unlock" to get them? Or some kind of special unlock to evade Smurf accounts to play the newest hunter (as it happens on valorant)

[severe sable]

Id rather have the range stay but have the weapon have WAY more spread, and the spread to tighten up as you fire

[minor merlin]

One day I hope we have Hunter as insane as this, but at least we get smol dood

[hot hamlet]

Quick TDLR someone?

[minor merlin]

Hudson gaming

[wind wave]

the over heat idea was tried and universally hated.
Yup, but that won't stop me for advocating for some equivalent kind of limitation so long as he exists in his current form.
I'll happily advocate for other changes as well at the same time, though.

[hot hamlet]

Nerf that big boi to the ground 🙏🏾

[lusty hamlet]

Today is a small talk as Jess is a bit sick so no broad topic covered

[severe sable]

Hudson gaming

[boreal pebble]

Hahaha. Hudson gaming.

[rugged nacelle]

Looks kinda like some Maypul evolution /s

[boreal pebble]

I’m tweeting Hudson gaming right before these nerfs.

[minor merlin]

HAHA

[severe sable]

Btw jess can we have "Sexy santa Hudson" skin

[rugged nacelle]

Tbh though I want an unhinged nobushi archetype. I like archers and glaive users in games idk

I'm looking forward to the new character with rocket partners like Maki from Fire Force though

Martial Artist character when /s

[boreal pebble]

I’ve gotten Santa Hudson, but not SEXY Santa Hudson.

[lusty hamlet]

My bets are santa Hudson and elf zeph

[boreal pebble]

Look, if the people want it…

[hot hamlet]

In Kk honestly though Hudson isn’t too OP but frustrating to play again, if they should’ve around his power I think he’ll be fine, like his damage being more ramping so the first few shots don’t just chunk you instead it goes from low to high, so he’s still good at just holding a angle but can’t just sneeze and take half my hp

[lusty hamlet]

Is KDA Gragas all over again

[boreal pebble]

Hahahaha.

[boreal pebble]

Ooo, yes.

[severe sable]

https://tenor.com/view/freak-freaky-cat-level-infinity-gif-15287917168381984815

Im just bold like that

[minor merlin]

Cursed

[rugged nacelle]

That's just it. He's OP but not "more OP" than others the main problem is he's just too damn frustrating to even want to interact with especially when grouped with the others in the "OP Caste"

[boreal pebble]

Yep. That’s why changing the shape some will be useful in Jan.

[hot hamlet]

Please for the winter skins have the effects be winter themed, so if it was Zeph his lmb looking like he’s throwing snowballs 🙏🏾 feels like some skins are missing the oomf which makes me wanna get them

[minor merlin]

Snow Day Bard is the best winter themed skin in LoL, y'all can pull this

There's no hot chocolate emoji..

[boreal pebble]

Asking for a friend..if we had a summer skin line, who’s at the top of the list? Same with next winter.

[flat lantern]

Hudson

[severe sable]

Hudson

[hot hamlet]

Indeed , like me dropping lvl 1 on a Hudson and him 1 shorting me instantly isn’t fun, idc if the ttk is the same but I’d rather take 20,30,50,100 damage then 50,50,50,50 ( poor example but you get the idea)

[severe sable]

In a slingshot bikini. Bright green preferably

[minor merlin]

HAHAHA

[severe sable]

Also pool floaties on arms

[minor merlin]

Not a fan of summer skins so I dunno who to voice, I'll say Hudson

Hudson gaming

[severe sable]

Hudson Gaming

[hot hamlet]

Pool party myth please with her using those long swimming floaty pole things as her bow (noodles I think they’re called?)

[boreal pebble]

Somehow, I should have expected this.

lol

[flat lantern]

Also oath

[wintry tiger]

Hiya

[severe sable]

Hello

[lusty hamlet]

Brall with a swimsuit and dark glasses would work wonders, and then yeah pool party skins all over the place with Felix being the best selling

[boreal pebble]

Morning!

[hot hamlet]

Shiv using a water gun (seems obvious)

Brall using a foam sword wearing a snorkel as a helmet

[minor merlin]

I know, I want summer "Smol Dood", and what looks like his train platforms are pool buoy toys I dunno how you say that

[boreal pebble]

Brall with sunglasses…yes.

[boreal pebble]

Omg

[flat lantern]

Hudson with just a fire hose

[boreal pebble]

Actually. Wait, Shiv could be pretty cute.

[flat lantern]

When he uses hover wings he sits in a big inflatable ring?

[minor merlin]

Yes

[boreal pebble]

Now I just want this as a Power.

[rugged nacelle]

https://www.reddit.com/r/SipsTea/comments/1h8laov/how_many_fish_can_a_duck_eat_in_90_second/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button how it feels to play hudson lmfao

[wintry tiger]

I can think of one small little guy who would look great with a pool party skin

I think you know who I want safelocked haha

[minor merlin]

Event themed temporary powers

[hot hamlet]

Seems to be were talking about skins is there maybe an idea to make default chromas? Kinda like fighting games where they just recolour the base skin in a few ways? I assume that wouldn’t be the hardest to develop but I could be wrong but could be nice maybe to throw into champ mastery? So certain levels you unlock different colour schemes

[boreal pebble]

Why is this terrifying to watch??

[lusty hamlet]

Oh we are getting snowballs probably 🙄

[severe sable]

Gluttonous beast

[boreal pebble]

Spoilers??

[flat lantern]

What if they made oath a very serious businessman who has a very large glass wall

[boreal pebble]

Hahaha.

[lusty hamlet]

For legal reasons I must say I don't have any insider information

[boreal pebble]

I love this.

[minor merlin]

Brall with a monado? That's a given

[boreal pebble]

We have some of these! Planning to make more. The ones we do are more involved though, for sure.

[rugged nacelle]

Because any other animals it'd be a war crime lol imagine sitting in the sparkly remains of your fellow man in a dish while everyone you've ever known disappears into the mist and there's just this giant face devouring everyone

[severe sable]

I want pink hudson

[hot hamlet]

Some of these planned? Or some in game already? I already know we have skim chromas but I’m talking about for the base skins specifically

[rugged nacelle]

Basically Attack on Titans xD

[lusty hamlet]

There are base skin chromas already, check myth

[hot hamlet]

Can u quickly grab a sc? Not on pc

Never knew this though

[minor merlin]

Imma afk a bit 👋

[lusty hamlet]

Not on PC rn but if I remember correctly it was myth

[hot hamlet]

Guess great minds think alike tc should hire me 🤷🏾‍♂️

[boreal pebble]

Bye Nitpy!

[hot hamlet]

Really do hope hunters journey gets more depth soon, feels quite unimportant right now with it not really showing your truly “good with that character”

[boreal pebble]

This was what I was feeling. Thank you, lol

[rugged nacelle]

Also a lot of the name quests are insanity or don't happen organically at all

[hot hamlet]

Is there some room to talk about hype squad? Why can we see the kills and wins of everyone in the lobby except them 💀

[severe sable]

Can we talk how being the hype squad guarantees you go 10th?

[rugged nacelle]

What even determines hype squad

[lusty hamlet]

I miss hype squad having a number

[boreal pebble]

Are there Hunters you have specific skill checks you’re looking for?

[flat lantern]

If would be nice if oaths Shield didn't shut down so much so easily

(Joule dash for example)

[boreal pebble]

I’m also getting a bit dizzy, so I might need to stop in ten. Sorry about that all!

[boreal pebble]

Ahh, I was referring to Hunter Mastery missions. But noted!

[rugged nacelle]

Blocking movement is one thing, blocking Line of Sight is broken as is the ability to ult, attack, heal, and do literally everything through it so bully to whoever you hit with your hammer even once as you pin them during stun and just 100-0 them with no counter play lol

Almost nobody can consistently confirm 100-0 kill of their own stun it usually needs the team to focus them

[hot hamlet]

I play shiv and joule right now but I think someone else said the quest are either far too easy or far to unique to get. Additionally what you get doesn’t really feel that good. Getting a joule emote isn’t really something which I can use to put fear into my enemies unless I hit them with a “oh hi” before I shit on them (which I do, regularly 🙂 )

[severe sable]

What if the LOS only counted oaths own hitbox as the blocker?

[flat lantern]

I think oaths Shield is very squishy realistically, but I would argue most movement abilities should at least merit a parry to shut down

[hot hamlet]

Hype squad right now just feels really goofy

Feels like the lottery on who gets a bounty on there head

[wintry tiger]

..yo I just got an entire rant deleted by automod lol

[boreal pebble]

Gotcha. Talk to me about rewards - what’s on your dream list?

I know you mentioned a variant. Down to hear others too.

[ember heath]

While we're talking about skins I wanted to share my love for all things "Joke Skins"

KDA Gragas is amazing, Definitely not Blitzcrank is fantastic.

I'd love skins in those lights

[boreal pebble]

Yesss.

[severe sable]

Slingshot bikini hudson is your answer

[boreal pebble]

Lmao PLEASE

That one’s gonna get a Hudson gaming tweet too

[wintry tiger]

I'll just tl;dr the rant then
My friends who drift away from the game feel like theres no reason to come back
Hunters journey works up until about level 11 where you get a good pace of hunter unlocks to keep the game exciting, but after that point hunter unlocks are too slow, and the other unlocks in the battle pass are very boring. There are like 3-4 moderately exciting things throughout, and even they are mostly ~level 10-25. No one feels any incentive to log in to get progress in their battle pass it feels.
Ranked as retention works for some players but not all, and my friends don't care about ranked (especially in a game with a declining playerbase), so theres just no reason for them to log on really.

[rugged nacelle]

I'd definitely like a less corporate skin for Shiv lol

[wind wave]

Casual Friday Shiv

[ember heath]

Void Void (his model is just textureless and fully black)

This one might be a bit too much to actually be in the game lol

[storm marsh]

Has anyone suggested deranking barrier yet? So you won't derank instantly if you have 10 points in diamond 4 for example, but rather lose these 10 points

[mortal raft]

Hot dog slinger Celeste

[boreal pebble]

Outside of Hunters, what were the couple of other things that were exciting?

[ember heath]

Ghost Ghost (he has a sheet over him with eye hole cutouts)

[ember heath]

Slapping people with hot dogs would he an instant buy from me

[mortal raft]

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO UNDERSTANDS

[hot hamlet]

Yea variants are my number one, would love maybe attachable cosmetics? Not sure how that would work in this game if at all but how valorant has gun buddies maybe something like that? Even if possible may kill effects although I assume those would be reserved for skins or even unlocking new finishing animations, idea wise I’m not sure as a lot of ideas could be reserved for paid feature but the mastery is hard to flex. For example the level 5 emote just doesn’t look cool, doesn’t give me the same vibe when I flash my shiny mastery in league as a example

[mortal raft]

Her wall can be a hotdog bun

[severe sable]

barbeque master hudson and he has an apron on that says "Kiss the cook"

[ember heath]

Now the real question: Just the weiners? Or are these fully loaded hogies we're tossing around?

[boreal pebble]

Somehow, I feel like hot dog Celeste gets me in trouble…

[severe sable]

BBQ dad hudson. His ult could be a chain of sausages

[flat lantern]

Gingerbread man oath?

[wintry tiger]

I really feel like level 50 of the battle pass needs to be like.. phoenix shrike
and somewhere in level like 30-40 needs to be like moth glider / broomstick
I don't understand why refer a friend has not just a skin but 2 variants of that skin too, but the core progression of the game doesn't get any skins
This progression system is similar to valorant - at the end of that battle pass you get a knife skin (i think those are the most exciting skins in the game?)
The battle pass is pretty long, especially for newer players, and theres just nothing that makes people excited to get quests done or anything
Also @ quests (the dailies and weeklies) i feel like its really not obvious when you complete one, maybe there should be more fanfare there to point out that doing quests is a good way to get xp?

[boreal pebble]

Rgr, thank you!!

[storm marsh]

I believe dota has a system where you can change different parts of your skin? Maybe something like this

[hot hamlet]

Why are we still forced to unlock characters right away? Is that genuinely how you guys want it to be? It’s crazy annoying

[hot hamlet]

Even something basic like being lvl 10 with shiv I can change the colour of my gun

[rugged nacelle]

That's rare and I think it's one of the only games to do that but it is cool. I kinda doubt these guys have the resources for that though

[mortal raft]

Honestly I imagined just the hotdog but whole hoagies sounds funny

[heady hearth]

honestly a better approach would be to give something like a ticket and then you unlock them in the character selection itself

[ember heath]

Bishop Bishop (Dressed up like the chess piece)

[mortal raft]

A little Christmas Easter egg where Celeste ult animation turns her into a snowman

[hot hamlet]

Just anything what we have for now, currency or whatever, I don’t wanna unlock characters when I don’t know if I real want them

[wintry tiger]

Oh also we no longer get tc coins / vp for the battle pass? That would be exciting to have throughout too

[flat lantern]

I've had trouble getting my friends into the game with how steep the learning curve still is - there's so much to keep track of in the battle Royale mode that I've frankly forgotten how much isn't intrinsically known

[sharp robin]

Honestly though i think character skins become so much more appealing with vfx altered for their attacks. Gimme Hotdog vendor Hudson who shoots hotdogs and has a little hotdog stand table attached to his belly

[rugged nacelle]

You get a bunch of unlocks for free, far more than there are characters in the game. I don't mind it tbh as a way to "close your difficulty" and have it scale organically. That being said, having them all unlocked from the start would be nice but as long as they don't monetize unlocking characters like League I'll be ok

[boreal pebble]

I’m probably tapped out today all - think the scrolling is getting to me.

[wintry tiger]

Maybe it would be more exciting if the game did what most other battle pass games do - have a premium battlepass which costs idk.. 1k TC, but the battle pass itself gives you idk 2k TC, so you can buy the next battlepass and even potentially a skin or some emotes or something outside of the battlepass

[mortal raft]

There can be a whole hotdog themed skin line!

[rugged nacelle]

Please no..

[boreal pebble]

But definitely appreciate the ideas and cosmetics thoughts!

[ember heath]

Street Food skin line. Each character represents a different kind of commonly seen street food

[storm marsh]

Have a great day!

[atomic plinth]

I think I read somewhere that they planned on doing this

[hot hamlet]

Not sure what you mean, I just want time to think about who I wanna unlock instead of 10 seconds before my next game pops

[rugged nacelle]

Oooh ok that's fair I thought you didn't want the unlocking method at all

[flat lantern]

I wish arena had exp rewards too...

That's the main game mode I play

[boreal pebble]

Have a good one, all. Heard on more progression beats - I want them too, @wintry tiger . A lot of January work goes into this - I’m excited.

[rugged nacelle]

Arena is honestly more fun 90% of the time

[flat lantern]

I'm frankly too lazy to macro is the real issue

[ember heath]

What about an "Arena" skin line? Characters reimagined in a gladiatorial style

[flat lantern]

I enjoy the "midgame" team fights

[hardy meadow]

Sorry you are sick on your birthday safelocked :c

[boreal pebble]

What are the chances??

[minor merlin]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1297244188970057850/1307727845287792650/image.png?ex=6755b9f6&is=67546876&hm=9a335c1aa22df586dac61175d595ac7da6d95287ebf648d861a86cf444bbb8ed&

[hardy meadow]

Fate is a fickle thing

[thorn oasis]

Live!
Health to you! ☕

[hardy meadow]

Important question though, what type of pizza should I get?

[hot hamlet]

Gas

[minor merlin]

Something without tomato

[hardy meadow]

This guy cookin

[minor merlin]

No I'm just tomato intolerant

[hardy meadow]

Also if we are talkin skins, I do hope we eventually get Trash panda felix, where he is a racoon and has a trashcan on his back

[minor merlin]

Cya Jess, rest well the team and you, stay strong 💪

[plain hedge]

Feel better Jess! I just woke up after going bed super late last night cause I've been feeling like shit this whole week 😭. There something going around for suree

[thorn oasis]

I'd swap mains instantly.

[storm marsh]

I hope we will eventually get a jin skin

[mortal raft]

I know one of my friends is really wanting this skin

[thorn oasis]

Jinvestor.
I gotta see dude in a suit. Or at least a venture capitalist vest lmao

[high condor]

i think hudson's dash should be less of that Wings powerup and more of like, a gragas belly bump, both in utility and distance

the fact he can go SO far with it is nuts

and yeah the barbed wire nerf would be fine. i think he presents enough of a zoning threat with his gun

[sharp robin]

I was spreading the good word of Jinvestor earlier today lmao

[merry tendon]

One of my friends sent me this message. As the player with the most playtime on this character at all iterations with the highest degree of success this is just not the case.

Gunner's problem (and his problem has always been this, it was just much harder to run into in previous iterations) is that he is a bullet hose that cannot be beat when he is hosing. In previous iterations where he had less power he STILL could be an S+ hero if he played for the correct situations. These situations were much harder to access due to the various limitations placed on his kit which made him feel terrible.

The changes made most recently made it much easier to access these S+ power windows with much more room for error and made him less dependent on movement powers to access the S+ power windows. They also made his matchup into characters that out ranged him playable. While these changes were power positive, they didn't increase the maximum height of his power, they just made it possible for him to make more mistakes reaching it, lowering the skill floor. Gunner has always had a high skill floor because the character played heavily around positioning. If you positioned well, you would auto win. If you positioned poorly, you would auto lose.

Overall, this character needs a complete redesign to make his kit function for both the player and the opponent. He needs to have his minigun move away from his LMB to a timed window as a basic ability or his ultimate (cooldown, ammo, heat) with the option for him to reduce this window at great risk (stand still, vulnerable) and the restrictions removed (turn rate, move speed slow). He needs to have a different LMB. He needs to have his barbed wire looked at very closely (this tool is both incredibly powerful and incredible weak. Way too polarizing for varied skill levels. EG: Skilled players can get insane value out of this tool while lower skilled players get zero value)

Gunner right now is a problem because his window of power doesn't close. The counter play is entirely focused around positional outplays and the number of players that can reliably implement this is probably still in under 50.

If the changes made to the character focus on adjusting his power through number adjustments without addressing the severe flaws in his kit's design, they will ultimately fail. You might see less people complain about him but that will also be because no one is playing him.

I have said this about the character since April and this is the last time I will say it. Take it or leave it. But I think it would be important to consider that I do understand this character the most out of anyone that currently plays Supervive most likely. Please heavily rework the character. He needs it to function in the game.

And for the record- Gunner isn't even the most ridiculous character. He's probably below four others. The problem being that engaging in the counter play is so much harder since you likely made a mistake ten seconds previous and are unable to connect your mistake to the reason you died.

@digital bridge That is the gunner feedback I said I would send you and never did.

[hot hamlet]

Spot on, when gunner turns on he doesn’t turn off, doesn’t feel like there’s much interaction except from those positional plays like u said

[rugged nacelle]

Felix's dash is like most character's ground dash it doesn't cover any distance really. Can we get it to have separate cooldowns for each charge. Not like Myth, more like Jin and Elluna since he needs to get in to deal damage moreso than most / he's kind of a melee character

[green vault]

What are the four others?

[rugged nacelle]

Hudson Oath Zeph is the meta + flex slot but Brall is at least the third for being ridiculous

[vale pumice]

PLEASE

[small verge]

Quality post. Big vouch.

[minor merlin]

No Luke is not here anymore 😦

[hot hamlet]

Left with a banger

[minor merlin]

Sad

[vale flame]

Things only happen when I am sleeping

[flat lantern]

Have you tried not sleeping?

[vale flame]

Well can’t afford that

Maybe next week then

[merry tendon]

Zeph, oath (the combat design in this game is really bad and characters that have strong defensive options are very powerful due to characters normally only having one path to lethal so when a character can invalidate that path while still having access to their own they are very good)
Brall (yeah this character just has no built in counter play and auto wins every single 1v1. I asked the dev who designed him what the counterplay was and he shared that the character has a predictable range. I don't have the time or the energy to explain why that's not counterplay. Just pray the character misses or otherwise you lose)
Bishop ( very strong character, struggles a bit because she was made to feel worse to play. She can still do some absolutely insane things)
Ghost ( currently held back only by zeph and oath making his poke useless. If those characters are ever adjusted (shield, heal) then he will immediately be the best character)

@green vault

[merry tendon]

Yeah- the recent changes have really shown me that the devs are not aligned with my understanding of the game and are very focused on newer players experiences and statistics. As such, I think it will be 6 months to a year before the game actually begins to improve if it ever does. It makes me very frustrated to have such a strong understanding of the game and for nothing to be done to address what I see as clear problems despite consistently raising them. Pwyff did say in general that they were very focused on the new player experience this year so I was willing to step back and coast and wait for the launch and see how they adjusted after.

[green vault]

I agree with oath, and maybe zeph but while brall can feel frustrating to play against as the devs mentioned in the recent patch notes, I don't think he's very op. Ghost and bishop are in a very good place rn, ghost is even a little on the weaker side

[merry tendon]

I will check out the game in 6 months to a year and see how it feels to play.

That's cool. I am not looking for your agreement and simply stating my understanding of the game based on my experience. Your experience may differ from mine, but you will catch up to me eventually

[green vault]

Neither am I, just to be clear, I'm just sharing my personal expirance and opinion (coming mostly from arena) and inviting a discussion

[minor merlin]

I find it sad because I really enjoy your input Luke

[merry tendon]

Also- I came back because someone sent me the patch notes. I do have one final Hudson thing to add. If you are going to make number changes like this to the character, please disable him and remove him from the selectable characters. He only will function as bait for new players who get excited about heavy style characters and be disappointed that they are unable to play him. There is no point in offering players a character that is this weak

[minor merlin]

I know you make fun of me but even back in Fangs, I really enjoyed our discussions

[merry tendon]

I make fun of everyone and myself

😎

[minor merlin]

Based

[lethal tusk]

I keep forgetting these happen

ggs missed another one

[rugged nacelle]

He's not even weak lol

But he's still polarizing

[lusty hamlet]

Just throwing this here, a side-effect of over focusing on squads players is that those players tend to leave if one of his friends leave

[azure rapids]

@boreal pebble who ever came up with Joules Dragon skin and animations double their pay. unironically if that was her default skin i would have for sure been a one trick joule instead of a one trick celeste

that shit is sick

[atomic plinth]

real

[meager jungle]

is it because the joule ult now looks like celeste ult? /j

Lawyers, I'm kidding, I'm kidding

don't do it

[azure rapids]

nope its just like. the most swag shit. and it speaks to my soul

[meager jungle]

It does look pretty cool

[frigid sorrel]

you know what is so funny, my first time seeing it was Dillon/Improving using it in the DUOS tourney and I actually just look baffled on what is going on LMAO

I had 0 clue as to what I was witnessing

because 2 teams frog jumped at the same time too

so my brain was just like fried or something LMAO

[meager jungle]

lmao

[boreal pebble]

Morning!

Will start up the new thread in a sec.

I have a brainstorm request today, so might make that the focus of today.

🙂 Should be fun.

[full veldt]

Hai safelocked

Looking forward to it c:

[minor merlin]

Heyo

Sorry I wanted to get the doc done today (I have most ideas), but finishing Metaphir Refantazio took my entire day... and I'm still not done 💀

[rugged nacelle]

Afternoon~

[minor merlin]

Evening-

[boreal pebble]

All good! Take your time. Also, great game.

[minor merlin]

It's really really good

[boreal pebble]

Kind of miss Baton Pass. But still enjoying it, too.

[minor merlin]

90h in, right before the very final dungeon at the very least

[boreal pebble]

Ohh, nice.

[minor merlin]

It's easily a 9/10, only hiccups I have is with how the class system was handled and how -(4th character) ||Heismay|| was done so poorly in that regard

[lusty hamlet]

Morning Jess! Hope you are better this week

[minor merlin]

Yeah I hope so too, that you recovered fully

[twilit cloak]

Hellooo Jess !

[ember heath]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1317559515495010426