Core Keeper University

[long dagger]

:0

i c what ur up to

o thats what was used, makes sense y it was just a row of shots from the gif

so how many backups did u make?

[dim orchid]

Some variety of backups versions. And I need backups every attempt lol.
Most difficult part is turret sometimes doesn't recognize a immediate next tile's slime. I put the conveyor under the slime that helps turrets to recognize slimes.
But slime escapes frequently when i put a conveyor under them. Slime escapes when I leave the game or I leave 100 tiles from them.

around 60%~70% of turrets launch without conveyors.

[long dagger]

That's core keeper for u. The bug fixes were great but they still got some more to fix

[dim orchid]

Ya. The last update is so good that might fix unintended turret launch when player stand far from turret.

[trim kestrel]

That's a lot of setup for something that looks so simple at the end! 😶👍

Did you get virtually all the turrets to fire like that? Or was that 60-70% even then? If so, maybe better to add a one tile space...

I was wondering if that way you could open doors to have the slimes move out of the way just in time...? To re-use them. Probably don't quite work.

I was thinking of trying to trigger stone turrets with play on mine cart, but the layout can't work, I don't think.

But I guess one could one-tick even harder bosses with high player damage and riding a minecart to a pre-spawned boss. Not as fun as spawning them into instant death though...

[dim orchid]

I set 71 turrets, 50 are with slimes on conveyor and 21 are without conveyor.If I set all slimes without conveyors, the damage of Ghorm is around 6000~7000. One turret deal around 150 damage so I thought 60~70% turrets fired. The Ghorm has 8061 HP so 54 turrets are needed.

So only one tile space is permitted between turrets. (projectiles only goes 150 tiles). This is why I added the conveyor under slimes that turrets get more launch. Sorry for this complicated explanation.😂 😂

[dim orchid]

To re-use them with door idea, I was wondering too, but couldn't find out design for every 2 or 3 tiles turrets. With stone turrets may have advantage for re-use setup. I haven't try yet.

[restive trellis]

Hey so (not sure if this is the right place but) If I were to make small mob farming what should I look out for? Something like "Dont make it close to this" or "Always do this" and something like that

[lilac gale]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GztPk-H_lEs&list=PLMa0hHVkE2EdIhwJhw3ulgFROhx2pVDLW

[restive trellis]

Google probably hates me for not giving me that vid

[trim kestrel]

Google search has crazy inertia when it comes to game information (videos). Loves to show the old outdated stuff because it's had a lot of clicks before...

Also the ad revenue guide content stealing farm sites (because: SEO). 🙄

[rich folio]

most of my gaming google searches nowadays end in site:reddit.com

😛

because I know somebody else probably had the same question

[trim kestrel]

It really is the frond page of the internet... Especially seeing as so much content is now being swallowed up by this blackhole we call Discord.

[lilac gale]

If someone has further knowledge on this than I do please enlighten me as to why this might be happening:

I'm testing crafting 0-100.. because I can I guess 🤷‍♂️ .. and I have noticed a very peculiar piece of information that to me is incredibly contradictory to how the community has been telling people crafting xp works. I have used stone walls and wood to go from 0-1 and found that it requires 15 crafts to reach level 1 (exact xp no overflow) for both resources.

Odd, but it gets a bit more odd here. The amount of said resource used doesn't matter either. I can craft 45 torches (15 wood) to reach level 1, or I can also craft 15 wooden pickaxes (60 wood) to reach level 1. I have done the same with stone as well. Crafting 30 stone floor (15 stone walls) as well as crafting 15 stone doors (60 stone walls) will both arrive exactly at level 1 crafting.

This completely throws out how I thought and have been teaching people that the xp system works. I'm not sure if this was something that just got changed when the xp requirements got reworked, or has always been this way, but I distinctly remember this not being the case. I will be testing with actual bars of ore momentarily to see if this is the case for them as well.

[lilac gale]

Ok, something is different from how I was taught the system worked back when testing was first done for this by another individual. I'll have to draft a more complete report once I am satisfied I have found results that are consistent.

[lilac gale]

Alrighty then, this has been enlightening. Here are my results compiled into a poorly designed spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aI0UsfuWIa5EzaErQx_luOuiGmXNyqk-fJm_1oPIgPI/edit?usp=sharing

[trim kestrel]

It changed around the time, just after, I joined the community, I think. When ninefourty was around and testing crafting XP, and it was different, apparently. But this is all I remember seeing:

1 xp per craft, effectively. (What I put on the wiki many months back.)

But I think it's actually 1xp per ingredient type, maybe.

[lilac gale]

If you have... 30k.. of one of the ingredients I placed under refined you can max crafting really quickly 🙃

It took me an entire 3 minutes to max doing the test for that lmao

[lilac gale]

I see. I must have been inactive here when nineforty was doing this testing. I arrived to the same result they did it seems though.

[trim kestrel]

The 10-at-a-time shortcut's still broken, right..?

[lilac gale]

Actually, I had no issues with it.

I didn't attempt to 10-craft anything that crafts more than one item per craft, so it didn't cause me issues.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, right, bug was limited to that...

[trim kestrel]

Ok, I'm struggling a bit to understand what you were crafting. In most of your tables you list only a single ingredient.

So is the 15 crafts to level 1 with crafting anything with that as an ingredient? What about items with multiple types of ingredient?

And is the 30 amount, for all refined resources, saying that the items they craft give half as much xp as the raw ingredients do? (Counterintuitive.)

[lilac gale]

Anything within the raw materials list when crafted either with another raw material or by itself requires you to craft with it 15 times. Doesn't matter how much of the resource is expended, it just requires that you make 15 of something using it. 15 furnaces is the same as 15 stone doors. Combined ingredients do not add together to the xp total with raw ingredients, only the craft count matters.

Refined materials give 1 xp per resource expended. One copper bar is 1 xp, one galaxite bar is 1 xp. A galaxite anvil, 25x galaxite required, gives 25 xp. I put the xp as such because the ingredient quantity does actually matter for xp here, whereas with the raw materials it didn't.

Giving 1 xp vs giving 2 xp for refined and raw was solely because it takes 30 refined ingredients to reach level 1, and it takes 15 crafts of a raw material craft to reach level 1.

I'll reword it a bit today, and maybe toss the bullet points on the sides of each into a more complete sentence structure above or maybe below the graph for each. I was doing the whole thing at 3 am when I finished up so I was sorta exhausted.

[trim kestrel]

😵‍💫 Sorry, maybe I should have been more clear. I guess I was looking for some grounded examples of what end-product item(s) you had crafted to figure this out. In the case of the raw resources, especially.

It seems like a very counter-intuitive way to talk about crafting, given that it's done by clicking on the desired item to craft (and not necessarily even paying attention to the ingredients used).

And I couldn't directly check your assertions, without knowing what you'd tested making.
.

You also list "torch" as a raw resource...? (And "meats" threw me off too, but that's e.g. grubzooka.)

Why do you class fibre as refined, given it's a direct drop? From crafting beds and seeing that they give a bunch of XP too?

I just tested on a new char: 6 beds for level 1. 30xp from 30 fibre.
.

So, the rule is quite simple, then?

(1) Any item crafted that contains only raw resources gives 2xp per craft.

(2) But if there any refined resources in a recipe, you instead get 1xp per refined resource consumed.

(3) Here's a list of wat ingredients count as raw and which as refined...

[lilac gale]

Mhm pretty much that.

I need better names for the categories, the fiber threw the naming scheme out the window and I just never fixed it lol

I'll add more images for example reasoning when I get to my PC to do so.

As for the torches being a "raw" resource, it's used in the crafting of the Christmas items. Doesn't actually give xp though since the snowballs are a refined material.

I'll take the day today to somewhat redesign the spreadsheet, i just wanted the thoughts and info splashed onto the document for the time being last night.

I also did have an image for the raw vs refined materials I crafted to show xp.. I apparently deleted it somehow while making the thing..

My experiments simply poof'd away 🙃

[trim kestrel]

OK. Thanks a bunch for taking a detailed look at this, figuring it out and sharing. 🙂👍

I think it'd help, if sharing with players generally, to streamline the information down a bunch. But also give a table of some (or many) items crafted, with their ingredients highlighted as either raw/refined (by cell colour) and how much total xp the item gave.

bunch, bunch... sigh. I need dinner, I guess.

[lilac gale]

Yea that was my plan. I'll just remove the stuff I have now for a more simplistic table for each category and simply list the rules before listing the ingredients that fall under the category.

With images edited to show the resources expended and xp gained from such crafts.

[lilac gale]

Ok, I think I am done with that. If it has further issues shoot me a ping.

[trim kestrel]

I'm tired boss... 😮‍💨👍

[lilac gale]

I can imagine, it's later in the day for you after all

[trim kestrel]

I guess it actually is for me, at the same time as my fellow country-persons. But just, in general. And you been working hard on that too. 🙂

[lilac gale]

Never been good with making things look nice, all I know is figure out and regurgitate information lmao

It was sorta nice to attempt to make something a bit easier to view and decode.

[lilac gale]

I have done a thing again. This one is not meant to be pretty, is simply meant to provide numbers and a quick visual. I will likely ||hopefully I am praying I do not decide to do this|| not be doing the others as they would be incredibly tedious to count one by one manual inputs. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x_qFBi9_bPytiirk1-sj7eXPjBFS_1or4sKp5xWE3LI/edit?usp=sharing

[wispy lava]

i've been looking online for something like this for so long
thanks so much for doing this!

[lilac gale]

There was an old file for this before they made the xp changes, so it's unfortunately outdated. I do also have a crafting one, further up in the chat, and I will toss together a fishing one quickly since I did that here before when the changes first dropped.

Although, it may be a pain to get to my messages now since I seemingly cannot use the search feature anymore.

[wispy lava]

👍

[lilac gale]

@silk crescent is there a reason that I cannot use the search feature anymore?

It does not work on mobile or on PC, even after restarting both.

Wait, I cannot use it anywhere. I will troubleshoot sorry for ping 😅

[restive trellis]

Hey if anybody knows, does Bubble Crab just spawn on beach sand ground? Or do they HAVE to be in the sunken sea biome to spawn?

[lilac gale]

It has to be both of what you said.

On the ground, within the biome.

[restive trellis]

ah darn. I guess no free octorine bars

No wait I completely forgot about cavling scholars

[trim kestrel]

Oh, wow! You made a curve! 😶👍

So, overall xp requirement for gardening was cut to 1/3. Maxing at the old equivalent of level 70 to 75.

And cooking at 1/4 previous total xp. But steeper curve...

I think if I were to do anything like this, I'd approximate a little and do it mod assisted:

Count the amount needed for 1 level-up. Then use mod to jump forwards by 9 levels and count that one. The graph those 10 or 11 data point to find the curve (maybe straight line on log graph). And interpolate the in-between level requirements.

Might be slightly less accurate... But 10 times less grind. Maybe.

Or go begging in modding. 😅

[lilac gale]

Yea I did make a graph, I figured it would be nice to have so I tossed one in. I have been using mods to easily set, or reset my character up for verification of the numbers I put on there, so much nicer than needing to make a new character again and again.

[rich belfry]

so Im trying to light up a room and its too big for 1 generator. But I want the room to light up with the flip of a lever. Does anyone know a way to wire up 2 generators to the same lever that power different sections of a room?

[trim kestrel]

You mean, just put a second one on a logic circuit, with a wire from the first as the input that turns it on...?

Btw, this is what #⚡-circuitry is made for. 😜

[rich belfry]

that channel keeps getting hidden from me so I constantly forget it exists

[trim kestrel]

Why's that? Do you not have "The Core" section of channels drop-down open? That's confused my old man brain a bunch...

[lilac gale]

The last spreadsheet I linked has been updated to have Fishing as well as Crafting xp requirements as well. The old Crafting sheet is not getting deleted, I just put the xp requirements on this one and mentioned the other.

I'll set up areas to test the other skills.. then mentally contemplate whether or not it is worth it.

I may honestly just ask someone from modding to dive into the code for me and find the numbers, and instead just write up a draft about basic notes for each skill.

Cause.. I don't want to do Vitality man, or Running.

[lilac gale]

@trim kestrel oh good god..

This is mining xp

The difference LOL

[trim kestrel]

Oh, wow. 1/5th, pretty much.

[lilac gale]

Melee is like that too

96498 old; 25004 new

[lilac gale]

I have it 99% finished for what I have wanted to add to it, I may add things as people mention things missing from it. I have one thing I need to further test, but I have plans for the rest of my day so I need to finish that up later. https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1x_qFBi9_bPytiirk1-sj7eXPjBFS_1or4sKp5xWE3LI/edit?usp=sharing

Let me know how the links work as a viewer, I can't really test that well as the editor.

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, you completed the whole set! 🤩 🥳🎉

Love the casual 20 oracle cards from fishing, heh.

This would make a great wiki/steam guide. Although if you're not up for making either, are you going to post a link to this more publicly in the discord and on reddit, too? 🙂

[trim kestrel]

Looks fine to me. What you can do is have another browser that's no logged into Google (or whatever). I have Opera for that (then Chrome and Firefox as daily drivers).

[lilac gale]

Ah, yea that's smart I'll have to remember that.

[lilac gale]

I will be posting it in #🎮-game-discussion once I get it fully updated and I hadn't considered the reddit but I can post it there as well.

I may post it on the Steam forums as well, I'll have to consider it.

If I post it there I might as well just make it a guide.. I'll have to further consider that then lol

[trim kestrel]

I love to see information as condensed as possible, so I'd love a composite graph of xp per level of all the skills together. 😉

[lilac gale]

I could make that happen. Vitality may throw that whole graph out of wack though 😅

[trim kestrel]

5 millions hits, what..?! 😵‍💫 🤯 For real?

Wait. Brain.

5 mil hp of damage.

[lilac gale]

Yea 🫠

[rich folio]

and all bosses count the same?

that's unfortunate

[trim kestrel]

Oh. So there's a 10k xp cap per kill?

Dare I ask how you got such precise figures for every level of the vitality stats...? How'd you count that?!

[lilac gale]

I didn't. I used code someone posted that allowed me to calculate the amounts.

[trim kestrel]

Oh. nice.

[lilac gale]

#🔧-modding-chat helped me with getting that, cause I wouldn't have found it otherwise lol

It also allowed me to confirm my numbers I had manually tested were correct

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, wow. you precise! 🙂👍

[lilac gale]

Essentially. It's slightly more complicated but that's the gist of it.

[trim kestrel]

How so...? 🙂

[lilac gale]

xp requirements lesser than a certain amount will only contribute 50% of the bar xp progression.

If the 10k cap is met sooner because it goes over 50% of the xp progress bar it will stop there.

This can be tested by killing a NPC with 0 xp in Vitality, and seeing it fills only half the bar to progress towards lvl 1, which only requires 2k xp to reach.

[trim kestrel]

So, a brand new character killing an NPC would only get half a lever? Right.

[lilac gale]

So you only obtain 1k xp in total compared to the 10k you could receive otherwise.

[lilac gale]

Yes

[trim kestrel]

Sorry. You'd written that in there, but I didn't fully process what it meant.

[lilac gale]

It's all good, I may need to find another way to word it.

[trim kestrel]

"XP per kill is capped at 10k or half a level, whichever is lower."?

Or is it that you could you get less, like, it's gated at the halfway mark and full level mark...? 🤔

[rich folio]

does hard double the xp per boss or nah?

[lilac gale]

This is another thing I need to test. I ran out of time before heading out.

I had done NPC killing on a hard world as well, which didn't give more than 10k, but I will need to try a boss since those actually do scale hp.

[lilac gale]

This would work, I can double check the second statement you sent but it from what I saw it goes in halves up until it can give 10k.

[lilac gale]

Oh, I added an extra 0 to my results for xp 🙃

It's 1k not 10k

I will have to find and test xp from a mob that has more than 1k hp

a basic mob, not a boss or NPC

10-11 takes just over 3k xp (25089 to 28330) and the image shows one kill from hive mother

[lilac gale]

Oh god it's for all mobs with more than 1k hp LOL
This is such an odd balancing decision, why have the xp calculate this way if it doesn't even fully account for the mob hp pool.

This is a normal world, and the assassin has 1950 hp.

Yea, it's a cap of 1k for sure. Purple slimes on normal, 870 hp, do not fill the bar half way on a single kill and with two kills leaves the bar just under finished.

Man that's just such a bizarre decision.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, that is interesting. So that makes hard mode far less worthwhile for leveling.

And preserves the steepening of the curve, in terms of needing more kills, not just harder mobs.

I can see why they'd want to reduce the ability to NPC farm this... I dunno. 🤷

[lilac gale]

I suppose, it feels silly though to allow for the parameters to only apply to maybe half of the enemies in your game though

Any mob above a purple slime in terms of locational difficulty has more than the 1k cap worth of hp

basically anything mold+

It feels more logical to just use a different parameter so it can effectively be used by all mob types

[trim kestrel]

It is a hard coded 1k and not, like, limited to your max health? (That'd be kinda cool. Bit on interaction. I sure it's not that.)

[lilac gale]

I was using a 2k hp character

2.2k

[trim kestrel]

Oh, and of course you could just scale all the vitality numbers down by 100, or 500, or whatever. To keep the graphs on a par. Then state that in the key.

[lilac gale]

I could do that.

[signal sparrow]

hi just a quick question, is there a way to see what are my coordinates rn? (x, y)

[lilac gale]

Not currently, there may be a mod for it however I am not 100% sure

[signal sparrow]

hmm im trying to experiment with the commands mod, /spawn, but i really dont wanna count 3 digit numbers lol

[lilac gale]

Just use ~

it spawns near the player, as the tool tip suggests

[trim kestrel]

Map Tool has coordinates in the bottom right for where you point, too. At least, the in-dev version does... 🤔

[lilac gale]

True, I assumed they were looking for a non-map tool option

[signal sparrow]

hmm gonna try that one too

[primal rapids]

do hatched larva eggs reduce spawns?

or block spawns somehow

[primal rapids]

I guess they do at least block it somehow, since mushrooms do as well..?

[trim kestrel]

They block that tile from receiving a mob, I believe. But I think they probably don't remove the chrysalis tile from counting towards the minimum number needed to get any spawns.

[primal rapids]

(I started a new pacifist run, and I'm trying to figure out how I want to let the mobs duke it out efficiently, pre-great-wall)

[trim kestrel]

They will only break the cocoons as collateral fire. Rather than directly. In a farm with conveyors, I just ignore them. Depends maybe what exactly you're planning. But maybe not an issue...

Not sure if breaking the stumps counts to melee xp. I'd guess not...

[primal rapids]

they do, at least they did in my last run but it was a long time ago

meant I could not clean them up myself at all 😄 I often used red slimes

I'm thinking I'll have small units of 1 ranged caveling + something for it to shoot, in a mob chunk intersection so that I get the most out of it, and then if I need more than one I'll add units

[trim kestrel]

Is this a pre-wall farm?

[primal rapids]

yeah

and for cavelings I'm thinking of flooding a single mob chunk from the sides (of adjacent mob chunks) with slimes, in the hope that they'll beat the single caveling spawn every now and then... not sure if that's efficient, but I'd rather not have any ranged cavelings around my loot

[trim kestrel]

No spikes, even vs mobs, eh?

[primal rapids]

that's the plan

[trim kestrel]

I can't remember checking acid thoroughly, yet... To be sure it doesn't stop mob self-heal now. Like turrets do.

[primal rapids]

okay, mobs still do some weird teleporting back to where they spawned at... same as last time I tried a pacifist run

kind of messes up the run, since you can't get rid of mobs easily, and they just keep teleporting back to wherever as long as they're alive

well, I guess knowing that you can prepare for it

this one caveling teleported 7 blocks horizontally and 3 blocks vertically, into a wall... I wondered where he disappeared and only found him because I dug the wall he teleported inside of, and got jumped on

but where that wall is now, there used to be the spawn tiles I used to spawn him

[primal rapids]

clay cavelings have a weird pathfinding, it feels like they try to pathfind towards each other even through walls, they won't wander around like most other mobs do

unless they're alone

[trim kestrel]

Huh. They have flocking...? 😶

[trim kestrel]

So, there was world tile teleportation, too...?! I've not noticed this before.

[trim kestrel]

Is that a definite pattern?

I've not seen enough mob teleporting, myself, up close, to start figuring out a pattern. Certain players seem to get spots where mobs accumulate, like teleportation glitch strange attractors...

For a couple, that's been stone moss cavelings attacking the core, with no spawn surface nearby.

[primal rapids]

here's the last time it happened to me #977128133142659102 message

same kind of set up, I was trying to spawn a ranged caveling, here shaman, to clear out mobs below

when I went away and came back later he teleported into the void, where I had had a spawning platform before I narrowed it to a 1 wide strip

this time it was the clay cavelings, (which by the way spawned in a pair of melee + ranged), I move the ranged one to a 1 wide strip and lured the melee away into a 1x1 hole nearby

came back and the ranged one had moved a few blocks north into an enclosure and the melee was nowhere to be seen -> found it inside the wall where their spawn tiles used to be

of course that's just how it looked to me, the real mechanics could be something else entirely

anyway, both followed this:

1. build two mob platforms
2. wait for mobs to spawn (and don't kill them, because pacifist)
3. narrow down one of the platforms
4. move far away and come back
5. mobs in wall/void

well, the shaman case sounds like the "spots where mobs accumulate", because there were cavelings or at least a caveling in the same spot with the shaman

[trim kestrel]

Oh, like 9 months ago? 😅

[long dagger]

May be related to raid parties

[trim kestrel]

Could be.

[primal rapids]

If it's raid parties, at least they don't come after me. In the first pacifist world I spent a lot of time in the stone biome, killing cavelings with spikes (I hadn't ruled out spikes yet for the first playthrough) and I never got a raid party

ah, but I guess that was even longer time ago

not in the same update as the teleporting bug

[primal rapids]

I haven't played much 😆

[trim kestrel]

I've not played for a couple weeks or so... 😬 😅

[lilac gale]

I just farm stuff to prep for the eventuality where an update drops that I can actually use new stuff.

Most of the new items have been collection related items for me as of late.

[trim kestrel]

I meant to finish up some builds, ready for new content, and for displaying old content... BUt lost of urgency and it takes me too long and too much thought and perfectionism... 🙄

[primal rapids]

okay I give up... a big larva already teleported out of confinement and wrecked my base... turns out it's the glitches that kill the pacifist run and not the bosses

that wasn't even a larva from a farm, it was just one that I couldn't get rid of so I stashed it away

I don't think it was this bad when I did the first run 🤔

the second time I tried, maybe

[trim kestrel]

😢 ... (We need a larva bug emote.)

I think maybe it got worst around sunken sea... In terms of reports.... 🤔 But maybe it's more just world dependant.

[lilac gale]

I haven't had any mob teleporting ever happen, just big flying lava butterflies breaking out of containment and wreaking havoc on my local population

Darn buggers phase through walls

[trim kestrel]

Not any more though, right...?

[lilac gale]

I haven't set up a farm to test it ngl

[trim kestrel]

No worries.

[lilac gale]

All I needed the farm for was figurines

And now that I have them I tore all the farms down

[trim kestrel]

For fps?

Or tidiness?

[lilac gale]

Nah, because I was downsizing how many worlds I had.

I was up to 10 I wanted to get rid of at least half

I think I sit at 5 now

I set up two after I deleted worlds for testing stuff and trading

[bleak yew]

Test if i can now see the thread always

[lilac gale]

Once you send a message you should be able to

[bleak yew]

Jeah. The Test was successful

[trim kestrel]

You can also join (and leave) threads from the "..." at the top.

Is this well known and commonly used?

[lilac gale]

Looks like someone on the Steam guides made a document which has every possible food creation and their effects listed out: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14OIcfhMSHL-zCQZsdNvExtTZ3KQVtoeo3XzK3R8BtD8/edit#gid=56941480

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2914626559

[pine maple]

past the point where traps etc and mob hitboxes start to unload does that mean mobs in-fighting will stop as well?

[trim kestrel]

Yes. Past about 105 tiles, I think. Mob-vs-mob farms stop working. So the spawned mobs can pile up indefinitely and overwhelm the opposed mobs that should kill them.

[pine maple]

@trim kestrel Hey just some more stuff I wanna ask about, what is the centre of of a cell? is it the 4 middle ones or any of those 4 blocks? And if that centre touches my 208 radius the whole cell will spawn stuff right? And looking at KanSer's farm I am assuming mobs will still be moved by conveyors even though their hitboxes are unloaded?

[trim kestrel]

My measurement of spawn cell activation range was 1 dimensional. Horizontal only. And plus/minus a tile or so. But yeah, as far as I know, that's how it all works.

[uncut remnant]

Just for info

Do placed bugs despawn?

[trim kestrel]

We're told they don't. (Can still squish them, though.)

[uncut remnant]

Why squish them when you can have a bug room

[long dagger]

they wanted to squash the bugs in the game one way or another

[fallow hawk]

What patch were the multiple equipment slots added?

[clear sierra]

It was the Quality of Love update

[primal rapids]

got the teleporting mobs thing that haunts my pacifist run on tape:

1. here at the beginning I have spawned in a shaman and a caveling (they already had one caveling with them from earlier) https://youtu.be/NpCu47YymNM
2. I separate them and leave the shaman like so: https://youtu.be/NpCu47YymNM?t=380
3. I make sure to leave some "chambers" behind where I spawned the cavelings, because I know what's about to happen next, and then go on my way https://youtu.be/NpCu47YymNM?t=861
4. I run to the south and stay there a while https://youtu.be/NpCu47YymNM?t=921
5. I run back north to the core and as before, the shaman has teleported into the "chambers" I prepared beforehand. If this was wall or void, the shaman would have teleported into wall or void. https://youtu.be/NpCu47YymNM?t=1134

[trim kestrel]

I was expecting something more dramatic... 😜

You were expecting the shaman to teleport, though? And it did. Does that mean you can reproduce the effect? That's what would be most valuable to the devs, I guess.

[primal rapids]

yeah it looks like I can reproduce it, but probably not very consistently, since the normal cavelings didn't teleport

or maybe if you move something far enough away, it will not teleport 🤔

at least it's more dramatic than just "I had 100 mobs cramped and one of them phased through the wall", because the shaman moved multiple blocks and through multiple walls

actually, at the end I test whether it would happen again, and it didn't, but later I found out that the shaman had done the old "phasing through a wall due to other mobs in the same space" glitch, so I gave them more room and thickened the walls

that helped in the past at least a little bit

so to add to the initial finding:

• it looks like it won't happen again on the same mob if you move it back and repeat (the javelin one hasn't teleported twice and neither has the shaman)
• on the other hand the old phase-through-wall glitch is still very much there

also fences are even worse than walls, it's a complete coin flip whether you find the mobs inside or outside a fenced area

[uncut remnant]

I can't believe I am have to ask this

But how much health does ghworm have with 4 players

And how much to phase 2?

[trim kestrel]

I don't think we know the exact figures... The scaling is specified for each boss individually and isn't linear with extra players anymore.

I think it starts agro at 30% missing health.

[hexed crow]

afaik its *1,2/player (but I could be wrong)
so ~16k

[uncut remnant]

Il go with that thx

[fallow hawk]

So bosses no longer gain more stats with extra players?

[trim kestrel]

😶 They do gain health, per connected player. As we've said above. It was just changed a bit, not so long back.

[fallow hawk]

What about stats other than health? And is there any kind of pinned document on the subject?

[fallow hawk]

Both is good.

[astral dune]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/18RmZQ5jbS78xqVQexS3OpmsY689csIF6Xw5nbiG0OKg/edit?usp=sharing

[pale merlin]

very, very nice info, thank you!! are there plans for making charts like this for all pets, or just the cats?

[astral dune]

As of now, no. I did this with ember tail due to the unique interaction of flaming treat skill. If the other pets have any unique damage skill, possibly

[fallow hawk]

I'm guessing having gear that creates a burn effect would just interfere with these numbers?

[astral dune]

if you have gear that applies burning, like the fireball staff, it will overide the current burn. so if your doing a burn build, having more flaming treats would be better. the google doc just shows the damage potential of burning anger and seeing the balance of burning anger damage and flaming treat proc chance if your not running a burn build

it's better to not run a burn build if your using burning anger, otherwise it's a 2nd passive damage dealer

[astral dune]

should i do this again, but with my current damage skill buffs or no

[fallow hawk]

I won't say no.

More knowledge is always better.

[real cliff]

wait so what is the best build for embertail @astral dune

3 burning anger and 2 flaming treat?

[astral dune]

Depends, how much rng do u want on procs

How reliably do u want them to proc

[silk blade]

is there info on what the ~best~ bunny is?

[astral dune]

don't have access to bunny so can't help

[fallow hawk]

I may have a spare. I'll check back later.

[astral dune]

i play on a perma pre-wall so i don't use anything i can't get in my world.

[fallow hawk]

So that means you don't want to borrow one?

[astral dune]

ehh naw

[real cliff]

wait what

perma pre-wall?

[pine maple]

hes waiting for his friends to come back and play post wall content tgt iirc

pretty impressive world considering his access to stuff

think he tried to get various post wall stuff through some very interesting means as well lol

without trading

[astral dune]

i got scarlet bars pre-wall x3

[real cliff]

Wha

How

What

[lilac gale]

Halloween event

Breaking down the pumpkin lantern gives scarlet.

[real cliff]

I seeeee

[astral dune]

currently, not atm as scrapping any accessories only gives 1 scrap

[lilac gale]

It still is how you did it lol

But yes

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, did the devs actually fix all mob teleportation?! #📣-announcements message

[hexed crow]

hopefully yes

[glad widget]

sneaky lil cavelings working behind the scenes to make all right with the world.

[primal rapids]

I have my doubts 😄 haven't tested yet, but the changelog sounded like the mob teleportation might still exist, but if they teleport into void/wall they are removed.

Enemies that accidentally end up on a tile they can’t stand on are now removed after a short delay.

that would still be a pain in mob vs mob farms

oh, and if the mobs teleport through walls or across void, then nothing has changed..? 🤔

but yeah, who knows, the fence thing sounds very promising

Creatures like cattle, critters and enemies should no longer escape through fences and other blocking objects.

whatever it is, it must be an improvement

[trim kestrel]

If the teleport bug was being caused by object collision interactions, then maybe that's got it. But yeah, I guess we'll see, on time, if there's no more reports. 🙂

[fallow hawk]

Is it still possible to post in here?

Yep./

[trim kestrel]

Lol apparently. What is dead can never die. 💀

[fallow hawk]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/997775309401243659.gif?size=96&quality=lossless

[fallow hawk]

How did that work out? Did your friends come back for the 1.0 release?

[ripe lily]

Here is a thread for all technical Core Keeper discussion, including electricity designs, efficient farm designs and any other technical core keeper topics and tutorials.

How to get the Phantom Spark:
#👀-spoilers-chat message

Automatic Item Sorter Design:
#977128133142659102 message

[primal rapids]

can we still for example complain how long it takes to set up this root experiment, or is that off-topic

not even halfway there 😭

[ripe lily]

not really, i'd say game mechanic experiments are on topic. But maybe limit the amount of complaining so it doesn't clog up the chat

[river hamlet]

:Hmm:

[primal rapids]

alright, I'll have some on-topic content to post in a few hours then

[swift axle]

Def not here to mod how you lot conduct this technical discussions thread, but if I were to make any recommendations, anything you think needs changing/improving would be best given in #📋-feedback-suggestions so that y'all can keep this thread free for the technical stuff.

Of course, totally fine to vent and have a little complain if you tried something and it's just not worked for whatever reason 😆

[trim kestrel]

Oh wait, cool, this does exist then! I was confused...

But if we drop below 50mph, the thread will self destruct!? Don't stop pedalling Keepers! 😬 😆

[primal rapids]

I think you can still message in archived threads and they become active..? (I'm a total thread noob though)

[ripe lily]

you can

its just harder to find

[swift axle]

I've set the auto-archive from 24hrs to 1 week if that helps?

[ripe lily]

thankyou

[primal rapids]

also you can always find/link to the thread by typing # and the thread name in chat

[trim kestrel]

Will be fine, I jest.

But you can't set a description for threads, like with channels, right? So, just pin a post instead, to describe what thread is for, explicitly...?

[trim kestrel]

InfinityCorp now sets the agenda. 📋 All hail the thread over overlord. 😅 (Thanks. 🙂 )

[ripe lily]

im probably gonna use it to pin a list of links to useful messages, so we dont have to search for them.

[primal rapids]

should we have a separate thread for unstructured tech discussion then? I'd love to have it off of #🎮-game-discussion, but it might mean any final results get lost in the discussion here

[ripe lily]

nah, may as well have this allow unstructured tech discussion so people only have to go to one place for their technical ck needs

[trim kestrel]

Moar threads...! This is okay for discussion too, no?

[swift axle]

@ripe lily if you want any more links for useful messages pinning (especially if you're working on a master list or something), DM me rather than tagging me in them (in case I'm offline and miss them), and I'll get stuff pinned for you as and when I can 😄

[ripe lily]

thankyou, will do once we have a few 😀

[swift axle]

If you can make an idiot's guide to wiring like the first one, that'd be grand 😉 I always struggled with things like that in games

[river hamlet]

What are u looking for tho?

I like the logic thinking behind wires and stuff

[ripe lily]

im working on it already

[river hamlet]

If it helps.. here is something, that pushes a 1 sec signal out

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/968122147367182447/972866481064910908/unknown.png

(Compact build possible)

Later on i could do a very compact build, if needed

Maybe a guid for a ‚button-door‘ so u dont need to close the door again?

[trim kestrel]

The problem with guides like this...: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2782047683

... Is that they just replicate the logic gate section of a basic digital electronics textbook. In isolation, with no connection to how they might be used.

To be fair the devs haven't given us much in the way of I/O (input/output) devices, yet. But it doesn't touch on the clever little circuits that do have uses (presumably what Mr InfinityWar is doing?). Or even on the shortcuts that the unique game logic implementation allows.

[ripe lily]

I'm working on making a series of posts. The Basics, Delay, Clock Circuits, Ore Node Mining and Automatic Item Sorting. That should cover everything from what each item does through to how it can be used in game.

[river hamlet]

No use for that tho?

[trim kestrel]

Not sure if you're serious or sarcastic...?

That OR gate Seems a bit over the top, considering one could just connect two wires together with no logic, for the equivalent function (I think). Doesn't even have a generator, to act as a repeater/buffer.

(Oh, the guide does have a "clock" tucked away at the end. But again no suggestion of how or what to use it for.)

[river hamlet]

Mhhh yes and no

If u have drills or arms, that are in input 1 and should not work while input 2 has power, it have a use

[river hamlet]

But the logic circiuts, that i marked, are not needed

[trim kestrel]

To avoid backflow, add their "Signal Amplifier" before combining the wires. Logically simpler for players. Which would be kind of equivalent to axing the top half of that that OR gate, too, right...? 🤔 Either way.

[river hamlet]

This part is used for handel the backflow

Red has no use

[river hamlet]

What i mean with that is for the ‚connect two wires‘

[primal rapids]

I feel like you're both correct, you can remove either of the two pairs and have a functioning OR gate with backflow prevention

[river hamlet]

Oh

I dident think about remove the toppart hahaha

@ripe lily what is your Tool for sharing this nice little layouts? (-> npc farm)

[ripe lily]

The coloured block diagram i used to show the layout?

That was just a screenshot of an excel document.

[river hamlet]

Oh

Hahahaha

[primal rapids]

there's no data/experiments to back any mob spawning stuff, right? or have I just missed it

like does more spawning area equal more spawns, or are spawns fixed amount and spread out for the available area

or does digging out all other valid areas increase spawns in the remaining areas

[ripe lily]

I believe more spawning area means more spawns but I have no clue if that is just because a greater percentage of the available spawn space is taken up and removing any other spawns would improve the efficiency.

[trim kestrel]

You can't super-concentrate spawns like this, as you kinda can in Terraria. Small spawning surface = small number of spawns, sadly. I half-arsed trying this at a world edge, and it seemed the same as elsewhere. But I doubt it's cut and dried.

BTW, bit of a null hypothesis result: I've checked that cavelings can not spawn on platforms or hoed ground. In the Forgotten Ruins biome, after a couple hours.

I hoed an area, walled it, and converted the floor in another area, walled it, where spawns definitely did work before. And the were spawns outside of this.

I checked hoed ground because I seemed to get a caveling spawn in my new farm build, on hoed stone in near the core. But I was holding a single miner caveling near by (ready for decoration). So I think they were using the other spawn mechanic. Raiding party...?

And I'm pretty sure that my guide is correct in saying that NPCs can't move into houses with floor covered in conveyor. Usually...

Because I've now also seen them move-spawn right in front of me, in the standard sized long room kill chamber. So long dimensions seem to become an exception, at some point. (Will take a lot more testing...)

[river hamlet]

What if u replace the door for a wall?

Wasent that also a problem wuth the big room?

[trim kestrel]

I have been noticing that, with the long room. Thought maybe i was just being superstitious. I'll try taking out the door on this one later, too.

[inland compass]

There appears to be no difference in hook time by item caught

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/12maJzUC0FJTSDF5cliWBzVSsuNQTJdFtX--zoBCgnvM/edit#gid=659634595
dirt biome

[trim kestrel]

So all items had catch times linearly distributed between ~8 and ~17 seconds. With the length of the graph lines just showing the difference in relative catch chance. (In still water.)

Good work. 🙂

[inland compass]

yeah

[trim kestrel]

I don't suppose that was a new character , to check fishing XP levelling? 😅

[inland compass]

nope, 100 fishing, no skill in improved bait, @ 269 fishing using a scarlet rod

so the improved bait skill does work as stated, average catch time is 25% shorter with the skill

[primal rapids]

so... 60% chance to get junk while fishing out-of-spot(?)

[inland compass]

roughtly, yeah

in the dirt biome

[river hamlet]

And?

[primal rapids]

ha! finally managed to exploit the tree growth bug

I connected the new root to the old root there, with an impossible growth tick

saved some time 😄

[trim kestrel]

All wall, no door doesn't help the NPCs more into that build I showed.

[trim kestrel]

Nice. So what you got then? Let the fun begin...?

[primal rapids]

time for the first experiment: does a 260 + 260 long root still grow

[trim kestrel]

We find out next.... Right after this 5 minute commercial break!

[primal rapids]

the answer is yes, still

the next experiment is going to take longer 😄 I have to wait 1-2h for an item to loop around

[trim kestrel]

1 to 2 HOURS...?! Why so long? You mean on conveyor?

[inland compass]

yeah, trying to get it out of the active block and back in

if roots keep blocks active, should be able to make an improved caveling farm

[primal rapids]

yeah, it shouldn't take that long, but I want to be sure

because I got so much randomness in the root-less timings, it might just take a loooong time

well, so far I've confirmed that it isn't a perfect chunk loader at least, otherwise the item would have returned already

for the record, again, these were my item loop-around timings for 128 + 128

0:06:33
0:10:08
0:07:24
0:04:52
0:06:25
0:08:33

0:04:48
0:04:47
0:04:39
0:04:54
0:04:45
0:04:52
0:04:40

still not sure if the root affected it or something else

Okay, I've waited an hour. Is that long enough? 😄

checked on the item, didn't seem to be affected by the roots at all, it was stuck close to the U-turn

[trim kestrel]

Huston, that's a negative. Negative result. (Right?)

Long root does not keep map alive...?

[trim kestrel]

What's the move speed of conveyors? 1 tile per second?

[primal rapids]

on a straight line yes

[trim kestrel]

Do corners definitely change that? (Slower/faster?)

[river hamlet]

btw someone need the compact door-thing now?

[trim kestrel]

So, I've been playing with the delay circuits. And they've got more going on that we've given them credit for, I think. But also maybe not fully implemented.

And also they seem to have a rounding error bug. Maybe that's what Nineforty was seeing, before?

[river hamlet]

compact thing with that

[primal rapids]

I think so, but haven't timed it. The belts make such tight corners that you barely touch the corner belts.

[trim kestrel]

Erm, are you talking about automatic closing doors, like this?: https://youtu.be/mnTNJcbkUPY?t=21

[river hamlet]

oh

this already exist

[trim kestrel]

Here. Made a very rough video on what I've been seeing: https://youtu.be/s0kDGxaipxs

In short:

Delay circuits integrate the amount of time an input signal was on for, during the second before, to determine a fixed (semi) analogue power level for the following second.

So, an oscillating circuit input will half the power level output by the Delay block, compared with the same input being permanently on.

Also, there's an apparent rounding error bug with Delay blocks measuring the power of the the input signal (see later in the video).

I forgot to say that it doesn't treat its inputs separately. So you can't use it as a crude analogue input adder. It, in fact, seems to ignore the second input altogether (e.g. with a pulsed input, then adding a fixed on, that should raise the output level). Favouring the one that triggered it first, I think.

[river hamlet]

any minecrafter here? dosent that seems like a coder/decoder for analog-msg's?

[trim kestrel]

The Delay circuit is kind of a DAC, yeah. Well, it turns a digital mark-space modulated signal into a fixed level pseudo-analogue output (actually 4 bit precision; 16 levels).

You could use it to digitise an analogue input signal, send that digitally via an 8 wire wide digital logic bus (losing one bit of precision because wire spacing), to another Delay Circuit, to be decoded back to an analogue signal... But goodness knows why you'd do that?! 😅

[inland compass]

anyone have any good ideas on keeping track of coordinates using the minimap?

[river hamlet]

only if u use the maptool tho?

[inland compass]

so i want to build an AI similar to the grubs that eat the walls. my thought is to use the minimap to build a relative coordinate system

[trim kestrel]

QR code in the floor pattern, every 20 tiles... 😐

[inland compass]

but i'm running into cases in my head where the minimap would change and thus you'd loose coordinate tracking

like think of clearing a long path into unrevealed map

[trim kestrel]

I don't think I understand (so I think i sleep now)...

[inland compass]

lol k

[ripe lily]

omg the logic circuit is confusing

if its powered by a 15 power block the delay through it is instant, but if its powered by a 1 power block there is a serious delay on the transmission through the block.

also does the physics run at a constant 60 tps?

cos then i can say 1 tick is 1 physics update and can measure the delay intervals based on that.

[primal rapids]

the rounding rounds down, right? so no chance of getting higher electricity numbers by rounding up with a rounding error?

[trim kestrel]

The rounding seems like a mess, from my above video.

The delay circuit has 15 possible power output levels (and off = 16, so 4 bit?).

It's able to discern a difference in length of input pulse down to a single level of output change. So that's at least 1/15th of a second resolution.

I need to have another go at dividing down the maximum speed oscillator to check its exact rate.

I'm getting under 60fps game refresh rate, in my lab, so couldn't draw firm conclusions from frame counting a recording. Though i could try reducing settings and moving somewhere quieter to fix that.

[ripe lily]

would have to do a frame by frame analysis of that

but it appears that the speed of the clock is independent of the power level of the circuit

[primal rapids]

might be related or not: I noticed that if I ride a conveyor belt past a gap in walls, the resulting "beam of light" on the other side seems to lag a lot more than if I walk past it

so if belts update with tick speed and walking is interpolated, then the lag would mean lower tick speed... I guess

but it could be anything 🤷‍♀️

[ripe lily]

yeah might have to ask the devs that one.

[river hamlet]

Wait… tickspeed like in mc?

[ripe lily]

yeah how fast does the game physics update.

[river hamlet]

so we all know the "zero tick sugar cane farm"?

[ripe lily]

yes

[river hamlet]

could this be a thing in CK...?

talking about roots

[primal rapids]

I would be wary of making too many CK assumptions based on other games. Like for one example we have no idea if chunks are a thing, at least in the sense as in some other games.

[river hamlet]

hm

[primal rapids]

also the game is developed as an ECS (entity component system), which can mix some things up

...I think

[ripe lily]

turns out i dont need to divide the fastest clock by 4, by 2 is enough to make the chests safe

[primal rapids]

and I mean knowledge from other games makes for good hypotheses, but it can also lead in the wrong direction if not looked at critically

I'm a circuitry n00b, but have you found uses for Logic Circuits as fine grained Delay Circuits? they seem to have a tiny delay at least

[ripe lily]

this is one use

also mining the root doesn't seem to have any effect

[trim kestrel]

I literally said this at the time. 😝 It's what I've been using (divide by 2).
#🎮-game-discussion message

[trim kestrel]

I'd expect that to be true.

I'm wondering if there will be intermittent cases of wire signals sometimes taking more than one tick to propagate the full lenght of their circuit, though; in Terraria multiplayer mode, this was a huge problem that made phase breaks in the transition state of actuated blocks (set to background/foreground on wire impulse).

[trim kestrel]

I played Minecraft for about 1h total. Couldn't get into it. Not keen on the first person 3D paradigm. 🤷

@primal rapids did you see me post (the correct video link for) this?: #🎮-game-discussion message

That kind of does what you asked for, regarding holding a player in-place on a conveyor, temporarily.

https://youtu.be/NOvzc5FT3lg

[primal rapids]

yeah, it's one possibility, although did you say it's difficult to automatically turn on/off?

[trim kestrel]

Well, that would be a whole other endeavour, perhaps. Building a big timer circuit...

But you might find that one of the oscillator stages gives you a semi-stable hold, that breaks after a repeatable amount of time. Would take a bunch of testing to confirm.

So it could be passive, with, like a series of drills that each hold player for 17 seconds, or whatever it works out, if it does.

[last moss]

is there any better design for extending a signal than just a power generator next to a logic circuit?

[ripe lily]

as far as i know that is the best

[last moss]

ty, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious

[trim kestrel]

OK, so I've confirmed that 21 tiles length (single width) is the minimum for getting your NPC to move into a house with no clear floor space (just conveyors).

I'm now wondering if the room checking logic will also ignore other obstacles, beyond this range, like furniture, etc...

Also, if that's distance is from their summoning item, bed, or like, top left corner...

[primal rapids]

more tests 🙌

[trim kestrel]

It's keyed off the bed: You can shorten the room down to 20 tiles, by putting the bed above the summon item.

So they'll spawn onto a conveyor if it's over 17 tiles from the edge of the bed, I think. I.e. into the 18th tile.

Which just so happens to be exactly one screen height. So I'm wondering if the same distance applies horizontally, or if it's further...?

[primal rapids]

okay here's a question, is it easier to just do a 120 long delay chain than something more clever with adders or something?

or, I don't know, more space efficient

[ripe lily]

120 seconds? and of the player?

and should it be a 120 second clock (ie 120 seconds on 120 seconds off)

[primal rapids]

120 on is more important, then it doesn't matter if it's 120 off or more or less

[ripe lily]

want to jump on and test some things?

[primal rapids]

in a bit maybe, sure

[trim kestrel]

I'm just trying to figure out proper flip-flops for divide by 2 with memory capability. These could cut your chain length in half , 1/4, etc, and reduce size, yes.

[primal rapids]

oh wow it looks weird powering off a long delay circuit chain

[trim kestrel]

The power output level dims down.

Right?

Gradually. I've not fully fathomed why.

[primal rapids]

yeah, in some kind of fast waves

[trim kestrel]

I think it's probably funky coding.

[primal rapids]

ah, apparently I have to afk for a bit, so can't this time

[trim kestrel]

The lonely life of a CK Uni academic... 😢

[ripe lily]

working on slow af clocks so i can turn off the drill after 2 mins

this ones 28 seconds

92 seconds

121 second clock

[trim kestrel]

Wow. Do those work correctly, as expected...?

[ripe lily]

yeah, just gotta figure out how to attach them to a drill

because the fast clock gets stuck in the wrong state too often

[primal rapids]

alright I'm back, I can hop on if you're still at it

[trim kestrel]

What's the logic behind the smallest component of them...? My brain's not doing great with abstraction, today...

I've been trying to make the simplest memory device, to divide a the rapid signal. Because what I called divide by two stages, with the auto-feedback logic gates, stop working at the 4th stage and actually go faster again.

[trim kestrel]

It's the same range horizontally. An NPC will move-spawn onto the 18th conveyor tile beyond the bed.

But they won't move-spawn onto a torch in that same position. Let alone a chest, electric stick or bulb or other item.

I guess I need to update my guide with this now... 😮‍💨

[primal rapids]

taking note of my not-so-great-latch before I forget

[inland compass]

fishing test updates

[primal rapids]

for now I have to conclude infinity's timer is probably best and most compact 😅 I think I'm still going with a chain though

[inland compass]

looks like the 20% chance literally adds 20% chance

so it is a 50% increase

[trim kestrel]

From 40% increased to 60% for getting fish from still water?

[inland compass]

yup

someone mathed wrong in the code 😄

[trim kestrel]

I think that's just how game "chance" additive 'percentages' work, no?

[inland compass]

if you had something called "crit chance"

which is already a %

just depends on if you wanted to X + or 1.X * for the increase

[trim kestrel]

Well, it says "+4% chance", like most things, that can go over 100%, etc. Not very mathy. 🤷

[ripe lily]

the whole 2 minute player delay timer

[trim kestrel]

Oh! So does the drill work to hold you stably for the full 2 minutes and everything? 😮

[ripe lily]

2 minutes on, 22 seconds off

and yes the drill is on for 2 minutes and keeps you in place, it then turns off and you get dragged away

[inland compass]

yeah I guess i read the + as increases chance to land fish, instead of the literal adds +20% to chance to catch fish. One adds 10% to 40% the other adds 20% to 40%

[primal rapids]

for size comparison here's a 120 delay circuit chain (I'm hurting for space a bit, so weird shape)

[ripe lily]

you do need a fair bit of health regen, without any armor i was take about 400 dmg over the 2 minutes

[inland compass]

did you test to see if drills pull you while immune to damage?

[primal rapids]

not yet

[trim kestrel]

Did you try with one of my rapid pulse stages, that seem to do less/no damage. But maybe less stable hold.

[ripe lily]

this is a div by 2 clock, i could maybe try dividing by 4

[primal rapids]

correct me if I'm wrong, but what I could tell, drills ignore armor (also no durability loss)

[trim kestrel]

That's not bad. Seems almost as compact. And who knows, maybe more reliable...?

[trim kestrel]

I thought they'd hurt my armour...

[primal rapids]

this is my "stand in a drill for 2 min" set up

[trim kestrel]

Oh, ok. The 2 stage seems to be the most reliable, of the 4 stages I tried (above): #977128133142659102 message

[ripe lily]

this one~~ holds you as well~~ doesn't not hold you and its real slow

[trim kestrel]

Could you also have a series of , say 4 drills, with a 30 delay loop attached to all of them. So they all only go off for 1 second every 30. And you take 4x30 to pass through them all...

Multiply the hardware, rather than the logic, if that's the more compact option.

[ripe lily]

never mind, it doesn't work consistantly

[trim kestrel]

The divide by 4? That's what I was wondering if I was seeing. But doubting myself now and recehcking.

[ripe lily]

divide by 4 and 8 both dont work

[primal rapids]

huh, I somehow placed a double chest, tried to break it to move it 1 block lower, broke a platform from underneath the chest instead 🤨 can't reproduce

[ripe lily]

it holds if you start in the drill, but it cant catch you if you are folling past

[trim kestrel]

Oh. You meant mechanically doesn't work, to hold player reliably. Yeah, as I say 2 stage (div 2) oscilator has most stable hold.

[ripe lily]

yeah i agree

you take more dmg, but you stay for sure.

also doing the div 2 like this

ensures that when it is off it is off, it doesn't stay on accidentally

which can sometimes happen if you were using a generator instead of electricity stick on one of the pass through logic circuits.

[trim kestrel]

Good tip. But can you chain it arbitrarily long?

[ripe lily]

yes

[trim kestrel]

Do we think that it's intended that logic lamps conduct power, too? Like, doesn't that get in the way of their function?

[primal rapids]

hard to tell, but it sure is annoying sometimes that everything conducts power

[trim kestrel]

Thanks. I don't know why I just couldn't get there on that... 😖

[ripe lily]

i messed up, its supposed to be slower, i just realised i didnt put a stick on the last logic circguit

[trim kestrel]

Can you turn that on-off and it'll stop?

[ripe lily]

you can if its like this

for some reason having the gens on the bottom row messes it up

no it still can be messed up

so it can get stuck on

[trim kestrel]

Can you add another few stages and have it go even slower....? I seem to get my later stages also flashing on and off rapidly....

[trim kestrel]

How'd this work? Input at the bottom, right? And it stays on once activated? Can you reset it? What's it used in potentially?

[primal rapids]

power from left, set from bottom on rising edge, reset from top (needs a long-ish pulse) on falling edge... kind of a weird set up

[ripe lily]

its temperamental

[primal rapids]

was trying to figure out a compact latch... or any latch for that matter

[ripe lily]

i haven't figured out the effect of having wires on top of circuits yet

so that may make it possible

[primal rapids]

wires inside circuits/mechanical thingies are my nightmare

[trim kestrel]

Do you think that changes their behaviour in a deliberate way? Or at least, a stable way?

[primal rapids]

they can randomly shut off a drill, or make doors work unpredictably

[trim kestrel]

Right.

[ripe lily]

yes, it is consistant, but it can seem random

[trim kestrel]

Hmm.

Had you figured this out?:

So, with this simple circuit, earlier, you can see that the game's electrical logic update code is asynchronous: https://youtu.be/JYuj6uNGCV8

The output logic gate will only do it's little activation blip if the wire length from the delay circuit is shorter than the wire length to the inhibitor logic gate (on the generator).

[ripe lily]

eg this

trippy af, but follows a pattern

[trim kestrel]

And you can't see what gate's under the wire until it's turned on... 😵‍💫

But I don't see how adding gates to the wires should ever produce a behaviour that's different to just having the wire...?

[primal rapids]

looks like you can dash while snared

[trim kestrel]

I added a section on the NPC melee farm to my NPC guide (not ideal picture 🤷 ):

[trim kestrel]

Were you looking at a standard SR latch, etc?: https://www.electrical4u.com/gated-s-r-latches-or-clocked-s-r-flip-flops/

The issue is, a basic nor gate makes an output blip on input changes that shouldn't turn it on, I think... (Is what I found with my first test.)

[ripe lily]

yes

[primal rapids]

looks like a lightning strike

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, very pretty... 😀 But, see, that's not how a binary counter should look. If each stage were dividing by two.

Past a couple of stages it's kind of, more... subtracting...? I'm sure it's interesting mathematically, but not at all what I was hoping for. 😕

[ripe lily]

what seems to happen is it gets slow enough that the loop is powered long enough for 2 flashes so it resets

[trim kestrel]

Right. So my thought was to put a blip generator stage between each divise by two, so they couldn't be activated long enough to enter oscillator mode themselves. That make sense?

[trim kestrel]

This did the trick! 😃 Behold, Core Keeper's first ever 6-bit binary counter (with count memory, reset and different clock inputs!) 😮 : https://youtu.be/k6DIZvPfRys

[primal rapids]

wow, you did it

so with 7 bits you could make a 2min timer, right? or am I dumb

[analog orbit]

Ofc he did

He's zero gravitas

The one and only

Master of all

Okay I'll stop now lol

[primal rapids]

so the next question is, is it smaller than infinity's, and is it smaller than a delay circuit chain 😄

it looks like it might be

[ripe lily]

it certainly looks like it can be made smaller

and if you power it with a slower clock, you can get much longer times

(ie, the 8 second clock)

[river hamlet]

Woow

[ripe lily]

here is said smaller, longer clock

worked out to be longer than 2 minutes, but i suppose you could tweak things to make it exactly 2 mins

[primal rapids]

yeaaahhh... soooo... drills ignore "immune to damage" buff 👀

let me rephrase: you take damage from drills while invulnerable

also you lose food from conveyors and they trigger the "running consistently" buffs

makes me want to test whether you get XP from conveyors, even though I've heard you won't

but I've also heard you don't lose food, so...

[trim kestrel]

I'd noticed the buff proc, yeah, but not reliably? I'd not expected food use...

Is it an edge case, like, literally? E.g. cornering and coming off the ends? Might be exploitable... 🙂

[primal rapids]

I seemed to get it consistently, didn't do too many tests though

[trim kestrel]

Did you pick up on my vid description note? It looks like delay circuit time interval be 32 ticks, with 30 ticks per second.

So awkward for real world time intervals. E.g. dor a real time clock, you'd need to make a complex binary counter with customised reset logic, to actually get a 30 tick (1 second) interval. But rare you'd need that.

[trim kestrel]

Right, exactly this. Going from 1 Delay circuit input clock, to a chain of four, you could chop off the last stage of the counter and still double up to four minutes.

The lower row of logic gates are also just 'display drivers'. So they amd lamps can be removed.

Note the counter's internal logic is inverted; without those inverters it would appear to fount down. Which is fine dor many uses.

The reset line at the top couald obviously be removed too. If always running it to completion.

I'm not 100% that the counter chain can't be optimised, either...?

Does your build so all this, Infinity?

Oh, and of course, a single stage of the counter works as an (instant) latch, or state toggle. If you wanted this too, @primal rapids ?

[trim kestrel]

Good job testing, thanks. 👍

[ripe lily]

Just a note on this, if you are on a conveyor but are not travelling any distance (held by a drill) you don't loose any food and consistent running doesn't trigger

[ripe lily]

my build does everything here, it has 4 storage gates.

Also i'd say that the fast clock has a 2 tick period, 1 tick on 1 tick off (because the game physics calculation happens twice in this cycle) meaning that the game runs at 60 ticks per second and 1 tick is 0.01666... seconds.

so the delay counter lasts for 64 ticks

or 1.0666... seconds

[trim kestrel]

I'm not 100% mentally clear on this, but the least significant bit of my counter is controlled directly by the 1 tick oscillator, so a state transition (either on or off) increases the count by 1.

And the counter takes ~2 seconds to reach a count of 64 (reset to 0). So ~32 transituons per second.

Most significant bit exactly in sync with the single Delay circuit loop.

[ripe lily]

ok so consider 1 single logic circuit, on tick 1, the circuit has 2 powered inputs, so the game says output power

the next "tick" the game checks the logic circuit and see that 3 inputs are powered, so the game says dont output power

this is each tick of the fastest clock

this gets cycle get repeated every 2 ticks, so the clock is a 2 tick clock

and is the shortest possible clock

this is why the pulse logic gate works, because the length of the pulse is 1 tick (it is on for 1 tick then off).

[trim kestrel]

Ok And...?

I totally agree the fastest clock's period is 2 game (electronics) ticks. But my counter counts transitions, not full periods.

[ripe lily]

does it do both rising and falling edge?

it looks like it only does rising edge to me

[trim kestrel]

Yes. I cheat, by displaying the input clock line as the first bit.

So bit 2 (second from right), divides period by 2 and has 4 tick period.

3rd has 8 tick. 4th = 16 tick, 5th = 32 tick, 6th = 64 tick. And takes 2 seconds to loop. Hence 64/2 = 32 ticks per ~second.

(Actually 30, but for simplicity we pretend Delay circuit is actually 1 second.)

[primal rapids]

alright, I'm done with this for now 😄 fully automated azeos: https://youtu.be/7x_5-Af0tVU
there's a few minutes of slack there that could be improved, also the food situation means I can't afk it without getting some max health upgrades, but whatever

also as a warning: don't watch the whole video

nothing happens really

too bad the invulnerability didn't work out :/

[ripe lily]

how does he get respawned?

would have to be manually right?

[primal rapids]

I have no idea 🤣

[trim kestrel]

Wut...?! You were making an AFK Azeos farm this whole time?! No way, thought you were still on ivy!

So the egg doesn't get broken, presumably? By keeping it off screen, or, what....? How'd you start it up? I wanna see more of the farm itself!

And do you have to stay pretty much entirely on that one square, for it to work? So you couldn't have a series shorter drill stalls for this, then....?

[primal rapids]

well, there is some room, but mostly it's a 3x3 spot where you have to stay

[trim kestrel]

And you made a 12 minute (?) conveyor loop?! Wow. That's gotta be optimisable. 😅 (I have some ideas to test.)

[primal rapids]

I was going to do a long loop, but then I decided to just do a short loop so it keeps doing the drill hold until another spawn

there is 3-4 minutes that could be shaved off though

maybe 5

I think fully automating the first three bosses could be viable too, you would just have to hold the place button... with invulnerability it would probably be even easier

[trim kestrel]

2 minute timer? (I recognise what's happening there! 😅)

Oh wait, it's just comparing to the 2s delay loop.

[trim kestrel]

Yes, for sure. Just with spikes, a bed and a door to tp into it, right?

So you've won Core Keeper AFK esition, essentially! 😆👍🎖️

[primal rapids]

it's not that easy I don't think, but add conveyors to that and maybe

now, if you take out invulnerability it becomes a bit more difficult, because you have to get in to the boss and out (maybe it's fine for the boss to push you out, if it doesn't do damage yet at that point)

I'm so burned out on the azeos though, I'm not even going to try 😅

also every time I thought something was simple with that build, there were new issues, so it's easy to fall for that

in the end the food is what broke it yet again

[ripe lily]

i just went frame by frame through a recording of this

and its real weird and im no longer sure of anything

gah

but from what i can tell the physics updates at 30 tps

as in the video was recorded at 60 fps and each flash of the bottom clock stayed on for 2 frames, then off for 2 frames.

[trim kestrel]

Ah, nothing beats direct video evidence! 😄👍

I'm running at around 45fps, in my dirt lab, so frame peeping gave me a stuttering view of events (sometimes 2 frames, or more, or 1 even...). Not so helpful.

But I'd asume the background electronics logic runs at 30 tps, even when frames dip lower. Terraria dis this. So in-game counting should be reliable, too. Though might slip during auto-saves, or bad stutters... 🤷

I'm hesitant to automatically assume that physics runs at 30 tps, too. But I think you were saying that you noticed light source lag? Or something else. So there's evidence that it's more general, I guess.

Devs really trying to squeeze performance out, versus such a big world simulated, with up to 8 players all over the place. Kinda hard.

Makes me wonder whether client or server run physics, electronics. Or both for in lock-step...?

[trim kestrel]

@primal rapids - we should talk about details of farms and stuff in here, too right? #🎮-game-discussion message

I guess it might depend on the starting position of your ghorm...? Although, I've not tested mine much, to be honest.

[primal rapids]

yeah, true

[trim kestrel]

How much charge up time?

I wasn't even sure this was a thing.

I've not seen anyone quantify it, since I joined the discord.

[primal rapids]

yeah I've always been doubtful about the drill stuff, and dreaded looking into it

[trim kestrel]

Of course, you can't read the damage numbers off ghorm, all stacked in the middle of his body.

[primal rapids]

but it does look like the time I take between kills affects if it goes down in 1 shot, 2 shot or breaks everything

[trim kestrel]

But if they do still stack damage up indefinitely, I'll have another go at making an auto-npc farm!

Like, they don't do it to players though, which is interesting.

Although, as you say, they ignore invulnerability. So have some kind of special treatment.

Oh, actually. Was it nineforty showing off giffs of using the wilderness unbreakable ruins structures to hide drills behind and one-hit mobs?

If drills stack their 12 damage per second linearly, indefinitely, then I figure that to one shot an NPC (with 100k health) it would take 34 minutes of idle time before letting them drop in. Heh.

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. Annoyingly, the first hit doesn't even show a damage number...:

Oh, I thought of a major design improvement: if it does work like this, with 12 damage per tick since the last thing hit, then I can just create a row of the drills, either side of the conveyor, and have more than 4 unload on an NPC in sequence... 2 per second, so might need poison ground, too.

I feel like it's not going to be that simple, though. Like do the drills need to be drilling on something for that whole time....?

Speculation about the drill "catchup" mechanic here: #🎮-game-discussion message

Can't find the gifs I remember seeing...

[inland compass]

Won't the first drill prevent the npc from moving down the conveyor?

[trim kestrel]

Shucks. Very good point. I like your joined up style of thinking... 😅

Well. I assume so... I'm not 100%, with one either side... It would with player, right?

[inland compass]

Yeah it does for the player

I guess the next movement tick of the npc would free it

[trim kestrel]

I'd bet not. They seem to love drills, even when they're off... 😆

Made a little gif of NPCs spawning in front of player, for my guide.

Also, a longer video (for reference): https://youtu.be/F6G-HxkZQhY

And what struck me is that they get killed at different times, but spawn together (30 seconds later)...

I really fell like the game does spawning in waves, or rather, moves around the map only spawning in one area at a time, or something...

Although, some people get reliable 10s respawns on their NPCs? @fickle elk

[fickle elk]

I'm actually not getting reliable spawns sometimes, so idk

sometimes it's normal, sometimes it messes the spawn up

[trim kestrel]

Gotta love inconsistent inconsistency... (That's the story of my life, really.) Thanks. 👍

[trim kestrel]

I've had the same result as the one I showed, there. This time with leaving the drills running for 100 minutes before moving the NPC in.

Idea being 4 x 12 damage x 60 second x 100 min = 288k damage burst. Apparently this wasn't the case.

But it's probably worth trying having the NPC pre-positioned in the drills, then moving far away from the area to see if the drills will literally dish out all their damage in one hit when returning...

(I feel like that's actually a trick specific to boulders, that devs have hacked into place, maybe.)

[trim kestrel]

I feel like this is close to making something possible for AFK player stall and continue designs...

The idea being that (automatic) doors can pop players over a single thickness wall. Or jam them into a double thickness to reset to bed. Let you TP back to a bed...

Of course, you could just AFK with a movement key held down, to walk into a (closed) door on a delay timer. Which would be valid. Though not quite as showy.

[primal rapids]

that setup in the gif would work, if the drill was a wall, but for some reason the game just does not want to put you through a drill

[serene kraken]

@ripe lily Very interesting stuff in this thread. Thanks for making the thread.

[inland compass]

Any idea how thick the obsidian walls? Could you use the door to pop you through?

[analog orbit]

Probably yeah

[inland compass]

Could test it by moving an npc house next to an egg, then have a drill or arm be the only valid spawn spot and they'll teleport around

See if they teleport inside the blocked off area

[trim kestrel]

You mean the NPCS, no player...? I'm imagining the obsidian eggs in the Wilderness are just solid, no? Given that they've not made the game content for them...?

What does it look like in the mold dungeons that go through the wilderness side walls?

I was thinking of using the door hoik trick to pop out of malugaz arena. But there's no advantage, really... If there were a totally sealed area, that'd be a cool entrance exit method, of course. Impenetrable fortress! 😅

[inland compass]

yeah the npcs teleport around a bit when they spawn in an invalid tile

and after posting that I too thought that the inaccessible areas may be solid wall, but who knows

[long dagger]

those obsidian shaped eggs r most likely just filled since theres mold dungeons and other structures that can generate in it

and theres still obsidian walls around those structures within the egg

[trim kestrel]

Right. (I'm wondering if these will be crystal biomes, or something sneaky like that. When players expecting another 1/3rd of map to open... I mean there's 4 biome expansions planned. I'm off topic, sorry.)

[trim kestrel]

Do you mean?: Like when they walk into the space where a piece of furniture or automation should be, while you're over 80 tiles away, then they get pushed out of that tile.

After all my guide writing. I just had a stubbon NPC who would not move in. Long distance moves seem really flakey sometimes. I had to go back to the core, where he was, then he tp'd out by the time I got back...

[inland compass]

no, https://craiginsdev.com/img/screenshots/CoreKeeper_9I3XRn5x6x.gif

they can spawn on the arm, but then recognize it is an invalid tile. the game then appears to pick a random xy offset and teleports them again

apparently Pit is a valid tile, lol. if there were more wall he would keep teleporting

lol nevermind, when i broke the wall to make it so i could get a picture of him floating he teleported around till he landed up by the torch

so in theory, if the inside of the egg was hollow, you could fill the surrounding area with wall, spawn them in and see if they can teleport inside the egg

and since they have their own light source, it would illuminate inside

i originally had it to try to get all their junk outside their room and hopefully to auto sorted chests, but that teleporting killed the idea

[half heath]

Is there any way to sort ores into furnaces? I've seen sorting with chests that are full and drill pulses, but I can't think of way to do what I want with the tools we have currently

[trim kestrel]

I was going to say just replace the chests in an auto-sorter with furnaces...

But furnaces pose additional challenges, because they can get jammed on the output side, if the ore gets used up and a different type gets put in...

And you can't use robot arms to unload them, because they'd also take off the surplus ore types...

Wait. Can you just 3 furnaces and 2 smelters with robot arms, and that's it...? Have a chest sorting system at the end that accepts the processed metal, but recyles ore back to the start. Yeah, I think that would work... (In my head.)

[trim kestrel]

Did you see my little video where I made my beardy guy fly on purpose?: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zB1NuinjGQg

Posted here on the discord: #📷-ck-media message

That was the method I described above.

But did you see your NPC spawn on top of the robot arm? I'd been testing trying to do that on purpose and couldn't make them spawn on any solid item.

What's your room's exact dimensions, if so? specifically, the number of tiles from the foot of your bed to the arm's tile?

[long dagger]

npc busy being possessed

[long dagger]

the best i can think of is having 2 inputs for ores, one for furnace ore and one for smelter ore since i dont think itd work with 1 chest if the order of ore put in is random

[trim kestrel]

I feel like it should work, with mixed ore input, just a linear series of and recycling to handle the transitions... But i'm probably overlooking some detail.

[long dagger]

im not sure if it can be fully automated with an off and on switch with a single input

but for sorting between furnace and smelter with a switch sounds doable but prob not ideal if u went less player input

[trim kestrel]

I'll have a quick go at it some time, maybe tomorrow

[long dagger]

pedestals can only hold 1 item max, even if the item stacks which may help, what i think u can do is sort all the ore in its own chest, pull 1 stack out from every chest after to smelt, then from the pedestal fill the chest back up for the item sorter

and u could maybe refill the pedestals and restack them automatically

i dont think i explained it that well but i can try getting the basic layout for it to showcase without the wiring since i prob wont be able to do it

[trim kestrel]

So, drills do need to be unloaded (far away) to spool up their damage; I succeeded in 1-tick killing an NPC here! 😎 I teleport back to the bed, after being >400 tiles away for 90 minutes (I think I could halve that time).

(You can also see the copper bolder releasing 22 ore in one lump.)

Watching the load-in animations on the furniture and such makes me realise that the stretched tulips people are seeing are probably from this animation failing to complete, rarely.

And not all the items animate, which is interesting. Not sure it has any meaning...

[long dagger]

im too dumb to understand y these 2 layouts give different outputs, does the 1 signal strength rly affect it?

[trim kestrel]

What you trying to do?

[long dagger]

was trying to make the one pulse wiring off the top of my head and decided to mess with it a lil

[long dagger]

trying to set it up for what i said above

i think its doable with 2 switches

for the auto smelter

still building the 1st test design

[trim kestrel]

On an electrical signal level? On and off every couple of seconds or something? (I don't see why you'd want to toggle anything like that.)

[long dagger]

it was a one pulse for storage sorting

2nd lever gonna be for after the sorting is done, could be done with a single switch if theres a long enough timer made

[trim kestrel]

Pedestals seem to have no use for automation. They function just like dropping stuff on the ground, right? Or can they be used to peel off a single item, if you're smart about it?

[long dagger]

ye, to get a single item

thats how itd be if my idea actually works for it

itll be kinda bulky

it can prob be done all from one input without need a 2nd or having to restock the pedestals

i should get it done before i say more incase it fails

[trim kestrel]

BTW, this is the (4-tick oscillator) circuit that's best for using with a chest sorting system, so the drills never break anything:

[long dagger]

even when 80+ blocks away?

the chest sorter im using for the auto smelter is less compact since its more ideal to have the chests on one side

adjustments can be made later if it works

[trim kestrel]

I've not tested that much. Don't know. Only tried it on an NPC farm when i had to be there anyway.

[inland compass]

Sorry missed the question. In the gif you can see the miner spawn on the arm. Standard room size, 20-21 conveyors from the beds and idols.

One empty spot that I'm standing on.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, lol. the action starts like 15 seconds into the gif...! Cool.👀 😆 Idol distance isn't important. Is there 20 or 21 tiles in between the bed and the arm?

[trim kestrel]

So, arms can put stacks of items into pedestals...! And take them out, while player can only take 1 at a time. I think that must counts as a bug.

Which means you can't use them to peel off individual items. I just tried a setup that would have done.

[long dagger]

I just checked too, rip

😫

And I thought I was getting somewhere

[trim kestrel]

I feels you're over-complicating thing, though. Try simplest possible builds and see what it does, might discover shortcuts.

I'm off catch y'all laters.

[long dagger]

I think the pedestals were the only way

heres part of what i managed to make, had to keep rebuilding over small mistakes. i havent placed the wiring yet but it may need to be expanded for it. the idea is to get the ores from the chest, onto the pedestal to split it into 1 that stays in the pedestal and rest of the stack onto the floor, the stack then gets pulled and put into the smelter then the single ores get cycled in order back into the auto sorter so it can be reused. the input will work with any order of ore in a stack of 998 or less once the filters r set, missing ore shouldnt break it, may need 2 levers (the one pulse for the auto sorter may be left on so im not counting that as a lever). prob just add an overflow chest if u wanna put in more than 998 of a single ore type or for other accidentally input items

wont work on it anymore unless if they fix the bug with the mechanical arm and pedestal

[inland compass]

looks like 21 conveyors from the main room

[half heath]

I've messed with this a little and still haven't come up with anything. I think you're right though, if you were doing only ore, it should be possible. I'm trying to build smelting into a sorting system, so random garbage gets slapped into the furnaces that can't get smelted and just stays there.

Also I just realized I'm pretty sure I've watched terraria your terraria videos a long time ago.

[fickle elk]

So, hey, hello there. I was actually testing the npc killing farm, and You actually don't need floors on the building

Still with the problem of the spawn tho. Sorry if that was obvious, just wanted to share here

At least in like 5-6 times I killed the npcs like that, it was less spaced on time between the kills(with various conveyors, sometimes I killed one npc, and the other one took more time to die)

the conveyour on top was just a test btw

Again, sorry if that was actually obvious/tested. I'm actually not that smart when it comes to put together automated stuff like what is in here, but felt like this could help some of the people here that actually knows the game mechanics better

[ripe lily]

lel

[analog orbit]

Huh how?

Oh

Arms huh?

[ripe lily]

yeah, if the arm places it in it can stack

[analog orbit]

Yeah though so

[ripe lily]

because stacks of objects are treated as 1 object

[analog orbit]

Yeye

[ripe lily]

you can only manually remove them 1 at a time tho

[analog orbit]

Oh

Fam

Dam*

[ripe lily]

(unless you use arms)

[analog orbit]

True!

I like that tho

[agile zinc]

What happen if you just punch the pedestal? It drop the stack or only 1

[analog orbit]

Probably the stack

[river hamlet]

I think it works also if shift klicking

[ripe lily]

****

[river hamlet]

?

Whats wrong with u?

[ripe lily]

i cant do a combined auto smelter cos of this

[river hamlet]

Hahahha

[long dagger]

this has potential if the bug gets fixed

[river hamlet]

We need itemscanners or something

[long dagger]

The auto chest sorter works to sort stackable items, the pedestals (if fixed) can let u take out the items and restock a single item from a full stack

[ripe lily]

stuck using this

except it doesnt work gah

dont mind me just loosing my mind over here

[river hamlet]

U cant grab the gold out rigth?

[ripe lily]

i forgot to grab anything out in the above design

[river hamlet]

Also it is so, that smelters dont work anymore if they smelted 999

Ah rigth

But… u cant grab anything out of the input from the smelter?

[long dagger]

only by destroying it

[river hamlet]

Item filter is the go for i think

But how?!?!?

A chest full of gold?

But what if the chest is full?

Or u cant grab items out of it

(If u dont want to destroy the Filter)

[analog orbit]

Use a tic drill and use a boss chest

Use their width to your advantage

Place the drill on the left side of the chest and make it so it pulls items

One mech arm throws more of the stuff you need in and if it doesn't go inside the chest, the drill moves it away to another section, once everything is in place turn on the smelter arms and let them do their work

So use a level to activate two things

Which yes would require more manual work for stuff you're trying to automate

But it would probably be more useful that way

You're still doing the least amount of work to get it all separated

[ripe lily]

fixed it

oh ffs

it doesnt work, because it the bars get placed in a smelter with nothing in it, they can't be removed

[river hamlet]

Yup

[ripe lily]

I put a suggestion to fix that issue.

[long dagger]

pedestals would be better for all items imo

[ripe lily]

Using pedestals is a terrible way to do it, even if it works exactly as you intend it to work you are forced to make each smelter only accept 1 ore input instead of being flexible.

Your way would also require several changes to the way things work currently, instead of just 1 small change.

It also forces the whole system to be much bigger and more resource intensive.

[long dagger]

true but i dont think theres any other working method for random ore input

it can accept more than one ore input, itll just overflow any ore that has a stack of 999 or more

of one ore type*

[deft pulsar]

Has anyone tried a theory of spawning chunk in wilderness + stone? like blocking a block of 8x8 emppty land and see which will spawnin it?

[ripe lily]

There is, my last one would work perfectly if the 1 small change was made.

[half heath]

What do you guys do with the annoying stuff that comes out of NPC grinders? (necklaces, muskets, caveling drops, and scrap)

[river hamlet]

Delete

[half heath]

manually with the trashcan in your inventory, or is there a better way?

[river hamlet]

Theres no better way

Or u can make a new world, set up the farm and then just delete the whole world after afking

[half heath]

I kind of thought about it for a bit but I feel like making an item deleting macro would probably be faster

[long dagger]

thats if they decide to fix

honestly id just want new wiring tools overall

to fix these issues

[river hamlet]

The thing is u cant pick up that much items… with a macro u need about 10 delete slots or so i think :hmm:

And just hope, that u never press it in the ‚normal‘ game haha

[long dagger]

cant u just sort all the items youd want and let the overflow just be dropped off in a pile that u stay away from

trashing them manually doesnt seem ideal

[long dagger]

have a small auto sorter with overflow for trash + that

i skimmed the chat yesterday and if im not mistaken i saw someone mention having a timer for a drill for 2 minutes, im curious what would that be useful for

[river hamlet]

Afk azeos

I think

[half heath]

I imagine it will create lag eventually. I'm going to run it overnight and see how bad everything is

[long dagger]

👀

i thought about something based off what @ ZerGravitas did with killing the npc with drills. u could prob do that for every boss that stays stationary then have the player leave the area and power the drills from far then wait it out

not ideal for any farms but would be nice for 1 tic kills after waiting it out

[trim kestrel]

I need to test to see if the built up drill damage will wait to hit something spawned (or moved) in next to it. (I'm expecting so.)

In which case you can probably do a silly "one drill kill" on malugaz, ghorm, maybe Azeos(?), but not ivy/glurch or mother (they destroy close drills on spawning). Unless the drill will also retain accumulated damage after being turned, to hit an already spawned mother.

[trim kestrel]

Are you asking?: What will spawn on a stone surface in the wilderness?

My guess is nothing. Because there are small sections of this naturally.

But if it specifically spawned e.g. hunters (not farmers), that could be marginally useful.

I'm curious to see someone take a closer look at getting a transplanted group of cavelings to spawn others near by (raising parties, I think), in the wilderness.

A big group of cavelings held in clay caves disn't spontaneously spawn more around them. But I suspect if i were to afk, just off screen, with a clear path to me, they'd spawn a raiding party. (From what others say.)

Question (related to item sorting): how to caveling tables interact with robot arms? Anything unique, interesting?

[deft pulsar]

yes, sometime i found a group of caveling chase me while I was in my center base. Just randomly happen. Don't even know where they started and I was just in my base building stuff for hours. and In Wilderness, I only find that they spawn on grass land . i have been afk on this farm for 36hrs and only get around 100-150 mobs killed base on their drops.

[trim kestrel]

When you say "they" only spawn on grassland, you mean gardeners and hunters, right? (Not regular cavelings, of course.)

[deft pulsar]

yeh,ofcourse

just asking around if someone found something that trigger their spawn rate

[trim kestrel]

And how many drops you get, exactly?

And what's the ratio of gardner to hunter spawns? (@primal rapids) Like 2:1?

Wiki says only 12% chance to get a drop from hunter, 70% from gardener.

And I wonder if existing wilderness mobs block more from spawning over a wider area than with other types?

So, if they acxumulate around the edge of your 150 tile (or whatever) load-in area, but are stuck there on landscape because you're standing still, will that slow down spawns a lot?

[primal rapids]

the ratio feels like 1:1, but no data other than a hunch

often when I find a new hunter, I also find a new farmer lurking around causing me trouble

also, this is also just a hunch, but I feel like there might not be a spawn cap, or spawns limited by existing mobs (other than that the game won't spawn them on top of each other, so they will in practice reduce spawnable tiles)

I guess that is testable by having two areas, you record spawns in one area and then as soon as possible move the mobs to the adjacent area

the recorded area should stay empty

so if the spawns in the empty area gradually go down or stop at some point -> there is a soft or hard spawn cap

I think someone did tests like that, but I don't know if it was to record the spawns or just to test the wall/gap jumping glitch

[deft pulsar]

but given the tentacle for example, they wont get over a certain per each area. I think they cap at 1 per 30-40 connected moldy land. sometime i left my farm afk for the whole weekend, after coming back, i get maxed 12-15 tentacle on my farm

same as for the slime, if you block the area and dont kill them, you will get 1 slime per 3-5 ground patches

[ripe lily]

Anybody else get the bug where after a while in the NPC farm, the buffs from your skills no longer get applied (ie. no more fast and furious, building anger, stubborn fighter, or poison coated weapons stacks)?

[trim kestrel]

So, 6 weeks back, I set up a series of regular slime surface cells, all 8x8, from the core out to one well well in side the wilderness. To test for spawn range, caps and approximate rate, maybe...

Range: While I was mostly at the core, the cell at the core hit ~6 slimes. But only a couple spawned in the cells out around 200 tiles and nothing at all past the ghorm ring.

Cap: the cell at the core seemed to hard cap at 8 slimes. While the one in the wilderness (after doing some exploring, dungeoning, not so close by) hit up to 12 slimes.

A smaller 7x7 cell, at the far edge of the stone biome hit 9 slimes. So seemingly a higher cap than the dirt biome.

[ripe lily]

so seems like its best to make farms in the wilderness for highest rates

i wonder whether spawning stuff like grubs is the same

more likely to get grubs in wilderness (on hive ground) than in an actual hive

[trim kestrel]

I'd say wilderness best bet for mobs farms, yeah. Maybe 50% higher spawn cap, for slimes (if that even comes into effect, though)...

The 8x8 right next to my lab is still at 8 slimes, btw, like 150 hours later, heh. The next one alone, too. So it's not fluke.

While the 8x8 in the middle of the ghorm ring only has 5 in it. It's further from where I've mostly been. But I think it's the other slimes around it blocking that going any higher.

.
The redditor with the wilderness "zoo" had loads of cavelings (raiding parties) spawning there, too. But multiplayer friends boost that a lot, it seems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/CoreKeeperGame/comments/u407dm/my_almost_done_azeos_base_sorry_for_the_bad/

Don't know abou mob caps for anything else. Like, obviously the infected can go kinda bananas even in the dirt biome...

[ripe lily]

yeah multiplayer definately boosts rates

[trim kestrel]

I checked that mobs can spawn on single tiles of spawn surface. Which they clearly can. (But not on torches.)

Note: 3 together on a 3 tile island (bottom left). But it's hard to say that means they can spawn (almost) on top of each other, since you often get multiple spawning together simultaneously.

[trim kestrel]

I wanted to do this, but never got around to it in a controlled manner...

I kind of confirmed that an equal sized spawn surface with only half conveyor coverage, may be as effective at moving the mobs out as full conveyor coverage.

Spawn rates are never that high that it's a big deal if the mobs take a somewhat random walk out of there. Could save time and conveyors on big builds.

[trim kestrel]

So, it seems caveling tables act like 2x2 chests with only 4 slots and an external display of contents...

I can't see any automation advantage to them that can't already be achieved with e 2 wide chest. 😮‍💨

The arms always put an item into the top left position, if there's a space, and take from there first too.

Once all 4 slots have an item (or stack) in them, an inwards arm will drop items on the floor as normal.

[ripe lily]

Fascinating

[long dagger]

i tried the table over the pedestal but its too bulky, wouldve been better for my design if it was a 2 by 1 and not bugged.

[inland compass]

any chance of reversing this? Stay near the wilderness spawn for a while and move into the dirt biome periodically? I wonder if it is a spawn "catchup" mechanic, like i usually see with the mold spawns. where as i load in, the system drops like 4 mobs at a time. could be pushing past the rate of spawning 1 at a time

[long dagger]

still bulky in the end, can we somehow convince the devs to add more wiring tools soon?

[trim kestrel]

I expect they will. The setup of the game is just screaming Factorio.

What I want is more input/output devices that interact with the world, mostly. Not any/much more control logic or pure electronics, as such. I kinda enjoy being limited, rather than being given all the gates, as Terraria ended up doing. 😐

[trim kestrel]

You made me wonder how a spawn cap would be keyed, off... And I'd assume it will be biome player position...?

So one might stand in the edge of the wilderness to get more caveling spawns in an adjacent ruins farm...

Cachup spawns, that's a whole other domain... I don't know.

[long dagger]

i mean terrarias a whole lot different, much more can take effect and u can make it a whole lot more compact cause of wiring power and the small tiles but i understand

[trim kestrel]

Would long minecart loops help with that. To load and unload entire map areas?

(I've got half of an starting world orbital track...)

[long dagger]

id still suggest a handful of tools like a different power source that has a different use, a button, then non basic tools

well, i just tried fill the pedestal with 998 of an item, i dropped another stack on it and the item just dropped onto the floor without filling the 1 missing item in the stack

so the auto smelter i had in mind prob wouldnt work unless if it acts differently if the bug is fixed so i could test it on an empty pedestal

[trim kestrel]

And yeah, I'd forgotten about that issue (furnaces accepting anything when empty). It screws up the setup I'd started prototyping in my head. 🙄

To be honest, it's not that much work to just put the appropriate ore into the appropriate chest, in a 5-wide array. Is it? I know automation is fun and all, but... 🤷

[long dagger]

i have another one in mind but itd need the player to restock the chests for the amount of times it gets used based off the chest slots but the limitations to the ore input is still 998 of each ore

would that still be worth making?

to make up for the 998 limit, an extra row could be added for every ore

[long dagger]

it breaks with 999... it interacts in the same way as the 998 pedestal

gotta limit input of ores to 998 for it

[long dagger]

to clearify, u could use the auto smelter 18 times (for small chests) before having to restock the side chests of 1 ore per slot to refill the auto sorter

[inland compass]

could also use conveyors to slow down

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. Can't add to a stack in a pedestal at all.

I've made a suggestion to allow pedestals to split stacks from robot arms down to a single item (can discuss here if you think I should change what I'm saying): #📋-feedback-suggestions message

[long dagger]

its perfect, thx

so what do u think about my other auto smelter idea, limit ore stacks to 998, could expand it to take in 2 of one ore if only 998 of one ore is too little but the main downside is having to restock the side chests. if using a giant chest for the side chest then the smelter can be used a total of 24 times before they need to be restocked 1 ore per item slot

[trim kestrel]

Hey. 👋 Yeah, it's a good point to make, that valid NPC rooms can be topologically split by a chasm/water and they'll still spawn on the other side. If that's the only floor space.

I quietly added this fact to my Steam guide, a couple days ago. But few will notice.

The fact that doors over 18 tiles from the bed will invalidate the room, too. An odd one.

I also credited you with showing the first AFK NPC farm like this, that right?

And any reason to have the room 2-wide, at the bottom? The beams can be controlled to not demolish the left wall, right?

[fickle elk]

Nope, my setup is just bad, I just didn't change because I was a little lazy

[river hamlet]

Thx dyno

I really always thought the song goes differently... well i meant the meme song 'sketchy s***'.

[ripe lily]

The idea would be to have this combined with your auto item sorter so all your ores (could be many stacks) all get smelted automatically before going into the correct chest.

would also combine with the npc farm

I'd also just like robot arms placing 999 stacks in chests be able to split the stack

[trim kestrel]

Oh, what happens currently, if there's not space for all 999? Does it drop them all?

[long dagger]

ye

on the floor

[ripe lily]

if you have say 1 scrap in each slot in a chest, and the arm tries to place in 999 it drops it all as if the chest is full

fortunately with the 500 it can fill all but the last slot (if there isn't room for all 500 it drops the 500 on the ground)

[trim kestrel]

I think we need to hand the devs a list of issues with the robot arm, by the sounds of it. Rather than focusing on each of the items it interacts with... 😅

[ripe lily]

yeah, we should make a doc with a list of requests/bugs/changes

[trim kestrel]

You still going to throw up your basic electronics guide, too? 🙂

[ripe lily]

yeah stil working on it

had to pause cos i had uni assignments

i might throw a doc out so others can work on it before i post it here

maybe make an infographic instead of a list of posts

[trim kestrel]

Heh. I can't believe you do so much in here and game and also have university...! 😶 I can't keep up with just this.

[primal rapids]

I got fed up with hive mother, so... https://youtu.be/Ll-_c1YZxp0 another one automated 😄

also

apparently if you block the chest with an item (the summon item here) you get a different chest

which doesn't stack with the normal one

old news(?)

[inland compass]

Yeah old news

You can also not pick it up and have her break it

Ivy and glurch do the same. Basically anything that breaks the chest without hitting it gives a different item

You can place it and pick it back up normally to convert it

[long dagger]

or drop both chest types on the same spot to combine it

[trim kestrel]

I had no idea about that. Hah! The lesser spotted virgin hive mother chest, never been hit... 😵‍💫

[trim kestrel]

That's a very neat little conveyor stall mechanism. Getting her to bump you back onto the loop! 😄

You can't abuse the bed invulnerability trick anymore, right, cos placing a summon snaps you out of it...?

[primal rapids]

I don't think placing a summon loses the buff

[ripe lily]

Here's the basics doc so far, feel free to edit/add to it.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1eLrDh3z1Dl_jDoa4zUNP_ZNieypa3f_d01LyHCoI8Fc/edit?usp=sharing

[primal rapids]

since placing a conveyor doesn't

[primal rapids]

do you think no-melee, no-ranged, no-bombs, no-spikes ghorm kill is possible?

[long dagger]

cover its track with drills

[primal rapids]

with an army of shamans maybe? just out of range of where ghorm can reach (as there is a limit)

[primal rapids]

well, preferrably also pre-wilderness 😁 I'm spitballing the idea of a true pacifist run

I think ghorm is the only real issue

[long dagger]

o...

I assume it regens when ur too far, it agros when its half hp and can screw up any build if ur close to it

[long dagger]

shamans may be the best bet but it could go wrong

[primal rapids]

kiting ghorm and dodging the shaman army could be difficult

although, maybe you don't need that many, if you can keep the ghorm aggro 🤔 but you do need quite a few to start the aggro in the first place

[long dagger]

The pedestals, if they worked like intended, would make the bottom right side a bit more automatic and not require a player to refill

The wiring can be done better to speed it up but I'm not smart enough for it 😅

[ripe lily]

the delay and clock circuits here are killing me

[long dagger]

ik, I'm sry but I just wanted to show it working

[ripe lily]

cos Zero and i did so much work on removing the delay circuit altogether to speed things up as much as possible

[long dagger]

Feel free to fix it up if u wanna bother with that 😅

[ripe lily]

so its basically an auto sorter, followed by an auto smelter

[long dagger]

Ye

[ripe lily]

but you start 1 after the other

[long dagger]

U need to cycle between the 2

And input ore after the right side finishes

[long dagger]

Whenever using it

[ripe lily]

also just fyi, a better rising edge pulse circuit is having 2 electricity sticks and ur input on a logic circuit (saves 1 logic circuit + 1 wire)

heres an example where i use it, to make a binary counter.
#977128133142659102 message

[inland compass]

Can you cheese it with the immunity buff? Lure a ton of shamans to his spawn point, throw a bed next to the summon rune and go.

Just not sure how you could kill him the first time

[long dagger]

That's impressive 😯

[primal rapids]

he one-shots pretty much anything other than the merchants though :/ but shamans just out of range of ghorm and player kiting could work

[inland compass]

Right they would have to be outside his range. He just moves so fast getting enough shamans to hit him to enrage would be tough.

Then when he enrages he'd kill them all

[primal rapids]

but he has a kiting limit, so a shaman squad just outside of that limit would be safe

although it's not a hard limit, which makes it even tougher

[inland compass]

Can you put run him pre wilderness with food buffs ?

Maybe create an inner running track and pace him using the fire aura set?

[long dagger]

Lol

It'll be painfully slow

[inland compass]

Nice way to max out running!

Lol

Could also use rail loops

Like time his speed and add in extra loops if it is too fast

[long dagger]

The set to not get slowed on slime and a standard speed food may be enough to pace it

If it's still a bit too fast u can carve a small path to the side of its track closer to the core so it'd run a longer distance than u

[inland compass]

Yeah but then you don't have fire aura

[long dagger]

Beating the boss for those items as a pacifist might not be possible

[inland compass]

Can probably batch drill damage

[long dagger]

Pretty sure he stays near its spawn, has high hp, deals lots of dmg so bringing mobs over prob won't work

Pre wilderness he said

No scarlet

[inland compass]

Ahh

Rail is pre right?

I never messed with it before wilderness

[long dagger]

Think it's just tin or iron on one of the early work stations

[ripe lily]

Tin and wood

I should know I provided and help place over 50k of them for peace and his journey into the wilderness

Can you compare the speed of that to a circuit with 1 logic circuit looping back into itself and see which is faster

_ | w | w
G | lc | w
w | w |

[long dagger]

This once doesn't even power the drill but the logic circuit shows its on for a frame

this?

[primal rapids]

does anyone have a pulse shortener design?

[ripe lily]

Yeah

[long dagger]

the drill gets powered from it

the other one doesnt