Core Keeper University

[primal rapids]

like, longer than blip generator, but shorter than delay circuit

[ripe lily]

That is because at no point is both inputs to the last lc being powered at the same time, they alternate

[long dagger]

O, forgot it still lights up with 1 input

[ripe lily]

Zero has a vid let me find it

[ripe lily]

https://youtu.be/-yQuvne4FOk

[trim kestrel]

I think you could maybe use the output from one of the stages from my binary counter...? #📷-ck-media message

[ripe lily]

That too

[trim kestrel]

But not sure, what's the use case Mz? Arbitrary length sub-second pulse adjustments are non-trivial...

[ripe lily]

Yeah we can do 15th of a second granularity but we'd need to know exactly how long you want it on and off for

[trim kestrel]

I still have no idea what's going on in this circuit of your's lol. Why was there 2 parallel lines of wire, again?

[ripe lily]

So the outer most wires just combine the output of each of the nodes so the light only powered when they are all on together

The inner one it just your binary counter condensed

[primal rapids]

well I got this working now, or at least it can pull me through the drill... no idea why it wouldn't do that earlier

wrong order, but anyway

[trim kestrel]

Pro tip: always summarise what you think is happening in visual demonstration. Because it will never be obvious to everyone...

Was it just that it is rapidly pulsing at all, when you wanted something steadier? That's feedack for you. An "astable" circuit.

[long dagger]

I simply don't think at times 💀

Did u c the auto smelter?

[trim kestrel]

Does that not break the door?

[primal rapids]

it does, but my problem before wasn't breaking the door, it was that it would push me to the right, outside the door, and not through the drill

[trim kestrel]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977128133142659102/977987740568281159/2022-05-22_Drill_into_door.gif

Like in my demo?

[primal rapids]

well, not exactly, I was all the way next to the drill, and it would still pop me out through the door

[trim kestrel]

And yeah, I checked popping over the drill and it worked fine for me. Even with walls either side, of course.

[primal rapids]

can't reproduce it now, but I thought the drill just behaved weird compared to walls

I guess I was wrong

[trim kestrel]

I had a thought earlier (I know, right?!): does the conveyor effect of the drills work at a longer range than their physics hitbox? (80 tiles load in/out for other automation.)

So, a single drill on an NPC would pull them to the back of it, as you approach, jamming them against a wall. Potentially kicking them out of a room. (I think nineforty showed this.)

Hence, the ghorm powered NPC farm, you'd want to hover back and forth over a 80 tile range. To kick them out into his path more quickly (than them walking through a door).

[ripe lily]

Doesn't really matter how long it takes for them to get on ghorm's path because he takes 4 mins to do the loop anyway

[trim kestrel]

I did. It's kind of uncomfortably bright and grid-like to look at, for me. (I stopped playing TerraTech because they made the R&D mode floor higher contrast and it gave me a headache.)

I'm not sure what's going on either. Like which bit you're putting in unsorted ore, even... Sorry.

[trim kestrel]

Huh. Is it that long, eh...?

I'm thinking of all the laps he's run, to mow down Mz's poor NPC for 160 hive mother summons....

[long dagger]

The right side chests could've acted like pedestals in a different layout so that part ended up needing player input. U just need 1 ore per item slot in those chests so u can keep the chests next to the smelters working as an auto sorter after the 1st item slot gets taken out

The single chest is the actual ore input for anything under 999

I changed the wiring to speed it up, after a few tests I can show it again

Or if u wanna join my world and c for urself

much better

[trim kestrel]

Thanks for that full schematic info-graphic, btw. 😅

I didn't think the NPCs would spawn 21 tiles from bed. like, they get to the 18/19 tile and say "this'll do"... Hmm.

And I'd not actually tried getting mine to spawn on a robot arm, only other objects.

Plus I'm wondering if your case could only happen with the beardy merchant? I mean, the was his getting up animation looks is suggestive of something different happening. But probably not.

[trim kestrel]

That's ok thanks. I tend to go full hermit (with creative games).

[long dagger]

Is this better for u? 😅

I used bars over ore since I was low on it

And replaced the smelters cause of that

[trim kestrel]

OK, well, I preproduced this reliably, getting beardy to spawn on robot arm, plant pot and chest, placed on 18th tile from bed (which I think will be the shortest distance possible).

Ejection direction is random and very variable. But digging up the rest of the floor inside the house stopped him popping back in.

The longest move-spawn was almost 4 minutes. Mostly shorter. And closer to 10 seconds, when breaking the bed and replacing it.

I also got the drills to hit for 14803 damage, each, shown here. When they were already on my screen and NPC moved into house, into the gap, there.

So not just on the first tick of reloading an area. They'd been running far away for ~35 minutes (I think, very unsure, wasn't making notes). So might have been about half the expected damage (aiming for over 100k / 4).

But this makes me think e.g. Malugaz can definitely be one-shot by drills, on spawn. But I'd guess only his first health bar, as he'll be immune to damage for a bit. Unless that prevents additional drills from hitting him. In which case they might save their hit for the second phase...

[deft pulsar]

12h afk from the Azeos farm

[inland compass]

now you can combine the 2. make a bunch of rooms with only 1 tile open with 4 drills facing it. Then have the npcs spawn on the robot arm and eventually teleport into the drill rooms and get killed. lol

[trim kestrel]

Heh. Rube Goldberg NPC farm.

I think I'll just keep the drills in the npc room. Although that would limit the number... 🤔

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, 32 seeds implies ~50 gardeners killed. From these drop rates: #977128133142659102 message

And those 9 hunter items imply ~75 hunters killed (though with much higher uncertainty, due to fewer low chance drops).

So, not useless. But I suspect that farm design could be improved. E.g. more conveyors bringing mobs from farther out..?

[ripe lily]

updated my npc farm design for better efficiency.

[trim kestrel]

So the main difference is...? Double robot arms to grab the swag quicker...? The NPCs don't respawn faster or anything? Those conveyors pushing them to the centre of the camber, right?

[inland compass]

Robot arms can reach through the wall?

[ripe lily]

The main difference is getting rid of all the spawn spots except those directly on top of me, so they always spawn right in the line of fire instead of having to travel down. The right arm does all the grabbing because the conveyors are set up to push everything into the bottom right corner. The left arm isn't strictly necessary but it ensures nothing can get stuck and missed along the way.

[ripe lily]

if the conveyors push the items into the wall then yes

and because i got rid of the floor, i made the entrance and exit to the npc farm, a push-through door

but yeah i could get rid of the left most gen, and arm and replace them with a single wire under the first chest and it would work the exact same.

another benefit is that i moved the on/off switch next to the entrance door.

[inland compass]

so that's how i found out they spawn on the arm, i was trying to load the junk out of the room. glad to know it is possible

[inland compass]

Has anyone else had drills on platforms be broken by wood?

The wood didn't grow on the platform, but still popped the drills

[pulsar anvil]

wust this

I see familiar names here hahaha

oh smokes so we killing them with drills now

bro how is it set up?

[ripe lily]

Zero couldn't get drills to kill em

but he did a bunch of dmg

seems to fall off after a while tho

[remote thunder]

Can you do a tutorial or at least a layout of this, would really apreciate!

[trim kestrel]

Zero did kill an NPC with just drills (left running far away for ~90 min): #977128133142659102 message

It was a busy day in here though, easy to miss.😉

So I count 3 ways to kill an NPC, now.

[trim kestrel]

I've not seen it. How sure are you that the root didn't grow onto the platform and then self destruct after it realised...?

(Or that there was a stray larva attack, or something?)

[ripe lily]

Must have missed it.

[ripe lily]

Must have most of it skills maxed to do this. And this doesn't include the autosorter that I have attached to it.

[remote thunder]

Thanks

[remote thunder]

What skills?

[ripe lily]

Melee, ranged, gardening, cooking to 75

[inland compass]

No mob attacks, it is in a blocked off area. My guess is the wood grew over the pit then self destructed, but i didn't think it would do that over pit or sand.

[remote thunder]

What do i put points into

[trim kestrel]

The talents that increase melee and crit damage.

[remote thunder]

K

[ripe lily]

and poison dmg

poison from either sickle or the skill is important

as is azeos beam

[trim kestrel]

I'd say just put down 1 tile of poison slime to free up those skill points...?

[ripe lily]

poison doesn't work through conveyors

so if you dont have an autosorter its fine

[remote thunder]

Where do you stand and aim

[ripe lily]

where the conveyors put you

bottom right, aim up and slightly to the left so azeos beam doesnt break the walls

[trim kestrel]

Oh, right you are. Hmm, that might change my plans with my next NPC drill farm idea... It hadn't come up for me before because I only have the sickle.

[primal rapids]

do cavelings spawn in the stone grounds near the great wall? it doesn't say "ruins" in the map when I'm there, but I can find some world gen spawns there

world gen spawns might not mean they respawn though

also, where does the ruins start/end? does it have rough edges like the world gen, or is it a more tight arc

the world gen spawns can even go on dirt 🤔

[trim kestrel]

I've mapped innner ruins boundary and it's perfectly spherical. By co-ordinates only, ignoring block or ground types.

That is looking at what biome it says top right in the full map.

Fishing obeys this too, based on where your bobber sits on the water.

[ripe lily]

What I don't see a biome indicator in the map

Ahh, never mind, just doesn't show anything in the dirt

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. The [null] biome.

[primal rapids]

do tentacles target normal cavelings?

[trim kestrel]

You tell me, boss...! 😜 (I'd bet they do, right?)

[lilac gale]

They should.

[primal rapids]

I'd guess they do, unless nature caveling and caveling factions are somehow friendly

I mean oops

they're mold caveling

[trim kestrel]

I can test in a bit, if you need me to.

huh?

[primal rapids]

the tentacles (and mold cavelings) are hostile against nature cavelings, right?

I mixed them up

[lilac gale]

Yes

They are

[primal rapids]

then they're probably hostile against cavelings too, I'm just dumb

[lilac gale]

Yep

Not that you're dumb lol

Didn't even read that second part

[trim kestrel]

So, anyway... My plan to have NPCs hit by a series of drills along a conveyor, to allow scaling up the rate of farming them a bit, did indeed hit a major snag...

Drills continue to pull NPCs even after they're turned off:

They pull even after you REMOVE the drill...

[lilac gale]

This explains why you can be standing within the Ruins and still catch fish from the dirt biome if you're close enough to the edge sometimes.

[trim kestrel]

Right.

You can't quite have any spot where you can catch all fish within 3 square tiles, but on the (map co-ord) border of stone or wilderness you can have two natural water biomes. Then mold and acid.

I wanted an all biome fishing spot...

but my one-pool would have to be hundreds of tiles long to spawn wilderness and ruins.

And there's no advantage of making a pool bigger than 1 tile, is there, currently? If you're happy with fishing flat water?

Oh... Been meaning to ask: Anyone know if this fishing rate is possible legitimately? https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2810083584

[lilac gale]

I'm pretty sure there's no noticeable difference regarding the water mass size

Also, I haven't ever been successful at fishing this quickly, even with a full fishing set up and buff foods.

Which they clearly do not have based off the lack of a buff.

[trim kestrel]

Right... Is there an animation cancel or something, if you're frame perfect? A bar (fishing mini-game?) pops up briefly each time.

I'd assume cheat-engine, otherwise...?

[lilac gale]

That I'm not certain about, but I've done an accidental cast where I meant to stop and immediately reel it back in

I didn't get this result though

And if it's frame perfect, them doing it this many times in succession might as well be considered a cheat engine of sorts

It trivializes the system at a basically fundamental level

[trim kestrel]

Well, if it were merely a macro/script then fair enough. Cheating, for sure, but not hacking.

[lilac gale]

Yea. At that point it would be a matter of personal belief on how far is too far before it's considered cheating.

But again, I have no knowledge of any means or tricks to make things immediately hook

[trim kestrel]

Thanks.

[analog orbit]

Unless you can keep adding to the buff that makes it so fish bite faster I doubt there's a way that's real

[trim kestrel]

As peace says, no buff icons showing... Also, the Steam user's not replying to questions, so... 🤷

[analog orbit]

Possible bug tho, that's always a maybe

[trim kestrel]

Yeah

[analog orbit]

Wonder how

Oh

Hm

I'm not on my PC rn but I have noticed that if you throw it on one of those where there's guaranteef fish and if you catch it immediately you can keep doing that

[river hamlet]

uuuhm cavelings cant destroy fences rigth?

i did some testing, but i want to double check

[trim kestrel]

unless you bait a brute, right?

So, yeah, my NPC drilling may be a bust, for now (might try a bug report on drills phantom pull)... But I had a fun consolation finding.... [Build suspense]

NPCs can (move) spawn outside of housing!

The trick seems to be having a wall gap with dug up floor. Plus no clear floor within the walls. Possibly a torch inside and out (I've not eliminated everything yet)...

Way out in the open here.

And in super-slow-mo, he spawned for a tick on the torch first, then got moved by further than a regular obstacle kick.

The other times he also ended up next to different torches, as it happens.

So, for the Ghorm farm, no need to mess about with spawning them on top of furniture, to kick them over walls. You just teleport them directly onto his track.

Not tried kill-spawning them in yet. And I'd welcome others to test what else might be eliminated from my (top) setup. If you please. 🙂

You may all applaud now... 😶

[analog orbit]

👏 👏 👏 👏

[river hamlet]

i need all our help and knowledge

this is my map and i want the whole stone biom as a cavelingfarm

the questions is how i handle a railway and some loot-spots

[ripe lily]

Why, they only spent in a 100 block radius anyway

[river hamlet]

for fully cover the whole spawnarea fully afk

[ripe lily]

What could you want from that tho

Brute figs?

[river hamlet]

brute figs and malu-skulls

[ripe lily]

Malu skulls come from NPC farm

[river hamlet]

not that much tbh

yellow convoyer belts, red railway, pink spikes

[trim kestrel]

Geez, let a gamer have their MASSIVE mob farm already! 😜

[ripe lily]

I mean, it should be interesting

Get 8 people to ride it at once

And you'll have so many spawns

[river hamlet]

but how yall think about that layout?

[trim kestrel]

Mobs will spawn up to ~200 tiles away. A little more, I think. So sure, that looks fine. I'd say try your route with rails, then with conveyors and let us know if there's a difference with the amount of drops you get.

But, if you're haling them in with conveyors quite quick anyway, I don't see the advantage of moving around. Just set up in the middle somewhere.

[river hamlet]

uh

i want to use the rails as a "chunkloader"

or u mean with once use rails and once just stand in the spikes?

but anyway the next step is filling up every sand/void with stone

those spawns are craaaazy

[trim kestrel]

I'd say it should be just as effective, and like 1/3 or 1/2 the work, to have a static farm of 200 tile radius.

Because mobs can only spawn around you. As far as I understand it.

If you have extra players helping by standing there to increase spawns, then you'd give them a 200 radius circle each, as far as possible. I assume there's diminishing returns with spawn rate.

The most important factor (after lots of clear stone ground) will be to kill the mobs pretty fast, so they don't block more spawning.

[river hamlet]

i got almost permanently 5 cavlelings on my screen, dosent matter where i am

[trim kestrel]

Make some videos and show us how it's going... 🙂

[river hamlet]

https://medal.tv/games/core-keeper/clips/m9IEF8VWonC-a/d1337QPEeq5G?invite=cr-MSxnN1ksNjk1OTYzOTYs

[river hamlet]

also carrok seeds >>>>

[ripe lily]

hmm, that is a good point

[trim kestrel]

Well. That's a lot of cavelings, for sure.

I did use all my carrok seems seeds on my farm build, to be fair (though I'm lowest on glow tuplips). #📷-ck-media message

Has anyone tested to confirm that cavelings will/won't spawn on sand, in the ruins? It's common ground type there, so wondered if included...

[remote thunder]

about how much health do npc's have

[ripe lily]

100k

with high hp regen

[river hamlet]

sand not... but anyway i will grind the whole sand away

bcs it feels better haha

but they dont spawn on bridges/obsidianground/in mazes

[trim kestrel]

How thoroughly did you test sand? I can confirm platforms and hoed ground are a no-go. Using large partitioned areas.

[river hamlet]

i meant "i tested sand not"

[trim kestrel]

you mean you didn't test sand. 😶 Ok, something to check out then (as it's easier to transplant than stone).

[primal rapids]

just to add, I've tested dirt, but I guess that's not news

as in dirt does prevent spawns

my guess would be it's stone only

but I'm interested if someone tests differently

[river hamlet]

would it make sense to just cover the forrgotten ruins?

so if i would just dig every stone, wich is not "in" the biom?

or just do o big L

but reversed

[trim kestrel]

yeah

take all stone beyond the edges to fill in the gaps.

[primal rapids]

I've yet to get a single ambush in my pacifist world, by the way

not a proof, but a data point

I mean, no caveling has chased me, without me first going out of my way to aggro them

[long dagger]

They could've accumulated over a long period of time, that doesn't prove there's a high respawn rate for them

If I'm not mistaken, some of u said that the conveyors r preventing the npcs from spawning. That's not the case for mobs but would it lower their rates atleast?

[river hamlet]

they did for sure, but still so much more cavelings ive ever seen

[pulsar anvil]

What is this? Drill or you manual kill?

[trim kestrel]

Manual kill, in the chamber Infinity Showed. For, like 2k-ish crit hits and such...

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/977128133142659102/977975865080176691/2022-05-22_NPCs_spawn_into_melee_farm.gif

[sleek trellis]

😭

They go out of their way to bring you top quality goods!

[pulsar anvil]

ahhh okie okie good good

[primal rapids]

@trim kestrel

but I think this is a prefab

not sure if the boulder is part of the prefab?

probably, since there are two boulders

[lilac gale]

There can be, I've had the same prefab in my Ruins with tin nodes

[primal rapids]

looks like shamans don't aggro on ghorm :/

[primal rapids]

I figured an easier malugaz set up than melody's, but credit to melody for the basic idea

[remote thunder]

Is there a full video to see how it works

[trim kestrel]

I was late to the NPC farming party, so am not an authority. And I'm kind of expecting changes to NPC health, or something in Sunken sea, that makes this info obsolete, so haven't made a guide beyond a quick mention in my NPC housing guide.

But Infinity showed their melee farm setup here, dor example: #977128133142659102 message

[trim kestrel]

Ah, nice. Do you know how you can bait second form mal to a specific 2x2 spot reliably, directly after transforming?

My testing shows I can definitely 1-tick his first form, but I doubt they'll hit his second form, because he's invulnerable for a time and has demolished everything 1 tile around his seal on first spawn.

Incidentally, you may be able to 1-tick ivy and glurch this way, even though they will demolish the drills.

[trim kestrel]

Nice, thanks! So that is presumably what @forest lodge was talking about. And I can add that as a " * " to my boulder mining guide. 🙂 Set piece exceptions.

[primal rapids]

nope, I didn't gain much knowledge from this, I'm not even sure why this works

[lilac gale]

This is likely the case yes. It would also presumably be the case for anything that generates dirt as the flooring in the prefab and copper nodes

[trim kestrel]

They you go: arbitrary tick length delays! (I think you asked for this at one poiint @primal rapids?)

In a closed loop, the delay chain becomes a clock of period double the length of time of the delay chain. With 15 stages, the bottom loop is clock with a period of exactly 1 second (on to on transition).

The "1 second" Delay Circuit, on the left is syncopated in this gif because its cycle is out of phase. But it is also longer than 2 seconds, so will shift in phase relative to an actual 1s clock.

Top loop demonstrates that the design can't be compressed. Adding logic gate stages in place of the spacing wires doesn't add additional delay. Transition instead travels 2 stages per tick.

If second activating switch is only pulsed on briefly, it instead sends a pulse traveling continuously around the loop, of whatever length you turned it on for. This would be how you can get clock periods of non-even tick number. i.e. 15 ticks in the case of the bottom loop.

Also, an epic light show (if you add bulbs to the spacing wires)! 😎

[full pawn]

Hi, I have a slime (orange and purple) farm in both bases, one in starter and one in azeos. I noticed that even tho my farm size is smaller in azeos, the drops are higher. Also, my core base farm doesn't completely work, only the bottom half of the farm has loot drops. Is this because of proximity to the core or proximity to the player?

The larva farm works fine in dirt biome, just that azeos one has higher loot drops.

Is there any optimised afk mob farm setups or mob behaviour guide? Would like to find out more info. Thanks~

[trim kestrel]

Ah! So potentially more evidence of what I saw, with azeos having about a 50% higher mob spawn cap for orange slimes!

Does your farm design kill them pretty fast, so a cap on total present inside probably won't be an issue?
Could you post screenshots of each area (on map) circling the approximate location your character spends most time, there?

I've not gotten around to writing a guide in mob farming, as I've not got that much definitive to add to basic ones shown in YT vids. I've pucked up a few things, largely from others here. Hit it would take a lot of big tests to refine the knowledge more definitively. E.g. on regular caveling spawns and in azeos, etc.

[full pawn]

I think all my farms are pretty inefficient as I was skimping on spikes. I'll do a compilation SS of my farms and send over another day...?

I'm worried if its also to do with the spike spacing and other factors. Since I couldn't find much info about how mobs behave.

As for stone biome cavelings, they only respawn in dark areas. Cos I like to light everything, so I couldn't farm for a long time while I was wandering the map... I had to tear out my torches in larger ruins. If there are more ways to increase their spawn, I'll like to know too...

[trim kestrel]

The spawn rates in this game are very low, generally, because mobs are persistent. So spike positioning need not be great.

Although it's optimal to either blanket a spawn surface in spike traps or conveyors, to immediately free up any reduced spawn chance, I think there's not much difference between that and having a mere skeleton on conveyors/spikes, which relies on mob movement to clear themselves.

If you figured out caveling darkness spawning yourself, well done; I'd just assumed they couldn't respawn. Too thorough with my torches.

Sure, send some pics whenever. Don't have to be perfect all-inclusive, first time. 🙂

[trim kestrel]

Hah, that shows there's no hard cap on spawns within 1 tile of existing mobs, I guess 😅 : #🎮-game-discussion message

[analog orbit]

That's because mobs don't occupy that much space after all they are 2d while the game remains 3d

So multiple enemies can spawn in one tile

At least that's my theory

[forest lodge]

Ok, I have a plan, its probably not a good plan, but I'm going to tell you all about it and you tell me how it won't work

a mob farm that is 160 tiles in a circle (80 from the center in all directions) divided into pie wedges. This part I know will work. BUT If I put one or two pie wedges on the border of the stone biome and the wilderness (if that even happens) then in theory all the cavelings, farmers, and stealth hunters should be able to spawn in there, correct?

[long dagger]

I may be wrong but I don't think caveling mobs can spawn outside the stone biome and hunters/farmers can't spawn outside of the wilderness biome even when a large perimeter is made for them with their required ground tiles. If u want a mob farm with both then you'd need to make it on the edge of both biomes but there's a large gap in between which I don't think belongs in either biome so you'd lose rates if ur going for either of the 2 only.

I encountered a bug about a week ago and didn't try much to reproduce but here's what happened. I summoned Easter azeos, killed it, waited long enough to where the soul thing it spawned was about to despawn, I walked about 30 tiles away then came back, a regular azeos spawned out of nowhere and gave its usual loot. I didn't report the bug but feel free to do so, idk if it's easy to reproduce

[trim kestrel]

@primal rapids 's AFK Azeos farm exploited this bug. By staying diagonally down left in the furthers corner where Azeos can't hut you or despawn during the fight.

[trim kestrel]

Right. So, building a large mob farm on the border of the Wilderness and Ruins biomes, you can simultaneously spawn all mob types, I think.

There is quite a large dead zone between them. And my world doesn't happen to have a location for this.

But Cavelings spawn for me out to/past about 150 tiles. That may be a sweet spot, where @serene kraken saw a buildup of spawns, previously. Around max load-in range, they hypothesed. Beyond which existing mobs get unloaded, so they may not cap new spawns.

[trim kestrel]

I think that's what Sarah was saying. Yes, for a Caveling to spawn normally, the stone tile will need to be declared as Forgotten Ruins, in map, when stood on it.

But there are also [raiding] party spawns from regular Cavelings. Which are known to occur even fully within the wilderness. Around an existing number of (captive) cavelings.

[forest lodge]

So my theory that I can build moss from one side and stone from the other until they meet, and (barring the dead zone) both mobs should have a chance to spawn

I just want to make a checkerboard of all the other mob spawning things in the midst of stone and moss and have a battle royale fight to the death of the mobs

[long dagger]

Mold mobs always win unless if u let them get outnumbered and larva eggs get in the way

[long dagger]

I don't understand the bottom half, prob cause of the way u worded it. R u saying a small group of cavelings trapped in a small area will boost mob spawns even in the wilderness?

If so then would a small group of mobs that don't belong in the biome end up boosting mob spawn rates in that biome or is it just cavelings if I understood that correctly

[trim kestrel]

Typo: RAIDING party (not raising party)...

Occasionally (mold) infected cavelings, too, will flank you impossibly, with a group of mobs spawned from an off angle, marauding to your location. Only if there's a clear path.

Mz seemed to think this might only happen if you are attacking other mobs. But I don't know enough about this mechanic to say any which way.

[long dagger]

O the small group of 3/4 that randomly spawn and run directly towards u

I can't say for certain either if u need to attack/kill a mob for that

So that raid group is the only 'boosted' spawns then if there's a clear path? So everything else stays the same? (spawn rates)

[trim kestrel]

Maybe... 🤷

[ripe lily]

@winged knot The circuit to the left of the switch pulses with a period of 4 ticks (7.5 pulse/sec) with a 50% duty cycle. This then gets fed into the arms and drills when the switch is turned on.

inside this chest are the items you want to sort

[winged knot]

how does it sort it exactly...?

[ripe lily]

the green chests are where you want the items to be sorted. Each slot is filled with at least 1 of the items that you want to go into that chest.

the final blue chest is empty and is where any extra items or unstackable items go as they cannot be placed into any of the preceding chests

This is the final result

[primal rapids]

can't say I have any idea of the raiding party mechanics either, but I haven't seen a raiding party yet on my pacifist run

[ripe lily]

what the chests look like after

[winged knot]

interesting! Good to know!

[trim kestrel]

So, it looks like this Redditor accidentally killed one of their NPCs with a series of drill hits!: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoreKeeperGame/comments/v0007t/comment/iag94cq/

It seems that @primal rapids's tree farm design got me beat again! 😅

I think the player was away for 30 minutes, with Beardy NPC stuck on one of the first drills in the chain. Then they came back to within loading distance, but beyond 80 tiles for the physics hit-box of furniture/drills. So the conveyor effect of the drills passed the NPC down the line, through each one. But also getting hit for 20K+ damage, each! See my comment thread with them: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoreKeeperGame/comments/v0007t/comment/iag94cq/

What's also interesting is that the roots didn't grow while beyond 80 tiles, else the drill damage would have unwound on them. Right Mz?

[long dagger]

With about 30 drills u can kill them in just a few min, just did it a few times myself but it isn't good enough for automation yet

Need a way to pull the npcs out of the house quickly and automatically without breakage

[long dagger]

That wiring seems to work for pulling the npc along tho

Dunno if it'll deal dmg or not so I've left the rest of the drills on fully

How fast do u think it could be automated to if the npcs get put on the drill constantly right away on a track of 50+ drills

hmm

aint going well for me, i suck at this

[long dagger]

still doing some small tests then checked my wood farm, it broke...

[trim kestrel]

Oh cool! You got it to work already?! 🙂

What distances did you use for player? Can you refine my estimates of boundary distance of over 150 to 200 tiles away for drills to spool up?

Any other observations?

[long dagger]

i think it was around 130

i dont have a fully working setup yet, about to get off tho

[trim kestrel]

You could have a shortish run within an NPC house (total internal length 63 tiles long at 1 tile wide).

Or adapt my findings with either ejecting NPCs over walls, or better, spawning outside of housing altogether.

I feel like the problem is how to prevent the NPCs starting on the drills too soon, no? Discharging their damage before it's high enough.

Requiring some carefully timed player repossitioning, too.

[long dagger]

i work less on the details and just try getting a working design

i kinda got a spawning setup working but the wall keeps getting destroyed when unloaded

just put the mold wall down to c if thatll fix it but i gtg, cant test it rn

[trim kestrel]

Okies

[long dagger]

sry i couldnt get more info

a few more details about it actually

for the drill path, im not certain but i think the npcs despawn and teleport back to the house if it goes too far so try having the drills go around the house

i used about 100 drills just now and afking for 5ish min worked just fine but idk if itd be consistent

the wall still broke for that test but i didnt use a mold wall yet for it

cya and gl

[trim kestrel]

I'm not sure if pulsed activation of the drills will work to spool up damage... I had a test setup with a boulder and it never produced any ore.

I'd expect the drills to be randomly either on or off (more likely off) when they get unloaded. So might sometimes spool up. But may still not hit if they turn off on reload, before hit detection. Or something else funky happens with electronics...

But anyway, it could still be used for a first drill step, to start the chain. If that's actually helpful.

[long dagger]

ye thats what i used it for since i couldnt get another method working for the npc spawning and pulling them out

[long dagger]

just hopped on and tested it, was away for like 1-2 min and the mold wall broke...

afk for 3-4 min, npcs died, loot was around the 80th drill or so which im guessing may be the limit for the quick kills

mold wall broke too

[lilac gale]

All wall types should break, unfortunately in your case.

[long dagger]

i shouldve placed an obsidian wall back then

but idk if thatd work, only had it happen once for afking a few min where the wall didnt break but sadly the npcs stayed

i think it may still work if thats not the case

since npcs can walk into the drill and take a lot of dmg im thinking about putting drills on the side for extra dmg

can show an example pic in a sec

have the npcs pulled from right to left without the top or bottom drills potentially moving them out

ill prob end my testing there since i cant figure much else out, hf

[trim kestrel]

This would be a good addition if it works. But my experience with drills on the side of regular conveyors is they will just hold the NPC.

[long dagger]

what if they get pulsed

[long dagger]

If they do dmg when pulsed then perhaps having them lined up without being spaced may work

[trim kestrel]

They need to stay solidly on, to spool up damage, I believe.

[shadow grove]

hi anyone interested to create a more overview about university? something like a wiki to sort by topics etc...

[shadow grove]

why your drills makes so much dmg?

[ripe lily]

I plan on doing this after my uni exams, so around when sunken seas is released

[shadow grove]

ok i suggest to use jotform, its a realy nice tool to create something like this

[ripe lily]

nah i was going to create a custom website which allows you to place any core keeper tile on a grid (as you would in game) then share the resultant design.

[shadow grove]

ah you want tto create something likes a web tool to test electricity etc...?

and where you can place tiles on a map? with functions or just optic?

[ripe lily]

Probably just optic, with functions would be basically recreating the game

[lilac gale]

It appears that copper nodes can naturally spawn within the Ruins, as I have just taken time to note

[trim kestrel]

Yes. I have that down in my Guide. But if you catch natural tin, there, let me know. 🙂

[lilac gale]

Ah, I shall

[trim kestrel]

When you go far enough away that they unload, it'll start a timer to figure out how much damage they should have done during this time (if they were powered up). So that they can dispense it all to a boulder, to catch up with mining when you get back.

Game design is often smoke and mirrors (and duct tape).

[winged knot]

I have seen some around ghom's trail? idk if that is natural or not for sure tho...

[trim kestrel]

Those are just within the clay or stone biome, depending what it says at the top right of your map. So expected.

Ghorm forms the ring over the top of natural world gen, on their first orbit, in the first 4 minutes of loading a world.

[trim kestrel]

Todays invention: a 4-stage (arbitrarily long) linear counter. The middle memory loops activate in sequence, one after the other, left to right. Triggered by an arbitrary period clock input, bottom right. Demonstration uses a 6 tick period, 3 gate loop. Reset line across the top activates after the last stage is on and receives another input.

It could be used as a divide by (odd number) stage. Or for e.g. flashing up a string of lights in sequence. Along a path, landing strip, or whatever.

If anyone can figure out a more compact/economical design, I'd be impressed. 🙂 Or better still, one where it's possible to actually output the sequence of activations to something else! 😅

I understood a new electronics system idiosyncrasy, when making this: Core Keeper electronics sends "off" signals. E.g. when flicking a switch to off, or removing a generator, or gate flipping off.

And if an "off" signal is stronger (i.e. closer to the generator that used to be supplying power), it will override a lower powered "on" signal, on the same wire, for 1 tick... 😶

This was causing deactivation of my earlier memory loop designs, even though, logically from connections, their gates should have had two "on" inputs.

I also played with the logic stick + wire randomiser: put both together on the same tile and it will flicker, unpredictable.

I fed this signal into a 30 tick delay loop, to see the time series spread out in space, across the on/off states of the gates. And it indeed looks very random:

What's more: sometimes a stick + wire won't flicker at all. Not until a second gate + wire randomiser is activated near by (but disconnected)!

So it looks like either bad dev programming: either variable arrays being reused without being cleared first. Or else faster than 1 tick state switching, that's flipping phase unpredictably. Or something messy like that.

Anyway. If you integrate the random signal with a delay circuit, it give you a kind of once per second random number generator. In terms of the power output level. Which could be used to toss a coin, roll a dice, or whatever. 🙂

Credit to Kytros for showing off the stick+wire randomiser in this march video: https://youtu.be/TmUl2pQYoOs?t=1365

He suggested using it for spooky lighting and making a door open close unpredictably.

[ripe lily]

Wait a second, do torches act as logic inputs

[trim kestrel]

no

[ripe lily]

Ahhhh, I get it now

[trim kestrel]

Just as illumination. wood tech not compatible with wire tech. 😉

[ripe lily]

Was confused as to how the modules were getting powered. Also my 2 minute clock does a more compact version of this

[trim kestrel]

In terms of the total delay time? Or in outputting a linear sequence of activations...?

[ripe lily]

As in it works the same, just slightly more compact and uses 16 gates instead of 4ish

Oh wait never mind

That's a linear counter

Cool

[trim kestrel]

It'd be cool if it was 2 tiles wide, per stage, and able to actually output signals to elsewhere... 😮‍💨

As it is, it's no use for what I built it for.

[ripe lily]

Tbh my goal is to figure out how to output signals that have each of the 16 levels through a delay circuit

So duty cycle of x/15 where 0≤x≤15

[trim kestrel]

Do you mean, in sequence, up and/or down in intensity? Dimming and/or brightening once per pseudo(delay circuit)second?

One can inject more 1-tick impulses to one of my gate loops. Make it 16 gates around. Then have the delay circuit connected to any one of the stages.

One could add a new impulse in once per delay circuit activation, using a one-tick transition sanitiser thing. Would have to be slightly out of phase with the main loop, by a tick or two, though. By e.g. making it slightly longer/shorter.

[primal rapids]

was it that you confirmed earlier that the flicker rate can't be higher than rendering framerate? because if it was, then it could be that adding more electronics makes the electronics ticks longer and it becomes visible, while it was too fast to be visible before that

or maybe it is possible that it happens in a single tick when only one set up is near, so nothing happens

[forest lodge]

I believe I have screenshots of all the ore nodes in all the biomes

Tin in the stone biome

Copper in Clay, Stone, and Wilderness. Gold in Stone & Wilderness, Iron in Wilderness, Tin in Stone & Wilderness

I swear I saw a gold in Dirt, but I mined it weeks ago if so and I have not seen another so either I'm imagining things or its really rare.

Not sure if you want Gold in Clay, I can grab that next time I see it

[trim kestrel]

Will that particular tin boulder have been part of a prefab/set-piece like this?: #977128133142659102 message

I've now made note of these in my guide. Which already states gold to be found in clay, all to be found in wilderness. 🙂

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2806120066

[forest lodge]

Nope, it was just out in the wild as far as I know, but I dug it out a while ago. If you want another one I will check my current world

Hard to tell tin from iron in stone zone, lol from the map

Even if the tin is part of a preset, and spawning because its clay in the middle of stone, it still is in the stone zone, so it still can be found there, maybe just say 'rare' in a footnote until we find one naturally spawning

[iron scarab]

I'll double check my new world but pretty sure I have one in clay.

[lilac gale]

They so spawn in clay

Do*

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. That's essentially what I'm saying now. I don't want to focus too nuch on semantics, when the idea is just to give players a very quick idea of where to look for the metals they want. 🙂

[lilac gale]

It's already in Zero's sheet

The Tin in Ruins is really the only unknown one rn

Whether it's prefab only or something that can sort of naturally show up

[forest lodge]

I'll keep looking and see if I see any that spawn on stone, not clay in the stone biome

[trim kestrel]

OK. But keep in mind that, like, a 1 natural tin for ever 20 natural iron, I'd still count as not being found there. For the sake of this guide. 🙂

I'm pretty sure much bigger things are going to change than this in the next big patch.

Also, I'm wondering if world gen may have changed between previous patches. My world started in march. So if people find a very clear difference in locations, in a brand new world, that's more significant, probably.

[trim kestrel]

Tick rate appears to be only 30 per second. Whereas my frame rate always exceeds that, but will sometimes take 1 frame or 3 frames to see an electronics update.

That's why my gate loop is useful to see time series for sure, in terms of what's actually happened within the game's engine, at what tick.

.
But anyway. I tried the stick+wire randomiser in a brand new world, and it seemed to behave the same, basically.

The first solo instance didn't flicker continuously. But I see that in my electronics saturated world half the time too. It did kinda randomise the output state, when power cycled.

And a second instance had solid spooky action. Even when I moved it half a screen away. Same as this:

So, it looks like you don't need 'noise' from a lot of other electronics interfering either via uncleaned data arrays or, say, CPU burden preventing all the processing being done in a single tick.

[forest lodge]

I'll start a new world to strip mine after sunken sea to check all of this again. I mean, I'll strip mine it for myself, but one of the things I'll look for is this.

[full pawn]

@trim kestrel I took some ss of everything, but i realise there's alot of variances in both setups. :// thinking of redoing the azeos farm since i found a good empty plot of land nearby.

[trim kestrel]

Hey. So following on from this conversation then: #977128133142659102 message

So, it looks like you're getting far fewer drops on the spikes nearer to your AFK position (in the dirt biome farm)?

So the question is, are fewer spawning close to you? E.g. in mini-map range? Or within a certain range of the core? (What's that, roughly?)

Or are mob movements being affected by your presence, or something else, so they go down/left and die there.

Overall, I think players here wouldn't expect too many spawns from farms that size. People go up to like 1000 tile farms, or so, right...?

[full pawn]

Heya, i counted ~20 tiles around my afk spot to the first loot drop in the dirt biome. Maybe i need to stand further away. But I'm afraid of map unloading if I'm too far away. Do you know what the rough distance is for map unload?

I don't AFK that often but for mob movemt, the purple slimes tend to bounce to and fro on the same few spikes once they spawn. So I suspect they dont really spawn near me.

E.g. for stone cavelings respawn, I need to walk away from the cleared out zone, then walk back for the new mobs to appear. but for azeos respawn, I can afk and the farmers and sniper will spawn around me, but not right beside me.

Ps: Is it better to build a vertical strip farm or a square farm?

I'm not sure what you mean by question two. Just gut feeling that for mobs respawn, there's some kind of inhibition zone. But I'm not sure how to verify that haha...

[trim kestrel]

Furnature and automation (including electric doors) unload at 80 tiles (circular radius).

Map and mob and drills at more like 150 tiles, maybe a little more.

[trim kestrel]

I wondered if there is a safe zone around the very centre of the map, where the core is. Or a reduced spawn rate area around it. No one's said so.

[trim kestrel]

it looks like electronics get unloaded at exactly 120 tiles from player and re-loaded at under 100 tiles from player: https://youtu.be/PMiAmKQQs2E

That's a loop of gates exactly 110 tiles long, in 10 tile long sections before the next gate, next to a measuring scale with 5 tile markings. First (furthest right) component at 0, left-most at 111.

Does this potentially fit with what you saw with wood growth and/or conveyors, @primal rapids? This experiment was lazy by comparison... 😅

[trim kestrel]

Oh, and notice that the return signal gets stuck on high power, the second time I unload the furthest right gates and generators.

So wire can carry a phantom signal from components that stopped existing.

Which is one failure mode for automatic chest sorters to break. If the signal generator gets unloaded while on a high output.

Which is an unavoidable possibility, unless you always shut it down when you leave. Or always teleport away from it, so it all gets unloaded simultaneously. Or always depart from it such that chests and drills are all unloaded first, before the signal to them.

[primal rapids]

Well, conveyors were able to move an item 250+ tiles straight, and then the item got stuck on the return, which reproduced nineforty's findings earlier. He made the conclusion that there would be some sort of timer, which is a fair conclusion I guess

[trim kestrel]

Right-oh. Different ranges and mechanics for different types of in-world objects. Awkwardly... 😶

I should be able to easily test the robot arm and drill load in and functional ranges with my setup, though.

[trim kestrel]

Today's invention: a 1 second (i.e. 32 tick) period pulse generator (2 second delay oscillator with frequency doubler).

The frequency doubler circuitry can be used to double any signal, by outputting a 1-tick pulse on any power on/off transition. Except it can't double it's own output, because it's too short. Minimum pulse length of input 3 ticks (I think).

(Note: Discord may not show the the gif frames of the output pulses sometimes. 🙄 )

[full pawn]

Thank you so much! I'll rebuild base on this and keep an eye out on mob spawns.

[trim kestrel]

Keep in mind what Mz was saying just above, that ground tiles, conveyors, items (and maybe mobs) could continue to exist out to 250 tiles, for a limited time, maybe. (I've not studied that myself.)

[trim kestrel]

Have others seen this with farmers/hunters? That they can spawn friends outside of the Wilderness. Like regular cavelings can: https://www.reddit.com/r/CoreKeeperGame/comments/v3adww/continue_a_series_of_interesting_observations/

I wonder if this is just a caveling type mechanic, or an all mob mechanic that we just don't notice with those mobs that have spawn surfaces which we'd just use instead of leashing pre-spawned into enclosures, etc.

[ripe lily]

hes got them on grass floor, does this affect things?

[primal rapids]

it's also difficult to study, because it seems there is some source of randomness involved, as noted in the shorter (128) distance item conveyor timing tests

in my tests it took anywhere from 4 minutes to 10 minutes for an item to do a 128 down and 128 back up conveyor loop

except that my other same length conveyor line was consistently about 4 minutes, so 🤷‍♀️

[trim kestrel]

They speculated that the grass wasn't necessary. And I'd expect not, from similar observations of regular cavelings.

But then the farmers I've kept in my base for many many hours have never spawned more. (They did somehow escape their fenced enclosure the other day though.) So maybe grass is useful...? 🤷

[primal rapids]

huh, that's really interesting 🤔 I hope someone figures out more about the spawning eventually

[long dagger]

I'm guessing that the game doesn't load every individual tile up to around 100 blocks away from the player for different mechanics, I think it's loading chunks to that distance

[trim kestrel]

I think literally everything is loaded out to 80 tiles, when robot arms and other things disappear. Some furniture and drills out to 120, at least. I suspect all ground, blocks and mobs out to 150. But then it may start getting patchy, as Mz says with conveyors. It can go much further. And I feel like there may be time sliced chunk loading there. And wonder if NPCs or player respawn bed might affect that.

[full pawn]

Yo, i was building up a new mob farm. And i realised that I can pass through a fence and wall placed side by side. Maybe thats how your mobs slipped out. The fence was horizontal while the wall was below it.

[trim kestrel]

Mobs can't pass through those spaces. I suspect they might have either teleported a short distance or gotten on top of unloaded objects that then came back and kicked them over.

[full pawn]

I see I see. I wonder if moats or a double door security helps... Idk haha.

Hey, asking for mob behaviour help again. Do I need to clear all my bridges and replace with stone or sand floor in stone biome to increase rates? Does sand work or only stone floor does.

[lilac gale]

To my understanding between those two floor types only stone flooring works, if you're spawning cavelings that is. Also, yes any amount of extra floor you create will improve rates since it's another spawn tile for potential mobs to spawn on.

[primal rapids]

I think someone said mobs can pass through, for example, the fence gap trick, but they don't see it as valid for path finding so normally they won't unless pushed

it feels like that may be true, but I haven't tested extensively

[iron scarab]

I have fences at my farms and never had one escape. There are spike traps but no drops have ever been on the other side.

[lilac gale]

I mix void blocks and fencing to prevent that issue. It does happen on rare occasion that they get shoved through or something else happens

So I use two forms of outbreak prevention to keep that from happening as much as possible

Void block is interior to the fencing, so it could technically be considered the last ring of the farm before the fence barrier

[full pawn]

What is void blocks?

[lilac gale]

Dig up the ground

That is void

I use that

[full pawn]

Oh i see, thanks for explaining

[lilac gale]

Sorry it was confusing, could have just said I dig a trench like you had said above lol

[full pawn]

I just saw a shaman spawn 10 radius away from me. Spooky

[lilac gale]

Yep, mobs can spawn I believe it's as close as 7 tiles

It's definitely a little offputting to see happen

[full pawn]

Yeah I got better spawn rates opening the map. nicee

[trim kestrel]

Nah, at least most mobs are hard blocked by horizinal fences player can slip past. E.g.: https://youtu.be/YeFhkft-R4Y

Some TP'd out (or spawned around) that instance, though.

And I'm pretty sure my farmers TP'd too, since I found my merchant 20 tiles from his cell, in an impossible location. Plus a grub, too, about 30 tiles from an enclosed decorative build they spawn in.

It seems that sometimes the game just misplaces mobs...

[trim kestrel]

Oh, I didn't think there'd be a close range limit, after seeing slimes and moldlings spawn right in front of me... But for cavelings to, that does seems weird.

[lilac gale]

They set a limiter for close to the player because of mold dungeons

people complained early on about them spawning next to them and killing them

[trim kestrel]

Oh, that would suck, for sure. To get sucker-punched by a spawn right atop of you...

I'm now pretty sure there are good and bad search patterns for e.g. chipped blade (and clear gemstone) in the wilderness...

I finally got around to looking for my chipped blade, armed with the insight of how wilderness spawns new features dynamically as you explore. Different when I went back to an old save and re-explored the same places.

I found my first little temple within an hour of searching around where I first entered. 80 tiles to the side of my first (due south) rail line. With my first large temple 50 tiles beyond that, that I stumbled on when looking for a glow tulip.

So an expanding search pattern is best. Spiral, or such. And worst is what I did initially: stab a straight line deep in and then retreat straight back out. All the stuff spawns around the periphery of where you've been. So great way to not find the unique/limited features. 🙄 😅

[inland compass]

Why would the spawn mechanics spawn only to the sides? I'm sure it just spawns as new chunks are encountered. There shouldn't be any difference between a chunk loaded "in front of you" and one loaded to the "side".

More likely that the structures have a higher chance of spawning based on radius, thus an arc search pattern would be the best, but hardest to keep track of.

Ah i think i follow now

These are limited spawn structures

So chances are theybhave spawned to the side as you explore straight out

If you didn't find them directly in your path

[trim kestrel]

Right. Map features in the wilderness spawn around where you go, where your have been. Yes in chunks/lumps, equal chance left/right but never behind you, where you've just been. So technically, twice as likely to the side of you, if you explore in a straight line.

But my point was, the greater the surface area of the parts of the wilderness you've explored, the higher the chance you'll have spawned something in a part you've already been past. (Provided there's a big enough space, and chipped blade temple is pretty small for that.)

.
I think the whole inner map is probably configured at world launch, right? Because parts can be run over by Ghorm. Or maybe the outer part of that is dynamic too...?

And the boss locations are fixed on wilderness spawn, Azeos and Ivy...? Although the large temple is spawned dynamically, too, and that's a one-off, right?

So merits testing for each specifically, perhaps. To confirm which search pattern is best for them. Although it matters less when they have to be on a specific radius arc.

[inland compass]

Yeah just depends if the structures have a radius preference. Otherwise if you're searching for ivy as well, you could do straight shots out to the 900 tile radius, then back in.

Similar to maze checking on the stone biome.

And you'd want to start at the edge of the wilderness

[lilac gale]

I can somewhat corroborate the claim of them spawning on the sides of you. I've had tons of them do so while doing the whole 100k thing. Not the limited quantity ones, but the other rarer prefabs in the Wilderness.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, make sure you start all the way on one side and work across, else it could spawn the side you didn't search towards, like most of my stuff did. heh.

[inland compass]

Yeah, assuming it loads chunks in a radius around you, you'd have front, left, and right. So twice more stuff spawns than you see

[trim kestrel]

Depending on feature size and spawn range relative to the width of what you can see....

[lilac gale]

As to the inner portion of the world, I'd like to think it's got some form of procedural generation added to certain elements of it, such as the mazes and other key prefabs. If it does not actually have this and it's all determined by the seed, I have to question why the possibility to have key areas of interest spawn on Ghorms intended path can happen. I wouldn't believe it too difficult to blacklist a distance range in the code to prevent that sort of thing.

[inland compass]

Could be the ghorm was added after the prefab world logic

[lilac gale]

That's possible

I don't fully understand the development stages they had during the game life before I came to play it

[trim kestrel]

Well, (a) early access game, small studio, proceedural generation is hard/impossible to be right all the time. (b) There's a little variation in Ghorms path, and you don't want to make absence bands too obvious. (c) it's cool to have remarkably weird map gen sometimes. (d) what Craigins said. 🙂

[lilac gale]

I can understand some of the points, however the general trail of Ghorm follows within a set parameter. It wouldn't, especially for areas that can generate in two biomes, be too hard to block the area possibly affected. I don't so much mind it getting destroyed by Ghorm while enraged and trying to strafe into the player, for me it's more the fact that in those cases the player had no possible means of getting to and obtaining anything within before it was completely destroyed.

I do also enjoy wonky world gen, but especially with high value items like the clear gem I think it would be best to not force the player to either trade or simply create another world because of something outside their control.

I also understand that Ghorm doesn't initially have their full trail and that they create it as the world is in it's first minutes, but it still is feasibly impossible for a fresh character to go to and obtain anything that might be found in Ghorms path before it would be destroyed.

[trim kestrel]

Is this maybe why (new) players are now finding the clear gem maze in the wilderness? Or is that not every new map, still?

[lilac gale]

Possibly, the most recent world I made had it out there

[trim kestrel]

Cos, yeah. The possible places enrages ghorm might obliterate is quite large, right? Or does he only ever go inwards...?

[lilac gale]

The rage distance from what I've noticed stops after roughly 50-70 tile deviations each way

I'm not certain of the maximum distance, but I am aware the area is small enough to prevent it from being ran into hive mother

[trim kestrel]

Oh, both ways, eh? Right. That would be funny, though, if ghorm took out hive mother... not game progress breaking, though... And provided her seal stayed there (like boulders) you can still farm her.

[lilac gale]

I would assume that those areas are grief protected, but I'm not certain. I initially thought that since it doesn't destroy it's own and convert it into regular dirt that would be enough to explain it away, but the ground under the glyph/seal is dirt, while hive is, well hive floor. It may attempt to deface it and turn it into dirt. It would be an interesting thing to know though.

[trim kestrel]

Be amusing if you could cage Ghorm's path with hive blocks, take him for walkies... 😅

[inland compass]

Ghorm based enemies would be awesome. Maybe a quarter the size. Attack similar to the movie tremors

[lilac gale]

Oh, I would actually super enjoy that yea

[deft pulsar]

There is a way to test how the world generated. we can create a new world, but not login yet, make a file back up to duplicate it and run a test run to see all the structure . record them then open the back up file and run it again to see any differences?

[primal rapids]

Another test you can do, although it may have a bit different results, is to use the dedicated server to set the seed same for multiple tests. I haven't tested it, but I think I saw seed in the server settings

[trim kestrel]

Sure. But if it does generate dynamically, then you don't need to be that careful. Simply make a save archive to go back to before exploring a part of an existing map, for the first time. As long as you see a distinctive feature.

[obtuse star]

im pretty sure everything is seed based

[trim kestrel]

Everything? Care to revaluate? 🙂

I did a couple quick and dirty tests. Put an archived world file, from 2 hours into my first playthrough, into my second slot. The map file, too, but the existing map file seems to have taken precedence.

Explored out to the small maze in the middle of the stone biome, past Ghorm's ring. I found all the terrain matched up with the original map. But the maze was not there second time around. 🙂 :

My expectation is that this will be true for all pre-fabs. Might go and quickly check on Malugaz arena, but don't want to spend too long on this.

I also tried quickly making new worlds with the same names and icon, and they generated terrain very differently each time. So how's it seeded? Random alpha-numeric you never see?

[obtuse star]

those are whats known as scenes

[trim kestrel]

Is "scenes" how the devs refer to the prefabs/set-pieces (as we've been calling them)?

[obtuse star]

yeah

[trim kestrel]

Still. I'd class them as part of "everything". 😜

[obtuse star]

well i would have thought their placement would be seeded

ghorms trail will probably differ since its made as he moves around too

and he sometimes strays off course a bit

[inland compass]

How about boss locations? Buy the locators for like hive mother and see if they are the same between the worlds

[trim kestrel]

So, I checked malugaz, and his arena was in precisely the same location. So I'm expecting all boss spots to be pre-spawned along their arcs. So precise search pattern for them, specifically, is not so important.

I also found a medium maze with clear gemstone right next to Malugaz, as it happens, when I had none in my stone biome first time around.

Note that it's dropped right into a spot that's mostly chasm. Small maze was too. I think that's what the "scene" spawner looks to try for. But first time around I'd spawned my medium maze into the wilderness, to the side of where I first explored it, before I came back and found Malugaz, here, etc.

[trim kestrel]

I think Ghorm's trail will be exactly the same, if it's a deterministic algorythm. It was no different here, but it's already established within the first 4 minutes of a world, right?

And his spawn location will be determined when the you first load a world. Note, I tried creating a world and then backing out to archive the save. But the world slot goes back to being empty unless you immediately load the world with a character.

[trim kestrel]

Also note the setpiece scene in the bottom right of my screenshots was different. Second time, instead of a house, I got a Caveling mining operation, complete with Cavelings who were actually mining!

I didn't know this was a thing. That scenes can include mobs, too! 😀 I guess I should have twigged from the orange (hive type) larva in the little wilderness farm pens. That couldn't have spawned on the little bit of chrysalis in there.

I made some boss scanners to quickly check Hive mother and Azeos were in exactly the same spots as before. (Even though the wilderness was not unlocked at this stage of the map.)

[inland compass]

So biome placement and boss locations are probably generated at creation, and scenes are created randomly at initial chunk load

[deft pulsar]

Or it is generated when we uncovered the black patches

[inland compass]

That's what initial chunk load means

[deft pulsar]

i think that is the reason why we have some random obsidian patches in the wilderness for future updates

oh ok 😄

[inland compass]

The first time the game loads a new area of the map

[trim kestrel]

Do you think "areas" or "chunks" are pre-defined. Like a grid? I was thinking that it's more dynamic than that. Much of world loading/unloading seems to be on a tile-by-tile basis. So scene and dungeon gen constantly running, looking for a suitable gap to see what will fit, and rolling the dice, to see what you're gonna get.

Some have talked about it running on GPU, right?

[inland compass]

So my guess would be that they are predefined, for loading.

For determining what operates, I'm assuming thats a pure distance calc between player and object, not even tile based

And since the map tiles are 256x256, i believe, i would have assumed that they would load in based on that, but that clearly isn't the case since you had to load in to save the world

[trim kestrel]

"256x256" what? pixels each...? Game's internal distance measurement?

[inland compass]

The map files contain a list of pngs that are 256x256 with indexes that have the core at 0,0

Each pixel is a tile

But that means loading in would load the first 4 tiles immediately

[primal rapids]

I guess you could test that with prefabs (can I keep calling them prefabs) at the edges of the first 4 256x256 areas

Somehow I doubt the 256 chunks in the map correspond to chunks in the world files

[inland compass]

And the gpu usage could be something like terrain tessellation then using values over a certain height as solid ground

Yeah it is just weird to use so many different measurement systems. Makes the code underneath spaghetti

[primal rapids]

We could ask the guy who's building the chunk loader mod 🤪 but I guess that's cheating

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, but then the mini and full sized maps are the only in-game use for the map files, right? So their entire point is to transpose and store the parts of the world file, that you've seen, into a format best suited for rapidly displaying there.

[trim kestrel]

Urgh, yeah. Don't let me tart to getting involved with decompiling to read off values first hand. Think that might have been one of the final nails in my suspension of disbelief with Terraria. (Aside from just burnout, heh.)

[primal rapids]

Takes the fun out of research

[trim kestrel]

How did this go? Did you continue trying? Get a lot of cavelings?

[river hamlet]

Tbh… i had no time the last week(s)

So no more testibg/building

[river hamlet]

I think after ~15 stacks stoneground it loos like this https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/851843901002219560/979664731843489802/unknown.png

[trim kestrel]

Cool let us know if you make any observations about spawning while building it out, even. 🙂

[river hamlet]

@trim kestrel

[trim kestrel]

Heh. Yes, there are cavelings in the stone biome. I think we got that. 😜

But I mean, if you get a feel for how fast they are respawning in bits you've cleared out. And how near or far, or anything quantifiable.

[river hamlet]

Ah, yep 👍

[primal rapids]

time to set some standard for mob spawning tests, and start doing a lot of them in different conditions?

given enough time, you could do full spike floor and count the drops... but it has to be a long time to get over the randomness of drops

are there any other quantifiable ways to test mob spawning

train a YOLO model on core keeper and let it count the mobs 😄

but they'd have to be on-screen

aaaand they'd have to be killed either way to not affect the results

so nevermind

[trim kestrel]

I'd suggest dividing large areas up into cells. This should be a good way to see clearly how far away they will spawn. (Over, 30 minutes, an hour, however long a good number takes.)

Although there may be some interaction with the walls themselves...

I've got a suspicion that brutes might like to spawn against (stone) walls, particularly in nooks, where they can ambush you better.

[primal rapids]

that brute thing reminds me, it feels like hunters and farmers spawn in pairs

like hunter + farmer pairs

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. You could also use full conveyors pulling the mobs to you, on screen, and capture that with video, afk, so you can more quickly scrub through to do a manual count.

[trim kestrel]

Like Hawking radiation; matter anti-matter pairs... 😜

[trim kestrel]

I think if you count total drops, that should give a pretty accurate result. By adding up all the probabilities of all the items you're including.

[primal rapids]

oh, wait, I thought the object detection was a dumb idea, but spikes + object detection would actually be more accurate than spikes + drop count

except that it still has to be on-screen, which would mean a tiny area

[trim kestrel]

Could also tour the spawn area on a rail/conveyor loop, and video that over time, to see when and where stuff spawns. (Again, I'm thinking in cells that fit on a single half screen.)

[lilac gale]

I haven't noticed this, but I have noticed that spawns for these two rotate.

What I mean by this is while clearing my build place in the Wilderness, I'll have a hunter spawn. I kill it, and after awhile I'll have another spawn. That spawn will be a gardener though, not a hunter. They just continuously switch.

I haven't had it ever change from this thus far

It could possibly be chalked up to random chance, but this has been over 2 days, maybe 8 hours total, now I've noticed this.

[trim kestrel]

Interesting. Could kinda explain Mz's observations, too.

And actually, while we've been talking about measuring the typical surface based spawning. The raiding party mechanic would be more interesting, to me, to get any kind of quantification on. When it can/can't happen. What's definitely required and not.

[primal rapids]

see also this ☝️ which looks like a pair too, but I guess the sequential spawns would explain it too

the sequential spawns would explain all the situations I've been in, so can't say I have evidence against it

[inland compass]

I was looking to test this this weekend. Thinking of trapping a caveling near me and see if it spawns raiding parties.

Then add in periodically hitting him with a slingshot and see if it affects it.

[trim kestrel]

Cool. I tried it for like 15 minutes or so, with like a dozen cavelings trapped in a small enclosure, just off screen, in the clay bioome. With and without agro. But got nothing. I'm wondering if more is better, up to a point. But maybe there can be too many...

[iron scarab]

I remember when I saw my last raid party, all I was doing was fighting Malugaz and did not attack anything else. Just randomly appeared, 3 of them.

[trim kestrel]

Actually, come to think of it, I had two brutes sneak up behind me into the Malugaz chamber, when I first entered it, re-exploring my (2 hours played) archived game save.

Had a team of infected impossibly flank me as I was digging through the main mold dungeon for the first time, too, just as I was getting close to the sickle scene.

Maybe certain map features can trigger them, too (as a one-off)?

[iron scarab]

Never encountered any other mob party other then cavelings. Those others sound terrifying 😄

[inland compass]

everything but slimes have raiding parties

When i afk leveled melee and range on the hive mother, I'd get frequent larva raiding parties.

Same with clearing wilderness for my farm, I'd get caveling farmer/hunter parties. And of course the mold dungeon parties are always enjoyable.

[trim kestrel]

I don't think I got this, with my hive other AFK faring... 🤔 But yeah, most mobs do this.

I wonder, if like when my lone caveling near base spawned a solitary friend outside of their enclosure, if that was a very little raiding party. Or if that's mob adjacent spawning as part of the main spawning protocol...

[inland compass]

Was super annoyed, died to it the first night. After that i dug a pit blocking off the entrance and the next night they were jammed up trying to get to me

The following night i used spike traps for a more satisfying result lol

[lilac gale]

Ive never encountered a hunting party during Malugaz, and I've fought him on 9 different worlds now

If it would be a one-off case it is chance based

[trim kestrel]

Ok, ta. I probably just picked them up along the way, fighting through the stone area. (To be clear, they were only upon entering the chamber, not fighting Malugaz.)

[lilac gale]

It may have been a conveniently timed raid when you entered

[primal rapids]

Wow, I'm impressed you got the door trick working that efficiently. I was playing around with it for hands-off malugaz, and concluded it too unreliable and gave up.

[ripe lily]

@trim kestrel ever have this happen to you while testing?

the door just refuses to push me

[deft pulsar]

is there anyone has a compacted and reliable sorting system? things that wont break the chest when we go too far away from it?

and also, any good way to collect loots from mobs farm?

[ripe lily]

yes, #977128133142659102 message

you have to turn it off when you leave still (you don't if you construct it so the power source always gets unloaded last, I think this hasn't to my knowledge been tested), but there is no other method that works to sort items currently, and if you teleport to travel the world it is safe every time.

e.g. have your storage and farms deep in the azeos wilderness where you will never normally walk. Set your bed to always only be here. Setup the rest of your base at the core. Then teleport to your storage/farms whenever you want to get items.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, you mean this little thing? https://youtu.be/T8DWen59A7M

Why thank you. 😅

Even built reliable, it's useless. And I used a manual door jump to pop over malugaz arena wall (to the side afk spot). But you can't send electrical signals through obsidean and mal tends to break even the basic door if he catches you in the wrong spot.

[trim kestrel]

Looks like your door hitbox is glitched sideways, still. This seems to happen if you change the orientation of the door by removing walls while it's animating.

I should report it really, but held off incase I found make use of it. But it didn't seem to help, as a way to let player be conveyored into a 'hoikable' position... 😢

[ripe lily]

yeah, i think you can make the circuit a little more compact, by doing a clock that alternates so alternating doors get powered, but i couldn't figure it out in the 15 mins i had to work on it.

[trim kestrel]

My version of the chest sorting build wiring broke most of my chests the other day.

And thinking about it (as I think I mentioned above), I think it's impossible to come up with a wiring design that will never kill your chests. Given the way electronics works as it's unloaded, a row of blocks at a time. And how drills spool up to do extra ramage if powered when unloaded.

You just have to flip the power off when you leave. Or make sure you leave (and return) by teleportation, only.

[ripe lily]

the only way to do it, as far as i can tell, is to only be able to reach the sorting system by teleporting

[primal rapids]

by the way, I managed to pop a mold wall with the scarlet hoe somehow, wasn't that supposed to be fixed? I wonder if it's reproducible

[trim kestrel]

Did it have something hoe-able under it, like a caveling tile? (I didn't know this was ever a bug.)

Scarlet hoe's a bit random in general, as to when it will and won't work on dirt, when running along trying to hoe a large area.

[lilac gale]

It was a bug while on the experimental, and was supposed to be fixed.

[primal rapids]

It could be, I wasn't paying attention and couldn't reproduce it on the spot. That's what I thought immediately as well, that there may have been something underneath it, but I couldn't think of anything other than the mold veins, which actually prevent tilling the ground and won't pop with the hoe 🤔

I wasn't in a "temple" portion of a mold dungeon

[trim kestrel]

Mould floor underneath then? (Not platform, in that case.)

[primal rapids]

can't remember other details

[lilac gale]

My thought if not the flooring is a dig spot

Since those occasionally bug out to be on mold flooring when they generate over one

The dig spot might cause the wall to pop off somehow

[primal rapids]

ah, right, it could be something the mold dungeon generated over

[primal rapids]

another thing: could we determine some sort of chunk sizes from these corrupted (GPU issue?) worlds #🎮-game-discussion message

that's not the first time I've seen screenshots of it, but I don't know if it's possible to find the previous ones

[inland compass]

That was my thought as well, seeing that section to the east looks like we could get an accurate measure

[primal rapids]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/851843901002219560/984888612699123802/unknown.png

[trim kestrel]

That does look very chunk-like, doesn't it... And so it seems like dungeons aren't using GPU? As it generated in the dead zone...?

Or is that a square cut-off to it?

[primal rapids]

I think dungeons, prefabs and maybe crates and such are "spawns" like mobs

[inland compass]

I want that section

[trim kestrel]

Dungeons will be different code... But I'm thinking I was wrong, that that is a chuck cut-off at the left edge of the dungeon.

[inland compass]

He posted it in general

[primal rapids]

that's interesting

[trim kestrel]

Good work @zinc seal, thank you. 👍

[primal rapids]

ah, that's azeos crystals probably 😄

if that's azeos, didn't check

[inland compass]

So that answers a few questions. People complaining about being locked in a circle of obsidian

That could be the extend of initial world generation

[trim kestrel]

Right.

All of it is dynamic past the core scene.

[primal rapids]

I think the initial circle is probably a prefab that generates on top of a full obsidian world

[inland compass]

And it just deletes obsidian as it generates

[primal rapids]

same way the mold dungeons and larva dungeons in that map image

[trim kestrel]

And it makes me wonder about people who claim to have found no twin dolls shrine despite searching 5 or so fresh worlds with grubzooker, etc. Could it be that one can explore too fast to allow scenes to spawn in?

[primal rapids]

or in a wrong pattern?

[trim kestrel]

Or with high GPU load or some related GPU issues...?

[inland compass]

Interesting, like a 2 pass world generation? Terrain then scenes

And maybe restricted scenes to unvisited chunks?

[trim kestrel]

Could be. I mean, it'd have to be sequential, in stages, to decide on if a scene can reasonably be situated in the map topology.

[primal rapids]

the smallest chunk I can find in that image is 64x64 by the way

[inland compass]

I would assume the scene replaces all topology

Like the mold dungeon replacing obsidian

[primal rapids]

mold dungeons also generate on top of thorn wood sometimes, popping the thorn wood as (rare) items

[inland compass]

Nice Mz, makes sense. Any idea if it falls on the 256x256 mapparts boundary?

[primal rapids]

it looks like it does, the 64x64 areas align with core so that core is in the intersection

[trim kestrel]

Right, I was just meassuring these. Looks like 128^2 and 64^2.

[inland compass]

K so same coordinate system for maps and chunk loaders

At 64 that means the 80 tile radius is not a chunk restriction for activity

[primal rapids]

The game does use radius a lot as well. Bosses have a protected area that's a radius. Roots growth distance is a radius. Ranged mobs' range is a radius.

[inland compass]

Interaction is a radius too

[primal rapids]

so it could be that loading/unloading is some combination of radius and chunks

maybe that somehow causes the various loading/unloading issues

what do you think makes this part of the map possible?

[trim kestrel]

Which type of wall will he be seeing? Is it all plain obsidian? Or are the inner bits like the boundary perimeter?

[trim kestrel]

You mean, it's improbably narrow, to have explored down the middle without making it wider?

[primal rapids]

I mean it's improbably narrow

does the existence of azeos pre-generate it?

[trim kestrel]

Or, is that azeos spawn there?

[primal rapids]

I think that's azeos

[trim kestrel]

Right.

Pre-generated? Or rather, insta-add-on to when the chunk above is generated.

[primal rapids]

it's two chunks deep though

[trim kestrel]

I mean, as soon as the upper of the two got generated, the azeos spawn got appended to it too. For a smooth transition of landscape.

[inland compass]

How many tiles out?

Azeos isnt on a power of 2 radius, it could be like a prefab that loads in the required chunks

[primal rapids]

right, for the scanner to work, the game has to know where azeos is, so it would make sense to spawn in the prefab as well, but to spawn in the prefab the area needs world gen first

[trim kestrel]

And looks like Ruins cities (?) are generated like mold dungeons (which hadn't clikced for me before), whacked on top of the landscape, potentially spilling out to where they shouldn't be:

[primal rapids]

this is a fun one too

generated almost fully in obsidian, but still accessible

[trim kestrel]

Oh, lol, better point well made.

It's weird that the landscape 'underneath' generates after it's already placed... The world file must store a layer of tile data for this, right? A mask so that the background world gen doesn't overwrite the dungeons/hives/cities.

[inland compass]

I bet the scene defines the ground

[trim kestrel]

What do you mean? Beyond itself? (Obviously [the scene] defines it's own ground within it's perimiter.)

[inland compass]

Or do you mean that it doesn't truncate the scene at the chunk?

So only the terrain generation fails. The chunk loader works

[primal rapids]

red/blue is the chunk border, I think the azeos prefab crosses the chunk border so it had to generate 2 chunks, and the player was just very lucky to have the adjacent chunks generated to be able to access it

[trim kestrel]

Ahh, good call.

Unless it was just that they triggered gen for the top half, and that pulled in the bottom half. (Before they moved over to using a dedicated server.)

[primal rapids]

yeah, possible

[trim kestrel]

And do we think Ghorm's passage triggers world gen? Or player's exploration of the ring did, here?

[primal rapids]

I think it does, unless the world is pre-generated up to the ring or something, again my reasoning is the scanners

...or maybe ghorm just moves through obsidian until you generate something for him to destroy 😄

[trim kestrel]

It would be quite processing intensive to have all the map around the ring generated in the first 4 minutes, by Ghorm perhaps... And not necessarily any need to. If ghorm's just moving through solid obsidian....

... Oh and the tiles that are still obsidian are the "mask", of course. I'm dumb. That's the only place terrain gen can write on.

[primal rapids]

remember though that mazes for example are obsidian, so they'd have to be careful not to do world gen after those are in place

if they actually use obsidian as mask

[trim kestrel]

I guess different obsinean type with same appearance?

[primal rapids]

could be

[trim kestrel]

This is all great fun. It's kinda like astronomy, looking out at a huge swath of weird stuff laid out in front of you, and trying to figure out a narrative of how it came to be. 🙂

[inland compass]

So we are going with

1. chunk created
2. terrain generation attempt
3. scene locator
4. create additional chunks as required by scene
5. place scene

If they don't completely redo the chunk process, this may be the missing doll shrine

If a scene force loads a new chunk, but they don't do scene placement for that chunk due to possible infinite cascading chunks

You could miss out on scenes with limited valid placements

[primal rapids]

infinite cascading is a good point

[inland compass]

Would be interesting to test a new world dirt biome. If a scene spans the far edge of a chunk, if the adjacent chunk is sceneless

I guess mold dungeons are probably the best source since they are so large

I'll update the maptool tonight to show chunk gridlines as an overlay

[primal rapids]

I already put the image away, but another thing I wanted to point out: apart from the azeos chunks, the smallest ones are 2 and 3 chunks wide. So the generation distance is between 64 to 96 tiles?

[primal rapids]

was just thinking about this 😄

[primal rapids]

I guess it could be less, or more if it's a radius

[inland compass]

Oh like triggering chunk loading from player location

That could be a good hack to know when trying to explore

Like if you only generated the front and left chunks, reduces seach space

[primal rapids]

Actually, I think the 2x2 chunk area to the west kind of requires it to be at most 64 tiles, unless prefab shenanigans

[inland compass]

We may be able to reproduce it

"That's the point I'm trying to make: It seems you absolutely must have a GPU to run the dedicated server. You can bypass this with -nographics but if you do, you'll get blocked in when it can't more world."

Actually get some emperical chunk load tests

[primal rapids]

Ah, I was wondering if there was an easy way. -nographics it is then

First test I wanted to do: walk straight to ghorm path, turn off graphics, explore the path

[zinc seal]

here.

[gusty epoch]

Only generates set pieces beyond the wall if you run with -nographics lol

[inland compass]

Yeah capt.

The current theory is scenes are generated at chunk load

[coarse shadow]

ok

[inland compass]

Whether terrain generation succeeds or fails

And from the images, looks like chunks are 64x64 tiles wide

Scenes are the prefabricated structures of the world

[zinc seal]

There wasn't any indication that terrain generation failed without a GPU.. 🙂

[inland compass]

Yeah we just know that from other users

[zinc seal]

then again.. if forced it to not have one 🙂

[zinc seal]

yes that was azeos

[hasty ruin]

are the logs written to a folder?

[zinc seal]

same folder as there launch.sh is

[hasty ruin]

whats the name of the file

[zinc seal]

oh SHH** it just crashed

[coarse shadow]

ok, so I went in and hit a few things like normal but things reappeared and I could no longer hit them but also couldn't get through them as well. Ya, I got kicked too.

[zinc seal]

Other than 0.mapparts and 0.world, is there any other game data that needs to be copied over?

[inland compass]

Out of memory on the vm?

Mapparts is character specific

[zinc seal]

no. The dedicated server is now running on my gaming machine.

[inland compass]

Ahh

[zinc seal]

Not a VM anymore

[inland compass]

I think just the .world file

[zinc seal]

i copied the world and mapparts file

[primal rapids]

worldinfo(?) has the name and icon and such, but they're encrypted files and corrupt easily

For dedicated server those are probably not needed

[zinc seal]

yeah not sure. looking at the stack trace.. nothing realliy pops out as anything. Just trying to access a memory address that doesn't exist anymore.

[hasty ruin]

so loaded it up on a windows vm server 2016 i think , no green wall. docker seems to be the problem as i dont think its passing any gpu support

[zinc seal]

i'm not using docker

[hasty ruin]

linux?

or i guess whats your setup

[zinc seal]

Uh. No dude. Google Compute engine, Ubuntu 18 LTS. e2-standard-2

[hasty ruin]

ah

[zinc seal]

That is what i was running it on

[hasty ruin]

lol launch a windows vm

[zinc seal]

costs too much. at that point, i'll just leave it running on my gaming computer

[hasty ruin]

haha yah

[zinc seal]

@inland compass you were the one who wrote the maptool? So you figured out the json file inside the gzip?

is it open sourced? I'm curious what the struct is.

[inland compass]

Mz was the one who did the prototype of that

But it is just a list of pngs and a list of tile x,y coords

Nothing fancy really

And yeah i have it up on github somewhere

[zinc seal]

i opened it once. didn't really dive in

[inland compass]

But it is all client side anyways

[zinc seal]

yeah i guessed.

[trim kestrel]

Messing about with this could be a way to get a definitive idea of the outlines of scenes E.g. for wiki. (Although if people are decompiling, I imagine there might be a more direct route.)

[gusty epoch]

There's no real way to get out there and see em without cheating tho

[trim kestrel]

Surely first test is to load into a world then immediately exit, switch to -nographics and see what does and doesn't spawn in the first few seconds.

[trim kestrel]

I mean, just the map view you showed lets you see where you'd cookie-cutter an image of an accessible one...

Remind me why you can see that temple scene on the map at all, btw? 😕

[gusty epoch]

https://tenor.com/view/sweating-nervous-paranoid-gif-4974019

[lilac gale]

There are.. they involve multi-player though.

[gusty epoch]

oh really?

[lilac gale]

Yea, just creating a laggy enough experience for the client will allow them to phase through walls

[gusty epoch]

I made a -nographics new world, gonna give Ghorm some time to run around a few before I head out and see if he's even there lol

[lilac gale]

The easiest way to achieve this used to be using the cartography table

[gusty epoch]

oh true

[lilac gale]

You could get through pretty much anything lol

[gusty epoch]

Yea that makes sense

Kinda like when the worlds were getting corrupted lol

[lilac gale]

Yep

[gusty epoch]

yes yes, ghorm

[lilac gale]

Oh neat

[gusty epoch]

hmm

[trim kestrel]

"Research tools" for "research purposes"... (I was just checking I wasn't being dumb for once.)

[trim kestrel]

Ah, cool. So he doesn't generate the world around him. Just noms on obsidean...

Now do Azeos spawn! (I wonder if using the locator for that might cause it to start existing...?)

[trim kestrel]

Is that spawn seal scene ever found at rotations between 90 degrees of that? (Like the tile pattern would need to be transformed, or dynamically created.)

[inland compass]

shouldn't he chomp the chrysalis?

and bones

that means he spawns somewhere on his track and not his seal

chunk grid added

assumes a 64x64 grid based on what we saw earlier

[forest lodge]

I don't know if you have already discussed this, but I have a world where Ghorm runs right through a caveling villlage, you can see about 2 or 3 squares of the bottom of one of the dark grey rectangles you find in the village.

[lilac gale]

I believe that Ghorm spawns a short distance in front of the seal itself, sort of so that there is a continuous line from the seal to the eventual circle it creates.

Which is why the aesthetic parts of the seal area remain.

[inland compass]

So with what we've discovered, if you are hunting for things in the stone biome, you'd want to load in, use the hive mother locator, mine out to the ghorm path and kill him. Then head the opposite direction and explore the stone

that way he doesn't eat any of the scenes that get spawned

then do the reverse if you are looking for the clay biome

[lilac gale]

You'd have to be pretty fast and a little lucky with getting to ghorm before it goes into the stone

Depending on where he starts it may be not possible on some worlds

[inland compass]

no, the point being, scenes and terrain are not loaded until the chunk is loaded

so if you go the opposite direction, he is just chewing through obsidian

kill him, then go back to stone and it should load and populate the stone

[trim kestrel]

Scenes like the maze are spawned by player exploration near by. But does Ghorm plough them next orbit, or do they spawn with his track already through them...?

And is this something that happens any more? At least enough to worry about?

[zinc seal]

I've devised a grid system for myself @inland compass

help me design

@inland compass btw. update on the server. since moving the files from linux dedicated server (the one without the GPU) to windows.... the ded server crashes a lot 😦

[trim kestrel]

What kind of thing are you aiming to do...?

[zinc seal]

========== OUTPUTTING STACK TRACE ==================

0x00007FF90E19EC9F (lib_burst_generated) Ordinal0
0x00007FF90E1A6107 (lib_burst_generated) Ordinal0
0x00007FF90E1A641B (lib_burst_generated) Ordinal0
0x00007FF90E1B6737 (lib_burst_generated) Ordinal0
0x00007FF8F3762830 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3DBD051 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F40B0C95 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3048068 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3AA44AE (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3DBFF21 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3E248F9 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3C08995 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F4A22110 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3E248F9 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F4A22110 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F3E248F9 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F4A22110 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
0x00007FF8F34D01B2 (GameAssembly) WriteZStream
  ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF8F2A4D7AC)
0x00007FF8F2A4D7AC (GameAssembly) (function-name not available)
0x00007FF8F2F44D09 (GameAssembly) UnityPalGetTimeZoneDataForID
0x00007FF8F7C2E1F8 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FF8F7C41D02 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FF8F7AE2F46 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FF8F7AE2F60 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
0x00007FF8F7AE6CB8 (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
  ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF8F78A8A9A)
0x00007FF8F78A8A9A (UnityPlayer) (function-name not available)
  ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF8F78A6F5B)
0x00007FF8F78A6F5B (UnityPlayer) (function-name not available)
  ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF8F78ABEFF)
0x00007FF8F78ABEFF (UnityPlayer) (function-name not available)
0x00007FF8F78AD06B (UnityPlayer) UnityMain
  ERROR: SymGetSymFromAddr64, GetLastError: 'Attempt to access invalid address.' (Address: 00007FF65D1511F2)
0x00007FF65D1511F2 (CoreKeeperServer) (function-name not available)
0x00007FF977637034 (KERNEL32) BaseThreadInitThunk
0x00007FF978602651 (ntdll) RtlUserThreadStart

it's pretty much this error.

@trim kestrel I'm basically making a medieval castle. slowly

at least the major features.

[trim kestrel]

Looks ambitiously proportioned. What's the grid for, just reference for symmetry?

[zinc seal]

yes.

so i've incorporated something that was already in the game.

it was a little cool looking area. used that as the center and using it as a water feature.. then everything else goes around it

that's the original center

[lilac gale]

Oh right, I had not gone fully through what was sent while I was at work

I see what you're talking about now

[inland compass]

I would assume the plows through them on the next sweep.

Could also eat things amber larva.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, I liked that scene too. So I took it home for Easter... https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/966628768099733555/967255855131160646/2022-04-23_Core_Keeper_Easter_Trinity_1.gif

But we've strayed off topic I feel. heh.

[trim kestrel]

Presuming these things aren't (now) excluded from the Ghorm ring radius.

But provided one heads straight to the ghorm ring and kills him, there's only a small chance they could spawn in front of you, onto the ring, as he's coming past. Right? I mean, simple strategy: stright to ring, stay still, kill ghorm. 🤷

[trim kestrel]

So, erm, minor update note on this observation of delay circuits being 32 instead of 30 ticks (i.e. not exactly 1 second)...

I realised (while laying awake with insomnia) that it's the 1 tick latency of putting a state transition onto wire that creates the extra 2 tick period of the delay oscillator circuits.

E.g. These two delay oscillators are not equivalent; left has (I think) 31 tick period. right 32 ticks.

So when they're are turned on simultaneously, they reach anti-phase after 31-32 ticks. 😐

Logic gates and delay circuits directly connected transmit their state changes instantaneously.

But one tile of wire is required in the loop, to be able to output a signal, so you still can't get an exactly 30 tick (1 second) clock, simply.

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, I set these up a month ago, over 100 in-game hours... 😶 I think I may have to revise my mining guide, where it says drills drop to a minimum of 1/2 rate. 😆

I've struggled to get any sensible amounts of damage out of drills spooled up, in theory, at boss spawns. I think that reloading the world looses the spooled up damage, or something like that... Drills really perplexing me. For all their potential, I kinda just hope the devs fix them to work as intended.

[long dagger]

I did have issues with drills on a new world, I'd afk a fair bit and after a few sessions the ore deposits nearby were gone but the ones further away didn't collect much ore.

[coarse shadow]

Those Larva still make the hair stand up on the back of my neck.. eeesh 👀

[last moss]

is running xp awarded by distance traveled? i.e. does having swift rings equipped increase the rate of xp gain?

[gusty epoch]

Tiles crossed is how it’s calculated afaik

[last moss]

sweet, thank you

[gusty epoch]

But you have to be actively moving, so conveyor and minecart don’t count

[last moss]

right, I've got the bed > path > suicide booth setup, just wasn't sure if I should equip speed jewelry

[gusty epoch]

Also swift feather doesn’t count either

[last moss]

do you know if swift ring would?

[ripe lily]

the passive speed increase items do count

[last moss]

sweet, thank you both for the info!

[primal rapids]

I tested this with dirt on top of wire. Didn't work at least with that set up, so there has to be more to it, or there just wasn't anything underneath.

huh, I messed more with the wire + dirt set up, and I'm sometimes able to till the ground underneath the dirt, but both the wire and the dirt stay intact

[primal rapids]

another test: dirt wall on top of an X: I was eventually able to dig the valuable, but the dirt wall stayed intact

any other ideas? 😅

I returned to the mold wall location and there was a valuable on the ground, so the X theory could make sense

[inland compass]

More potential evidence of scenes loading chunks causing fewer scenes to be loaded

(their original comment was about finding no mazes)

[trim kestrel]

Btw, when i re-explored my 2 hours save archive, the ruins villages were in the exact same place. 2 of them, i think. So maybe pre gen, or deterministically placed on exploration.

We could do with a cheater specialist researcher, to explore a whole new seconds old map (after toggling -nographics). 🤔

Btw, what's the shallowest into the wilderness anyone's found a chipped blade?

A reddit poster searching for one eventually got it at around (just beyond) Ivy depth. Like me.

[trim kestrel]

Are you actually killing your character? Or using an electrical door to reset to bed? Like I suggest?: https://youtu.be/T8DWen59A7M?t=134

I'm curious if players think there is an advantage either way (for non-hardcore chars)..? One could use a very simple macro to top up a food speed buff every minute, too. Too cheaty?

[ripe lily]

Its probably not worth the food, spawning in your bed resets your food anyway

[inland compass]

speed food

i built a track that was the length of 50% the speed buff time. would run out, back, eat, repeat

[ripe lily]

this is my track

[inland compass]

is that the chipped blade temple?

[ripe lily]

yes

[inland compass]

i have 2 near azeos

that left one is very close to the great wall, inside azeo's radius

[ripe lily]

yeah mine is real close to the great wall

like less than 50 blocks from where i first entered the wilderness

[trim kestrel]

By which you mean it clears all your buffs? As your hunger clearly wasn't reset.

Good call on the conveyors, of course.

[ripe lily]

it is reset to 75%

[trim kestrel]

You used a simple script to dose food then?

[lilac gale]

I can say I have found one past Ivy, maybe 1.2-1.5k in. Closest is before Azeos by maybe 50-75 tiles.

I'll have to get a ss, I don't think I have one on hand.

[trim kestrel]

Ok, thanks all. Just checking there's definitely no shortcut to specify a range to search at.

[ripe lily]

so you can afk and hold down "d" and you never have to eat any food

[inland compass]

Yup, used my razer keyboard to do it.

[lilac gale]

I personally would say there is a maximum distance to stop searching at, but the minimum would have to be basically the entrance.

[trim kestrel]

Right, with that type of simple macro, I wonder if you could get faster running skill by tapping back and forth over a tile boundary? Did we say that works to increase skill, Peace?

Like, you'd need to bound it with a fence either side, or something the make sure your average position didn't drift.

[lilac gale]

If you could figure out a way to rapidly change your distance number it might rapidly give xp, but it would be hard to test how effective it is without the use of probably some mods or more extensive testing.

[inland compass]

Just when the minimap ticks over right?

[ripe lily]

do you move faster when going on a diagonal?

[lilac gale]

The xp system for running as I understand it currently gives xp for any change in your distance in reference to your x and y coordinates (I call this slope distance for simplicity sake).

[lilac gale]

You gain slope distance faster this way

[ripe lily]

so just run away from the core on a diagonal, would probably be the most efficient

[lilac gale]

Possibly Craig, I'm not 100% though.

[ripe lily]

at sqrt(2) times the straight line speed

[trim kestrel]

What's the units of distance though? Is it finer than map tile co-ordinate?

[lilac gale]

It's singular tiles Zero

[inland compass]

If it is pure x,y distance and not tile, then conveyor belt running will the the best still

[lilac gale]

Each tile you can place on displaces you one x or y coordinate from the core in a positive or negative direction.

[trim kestrel]

So doing a rapid circular dance around a tile corner could be optimal?

[lilac gale]

However it appears to record a third distance also, which is the slope of your current displacement. Which I think is what actually gives the xp. Since 0,0 is where you drop into the world.

[lilac gale]

Possibly, I would need to test that with some fresh characters.

[inland compass]

Probably easier to just ping pong between 2 tiles

[lilac gale]

My reasoning for the whole belief of slope distance being the xp given measurement is that my hardcore character needed to gain roughly 400k xp to finish leveling running, and yet finished leveling before I even went 30k into the Wilderness.

Granted I did a couple back-tracks, but nothing that would have even remotely been equivalent to 400k individual tiles of movement purely on the x or y coordinate plains.

I'm pretty sure I hit 100 Running around 27k

[inland compass]

If it is just changing tiles you could put 2 belts facing each other and hop back and forth. But the x,y change per tick probably makes more sense

[lilac gale]

I'll have to find some down time and use a couple characters to see how much xp I can gain for going the same distance in different manners.

[ripe lily]

I just did a test, rand the same track with and without conveyors, i earned the exact same xp for the same distance covered but the conveyors was finished faster

[trim kestrel]

Good job verifying your setup. 🙂

[trim kestrel]

But conveyors alone don't give XP. You'd need to be holding a move key as well, right? (Or gentle push on a thumb stick... 🤔)

Are there any little glitches that cause the player to vibrate position?

[inland compass]

correct, tapping keys back and forth to cross the threshold

[trim kestrel]

Oic conveyors just for a centering bias, smart.

[trim kestrel]

I think I've disproved the tile boundary crossing hypothesis (if there ever was one, not just my misunderstanding):

I built a new character into a 1 tile cell at spawn and was very clearly still able to level up running skill by either moving back and forth vertically or horizontal (slower with less space either side of collision box).

I think it goes off whatever code consumes the food bar, too, right? (Except conveyors alone don't work.)

[lilac gale]

We've seen the correlation between food consumption being required for running xp gain before yes, it may just be as simple as that.

[trim kestrel]

Running in place, against a conveyor or not, does nothing. Of course...

So currently thinking the main thing to test is diagonal running tracks (verses horizontal). Should be fine to automate those, right? With bed, reset and even alternating sideways/vertical assist conveyors...? More fiddly to build.

Door hoiks (on 2 second loop, pushing into and out of wall) act like conveyors. They use food without giving run skill. Unless you also run in place, in which case you get run skill.

[zinc seal]

Question. 0.mapparts contains the world you explored. What is in the 0.world file? Your character position and items?

[trim kestrel]

0.mapparts is in the "maps" folder, so that's just the pngs to create the (mini) map images.

0.world is in the "worlds" folder and actually contains your world information. including bits you've not seen.

"saves" has you character files (numbered by slot).

Right?

[gusty epoch]

What's the distance from core to the great wall again?

[trim kestrel]

About 450-500 tiles from core spawn.

[gusty epoch]

Explored right side first, then decided it'd be easier to go middle to top, right to left then middle to bottom same

R/L alternating by increments of 10

There's a few parts where it shows obsidian in the middle of nowhere cuz loading I imagine

[trim kestrel]

That barcode pattern?

[gusty epoch]

yea

on the left side lower mostly

[trim kestrel]

So, to be clear, what was your methodology here? Created a new world, saved and exited after a couple seconds, or how long? Then switched on -nographics, came back and used 'special means' to move player all around the map, so it would be revealed?

[gusty epoch]

I just started with nographics

[inland compass]

Interesting. Can you upload an image with the chunk gridlines?

[trim kestrel]

Oh, ok, of course, you can escape the core scene, so why bother... I'd still be very interested to see how much terrain does get generated upon initial spawn though. 😉

And I'm curious about how the cheat thing works, specifically, because if it's moving the player about, effectively, then that'll presumably be when it's spawning all the scenes (every maze type, for example). It's not doing that on world initiation, from what I saw with my test.

[gusty epoch]

Ahh I can test that later, kids are playing vr rn

I just used noclip to fly around

[trim kestrel]

Oh, but tbh, anyone could do that, without need to fly around. Just slower, by mining out the chunks that do gen terrain (I expect).

[gusty epoch]

True

[primal rapids]

I managed to reproduce it. It was mold vein, I think based on this.

weird, because you can't till ground under mold veins

anyway, boring find, because I can't use it to break indestructibles 😅 ...probably

is there anything else similar to mold veins that the blocks the hoe? wondering if it would be possible to reproduce this artificially

[primal rapids]

maybe the hoe just causes that tile to update, and go "wait a minute, mold wall on top of mold vein is illegal"

On an unrelated note. It's probably common knowledge that ranged enemies will predict your movement, i.e. they will shoot ahead of you if you're moving, not directly at you. But maybe a bit more surprisingly, although still probably common knowledge, melee enemies also try to attack this prediction of you if you're moving. This makes it possible to bait them to attack by going towards them a bit and then stopping. It also works through walls. Or to put it differently, the prediction ghost can walk through walls and enemies can target it. Alright, like I said, that's all probably known, but what I noticed with the Ivy farm is that the prediction ghost will also trigger boss aggro. I have a specific safe spot where I can watch the health bar without aggroing Ivy, but if I run to the safe spot too fast, it will trigger the aggro.

this is wild speculation so take it with a grain of salt, but I feel like my longer item conveyor tests where the item got stuck on the return path got stuck pretty close to a chunk border 🤔

this is pretty suspicious as well 🤔

did you discuss this already, and I missed it?

also, this sounds like a new algorithm for the maze gap search 😄

because the mazes generate approximately in the center of chunks as well

and maybe shroom gap search too, and whatnot

and even disregarding the map tool, it means the best search pattern (if you only consider naive up and down search) is through chunk centers

I was searching for something else and found one of the earlier reports on the nographics issue #🎮-game-discussion message not that it matters anymore

this was what I was looking for #🎮-game-discussion message
"starting to learn to pattern were to find em now. its not so random that people think"
they weren't exactly wrong 😄

[primal rapids]

another test: caveling tiles generated below thorny roots, with the bug I can sometimes break the caveling tile, but it won't break the root in the process

[primal rapids]

darn it

chunk center search isn't perfect for chipped blades :(

why do they have to be so small

[gusty epoch]

Ghorms start area I guess

he does not start on sigil as you all thought

cool to see that was correct, I thought he probably did and adjusted after the fact lol

[ripe lily]

What??? I've killed him a couple times when he's only 1/4 of the way around the circle and all that is dug out is the path from the sigil. Seems like you just go a weird world gen

[trim kestrel]

Well done. Erm, torches block hoeing, annoyingly. Or better that way?

[trim kestrel]

Interesting, but what would be the game logic behind items getting stopped by a (pressumably) unloaded chunk that's closer to player than the one they were yravelling through?

Either their movement kept it alive, or tiles were being randomly loaded in...?

[trim kestrel]

Where is that relative to the sigil and ring, exactly?

[gusty epoch]

Just about to upload the map lol

No graphics at all map

Some graphics (~30 minutes), then loaded with no graphics

it was on the right-ish side

You can see the hive intersecting with ghorm trail

that spot

Also neat that bosses cause chunks to be loaded

I had just been sitting at 0,0 for the 30 minutes

8VlqlgndSbqzz54hEv9NLPwDKjai is the code if y'all wanna try clearing out the dirt biome, but it's not 100% accurate since the slime boss is there

[trim kestrel]

Very cool map image! So Ghorm does cause terrain to generate around him. And so does Glurch and Aseos spawn, etc. Nice!

And we can see the extent of player's terrain loading around the core. Did you move off the spawn tile at all? (Like to the left even a tiny bit?)

[gusty epoch]

No

Just sat at 0

[primal rapids]

Maybe a quirk where items can load a chunk below but not above. I doubt it though.

[trim kestrel]

Cool. So some symmetry breaking there, with more terrain loaded to the left, yes? (Like is seen with door hoiks, wanting to go left, maybe.)

Could you upload a version of that with the grid lines turned on on Craigin's map tool, too, please. 🙂

[gusty epoch]

Oh sure lol

I’m outside with the doggo rn so might be a second

[trim kestrel]

No rush.

And is that hive mother's entire hive area has generated terrain of every chunk it enters? Cos that's a lot of clay caves already generated, up top...

[gusty epoch]

Yea not sure, I’m just the explorer, I’ll leave judgement on that for the pros

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow! That's really satisfying to look at! Clearly nailed the grid alignment, Craigin's and co. Well done. 🙂

[gusty epoch]

Truth it matches up really well

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, it seems like being that far off-centre is definitely the exception for scenes. ~90% have some part of their mid-section in the centre of a chunk tile.

I wondered if there is a specific exception for chipped blades, of having higher positional variance...

But I think the general rule is that scenes get pushed away from dungeons/villages/hives/any non-obsidian tiles...?

Could you look see if there is a section of dungeon in the top-mid right of that temple's chunk tile of yours Mz? Like appears to have happened with mine:

I think your search pattern refinement is valid, still:
(1) Aim through the middle of chunk tiles.
(2) If you find another scene (or dungeon in the middle), that'll be the only one in that grid tile, so move on.
(3) If there's a dungeon in one part of that grid, scene may be offset.
(4) If searching for small scenes like chipped blade, expand your search from the middle of a grid into a blob of certain radius. Or sub-divide that grid tile into 4 and dig out to the middle of each of those sub-tiles (if they're not already open ground. (Messy.)

[primal rapids]

I also wonder if my map is just too old, what if the generation has changed

I mean, changed from mostly centered prefabs to more randomness in the position

area surrounding my chipped blade

[trim kestrel]

Looking at the Captains, there: ~80% (i'm revising down, heh) are pretty much centred. The trick is to explain why some aren't...

Like I was thinking it looked like the villages pushed these scenes away. But that clearly doesn't apply to all of them:

[trim kestrel]

You sure there's not a itty bitty dungeon hidden in there, heh. 😅

(And you got a larger temple in the tile to the right of your chipped blade, like I did. funny coincidence.)

[trim kestrel]

Which of these is glurch spawn, btw? Top left? Lower right?

Wondering why some of those lower right grids have terrain generated, too far from Ghorm track.

[gusty epoch]

Upper left from core

I assume that’s why it loaded one extra on the side there but idk

[trim kestrel]

Cheers. That could explain why that extra tile is generated, then (instead not symmetry breaking of player position). But it doesn't seem to touch the tile below that which is also generated...?

Or is it the slime splodges...? If the centre of a splodge is in a terrain generated tile, it generates the terrain of all the grid tiles that splodge extends into...?

[gusty epoch]

I'm not sure why

[trim kestrel]

Yes, I think this must be it. But not just dungeons, etc. For all scenes, too.

If a map chunk has terrain generated, any scene/dungeon with a centre in that chunk, that spreads over into an adjacent chunk, will cause their terrain to be generated too.

Hence you can get a domino effect like this:

All set off by Ghorm causing scene one's origin chunk to be rendered.

[gusty epoch]

doesn't seem to matter for mold that I noticed, but I didn't really look too closely

Mold ends in obsidian

[trim kestrel]

See, that still fits. Because the mold dungeon's origin chunk isn't terrain generated (biggest blob in centre of grid). So it didn't domino out to terrain generate it's limbs.

I'm curious if the dungeons and scenes spawn over time, gradually accumulating. Or if it's a one-off roll, when an adjacent chunk get's terrain generated... Or a scene put in it...?

I was assuming it was your movement over the map that caused these scenes to be spawned, way out from anything else...:

But...

You must have flown over a lot of this, to get to the Azeos spawn, right? And there's no scenes been put there:

Yet...? If you go back and fly around, does it put more scenes in...?

[gusty epoch]

With or without graphics?

Without it shouldn't

[trim kestrel]

graphics off

[gusty epoch]

Might be hive mobs breaking stuff causing chunks to generate

and that's why hive is so big

[trim kestrel]

Ok. so you think all the scenes we see were deployed on world first load. Hmm.

[gusty epoch]

I was curious about Ivy as well but I couldn't be bothered to search that long lol

[trim kestrel]

It's really hard to tease out exactly what's happening there... I see examples of hives and scenes overlapping chunk boarders for most of it, to explain it by my domino theory. Can't be sure there's a counter example or not. Such is the terrain...

So you think that any tile where terrain was generated also had the mobs spawned and activated? Moving around...?

Regardless of how far from you at the core. And this dominoed onto generating adjacent chunk's terrain....?

[gusty epoch]

Like this one, I reckon if the mobs from this hive dug over into the chunk on the left it'd have generated

but they never did before I started nographics version

[trim kestrel]

So you think that even the scenes embedded in obsidian have their mobs activated...? Before terrain in that chunk is generated, too...? I don't know Bob.

[gusty epoch]

I mean

before scenes are generated they're all considered obisdian

so yes?

at least that's the theory

[trim kestrel]

If you wanted to do another test, you could just initiate the world for like 1 second of graphics on before logging back out. So there wouldn't be time for any mobs to move far enough. (How long did the two above each take you? A big effort?)

[gusty epoch]

it took a little while lol

I might get to it later

That one sat for 30 minutes so the mobs had ample time to roam lol

[forest lodge]

I'll show you a map of the world when you ask or when I'm done strip mining the stone biome. It might help, it might not

[trim kestrel]

A very short ~1 second load time might not even give the game chance to generate all the Terrain in places that it should. That could be interesting too. 🙂

[primal rapids]

do you have the movement scripted btw, or do you just fly around manually at high speeds?

[gusty epoch]

manually lmao

[trim kestrel]

Whoosh, newoommm...!

[primal rapids]

would be a huge pain at normal speeds 😄

[gusty epoch]

It would yea

[trim kestrel]

And I'd say this second test by Captain puts an upper distance bound on players causing chunks to load, hence generate terrain, at under 64 tiles.

At least, initially... I mean, that's less than the known load-in distance for furniture/arms (80 tiles), electronics logic (100 tiles) and mobs probably further... Odd.

Maybe movement speed (or even movement "ghosts") play a role in how far out it'll generate a new chunk?

[primal rapids]

yeah I also think it should be less than 64, otherwise the 2x2 chunk area earlier would be pretty much impossible

[trim kestrel]

Right. how wide is the screen in tiles, again...? 🤔

Just under 30 tiles wide. So player could, theoretically be 15 tiles away from an unrendered chunk and not be able to see it... But the devs will give themselves far more margin than that, of course.

Side note. I've long been wondering if these perfectly mirroring each other were pure co-incidence. Or if me cutting a rail line exactly down the x=0 line (middle of shot) somehow caused it... 👀 🤔

I guess it could have... if the tiles either side of my line got loaded/terrain generated in the same tick. Each of these getting the same randomisation seed for rolling a scene in the empty chunk beyond them... (Major speculation! 😅 )

But hold that thought I guess.

[gusty epoch]

amogus

Opened up server, joined, closed it. lol

[trim kestrel]

Oh, lol. That was definitely with graphics on...? And it didn't even manage to render the chunks adjacent to spawn point....?

[gusty epoch]

I think it's not running long enough to bother saving anything

CK thing is on

3 days 😄

I missed a spot

Ivy

[cloud bear]

how does the opening system work for the door?

[trim kestrel]

You can see all the electronics needed for a door like that, here in my video: https://youtu.be/T8DWen59A7M?t=140

[cloud bear]

ty

[river hamlet]

ඞ

[deft pulsar]

how did you do this? so basically open a dedicated server then close it instantly? with alt + f4? or normal closing?

[remote thunder]

Can someone link a video showing the highest current dps build

[ripe lily]

Caveling helmet, ivy armour, sickle, 2xsky ring, polished gold crystal necklace

[trim kestrel]

I'm not sure there's even a definitive answer to that. Given that it's hard to measure for certain, and varies with crits, etc.

The builds for farming the merchants are probably most effective. But if you don't need to poison your target, things might be shifted around.

[ripe lily]

Yeah, it's hard to pin down base melee dmg vs crit dmg, what I mentioned above is what I use, but the build would probably be different if you wanted to use rune song instead for infinite durability

[trim kestrel]

NPC farming needs to be a competitive event, to figure this out.

Although, of course, you can do more damage, the more mobs you hit. So it depends how it's set up. If you're allowed to bring extra spawns in, etc.

[ripe lily]

Yeah maybe how many you kill in 1 hour or something to account for rng

[trim kestrel]

This is what I mean about setup/rules. I was thinking it would gave to be based on individual kills. 100 to 0. Since respawning is fiddly and unpredictable with perhaps even more RNG or even hardware performance dependence. 🤷

[primal rapids]

DPS counter mod

[trim kestrel]

Is there a list of mods somewhere reputable?

[gusty epoch]

Launched server with -no-graphics or whatever the launch option was for that

[lilac gale]

R2modman has a couple.. I think most of the mods for this game though are homebrew

[gusty epoch]

I made my own yea

But Peace is right it’s all r2modman afaik

[lilac gale]

R2modman also pulls mods from the thunderstore.io site which is reputable.

And the client itself is used for many different games

[trim kestrel]

Thanks. Yeah, I'd seen that linked from a Reddit post video before. Seems most to have (Unity based) modding tools. Plus infinite ore tools and farming tweaks. No flying about, eh?

[lilac gale]

It's only a couple, and I really only remember the infinite ore and farmer tweak mods

No full flight/God mode mods were on it when I checked

[lost beacon]

There's mod for this game??