#An idea for either a shrike revamp(which I would prefer) or some sort of new heros lmb

159 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

viral sky
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So my idea was that for shrike it'd change up like normal then it'd shoot 2 shots in quick recision. The second shot would end up being easier to hit cus itd have nothing like aim lock allowing you to just flick.

Only the first shot would end up giving the mark. If you managed to hit someone with both 2 shots from the same round the mark would go off. The first shot would do more damage than the second because it'd be harder to hit more than likely cus the same aim lock thing people complaining about rn would be on it. But the second ome would have nothing like that allowing you to just flick to hit people but it would do less damage it wouldn't apply the mark(cus if the shot is easier to hit I feel like applying the mark would be a little op) I'd say have there be around a 300 ms delay between the shots, this might be bettwr shorter tbh.

I do kind if feel like tc wouldn't do this cus I feel like it goes against what they want to do with shrike but it would probably help with some issues people having with shrike rn. Idk if it'd make her anymore viable in pro matches but it'd probably help.

jagged bone
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so does the 2nd shot only detonate the mark?

viral sky
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I was thinking theu both would. Cus the first shot is basically meant to just be what we currently have. We'll the second shot just adds some. The damage would probably need to be nerfed but it should make actually dealing damage more feasible. And the first would do like 10% more damage or smth

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One thing I'm unsure of is how this would effect newer players. It'd help top players I'm pretty sure but idk about noobs

tame grove
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In my honest opinion this would rail her into the ground even more, is she supposed to still two shot here?

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This would mess with the tempo of hitting your first lmb and then lmb(charge) > shift > lmb (shoot)

viral sky
viral sky
# tame grove This would mess with the tempo of hitting your first lmb and then lmb(charge) > ...

Ah yes, you can't possibly cause the combos of a character to change. Ima say this as nicely as possible, just cus this would change some combos doesn't make it bad. This would allow for new combos that people would need to figure out. And that would probably still be a good combo it'd just be used a little differently. And also this was simply an idea. Cus so many people complaining about stuff and I thought something like this could maybe help fix stuff they complaining about, and I do honestly think it could work pretty well.

zenith fern
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just a psa for anyone that reads through this thread: this guy doesn’t play shrike

tame grove
tame grove
# viral sky Ah yes, you can't possibly cause the combos of a character to change. Ima say th...

You're right that is true. But in this case I believe this would not help her. She suffers from other issues that if "fixed" would make her wildly unbalanced for lower elo which is not in anyone's best interest.

I'm not familiar with this "aim lock" issue, your aim isn't locked ever when firing.

I also never suggested you can't have an opinion or make suggestions. But it's a discussion post so I thought I'd add my ideas as well. No hard feelings, but I've never thought m1 to be her issues when it comes to competitive play.

It's taken me some time to swallow this pill but unless meta shifts drastically. She will continue to become more and more obsolete as time continues and better and more team centric characters are made

viral sky
tame grove
viral sky
# tame grove You're right that is true. But in this case I believe this would not help her. S...

The aim lock thing is what people in #shrike say. A shrike main I spoke to said he didn't even know about it and I can't really find anything about it othwr than what they say so I do feel like it isn't a thong but they've been complaining about it. And like I personally think she's fine but othwr people seem to disagree. And I just felt like something like this could maybe help if done correctly.

tame grove
jagged bone
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this is aimlock stuff

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when ur cursor is not able to move that last inch towards the direction u want it to, its what allows ppl to step shrikes shots.

tame grove
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That's not a thing

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This player is just not aiming well

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This gif is also a joke to people saying shrike is op

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They're poking fun at the fact that if you just learn to WASD her shots you just never die to her

jagged bone
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u can wasd her shots because of that

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u cant flick last milisecond onto a target

tame grove
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That's just her shot travel time and the fact that this is a projectile

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You could say that about any character

jagged bone
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ofc but shes the only one shooting 1 bullet every 3 seconds lol

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dodging 1 bullet of anyone else doesnt rly matter

tame grove
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I mean that's a different critique

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Saying there's aimlock isn't true tho

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But if yall wanna discus shot time that's fair enough

jagged bone
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u dont feel that lock when ur about to shoot?

tame grove
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If you make her shots travel faster or the time in between each is lower she would be absolutely gross at lower levels of play

tame grove
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The only "lock" is when your shot actually goes off

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Might just be an optical illusion

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I feel that with huntress

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But it's not aimlock

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Aim lock imo would be you get locked in position before the shot goes off

jagged bone
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locked in position in terms of aim not movement

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thats why ppl can wasd shrike shots and thats why we tell new ppl to wasd it. there is a delay when her shot is going to go off where she cant fully track anymore, it goes where it was last pointed at, and ppl can simply walk out of its way.

viral sky
jagged bone
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no. u cannot fully track ppl with shrike while they are moving is what im saying.

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if u are hitting someone that is moving u are preaiming ahead of them which is fine but its just a big issue in her skill expression in higher elo lobbies

viral sky
viral sky
jagged bone
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also are u in high elo lobbies? i was under the assumption that u are newer to the game

viral sky
lean fern
# jagged bone u dont feel that lock when ur about to shoot?

honestly, not really i think that aspect is fine. the tempo is just unique. if you play on relatively high ping i can see where you might be coming from. a buff to projectile speed would be reasonable imo, but it seems like youre asking for hitscan? you should be using abilities to force enemies into predictable positions. thats why her rmb is so important so it's likely you're not using it enough

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might be a controversial take but if you havent been building rampage or mindblade, you arent using your abilities enough. unfortunately rampage just got reworked in a way that makes it completely unfit for shrike: if you miss a single auto you lose all stacks (you shoot 2 shots in 3.4 seconds btw not 1 shot in 3 seconds). it's likely that mindblade will be her new best item, at least imo, but if you disagree i would be tempted to say you just dont spam rmb enough

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i genuinely believe shrikes design makes a lot of sense and requires little change. at most she needs adjustments to shot charge time and projectile speed MAYBE the removal of her laser. for the record i see the appeal for a "trigger release", but i think it would slow her down when good opportunities arise.

jagged bone
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u literally cannot trace someones movement, they can walk out of the area u are currently locked into shooting, and travel speed is a factor yea.

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me personally i would prefer laser removal or maybe a slight range increase so she out ranges myth better idk

lean fern
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i dont think we should be able to trace movement, not sure if youre implying we should be able to or just stating we cant.

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i can see the argument for a range increase too, especially given myth buffs.

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since we're on the topic of the laser, there are ways to hide it or conceal your intentions effectively

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in the gif above it's clear that player has their cursor over pyn and anion, wouldve been better if they held their cursor closer to shrike and were more sporadic with adjustments. not to mention they didnt use rmb, but it couldve been on CD. if her shots were being dodged while using those techniques i think that clip could serve as a more concrete example of her weaknesses. of course it's not really meant to and it's more of a joke but nonetheless that shrike's mechs were awful, at least in that moment.

fervent shale
jagged bone
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yea i dont think she needs to trace movement im just stating that it is a thing, ppl are saying it isnt lol.

i also dont need help w hitting shots on her, im not saying this stuff from a state of frustration just saying that is her weakness. anyone who says to WASD her shots is acknowledging that too. my opinion on the topic is she needs these counters because she would be really busted without it, the "2 tap OP" would be legit if she didnt have the counters she has. there is something holding her back in higher elo tho so idk if she can use a range buff to win poke wars easier or something not sure.

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also yea that shrike should be leading her shots more, but that is part of her issue still, the better players get, the easier shrike becomes to play against. this is the case w every hunter but its a lot worse for shrike players than any other hunter.

lean fern
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gotcha

seems we're on the same page here, completely agree she needs these limitations. i have roughly two months in top lobbies, so i dont think i've had enough engagements to confidently say what's missing. i will say this though, thinking back to some fights with paz, phenom and lemur, then again with emperor and blop when i died it was due to positioning mistakes, or rather i wasnt able to reposition effectively. in the majority of cases i was able to deal with phenom/blop engage but the follow up from paz/lemur/emperor was too much. even with dash refresh from knock terrain was too restrictive i.e. all open angles would lead to me hitting terrain and losing momentum with no way to build it up quickly again. i have a tendency to play for self peel, which could be the core issue but regardless that's where i felt some frustration.

jagged bone
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yea i think thats the main issue she suffers with, i think other hunters can do what she does better with less risk or less reliance on chaining shots. good players wont really let ppl chain shots that much so she starts to fall off, but when she does play well and other ppl play worse she feels good.

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i think high movement meta and other decent ranged hunters makes her weak when we consider part of her balance is having her dmg countered by WASD (which i think is good because if we cant dodge her shots then she would be really crazy lol).

tame grove
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Show me a clearer video of this

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Because it's never happened to me

lean fern
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i think lock is a poor choice of words

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i think they're saying there is a point at which you cant adjust your shot, i.e. you dont get to control when the shot fires so youre restriced to fire exactly 1.7 seconds after m1

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youre "locked" into firing wherever your cursor is facing and cant alter that no matter how much you want or need to. thats my impression at least

tame grove
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There is no locking of aim

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Or inability to change the direction

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If people are upset about the projectile movement speed or the time it takes to wind up shots that's one thing

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But there is legitimately no such thing as aim lock

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Or inability to adjust

viral sky
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I mean they all say it's only part if her attack before you're able to move. So there isn't a decent chance there is a small aim lock at some point either et the end to prevent flicking(which would be a fair thing to have) or at the beginning of the attack for some reason

lean fern
ruby garden
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for those who say it has aimlock, to feel better in using it - idk

tame grove
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because I don't experience "Aim lock"

ruby garden
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i don't either

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but those people may be used to the "awp" style of snipers, where if u press the mouse button you hit what u aim at (effectively hitscan)

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shrike's shot has a noticeable delay before the bullet actually comes out and hits the target - after you press the LMB button

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both when the actual bullet leaves the rifle but also the actual windup of the shot

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me saying it could be an acceleration issue, refers to the bullet leaving the chamber and when it actually hits the opponent, could be slightly sped up - and see how ppl like that instead, may make em feel like there is no aim lock

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without reworking how shrike lmb works in its entirety

tame grove
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Ima be honest, this is just a skill issue with shrikes. The delay is something you can learn and how to play with it increases the skill ceiling

viral sky
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I do honestly agree. And then when you say that some guy will just say "but you can simply wasd her lmb" it it's honestly a little annoying how much people will say that if you even say shrike isn't trash

jagged bone
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this is what im saying by aimlock. idk what else to call it. sticking etc. u cant flick last milisecond. this is why the crosshair jolts afterwards instead of smoothly going with it.

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happens on shrike LMB too i just dont have clips of it

viral sky
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I mean it's a good thing tbh. You can complain about it but thwy do need it and shrike lmb especially needs it.

jagged bone
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i am not complaining about it!

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i am stating that there is some sort of lock on ur cursor on some abilities and shrikes LMB is one of them thats all lol. idc that much abt it she is fun and i think she is a decent character and could use some tweaking to her kit potentially to make her better in higher elo. a range buff would be the best i can think of bc we need to be able to WASD her shots (and we can bc of this locking that im talking abt + travel speed)

viral sky
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I think she's fine for top elo. Theu just gotta play her differently. What i mean by that is specifically with shrike, you can't play her the same way ad you can in othwr elis and if she was juat played differently I feel like she could really work well

zenith fern
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^ not high elo + doesn’t play shrike

viral sky
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  • neither of those mattwr and are simply excuses you guys use to ignore whatever I think
jagged bone
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u should mention WHY u think shes fine in high elo instead of just stating shes fine in high elo

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i dont think she is ass she just gets gapped by other hunters and its mainly in high elo

zenith fern
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shes good in high elo just hit ur shots

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source: my experience

jagged bone
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u dont even play shrike 😥

zenith fern
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kappa btw playing her right now

jagged bone
zenith fern
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who ?XD

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that champ is noob

viral sky
# zenith fern shes good in high elo just hit ur shots

No literally just get good. Learn a way to play her that works in high elo. Rather than just complaining they're trash. Sure othwr characters probably bring more overall and are bettwr in high elo but that don't make shrike trash

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My opinion in shrike in top elo is prob not gonna change but when I get home ima play her and actually see how she feels

zenith fern
viral sky
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Everyone compares her to myth. Myth is a dps that can control areas while shrike is a(kinda bad) dps that gives vision. Just like find a new and better way to play her I stead of always just saying she's bad.

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But also because actually being able to do damage and control an area will prob forever be better than some mediocre damage and some vision so myth will prob always be beyter but doesn't make shrike bad

zenith fern
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Just like find a new and better way to play her 🗣️ 🔥 💯

tame grove
# viral sky Everyone compares her to myth. Myth is a dps that can control areas while shrike...

There's only so many ways you can play a character. While I do think that the majority of the time, issues simply stem from skill. In high elo most people are on relatively equal footing. Good players will struggle, exceptional players will barely break even. Other characters have too much movement, zoning potential, and other team oriented abilities that surpass the benefits shrike has from dealing high damage. Even if you are perfect at aiming. Let's say you theoretically never miss. If people are also that good on their character they will always catch up. Playing around terrain completely nullifies her effectiveness, and she has quite a predictable pattern for shooting that you can time so that you get free engages on her if she is even slightly out of position forcing her to use her own dash and or bird bomb. Even if you don't kill shrike. You generally don't want to stay less than 3/4 health on herat any given moment if you can help it. While that's true for most characters, it's very true for her since one successful dive on her would kill her at that health. So even on the first dive. You time things right and deal half her hp bar. You've effectively taken her out of the fight for a few seconds buying a lot of time for your teammates to focus other, bigger, threats

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Simply put she's out matched by too many other characters.

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Take myth for example

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2 shifts so she is self sufficient. Massive zoning with rain of arrows, 2 abilities to boop people away if they get close to you, and good sustainable poke throughout an entire fight.

There's no reason to pick one character that is completely reliant on her teammates but doesn't actually provide team benefits than one that does all of the above

zenith fern
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kill in 2 hits

viral sky
# tame grove There's only so many ways you can play a character. While I do think that the ma...

I ain't reading that but I prob know what you basically said. I feel like people should just really take advantage of every little thing shrike can do. Tbh in top level the only real reason I can see someone picking shrike over myth other than if they're a shrike main is for the vision she gives cus most other things kinda suck. But I still will stand by that shrike is not a bad character regardless of what people say. And like not every character needs to be viable in every elo

kind cloud
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bro said "I ain't reading that" and continued to respond

viral sky
lean fern
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you guys do know that pyn is like #1 shrike global right? maybe #2 if you count hotbiscuit

viral sky
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Uh why would I know that? But okay, doesn't really change any of my opinions nor what I'm saying

zenith fern
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dont say that

lean fern
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:p

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humble humble ;)

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but if not who? genuinely my op

zenith fern
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jk its me

viral sky
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yall the only issue I see with shrike is that another character replaces her. she's not even that bad tbh just another character replaces her

zenith fern
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you dont play shrike btw

viral sky
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dumb reason for 1 and for 2 I literally have. and the only big issue is that what most people would want a shrike for which is damage, myth just replaces her. the only thing shrike has is vision but most people don't really need that and the vision is small anyways

jagged bone
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well that sucks bro lol. if multiple things replace her in high elo, she should see some adjusting to make her stand out in her own way!

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i dont think shes ass but just alright

viral sky
jagged bone
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low elo shrike is better

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ppl dont know how to counter her makes her really strong

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but either way in low elo the balance doesnt matter as much bc ppl will die to the weakest characters in the game at times by playing bad. i specify in high elo bc thats where balance matters the most

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easy example is brall. in high elo he needs his movement. in low elo ppl still probably die to a brall that doesnt know how to use his movement, so the balance there is mainly for higher elo.

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also myth and ghost can replace her for poke bots. then outside of that its what role are u giving up for a shrike? best comp rn is oath and zeph almost every time, then they have to slot in shrike as a flex slot and that is replacing some really strong characters

viral sky
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also I might start maining myth she's actually fun as hell.

jagged bone
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yep

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plus u dont have to crutch on OP 2 shot shrike!!

viral sky
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why tf are people complaining about shrike and not oath? oath feels way too fucking strong. and also I feel like shrike 2 shotting is a lil much, not because it's strong but because low elo exist

jagged bone
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noobz

viral sky
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also about this shrike lmb suggestion I made. I do actually think doing something like it would be awesome and make it so playing her instead of myth is fair and viable

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cus they do really need to do something so that playing shrike over myth is fair

jagged bone
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i think jus a tiny range buff would be a good start to mess w stuff

lean fern
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i think she’s fine tbh

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feels great this patch

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apart from not having rampage 😡

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vulture i mean this in the most respectful way possible, i dont think you’ve played enough shrike to offer objectively accurate criticism

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myth has a completely different pace and style

viral sky
jagged bone
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well range buff means shes out trading ppl better

jagged bone
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havent tried her since last 2 patches ago lol

lean fern
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yeah exactly, meta shift