September 3-Day and Veteran Test Megathread

[potent gust]

Next week I'm yapping

[turbid vector]

Permanent objectives are something i'd like to see experimented with

Like 'this is probably going to happene every game, at this spot.. are you ready for it?'

[calm basin]

I am reserving my yapp for talk about Elluna and Hudson. I have some strong opinions on them

[potent gust]

If not every game, every controlled environment game

[odd zinc]

lvl 3s / lvl up core changes thoughts

• lvls 1-2 often feel rly bad and stats i want dont get increased so im forced to throw 2 or even 3 points in a skill, makes my skill order feel much more "chosen" for me. before changes could still be that way (freeze wall -10s cd) and her other abilities could be (+dmg, less cd, etc) and still have impactful lvl 3s (ffox 25% cdr on lvl 3)
• many lvl 3s feel very bad (all of assaults skillups feel bad, including 1-2)
• lvl 3 diversity is good, being able to identify that diversity if a lvl 3 char has one option or another is important esp if they greatly change options that char has.

[potent gust]

Thus far mana imo is the biggest pitfall of the game haha

[slow tartan]

on the 3rd bullet, what are you saying? How should you be able to identify that they have one option or another? Like different visuals when they use the upgraded ability? (you aren't saying you should know before they use it right?)

[turbid vector]

I do think mana is an issue that's just like

"nobody wants to care about mana.

Everyone builds manablade."

and that is the summary

[potent gust]

Mana has to be. Mana isn't inserted to be cared about. Default option is mana blade to get rid of it.
Is how I'd rephrase it

[rose hound]

I want mana to matter more. i worry about the implications that could have with the state of the items. Like you said, everyone build mana blade tadaaaaaa

[latent gorge]

I have a question that I am curious to just hear your thoughts on. For those level 2 upgrades although they for most part are just stat changes, do you think that is a bad thing? I don't the middle one needs to be that big "wow" moment.

I will say lvl 3's should def be more unique to a playstyle change then just stats.

[grim falcon]

Something you just glimpse over the hunter/his heal bar and you know which lvl3 he have taken and by that, what he can do

[odd zinc]

if something is going to greatly change how a character plays then having info u know upon seeing a character is relevant. say a char gets an extra dash. that is massively relevant info which u dont know until u see them push it.

similar to powers, u know if an enemy has a power that gives them another option.

as to how to do this idk.

[slow tartan]

ok i understand now. and maybe something like gugusea's suggestion could solve that

[potent gust]

Be careful not to overload the hud tho, but ye

[wide quartz]

Another reason why there’s a tight range in how meaningful an ability upgrade should be.

[wide quartz]

Yep.

[grim falcon]

Ofc, but there are some possibilities I believe

[turbid vector]

I think a point kind of is

'its worth it'

[latent gorge]

I like the idea of lvl 3's being that sweet spot of just enough to slightly change how a character plays, but not enough to where it would actually be crucial to play around knowing people's lvl3

[potent gust]

It only happens in late game so there's an argument about it too

[turbid vector]

like sure you get a HUD element, but depending on how you do it may not even fill that much, and you'd get a lot more joy out of playing the game that way (having more unique abilities, weapons, etc.)

[slow tartan]

I mean I think seeing a Hunter is lv 6 and knowing they can only have 1 of 3 upgrades and I have to be rdy to play around any of them is ok for me but maybe that isn't actually ok, idk. we are talking about if all the ability upgrades did something spicy, so i don't know how that would actually feel

[turbid vector]

Possibly, a way you could do this is just 'remember' what someone had the last time you saw them, then put it on your capslock overview

Like how in league you have to tab to see weapons - i know this is a br so it's way worse and maybe wouldn't work but

[potent gust]

Also obscuring it hud wise could lead to it being more interesting encounter wise. If the upgrades are designed well, it'd take a learning curve to learn the possibilites, and add on to the skill ceiling of the game

[odd zinc]

it feels bad to level up an ability just for the sake of getting to lvl 3 instead of getting any benefit from it.

i think in the first pt when this change was done to abilities my skill order on ghost was dash nade nade laser ult - - - ult -. i skipped every other skill upgrade because they did nothing. yep. my character had 5/9 skillups used by lvl 9, and 4/8 by lvl 8.

previously the system allowed for both the newer form and older form. maybe someone cares more about the damage portion. or the cdr portion. and sometimes u level up an ability 3x and u dont get cdr, the only stat u would care about for that button.

[calm basin]

I kinda like how in league cliking someone shows their items and stats in the top left corner. You could propably do something with that?

[potent gust]

Needs good UI placement (the game is more frenetic than LoL so checking top left might be difficult), but could also work

[latent gorge]

Yeah that is totally valid to feel that way. Like "oh that is it" for this level up. Totally understand that and how it could ruin someone's connection with leveling up throughout the game ;-;.

For me it isn't as big so it doesn't bother me but I understand how it could for sure

[rose hound]

I feel this with upgrading an item past blue tier. Feels like nothing

[latent gorge]

This in supervive IMMEDIATELY made me think like in WoW spamming tab/creating macros to cast certain spells on other people because you needed it to happen as quick as possible and that specific ability on that person 😭.

[wide quartz]

I saw a lot of health bar thoughts in the last few days…I’m curious where people here would put this element. 🙂

[turbid vector]

I think its one of the most useful ones because you choose to show it

[potent gust]

Does somebody have a clean ui screenshot at hand featuring everything thus far?

[turbid vector]

and then it shows you info you can't get anywhere else

It's incredibly nice knowing what weapons your allies are building, how much gold your allies + you have

it's not the prettiest? I suppose, but it really doesn't need to be, it gives information and it does so pretty damn well

oh wait i misread the question

Well if it's on your health bar/attached to it, the weapons pip would be the same but just indicate which weapon - I actually think that's more important than what tier the weapon is

[wide quartz]

Phew! I thought maybe I had worded something strangely.

[turbid vector]

So the easy way to do it could be like (Red icon with a 1 on it) for Vampblade lvl 1
and then you wouldn't need to give it more space, but it would still inform you of everything you needed to know

[odd zinc]

(40 sec ms paint challenge)

[turbid vector]

Ability levels are a lot harder and i'm not sure how you'd do those but, yea, maybe what zkken just made

lovely ms paint creation

I'd probably just make one of them show

like the one you made lvl 3

and then give each ability type an icon

[odd zinc]

that works until there is lvl 10 teams with 2 lvl 3 upgrades

with this u dont have to focus as much on the shape but rather the slot. or u can focus on the shape. w/e is more recognizeable for the player

[turbid vector]

then just put two

like

I suppose

The icons could pretty easily be related to the ability type;
Like lshift is dash, E is.. Utility or whatever else you wanna call it, rmb is like a secondary attack

[latent gorge]

That is A LOT of information to pick up on on top of actually playing the game. I wonder if newer players would be overwhelmed just looking at the health bar

Def wouldn't be against trying it though and seeing what other's think, I just will say it is A LOT.

[grim falcon]

Too noisy

You show 2 icons that are irrelevant

[wide quartz]

And! There’s also Powers and Souls.

[grim falcon]

• contrast can be hard to see for some

[turbid vector]

Souls

honestly just need to colour the HP bar

like how they were

like fortress soul makes it glow with the... door? yknow

that is very easy to see, and very nice

[calm basin]

You honestly could have like a toggelable stat screen you open with a button. Kinda like you would be scanning your suroundings

[odd zinc]

yea idk its just smth i made quickly for what would be visible for me as someone who mentioned it. im not a ui person.

[turbid vector]

^^
yea this would be on capslock

so you just have enemy stuff there when you see them

[wide quartz]

I love that you tried the exercise. It’s not easy.

[turbid vector]

Either way it's just a problem we'd like to see experimented with rather than you guys trying to design abilities around them not being visible

because they end up being less interesting that way

by a lot

kind of

[wide quartz]

Hahah. Well, we did have some difference in opinion there.

But I understand your point of view.

[turbid vector]

yea

[calm basin]

You could have it be very space taking and info heavy and then itd be a skill to disect info from a glance. Comparison id make would be leqgues f1-f5 spam in pro play. Checking lanestates and such

[turbid vector]

yea i mean

capslock is tab from league

essentially

[latent gorge]

But IS it being less interesting bad? I understand that the whole "why level abilities if they don't make a huge difference anyways" and I can understand it feeling bad from a fantasy perspective but with so many variables already in game, is having this one not as massive okay?

Like in league for example, the upgrades themselves for abilities are LITERALLY just stats. But the complexity of the game is on the map and in runes/items.

[wide quartz]

Lrucin, you’ve hit the core tension. I love it.

[turbid vector]

In my opinion, the main difference between league and supervive, and what draws me to supervive more (and i think this might hold true for a lot of players) - Is the ability to come back into the game, to have your skill matter. A fight isn't simply decided by 'This guy has 10 kills, got fed by some other guy, and now we lose because they can stat check us by pressing lmb'

Like stat's and stat checks are the exact opposite thing of what attracts me to this game- So if the only thing you grow by is stats then.. That'll just feel bad. Especially if these stats are like the ones in the new items, where you have either have them and you're winning, or you don't.

[potent gust]

League is, by reducing it a lot, a numbers game. How can my numbers go higher to crush the other teams numbers, and then seize advantage. Supervive is way more open ended, and the advantage stage resides way more into decisions aka how you use tools at your disposals, instead of using said tools to make numbers go higher (the main number in League are golds)

[latent gorge]

You can't have too many variables, otherwise you will just overwhelm anyone/make it frustrating to try and track said variables. Some players will feel one way about certain changes and what should be big and not, it just is finding what sticks and what doesn't

[turbid vector]

Yup, this pretty much

Supervive gives so much more agency to their player to make the right choices, to do what they want, to win the game.

Where as league its kind of just, the same goal you have to do, the same way you do it, almost always.

[latent gorge]

I appreciate the call out : D. I love being a nerd 😎

Also it is actually a capital i not an L but thank you for the call out reguardless ❤️

[marble granite]

https://tenor.com/view/patrick-star-minor-s-spongebob-spongebob-meme-spongebob-squarepants-gif-10940848928744248792

[potent gust]

You can win the game by third partying and being clever, despite being waaay too much behind. In League, you moreso win by just seizing advantage and tipping the scale of who has more actual resources (numbers)

[wide quartz]

Oop! Got it. Irucin!

[turbid vector]

yea

[latent gorge]

I've known @marble granite 13+ years damn near, please DO NOT mind him EVER ^_^

[marble granite]

i don't know this man

[turbid vector]

wait really?

wow

[wide quartz]

13!

[turbid vector]

Anyway, levels being unique is important because they're part of what shapes this game - It's a choice you have to make

[latent gorge]

We met on eleague +10 years ago, looking for our next adventure as we sit in retirement aram que ^_^

[marble granite]

if you see me bully him dw, he bullies me in vive

[wide quartz]

Hahaha

[turbid vector]

That's wholesome, especially considering safelocked was a dev on league

[marble granite]

I agree with this a lot

[wide quartz]

We’re all growing up together.

[turbid vector]

yea i'm too young to know what those days were like

[wide quartz]

Thank goodness.

[turbid vector]

I was 4 when league came out ;-;

[turbid vector]

o.o

whats that supposed to mean xD

[marble granite]

HEY old league had its charm

[latent gorge]

Naw bring back 6 sunfire capes on evelynn

[wide quartz]

Someone’s gotta be the next generation!

[turbid vector]

oh fair

[potent gust]

I started League in mid 2016. Seeing the work Jess and the others pulled off back then put me even more in the rails of becoming a designer, always looking forward what they all pull off. LoL was not the game making me want to be a designer to be clear, but ye it helped a great deed and taught me a lot how to deconstruct designs

[marble granite]

it's fun to recognize so many names at TC after following league for so long lmfao

[potent gust]

Seeing the videos where dev talks was really inspiring

[wide quartz]

Man. Y’all giving me feels.

Thanks all.

[marble granite]

bellisimoh, safelocked, koalifier, new001, xenogenic, pwyff just to name a few

[latent gorge]

Back to this though, 100% right. League in a sense has MANY snowball features w/o many ways to get back in. It is what has brought me over as well.

That is why I feel lvl 3 being just a slight change in something is good enough with other variables (powers, items, etc) but that is just my perspective on it. I understand the other side and thin kit is very valid

[turbid vector]

Thank you though~
You made these games we love <3

Yea i think at some point

skillshots aren't enough to justify having just stats

on level ups

[latent gorge]

When I saw New001 and you were BOTH working at TC. I knew we were in for absolute cinema

[potent gust]

I mean, seeing the 3 Js moving the TC (I mean Joe is a founder...), I knew it was going to be peak

[turbid vector]

Especially in a higher MMR - If everyone plays really well then.. won't the team with higher stats just win?

[wide quartz]

Well, so I play it out this way. Who would have gotten those stats first? The better team?

[grim falcon]

The team lucky enough to have snowball from lower skill level team

[potent gust]

That's actually my main fear from what I gather about recent items and lvl 3s

[grim falcon]

And you don't have control over it

[turbid vector]

This unfortunatly

Sometimes a team just gets objectives

is it skill that the bosses spawn near them? kinda

[potent gust]

Supervive shouldn't become a number game, it should strive for player expression and emergent strategies

[turbid vector]

yes that's 100% the biggest thing with supervive

[wide quartz]

Yeah. Could be due to good drop optimization. Could be good optimal pathing.

[turbid vector]

Like obviously a lead should matter

[marble granite]

Recent items have had this pretty rough especially

[turbid vector]

it's not that it shouldn't

but i'd rather have it be them using that lead in a unique way

[potent gust]

If you manage to win despite being factually behind, doesn't that mean you used the tools at your advantage more than your enemies, despite them having more tools?

[marble granite]

Nitpicky you haven't played in the past few playtests at all because of your hand right?

[turbid vector]

like 'oh, void has lvl 3 E and he used it to zone us from gliding' (whatever)

yknow?

than a 'ah their abilies just do more dmg than us

[wide quartz]

Yeah, I think that’s where this conversation has been leading me more.

[potent gust]

Yep, I only go from gathered feedback and all my time from previous playtests

[turbid vector]

yup ^^

it's why a soul like fortress soul is cool

[wide quartz]

Leads should matter. You should be rewarded for your positioning. Your macro, your PVP as well.

[turbid vector]

yeah 100%

I think they are mostly rewarded in powers

rn

Like you get kills, you get a pvp key

[marble granite]

Fortress Soul is so fun

[wide quartz]

There’s just some amount of - hey, I want that extra wrinkle in my upgrades.

[turbid vector]

you get an exotic power

[potent gust]

Leads should matter, as you have more tools, but the nuance should be that the one using their tools at their disposal better, should win still

[latent gorge]

THIS was the closest I got to playing fortnite

[turbid vector]

lol

[wide quartz]

100%.

[marble granite]

"alright i'm playing minecraft" ahh comms

[potent gust]

HAHA

[turbid vector]

It's always funny building walls, I remember a showmatch with double racoon, stealing 20+ walls

and casters being baffled as to how we got so many

[marble granite]

just so you know: we lost this in the funniest way possible

enemies filled the entire area with nukes

[turbid vector]

That was fun

[latent gorge]

Allow players to be creative, unqiue, and silly and they will find endless ways to do cool things you may have not even known was possible

[turbid vector]

^^^^

[potent gust]

They used their tools better 😎

[turbid vector]

that is the fundemental thing I enjoy about supervive

[marble granite]

not even mad on that loss it was incredibly fun, and that's something i really appreciate

[latent gorge]

We lost that match in the picture believe it or not but do you think we care about that? We won at heart

[wide quartz]

Yesss.

[potent gust]

I'm not one that have fun by winning. I have fun by expressing myself and trying stuff out. Supervive is literally just that, and I can win by creativity and expression on top

[marble granite]

i love the open ended-ness of it all yeah

[wide quartz]

Oh, but to be clear - there are definitely many people who have fun winning, also. Lol

[potent gust]

Something LoL allows less and less, tbf, and one of the reason I left playing LoL 2 years ago

[wide quartz]

But I definitely understand.

[odd zinc]

idk how far off topic we are at this point but there's something ive been really wanting to talk about on this. its only a couple bullet points or w/e. can always wait till future discussions in this thread tho

[latent gorge]

Also just to provide perspective: This is coming from someone that SWEATS games. I have hit masters a couple times in league and once in flex que so it isn't like I just play casually or for fun. In truth I LOVE competing.

But man to be able to do both is truly magic and I feel that way with Supervive and used to feel that way with league

[wide quartz]

We have drifted! But I accept.

[potent gust]

Oh ye ye, I meant that Supervive allows both without sacrificing on creativity and expression

[wide quartz]

It’s the combo. Big agree.

[calm basin]

I am one of those people who optimizes the hell out of a game information sponges but I have literally 0 interest in being competitive because it sucks fun out of the game for me. That is why I like suboptimal strats because they are challenging and fun to make work. One reason I enjoy supervive so much

[wide quartz]

Me: peering behind the curtain to see if someone will dare say the word casual

[potent gust]

I played Bard AD crit top and AP Varus mid as an answer to Ardent Meta. I loved doing that, but if I do that now, it'd be bad and I'd be flamed and reported

[wide quartz]

That always made me so sad.

I love when people try new shit.

[calm basin]

Like for league. I know legitimately know every rune, champ item and ability and their rough cds and play styles. But I consider myself as hyper casual. One reason I hate playing league rn is because my aram mmr is so high I play only against sweats.

[rose hound]

3 dodged arams in a row now :')

[calm basin]

Ew aram dodger

[marble granite]

Yeah that kind of attitude made me lean away from queuing alone in League. I really don't like the antagonistic atmosphere for trying anything that deviates from the norm.

[rose hound]

its not meeee

4 now ;-;

[potent gust]

Top Tank Jhin with frozen mallet, AD crit top Bard rush statikk ie, Varus AP, Thresh AP mid, Pyke jungle, Yorick lethality jungle, Teemo jungle, Kled courage of the colossus supp, Poppy same supp... Ye, most of those things, stripped away

[wide quartz]

Sheeeesh

[marble granite]

I got 200k on blitz playing blitz/AP shaco bot with @latent gorge and bush cheesing with stacked boxes

until box stacking was removed, genuinely one of the worst fun bot lanes

[odd zinc]

• getting kills at min ~3 are really overtuned as they grant you ultimates. people still go for kills at other times in the game as killing people is fun and how u win.
• for any other br game (apex/fortnite) it would be like getting a ~1400 health barrier for 5 mins(day 2 timer), ontop of the loot the have & ranked points.
• often times kills earned in the first few minutes are because a team horribly messed up
• a team who gets lvl 5 can pick whatever objective they want on the map and decide it is theirs until day 2. the only teams who can contest them are other lvl 5 teams.

[calm basin]

One of the funnest experiences ive had in league was playing old udyr (literall garbage in aram) and steam rolled the game by going a weird ap hybrid build. Getting called slurs by enemy team. My own knowlege of the game and ingenuity won us the game.

Had a similar experience in vive on kingpin when I took ambrush. Bushwacker and found the armor shred power. Suddenly 1 slam broke their armor and we won the game off my picks. Incredible gaming experience

[potent gust]

Coming from unexpected angles, surprising my opponents with quirky builds, that was my jam. I love playing tacticals, I love coming with strategies, Supervive is litterally a dream game come true

[marble granite]

only in supervive can this happen

[calm basin]

One reason I miss the owl power. It was really funny to have just an army of owls with me. Wizard beer maxing

[turbid vector]

thats how ff ult works with bungee? wow

[wide quartz]

I actually like the idea of slowing down levels 1-5 because of some of this. But it’s definitely less sugar rush up front.

There are definitely people who will rebel there, haha.

[calm basin]

Honestly fine with it. Even tho I love scrapy early fights

[marble granite]

POV: Jayce Q

I did report it in case it was a bug (https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1281672252848476296), Adamarc said the speed was intentional as it used to work like that but the direction isn't

[turbid vector]

yea

should launch you the oppisite way

[wide quartz]

Omg

[calm basin]

I feel like I am derailed from the topic. Whats the current topic rn

[wide quartz]

I think my current topic is now…sleep

[marble granite]

go bed

[wide quartz]

(It’s 2:30AM. Heh.)

[potent gust]

Ye, get some sleep, we need you in great shape 😦

[grim falcon]

WTF AHAHAHAH

I love this game man, sandbox is everything

[calm basin]

Good topic. Go sleep. Its very important for a healthy mind

[marble granite]

IT'S SO SILLY

if it is a bug, I hope they keep it but just make it go backwards instead of forwards, it's so fun

[latent gorge]

Get good sleep! We will be tehre tomorrow for the talk 😎

[potent gust]

Dw we got topics to yap about in a week, I remember it being voice chat something, will it be text/voice, voice only or?

[turbid vector]

understandable

goodnight!
Sleep well c:

[wide quartz]

Night everyone!

[calm basin]

Nini

[marble granite]

https://tenor.com/view/a-mimir-gif-21449019

[potent gust]

GOOD NIGHT!

[turbid vector]

https://tenor.com/view/anime-cat-sleep-gif-9096283

[forest rivet]

I think this is another "over simplification" why do I have to know what level 3 ability my opponent has? To me it feels like a skill to know that at level X someone is able or likely to have hit a level 3 ability and I should through knowledge about the game know what all 3 of them are and how to identify them and play against them. I don't think we need visual indicators and instant knowledge to be able to play. It's like knowing what each characters ultimate does and be careful about that. In my opinion

[calm basin]

Like if you see a kingpin somewhere you have 3 things to look out for. Hook cd refund, the dash pellet spread tighetning and the FROM THE TOP ROPES. I think it would be fun to try and deduce what the kingpin has lvl3rd. If you see him use a random jump pad youd assume he has slam lvl3.

[cinder axle]

All night 1 bosses spawn in the same place

[cinder axle]

Something to add I think souls should spawn Night 2 cause currently I do agree that sometimes the souls spawn in narnia and u have no way of contesting them, spawning on night 2 would make it a smaller circle and there also wouldnt be night 1 boss to contest

[grim falcon]

What do you do night 1 then ?

[cinder axle]

Night 1 bosses

[grim falcon]

Ah I misread my bad, you're right for souls

[cinder axle]

Currently on night 1 there is 4 objectives, there should be 2 and then 2 on night 2

[thorn sandal]

agree

[topaz hull]

I feel like circle will be too small at that point for meaningful and interesting objective play

[cinder axle]

Will cause more fights ans not lead to you just getting a objective uncontested

[topaz hull]

I am not sure that is more interesting or adds to the games depth

[tepid yew]

The circle is still pretty big day 2 / night 2

I think bosses and souls should be different times for a few reasons:

1. the fewer objectives on the map at once, the more teams per objective to contest it. Loki is most fun to me when you are playing a sandbox game with a 3+ team standoff

2. souls spawning a set time after bosses gives completing bosses a time limit - imposing limitations on that standoff that it needs to resolve sometime soon so you can all contest the next objective. This makes it more desperate, more exciting, and disincentivises stale gameplay

3. it gives more weight to map traversal - you'll likely find many teams getting similar pulls across the map, making obvious routing more dangerous, and thus giving the map a higher sense of risk and danger in higher skilled lobbies, which is exciting, and promotes more of an adventure to find more creative ways to traverse

[cinder axle]

Anion I should msg u to write what im thinking, u wrote litearlly exactly what I meant but wayy better wp

[tepid yew]

Your thoughts are good and what you write is clear to me, I like your feedback

[turbid vector]

What's this loki game? @tepid yew /j

[tepid yew]

I will not give name feedback I will not give name feedback I will not give name feedback

[turbid vector]

[wide quartz]

Morning.

[latent gorge]

Good morning : D.

(I am getting coffee right now 😭 )

[turbid vector]

morning~ c:

[wide quartz]

No worries - I just made my own. I’m early. Won’t start in earnest until 10.

[turbid vector]

is it not in an hour or am i getting times wrong?

yea okay nice c:

[marble granite]

i'm busy doing the worm

[turbid vector]

The what

[latent gorge]

https://tenor.com/view/samantha-anakshie-gif-26061425

[toxic depot]

is that what they're calling it nowadays

[marble granite]

https://tenor.com/view/worm-worm-dance-bored-gif-17198823

[turbid vector]

https://tenor.com/view/my-love-story-with-yamada-kun-at-lv999-yamada-lv999-anime-yamada-lv999-akane-akane-confused-confused-anime-gif-16048699582846891922

huhhh

[marble granite]

doin the worm waitin for the chat, you must understand

[latent gorge]

I feel like I'm early on Christmas morning

[turbid vector]

lol

It's like waking up a few hours before a supervive playtest and being like

Now i have to wait

[marble granite]

legit lmfao

[wide quartz]

Amazing.

[latent gorge]

I have coffee, the world spins

[wide quartz]

Coffee of choice today?

[turbid vector]

is it going to be in VC by the way?

[latent gorge]

I like to drink black 😅

[wide quartz]

Same! Pourover fan here.

[wide quartz]

Ah, today’s over text. Voice I was thinking during some kind of post-playtest window.

[latent gorge]

^ THAT would be sick. Post-test talks 😎

[turbid vector]

I see, makes sense c:

[wide quartz]

I have an idea when. Will figure it out first though for sure, then post here.

[wide quartz]

Yeah! We used to do these after every playtest until a few months ago. Wanted to give room to streams.

But I have an idea how we can make room for both.

[true condor]

👀

[toxic depot]

I know it doesn't really need to be said but I just wanted to say that the active dialogue between devs and players is the single biggest factor that motivated me to make this my next forever game ❤️

[turbid vector]

yea, feel free to use #1254976615004373053 or whatever if you want it to be a more like, per-week thing

[wide quartz]

A lot of people also stay awake over both EU and NA windows, and are pretty delirious at the end of it, heh.

[turbid vector]

100% it's great c:

[long flint]

This is true, I never joined those because they looked scary

[wide quartz]

Which I find amazing, but also, sleep!

[calm basin]

Sleep is important :3

[turbid vector]

yup

[marble granite]

https://tenor.com/view/the-s-impsons-bush-homer-simpsons-homer-hiding-gif-4325800

[latent gorge]

Hell yeeee. Funny enough my story with Supervive is I played in a few playtest like 3 years, stepped back to let yall cook, then came back over summer and was SO SO excited to see all the changes nad play with them

[turbid vector]

oh that's really cool c:

[wide quartz]

One thing I liked about these was that it wasn’t super official, if that makes sense.

[wide quartz]

Actually, this is part of the reason!

[latent gorge]

Pretty much once Rioter's I really liked left Riot, I would see if on twitter they announce what they plan on doing next. How I found Omega Strikers, Fangs, and this

[turbid vector]

yea that's fair, just wanted to mention it atleast

[wide quartz]

I need to see more of your highlights.

[long flint]

Lmaoo I troll my team so hard sometimes

[wide quartz]

Oh, for sure! I appreciate it.

[wide quartz]

This is the way.

[turbid vector]

Whats the most you can troll your alies

[marble granite]

annoying your friends is the best

[turbid vector]

I think playing with ezib (no flame, he's so fun to play with) really showed me how much you can do

[latent gorge]

Right :]

[marble granite]

you know firsthand 🫡

[turbid vector]

Setting up a two-way tp on heart, and then accidentally tp'ing it as your ally is almost over the two way tp

transporting heart into them

Very fun

[marble granite]

don't give me any ideas

[long flint]

I actually had a play I clipped where I teleported chipsa with a two way tp on accident and he killed me

[turbid vector]

lol

Two way tp with heart not like

destroying it was kinda bonkers

you just had a portable heart

you took with you around the map

filling like 40% of your screen final fight xD

[long flint]

Yeah sometimes it would disappear visually and then ppl would die to “nothing”

[wide quartz]

Ezib highlights are great.

[turbid vector]

They really are

https://www.twitch.tv/ryanlemur/clip/ResilientUgliestCarrotPMSTwin-7CcA9QHWY1QzbSeA

This made me laugh so much

It's just so good

[marble granite]

two-way tp is prob one of my favorite powers in the game

jumpscared @latent gorge "OH MY GOD"

[latent gorge]

LMFAOO The timing was just so good, homie popped off with the tp

[wide quartz]

The Heart is some of the best proof we love this kind of stuff in the game. Lol.

[marble granite]

when I found out you could tp beacons, a new world opened

[wide quartz]

Tehleach has definitely tried to Airblast me into it. 😔✊

Hahaha.

[latent gorge]

Brutal 💀

[marble granite]

betrayal 😔

[wide quartz]

It’s so good.

[short beacon]

just so I know
the next vc is in like 20 ish minutes right?

[long flint]

Ezib was cooking here tho I saw the vision

[turbid vector]

yea it definetly was there

[wide quartz]

Any time there’s a new object. We’re always wondering - can you affect it? Move it? Teleport it? Swap it? Hook it?

[latent gorge]

No VC today! The next time is potentially post playtest tmk

[marble granite]

please do more of it, it actually makes things so fun

[turbid vector]

See.. I'd argue void swap should swap rez beacons too

but then i realize how stupid that'd be

It'd also feel horrible when trying to get onto a rez beacon

[latent gorge]

It makes the environment around you feel more engaging and alive. That is when a game breathes and has a pulse

[turbid vector]

yup!

[wide quartz]

We have had exactly this conversation, hahah.

[turbid vector]

yea

[wide quartz]

Which is why I think it’s nice that Powers exist.

[turbid vector]

definetly

[wide quartz]

Gives you a different lever.

[turbid vector]

I think void is the character most reliant on powers

There's such a huge difference between having a movement power on him, and not having one

[marble granite]

anything that makes the movement sillier I'm all for, me and a friend tried teching rescue grenade with felix R to make a 90 degree fire wall

[topaz hull]

Do you feel the game is deep enough to dump hours on hours into and feel like that time is well spent as a result of winning games?

[turbid vector]

Is this question meant for anyone specific?

[true condor]

Idk id like to know too

[turbid vector]

Personally I think so, like any game is essentially time 'wasted' on enjoying yourself

[wide quartz]

LOL

I saw this one as it happened too, I’m pretty sure.

[turbid vector]

lol I see

[wide quartz]

I’m terrified of Bishops around Hearts.

Even if it’s just me psyching myself out.

(Often.)

[turbid vector]

That's understandable

[wide quartz]

Lol

[turbid vector]

For some reason what people don't fear

is the myth behind the wall

[marble granite]

that and kingpin near hearts, ALLY OR ENEMY

[turbid vector]

lurking in the shadows

ready to RMB you

[wide quartz]

Hahaha

[grim falcon]

Hi safelocked! Thanks for our conv this morning!

Hope you're doing well

[wide quartz]

Player Delivery Service.

[turbid vector]

Do we have some specific subjects today? ^^

[marble granite]

ye i'm actually curious too

[turbid vector]

oh no

i saw the name

and i realised what clip this was

[wide quartz]

I have a standing list from this group. 🙂

[turbid vector]

ah.. that one was balanced ™️

[forest rivet]

I love teleporting people into heart or mini heart (koba) as void too.

[wide quartz]

Just scrolling up to make sure I haven’t missed a few comments I meant to respond to..

[forest rivet]

Half of the time I end up teleporting myself into it though.

[true condor]

Woah what an interesting clip

[turbid vector]

`# Topics

• Social ✅

• Things That Got Cut, And I Miss Them

• Mana

• (NEW) Scouting and the Information Game (I'm re-adding this one. I really want to know the dreams people have here.)

• Tell me more about characters getting simplified.

• Ability leveling.

• Mobility?

• Other topics, if y'all have 'em.`

i think

without formatting so ya can copy it

[true condor]

Idk maybe dev that's the point of the thread but I could know no better I'm a simple observer that would be my hunch ...............

[wide quartz]

It is for me! But as with all things, you should decide what you like. Play the games you enjoy, at the end of the day.

[true condor]

that is so true

[true condor]

I feel like the third topic would generate a very interesting discussion of sort

[wide quartz]

Group Teleport: Clear good and bad plays. Heh.

[wide quartz]

Doing great! Thanks for asking.

And, of course! This is fun.

[wide quartz]

Going all the way back. Just to make sure I understand.

Currently, ability level 3 upgrades don’t show up.

[forest rivet]

Brb! (At work)

[turbid vector]

I'm pretty sure the point is that you shouldn't have to see them, even if they do more

[wide quartz]

Ahh, all good. We can come back to it later.

[turbid vector]

figuring out what the enemy has is part of the fun

[wide quartz]

Yeah - I just don’t think I understood why it was mentioned as part of an oversimplification pass.

[turbid vector]

yea fair

Idk

[wide quartz]

All good. Figure we can get context later. 🙂

[turbid vector]

https://tenor.com/view/shirosaki-hana-shirosaki-hana-anime-nod-nod-gif-3093171800157173367

I ate some nice pizza while everyone was chatting earlier n I am now readith to discusseth c:<

[wide quartz]

I think that might have been the last thing I wanted to double-check.

Oh, Soul timing. Let’s cover that in pacing.

[slow tartan]

I can speak for Levvo he's my friend and I know exactly what he was saying. That was in reference to adding some sort of indicator (to the hud or elsewhere) for lv 3 abilities

[wide quartz]

Gotcha. This was an idea from Zz. There’s no plans to do this to the game.

[grim falcon]

hm

Interesting

[wide quartz]

We certainly can talk about it. This group seemed pretty divided on it, though!

[foggy sleet]

i will simply not look at it xD

[turbid vector]

Are there actually any plans we can know?

leaks >:D

[wide quartz]

Hahaha. Yeah, this often can happen too.

[grim falcon]

Yeah no worries, I believe a lot of us believe the lvl3 rn are not "enough" and just "stat upgrade", we're probably more divided on if it should appear anywhere which lvl 3 skill we leveled up or not

[wide quartz]

You’ll never catch me with a leak!

[slow tartan]

i think it shouldn't fwiw i agree with levvo's reasoning completely

[grim falcon]

I believe TC stand on the side of "it should", Levvo thinks it shouldn't, I'm in between

Basically

And by TC i refer to the kaiju power hour podcast where Ferny talked about it, idk if their stance on it changed

[forest rivet]

I believe the discussion was that if level 3 abilities change how skills work people are no longer able to know beforehand how to deal with a certain hunter. And then kept going to ways to show how level 3 abilities can show up on the UI in different ways.

My reason for stating oversimplification is because data like this can be read through other means like game knowledge.

(Semi-afk but I'll peek in when I can)

[marble granite]

exhibit A

[wide quartz]

How dare.

[latent gorge]

LMFAO

[marble granite]

LMAO

[slow tartan]

I will say though, to even discuss this is getting kind of far out there. We originally brought that up in the hypothetical case they juiced up every lv3 ability upgrade option to be an augmented ability (or w/e) rather than some of the stat upgrades currently there

[wide quartz]

Yep. This is a lot of - we think TC would do this - and then do another HUD thing on top of it. Heh.

[slow tartan]

which sounds difficult to do right and i am not really expecting that by next pt or anything

[wide quartz]

Which, by the way. I think there are cases that were helpful callouts to making ability level 3s better, even without the HUD change.

[slow tartan]

yeah exactly... now that we cleared up the context for what levvo was talking about, what are some other things we could talk about :p

[foggy sleet]

if level 3 upgrade is important to know, then equipment type would also need to be shown

[grim falcon]

Yeah you're right it's just hypothetical, mb for reffering to old stuff, nothing set in stone so I guess the conv isn't that relevant until they decide to do a thing or another

[turbid vector]

You're right

[marble granite]

INSANE

[wide quartz]

Omg

[turbid vector]

I don't know why this was the first thing i imagined xD

[latent gorge]

I like this a lot

[wide quartz]

I need to make this my banner.

[turbid vector]

LOL

go for it

Do you need a banner size version?

[wide quartz]

Hahah, I’ll take it.

Next topic I had was Myth, but I think folks were saying they were good?

[turbid vector]

I think this is about it

[turbid vector]

Yea anion covered the points with bid

[wide quartz]

Context seemed already in other posts. Maybe someone can just bump it so I can muse on it.

[wide quartz]

Gotcha.

JMo and Bid are Myth coparents, so I’ll still take the post links so they’re both thinking of the same things. If it’s all in the Myth channel, that works too.

[marble granite]

What kind of feedback, specifically, should be mentioned for hunters?

[wide quartz]

Coparents? Heh.

[marble granite]

Are we talking in the realm of ability upgrades, general design/game health, etc.?

[wide quartz]

The original topic was around - were there skill checks that you missed, or that you felt exist but got overridden?

[marble granite]

I see

[turbid vector]

i mean go for it
Anion talks with both of em a lot though, she gives really really good feedback so

as well as some great ms paint visualisations

Personally, if we're still on the character train I'd love to talk about void

because I feel like not that many people play him and he kind of needs some love

[wide quartz]

Some of the conversation so far with Oath and Bishop’s been around feeling like ability level 3s were fun, but overrode the need to express skill checks people enjoyed later in the game. Some of it was actually about things that seemed removed, but might actually be pretty specific bugs. Some of it is new requests - wanting additional skill checks.

If that makes sense.

[turbid vector]

yea it does ^^

[wide quartz]

I’m down to move to Void next!

[turbid vector]

nice c:

[forest rivet]

Void!

[foggy sleet]

i just got idea for void tp empowered and lvl 3 upgrade. i think they can just be swapped. someone pointed out that lower cooldown on empowered can throw you off because most of the time you are used to the normal one. if lvl 3 upgrade was a shorter delay it would make him play a little diffrently and make it a good option

[fading basin]

I got some shit to say for Elluna if we can go there after void

[grim falcon]

^ same

[wide quartz]

Very demure edits, haha. I’m in.

[fading basin]

i type faster than i think so i gotta go back and edit like 90% of my messages lol

[marble granite]

SO TRUE i do this shit too

[fading basin]

but lets do void first so we keep in line with the plan

[wide quartz]

How do people feel about this?

[topaz hull]

One of the things that stands out to me about a lot of hunters is that there isn't a deep flow chart for combat or meaningful interactions with other hunter's kits or in their own kit. A large portion of them seem designed to approach combat in a linear method rather than be that thoughtful about how and when they use their abilities. There really isn't a lot of room for the player controlling the hunter to express creativity and mastery of their kit or their understanding of their opponent

[turbid vector]

I am typing a whole essay

dw

I'll get to it xD

[trail lava]

idk this would be a massive nerf to him

the faster TP is the only thing that keeps him alive in fights often

[true condor]

I agree

[trail lava]

i personally think void is in a really good spot right now the only thing i think i'd change is the level 3 RMb upgrade is pretty boring, i'd suggest maybe when it hits it applies a debuff that explodes after X amount of time

[silver sable]

[long flint]

Yeah. I agree that it does feel you’re being forced into one build/lvl 3 skill on most characters as well for competition sake

[slow tartan]

let me cook for a sec. what if this was his tp upgrade, and part 2 was optional (click again after u tp) to take you (and whoever is on you) back to where you tp'd from

[foggy sleet]

it think shield is more helpful when you are empowered since you are already fighting, and would make tp more consistent if it is always the same delay. i mostly go for lvl 3 q

[wide quartz]

Hmm. The bigger the generalization, the more examples are desirable.

True for life.

But this is why we’re spending time with each Hunter. Differences are specific, even with this Void conversation.

[next shadow]

I think Void is in a very good state as well. I think his lv 3 abilites good be a bit better. But love his kit and how he feels in the meta.

[forest rivet]

Let me try and put a word in for Void while I'm free.

I think Void is generally in a good place, but if you think Bishop is in a good place right now, he might need something more.

First level 3s:

• RMB: Is dull and don't give anything to the Void playstyle. Void is a strategic character so just adding damage feels weird.

• Shift: The shield idea is great but of no use, it thinks shift as an engage tool giving the party a super small shield. I think it should help Voids choice to play a support role but a shield that doesn't scale isn't helpful. enough.

• E(Q): Is amazing and exactly what a level 3 ability should be!

Secondly passive;

Void is a "play smart" type of hero and not really a "go yolo" type. So I don't understand a passive that encourage playing aggressive.

And lastly Voids skills in general:

It feels like each skill has a perk and a punishment (R is very clear with the "rooted") and the TTK Void has compared to other hunters is not that great. So I'm not sure these restrictions are helpful or "fair". Most of the time we avoid this by ulting from the air for example.

Ye that's about it? I love Void

[wide quartz]

Is it Void’s RMB mainly for you too?

[next shadow]

yes

[wide quartz]

Sick.

[forest rivet]

But his main kit is amazing, I'd maybe shave off 0.2 seconds from the cast time of Ultimate and it's in a good spot.

[latent gorge]

I feel in a vaccum of specific characters themselves, probably not. It isn't something I've spent a lot of time thinking on, but I feel a lot of the "magic" is how you syenergize with your teammates and environment. I have never felt with any of the hunter's I've played that I am in a box of sorts where I am limited with when I cast spells. I mean some spells will inheirentely be situational but I feel like spells are just tools for different scenarios and you use them to help win/live that scenario.

[topaz hull]

I think an example of what I like is looking at ghost. He has several methods for approaching combat. He can use a grenade on his opponent and then lmb them. He can grenade a wall and then shoot them. He can use grenade into his ult. There are several ways his abilities interact with each other and with the environment which allows for ghost players to make choices on how they approach combat based on their opponents and the terrain.

An example of what I don't like is kingpin or Firefox. Both of these characters have extremely linear directions and no room for creativity from the player controlling the character. This is evident in how they use their abilities in combat and their vectors to engage with combat. I can break this down in further detail if necessary

[trail lava]

i think you have to be super careful about buffing the ult. It has the highest upside of any ult in the game so it should remain being hard to use and easy to stop IMO

[wide quartz]

Spicy. What do people think about this?

[turbid vector]

Alright so void, there's a few things that really stand out

* Passive - Hands of fate (haha)

• (empowered, not the floating) Inconsistent to get in a fight, you kind of need to be already fighting.
• The faster Lshift is worse than having it slower half the time, since it means you can move less before you swap.

* Lshift - Swap

• Perhaps one of the most painful things as void is that this ability is so easy to cancel. If void is hit with any cc when his swap falls down, it's cancelled; and he's probably just dead.
• This is a bug but it's been in the game for so long - Swapping boxes randomly TP you twice the distance, making box rexes impossible while tp'ing
• Lvl 3 ability has no scalings (shield), making it feel weird to have since it never gets better, no matter how strong you are.

* Rmb - Snap

• The distance-based stun makes sense up until you consider that void.. wants enemies to be close; that's when he can ult them, that's who he should be punishing, so it stunning less on targets in melee just feels weird because.. they just dash into him and he's less relevant.
• Lvl 3 is just.. bland. More damage is so 'Eh'

* E - Vortex something

• Honestly no problems with this ability. The ground is amazing.
• Lvl 3 is interesting, but could maybe be lower base and then scale slightly.

* R - Black hole

• It would be so incredibly easy to make a montage of this spell getting cancelled. It has like 1.5 seconds windup, if not more! Half the time, the enemy can react an entire second too late and still cc him before it comes out, cancelling it entirely.
• Not to mention he's also rooted during the windup. So it's not really like you're outplaying him by cc'ing him, you're just.. clicking your spell on a rooted target.

[forest rivet]

This is an interesting level 3!

[trail lava]

i think it seems way too strong and also seems very oppresive to play against imo

[wide quartz]

It is very strong.

[turbid vector]

how is that

[next shadow]

way to op

[marble granite]

I agree. It feels like too much, especially in comparison to other Level 3 abilities, from both Void and other hunters. I think Void would just not take any other Level 3.

[wide quartz]

🙂

[forest rivet]

Also true

[latent gorge]

I feel it is a little too much on the scale of "This is info I should probably know before fighting this void" and "too much" for that sweet spot. I don't think any other lvl 3 in the game would match the scale that this proposed void upgrade would have.

BUT LET ME JUST SAY IT IS A COOL IDEA AND BE SICKKK

[turbid vector]

That is

literally what the ability does

no?

If he's swapping in

and they're standing in it

they will go to his team

The only thing new is that he goes back

[foggy sleet]

how about holding shift to cancel tp. for baiting purpuses

[marble granite]

I think he's saying you can undo a swap and still take people

So basically you can swap in and swap out

[slow tartan]

it is too strong for the abilities that are in rn but it also adds a lot of gameplay depth. i know that's too op for the game but im thinking of what if every ability upgrade changed the ability by that much at lv 3

[forest rivet]

I think shield on shift is OK, just make it scale on AP or HP ?

[turbid vector]

Ah i see

[wide quartz]

I believe the idea is - what if Void’s ability level 3 gave you Group Teleport-levels of agency.

[turbid vector]

I mean this is just what void's swap should be able to do with abyss specialist

but abyss has a weird delay on it for void

and you can't cast it immidiatly

[wide quartz]

The agency in that kind of swap is very cool. But yes, very powerful.

[marble granite]

I think it's just too strong and spicy to be a Level 3 upgrade tbh, comparatively to other Level 3 upgrades for both Void and other hunters

[wide quartz]

I like the ideation.

[fading basin]

make it a secret lvl 4 upgrade for XP soul

[wide quartz]

It’s cool to think about different Swap styles.

[marble granite]

Yea absolutely, it's that kind of brainstorming that'll put us on a good track I feel

[wide quartz]

Omg.

[turbid vector]

like this is literally the idea

it's in the game already guys

[wide quartz]

Reading..

[slow tartan]

But being able to go back opens up so many kinds of plays and even out of fight maneuvers. I think it's too op cuz this would allow void to 1) fish for picks by himself by shifting into enemy team and shifting back with some1 (that would feel cheap af) 2) go in fish for ult shift back out 3) move teammates in and out to fish 4) shift in on wisp then shift back out. I mean the more I think about what it would allow you to do the more I realize how broken it is

[foggy sleet]

i will have to try this

[marble granite]

Yes but you need to have a power just to do it, and you're way more time-gated on it than a recast

[turbid vector]

like this is very common

and already possible with powers

so i'm not sure why we would want in on the ability itself?

[marble granite]

Oh I see what you mean now

I thought you meant "it's in the game already so it's clearly not too strong"

[turbid vector]

it's not just one power either

any movement power could do this lol

[rose hound]

Oath isn’t fat! He’s husky 😭💀

[foggy sleet]

for me his tp is the most fun part of his kit

[fading basin]

someone ping me when we get started on elluna btw pls

[calm basin]

Is the topic rn Hunters?

[turbid vector]

sure

[slow tartan]

ok yeah that's exactly it lool abyss specialist is so nuts on like every hunter i guess

[turbid vector]

void specifically but yea

also one void thing

that 100% needs to be fixed

is his interaction with invulnerable

It's literally every fight

[foggy sleet]

and box tping

[turbid vector]

yea

[cinder axle]

Please let me know if we ever get to objectives timing as a subject.

[turbid vector]

Void ult will simply refuse to pull enemies that have been invulnerable when they first touched it

[grim falcon]

i'll ping ya

[turbid vector]

https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1269760209384112228

[calm basin]

When elluna or Hudson(gunner) comes up ping me pls <3

[rose hound]

What’s the current queue for hunter discussion?

[wide quartz]

Sheeeesh

[slow tartan]

i watched that like 10 more times and it is so cool

[marble granite]

I will say as someone who plays both KP and Felix pretty much exclusively, Kingpin I think is the worse of the two offenders in that regard, as he has generally like two combos, and the only other thing is hooking allies/wisps. Felix at least has some semblance of it there with RMB Ignite spread and bigger shields for higher Ignite levels. I wouldn't mind a few more options for depth's sake. More ways to interact, like bonuses for proccing Ignite on unique targets, or making R more interactive, would be awesome.

But I'll save that talk for when we get to Felix

[turbid vector]

I agree but unfortunatly you can't do them more together because of the weird 'cooldown' you get using abyss spec as void

[wide quartz]

Abyss Specialist is a great wrinkle to make this play happen, too.

[turbid vector]

you can only do it when your lshift has almost landed

so you don't really get to choose when you time it

[wide quartz]

Right, there are conditions.

I think one question I had was - any dreams people had for Void RMB level 3?

Since that one came up a few times.

[turbid vector]

One could be really simply but already so much better

let it pass through enemies

[drifting sparrow]

let it pass through walls /j

[turbid vector]

lol

An issue with leveling it atm is if you hit ult and want to RMB for damage

you're on hitting one

[foggy sleet]

make cc not scale with range?

[turbid vector]

and you don't really choose who you hit

[rose hound]

Just let void engulf the entire map in a black hole 🥰

[turbid vector]

lol

[wide quartz]

I…

[turbid vector]

Cannonically correct void

[fading basin]

with the middle of the ult being on the heart so everyone just dies

[rose hound]

Real winners are who can run fast enough 😈

[wide quartz]

Biblically accurate Void.

[turbid vector]

lol

[grim falcon]

LORE LEAK

:alert:

[drifting sparrow]

but surely you want to just e/q in that scenario, right? so wouldn't e/q max make more sense?

[wide quartz]

Oh no. I can’t tell what the leak is.

[turbid vector]

Yea but i mean there's other situations where it'd be nice to have double stuns

[marble granite]

someone tell dolphy

[fading basin]

just have a cold brew like rated and then say it

[turbid vector]

dolphy collects leaks like throphies

oh i have to draw this

[true condor]

If Void RMB's a wall he can use it to spawn a delayed piercing projectile on the direction it hit after with telegraphed wind-up

If Void RMB's someone the cluster spawns shards on its front to spread damage in cone to enemies behind which makes sense with the ability name

[turbid vector]

gimme a second

[drifting sparrow]

oh, like Lissandra Q?

edit: for the second half

[true condor]

who is lissandra

[marble granite]

we found the league refugee

[slow tartan]

both these ideas sound cool, like this is the type of thing i wanna see on the ability upgrades

[wide quartz]

I’m hearing some pass-through ideas … which are also spicy. 🙂

[drifting sparrow]

No more league for me, I just watch the pro games now

[marble granite]

I gotta say prob one of my favorite upgrades is Kingpin's FROM THE TOP ROPES

I love the idea of upgrades that change how you think about the ability

[foggy sleet]

i quit league since i started supervive haha

[slow tartan]

my idea about the void shift was way too op but i think it would be cool if something about how you use it to position changed more. but maybe void players would be cool with the shield if it were buffed it sounds like

[latent gorge]

That is my plan pre much as well

[true condor]

I would like more upgrades like this instead of upgrading more stats or just rewarding more for hitting the ability instead giving more utility or ways to use the ability in dinstinct creative sandbox manner

[slow tartan]

me too exactly

[latent gorge]

^ yup, that is what it is all about

[drifting sparrow]

I had an idea way while back with Void's shift about how you could make it like Loba's translocator and activate it early to instantly drop.

[latent gorge]

Enough to make us be creative/think differently about how we use the ability or just makes it sandboxey in a way but not enough to where it is like game breaking/overtuned if that makes any sense

[drifting sparrow]

I don't think this would work as a lvl 3 since it would require you to be able to recast it, but I thought I'd throw it out there.

[slow tartan]

that sounds less broken than my swapback idea and this still achieves gameplay depth by changing timings during a fight (and also lets void move a little faster) this sounds nice at first thought

[wide quartz]

Contextual abilities for walls vs. players is also fun to think about.

[true condor]

I agree.

[forest rivet]

Maybe just remove the short stun on short length RMBs x)

[drifting sparrow]

I think another big thing that could be cool for Void would be to be able to start channeling his ult while he is swapping so that when he swaps the ult insta-casts, like Shiv can do with her phantom dagger->death blossom. I don't think it would actually be that broken considering how telegraphed the swap is rn.

[forest rivet]

100% full stun

[wide quartz]

I feel like it’s part of what makes Bishop and Oath sharper. Sometimes I worry a bit about it feeling a little same-y if we do it everywhere. Maybe that’s not a concern?

[marble granite]

I'm all for more interactions with walls and terrain with abilities

[forest rivet]

I think that's not needed.

[slow tartan]

I never see ppl talk about how good the wall gameplay is... walls/terrain are almost everywhere and you can get so much more out of hunters that have wall-hit abilities if you pay attention and they can be the absolute highlight of your play (on shiv rmb stunning w/ terrain for example)... the wall gameplay is so fun though if your hunter uses it

[drifting sparrow]

Yeah, and the perception of it being strong might be too much on his power budget...

[wide quartz]

With this, I’ve been curious. Is this not a simplification of the ability in some ways?

[forest rivet]

Remove 0.1 - 0.2 seconds om cast-time on ultimate, make sure it always drops on the ground and fix level 3 RMB and start scaling level 3 shift with something so its useful.

[slow tartan]

can void be moved by a teammate or an item while he is channeling his ult? basically what pensato said but it's actually in the game already?

[cinder axle]

Ult cast time should not be reduced

[drifting sparrow]

yes, but I think the ult shows up where he started channeling

[true condor]

Yes

[next shadow]

dont remove cast time. Would be way to broken

[forest rivet]

Using my own words against me. Rude

I think it's too powerful yes. Was just a wild idea xD

[true condor]

It should still reward proper spacing instead of just face stunning someone because its long ranged or else it just becomes KP Stun as a projectile

[drifting sparrow]

I think the thing with Rmb is that it is a similar scenario with how KP's hook->slam combo isn't a true combo, Void's close-range Rmb->Ult isn't a true combo either, but Void doesn't have the tools to help make up for that and play out the combo, so he needs more of his team's help or more powers to enable him

[forest rivet]

Why? I'm talking milliseconds. Right now a blind donkey can react and get away.

[true condor]

If you remove this the ability just becomes a linear stun which is easier and simplified so I assume safelocked's guess on this is correct

But that is just my opinion.

[turbid vector]

I feel like

you guys don't realise

how slow void ult is

[slow tartan]

ur right we really don't

[drifting sparrow]

so close-range RMB having a lower stun duration feels worse. I think something could be done to help with that, like maybe some knockback, a lingering slow, or something else, idk, but I think it is good that it doesn't true-combo into ult.

[forest rivet]

Right now the only way to 100% land an ultimate is to full range stun, move forward, cast ultimate. Pray for what 1.6 seconds that no one else is close enough (a screen) and then even once cast it's not a 100% sure kill anyway.

[fickle scaffold]

I definately like the lvl 3 abilities adding depth to moves, but i also dont want them to be so strong that the meta is always dump points into a tier 3 by level 6 for every character. I like the level 2s having significant impact in rounding out the character's kits relative to tier 3s accentuating strengths

[turbid vector]

Void is 50% done with his ult

before the enemy even starts pressing a button

and he still loses the trade

[next shadow]

Because void would be mega broken then. Dont think you relize how important it is that there is a cast time

[drifting sparrow]

and it isn't like Bishop punch is a fast ability of anything

[wide quartz]

Ooh, Apex reference.

[turbid vector]

Like it's not that cast time isn't important

but this just feels like you have to never use the abiity

unless they have 0 cc

or any dashes

and you're close to them

[drifting sparrow]

and they are stunned
and they don't have boots upgraded

[turbid vector]

I feel like there's just so many conditions that have to be true for void to hit an ult

especially if his enemies actually play well.

[wide quartz]

Tom’s definitely seen many versions of Void at this point.

[turbid vector]

like genuinly you only hit void ult when people make a major mistake

[forest rivet]

There is 1.6 seconds of cast time. Whilst being rooted. Its not that strong. You're overreacting

Making it 1.5 will remove sluggish respond times and still be insanely stunnable and stoppable

[drifting sparrow]

1.5 seconds would still be a super long time to be rooted, casting an ability btw

[next shadow]

[fading basin]

from having played with voids, if you tune down cast time on void hes gonna be 100% pickrate in high mmr

[wide quartz]

Maybe Tom is just Void.

[fading basin]

because there arent any 100% saving factors from his ult like in overwatch there needs to be counterplay to cancelling it.

[wide quartz]

I think it’s probably like..

Meta, skill band dependent.

[fading basin]

You saw it in overwatch that the moment there was a thing that made it possible to kill through those counterplays zarya became meta instantly cus its a free win

[drifting sparrow]

I'm not sure I understand what you mean

[true condor]

I believe the messages here are highlighting a fundamental design problem with his ult which is either a 100-0 with no in-between and thus makes adjusting it tricky in balancing. You either get cancelled or stomp everyone instantly. Adjusting the wind-up even by slight number can make it broken and should not be done.

[next shadow]

The thing with Void atm. Is that a lot of people thing void is "weak" spot, becuase of certian things with his kit. The problem is that void is one of the hardest hunters in the game. I already talked a lot about this with Chipsa. But void will instantly get a lot better when we get more access to the game. The is sooo many things you can do already, but we havent scratched the surface yet. Thats why am extremly hesitant on buffing him. Cuz i already think he is in a mega spot, but we are not good enought ot play him at a top level, cuz you need good comp and teamates HAVE to play around void. And thats also why i love void. He is so diffrent and gives a unique approach to the game

[fading basin]

im saying that in overwatch the zarya graviton which is basically the same as void ult is allowed to have almost instant cast time because it has downsides with other characters being able to not give it 100% lethality and the swap factor to be able to always have those. In supervive neither of those are in the game so you need to be able to deal with the ult in some other way which right now is the cast time being long from how i see it at least

[wide quartz]

I do think you introduced one constraint that wasn’t talked about. Casts only on ground.

[sterile geode]

(still have no internet) but I do wamt to say that I think a reason a lot of people think that void is weak, and that he will always be weak is that he has nothing that manipulates his momentum. His movement ability is amazing, but without powers he cannot change his momentum at all.

[turbid vector]

I don't think void is bad, he's pretty balanced if anything.

Although I agree there's a lot void can do, and we can play him better.

Enemies will get better as we do
It's literally so fucking easy to cancel his abilities, and it's not like we can press the button quicker, or better, to make it harder to cancel.

So like.. the argument that we complain void is bad because the people playing him haven't gotten good enough at him yet it just.. so weird to me

[wide quartz]

The subtleties are real.

[turbid vector]

if anything people will get better and more consistent at playing against void, and it wont be 50% cancelrate

it'll be 100%

because seriously

it is so easy to cancel!

[fading basin]

I dont think the answer is preemptively tuning down his cast time though. If it gets to that point where its that bad you can tune it down or change it to not be cancelled alot. But right now it isnt at the point where its that bad from my experience

[drifting sparrow]

I see what you mean. I think there are a lot of other things that make Void's ult not feel worth the 1.6s cast time sometimes, including bugs involving invulnerability, but another thing is that void's ult, even if it hits, even if void isn't canceled or stunned in the 1.6s casttime, isn't a death sentence, just like Zarya's wasn't. Zeph can outheal Void by a mile, heck, even Elluna clears Void's dps, teammates can pressure Void as he tries to secure the kill so that he has to trade his life for theirs. Also, if he dies, he can't recast his e to secure that huge burst

[turbid vector]

If you don't want to make it quicker, atleast allow us to move doing the windup

That's honestly the bigger issue

[foggy sleet]

how about remove the root and make void slowed

[forest rivet]

Ah no, the ulti if cast whilst in air, should land on the ground*

[turbid vector]

You don't have to use skill to hit us during the windup

we are rooted.

[next shadow]

but the other hunters dosent have the same depth as void. So there is only so much they can learn compared to void players. Its easy to cancel void stuff, but his presence alone is so huge. Think about void has blitz from league. You dont always have to hook the enemy or use your ability. But by having it available, the enemy needs to respect it so much. That goes for almost all of voids abilites

[wide quartz]

What’s interesting is that this is the dilemma that often starts the conversation of - should we make certain skills faster? Stronger? More accessible? Is that increasing agency, or is it decreasing mastery?

Both? At what skill bands? Against which comps?

[lavish scaffold]

A hunter does not need to have depth for them to be able to significantly or easily deny a hunter that does have depth.

[wide quartz]

At what phase of the game? With what items?

[turbid vector]

Yeah, it opens up more questions than it answer but like

[turbid vector]

This is also kind of the issue though

[sweet stump]

To be honest, you should be able to toggle to teleport everything in his teleport ability or only himself - would make him a lot more interesting by having more options / properly get away from someone

WARNING: I DO NOT PLAY VOID

[turbid vector]

Void is legitimatly better when he doesn't use any abilities

as in, people think they have to care when they really don't

(atleast, as long as they respond right to his things)

[drifting sparrow]

kinda a similar case to Myth E, people are scared of it when they don't have to be.

People are afraid of Void ulting them if they dive him, but they could just cancel the ult and brute force through

[turbid vector]

^

[wide quartz]

Humans are humans.

[turbid vector]

Void, the controller who's actually really horrible at controlling anything

if you just dive onto him

[sterile geode]

I feel like toggling stuff like that in voids TP completely ruins a level of skill needed to play him, and makes him feel far less "oh I mastered this" but at least that's how I view it

[turbid vector]

with singular cc

[drifting sparrow]

I think honestly, people might be too used to Void also playing with Celeste, because Celeste is actually hard to dive, between her wall and her ult

[wide quartz]

Balancing without taking into account what players will also experientially feel is tuff.

[turbid vector]

ofc

void is just a rough case because this is all speaking in high mmr

[wide quartz]

Even if it isn’t logical. It kind of is, weirdly.

[turbid vector]

where people are good enough to cancel it

but in a lower mmr?

[wide quartz]

For sure. There’s definitely variance given skill bands how this all plays out.

[forest rivet]

Alright well, you speak a little like I have not played a Void game in my life and have no insight into the character while I have over 600 games with this Hunter.

I'm not saying Void is bad, I'm saying he has unnecessary punishment for his strength that I don't see in many if any other hunters. The ultimate is a small detail that would help immensely with being able to do things like suprise plays and 0.1 seconds is not an insane buff, it's a minor adjustment so instead of getting stunned at 97% of ultimate it would be cast.

Either way the R change is a minor tweak I believe would make Void feel a lot smoother. The more Important changes should be level 3 on RMB and Shift should feel impactful.

[next shadow]

but thats becuase your team in that case is not playing the space with you. Am sure if we have the look at the cases that you are feeling then i can help you pinpoint the things that will make your void games easier<3

[turbid vector]

The kind of is

why does void have to rely on his team

to cover for him

as a controller?

y'know

[drifting sparrow]

You have to treat Void, in draft, like he's the hypercarry you center your team around

[turbid vector]

yeah

[fading basin]

I dont see why a character being reliant on team is a bad thing?

[turbid vector]

It's not nessecarily

[drifting sparrow]

and then, in game, if there is ever a moment when you aren't playing with the Void, he feels useless

[lavish scaffold]

Depends how much we focus on "reliant" as opposed to "team" IMO

[wide quartz]

This Void conversation might have been my favorite one.

[turbid vector]

There's a lot to void really

So it's really hard to say 'this is the issue'

[wide quartz]

The Oath one was the clearest, but this was really fun.

[next shadow]

Am not saying that at all. But as Safelocked mentioned earlier. I have seen many versions of void. And the version with less cast time. Was meega

[true condor]

have you tried to insight on his void bomb also

[turbid vector]

The biggest thing rn, and I think other things will eventually become an issue

Just fix his bugs. Please.

Void ult vs invul not working

box tp being rough

Those two can lose you games

every game

[wide quartz]

I’m very down with bugs being our focus.

Just comes at the cost of some of the other things we talked about. But yes.

[turbid vector]

** "OH I ULTED STORM.. oh.. she uh, she was invul and just walks out..."**

[sterile geode]

I do think void is an interesting look at the difference between "Making the kit better and more usable" vs "Making the character more universal by making him easier" and I do not think the latter one is good at all, at least for void

[next shadow]

I would love to type more about this. But i do wanna bapbap today while the test is going xD I think it really goes into the word controller and how we treat the word tho

[wide quartz]

He is definitely a great case study. Maybe the best one.

[fading basin]

I do think void however is in a very good state right now and that his usefulness will fluctuate based on the current skill level of people. because it will be learn to counterplay void -> void learns to adapt -> repeat

[turbid vector]

^

yup

I feel like right now sure he's not like super bad but

[drifting sparrow]

Yeah, I don't think anybody is asking to make void more universal, just give him some QoL. I think if his bugs were fixed that'd make a world of difference though

[turbid vector]

if people just counter his ult better (which should honestly be happening more)
it'll be so much harder to play

[drifting sparrow]

committing to playing Void is a big commitment out of game and in game, for Void and Void's teammates

[trail lava]

void is a very strong controller and i think people think he is bad into melees when in reality he isnt, assuming the the bug with his ult is fixed he will be able to deal with melees much easier. Void honestly might be the most balanced char in the game so i really wouldnt try to change him too much

[lavish scaffold]

Actually being able to rely on Void ult to do the one thing it's supposed to do would solve a lot of problems, honestly.

[turbid vector]

He really is though

RMB stuns less when in melee

0.8 is not enough to ult

So unless you're far enough from him that you get the 1.8 sec stun

you do not care

[drifting sparrow]

it's enough to E/Q though, and then you break their momentum if you time it right.

[trail lava]

doesnt matter stunning someone in melee even for a little bit is almost always enough to deny the engage. Void is one of the best heroes in the game into melees if you are good with ur RMB and know where to place your E

[turbid vector]

kinda

[drifting sparrow]

You aren't getting a true combo, but that's fine if you get a good chunk and trade into the melee

[turbid vector]

it kind of just feels like he should be better with how his kit is

[trail lava]

compared to most other hunters his counter engage is very very strong, 2nd only to maybe like Myth RMB?

[turbid vector]

like melee RMB > than max range rmb

ish

[turbid vector]

..freeze?

[trail lava]

freeze is only good counter engage if she has ult

[forest rivet]

I think Voids other skills are in a perfect spot!

[turbid vector]

"other skulls"

how many skulls does he have

[drifting sparrow]

nah, Celeste is followup. Even with her ult she just creates space if her team can't help her keep enemies there

[wide quartz]

Hahaha.

[lavish scaffold]

I'd argue that the threat/theory of Void counter-engage is stronger than his actual counter-engage, since everything he has is telegraphed enough to avoid it if you haven't already put yourself into a position where you can't avoid it, but getting hit by any of it can easily translate into a death sentence.

[trail lava]

celeste ult denies the engage hard but it doesnt win the fight

[sterile geode]

Skulls for the Skull throne

[drifting sparrow]

yeah, exactly.

[turbid vector]

yea

[trail lava]

thats why void+celeste is such an OP combo because then it allows you to turn the celeste ult into a fight winning ult after the engage has happened

[fading basin]

personally having played alot with both tom and chipsa on void, i fell very safe against melee when theyre on him. more than on other chars

[turbid vector]

also i forgot to send this;

Behold, dolphy's lore leak collection!

i'm so good at drawing guys

[forest rivet]

@trail lava You played a lot of Void lately? How would you feel shaving off cast time so it cast at like 95% of current?

[trail lava]

to be compared to Thomas kickington the 3rd is such a high honour

[drifting sparrow]

ChipSa still isn't beating the alligations

[wide quartz]

I think at least, for Void. There’s some aligned desire for more interest in the RMB level 3.

[trail lava]

off his ult or all of his abilites?

[wide quartz]

What that is, people may differ on.

[turbid vector]

well yea

[forest rivet]

Only the ultimate cast time

[turbid vector]

i mean rmb is so bland

I'd say lshift, atleast maybe some scalings

[wide quartz]

Bug fixes also don’t seem controversial. Lol.

[fading basin]

that and fix bugs

[turbid vector]

Actually

The invul bug fix could be

[humble shoal]

I think invul on some characters is fine if they are moving while in the invul. so i’m not cool if Celeste ulted and got to walk out but Idm when joul dashes through void ult because atleast her invul window is constant while interacting with the ult

[turbid vector]

specifically in the case of celeste

yea

what aiden said

[wide quartz]

Void’s agency is quite high with his swap, so it’s prone to more edge cases if we keep it as high as it is.

[forest rivet]

Also can we talk about Void passive? Why is it same as Brall? XD

[trail lava]

idk i've thought about it alot because its super frustrating for it to be cancelled all the time but i think that its probably better to be like this rather than either being faster or less counterable is some way since this ult has by far the highest upside of any ult in the game. Most of the times i miss the ult i feel like i've made a mistake

[wide quartz]

It’s a good stress test of..many things.

[turbid vector]

It's rough because like, if void can just freely ult celeste then it's a bit too easy

[wide quartz]

Map. Boxes. Collision. Objectives.

Minions.

Abyss. Lol.

[turbid vector]

but if it doesn't it might feel too like 'oh she just,.. ignores my ult'

[wide quartz]

Ahhh.

[humble shoal]

Well you will always be stunned by Celeste if you outright ult her on her ult. but that’s the trade off if you can make a play off it

[turbid vector]

not always

[wide quartz]

Right. What behavior do we actually want?

[turbid vector]

walls, oath, tp out

you can do stuff

[lavish scaffold]

Joule being able to dash through Void ult is fine, but she should absolutely get stunned if she walks back in.
Same for Brall ulting and walking out of it.

[turbid vector]

^^

[humble shoal]

I’m isolating the characters in this scenario I know the game is grey most of the time ye

[turbid vector]

I think it's kind of a

if they spend their invulnerability

to go into/around the ult

they should absolutely be punished for staying in it

[slow tartan]

is it bugged right now lol

[turbid vector]

yes

very much so

[lavish scaffold]

It's been bugged for months. https://discord.com/channels/852642429105995786/1269760209384112228

[turbid vector]

Like it should be 'If you're not invulnerable, and you're in the ult, you get stunned'.

[drifting sparrow]

yeah, it will stun at the beginning, and if you aren't invulnerable and walk in then it will stun, but if you were invlunerable, you just don't get stunned.

[trail lava]

in my opinion void ult should always stun any char who goes in it apart from i'd say joules dash (even then its a maybe). Brall with ult should still be stunned and celeste should be stunned the instant she comes out of the ult

[turbid vector]

invulnerable should bypass ult

that's fine

it's just after it

you should be stunned

[trail lava]

i dont think bralls invuln should stop the CC

[turbid vector]

It 100% should lol

[lavish scaffold]

This also brings up the question of whether invulnerability should only be invuln to damage or to CC as well, which is another fun discussion.

[turbid vector]

Atleast with how it works now

It's not less of an invul than every other one

[trail lava]

i'm fine for him to not take damage during the channel but stopping the CC is omega super toxic

[drifting sparrow]

Personally, I think the ult should work kinda like E as well, and just break the momentum of dashes through it, invulnerable or not. If Joule is gonna dash straight through the ult, she should get stunned imo.

[turbid vector]

^

this

Not really related to void ult

[trail lava]

i'm also slightly V rising pilled because i always think that an ability like bralls counter should be countered by AOE abilitys

[turbid vector]

just characters and if they should block cc or not

[slow tartan]

this is exactly how it should be, i like the way you said it

[wide quartz]

Ohhh. Yes. This is a very specific take.

[fading basin]

or overwatch, you can still keep the people in the grav, but they wont die if theyre in trans or smth like that

[turbid vector]

There is a point

to 'should this be considered a CC, or a physical force moving you?'

Like you may be invulnerable

but you're still getting pulled in by gravity

You can't be stunned, sure

[trail lava]

i think that voids ult should work differently than other ults, like brall shouldnt get CC'ed during his ult to a celeste ult but i think void ult should be an expection

[sterile geode]

I think Void swap is also a very big skill check for voids allies, I had a game durong the Vet test Tuesday where my void was tp-ing out of a fight, and I stood in the landing zone (as KP) and used his escape to get a way in. Void is currently the only character that has something that is that open ended to his allies to play around it as much as him.

[slow tartan]

invulnerable means cc + dmg immune tho and it is a cc when it comes down to it

[turbid vector]

Yeah but should the pull be considered cc?

just a note

[next shadow]

ofc you want joule dash to work

[turbid vector]

that pull is really fucking weak lol

[trail lava]

given the difficulty of landing a void ult on a char like brall i think you shouldnt get punished because the guy presses an ability that doesnt make sense for it to be countered

[slow tartan]

i think it should be considered a cc

[lavish scaffold]

The pull is separate from the stun, no?

[trail lava]

hey i play both hunters so make take can't be biased

[drifting sparrow]

I think the power fantasy of Void's ult is that he is summoning a friggin' black hole, and nothing can get out of it.

[turbid vector]

idk

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Fine you're not cc'd

but.. why are you moving?

or atleast

without being hindered

[forest rivet]

This is the problem with Void right now. VOID is punished for having a supposedly amazing ultimate.

[turbid vector]

this also fucking appleis to KP

why can he just

hook people out of the ult

without the hook taking longer

[trail lava]

i think it only really applies to brall ult/invuln bugs tho

[turbid vector]

he doesn't care about them being fucking pulled into a black hole

he pulls them out like they're milk in a fridge

[next shadow]

which do you love the most

[trail lava]

sorry void mains but joule is my baby

[drifting sparrow]

exactly

[next shadow]

ggs exactly

[turbid vector]

like this is a genuine thing; Void needs to actually

have a pulling force in his ult

I don't know how it's coded

[drifting sparrow]

Ladies and Gentlemen, we got him

[trail lava]

but for me i think joules dash is an Iframe and bralls ult is an invuln and i think those 2 things arent the same thing

[slow tartan]

i like how you guys are cooking but i have to disagree, void ult is just a powerful twofold cc but it is still a cc. but if they want to make void's ult a special case apart from other ccs i would welcome the change cuz it would be fun to play around that challenge for me. but as of now it's just a really good cc

[lavish scaffold]

The threat of Void ult is a good CC.

[trail lava]

iframe means you can't be hit or cc'd in anyway whereas invuln just means you can't take damage. Again its a battlerite/V rising pilled take

[turbid vector]

yea ofc, I just think it should have some actual gravity to it

or whatever

Like if you're cc'd it doesn't really matter

[lavish scaffold]

Void ult itself is, IMO, easy enough to avoid/counter/etc. that the idea of it is more threatening than the actual ability is.

[limber tapir]

I never. would've. guessed..

[drifting sparrow]

I don't want to get into a whole conversation about Joule and iframes on her dash, but it certainly doesn't feel like a different thing from just being invulnerable. Let's just say it is a pretty long iframe to just be an iframe

[turbid vector]

but if you're not because invul, then you should atleast somewhat fight to get out of it

[trail lava]

hey i have more playtime on void than joule still (i think)

[slow tartan]

so are you saying like joule shift should go thru void ult but if you are going up in joule ult invuln and are in void ult then you should get cc'd?

[next shadow]

remove iframes🤓

[turbid vector]

not to mention that'd also just be cool

[sterile geode]

Please

[turbid vector]

Like a KP struggling to pull someone out of void ult?

cinematic stuff.

[trail lava]

yea i think so, i mean in an ideal world i think joule ult should also be an iframe but thats a topic for another day

[slow tartan]

yes give me more iframes

[trail lava]

i just want her ult to work the same as doomfist ult

[turbid vector]

y'know what

just make her invulnerable always

might as well ;P

[drifting sparrow]

We're getting off topic with Joule and iframes

[wide quartz]

I think I just saw remove iframes and more iframes in the same part of chat.

Lol.

[turbid vector]

It's definetly a big topic of debate

[limber tapir]

Sm1 ping me for elluna & shrike

[fading basin]

elluna is up next

[wide quartz]

I’m sure.

[trail lava]

elluna

[turbid vector]

personally i think iframes done right are; When you have to time them correctly to get a good effect

[drifting sparrow]

If elluna is up next, then zeph is up next too
Ya can't talk about one without talking about the other...

[wide quartz]

When did I start this? 10?

[marble granite]

yea

[wide quartz]

Hmm.

[turbid vector]

If they're something you can get repeatedly in a fight, and dodge spells unintentionally.. then.. like.. it's just rough

[next shadow]

elluna up. Good night people. Back to bapbap

[turbid vector]

to play against

[limber tapir]

dude respond to my dms

[drifting sparrow]

gn

[turbid vector]

yup

it's been 2 hours

of void gamin

[trail lava]

he doesnt know you 💀

[wide quartz]

Wow.

[limber tapir]

he responded we're all good

[fading basin]

jess decides when we swap topics though

[turbid vector]

now probably

no?

[wide quartz]

I..will need to step out in a bit. But let’s talk about Elluna some.

[turbid vector]

yup no worries!

[wide quartz]

Forgot to eat dinner last night as I was talking. Then was like. Oh.

Lol.

[thorn sandal]

ellu...

[turbid vector]

yea fair

[limber tapir]

Elluna is overshadowed by oath and zeph. She's really fun, but her level 3s are just stat checks, and all she functions as currently is a rez bot which is super unfun to play against but also, super easy to heal check

[turbid vector]

really we should be sponsoring pizza takeout or something

just as a 'thank you!'

[drifting sparrow]

for real tho

[limber tapir]

Please take care of yourself

[thorn sandal]

i just miss old elluna ult

[wide quartz]

Aw. I’d be down to just eat pizza at the same time as you guys.

[calm basin]

They did kinda fix the biggest issue with elluna (the self slow on Lmb)

[thorn sandal]

she was my first main

[slow tartan]

i was just gonna ask about that. im glad they fixed that

[turbid vector]

you'd have to eat pizza at 9 am, timezones xD

[drifting sparrow]

same bud, same...

[turbid vector]

hahah

[rose hound]

I wasn’t around for her old ult :0 what was it?

[fading basin]

Notes for Elluna:

• All her level 3s are very boring and one dimensional
• She feels like she has lost her identity and is now just floating as a do everything but bad type of character, the only thing she has left is movement
• Ult is unfun to use and play against
• Shes decent now because she got her dmg buffed a tad bit but that doesnt feel like her identity
• MANA AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

[marble granite]

is there a problem with that? 👁️

[limber tapir]

I think some people also don't like the fact that you aboslutely HAVE to run a mana item on her, but I personally don't see an issue with that.

[calm basin]

Now the only issues I have on her are her lvl3 being boring and her ult/passive making her a little boring to fight

[wide quartz]

Gotcha. How much do you think Oath overshadowing is his ability to Dash while LMB charging?

We talked about that a bunch. Curious if it’s related or you’re thinking of something else.

[fading basin]

Oath overshadowing is his ability to just nullify her only value which is the root. She also does so little dmg so doing anything to the shiled is futile. Also he just has a million more actual impact in the fight

[limber tapir]

I think Oath overshadows because he can heal, AND he can shield, and not because he can dash and shoot. He has TWO protective abilities and Elluna has one. Also, Oath has enough damage to stand as his own character, and elluna doesn't do nearly as much damage as either zeph or oath, and she doesn't heal as much as zeph or oath. (Someone fact check me please)

[sterile geode]

I think Elluna is in a really good spot with everything but her ult, her ult right now is very limiting. I personally think her kit overall is much for fun, and freeform compared to Oath and zeph, they just both do the supporting stuff easier then her. Ignoring numbers, cause that's fixable, I think the only major thing to look at for elluna would be adding something to her ult to give her more options. I've allready talk to Tehleach about what I think she should be able to do with her ult outside of healing and reviving, but idk if I'm safe to post that here lol.

[drifting sparrow]

I think the big thing with Elluna being overshadowed by Oath and Zeph is that the only utility she really brings is healing, and you could either go Zeph, who outheals her, or you can go Oath, who heals and provides other utility, i.e. Shield and Ult.

[rose hound]

Oath is everything any character wants to be 😭 and it’s spooky

[thorn sandal]

kinda like ghost ult but it was falling stars that did damage

[limber tapir]

Like if Oath isn't doing so much damage, we have a different story at hand.

[latent gorge]

For Elluna I mentioned yesterday how all her ability upgrades are pretty unsatisifying and the "best" one is her heal but still feels unfun to upgrade into.

[marble granite]

I don't play Elluna but yeah, the only other utility I feel she provides is res safety and nothing else

[turbid vector]

An interesting suggestion I saw, which honestly is pretty logical; let her pick up boxes, but only one and slow her while doing it

[wide quartz]

Interesting. Which one of the abilities for Elluna do you attribute to being uniquely protective?

[turbid vector]

it's a backpack after all

why can't she fit a box?

[sterile geode]

Elluna has her mobility, which is absolutely not something that should be changed, she wins fights by dancing around a combat zone being harder to follow, and having different options for different engagements

[lavish scaffold]

have you seen the death boxes? they're larger than her entire model.

[true condor]

old elluna ult used to be a good defensive peel

[limber tapir]

Elluna can't really prevent anything. Her most "protective" ability is her root. Her other abilites are all to fix mistakes, not to prevent them.

[turbid vector]

true true, but just think of it

stickin out

[thorn sandal]

yep could use it to zone ppl, ult ur team to pickup wisps if needed

[limber tapir]

Oath can stop the damage from ever happening --> Elluna has to let it happen to have value.

[thorn sandal]

good damage

[latent gorge]

What was it? 🤔