Core Keeper University

[inland compass]

Grass wall on a coral bridge for me

[trim kestrel]

I posted a gif the other day:

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977128133142659102/993404669676232784/2022-07-04_Melee_weapons_through_left_hand_walls.gif

It's not crazy OP. But lets one (skill) farm mobs with ranged attacks.

[inland compass]

Yeah if you had a giant mold or higher farm, great for vitality farming

[trim kestrel]

With tentacle (especially), sure. It's the melee and ranged I still need to finish levelling. Because one-shotting all these spawn test mobs gives me no xp, apparently.

I think one could probably get 3 or so mobs within fist range...

[inland compass]

I couldn't get a good ranged setup with a grubzooka

I was only hitting lile 4-5 at a time and you need something like 8+ to match the blowpipe

[trim kestrel]

grubzooka wears out so fast, for AFK skill farming. Need a lot of them. 😕

Oh, have you made the direct comparison? Or done the math? I wondered about vs blow pipe.

[inland compass]

Just mathing.

[trim kestrel]

But that also comes down to if the pipe kills the mobs faster too, right?

[inland compass]

Right, so what i did was made a conveyor loop firing at a line of blue slimes

[trim kestrel]

Like, what's the conditions to get no XP? Is it damage stat based? Or non-fatal hits?

[trim kestrel]

Ah, that's smart actually. Cycle to mobs to let them heal...

[inland compass]

Never killed one with the blowpipe but i didn't run it overnight

[trim kestrel]

They can tank poison, too...? They stronk.

[inland compass]

Yeah i was surprised. But I'm also on hard mode

So on average it is less damage than a tin spike trap which apparently doesn't kill

[trim kestrel]

Mmm. Can anything reliably tank 1 second of hits from the legendary bow?

[inland compass]

I should loop the slimes in the opposite direction so that they get hit even less

[trim kestrel]

One could aim across the corner of a conveyor loop, single tile, so as to hit each mob for the minimum time...

[inland compass]

Hmm so stay still and aim at the very edge

Makes repairs easier

[trim kestrel]

But then, I guess. Once you have the ultimate ranged weapon, is there any real need to skill farm further...?

[inland compass]

Helps with hp, through vitality

Need all the skill points!

[trim kestrel]

Well, I guess that's it ultimatey.

[trim kestrel]

What is the condition (for ranged melee xp? I assume it's as finicky as mining XP, in needing one's damage stat to be between a certain range vs the target...? But there's no sound effects to go off...

[inland compass]

No idea. Probably need to drop a scepter on a fresh character and see if they can 1 shot a slime

[trim kestrel]

Much testing needed. Right...

Lol! CLICK FOR DIRECTIONS YOU IDIOTS! heh.

Could add a refresh map button, pretty please?

And have it zoom back into the same part of the map one was already looking at....? 🥺 😅

[primal rapids]

Could add a refresh map button
what would it do?
And have it zoom back into the same part of the map one was already looking at
if this is a bug report, then yeah, it could be made so that it centers the core only once

[inland compass]

So many people miss it somehow

And i think he wants it to reload the same file and keep the panzoom position

Might be a little tricky since the image dimensions may change between refresh

[trim kestrel]

Reload an updated map. Because usually, now, people are searching along the arcs for bosses or sea cities. And it means clicking through the file selection process each time you want to see if you're off track.

Just a quick reload button would be big, for a start. 😉

[primal rapids]

oh, that's true, didn't think about it

[inland compass]

I'll look into the refresh button

[primal rapids]

with the FileSystem API?

[inland compass]

I'll have to see what it can do

[primal rapids]

I've been thinking about the FileSystem API, because I want what Zero wants too, but I just want it to auto-update on my other monitor

[inland compass]

I'm guessing the browser won't let me reuse the picked file object over and over again

[primal rapids]

nope, not without the new api

firefox and brave devs (for example) consider it a security and privacy risk, chrome devs don't care so it's possible in chrome

[trim kestrel]

Oic. That's very limiting...

[inland compass]

I can always port it to nodejs and have it serve the map image using express, but then you'd have to download something

[primal rapids]

I'm willing to use another browser to have it auto-update 😄

[trim kestrel]

You can't like, copy the directory location to an on-screen text box or something to reuse it? Or is it a permission thing, for accessing files? I should stay out of this...

Anyway. It looks like boulder highlighting doesn't work...?

[primal rapids]

is it old gold or new gold?

[inland compass]

That's the problem, it is a security risk to allow browsers to randomly access your hard drive

[trim kestrel]

k

[inland compass]

Boulders isn't working

On the todo list, check out the link in the legend

It is one of the issues i have on github

Coordinates is the other one

[trim kestrel]

None of the boulders (and no octarine)...Ok, right.

[primal rapids]

ah, alright

mind if I add ruler to the issues?

[inland compass]

Go for it

[trim kestrel]

Ok, i'd not seen that down the bottom right...

[inland compass]

I was thinking of adding it to the bottom left as its own

But that was more effort lol

[trim kestrel]

I was looking in the top left panel first, as thought I'd missed it like the "See Sea POIs"

[primal rapids]

also, if the panning after reload needs fixing, I can do that (and I could look into the filesystem API too if needed)

[trim kestrel]

Did I do it right...? 😬

[inland compass]

yup! much better than Mz's 😄

Mz has like 5 requests in one issue :-p

[primal rapids]

hey, only like 3 I think 😁 want me to split it into different issues?

[inland compass]

lol nah

just reminds me of work when people ask for "1" thing

[trim kestrel]

Thanks. Someone commented on the Steam guide to say the same thing, actually. (Day after I spent 2 hours of focused energy updating all the graphics and art item, etc. 😮‍💨 )

What it looks like it might be, is that copper may appear within the clay caves, but only inside of Ghorm's orbit spawn spot radius. (Anyone with a counter-example?)

At least, it seems extremely rare. So it would be another * note. That I'll just add to the written part of the guide, for now, I think.

Photoshop colour keyed search for copper nodes found just one example, in my world:

[solemn saffron]

@trim kestrel i know i don't get any use from the outer row of root i used them at start of the farm for helping them grow faster, and leaved them there because the road on both side was 5-3 block 😆

[forest lodge]

the second pic I sent you was on the edge by the green wall. I have seen copper in clay frequently, but then again, I thought tin in stone was common too until we talked about it. I'll keep track as I strip mine my clay (I need tin right now anyway) and tell you how many per world I find.

I will also say that copper in dirt is variable, too. One world had 1 node, another had 6 nodes.

[trim kestrel]

That few in dirt...? It looks like I have a dozen left, highlighted on my map. And I've already mined out half a dozen.

And so, maybe copper nodes not limited in position, but just rare in clay. Ok.

Unlike mold vs mold, preliminary result seems to indicate that there is no spawn blocking of lush moss cavelings by a very large accumulation of mold mobs!

Which is possibly quite useful for mob farm design. Suggesting alternating spawn types could increase throughput...

A 5x6 area of stone moss, again, spawned no brutes.

At 5x5, yesterday, it spawned no shamans, either.

So, if one wants to avoid the more problematic mobs, but still farms gems and cogs, then multiple smaller spawn areas may well be very helpful for you.

I don't know when the game considers spawn tile areas join up. If they must be contiguous, or just a certain number within a given radius, for example. Will take a lot of testing to chart the boundary of that! (Help appreciated.)

I was wrong about part of this yesterday: lit floor does block stone moss caveling spawns.

As well as mold and larva. But not orange slimes.

I had missed 1 lit floor tile in a 10x6 area of stone moss, and yet 4 caveling miners spawned (about 1/3 of the expected spawn rate).

So, that makes me wonder about the algorithm. Maybe it doesn't (just) pick a random map tile to try to spawn a mob on. But, more like, looks at a small area to see if there are any spawn surfaces.

Something like this would fit with the no brutes observation.

[primal rapids]

@inland compass I made a fix for the panzoom so that it always stays in the same position regardless of map size, when re-selecting a file. Do you have anything to push before I push? If you didn't want to mess with git conflicts

oof, with zoom in + map size change it doesn't work yet though 😞 EDIT: that's fixed now

[trim kestrel]

Other results:

• Lush moss cavelings do seem to get the 50% spawn rate bonus in the Sea biome (above rate in neutral biome). Like urban caveling do.

• However, stone moss (ruins) cavelings don't seem to get the 50% boost in the sea area (contrary to my expectations). 😕

• Orange slimes only saw a ~20% increased spawn rate in the sea biome (vs neutral). Possibly not statistically significant, but reproduced twice. Unlike purple slimes 2x rate.

• Larva saw a 50% higher spawn rate in clay caves vs ruins. Sea biome rate was too uncertain, but possibly 20% up, like orange slime.

• Mold saw identical spawn rate in the sea area as in neutral biome.

My data collection spreadsheet is here, if anyone wants to go cross eyed with the number grids: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Pv1QbV4y5y6tWrhlpFFx4DCL8P5GhH6MbQkNWm0WLfw/edit?usp=sharing

[primal rapids]

😮 official modding channel

[primal rapids]

let's see if discord allows random zips

@trim kestrel if you want to try and break it ☝️ that's a version of maptool that keeps the pan position when re-selecting the map file (it's the maptool.html, you can open that in browser)

[trim kestrel]

I think it works... I don't have game running though.

[trim kestrel]

Makes sense to keep it in one place.

Although, I'm someone who's been bothered enough to report modded gameplay imagery in the Steam art section (posted without explanation).

[trim kestrel]

Do the colours on this look good to all of you? Before I start in on the BIG ONE.

[iron scarab]

Nothing overshadows anything else for me.

[trim kestrel]

OK. So here's the first full draft of the version 2 cooking cheat sheet(s):

Thoughts? Errors? Nit-picks?

[inland compass]

i just pushed, i only had the github link outstanding

[lilac gale]

These are only the base quality buffs yes?

[trim kestrel]

Yes, or course. Explaining rarity is (going to be) a whole other complex guide section, now I've figured it out. 😮‍💨

Do we think the "notes" section should go under the main sheet, or fits better like this?

[lilac gale]

Your percentages for the master chef with rare and epic are buff increases yes?

The 25 or 50%

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. All stats on food increased by 25% (rare) or 50% (epic). Is that clear?

[lilac gale]

It is, just took me a second

[trim kestrel]

The most notable changes, I've seen here are:

(1) Fish catch chances have been moved closer to the middle of the probability range. Rare fish much more likely to catch.

(2) New crit damage buff from silver dart.

(3) Bloat Oats have huge health regen, making Azure Feather fish redundant (except for potion making).

(4) Golden oats have new (10%) reduce food drain when running buff.

[lilac gale]

The azure do need something else going for them, cause they're definitely not helpful anymore.

And wdym for potion making, am I missing something? Lol

[trim kestrel]

And if anyone fancies fixing a detail in the wikizet page on cooking, for me (as my IP is supposedly blocked), Golden Pinegrapple should have 5 minute duration on melee attack speed buff: https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Cooking

But it seems otherwise up to date (good stuff from that team).

[trim kestrel]

They're used in keen potion, isn't it? Ranged damage boost.

[lilac gale]

Fish are?

Oh so they are

[trim kestrel]

https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Azure_Feather_Fish

[lilac gale]

Literally never made one

TiL

[trim kestrel]

😮 🤯

[lilac gale]

You get them so frequently from cities I never made any lol

And the 30s of buff wasn't ever worthwhile to me

Interesting though that it uses a fish instead of a plant

[trim kestrel]

Mold dungeons?

[lilac gale]

Mold gives them too yea

[trim kestrel]

Oh, both.

[lilac gale]

City pots give them a ton though

Same with every other potion, including the large healing ones

So I've not needed to make pots lol

[inland compass]

here's your buddy spawned next to a bridge

[long dagger]

They have a low chance of spawning in open water, wouldn't be surprising if one spawned by a bridge

[sudden robin]

Has anyone tested if you put normal/mold/acid water in the ocean, will tentacles spawn? (like as a small fishing area)

[unkempt dust]

the normal water in my mega city (which is now my base out there) hasn't had any tentacles spawn in it. It's one of those places where it's a sample of the azeos wilderness. It might be chance that it hasn't spawned tentacles, but it's been a really long time with none

[sudden robin]

Awesome! Thank you so much!

[unkempt dust]

no problem. it's not guaranteed. but it seems likely that it should be fairly safe

[deft pulsar]

tentacle spawned in whirlpool dont attack you 😄

Is conveyor block crab from spawning?

[inland compass]

they do not

[trim kestrel]

Ah, fair enough. Maybe as Frost says. I've personally not had a stone bridge adjacent tentacle in a dozen or so hours of coastal spawn rate testing. So, reduces incidence, but not blocks.

[inland compass]

i just ended up bridging everything over lol

anyone have an updated pixel color list?

[trim kestrel]

Obviously it's not possible to fight/farm Omoroth with a decorative build on their spawn, right?

Is it even possible to kill him so fast that the tentacles don't ever spawn?

[inland compass]

i don't think they spawn with the cheese spot

[deft pulsar]

yeh, this is for the mob farm dsign only. if i needto fight the boss agai, there is another world for it

[trim kestrel]

Oh, that's a good point...

I'm wondering how many urban moss spawns it'd take to spawn kill him before his tornados decimate their numbers.

[inland compass]

boulder highlight added if you didn't see

[long dagger]

I've been slowly working on the perimeter, got a friend to help out luckily

[trim kestrel]

I mean, they hit pretty hard and fast... 😆

But if they they only do just over 100 damage each, per volley, to Omoroth, gonna need 1000 of them... 😶 Or maybe 500 would be enough to chunk him straight to half health and stagger him. (Assuming they agro.) Wonder if Mz's been looking at this?

[inland compass]

ah non hardmode mobs, how i miss thee

[long dagger]

removed the obsidian ground patches

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, that's a lot of work! And at the end of it, you have nothing to show for it...! 😜 😅

[trim kestrel]

This is great, thank you! Very powerful feature imho.

Are large jellyfish minable...?! 😜 Just happen to be of the same 2x2 feature, right?

More to the point, will this tool wrongly identify 2x2 clumps of ore (walls) as a boulder?

[inland compass]

yes it will identify 2x2 clumps of ore as a boulder

[long dagger]

🥲

[inland compass]

I added the large jellyfish, i thought someone mentioned they dropped something

so i figured why not

[trim kestrel]

Because it looks like I did far worst and erred majorly, yesterday, in identifying all copper ore as boulders. With my crude photoshop trick.

Sorry, @forest lodge. I have only a couple of copper nodes left in my dirt biome. So, less than a dozen originally. (Still only one in clay. But this map tool feature is a quick way to highlight counter-examples, now. Heh.)

[trim kestrel]

It will confuse users, having them listed under "boulders", though. 🤷

[inland compass]

tough!

put a few drills on those jellyfish

[trim kestrel]

I will! 😆

So, did you manage to get automatic map updating working too?! 😮

(As well as map re-centring.)

How'd you accomplish that, then?

[inland compass]

so my mob farm got broken last night, something killed my first few tentacles then the brutes started attacking and breaking

took forever to get the tentacles to spawn in the right place and get everything up and running

working on the auto updating now

Mz did some updates to the zoom/pan stuff last night

[trim kestrel]

Oh, what does the "monitor map" button currently do?

[inland compass]

asks for a file

😄

then probably throws a few dozen javascript errors

[trim kestrel]

Ah. So 'nothing', right now. Cool.

[inland compass]

i just have the file transfer tool syncing with my local directory

so as i'm coding it updates the files on the server

[trim kestrel]

Prototyping straight to live?!

[inland compass]

code dangerously! debug on live

well F me

worked on the first shot

that almost never happens lol, give the monitor a test

takes 10 seconds to load first, going to fix that now

[gusty epoch]

Wait you actually get to live?

I just stay in Debug, it's cozy and warm

[inland compass]

lol

i even have a github and issues!

https://github.com/craigins/CoreKeeperMapTool/issues

[gusty epoch]

Neat, I don't even know how to use git 🤣

[inland compass]

I can barely use it, Mz and I coordinate so that we don't have conflicts

[gusty epoch]

I've been meaning to selfhost a git thingy and then learn it but time

and also I moved and left a ton of stuff behind lol

[inland compass]

i've just heard horror stories of branch merges going horribly wrong and breaking everything

one of these days i need to go through the nginx log and see how many hits my site actually gets

[gusty epoch]

Would be cool to see

[steep pagoda]

thanks, I've fixed it

I only ban people who insert gibberish or vandalize 🤔 do you mind telling me in DM your IP so I can check?

[trim kestrel]

Ohai. So you're a regular wiki editor? Hello. 👋

The IP it's stating isn't even mine. (And I didn't think I was using a VPN or anything with FIreFox.)

Hang on a sec...

[primal rapids]

yay \o/ now if only the devs made it flush to disk every time it flushes the world/worldinfo files

[inland compass]

Just have to hit m every so often

[primal rapids]

by the way, if you're still looking for the colors, I got them last time by searching for TileTypeColorTable in unity explorer's object search, I copied them by hand because I suck, but you might be able to write a mod that just lists them for you

I think I went through TileTypeColorTable.tileSetColors

[forest lodge]

@trim kestrel If you want me to, I can track what nodes on which biome (according to the map view) and how many as I do the rest of my worlds. I have 3 that are untouched in mining so far.

[trim kestrel]

By all means, take a quick grab of your (explored) map(s), with specific nodes highlighted. And post here. But unless you spot a radical departure from "copper is rarely found in the clay biome", then don't worry. Thanks. 👍

[forest lodge]

kk

[trim kestrel]

OK, I've updated my Cooking cheat sheets guide with the new graphics and tweaked all the wording: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2797638499

I still want to add a more nuanced (a very involved) graphic to explain the golden veg rarity interaction better, though...

[trim kestrel]

Nice @deft pulsar - so what mobs are you killing with the crabs? And are you finding them efficient and stable? #📷-ck-media message

[deft pulsar]

one of each, so far so good but you need to prime the crabs first. about 4 would be sustantable since they can kill mobs almost instantly and have sometime to heal/regen

been 1 day and all good. if some accidently die. the crab will be able to respawn and refill

1 strip of mold to take the damages from range attack. work as the shield

[trim kestrel]

Fair enough. They don't kill slimes, though, right? (Or mushroom dudes, what about larva?)

[deft pulsar]

havent build them yet but slime are easy can be kill by spike

[trim kestrel]

Oic. Operation mold distraction. Heh.

[deft pulsar]

yeh and sometime stunt

this 2 sentries stunt 90% of mob passing by them

[trim kestrel]

Right. But you don't rely on the perma-stun bug, like craigins. 🙂

[deft pulsar]

no, they work good even without any stunt

the mold also draw bubble to them and work as constant reloading for the crab as well. but sometime they all die 😄 luckily they spawn very fast so that is not much of issue yet

[winged knot]

So, coral grows faster than normal wood it seems.

or maybe normal wood is reduced when grown together?

[bitter viper]

whats that

[gusty epoch]

A bug

[trim kestrel]

I thought it was the same, but no measured it directly. What do your farm builds look like?

[winged knot]

exactly the same, just mirrored.

[trim kestrel]

I don't seem to be getting automatic updating (with Firefox, at least). Map reloads to same position, though.

Works in Chrome, miraculously fast.

[trim kestrel]

Oh. Ok. So did you empty both of their storage at the same time, then come back and...? What were the scores on the doors?

[winged knot]

I haven't measured it directly, but the coral one was finished last, and then finished it's chest first. though maybe I should do an exact study for it.

[trim kestrel]

There has been a bug where some of the stumps will just stop growing, seemingly. I don't think that's been fixed. (Certainly no patch notes on it.)

[inland compass]

Chrome or edge only

[rich belfry]

Im about to do a test of the wood per hour for my farm. its small, only 1 row for coral planks, 1 row for coral wood, 1 for normal wood and 1 for wooden planks. But I am curious how much it produces

this is my farm. its off right now. I removed all the power so I could prep for the test.

Im going to wait for all the spots to fill, so that they all break at once and all the wood is on a fresh timer

[winged knot]

that can also change the outcome because iirc wood all connected like mine, vs separated like yours behave differently.

[rich belfry]

Im curious to see how the different designs compare too. which is more efficient. separated or connected

[winged knot]

iirc connected is, because it increases the random tick chance for them to grow and the number of ends it can grow from.

[rich belfry]

I know a lot of you guys have been doing a lot more testing than I have

[winged knot]

I have been working more on this tbh lmfao

[rich belfry]

wow what are you doing here?

[winged knot]

to which, this is what it looks like zoomed in.

[trim kestrel]

Ohh... I thought you'd done some code magik. 😞 😅

[winged knot]

gridding off the map at half screen distances. lol

[rich belfry]

ok thats neat. for what purpose?

whats your goal?

[winged knot]

to reveal/ let me rebuild the map, and to just geo it all off.

it is purely just to help me build mega structures etc..

[rich belfry]

ok. sounds fun

do you have any mega structures in mind?

[trim kestrel]

That was in 0.3, to a greater extent; each stump can only grow in one place at a time, now.

But I think they benefit from having two places, or stump sides (not sure) to grow, because they have 2 internal timers that can't share the same spot, now.

[trim kestrel]

Yes. Let us know. Like-for like, whether yoiu see a difference between coral and wood.

[winged knot]

So connected farms are not good now or?

or each stump has it's own timer to grow?

[inland compass]

Only other way is to make it a downloaded application. Which essentially wraps chromium.

[rich belfry]

I'll definitely let you know how it goes Zero

[rancid tiger]

Anyone figured out optimal craftingworkstation setup yet?

[rich belfry]

this is my setup

[rancid tiger]

Neat and tidy

[rich belfry]

this is inside the chest

I swap out the repair bench with other benches when I want to craft something else

so I dont have to move the items. just the table

my crafting room is my oldest building. I've replaced the walls and rearranged a few times, but those floors are the first ones I placed. 😛

[rich belfry]

after 1 hour: 90 wood. 95 coral wood. 183 planks. 243 coral planks.

The farm had 9 wood spots, 9 coral spots, 19 planks and 19 coral planks spots

[trim kestrel]

No worries... #JustUseChrome

[trim kestrel]

The connect farm design you're using is still about as good as it gets, not far off. Rules just changed subtly + bugs confuse thing, we think.

[trim kestrel]

There's definitely not one design. It depends how you work, what stage of the game you're at and how much of each thing you do.

This is mine, where I can come back, dump all my stuff from where-ever, repair my gear, craft pretty much anything without grabbing resources.

Moved my anvils into archive storage, cos there no use after initial crafting, etc.

NPCs on hand to buy/sell.

I Kinda setup my cooking pots hoping devs would add pulling from chests to them, too. (By clicking dishes, I guess...)

[rancid tiger]

This is my current setup, still farming more chests and fixing the lights

[rancid tiger]

Copied this because it seemed to fit and works for me

Golden chests on the right works as dump chest. Just put everything there and the sorter on the left will handle it

either golden chest works since it loops on behind walls further to left

all hidden in the darkness

i wish workbenches would work diagonally from chests too

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, it's awkward having just one workbench on the ends, which is why I ditched mine. To walk around more smoothly.

Where do you cook?

[rancid tiger]

i will have designated farming area to right of portal with house for one of the npc's and "kitchen". Since you usually never do any of the cooking one by one everytime you visit base, you do them in bulks

[rich belfry]

I love the side room you have for smelting

[rancid tiger]

Most of the ores are already smelted anyways so no need for anything bigger or fancy 😄

Something like this

[trim kestrel]

It depends how indecisive experimental one is with deciding what dishes they are cooking... (And potions and baits need some of the foods, too.)

.
Does anyone happen to be able to (png) screenshot an "***Epic *Hearty Tulip Salad" for me, please? For an info-graphic I'm making.

As a single item in an inventory slot (without pointer over it) and the whole of the description listing the buffs too. (So 2 pics, I guess.) 🙂

Edit: wait... I'm thinking there's 2 different types of "Epic Hearty Tulip Salad"... And seing both would be half the point.... 😵‍💫 (So don't worry about it., I guess)

[rancid tiger]

Sure, that's why i have the storage sorter on the left to have some food there always if i really want/need something to make quick, just not big bulks how it normally goes.

is there a way to speed up Azeos/Awakened Azeos respawn?
Save and quitting doesnt seem to do anything

[trim kestrel]

You just have to wait out the 10 minutes, regardless. (And the 2 after that is it, still?)

[rancid tiger]

respawn is 5mins or so it feels like, havent actually timed it. also rip, got 15 golden eggs to go through

[trim kestrel]

Time to get fishy! Or, I suppose, do anything else, if you have teleporters...

So, I did some spawn rate testing for a couple hours in the dirt biome near the core (while I was farming and cooking and stuff)...

• Urban moss cavelings had the exact same spawn rate as in the neutral biome near the sea (50% higher in the sea). But...

• Purple slimes had the same spawn rate as they did in the wilderness or sea, which is consistently double what I measured in the neutral biome near the outer biomes.

• Orange Slimes had half the spawn rate of sea and neutral near the sea. Which might warrant a repeat check. Although, it makes sense to me that it would be low near the core, because of them being there early game.

• Stone moss cavelings had over 50% higher spawn rate than in either sea or ruins biomes. They went a bit bananas with miners, for some reason. But no brutes. Which I think's just luck, cos I had one near the core before. 😵‍💫

In other tests I was AFK, so I might try repeating these while standing still, tomorrow.

[crisp goblet]

As someone who missed the event, I'd gladly take one (or more) of those off your hands 😉

[inland compass]

do mold tentacles need at least a 5x5 to spawn?

i have one section that refuses to spawn a tentacle 😦

[long dagger]

There needs to be enough mold ground around and they can still spawn in an isolated 1x1 section if enough mold ground is present

[inland compass]

soo annoying, over 12 hours and they haven't spawned on like a 12x4 strip, i keep clearing it of mold boys

[inland compass]

sea tentacles in mold water in sea biome?

or just part of prefab spawn?

[deft pulsar]

kill them and try to afk for few hours ( block yourself with walls and left overnight)

[deft pulsar]

they spawn on my 2blocks wide strip

[inland compass]

More sprinkler data points

[lilac gale]

This is prefabbed this way, but I haven't taken the time to test if they spawn in any water type within the biome or solely sea water

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, i've had mold tentacle spawn onto a single tile of mold ground, too. In a grid of disconnected tiles.

I'm definitely thinking spawn algorythm looks at tile types in a (small) area before deciding exactly what to (or if) to spawn.

[trim kestrel]

Ha! So that's sea water just the other side of the wall, there?

[inland compass]

Mold water in a prefab room in a city

[trim kestrel]

Oh, is that a sea dungeon? Ah.

[inland compass]

Just weird that they'd spawn them in like that

[trim kestrel]

Fun.

[trim kestrel]

Kinda amazed devs not patched this yet. My report went in weeks ago. I'm assuming programmer's on holiday ir something...

[inland compass]

May not be an easy fix, and it can take time to reproduce

[gusty epoch]

They probably have a hotfix release date scheduled. Fix everything that pops up until then and then ship

plus the testing to make sure it works

[lilac gale]

If most of the developers are Sweden based, they take this entire month off for holiday. At least the dev team for another game I play whom are based out of Sweden do this lol

If they are mostly based from there I wouldn't be surprised if this is the case

It does appear that the company is based out of Sweden based off a short Google search

[trim kestrel]

Ah, thanks, didn't know it was a cultural thing. Just thought they'd been crunching updates for many months and now it's holiday season. Northern Europeans gotta jump in that sunshine, when it comes, eh!

[lilac gale]

Yep yep lol

[deft pulsar]

it seem to be the case. Just did a quick google search and it seem that they really take the whole July off for summer holliday 😦

[gusty epoch]

wth I would love that lmao

[trim kestrel]

Oh, this seems like quite clever tailoring of a drop collector build to a mob AI's behaviour: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2827262528

[solemn saffron]

sadly i think will not work with all mob type, but would be cool if it did.

[trim kestrel]

Lol. No chance. It's super-focused on the slime AI. But that's 3 mob types right there...

Maybe one could come up with similar tricks tailored to each mob AI. Then sort the mobs into those killing areas.

E.g. Someone on the Reddit (I think yesterday) mentioned starting cavelings off with a tile of blue slime, so they can't help but slid through a series of spikes. I've not tested that myself yet.

[solemn saffron]

hmm i need to try it (the blue slime tile)

[trim kestrel]

I just went back and did the maths on this inter-mob spawn blocking range test...

Not only did the infected ~100 cavelings not block any lush moss cavelings spawning in this adjacent series of eight 1x10 tile slots... Their (per tile) spawn rate was actually higher than in the wilderness!

Lush moss in Wilderness or Sea is ~50% more than in nearby neutral biome. These slots (in the ruins) were ~100% faster.

So, needs a bunch more testing. But I'm thinking divided spawn surfaces could be substantially more effective for maximising per-tile mob output. 🤔

[trim kestrel]

With stone moss cavelings in the core dirt biome, horizontal stripes of spawn surface produces only miners (no shamans or problematic brutes at all)! Perfect for farming cogs, gems & shards.

And this gives a per-moss tile spawn rate ~250% higher than solid covered 10x10s in ruins or sea biome! Not quite double my dirt inner biome rate with blanket coverage. So that probably still gives a marginal advantage if space efficiency is the only consideration.

Vertical stripes seems to give proportionately more shamans and brutes than normal, but had a lousy overall rate of just over 1/3 that of horizontal (1 tile wide) stripes. About the same per-moss-tile rate as blanket coverage in ruins/sea.

I'm swapping which chamber has which stripe pattern, for the repeat test.

Urban moss in a 1-tile chequer board pattern had the same per-tile spawn rate. (A consistent 8 mobs per hour per 100 tiles, in dirt.)

[long dagger]

I think cavelings and infected cavelings spawn in groups, prob y they spawn faster

Blocking out shamans and brutes would prob increase it a whole lot more for better farming for cogs and crystals

[trim kestrel]

This is very optimal for that, yeah.

[trim kestrel]

There's definitely group spawning, yeah. If the spawn surface pattern choses the type, grouping & number of mobs, then that could explain this.

But I need to run a mob-by-mob timing analysis, to see what the spawning pattern is. Like I did with roots. See if there's a consistent cadence. I've got a bunch of these recorded. So it could just be data crunching (which is very time consuming).

[trim kestrel]

Horizontally striping orange slime with pink doubled the per-tile spawn rate of the orange. While only slightly decreasing that of pink. (In dirt biome near core.)

So, alternating compatible mob types may be very promising for a combination of space and per-tile efficiency.

[long dagger]

decided to hire ghorm for removing some obsidian walls

sadly the agro is short

[floral tendon]

@trim kestrel have you tested anything related to the cavelings' "backup" or "raiding party" mechanic?

I've seen some funny behaviors lately, like a dozen different cavelings spawning suddenly on a single tile on screen with no spawner tiles

as well as some of my turret scholars getting "stolen"

[long dagger]

They prob changed where raiding parties can spawn, I'm guessing the cavelings that spawned in the void/water were originally from them

[proper coral]

any linux nerds know the default path for saves?

[ripe lily]

found it ~/.var/app/com.valvesoftware.Steam/.local/share/Steam/userdata/<steam_id>/1621690/remote/worlds

[lilac gale]

Might add this to your directions @inland compass

You react as I @ mb 🙃

[inland compass]

I'll add it to the todo

[lilac gale]

Ok I disappear now, the drinks are getting to me and I'm sleepy. Have a good rest of the day y'all ✌️

[ripe lily]

i can't guarantee that that is the correct route for all linux distros and all steam installs but that was it for the default steam app on Fedora 36

[proper coral]

this path doesnt exist for me lmao

ubuntu 20.04 iirc

[ripe lily]

go to steam

go to the library

[proper coral]

local files?

[ripe lily]

the actual app

[proper coral]

right

[ripe lily]

go settings > manage > browse local files

[proper coral]

i tried steam > core keeper > properties > local files

there dont appear to be any saves there though

[ripe lily]

then go up 3 levels to Steam

then go userdata

then your steam id something like 429153567

then go to /1621690/remote/worlds

[proper coral]

1621690?

ahhh nice

so for me

[ripe lily]

1621690 should be the steam game id code

i think

might be different for different people

[proper coral]

.steam/steam/userdata/<user-id>/1621690/remote
or
.local/share/steam/userdata/<user-id>/1621690/remote

it is the id code, i saw that number earlier but just couldnt find the user data

nicely done and thank you!

[ripe lily]

no worries

[proper coral]

@inland compass ubuntu path

[inland compass]

In the home dir?

[proper coral]

yeah

[trim kestrel]

Maaan... I wish I had a large maze. 😮‍💨

[long dagger]

It didn't spawn for u in ur stone biome?

If not then it'll prob spawn in the wilderness

[trim kestrel]

I saw a caveling randomly appear on a stone bridge in front of me (in ruins).

My assumption (having checked they don't naturally spawn on this surface) is that it got teleported.

Lot of different mob types vanishing and changing and turning up in weird places, since 0.4. reported as bug(s).

[trim kestrel]

Indirectly. Every time I clear out a ruins natural spawn area I get a raiding party appear and chase me. Never any other time.

I've started thinking of them as the Caveling Avengers. Out for vengeance, after a genocide. I've never seen a bigger party than 3 miners 1 shaman, though. So maybe I don't kill as many as Frost, yet.

Yesterday, I had one spawn, I think, from a stone moss spawn chamber, and follow me to a larva spawn chamber, across a route of bridged collection conveyors that I'd not sealed off behind me.

Never usually haopens, with clearing the test spawns, because I seal off their route from the spawn chambers straight afterwards. Like, they can't spawn just anywhere.

[trim kestrel]

I'm skeptical. Haven't players seen other mob types floating in the void, too? (Although, mostly stone cavelings, come to think of it.)

I'd assume general mob teleportation glitch, first. But maybe.

I've not seen much of that, at all, since I figured out mobs getting deposited off the ends of (distant) conveyors.

[trim kestrel]

I mean, I've explored all of stone and a bit swathe of wilderness, but not yet.

[long dagger]

I think I've only seen stone mobs in the void, I can't recall seeing anyone else sharing pics of other mobs there

[long dagger]

About that caveling, was it far enough where it shouldn't have agro but it chased u anyway?

[trim kestrel]

I don't recall it chasing. I think I may have been walled. I forget.

[trim kestrel]

It's all cavelings, as least (e.g. farmers, too): #📷-ck-media message

[floral tendon]

it's pretty bizarre

i've seen a group of shamans, scholars, and moldings expand out from a single tile right in front of my face

this is in the clay biome too

so nowhere near any natural spawn biome

[trim kestrel]

Oh, and remember seeing a crab swimming too, I think. (Should dig for a screenshot, but i have a lot and won't be able to tell from thumbnail.) But i'be seen less of that weirdness, lately, as I say.

[trim kestrel]

From the end of a conveyor? (I always get this.)

[floral tendon]

hmmm possibly

there were none left though

so it's not like they were stuck on a single spot

they just appeared

i had just cleared out all the mobs there

later i checked my scholar platform and they were all gone save for a couple 🥲

[long dagger]

Does anyone know if they spawn back in the void/water after the area has been loaded once again

[trim kestrel]

If conveyor is long, or rather, goes beyond load-in range, the mobs are treated a items, so can be deposited into a void tile, or into a wall.

But then, someone posted a pic of a huge swarm of crabs, a couple weeks back (on reddit?) that I doubt was conveyor related.

[floral tendon]

yeah i know about the former

i've been struggling with that behavior for months 🥲

and it's only gotten worse

but yeah, it wasn't that this time, cause there was plenty of perfectly valid space

[trim kestrel]

Months...? I thought this was since the infinite range automation update in 0.4.... 😵‍💫

[floral tendon]

that's when it got worse lol

it's related to the old behavior of mobs teleporting thru stuff

[trim kestrel]

They'll jump over one tile, if stranded.

[floral tendon]

i don't think stranded, but if it's crowded

[trim kestrel]

And, i guess the conveyors kinda already went over 200 tiles, a bit, sonetimes. From @primal rapids's testing. So makes sense that it happened before 0.4. Before I was messing about with kobs on conveyors, really.

[floral tendon]

nowadays even wild mobs will just teleport thru fences 😔

[trim kestrel]

Hmm... True. 🤔

[floral tendon]

no conveyor setup, just maybe a gate

makes them mighty useless now

[trim kestrel]

There's also the bug with closed doors and gates losing their collider, once off screen for a bit.

[floral tendon]

ah yeah

i wonder if that's related

but anyway that's a separate issue, i was mainly wondering if you'd observed weird caveling group spawns during your testing

mob mechanics are such a headache in this game lol

[trim kestrel]

Not really. To summarise.

[long dagger]

It's odd, I don't think conveyors have much of an effect, atleast not for them spawning in walls which I found happen a few times

[trim kestrel]

They're not worst than the crafting bugs in terratech, though. Heh. (Which have never been fixed, years later!)

[long dagger]

My mob farm has moldlings phase through over the void but the cavelings sit still on their side since it's blocked off

Walled off*

[floral tendon]

they definitely do, trying to push drops into a gap tile is a pretty bad idea now

especially since i have a suspicion that mobs don't correctly fight each other off screen

[long dagger]

I don't have the conveyors pushing them directly into a wall or void tho

Just into a 2 by 3 spike pile

Then walls/void

[floral tendon]

yeah generally those are fine

but it's hard to automate pickups

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, cos this: #977128133142659102 message

[long dagger]

Would be bad if they did, need items to despawn atleast

[trim kestrel]

How far off screen?

[floral tendon]

yeah pain lmao

it's so bad now

[floral tendon]

uhhh not sure really. they definitely do something, but there's no reasonable way that shamans are sneaking past 30 crabs

something is being shortcut or optimized away

had a thought maybe the "raiding party" mechanic happens for other mob kills too, so they're being teleported past the kill room

[trim kestrel]

Past 200 tiles from you, they all become inert items (on conveyors).

But, in my spike trap loading range test, hunters were still agro-ing (on the trap and shooting from 105 tiles away.

[floral tendon]

yeah but the crabs aren't on conveyers

[trim kestrel]

Nor the shamans?

[floral tendon]

the shamans are

along with the other cavelings anyway

[trim kestrel]

I mean, we've all seen the carnage left over from cavelings going ham vs slimes. Out of sight. So fights should work...

The only optimisation I know for sure is no rendering, off screen.

It would make a lot of sense if physics collisions were turned down, in fidelity. But I'm not sure there's good evidence of that, even...?

[floral tendon]

yeah that's why i'm confused

something happens for sure

i just can't figure out why it's leaking

it wouldn't even be that big a problem if brutes didn't blow up everything 😂

[long dagger]

I found a brute and 2/3 cavelings in a wide void area, there's no conveyors nor mobs to make them move there by any chance, they weren't grouped but spaced by about 2 tiles from eachother

There may be more causes for this

Which adds more confusion

Would be nice if they find the cause and fix it

[trim kestrel]

The mob teleport is maybe random and defies clear explanation. But could be triggered, or just coincide with, those mobs having been glitch stacked by conveyors, elsewhere. Is my thinking.

[solemn saffron]

I would like to be able to collect and filter objects from the farm but I can't because the game treats mobs as objects and so if I go further than even a chunk, ☹️ the whole sorting system is destroyed, the only solution is to get them with the magnet ring and store them by hand.

[long dagger]

Items can be grabbed with m arms while they fly towards the player but won't work if it's pulsed, prob best to just fill ur inv, set a keybind for dropping item to world and have a script for holding that button and clicking on an item slot

To make it even more simple for the script, u could bind a keybind on the mouse for dropping items, hold that button then power off ur mouse and it may work for keeping it on, then just have the script click every second or less

[trim kestrel]

Could you demonstrate that trick for me please? I think I had a go, a while back, and didn't get it to work.

[long dagger]

M arms grabbing items flying at the player?

I don't think it got removed after the 0.4 update but it won't work with the arm getting pulsed

Unless if it's on for a few tics longer then maybe

I'll get on in prob 20 min

[trim kestrel]

OK. Thanks. 🙂

[solemn saffron]

nice idea didn't think about it thank you.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, I didn't realise that large larva attack (orange) slimes. But small don't. I kinda thought Ghorm united the clans, as king of both...

[long dagger]

I think they removed it 😕

i found out about it prob from my wood farm back then since id run into items then past the arm and it would grab one when it flew at me

[trim kestrel]

Ok, cool. Shame. Maybe they considered it unintended and more likely to be annoying for most cases (of didn't even notice, with the automation optimisations).

[proper coral]

i want to start building a large permanent mob grinder. i have been scanning this discord about the mechanics but there's a lot going on here. any suggestions on a design that ill be happy with?

just normal mode first world of core keeper

oh to be clear ive got 999 stacks of all ores etc, beat up through azeos

[long dagger]

For an efficient design (based off what I think) the farm doesn't need to be big, just a perimeter needs to be made to prevent nearby spawns so the spawn cap doesn't get filled outside the farm

[proper coral]

true so if i were to clear out a radius of 215 and build all my farms in there, that would be all the spawns if standing in the center?

[long dagger]

Im not certain since I don't think it's been tested to that extent. Even tho @trim kestrel tested many things I don't think he set a perimeter up

[inland compass]

i thought he wasn't sold on spawn caps yet

[long dagger]

I think he set it for spawn range

But there definitely is some large range spawn cap going on

Prob won't be easy to figure out

[proper coral]

oh wait radius 215 lmao

thats a huge circle

[long dagger]

A perimeter should still help

[long dagger]

Ye

I'm clearing out my stone biome

[proper coral]

phew

[long dagger]

May do the clay biome as well, that one would be quicker since it's not the ground tiles that spawn but the shell thing instead which I can't remember the name of

Plus u can just till it with a 3x3 scarlet hoe

[inland compass]

yeah you can use the map tool and do a user defined radius of 215 if you are building around the core

[proper coral]

good way to increase mining skill i guess lol

[trim kestrel]

I'm definitely coming down on the side of not doing this. I think it would be an enormous waste of time for most players. Sorry. 😅

The spawn rates I've measured have been far too consistent, across too many settings for long range 'mob caps' to be a factor affecting small to modestly big farms.

I don't know if it could become a thing, when your farm is big enough to have multiple thousands of mobs alive in it simultaneously... If you can show some change of throughput, in your mega-farm, I'd be curious, Frost. 🙂

[proper coral]

id love to see that yeah but i cant see myself undertaking such a big project either

[long dagger]

Depends on the mobs being farmed and the size of the farm. Having caveling in a large area isn't efficient since they can casually run against the conveyors but it would be nice to have a farm them. I think the mobs should die quickly (how quick, idk) to have the spawns be consistent and fast

[trim kestrel]

My initial tests, months ago, attempted to shut out all other mob spawns. I set up a couple of 100 tile mold spawners and a few orange slime chambers, at the far side of the stone biome, against the obsidian outer area. And with the ruins or lit up, nothing was spawning there either. It was dead. But no magic happened. Standard slow kinda spawn rate.

[long dagger]

I could perhaps share my world file afterwards but I'd be leaving some things like the wood farm

[trim kestrel]

In principle you want to kill mobs quick. But spawn rate is so slow that conveyor travel out of the area is not a significant delaying factor. Or slow spike trap killing, even. Provided they do die.

Mobs only seem to block spawns from their own spawn surface type. So alternating them should reduce blocking.

And blocking has only been over ~10 tiles or so range, that I've definitely seen so far. So using a trunk and branch conveyor system, that clears the spawn areas quickly, should be best. Rather than big linear sheets, where the furthest mobs are constantly travelling across the inner spawn areas, slowing them down.

[long dagger]

That makes sense but I'm very certain there's a spawn cap of a large distance. I noticed cavelings and city mobs stopped spawning in my little test cubed but shroom mobs, poison and blue slime still spawned once in a while. Before I had any spawn, they were spawning extremely slow till I cleared out my mob farm and the stone biome

[trim kestrel]

But there seems to be some major scope for ~2x rate optimisations in which biome you locate each type of spawner.

And some interesting things with the patterns of the spawn surface, and maybe the ground type underneath, that I'm currently testing.

I may have been wrong yesterday, about it purely being horizontal stripes of stone moss vs vertical accounting for the difference in caveling types and rates. Swapping the patterns between the chambers, today, saw the same chamber producing the faster spawn rate, with mostly cavelings. Despite switching to the vertical stripes.

[long dagger]

I'm curious if the spawning is truly slow if there's very few spawn spots. Perhaps having them spawn on a few tiles while surrounded by void over 200 tiles around it

Idk if void affects the way it tries to spawn compared to a wall or non spawn block

Prob won't differ

[trim kestrel]

OK, that's interesting. If you're being somewhat thorough with assessing when spawns in the test start are definitely stopping. (Like I measure over an hour, at least.) Maybe there's a higher cap-per-mob-type limit that I've not reached yet. Despite 1k plus total mobs of different types...

[proper coral]

what design gave you these results

[trim kestrel]

I've talked about my results above, daily for the last week or so (but I'm working towards a write-up, if I get a consistent, complete picture of what's happening).

Mostly 10x10 chambers on stone brides with conveyors pulling the mobs out to at least 20 tiles away. Setting them up in all different biomes.

[long dagger]

U test things very thoroughly which we all appreciate but I don't have the energy for that 😅
About the spawn cube I set up, I can say for certain they didn't spawn more than 3-5 per mob type usually till after I cleared a ton of mobs in and around my main mob farm and decided to check back like usual

I've checked it often when going around the map which might not sound accurate but it was sometimes even an hour or more at a time that resulted in few spawns till I cleared the other mobs.

[proper coral]

honestly i might clear out my core

if i do ill come back and start helping lol

[long dagger]

I just realized, my cube mob farm for testing still kept producing constant spawns of slimes since they'd die to spikes quickly, u mentioned slow spawns which makes more sense to me now based off what I saw and just mentioned. ig having multiple rooms like u said may help a lot while making sure the large range mob cap isn't reached.

Slow and seperate mob type spawns

[solemn saffron]

hmm i can say that after adding more "spawn moss" the rate of spawn increased by alot and the mob constant

[long dagger]

U could set decently sized squares around and away from the core with most mob types in each one while spreading them for most efficient spawns if the mob cap isn't reached and if they die quickly enough. You've kinda already been doing that but without a perfect perimeter but in smaller scale

Did anyone test the moss stacking had an effect on spawns? Pretty sure someone mentioned it but I prob missed the results

[long dagger]

By spread I mean the cube mob farms

The cubes with them inside

I'm tired, don't mind the text if I failed to explain it properly

[trim kestrel]

Sorry, will come back to mobs spawning...

What do we think of this info-graphic example, does it make sense?:

[lilac gale]

Zero do you want cooking xp to be able to use master chef for your sheets?

I had a bunch of food cooking for the eventuality my friends and I started playing again and they wanted cooking xp, but honestly I'd just give them to you if you wanted the xp for the procs

[solemn saffron]

https://imgur.com/a/vS57V7S my farm Right now. I need to add more ground and a sorting system. when i end it can try to see the loot in 1H.

[trim kestrel]

Thanks. I don't know. I'd been resisting taking anything at all from outside of my one world... 🤔

[lilac gale]

Up to you

[trim kestrel]

Nice show and tell. 🙂

[lilac gale]

@trim kestrel possibly a more compact self-kill trap..? I haven't tried to test for consistency it just happened.

[trim kestrel]

Sure. You can just block all 8 jump-back tiles with blocks.

That's a good point, actually. That would be, by far, the easiest method, very early game, to recall to the core for free. No need for fences or doors. 👍 🙂

[lilac gale]

I'm just surprised it didn't try to push me to the open tile to the right

[trim kestrel]

New system, new logic, out with hoiking through walls, in with rewinding through time. 🤷

[inland compass]

i did this so many times building my mob farm

lol

[trim kestrel]

Right. So you're saying that you never seemed to hit a hard limit, on the rate of mobs you were getting? More spawn surface always meant more mobs coming in? Right up to filling the max range with farms in ever direction.

Have you tried counting the mobs (of one specific type) coming in? Say over the course of 5 or 10 minutes. To give a solid estimate of rate. In conjunction with the dimensions of that spawn area.

Is it a fairly constant flow? Or does it get noticeably faster and slower?

[solemn saffron]

Faster or slower for kind if i move inside the spawning zone to change things, or if i move using the teleport, the mob are out of the range and become like object, so I go back and in the kill zone I find a large group of mobs.

I never counted them but when changing tings arround if i closed some room the mobs start accumulate really fast.

What I could do is try to duplicate the map and gradually decrease the size and make comparisons but for now I am not at that point to be able to do it.

[trim kestrel]

OK. I'd be interested just to see you film the incoming conveyor for 10 minutes (afk in the middle), to get a very rough idea of the maximum rate.🙂

[solemn saffron]

well if you see the last 1H of my stream i think i was afk for more

but wasn't in the right middle =/

15 block south

[trim kestrel]

As long as we can see the incoming. 🙂

[solemn saffron]

yep you can

[inland compass]

So i think i have a way of post stun bug mob vs mob farm

Get a good number of mold tentacles to spawn on one side, leave a 2 tile gap to avoid brute agro. Have conveyors on mold push the infected towards the kill zone.

Essentially use the infected as meat shields for the tentacles

I noticed that the ranged npcs don't target the tentacles specifically, just the first enemy they see

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, that's what @deft pulsar was doing here: #977128133142659102 message

Is it so tricky, though, to make mob-vs-mob farms? Isn't there a lot of viable options?

[inland compass]

The only tricky part is the stupid brute

So you'd need to make 2 feeds, one with cavelings and the other with everything else

[primal rapids]

Didn't Zero have a set up to prevent brute spawns while getting cavelings?

[trim kestrel]

Yes, horizontal strips of moss.

But I'm sceptical of exactly what's going on with that spawn-rate testing setup, in total...

There's a 2x discrepancy between identical spawn chambers, near to each other in the core dirt biome. And only the one that produces more cavelings will produce only miners, with horizontal stripes.

I eliminated the ground surface and adjacent ground tiles, yesterday, as rhe cause. So will be thinking about exact location next. Maybe there's a radius close to the core that has a big effect on this. 🤔

[inland compass]

If it helps, the game doesn't appear to pick a biome type then spawn

It seems to pick a location and then x number of points around that location

Yesterday i was cleaning out some infected to spawn more tentacles and a crab on sand spawned, a blue slime on slime spawned, and a hunter and gardener spawned simultaneously

The 3 chambers are adjacent to each other

[trim kestrel]

That's the assumption I've been working on the whole time. Random X-Ys. Constellation of mobs always was obvious with infected. And what I've been seeing with the tests looks like it counts up spawn surface tiles in the spawn area, to decide what to spawn.

And yeah, definitely different mob types often come together in the same wave. I imagined in originally like the old fashioned green trace radar display, sweeping the map (around you) dropping pings randomly. But I don't know that it might be (near) simultaneous all over the map. Or much more staggered but occasionally happens to sync up.

.
@pine fiber - about your caveling farming: #📷-ck-media message

My testing showed that I was getting very roughly 0.6 caveling spawns per hour, per 100 tiles of stone, in the forgotten ruins biome. I.e. very slow, compared to using stone moss, which gave closer to 11 spawns per hour per 100 tiles.

So you have to make a natural spawning farm very big to be worth while. And it all has to be within 200 tiles of where your character is standing, to work.

[pine fiber]

oh god

[pine fiber]

so ur telling me i have to build it in the forgotten ruins for it to be efficient?

also can you send me your design while youre at it? i really dont know how to make a killing place and an efficient collection system

[trim kestrel]

It looks like you want to farm the stone biome cavelings, right? So, best way is to use the stone moss spawn surface that you can find in the stone biome of new worlds. Which will work anywhere (at differing rates).

But if you're not doing that, then you have to be in the forgotten ruins to get any caveling spawns at all, yes.

[pine fiber]

i gathered a bunch of the stone moss so i am planning on making a farm out of it, but i thought you mentioned that making a farm thats not in the ruins will be way less efficient than if it were

[trim kestrel]

No. If using moss. It'll work fairly fast anywhere. I'm trying to figure out why one of my test farms spawns twice as fast, quite close to the core, though.

[pine fiber]

Mk, but can you still send me your design?

@trim kestrel

for me some of the mobs were even breaking the spikes

[trim kestrel]

Hush child, I'm looking for a particular link for you. 😜

There is no robust collection system for caveling killing, in my opinion, that puts dropped items into chests without player intervention. But this redditor showed off this design for killing them: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoreKeeperGame/comments/vqc4p2/finally_found_a_reliable_caveling_auto_farm_setup/

The main trick it to have poison ground under the spikes, to prevent mobs regenerating health and tanking the spikes.

But this will spawn purple slimes, every now and then. Which can break robot arms (I think) or cause caveling brutes to attack and break ground tiles.

[pine fiber]

thats annoying

but thanks a lot this helps me greatly

[trim kestrel]

Generally. it's currently just easier to collect the drops manually. Maybe with the magnet rings. And dump your inventory into a chest sorting system. Or manually stack it in a series of chests.

[pine fiber]

ya

[trim kestrel]

By the way, at first, I thought you was saying you'd peaked at the game code...

But anyway, this happened right after I switched the pattern of 3 moss surfaces around in the chamber (from diagonal to horizonal stripes). Simultaneous spawn of scholar, Farmer, Hunter and Miner.

Which makes me think there may be a max of 4 mobs spawns per x-y event. But most biomes (except mold) limit the number of spawns of their mobs types. But alternating the surfaces might get around this and maximise use of spawn events.

I'd literally just finished on the conveyors, where I'd had a miner spawn 5 tiles away from me, too! (Hence enabling Instant Replay.)

[floral tendon]

it's there a range that mobs stop spawning even with the changes keeping belts alive? spent about an hour on the opposite side of the map and came back to basically no change

[inland compass]

215

[floral tendon]

🤔 interesting, seems small but will take a look

[trim kestrel]

That's basically everything inside of the Ghorm ring, when stood right at the core. Like @solemn saffron's mega-farm (above): #977128133142659102 message

[trim kestrel]

Actually it seemed like I just got 7 assorted cavelings simultaneously. So 4 is not an upper limit.

Unless some/all were avengers, from me clearing out the previous batch of test subjects.

[floral tendon]

yeah it just seems a bit small since my farm is at the edge of the clay biome and i feel like still get spawns while hanging around the core, but that's just anecdotal so far

[trim kestrel]

I've yet to experiment with how player movement might affect spawn rates. E.g. on a rail loop that brings you into and out of range of a mob farm repeatedly. Or very close and far.

(To see if there's an accelerated effect on return. I'm guessing not really.)

[floral tendon]

by edge i mean outer edge

yeah there might be something like that

i'm still convinced there's some catchup or optimization on return

cause there's always a bunch of mobs on the belt when i come back after a bit

they wouldn't survive as far if i was in the area

[trim kestrel]

My feeling is that it would be, at most, like root farms. Where you get a synchronised harvest across all points, then back to regular rates. But I dunno.

[floral tendon]

yeah that would make sense to me

and then it probably tries to calculate where they would be given the elapsed time

letting them leak past turret rooms 😂

[trim kestrel]

My thinking being that it doesn't seem to catch up with all the spawns there should have been while you were away. Like drills kinda used to do.

You'd just get the spawn timers all set to zero, so you'd get a guaranteed spawn wave immediately. Then wait the normal amount of time for the next 'wave'. Such that repeatedly leaving and returning woudn't increase the overall rate above just standing AFK in range.

[floral tendon]

actually that probably means i need to stop draining the mold cavelings from my tentacle platforms 🤔

it's likely something in between

it's definitely more than a single wave

or maybe it is a single wave but it stacks the triggered spawns for each area that it calculates and does them all at once

[trim kestrel]

Something like that.

I just can't think what object the game attaches a spawn cooldown to. If it were to do that, instead of just randomly raining them down around your all of the time.

Like, it's not individual tiles... Unless it creates some kind of world-wide (per tile) heat map, or spawns. But that would mean delineating one timer per tile. Which is a lot of processing... So, per map chunk? Seems too course.

[floral tendon]

I'm sure it's not too hard to have another set of subdivisions within a given range

it's typical LoD logic

even if it was per tile, it's not super expensive to iterate across tiles in a given range on a single timer, though that would definitely be an optimization opportunity lol

[trim kestrel]

LoD?

[floral tendon]

level of detail

doing less work the further away from the player you are

[trim kestrel]

ok.

I do not get what is happening with these spawn rate tests, near the core...

The rates appear reproducible, but chamber A produces more than either C or B. Despite the exact same construction and spawn surface pattern (horizontal stipes of stone moss).

(A) produces ~25 mobs per hour per 100 tiles (fast). While (B) Produced ~11. And (C) ~15.

I'm getting some brutes from A now too. So horizontal stipes sure aren't a hard and fast rule to avoid those.

[lilac gale]

@trim kestrel Since you're making your food cheat sheet, figured I would mention something that I noticed that seems to be interesting to me. It looks like the new ingredient, the golden pinegrapple, makes rare foods at default while the older ingredient, golden carrock, doesn't. I have no idea why, the fish is in the same slot in both pots as is the crop of choice.

Possibly something differently coded about the newer added foods..? Confuses me to say the least.

[long dagger]

my world lagged out so hard, ended up even duping some stone ground accidentally cause of the insane lag refusing me to put them away in a chest. I even managed to walk through the world border and the egg shaped areas, after relogging in those spots it would spawn me in obsidian and the world loaded just fine for a few seconds till it lagged out again

[long dagger]

tried testing some things while that happened like removing obsidian walls

[deft pulsar]

im afk for like 2 days but the mold tentacle never spawn more than 3 on my 2x50 strip

[inland compass]

I've had to clear out the infected to get tentacles to spawn

[deft pulsar]

what you need is just bout 4 crabs and 3 blocks gaps, they will kill everything instantly

yes, i have the crabs keep kiling the mobs but the tentacles never spawn more than 3 on those strips

2 days afk and the results are the same

[inland compass]

Well i have about 8 in my 10x20

[deft pulsar]

yeh, thats 200 blocks compare to my <100 blocks. plus tentacle attack about 7-8 blocks distant and you will have to get 3 blocks gaps to avoid brute hit your strip. so i think a 3-5 blocks wide strips will be the optimum

this is my best one so far and you dont have to worry about brute. they kill it all. stunt or not, no purple slime either

[long dagger]

Interesting patch

What was it, copper ore rarely spawning in clay caves but only in ghorms path?

Unless if they exclude boulder types from spawning in specific biomes, they may have a chance to spawn in any biome if the floor it's generated on supports the ore type. I'm guessing copper boulders may still spawn on the path if u kill it before loading the area after it makes its path

[pulsar anvil]

yeah interesting one indeed

[spare wraith]

Fixed an issue where the Blow Pipe would give more range skill points than intended.
wait this is why the farm was busted

[ripe lily]

yeah but grubzooka was more efficient anyway so not bad

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, RIP blowpipe skill farming (grubzooka guy myself).

RIP acid boss spawning trick (that clearly had to go quick).

RIP Craigin's stunning mobs for melee farming and mob farming.

But rip stun glitch on bosses and dodgy health bars, so all good.

Maybe fix for what Frost saw, for example, with black terrain?

And hopefully fix for doors and gates failing to exist.

I guess this means that lead coder, Max, is currently back on the job. Seen him fully online, on this discord.

[trim kestrel]

OK, so...

(1) Bruh... This is what I've been banging on about (and detailed in my guide), with the rarity system. It's arbitrary which golden veg combinations take precedence for giving a dish its suffix (and icon). And that's what determines if it's rare or uncommon (by default).

I showed it with all the golden/heartberry combos. And in this graphic (slightly updated from the one you commented on).

The new (golden) veg are no different. And yeah, it's confusing AF! If players like you still haven't fully got what's going on, yet. And my guide was flat wrong for a whole month (saying all golden veg give rare dishes), yet no one flagged it. I'm definitely going to try and raise this with the devs.

...

[trim kestrel]

(2) Where the heck is that 15% damage against bosses stat coming from?!

[inland compass]

talent

one of the talents is 15% boss damage from eating food made with either fish or veggies, don't remember which

and rip my precious mold tentacles

and my 6 complacent blue slime punching bags

[trim kestrel]

I was looking and looking through the talents trees, right now, cos I'm sure I'd seen it.... Yeah, it's "Power of Omega" (fishing end talent). It's in my cheat-sheet too. 😳 But I'd not realised it states it direct on the dish stats. 🤔

[inland compass]

yeah neither did I till someone posted a picture of a food with 2 lines that said bonus damage to bosses and asked if it stacked

and I think Peace pointed out the talent

[trim kestrel]

Does it state the "Fast Food" bonus melee attack speed talent on every dish...? (When spec'd.)

[trim kestrel]

Does it stack with bonus boss damage from other foods, then? Did you guys figure it out?

[lilac gale]

I also did the same thing with bottom tracer and both golden carrock and bomb pepper. Same order as the ones I sent, fish on top crop on bottom, and both came out with base rare results lmao

It honestly seems like certain recipes just don't give what they're supposed to on default or something like that.

[lilac gale]

I'm pretty sure this is all the results I heard from the testing, otherwise I missed the others: #🎮-game-discussion message

[trim kestrel]

Order of ingredients, in the pot, have never had an effect on anything in core keeper, right? (But they do in some other games?)

[trim kestrel]

Do you feel that golden veg should always take precedence and make the resultant dish rare instead of just uncommon?

You understand my heartberry graphic, right? That it's totally shuffled up random for all ingredient combos, currently.

[inland compass]

we assumed it did, but i don't think anyone tested it

[lilac gale]

They do typically in other games yea, which is why I've been mentioning it.

It would make sense, to me at least, that they would give base quality rare foods if you used a golden crop in the cooking process. Adding another wouldn't bump the tier up, would remain base rare, but would allow for a more filled buff list on the item card.

I do get the graphic, it's been random recipe result for those things for ages and it's super confusing and unintuitive.

[trim kestrel]

That would feel more fair to me. But then you'd never get the base level stats of the golden veg; they'd always with +25%. So the devs would then need to rebalance those.

[trim kestrel]

"Fast Food" melee attack speed buff does appear to stack with the same buff type from ingredients. It shows the buffs separately, top left, when applied. And my speed slowed when the 30s fast food buff wore off.

So, if the boss damage buffs show up twice, too I'd assume they work the same.

[trim kestrel]

Wait. So the devs aren't back from holiday, because they didn't even go until now?! 😕 https://steamcommunity.com/games/1621690/announcements/detail/3345626689222588573

[trail badger]

so now whatever cooky things we figure out we get to keep for the next month.. how happy 🙂

[trim kestrel]

I wish they'd fixed the sprinklers and mob teleportation before embarking on more new content, though (root grow seemingly getting stuck).

Seems like 0.4 is far more buggy than 0.3 was...?

[trail badger]

yeah a full sprinkler fix would have been cool, but they attempted to address part of the issue. not sure what theyll be able to do with that water layering thing

[trim kestrel]

What part did they fix already? You mean, changing it to not require power?

I suspect it'll not be too hard to fix fully. Or redesign a little.

[trail badger]

misread, its a particle fix when you have particles set to low

[lilac gale]

So to use them en-masse I need to make my game quality crap

Kinda not what I wanna do

Guess I just won't use them still lmao

[floral tendon]

i get why they aren't powered but i wish you could toggle them with a switch

[lilac gale]

Or make them just only activate when watering is needed

Would solve a lot of the issues imo

[floral tendon]

truth be told idek what these issues are, i haven't had any problems with them

the wilderness in general still causes way more fps drop than anything sprinklers have done

[lilac gale]

Do you hover regularly around 80 tiles from your sprinklers or are they aways off that

Cause they create quite a few issues.

[floral tendon]

as in they cause issues when you're within 80?

cause no, all my sprinklers are quite a way away

[lilac gale]

#977128133142659102 message

This is my most recent results from testing with them

It's a small read

But yea, the issues for the most part arise when you're hovering near the load/unload distance which is 80 for most things from testing results

[floral tendon]

hmm

[lilac gale]

It's been a hit/miss issue though

Many get it, but not everyone does

[floral tendon]

not too clear on it, does it have to do with crossing chunk borders, or having a lot in multiple chunks?

[lilac gale]

Others also get it immediately, like I did, and others have it happen days after

My entire farm is on one chunk

It was initially thought it was related to chunk borders, but later shown not to be the case.

It's thought now to be related to them being loaded/unloaded

Which causes the issue

Since the game doesn't just unload the entire chunk I guess

I'm not a huge expert on the loading system for the game though

[floral tendon]

as in, they get reloaded, and then cause lag when you go to them or harvest?

[lilac gale]

Yea, sort of similarly to mob farms when they have thousands of items on the ground

[floral tendon]

i see

[lilac gale]

We believe it's stacking the watered ground effect, which is causing lag

[floral tendon]

yeah i understand now

[lilac gale]

Amongst other things, but that's the main one we think is the cause

[floral tendon]

yeah idk can't say i've been able to observe it

just tried harvesting with no problems

[lilac gale]

Relaunching the game solved all my issues after I removed them and got rid of the crops

[floral tendon]

but i'm generally either far away or very close here, not really noodling about the 80 range

[lilac gale]

It was pretty immediate for me, my main part of the storage base in that world is right at the range for the whole 80 tiles thing

[floral tendon]

guess i was fortunate then

[lilac gale]

I'd count your blessings yea

[floral tendon]

i will say, sprinklers fixed the 3 cursed watered tiles that have plagued me since i started the game lol

[lilac gale]

I just place them now when I'll be hovering afk nearby

Oh nice lol

[floral tendon]

i hope they optimize the wilderness though...

my framerate yoyos so hard out here, it's much smoother in the sea

literally just having this on screen loses me 20fps compared to the sprinklers on screen lol

[trim kestrel]

Right. Maybe we're odd for not having use cases like this; I'm very surprised the servers not been inundated with players complaining about severe "lag" and disconnected from this...

[floral tendon]

are y'all playing on a server?

[trim kestrel]

no

[trim kestrel]

It prutty, tho... (I've not noticed such problems with wilderness.)

[floral tendon]

strange

and yeah, it is pretty but

fps counter is in the screenshot 😂

some parts drop all the way to 40

i think the water is really bad somehow

[trim kestrel]

"82"...?! Mine is never really about 60... And at base is 30-40, I count as alright.

[floral tendon]

it was over 100 with nothing but sprinklers on screen

that's mainly why i was surprised to hear about sprinkler problems lol

[trim kestrel]

I think player expectations for FPS vary widely! Heh. I mean, my monitor will do 170Hz, but I don't expect anything but 60 in an indie title like this. 🤷

[floral tendon]

mmm

well

i have a feeling that they're using some sort of screen space filter to produce clean pixel edges

so that would be my guess for what's hitting the fps so hard

[trim kestrel]

Not sure what space fillers involve.... But the pixels look anti-aliased, up close. Not perfectly crisp to screenshot, sadly. But probably easier for viewing.

[floral tendon]

think so? they look pretty clean to me

might be image compression in the screenshot

[trim kestrel]

Nah. It's in-game (zoomed in in photoshop, from png grab). But then the game doesn't run at fixed resolutions, right, so not going to be exact multiples of native.

[floral tendon]

huh

i guess so

what resolution are you using

[trim kestrel]

Game doesn't say. My screen's 2560x1440. But game has different amounts of black boarder, depending on if I've alt+enter'd out to windowed, etc. But can't get clean shots starting straight to full screen. Even at different screen resolutions.

[floral tendon]

hm 1440

guess the graphics are sized for 1080

it's crisp at 2160

so it's probably scaled up by exactly 2x

interesting, wouldn't have expected it to work that way

[trim kestrel]

Can you send a png screenshot for me to pixel peep?

[floral tendon]

oh man i literally just closed the game

my screenshots above should be png tho

[gusty epoch]

I think with the way the rendering is done you shouldn't have anti-aliasing like that.

Most of the stuff should be / is forced to a pixel-perfect position

Especially the text, which is pain

[trim kestrel]

So your game does the same at the same screen resolution as mine, then?

[gusty epoch]

Hmm

Lemme check

yea I guess so

Hardly noticeable while playing so :/

[trim kestrel]

Oh, but your screen really is pixel perfect. huh. (Not sure I'd prefer that, for viewing comfort.)

Hmm, I can get crisp pixels too... By setting monitor to 1080 (looks crap for me) and making sure to toggle game's video settings back up to full screen (not just via alt+enter).

jpg compressed shot there so you can clearly see the game pixels are scaled up by a factor of 4 (from 480x270). So 1440p is a factor of 5.33. Darn.

[inland compass]

yeah image recognition was a pain because of that

i also play at 2560x1440

[long dagger]

The platform that the npc spawns on in the stone biome has full water tiles within it, not the usual glitched flowing water which is interesting

[lilac gale]

Gotta love cooking 🙃

[long dagger]

Hmmm... u think they'll fix it but that epic food will no longer be obtainable?

[lilac gale]

Would be a pretty silly way to fix it.

Just make things with a golden crop rare at default

the thing I was more confused by was the fact that the food completely changed sprites between the rare and epic foods for the smoothie

[floral tendon]

shame, the regular sprite looks pretty refreshing

[lilac gale]

the epic one isn't even a smoothie, idk how it got that sprite lmao

so many foods cooked from the new foods have seemingly randomly assigned sprites that don't match their name too

[inland compass]

sprinklers seem much better

i've been farming in 2 strips of 128 tiles long, no slowdowns or crashes

[primal rapids]

I wonder if there's a consistent way to get ghorm stuck. I've seen bunch of reports of stuck ghorm throughout different versions, so at least whatever causes it is somewhat persistent

[long dagger]

I've only seen for myself of it's head facing the wrong way or a part trailing further back

[green imp]

I'm sure how many pickup it takes to max out gardening skill has been calculated. Is it 256 because you have 2 strips of 128?

[craggy light]

What's more annoying than sailing your ship and finding a little portion of land that forces you to land, pick up your boat and re-spawn it in the water?

What about making another ship update: the hovercraft, which lets you travel for a little distance on terrain, so that you can "jump" over thin pieces of lands?

[gusty epoch]

Making a mod that breaks picking up boats for no conceivable reason.

[regal berry]

If you want your suggestion to not get lost, please put it in #📋-feedback-suggestions as well 😁 The dev team is on holiday currently, but they'll definitely catch up with everything once they're back!

[inland compass]

19976 harvests to max out gardening.

[trim kestrel]

Well, at least the ratios of elevated rarity still fit our understanding! 😅

I can't believe that anyone could reel in 2000 mold sharks (or more)! Then just casually throw 1k in each pot... 😮 🤯 #FishingNoobHere

[proper coral]

Oh so I only have to farm my 800 tile farm like 25 times lol

[lilac gale]

It's not strictly my fish, I trade for fish whenever I do trades with people since they offer the best buffs and I'm just cooking up some of my own stuff again lol

But I do fish a lot, so most of them are mine lol

I also did a bit of testing to see how much the epic yield fluctuates. Out of 20 grabs the lowest I ever received was 32, and the highest was 68.

So it seems there can be a nice (or bad) variation in given quantity.

[green imp]

"password" protected gate

Rotate the delayed circuit in the correct orientations and flip the switch, the door will open

Wrong orientation and flip the switch > red light flashes

Wrong orientation + flip the switch + brute forcing different orientations > door closed + red light

Before the update, I used logic circuit for the input. After the update, logic circuit will only glow in the right direction, giving away the correct "password"

[inland compass]

you should have a second door that is holding back a mass of infected. then if they brute force, open the infected door and have it flood the room with them lol

[magic cave]

Jesus, how many mushrooms and amber have you farmed and how many worlds did you raid for them?

[lilac gale]

Enough 👍

I might have eaten too much tbh

Game is easy again lol

Trades gave me a fair amount too

[magic cave]

Yeah I feel like having 2k health would trivialize the game too much for my taste

[lilac gale]

I didn't realize how close I was, and as a result overate

I wanted to stop at 1.5k or so

Just enough that I wouldn't get one shot by the Omoroth tentacles if they for whatever reason all spawned next to me

[magic cave]

I only have the ones I've managed to farm on my first world so I'm at about 700 ish health and I haven't found any issues with it

[lilac gale]

I play on hard, 700 is 2 shot territory

[magic cave]

Guess I haven't fought hard mode omoroth yet though

I play on hard as well

[green imp]

I had something similar where there's two switch to the same door. One allows to you pass through just fine. The other allows to pass through, traps you, then turns on all the drills. Too bad you can just punch through anything at this point

[lilac gale]

And not what I'm about to deal with with the tentacles while traversing

[inland compass]

700 is 2 shot territory for any mobs lol

[magic cave]

I haven't had any issues with any bosses yet.

[magic cave]

Lol, no it isn't. Maybe with 0 armor

[inland compass]

stupid hunters do over 300 damage

[lilac gale]

And their shot is much faster than most of the others lol

[inland compass]

47 armor, just hit me for 292 and 258

[magic cave]

47 armor is pretty low though

[inland compass]

yeah i run damage not armor

otherwise you're just getting hit even more

[magic cave]

You can definitely run both. Food buffs stack

[inland compass]

then i'd have to farm carrocks

😄

[magic cave]

I mean you have to farm for food regardless. I don't see the issue

[trail badger]

just have peace farm for you. gives him something to do

[lilac gale]

Shh

[inland compass]

much harder to automate when you have to account for specific regions of the farm being stone/mold ground

instead of just dirt

[lilac gale]

I'm pretty sure I already have a few 999 stacks of carrock food sitting fully cooked.

[magic cave]

I don't see how it makes it harder?

Just swap the ground

[inland compass]

that's nice

you miss the part about automate?

[magic cave]

So how are you automating your farm that swapping ground will make it so hard?

[trail badger]

does your farmer look for tiles? thought it was movement?

[inland compass]

so i have large strips of land set aside for automated farming, i'd have to reconfigure and set up for smaller strips of land because i only have about 200 carrock seeds instead of 800 heartberry / pepper seeds

uses coordinates now, i made a mod that spits out coordinates over a udp server

it used to use tile colors of the minimap

[magic cave]

So you modded the game to automate farming?

[inland compass]

no i modded the game to provide coordinates to my bot program

farming is just one piece

🙂

[magic cave]

So you're botting to automate farming?

[inland compass]

yup

[magic cave]

Gotcha

[inland compass]

which is why it requires changes to do the different ground types

because it is more restrictive than dirt

because I don't have the seeds to fill out the full rows

[magic cave]

Yeah I get that. I'm talking about playing the game yourself. That's why I don't see the issue just planting some carrocks

But if that's how you like to play the game, then I can see the trouble

[green imp]

I used to use a Python script to automate maxing out my mining skill. Took days of continuous running. They really should scale the skill exp requirement down

[lilac gale]

They won't any time soon

We've been asking for months lmao

[magic cave]

If they plan to add more ores and tiles to mind and make total mining damage scale the experience gain then it probably makes sense to keep it as is

The game is still early alpha

[inland compass]

yeah so far the only things that really need a more complex bot are fishing, farming, and ranged (if you want to do long periods of time)

[lilac gale]

The xp doesn't do that though

You just hit a wall, any wall, and it gives you 1 xp

[magic cave]

That's why I said "and make"

I realize it's not implemented that way

[lilac gale]

Then it wouldn't be kept as is

[green imp]

"Running" the program. I didn't mean actual running

[lilac gale]

And if they were going to do that, do it now

[lilac gale]

I know what you meant

It was aimed at Barclid, not you

[green imp]

Sorry, I thought that comment was about me

[lilac gale]

No stress

[magic cave]

If you don't know where you want to end progression wise then maybe you don't want to assign incremental values in a system with a skill cap

[lilac gale]

They've already changed a few of the xp systems

[inland compass]

yeah they fixed crafting

when everything used to give 1xp

[magic cave]

I mean, that's fair. I'm just giving one possible explanation. I have no clue what they'll do

[lilac gale]

They also changed Fishing scaling as well as Ranged scaling

Blowpipe I'm pretty sure was "bugged" to give old values

And now isn't

[inland compass]

really, the 100 level is meant for the released game

so you'd get it more naturally if all the content was in place

[lilac gale]

It is, but it still needs some tweaking done to it regardless.

[trail badger]

with minings scaling im terrified at what they would expect us to mine through

[inland compass]

and with the "starting classes" they probably envisioned multiplayer where someone was the crafter, others farmers/cooks, others fish

[lilac gale]

Scaling needs to be tweaked in the short term, so that mining doesn't take 60 hours to do at min

Eh, not needs. Should be I suppose

[trail badger]

deserts gonna be similar to the sea, except we have to dig through walls to find small oasis islands

takes 2500 mining power

thatll get our mining up

[inland compass]

i'm still hoping for mini ghorms that pop out of the ground

[lilac gale]

Deserts are usually completely open, so I'm a bit worried about not needing to mine a bunch

Unless our desert is going to be more like simulating a canyon maze

[trail badger]

idk, i just feel mining is overscaled, especially for those last perks to just not be as powerful

[short hill]

how do you know this?

is there some sort of information location i dont know about

[trail badger]

that was completey satire

[short hill]

....

sometimes i get satire

sometimes it flies right over my head

[trail badger]

it was in just trying to make sense of the scaling on mining. how ridiculous the 3rd area would have to be for us to be able to max it, or even get it significantly high just through gameplay

[lilac gale]

Especially considering Sunken is basically 0 mining

[trim kestrel]

There will be 2 more biomes, though. With the crystal biome, in the obsidian blobs, pressumably. They're not that big, each, but maybe we'll have to cut into a load of them...?

I kinda like Peace's vision of Grand Canyon like "desert". More West World than rolling sand dunes... Although I was looking forward to finding pretty little oases. But not so much to a 3rd type of sand. 🫤

[long dagger]

Is it confirmed that the next large biome is gonna be a desert type? I guessed so myself cause of the spawn distance for structures just getting further and further, wouldn't make sense to have it filled with walls while having to go out 1500+ tiles out

U think they'll finally add glass walls and floors with that update?

[trim kestrel]

Right. If all the POIs are that much further out, and it's solid ground. I get the distinct feeling we might be getting dune buggies. Or some other land vehicle (whatever works in a 1 tile footprint). 🤔

Glass, maybe. Would mobs see you through it and shoot at you...? And run at you...? Interesting mob baiting farm designs with that (provided it wasn't breakable).

Maybe it'll be more like salt flats dessert... (TerraTech has that as a biome.)

[floral tendon]

been wishing for glass blocks...

just wanna keep my lights from getting bonked

[trim kestrel]

Anyway...

It looks like there are just undulations in the natural spawn rate, tied to x-y co-ordinates. At least in this part of my dirt biome.

I built a vertically slotted spawn rate tester, with nothing blocking it, to explore the bit where I had a chamber that just kept getting double rate of spawns vs other nearby chambers. A 3 hour run (while building nearby) and a 2 hour run (AFK) both saw almost nothing in the middle and a load at the sides:

Weird that the AFK run (next to the comb of collectors) made no sentries at all. Vs the one where I was 1 to 2 chunks away.

[lilac gale]

It was confirmed awhile ago with the roadmap they put out

[long dagger]

they put out a new one after the sea update?

[gusty epoch]

Eventually they will

[lilac gale]

I would assume they'd update it after their holiday

[gusty epoch]

I have big doubt the new biome will be released this soon, but would be pleased if it were

[lilac gale]

No no that would be the road map updating

The biome I expect in October probably

[gusty epoch]

Ahh yea I wanna see new roadmap

[trim kestrel]

The rate they are churning out content is wild though... 😅

[lilac gale]

It's been nice.

[long dagger]

Compared to other games ye but it's more like a 2d game

[lilac gale]

Smaller content patches can come out quickly, I still expect the biome patch in a couple months

[long dagger]

They surely won't add the new biome without new features so the update may take a while

[trim kestrel]

I get more focused on fixes than new stuff, as I can pretty much always find more stuff I wanna do, in sandbox games like this... 🤷

[lilac gale]

I've just been fishing and cooking said fish lol

I got nothing left for me

[long dagger]

Prefer having more stuff to work towards and build automation for

New wiring but fix it first to make it consistent

Tested my lil build after the update to c if they perhaps fixed it but they didn't

[trim kestrel]

Spawn rate testing, chaps! Can sink any amount of time, seems like. Join me in the fun...

[inland compass]

so far so good!

[trail badger]

interesting

[inland compass]

Got about half a level, at 49, so far

[trim kestrel]

What is your trick to not randomly breaking the minecart track at the ends? Oh god of Core Keeper. (I literally tried this before and it failed.)

[inland compass]

I don't think it hits the track, and if it does it is only once

Then the loop must be long enough to heal

I've never seen the track bounce

If it does break I'll extend it more

[trim kestrel]

I'm thinking that you got lucky with the loop length syncing to an exact multiple of your melee speed. Because my tests drifted and eventually broke the track every time.

Well done though. 😅

[inland compass]

How long was your loop?

[trim kestrel]

This long, I guess... #🎮-game-discussion message I had explicitly thought about rail piece recovery times, and didn't see a worthwhile solution, at the time. 🤷

Like, it wasn't hitting the same piece of rail on consecutive loops.

[inland compass]

That's pretty short compared to mine

may also be a vertical vs horizontal cross

[trim kestrel]

I think I tried both...

[inland compass]

i also have sides on mine, it might be punching the side wall

[trim kestrel]

Maybe.

So there you go. No block loss AFK mining skill farm. wp.

[inland compass]

So it was still going 25 min later. Should be pretty solid

Almost to 50! Lol

[trim kestrel]

Looks like it's just this. With a track not quite a full mini-map width, I was unable to break the track by deliberately aiming to hit it every time. Provided the cart kept moving.

[inland compass]

So about 60 tiles long should work

[trim kestrel]

Sure. Maybe shorter, not sure. But not just like 20 tiles. And so, orientation shouldn't matter. One could go zig-zag within a compact maze, even.

You can also put carpet 'under' the rails, at the ends, to give an extra buffer against breakages, hitting that first, currently. (Wrongly.) But better just to be long enough to just not break anything.

[lilac gale]

Why must this food look so cool but be so generally unhelpful

[inland compass]

boooo not enough time for the walls to heal

started punching holes in the wall

[trim kestrel]

B I G G E R ! 😆

Mine survived perfectly fine for 50 minutes, just now. Only got about 3 pixels worth of XP, though. At level 77, with the same equipment as you. So mining power a little too high (223) for traditional optimal (178?). But provided you're getting any xp (and don't break the walls), that's as fast as it gets, right? 1 xp per hit?

[lilac gale]

1 xp per hit yes

[inland compass]

Yeah i pushed it to the stone biome border from the core

Hope that fixes it

Otherwise i think the punch and place may work

Since it wouldn't be immediate

[trim kestrel]

Oh, mine's only 50 tiles long, actually. Higher mining damage output than you and no blocks broken. I think syncing between hit rate and loop timing might be worth checking out. Like, make the loop one block longer, see if that (would have) fixed it.

Oh, and you can absolutely AFK gardening skill too, with this. (Both buttons held down. Stack of seeds in hand.)

Plants helpfully only break with one hit when they are fully mature. 🙂

Did you already have this in mind?

You could do both of these skills simultaneously.

[inland compass]

Lol nope! Awesome

I just maxed farming yesterday

[trim kestrel]

With your script?

I'd had a quick go at this on conveyor belts. But you just punch the belts because they pull you to the centre of the tile.

[inland compass]

Yeah my bot

2 rows of sprinklers, about 24 sprinklers long

No performance issues overnight

[trim kestrel]

Think they might have quietly fixed the tile corruption bug? Like, is it worth someone doing a provocation test again...? @lilac gale 😜

[lilac gale]

For sprinklers?

[trim kestrel]

Mmm

[inland compass]

Mine was about 130 tiles long and ran for about 8 hours

[lilac gale]

I can try it tomorrow

[inland compass]

While farming

[lilac gale]

I'm off soon, I'm tired lmao

[trim kestrel]

ditto

[lilac gale]

Just trying to let these cooks go as long as I can before bed

[trim kestrel]

right. But had you had them break before for you? May be some specific PC environment issue, too... 🤷

COOK FASTER POTS! Just get moar pots?

[inland compass]

Yeah

When i did 41 in a row it crashed at about half way

[lilac gale]

I could break it up, the 999 stack though just looks too nice

[trim kestrel]

True. 🤩

[trim kestrel]

You mean, like immediately/soon after placing the sprinklers...?

[inland compass]

Nah i would have my bot going planting and harvesting

And half way plants would reappear

[lilac gale]

Just cooking whatever at this point tbh lol

[inland compass]

Then the game would crash

[lilac gale]

I wanna have buff foods for basically anything, even if I never use them

[inland compass]

A few times i got the black space bug before crashing

[trim kestrel]

Oh-k. So quite possibly the same thing as we had.

[inland compass]

Yeah

[lilac gale]

It sounds like the same thing I had too yea

[trim kestrel]

999 Astral jellies, in the pot you go, YOLO! 😵

[lilac gale]

I don't have a ton left over, I had to fish today to get that 999 stack lol

[trim kestrel]

Oh yikes, and they're not even going to make a rare dish by default (wither those golden heartberries)! 😶

[lilac gale]

Yea, they don't

I'll still get the epics, so idc lmao

[trim kestrel]

Do they with any of the other golden veg? I've had so few I ran out after testing them with just hearberries! 😅

[lilac gale]

Uh, I can check with some random pots

[trim kestrel]

Well. I guess I could have checked with the food database if it bothers me. So no worries.

[lilac gale]

Already doing it, I have the few to spare

So

For whatever reason

Only the new gold foods give base rare

I did get one random rare extra cook, and I did gold larva just because gold

[trim kestrel]

Cool. Astral smoothies. Mmm, fishy. 🤢 😅

[lilac gale]

the rot fish food looks so good though

they all do tbh

I like the sprites a ton

I also love the inconsistency with the sprites of choice, despite my always putting fish on top and crop on bottom lol

[long dagger]

Does it matter what order it's put in?

Either way it's odd, u think they'd change it?

[lilac gale]

It doesn't, well shouldn't, but it's still odd regardless yea

I just do it for consistency sake if for whatever reason it might matter

I would hope they make sprites consistent at some point, across all food tiers

cause, having my sprite change a possible three times depending on what I cook makes very little sense

my food should not drastically change it's end product just because it became slightly more (or less) sparkly

[inland compass]

lol game crashed, which had me holding g in discord chat, which also crashed discord

[lilac gale]

Oh God lol

[inland compass]

i was at like -1127 character message limit

[lilac gale]

That's a few

[uncut remnant]

hmm

[inland compass]

Lol

1 hour mark, no broken or cracked walls. So about 100 tiles seems to be working for now

[trim kestrel]

What's this cryptic image of?

[uncut remnant]

Hmm

[trim kestrel]

You seen many more than that Epic Mouldy Tropics Smoothy you showed? #977128133142659102 message

[inland compass]

so the long track crashes my game after about 2 hours 😦

going to see if this works better, 64 tiles wide

[lilac gale]

As in have I cooked more of the food or have I found more than sprite change?