#Desync/Stutter/Fps Drop when dashing

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

halcyon briar
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Someone made a feedback post: #1306118455161782354 message

So here's the bug report.
A number of people encountered this. Seems to happen most often when character speed has a big change. Seems to happen over slowing terrain or when going up or down slight elevations? Not sure. But anyway, I've got a truckload of clips with all my graphs on.
If anyone else has specific video of this phenomenon from the recent playtest(s), please also include. Bonus points if you also play tests with all your graphs on.
Clips feature both BIG OBVIOUS examples and subtle, less obvious examples.

Edit for pondering the cause: I wonder if it's something about how predictive the netcode is trying to be coupled with one of the settings. I have the "use the cursor as a helper for deciding where to dash." setting on. Maybe sometimes it gets briefly confused on which direction to send us based on keyboard keys held and mouse position?

image.png
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More to come!

north trellis
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Can confirm that i experienced the same thing last playtest with Shiv and in all the past playtests with Elluna.

halcyon briar
mystic violet
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this problem makes shiv rly unenjoyable

halcyon briar
lofty basin
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i thought it was lag, happened to me on felix :0

halcyon briar
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I wonder if it's something about how predictive the netcode is trying to be coupled with one of the settings. I have the "use the cursor as a helper for deciding where to dash." setting on. Maybe sometimes it gets briefly confused on which direction to send us based on keyboard keys held and mouse position?

frosty grotto
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Thank you for openning a bug report. Don't really have any clips of it but this happens to me for some playtests now on multiple champions including Oath, Myth and Ghost.

Thought its just a fps cap problem like in league, but i always forgot to check it myself.

halcyon briar
halcyon briar
north trellis
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How do we get the devs to notice this?

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I feel like this bug should get a fix before OB.

halcyon briar
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We've done the correct thing by bug reporting it. TCbug

north trellis
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Yeah, I always thought it was due to my >80ms ping but i am happy that i am not the only one having this issue

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Really annoying when you're inside a fight.

sturdy kindle
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Sweet bug report hopefulyl gets dev attention 👍

shut cove
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we noticed!

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we check these forums every day

halcyon briar
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These are those clips I promised bubo like a month ago lmao

warped linden
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Thanks for the posts! Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like all of these clips are from the Steam Next Fest playtest, right?

We've been working hard to make movement feel as good as we can. This was a top priority for us before OB, so please follow up and let me know how it's feeling when OB hits!

Generally what we refer to these as, they are called "Movement Corrections". We let your client "predict" where you will move in order to make movement feel more smooth and fluid, but the server needs to confirm where you actually went (both to avoid cheating and to make it fair for your opponents). As a result, sometimes when your client doesn't agree with the Server about where your position is, we are forced to "correct" your position, so your character will snap to a new location.

When you have these cases where you dash forward, snap backwards, and then snap forward again, it's most likely that the dash/impulse that you are using is not being properly predicted, so your client says "I'm going over here", tries to predict where it's going, the server (for just a frame or so) says "no, you aren't there", so the client takes a correction back for a single frame, then the server catches up and says "oh wait, no you're right you are over there", so the client pops back again.

Please grab more clips like this after you play on the Open Beta build! Hopefully it will be a lot smoother. We are committed to fixing these issues where they are possible... BUT - now it's time for the CAVEAT!

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the caveat is that we can only predict your movement so much - your client can never be perfectly in-sync with the server. This is just the reality of a client<->server relationship and online gaming in general. If, for example, you start a very fast dash, such as Elluna's air dash, and at the same time an enemy Kingpin slams you to the ground with his stun, on your client you might "predict" that you dash away safely, but on his client, he caught you in the slam. If the timing is such that the Kingpin caught you according to the server, then you'll have a big movement correction. In that case... there's honestly not a ton we can do to resolve that.

This is SUPERVIVE's equivalent of the classic shooter problem where you think you've just made it behind a wall and then your enemy "shoots you behind the wall" - in reality, that player shot you while you were in the open, but in the milliseconds on your client where you got into cover, you were "already dead".

Please still report issues and we will always take a look and try to improve it, but I do want to be clear with expectations that we won't ever be able to eliminate all of these

halcyon briar
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Dang, I was right! I feel cool.

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For sure bubo and Koalifier. \o/

warped linden
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also - HUGE props to you for having the stats graphs active, it makes this WAY easier to diagnose and understand

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if you get sick of having them all on, the ones that are the most helpful are: FPS, Game Thread, RTT, incoming/outgoing Packet Loss, and server FPS

halcyon briar
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It seems like it was something new that started in the october next fest compared to previous tests, but yeah looking forward to the Open Beta changes and improvements!

halcyon briar
warped linden
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yeah it's kind of a 2 steps forward 1 step back kind of thing - as we've added prediction to the game, movement baseline just feels better - great!!

But by adding prediction, we introduce the problem of movement corrections. Before, your movement was just... "laggier", but it was more "accurate", so you wouldn't have these corrections

halcyon briar
warped linden
tepid latch
# halcyon briar For sure, bubo asked for 'em a long time ago on a completely separate thing and ...

I remember having this issue... basically since I started playing, so it makes sense that it is a problem that comes from how the game is built from its very foundation (with regard to server/client interactions). I always thought it was just a matter of my ping being an issue, so it is interesting to hear more.

Here's hoping that it is improved, and that it is resolved smoothly (or as much as possible)

mystic violet
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I dont have clips sadly but its was the same problem

north trellis
# warped linden the caveat is that we can only predict your movement so much - your client can n...

So, i am thinking, since the server corrects the position and tells the client to adjust, isn't it possible to smooth the snapping client side? Let's say i dash forward and the client predicts that i will land in position A but the server says no you're actually in position B, the client will then have to correct me into position B, would it be possible to smooth that snapping by adding a smooth transition instead of having it instantly snap?

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Mmh, at the same time, if it isn't instantaneous, it will make your next moves land in the wrong positions which is not ideal, especially in fights.

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Tricky situation.

warped linden
warped linden
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so if you're ever playing a different online PvP game and you see similar behavior, it's because... it's probably the same!

halcyon briar
warped linden
warped linden
# halcyon briar

Either the same as the first one, or maybe the client thought you clipped the edge of the terrain? 7560_Cypher_Think

halcyon briar
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Yeah the one in Immotek looks like it might have been game thinking needing to mantle or bonking into the cliff.

shut cove
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i love you for your numerous specific vods

indigo pagoda
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Bumping this thread as it has made Shiv basically unplayable, almost every dash. Will try and get clips to post.

halcyon briar
north trellis
sacred bough
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Yeah been playing a lot of shiv and it feels like at least 50% of the dashes have this stutter

halcyon briar
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@sacred bough @north trellis y';all gotta turn your graphs on from your settings and contribute to the video clips so that they can get it knocked out.
It's about the client trying to predict where you are, but for some reason it has to snap us.

north trellis
warped linden
warped linden
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I think that wind rings are not predicted right now, not sure if they could be 7560_Cypher_Think

halcyon briar
halcyon briar
sacred bough
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Anyone find a fix on this? Makes playing shiv pretty unbearable

frosty grotto
warped linden
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@halcyon briar we went through a bunch of your clips and found new repro steps for movement corrections, so thank you very much for sharing all of these! We will work on getting them fixed saluteblob

halcyon briar
warped linden
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I think if you have any distinct examples from these ones, that could still be helpful, but I wouldn't burn too much time on it

halcyon briar
jade sorrel
warped linden
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thank you for mentioning it - we are working on a fix but unfortunately it does take a little while to do the coding and testing on these

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we don't want to make it worse by pushing stuff out too fast

agile dove
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It sometimes happens on Jin Q2 while dashing, I haven't noticed this until I picked up Jin I thought it was just my ping until I found this thread

tepid latch
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I recently was doing some aiming practice with Shiv in practice range, and I faced a lot of this problem, so I'm going to post some clips, hopefully they help y'all with the fix

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I can send more if y'all want. I just don't want to spam this with a dozen different variations of the same thing

warped linden
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we aware of the issues affecting Shiv worse than others and working on it saluteblob

agile dove
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This does happen on Jin as well, I notice it mostly when dashing during Q2, making it difficult to see/asses my dash to land Q2

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We appreciate you :')

ionic wind
agile dove
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It's super frustrating but I have my hopes it'll be fixed in January's patch

modern cloak
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I am playing on 31 ping (EU) and Joule dash stutters/desyncs more often than it ever should.
I have a solid PC (no running background applications while playing) and a solid 600/600 internet connection (through ethernet).
Sometimes the matches are perfectly fine, and some matches where it occurs constantly. Sometimes randomly, sometimes not. It is frustrating.
Additionally, I have noticed that it rarely occurs when I dash through no one. In most instances, it occurs when dashing through an enemy or in a teamfight.

ionic wind
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Yeah, I can relate to that some matches are okay throughout the whole duration, while in others I feel lag multiple times

timber solar
# ionic wind I think I have the perfect example of what you're talking about

You need to cap your framerate. If you are recording you should make sure both caps are the same. IE don't film in 60fps and play in 120fps. Definitely can't film in 120fps at 60 fps cap in game. I can see your frames spike to 220+ during your shift, while before it steady stayed at 140-145. When you have sudden fps ramp up on top of streaming / recording the gameplay you are essentially allowing your gpu free range to spike fps as more pixels come into frame, and a lot of the great gpus with no limiters will straight cook themselves especially with high ram and many cores to allocate. Especially with UE5 (unreal engine) most GPU recognize it as a strong new platform and will give it resources on resources if no limiters. Many new UE5 games struggle with how they do shadowing, polygoning, TAA, etc.

timber solar
# tepid latch

Can you cap your framerate at say 60 or 80 fps and run this same video back?

timber solar
ionic wind
timber solar
modern cloak
timber solar
modern cloak
timber solar
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240 seems high. Have you tried doing 120?

modern cloak
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240 is my monitor's refresh rate. Utilizing less is not the type of optimal solution for an issue that only occurs during dashing in the game. I have not had issues in the past during the playtests from what I can recall, and the game not being optimized for 240 FPS is a flaw on the game's end.
However, I am able to test less than 240 FPS just for the sake of testing.

timber solar
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yes for the sake of testing pls.

ionic wind
jolly acorn
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fixed or not?

jolly acorn
jolly acorn
ionic wind
zealous helm
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Have same pb here, can't be competitive at high level cause of this bug since 1 year now...

tawny forum
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same to me

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since 2-3 weeks

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my ping is also +15ms higher and i really dont think that its cause of my internet

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@ionic wind did it fix for u ?

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that bug

ionic wind
# tawny forum <@175520274429640705> did it fix for u ?

Nope, I just quit playing hunters that require consistent lmb aim (like shiv or bishop) and switched to combo characters (like void, beebo or KP). Its much easier to hit a combo on a once CCed enemy than whatever a shiv vs shiv duel is (at least on my ping)
And when it comes to being caught in a chaos fight with knockbacks booping you in all directions every 0.1 sec, I just remove my hands from the keyboard xD
Maybe the reason why Battlerite doesnt have this issue isnt netcode or 6 players per lobby, but the amount of knockbacks in that game isnt that much... Meanwhile Supervive used to have Brall with a micro-knockback on each of his LMBs

crimson oracle
crimson oracle
zealous helm
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Well i found the EASY solution for my own problem after having tried jitter tests, my wifi (6) isnt that good. I put e 6A ethernet cable = no more jitters.