Core Keeper University

[floral tendon]

joy and sorrow in one image

[pliant scarab]

i don't seem to get poisoned at all tho

it looks like they aren't poisoned as well

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, you are grinding lava butterflies like crazy! But their drops are landing in the void, of course... 😐

[floral tendon]

💀

[pliant scarab]

maybe i'll remove the belt infront of the arm and see how it goes with the poison slime ground

[trim kestrel]

Poison doesn't apply through conveyors (other guide graphic).

[pliant scarab]

seems like it. even the burn debuff from the magma slime ground isn't present

[trim kestrel]

Right. But they should apply through traps. And slime sits atop those stone tiles.

[pliant scarab]

it looks optimal now. it gets the job done. moldlings and larvae don't even reach the kill loop so there's not much of a problem on worrying about enemy attacks destroying turrets or robo arms.

now we'll have to see how it holds up when it stacks up after an exploration @trim kestrel

sadly, i can't farm for crab figurines like you do hahah

[floral tendon]

did they fix brutes targeting the player thru walls this time 😮

[pulsar raft]

it'll be interesting to see if that works

[trim kestrel]

Maybe...? Brutes are meant to see over a wall though, aren't they...? 🤔 I think I've been confused on this issue before.

[pulsar raft]

it goes the same with range mobs and can get some issue

[floral tendon]

i feel like it would be generous to say they're meant to 😅

[trim kestrel]

Not just targeting player's 'ghost' (predicted future position).

[floral tendon]

i wiggled around next to the wall and i didn't get slapped this time

these things used to slap through 3 layers of wall 🙃

[trim kestrel]

But the whole thing with Brutes is that they sculk about in a nook and then burst out on you...

OIC. If the predicted position went within their 2 tile range, they'd break more than 2 walls?

[floral tendon]

well it's a radius of 1 with a range of 2

which means their effective range is probably around 4

because of overlap

[real void]

do mining buffs affect bomb mining damage?

[trim kestrel]

I think bombs and explosive weapons should all have two separate stats. One for explosive damage and one for mining damage. So treated separately by buffs. (RIght?)

[floral tendon]

well uh, i believe the answer is yes

since they were asking about bomb mining damage

[pliant scarab]

that's the case ever since i've bought the game last month

[floral tendon]

my poor frames

[pliant scarab]

i might try that shooting setup when i find the time

[floral tendon]

i'm playing normal though fwiw

spawns of satan 😞

ah... turrets still shoot through walls

[trim kestrel]

How cute, a butterfly sanctuary... 😍 😜

[trim kestrel]

In what context? 😶 Like, walls on bridges?

[floral tendon]

no, just

walls in general 😂

[pliant scarab]

cozzzzyyy

[floral tendon]

first wall is on a bridge, next two on ground

[trim kestrel]

👀 Oh wow! 😅 Do they sometimes hit walls? I guess it would be rare to see, as they'll mostly hit the mob that triggered them... 🤔

[floral tendon]

they definitely do hit walls most of the time

might be the collision being tied to framerate

it's a common issue in unity projects

[obtuse star]

i mean

not really

[raven owl]

I believe someone else tested this the other day and said it did, but I will check this evening

[fallow hawk]

So I guess the workbenches don't work anymore.

[lament badger]

🎶 45 annoying bugs in the code, 45 annoying bugs
You patch one out to make things right
56 annoying bugs in the code 🎶

[trim kestrel]

The confounding issue is that there's probably still a mob teleportation bug or two...

So unless you actually watched a butterfly pass through a wall(?), it's hard to be sure that the update didn't fix that specific bug. 😕

[fallow hawk]

True.

[long dagger]

👀

[floral tendon]

I'm fairly sure the bug as it existed last patch was fixed

i stress tested it quite a bit 😂

but twice i did see a butterfly hanging out inside a wall tile

but it didn't seem to be able to move out of that tile, so it's likely the same old issue

also has anyone noticed wire crossings changing modes while under floor tiles 🤔

[long dagger]

Ye, didn't have that issue before the update, it already happened twice to me in a short time span

Dunno if I triggered it accidentally or not but I thought my build broke for a sec there

[floral tendon]

good to know I'm not crazy

[trim kestrel]

Be interesting if one of you figures out a reproduction case for that. 🙂

[floral tendon]

shrug seems to happen when the game is chugging

[trim kestrel]

Is your game not , like, always chugging with all those mobs of yours? 😜

[floral tendon]

LOL

well

yeah, would explain why it keeps happening

[floral tendon]

on the bright side, you can't get hit by turret shots anymore!

[long dagger]

u can prob edit the wiring even when its under a floor tile

i don't think that was a thing before the Christmas update

[trim kestrel]

What do you guys think of being able to put pressure plates under tiles too? Good for sneaky electronics in decorative builds, eh? 🙂

[raven owl]

so, didn't have time to set up a good mob grinder for this event due to other projects and life. here's version 2 hastily put together this evening. only thing missing will be the bomb scarabs. will be collecting it tomorrow evening, so will post an update on rates compared to last time I did this both before and after I broke the first iteration.

[trim kestrel]

Be warned that bomb scarab spawn chance/rate extremely is very low and should only appear within the desert.

[raven owl]

I'm aware. the main good farm once it's built will be here to funnel in the crabs and bomb scarabs to their respective kill chambers

wasn't worth the time to set it up for them to break tiles like brutes inevitably will

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, gotta keep bomb scarabs separate, even more so. You'll need a huge collection area in the desert to get a decent rate, though.

[raven owl]

they'll probably be manual since I only want statue and they don't really drop anything too significant other than the explosive weapon

[trim kestrel]

BTW, sneaky preview: It looks like an old Terraria builder Steam friend of mine has taken to the logical conclusion pretty much all the digital wiring concepts we've talked about in here: 7-segment displays, (binary) counters, sequential flashing lights, etc, to make a racing lap timer and other things.

I'm hoping they'll post it in the discord competition. But they were concerned about explaining the function. With the language gap too.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2901279172

[long dagger]

👀

[hoary osprey]

Actually already posted, 3 hours earlier than my entry...
https://discord.com/channels/851842678340845600/1031577869450756117/threads/1052180000222232596

[lament badger]

You might have noticed as wood and coral wood can grow over any ground types now, but only need to be planted on their respective ground types. This is an intended change.

[trim kestrel]

They shouldn't grow over regular sand anymore, though. Or desert or beach sand (for wood)...?

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, thanks! I've not been watching the entry thread (updating guides and such).

Great work by both of you!

[lament badger]

I've just tested this on my own tiny wood farm and have seen wood grow over sand and coral grow over turf.

[lament badger]

Lava Rock Ground or Desert Sand Ground are two types of ground that neither Coral nor Wood will grow over, this is also intended behaviour.

[fallow hawk]

Whatever this is, I'm afraid of it.

[raven owl]

Don't worry, me too

Nearly cooked my game overnight, so will be interesting to see if it doesn't crash before I get done with work today

[raven owl]

Harvesting shortly

Will see if it crashed soon

so it crashed. don't know how long it ran in total. might be able to tell from drops

[raven owl]

so it appears rates overall are similar to when I broke the first one with cavelings, except for this time it's slimes overrunning everything else. more than likely due to the overlap of spawnable surfaces

[raven owl]

So overall, it's about 4.3 double chests worth of gear and drops. Given that amount, I'd estimate it crashed about 2 hours into work for the day after I tried to reset it this morning before leaving. so that's about 8 hours of loot. I also used to pull as many drops over a 24 hour period with the previous broken version of 1.0 so this is still an improvement, more than likely due to the magma slime tiles. for this event I'm going to let it suffice, even if I could get better rates with a few hours of work. it's just not worth the time currently.

[floral tendon]

:fine:

[long dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/its-fine-flames-sarcastic-its-fine-im-fine-all-good-gif-17936067

[floral tendon]

@trim kestrel do you happen to know if tentacles spawn on top of traps

[trim kestrel]

I assume you mean mold tentacles. I think they should. Because they always spawned into conveyor. And I think spike traps, too...

[floral tendon]

yeah mold tentacles

unless they added water traps while i wasn't looking

do you know if they aggro traps

something is breaking arms and i don't know why

[trim kestrel]

Well, I did make a drill based farm for sea tentacles. 😜

[floral tendon]

lmao

[trim kestrel]

Collateral damage from mob vs mob? Teleported mobs? Bug larva or caveling miner deliberate attacks...? 🤷

[floral tendon]

it's only mold

i was testing a tentacle farming setup

and afaik mold cavelings don't aggro traps or structures

only thing i can think of is a mob telefragging the arm on reload

but that sounds kinda dubious

[pliant scarab]

they do

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, teleported in, causes collateral damage from infected attacks, say. 🤷

I do often hear a object impact noise, in teleporting into my mob farm. Like something is getting hit once during load-in weirdness.

[floral tendon]

it can't be collateral damage, there is literally nothing else within two spawn chunks

i can only think it's the mob itself somehow popping the structure

[trim kestrel]

Who said mob tp is limited in range...? Probably some types are, to be fair.

[floral tendon]

that would be uh

quite the range

i suppose it's not outside the realm of possibility..

[fallow hawk]

I've had a few slimes travel a good distance.

[rich belfry]

Im writing up a script for a video on instructions on how to build a mob farm. Do you guys want to see my first draft when its complete? Can pick out things I may have gotten wrong or important details I have left out.

how well are the new turrets working for mob farming?

[long dagger]

turrets r very useful, especially if u stack them

[rich belfry]

stack them? how so?

like placing more than 1 on the same tile? or just putting out a ton of them in a pattern and moving the mob through the gauntlet?

[long dagger]

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2896478923

.

[rich belfry]

ok wow...thats a video all on its own

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, there are simpler turret setups, but I keep seeing pictures of them getting helplessly overwhelmed. 😅

So, personally, I might set aside the clever mob killing auto-collecting aspect to focus only on spawn algorithm. In a dirst video. And just terminate in a small spike traps room.

[rich belfry]

yaa

[long dagger]

It's a much easier build using just slimes, it may have slightly fewer turrets but it'll manage for most farms

[trim kestrel]

First draft of my updated main graphic for mob spawning guide. Many errors or difficult to understand aspects...?

[rich belfry]

sweet. I'll replace the one I was going to use. love it!

[trim kestrel]

Oh right. You working through these details too, eh? I do hope no glaring mistakes, then. 😅

Did you pick up my other updated graphics?

[rich belfry]

well since I dont know the real numbers, I just trust you. 😛

[rich belfry]

I havent yet no.

ooo thanks

one of the big challenges of writing this video script is choosing what details to put in and what to leave out.

like do they really care about the numbers for trap damage? or do they just want me to say, "use spike traps for this, and poison traps for that"

[trim kestrel]

Personally, I want to make one that sticks to the super-basics. maybe preview some of the first few graphics, but focus on showing a skeletal spawn area tree with like, just one surface type.

[rich belfry]

this is my intro synopsis: how spawning works, what causes mob spawns, how to optimize spawning, object stacking for mob manipulation, spawn cell manipulation, kill methods, collection methods, and how to put it all together when building a mob farm.

I then break each section down based on those main points and go into details

[trim kestrel]

Well, given that any spikes will work fine now. Just use spikes is the way to go for most...

You're going for an all-in-one overview then? Brave.

[rich belfry]

ya its going to be long

Im expecting a 30+ minute video

currently I'm writing out the section on object stacking and spawn blocking. I need to do the section on kill methods and collection methods. I've started the "putting it all together" part but thats not done yet. everything else is done.

currently 5 pages in. I expect the script will be around 8 pages or so when done

[trim kestrel]

By object stacking you mean tile layering?

[rich belfry]

yes

I just renamed it to tile layering in my script for clarity

[trim kestrel]

Devs have tweaked a couple things on that. I think just minor. Like, those 3x3 and 2x2 don't share a layer any more, they can be put on top of each other (but glitch visually).

[rich belfry]

I was going to focus on the tiles that are commonly used for mob farms. I'll probably skip that part.

[trim kestrel]

Absolutely.

[rich belfry]

Im also planning to post a drive link to the script when done in here so people can take a look if they want and let me know if I have any glaring holes

you were very helpful with fixing several small details in the map tool tutorial. it was much appreciated.

Im going to visit family soon. so this video isnt going to be done for like another 3 weeks or so. but I want to get the script done this weekend

[trim kestrel]

Ok. No promises I'll be up to it today, particularly. Been struggling.

oh, ok.

I'll probably have updated the guide by then.

Christmas time, eh?

[rich belfry]

yep

I work at a university so I have 2 weeks off during the holiday. But Im visiting family so I dont expect I'll have much time to do anything. plus my editing equipment is on a desktop...thats not coming with me

[trim kestrel]

Heh. Yeah. The creative process ain't exactly that portable, for us game content creators. 😅

[spark kettle]

I was told to ask here. That you might have the answer I am looking for. How many food recipes are there total. I got as a quick adding 1 extra of everything then rounding up 60x60 Wich would be 3,600.

[raven owl]

If I did my permutations correctly, it's 3192 without the tiered up food, which would then become 6384 unique recipes in total. Will double check my math when I'm not sick

[floral tendon]

damn drop position rounding 💀

[hoary osprey]

67 different ingredient right now (including golden plants and food giving perm hp, excluding prenerf ones) thus 4489 recipes in total

Check the cheat sheet by @trim kestrel for the ingredient list #📷-ck-media message

[trim kestrel]

How sure are you that there's 67 total ingredients?

I counted 57 when I updated my guide for 0.5 content: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2797638499

Which would make 3306 unique dishes. Closer to what @spark kettle was estimating.

[hoary osprey]

Yes 57, sorry for miscount

[trim kestrel]

Phew. Thanks. I didn't make a mistake for once! 😅

[rich belfry]

and here I thought I was fancy for having learned 75 recipes. LOL I havent even started messing with cooking apparently

[spark kettle]

I have 208 learned just from mixing everything with everything.

[long dagger]

oops

theyve been let loose...

[trim kestrel]

Oh, you and your fps in mortal peril there, son! 😬😅

[trim kestrel]

I think I barely have 100 myself... 😅

And that's despite doing some combinatorial testing, to elucidate the old rarity system.

[long dagger]

took me 20 minutes to kill them all

i was making some art then i see a random scholar walking by and that got me thinking then i remembered the lil mob farm i made to get sentries for the turret build

only got a single scholar figurine from all that

[floral tendon]

really, i'm swimming in scholar figs

they feel pretty common

max turret sight range is what, 10 tiles?

[long dagger]

ye

[floral tendon]

yknow i think they patched it so that galaxite turret shots don't (always) hit yourself now

i have still been hit by them, but interestingly i've only been hit by the ones that passed through walls

[trim kestrel]

Heh. I see. Maybe a quick change that wasn't fully tested, or just as likely an unexpected change in behaviour... 🤷

[real cliff]

what stats does +50.4% damage effect? Just melee and ranged?

[trim kestrel]

Are you asking if it will affect explosive damage, basically? And punching, is that separate?

What source is that buff from? Cooked food?

[real cliff]

the source is cooked food 👍 Tornis Kingfish Damage (all types)

does it affect explosive damage and stuff?

[primal rapids]

I hate "all damage" buffs in games, because they very rarely mean all damage 😁

[trim kestrel]

Give it a test and let us know. 🙂

[real cliff]

will do! (soon) - currently working on skills affecting stats of foods for the tool:

was also planning on nit-picking the cooked food icon system and seeing if I can create the proper icon for each recipe

[trim kestrel]

Cool. Will your tool have a non-blinding mode (sorry 😖 😅 ). Or was it a web site (which I have Dark Reader for).

[real cliff]

AHAHAHA

yep its a website

I've left a default looking UI for now to work on the features

but I do plan on making a proper user experience

[real cliff]

one which will either be darkmode only or have an option xD

[floral tendon]

LOL

WHY

WHY THERE????

[trim kestrel]

Did they teleport off multiple plinths all down to the left one?

(Why use scholars?)

[floral tendon]

yeah

it's easier to see scholars

so i can know when the game screwed me

(also they look cool)

[long dagger]

U could just use lit floors to always c the mobs

[floral tendon]

that's sort of true but the glow is visible from several tiles away

in any case the caveling tribal teleport or whatever is not gonna work so i just switched back to slimes

now i need to figure out how to keep the cavelings from seeing them through the turrets...

could move the first one farther back but I've got a space constraint

[long dagger]

they shouldn't c thru turrets but just like walls if they run into it then the mobs on the other side will attack once

u could make a gap between the turrets or have 2 layers or turrets

[floral tendon]

again, shouldn't is the operative word

but clearly they do

[fallow hawk]

Oh my. I haven't seen that fish I don't think. From the oasis I'm guessing.

[floral tendon]

i have a wall in front of the first slime and they still see through it six tiles away

and I've already tried two layers

obviously things will work fine while standing in front of it but the issue is the off screen behavior

[long dagger]

ig the only solution besides using the same mob type so they wouldnt fight would just be making a wide enough gap

[floral tendon]

yeah I'm trying to see if i can make enough space

[real cliff]

ngl Idek

I don't do like... any fishing

[fallow hawk]

Same I have my friends fish for me.

[fallow hawk]

What I want to know is does that stack with other specific damage buffs.

[trim kestrel]

Could it be that the projectiles that pass through walls were about to hit a mob right as the mob died, so became glitched. Like they had their collision detection flipped off...

I'm seeing occasional assassin projectiles pass through various walls of my mob farm and occasional break objects behind the walls. Trying to figure out if there's more of a pattern than just random projectile entities being faulty from creation.

[floral tendon]

sounds plausible really

[pseudo terrace]

I've had the vendor bed be destroyed in your layout

[floral tendon]

that would be so blessed 😩

really tired of chests exploding because of accidentally interacting with a wire crossing under a floor tile 🙃

[floral tendon]

well it's not that

i'm pretty confident this has to do with performance

playing on my laptop rn so framerate is low compared to my desktop, and a lot of these shots are passing through walls

i'm very sure it has to do with the physics/collision check intervals in unity

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. Quite probable.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. I've now had that a couple of times (and the robot arms and a generator, too).

I've been reworking my farm to use assassins and felt like their projectiles might be more prone to this than Scholar's.

[trim kestrel]

Could you upload that save in a bug report with the gif, if you haven't yet? If it's that frequent, it might be a good reproduction case for the devs. 🙂

[crimson cloak]

is there a way to place ore ( of all varieties ) on one conveyor and it then sort them according to which smelter they can use further down the line?

[trim kestrel]

The different smelters kind of act a filters, since they only accept the kinds they can process... And that's about it, for now. 🤷

[crimson cloak]

figured out a way to sort them by passing them through a series of arms to each smelter, works like a champ!

[long dagger]

How far do enemy projectiles fly for? I'd assume it's 150 tiles like turret and player projectiles but it doesn't seem like it, atleast not when there's a bunch on the screen from enemies

When I had over 100 scholars in the small room next to my base that's within 100ish tiles, my chests weren't destroyed

[floral tendon]

not super far

i'd say less than 50 tiles

[trim kestrel]

I've seen hunter bullets disappear at 200 tiles, previously.

It might be time of flight. Because they're fast they get further.

But I could also imagine them disappearing sooner when there's lots. Particularly if the same mobs fire another volley... 🤔

[trim kestrel]

Did you account for objects being unloaded beyond about 100 tiles from player?

So even if projectiles traveled further, there might be no colliders to hit at the time.

[long dagger]

both make sense

[floral tendon]

yeah duration makes sense

[floral tendon]

TIL butterflies fight crabs!

spawn of goddamn satan

[trim kestrel]

Oh. That's an interesting turn... So my graphic is inaccurate... And that's akward to show clearly. 🤔

[floral tendon]

yeah...

it doesn't seem like lava slimes fight crabs

these damn butterflies causing problems 🤪

[trim kestrel]

I wonder about butterfies and shroomen. Less important.

Butterflies vs crabs hasn't been an issue in my updated farm, so far.

[floral tendon]

well i forgot to clip the video but if i see it again i'll show it

it explains why one of my arms keeps randomly breaking

[trim kestrel]

Not mob projectiles going through walls, like with my farm?

[floral tendon]

nope

well

i guess it's not completely unlikely

clipped a bit late

[long dagger]

Natural spawn rates r slow, galaxite ore from scarabs have low drop rates, I already cleared out the area for the mob farm but do I bother finishing it? It won't have any meaningful usage since I basically got 2 double chests worth of galaxite from boulders and mob farming wouldn't get anywhere near that

[trim kestrel]

Bomb scarab test farm, for academic reasons and and bragging rights. Prove one can be made that's robust.

[long dagger]

Did I just hear bragging rights?

🕶️

Rates r prob gonna be extremely terrible and I wouldn't be surprised if it fails

I got an idea for a fail safe system

[long dagger]

can someone do some testing with snow ground? check if it spawns anything at all, bugs included

cause if it doesn't, wouldn't it be the best building ground for having no bugs? assuming that bridges can still spawn fireflies

[long dagger]

finally finished my lil art piece so I could start working on it slowly

[glad widget]

i made a mob grid sized~ snow ground with snow wall surround on snow ground. only been a few mins so far. had to evict preexisting glow bugs, but yet to see anything in side.

would have to replicate and observe in other biomes to be sure. this one is dirt/starter biome.

[long dagger]

i dont think bugs r biome specific besides fireflies, it's prob just based off the floor tile/void

/water

well either way its looking promising for nice builds, just seems a hassle to get stacks of snow ground for general use on a world

[glad widget]

i placed the two torches to see if they would effect the "snow" guessing no. would have been funny to watch it melt through.

[glad widget]

hour 20 later, nothing in the snow area

[long dagger]

the wiring will prob be a pain for me to make, gonna need timing. messed up and I gotta rebuild the turret section

[floral tendon]

is that for scarabs

[long dagger]

ye, figuring out the wiring for it to put it to the test

been working slowly on it

[trim kestrel]

I've been meaning to work in making a linear counter, like for sequentially flashing lights. So that one could attach an arbitrary clock input to step through activating turrets in sequence. So their projectiles will stack and hut simultaneously.

[trim kestrel]

Ah, good to know. (You weren't stood in the midle the whole time, right?)

So it's specifically enabled for worms to spawn on stone (in the dirt biome). I thought that a bit odd.

They even seem to spawn on tiles fully blocked by objects.

[crimson cloak]

finally got it to sort itself 😄 Merry Christmas Explorers ❤️

[long dagger]

the wiring for mine will be odd but will prob have a similar idea. 1 lever to keep all but front turrets that r connected the the doors to be on the whole time, then a timer to cycle between opening the doors to let them in then closing and opening the other doors. it sounds much simpler typing it so idk how i haven't finished it yet but ima be adding some extra wires to be able to turn it off quickly in case of an accident

[glad widget]

i was, can check it in an hour or two once logged in and not be in there during that time.

[glad widget]

about an hour later glowbug inside snow fort

[long dagger]

can they fly through walls?

it may have came from outside

[glad widget]

i stayed nearish, but not at the site, didnt tele away or go out of the 200 tile range

the walls werent down

[floral tendon]

i think floor tiles stop fireflies from spawning...

at least, in my mob farm only the areas i can't use floor tiles have fireflies

[glad widget]

two worms in there right now. ~ 2h mark

[long dagger]

bummer

[glad widget]

eh, at least theres observational data now

[floral tendon]

i wish floor tiles stopped bugs tho...

but at least those aren't nearly as annoying since they fixed them

[glad widget]

i would have liked to know bug catching has no use when i first made a net and collected a couple hundred. Thought theyd be used for paint bait or potions without actually verifying.

[floral tendon]

damn 😔

[glad widget]

i did use glow bugs on my early mushroom farms for passive lighting

[trim kestrel]

That's pretty smart.

And I imagine there must be future uses for bugs.

[floral tendon]

and blue slime 🙃

[trim kestrel]

I guess the exclusion radius for bugs must be bigger than mobs. Because it looks to me like a significant amount of space, at the corners would have been outside of that 6 tile circle. So would have expected to see something within that time.

[hoary osprey]

I have tried to use glow bugs to light up the circuit of my competition submission, but after the christmas update, the game will remove those bug after some times if they are too crowded... even I am placing the bug manually.

[pliant scarab]

This is quite an interesting case. Was wondering if 3 roots around 1 drill would be able to produce faster wood branches than just one 🤔

[trim kestrel]

And what did you see? 🙂

[pliant scarab]

oh i forgot, that's a question hahah i worded it wrong

my question is that, if 3 roots around 1 drill produced faster wood branches than just 1 root

that's someone else's set up

[trim kestrel]

Oh. I think that should work. As in, they shouldn't block each other.

But it's not very optimal, in a lot of ways.

[long dagger]

Didn't we do testing with wood growth from roots like that

Wood won't grow if it'll connect to another root

Actually I'm not so sure, I think there was a design with 2 roots on the side that still worked

[long dagger]

o i think it was wood can connect to other roots but not with wood

[pliant scarab]

@crisp bone

these should give you a general idea

[trim kestrel]

Yes. I think it's that. Wood can grow adjacent to stumps but not connect to other wood networks.

Updated my spawn chance graphs (slowly reworking my guide 😮‍💨 ).

[floral tendon]

good luck

praying that whole thing doesn't get blown up off screen

[long dagger]

main wiring should work, if anything, its the timing of the turrets that may need to be adjusted to burst them in sync but that will be an issue if it overkills one while theres more in the chamber

[floral tendon]

yeah... my main concern would be the offscreen behavior of turrets

because i've noticed weird things like stray projectiles from turrets that should be off

if they weren't flight pathing we could use slime tentacles to stun 😔

[long dagger]

well there's an old issue yet to be fixed

6 core sentries despawned on me

https://tenor.com/view/dramatic-cry-will-ferrell-gif-13298637

and idk what happened here

[floral tendon]

😔

you are very brave

in my testing, any caveling related mob has been very unreliable

[long dagger]

there shouldn't have been enough turrets to dmg them in the first place since they're blocked off

[floral tendon]

you got scholars nearby yeah?

[long dagger]

ye

[floral tendon]

probably related somehow... maybe that sentry saw the scarab through the turrets

new farm layout 😄

[floral tendon]

👻

[long dagger]

this some bs

[floral tendon]

yeah man just use slimes

caveling tribe is a headache

[long dagger]

another 3 despawned on me and that segment needs to be cleared out

[floral tendon]

they all tp'd to that tile rght

[long dagger]

i dont think so

they got some extra friends from somewhere

[floral tendon]

from the group you have nearby?

these

[long dagger]

hmmm

those prob did despawn too ig

dunno when

this sucks

[floral tendon]

yeah i don't know what causes that

it kept happening to me even though my tribes were isolated

i can only think that the turret shots trigger the "call for help" mechanic

eventually i just switched back to slimes and spaced out my first one far enough that the cavelings stopped trying to fight them through the turrets

[long dagger]

in my finished mob farm they arent despawning and its killing all caveling mob tribes besides mold

they used to despawn while building it

[floral tendon]

not killing anything nearby are you?

[long dagger]

killing the extra scholars by hand on this farm

as for the already built one i think i killed some by hand after trapping them all

[floral tendon]

probably it

it seemed to me like it was happening even though i hadn't killed anything, but if it's not the turrets then it's more likely that i hadn't been paying attention and killed some

[long dagger]

wondering if saving after trapping each one will do the trick since they should stay deactivated

[floral tendon]

not sure... it's way too easy to accidentally kill something nearby imo

the range seems really big

[pliant scarab]

i've fixed my issue about this

oh nvm that's a setup you needed for the turrets

[long dagger]

im just torturing myself

2 then another 5 despawned on me

that should be 15 total if im not mistaken

https://tenor.com/view/گریه-ناراحت-غم-gerye-narahat-gif-23378340

[floral tendon]

wow

they can blow up bridges?

[long dagger]

scarabs, ye

replaced the chamber with snow ground cause of it

despite them not being able to blow up maze walls, they can still destroy tiles beneath it like wires

[floral tendon]

yeah, sucks that there's no floor strength 😞

wouldn't even matter if there was, since stuff hits circuits through floor tiles anyway..

[long dagger]

prison break

[floral tendon]

do you know if the rates for sea tentacles are different for bridge adjacent vs ground adjacent?

[long dagger]

managed to get a stack of 1k of an item after wanting it for some time

shift clicked it into a chest and it broke into a stack of 999 and 1

short lived

[long dagger]

it randomly teleported in there, i didnt notice a nearby sentry going missing

there was 2 walls between my character and the sentry before i took the ss

[trim kestrel]

Huh... Dud you just kill a sentry by removing a ground tile?

[long dagger]

idk if kill is the right word

dude just disappeared on me

[trim kestrel]

Bridge adjacent is the same as open water. So extremely low odds. Bridges are a good way of spawn blocking the coasts off Sunken Sea.

[long dagger]

forgot i had it recorded

[trim kestrel]

Right. But I see an anchient gemstone drop there, right?

So guessed it wasn't oike the instances I've seen of e.g. Brutes attacking at point blank (while I stand still) and instantly getting teleported away.

[trim kestrel]

Heh. Who needs fireworks? 😅

[long dagger]

i don't see a gemstone drop, idk if I'm going blind or u mistook something for it

[long dagger]

my laptops cpu so it can take a break

also heres some other fireworks

[trim kestrel]

I guess I was hallucinating from watching on phone. Can't see it now. Just ground tile pickup.

So probably the same bug. Maybe report that, I thought it maybe should have been fixed....

[long dagger]

theres many things yet to be fixed 😅

waiting for about 15 more core sentries to test the kill chamber on scarabs

had 30+ teleport/despawn on me

[trim kestrel]

Oh my! So you succeeded in farming up quite a lot of Scarabs, eh?! 👀😆

How big an area was that, for how longm

[long dagger]

that was about 75% of the right half of my farm

[trim kestrel]

Which is... Full spawn range radius? (Knowing you. 😉) How long?

[long dagger]

was on the game for like 7ish hours at the time but i didnt clear the whole area since ive built it. i was clearing all nearby spawns tho

smaller portion on left side

kinda forgot how far out it goes

might be a full 300-320 tiles wide

[trim kestrel]

Players can dodge explosive damage, right...? 🤔

[long dagger]

i think so

let the mob chunks speak for itself

ik i made it a lil too big but o well

[long dagger]

Gotta spend time with family, I'll be back with it hopefully built by the end of the day or by tomorrow

https://tenor.com/view/christmas-tree-sparkle-star-gif-24275776

[trim kestrel]

Ok. Added a note about butterflies (after confirming that they attack crabs and sea tentacles, but not shroomen, go figure).

[long dagger]

It may be an issue if more than 1 scarab gets in, may change it to 1 door for each side and shorten the timer for it but so far it looks good

[trim kestrel]

That looks very cool! There's something's ng very sci-fi about it... With the slow timing and the effortless annihilating, you get a sense of it being a really huge machine. Maybe Star Wars, or something feel.

[floral tendon]

aww ambush omoroth tentacles despawn :(

[trim kestrel]

Hoping to make a build around one? Or try using it for mob farming? 🤔

How quick did it disappear? As soon as you left off-screen?

[floral tendon]

i just thought they were cool

idk i died and they were gone when i came back

[floral tendon]

hmmmmm

i think bomb scarabs don't blow up if they're not over ground...

oh nvm

unlucky

[trim kestrel]

Toss 'em into the void! 😅

[floral tendon]

i wish... got hopeful

[trim kestrel]

I mean, if they explode in the void, with nothing around them, then it's not a problem.... 😅 But does that give no drops? Is that confirmed or just a suspicion?

[floral tendon]

well they'll still blow up any collection method

so it's no difference

i'm sure it gives drops, i just tested until i could confirm whether they explode over gaps or not

[long dagger]

Pretty sure they don't drop anything if they explode

[trim kestrel]

Did you try that with a whole batch of them? Just exploding. Your gifs were a mix of killing, too, I think, so hard to tell from just looking.

[long dagger]

Look at the batch that exploded on the left, not a single drop

And the ones that spawn from the ground trembling don't drop anything even if killed

[floral tendon]

oh i misunderstood, i thought the question was whether they drop at all over void

[long dagger]

selling the planks from my wood farm after all this time

all my coins r on this belt, it doesn't render them all and any extra stack of any item in my inventory stops showing its stack number. belts have a limit of amount of items that can be on it and that belt line far surpassed it

accidentally missed 9 chests of coins

52 double chests of coins, would be nice if they rework coins in a different way

[lilac gale]

They did a survey about them changing them recently

It's probably still active

[long dagger]

ye, hence y i said "rework coins in a different way." they kinda ruined parts of the game, boulders put mob farms to shame, coins r too easily obtainable. i don't like their current idea on how they want coins to be

[lilac gale]

I didn't either, the concept felt lackluster and sort of a cheap lazy fix.

[gusty epoch]

I feel like coins are 99% useless, I’ve barely got any lol

[floral tendon]

yeah i think that's my problem, they're not that useful

best thing is buying slime idols

and those are time gated

tbh I'd like if they did the opposite of what they suggested and made more things convertible to coins

but gave them a better variety of uses

and obviously do something about the storage issue

[long dagger]

balance prices for selling, increase coin stack size, let us buy items quicker from npcs

[long dagger]

max turrets cant even handle 2 scarabs 😩

[trim kestrel]

You had an explosion when 2 got in together then?

I think it might need carefully synchronised projectile stacking. Then could also fire just enough turrets together to guarantee 1 kill, without doing enough damage to a second scarab... 🤔 Very complex setup. Heh.

[long dagger]

gets a bit more complex trying to time it with the door

one scarab died but the other exploded

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. I'm thinking of complex electronics.

[long dagger]

id prob have to delay the doors some more to get the shots from the back rdy

[long dagger]

so it definitely cant handle 2 for the first cycle cause the shots from the back haven't arrived yet, it handled a batch of 2 and 3 afterwards then exploded on 2

i may just try timing the projectiles then since theres too big of a delay between shots

if timed perfectly it should handle 3 just fine

almost 4

[floral tendon]

relying on such specific timing seems kind of dodgy...

i wouldn't trust the game 😂

have you considered using tentacles to stun?

[long dagger]

that would be rough too, getting it to spawn in the right spot and hope it actually attacks on time but if more than 1 scarab gets in then the other could fly into the tentacle and explode there

i could try using 2 tentacles but then a 3rd scarab could ruin it. i adjusted the doors to barely be on for a second and 3 scarabs managed to get in

if anything i may have to adjust the kill chambers to literally be a 1 by 1 so excessive amounts won't get in even when the door timer is so short

if thats the closest it can get then i may be screwed from the door timing. there will be close to 28 shots trailing about that far apart from each other so with some bad door timing it could cut off enough projectiles to just dmg a scarab to get it to explode

[long dagger]

issue after issue, this is fun

initial shots were that close to each other then after half a min or so

they start spreading apart

i could toggle them on and off to keep them in sync, it'll just be time consuming and im taking a short break from it

[trim kestrel]

I think the simplest bet may be an overwhelming amount of Assassin firepower (like, try to cram 30 of them in a small space with tight sightlines on the bomb scarab's entrance.

It's a shame we can't have adjacent doors on different timings, to try to ensure a split down to just one mob...

Although maybe pulsing them together could work anyway...?

[long dagger]

Pusling them together?

I was thinking about having 2 layers of doors side by side, 1st door opens for a split second (I think only one would fit but let's say it can be 2 or 3). Have the next door open with 2 cycles to empty out the ones in the small room

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, the idea would be to create a space between the doors where only 1 nob could possibly fit.

Then opening and closing them quick enough that only the closer mib can get through. But then that might prevent any from getting through, ever. Tricky.

[long dagger]

There's a prob with the chamber tho, doesn't help that belts can't be placed under the door. If it's just 1 mob in the chamber then the initial door can be backlogged if the single mob doesn't move on past the 2nd door

Talking about having 2 doors to hold off mobs from the kill chamber

[hoary osprey]

You should be able to make your control signal from one side to barely reach one of the door to make different timing of opening / closing of the door

[trim kestrel]

Ah! True. Interesting work around. 🙂👍

Maybe doors (and some other devices) would be better to not transmit power, though?

[hoary osprey]

Door should only transmit power on two ways but not four ways to be make sense

Or it only transmit power on four ways only when closed

[trim kestrel]

Oic. Even more nuanced. 🙂

Of course, the side tiles have to be walls, so can't be another device anyway.

Erm, changing conductivity with opening state would be too confusing, I think.

[hoary osprey]

Just so that you can open it with a single pressure plate

[trim kestrel]

Oic. I guess I was assuming one way connection. In that it could receive power from any adjacent powered tile, but wouldn't transmit it.

Similarly, I'd like electricity sticks to not conduct, too (just influence adjacent). And I think there's a good case for light bulbs, too.

Maybe all devices should need wire under them to conduct/transmit power..?

[long dagger]

That'd be nice but a bit tedious for regular building placing wires for things like Boulder mining

Doors suck, they should have an electronic that can be placed, walked over like a regular tile, once powered it acts like a wall. Basically raising a wall from the ground

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, you'd just have to place wire under your drills too, in that case. But maybe they shouldn't be include in such hypothetical changes. 🤔 🤷

[trim kestrel]

So, still just one tile big, with the same connectivity issues? But closing vertically?

[long dagger]

The game should have options in the inventory to toggle, allow breaking player structures in one hit, fixed direction for belt placement, hoe options: till on/off, destroy tiles on/off. Stuff like that basically

[long dagger]

Same connectivity issues?

I think an electronic like that would help tho, going from a regular ground tile into a wall. Main benefit is that no walls will be needed for it to connect to like a door

[trim kestrel]

So your entire wall can be a door?! 😮

[long dagger]

Ye

Would be very useful for certain builds and u wouldn't have to depend on some dumb doors hanging on 2 walls

Just have a smart door that simply turns itself into a wall, problem solved

[floral tendon]

i honestly do think wires should be required to conduct

and you place components on top of wire

it would make builds so much neater

honestly the entire system needs a lot of work but it doesn't seem to be a priority for them so i stopped asking for it 😂

[long dagger]

It's a wanky sandbox game, hope they refine it well 😅

[floral tendon]

yeah me too

i really wanna see this game succeed

[long dagger]

They rly need to rebalance things heavily but I don't c that happening

A few big ones would be reduced enemy dmg and perhaps adjust hp to counter the change, it may bring some issues but it sounds better than currently running into the desert without the perm hp foods and dying in 3 or less hits. Nerf boulders hard, forgot what else I was gonna say... hopefully they just add something to work towards that puts the bars to good use

[floral tendon]

i'd rather they give more to use resources than nerf resources

[long dagger]

Mob farms r basically meaningless unless if u want some oddly specific drops which u still won't need much

[floral tendon]

i mean ofc

but that's because there's not a lot to do

i don't believe mob farms should be better than mining boulders for getting ore

[long dagger]

Boulders r very easy to find. Especially for the amount they give

Only downside is the time it takes to drill but if u exclude that, that's basically 2 stacks of ore in azeos wilderness in under 2 minutes of exploring

Lil too op if u ask me

[floral tendon]

idk i think it's fine

[raven owl]

taking away something we already had will not feel good. look at any mechanic taken away in any game and look at the average community reaction to it

[floral tendon]

if i were to change anything personally, i'd make it slower tbh

well

since the game isn't technically released, i think it's fair game to remove mechanics

[raven owl]

let's go back to old boulder worldgen then and ask the community what they think that is now playing that wasn't in march

[long dagger]

^
Sure the community will be upset but if a change is needed to help the game then it should be done.

[floral tendon]

it's early access for a reason lol

[raven owl]

I don't disagree, but nerfing stuff that only affects late game (coins) without a good alternative solution is not smart whatsoever

[floral tendon]

well.... the idea is to find a solution lmao

so obviously..

[long dagger]

Coins don't have that good of a use and I've sold anything else besides ore to get stacks of them

[floral tendon]

yeah

honestly it'd be cool if you could do stuff like trade walls for ground and vice versa using coins

or some other "dust" resource

[long dagger]

Plus the devs have a survey out for reworking coins, even tho it's not a good rework

[raven owl]

I won't deny stuff needs to be balanced overall, but taking away resources is the last thing you should do. that's more what I'm trying to hit home with

Fortnite removing siphon for example when collecting materials to build all those years ago drove a lot of their community out for some time

[trim kestrel]

The devs keep slowly making refinements to wiring. Adding bits and pieces. Yeah, there's a heck of a lot of other (more core) content to add, though. And I'll bet wiring code is time consuming...

But I suspect they'll listen to well thought out feedback on that.

[long dagger]

I don't c a harm from taking potential resources in the future, plus new players wouldn't be affected that much. Once u finish drilling a few boulders, the rest of the ore/bars end up sitting in multiple chests never getting used besides niche cases for large unnecessary builds

[raven owl]

add don't subtract

[long dagger]

I did say that's an option but I think it's still excessive

Nearly 2 stacks for a single Boulder

Even the expensive go carts look cheap with the bars

Just the other resources from mobs hit hard

For a game that makes u travel a lot to find special structures, ur gonna be running into a ton of boulders which you'll never need currently. They'd have to bring a big update to put all those bars to good use which ig I would prefer over a big nerf but who knows what will happen

[trim kestrel]

Just add ammo based on ore. Easy resource sink. 😅

[floral tendon]

lol

that wouldn't be too bad actually

i'd like that

but like, for some sort of new weapon, not just regular stuff

[trim kestrel]

Sure, sure. Maybe a technomancer for a non-standard spin on magic/mage class... 🤷

[floral tendon]

i'd like to see more building mats personally

[trim kestrel]

Throw drill bits at 'em or something. 😅

[floral tendon]

still no octarine walls....

[trim kestrel]

Or iron or gold or tin or copper walls...

[long dagger]

Make the current galaxite turrets consume ore as ammo

[floral tendon]

naw that'd be dumb lol

maybe if they make a much stronger turret

[long dagger]

ik, I'd be the last one for it cause of my builds

Idk about stronger turrets, there would have to be limits on it atleast. Can't imagine someone going through the trouble of making a turret stack with them and repeatedly refilling them

[floral tendon]

yeah lmao

defeats the purpose

[raven owl]

easy way to sink bars into stuff is revamping weapons to be usable not just at specific progression levels

let me upgrade these things up to par with the strongest stuff currently

[long dagger]

Would be nice if there was actual upgrades for the game to sink tons of mats in

Upgrading various stats for a go cart

And for boats

[lilac gale]

An upgrade station would be a nice sink

[warped parcel]

A consumable accessory could be a good thing to spend money on

[long dagger]

Reforging equipment

[real void]

I forget, does covering desert sand with tiles prevent bug spawning?

[trim kestrel]

It should do, I think. (Except for wire, conveyor and traps.)

But I'm not sure about the ambush type bomb scarab spawning, which will land right on top of players and inside of furniture objects.

[glad widget]

Im scared to try it on my boulder ops so im still digging out the ground and using bridges for now.

[long dagger]

ur scared that scarabs would blow up the drills for ur boulders? am i reading that right?

u could just wall it off and itll be safe even if some spawn in, it'll only get destroyed if other mobs get in there with the scarabs

[glad widget]

ive been digging it up bridging and walling them.

[long dagger]

its better to have the shots from the back fired first for better timing but the wiring goes too far from the player that it doesn't take effect and when i do run down after powering it, it goes off sync

the wiring design works nicely and i wanna keep it as is but id have to cut down on turrets for the wiring to render which will be painful

[winged vault]

what's all this aiming at?

boss?

[long dagger]

for a terrible mob farm

[winged vault]

oh no

[long dagger]

hence the timing of the turrets

[winged vault]

i'm guessing they are getting tapped and then one blows up and destroys the tiles causing a break?

[long dagger]

having the turrets on full time works for a single scarab, sometimes for 2 and 3 but it still blows up once in a while on 2

[winged vault]

yeah that's crazy stressin

[long dagger]

i have the doors on a short timer, even tho its on for such a short time period, up to 3 managed to squeeze in

[winged vault]

can you setup turret lines on 3 sides? or would that be overkill?

[long dagger]

i already did it on 2

making a 3rd on the side will cause a bit of an issue trying to get the scarabs around the builds into the chamber

[primal rapids]

is the circuitry for one side loaded if you stand in the middle of that side? could start each side separately from the middle of both if that's the case

[long dagger]

theres another issue that i mentioned last time

trying to line up the turret shots

if its on for a minute or longer, the turrets start getting off sync too much so they have to be on an on off cycle

[primal rapids]

oof

[winged vault]

and that has to be manually toggled by the player?

[long dagger]

theres basic wiring issues that can be worked around but when the game gets in the way from it working as intended it becomes a pain in the ass

[long dagger]

i can have the turrets on an on off loop

im just running into many issues preventing it from working

i could leave the turrets on full time but then id have to rework the chamber to make sure its always limited to a single scarab but i dont think that's possible

it handles a single scarab just fine without timing

[primal rapids]

by the way, not exactly related to this, but wouldn't it be possible to add one more pair of turrets to the current "state of the art" design?

[winged vault]

you'd think they'd start spawning faster than you're able to kill

[long dagger]

natural spawns r slow but it may be the case if the wiring is heavily delays for each kill cycle

[long dagger]

a turret on the front not aiming at a baiting golem but at the actual target?

ive had it like that since the start for all my builds

[primal rapids]

I'll have to draw what I mean

[long dagger]

unless if u mean adding them to the sides but that may cause issues for killing scarabs

[primal rapids]

so the current set up is like this, right? green = turrets pointing up, red = bait, black = pit

[long dagger]

seems accurate

[primal rapids]

so what prevents this, or going even further with 3 pairs

[long dagger]

well each segment is 1 tile longer than intended on the first image

[winged vault]

turrets block other turrets vision i thought

[long dagger]

they do

[primal rapids]

ah, right

[long dagger]

they block them like a regular wall would

[winged vault]

what about the sentry - turret turret - sentry build?

[long dagger]

huh?

[winged vault]

same shot count, but tighter spread?

[long dagger]

o side to side

[winged vault]

do you plan on having an identical spawning left side too?

[long dagger]

i had that originally for the scarab build but they could move between the 2 firing lanes. I didnt wanna risk them blocking shots from other scarabs if they moved

ye, just need to place belts on the left side but im tryna get the chamber working flawlessly before i do that

[winged vault]

makes sense

[long dagger]

which may never happen at this point

u could have 4 firing lanes all aiming at the center and have some janky entrance for the mobs

i dont wanna build any more lanes, making them with sentries is the worst cause they tp/despawn frequently

[trim kestrel]

wiring goes too far from the player that it doesn't take effect

Could you explain a bit more about how it's failing please? 🙂 My understanding is that wiring and automation should always work the same everywhere.

(But some have been reporting issues with e.g. bolder mined resources not traveling long distance on conveyors, while other's have it work fine.)

[long dagger]

in the ss i showed, the wiring goes from top left and down along the wall then goes right to power the bottom turret, its supposed to loop up and power the turrets in order with a slight delay to line up the shots

but it doesn't power a single turret when i turn it on from near the center of the farm

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. I guess I'd need to know exactly what wiring devices you are relying upon to pass on the signal... Is it just logic circuits and generators?

[long dagger]

just those the whole way

no delay circuits

a few cross wires after the first turret

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. Pretty sure that's not intended. So it'd be good to figure what the weak link is, and in what circumstance...

Does it never work? When you move to one end, as oppsed to standing in the midle?

[long dagger]

i destroyed the wires but i can still show the original piece that was meant to power the first turret

[long dagger]

all the turrets seem to start working once i get closer

it stops when i get away from it

seems like theres a bug with the lit floors losing its paint

[trim kestrel]

I don't see the lit floor...?

[long dagger]

the purple colored turrets

they're covered

heres how its supposed to look like

so the turrets worked while standing next to it, i didnt even power it off and they stopped once i got far enough

i didnt even power it off and on

[trim kestrel]

Corporate wants you to tell the difference between thsees 2 pictures... 😵‍💫

[long dagger]

then powering it off and on does nothing unless if i get close enough again

can u tell the difference now between the left and right turrets

[trim kestrel]

Not really... Is the left more purply...?

[long dagger]

ye

[trim kestrel]

Oh!... You're saying the wiring's not working because there's no turret projectiles...?

But mobs get unloaded past 105 tiles, so there's nothing for the turrets to shoot at. Isn't it just that?

[long dagger]

😶‍🌫️

brb

[trim kestrel]

The turrets themselves will get unloaded past 105 tiles tiles too, I think. Mobs linger for a second or two.

[long dagger]

damn that sucks

so the wiring seems to work, just the 5 or so turrets i tried powering in the back was still further than 105 tiles from me when i powered it

thats gonna limit my farm even more

damn

[trim kestrel]

Think of it as being more compact... 😅

Yeah, i just checked with my long wiring loop, using generators and logic circuits, and it seems to work fine sending signals over 140 tiles from player (horizontally).

[long dagger]

its already compact in width, i can't let it take the length too 😭

ig i gotta update the steam guide cause of it

[trim kestrel]

OK, so Bomb scarabs have 2k hp (in normal mode). And galaxite turrets do a minimum of 140 damage each. So you'd need 15 (14.3 rounded up) to be sure to kill a single scarab with a perfect stack of projectiles.

So, with a spacing of 6 tiles, that's: 15 * 6 = 90 tiles of gun length. Which is a little tight, but definitely sounds viable to me. 🙂

Could stand a little off-centre, too, for a little more buffer. But would need to shut it off entirely when not standing in the ideal spot.

[long dagger]

1950 hp

and i think turret averages at about 130-140 but thats accurate enough

2 lanes, 200 ish tiles, /5 for the segments but first -5 ish for the chamber, 39 turrets if im not mistaken

enough for 2 scarabs

since it wont be able to handle a third ig, either limit the amount of turrets to about 16 for each lane to ensure a scarab kill and to not over dmg the 3rd scarab if there happens to be one

now which route do i take...

prob limit the turrets to ensure its always within the players distance while i run around on the inside and so it could take care of extra scarabs

i wonder how many can fit in a 1 by 1 if they fly in then r closed off by a door

[trim kestrel]

Why do you want to be able to run around? 🙂

[long dagger]

storage

just about 15 or so tiles for managing storage but its already getting compact af so ifk if ill be able to make a sorter in it

[trim kestrel]

What I'd do, personally, is try to minimise the setup and have a dedicate 1x1 room that the player stands in (on a pressure plate) to enable the machine. As a safety feature. That would open the gun port door and activate the wiring.

Then it would have to be off while moving around. So no risk of forgetting, etc. And it would be a kinda cool mechanism.

[long dagger]

the heck, pretty sure i saw the wiki say its around 115-145 or something

[trim kestrel]

There's no turret pages on teh wikizet yet... (My bad. 😅 )

[long dagger]

id prob have to remake a nice chunk of the wiring to replace the lever with a pressure plate, for the positioning and to power it off for the cycles

[trim kestrel]

Have you measured the travel speed of the turret projectiles yet?

[long dagger]

how would u measure the speed tho, its faster than max movement speed and the fastest go cart

[trim kestrel]

And this is why we don't use the Fandom. 😅

[long dagger]

😣

[trim kestrel]

Really? But that's not a problem. I'd video record and measure distance travelled in exactly 1 second. Or compare to known in-game wiring times. (Although those skip the odd frame, as you've been saying.)

[long dagger]

o right, could compare it with logic circuits ig or am i missing a better way of timing it with in game tics

[trim kestrel]

yeah. logic circuit delay loops.

I mean, how have you stacked up the projectiles atm? What's the delay per stage?

[long dagger]

i think it was 9 delay circuits

i didnt post the update on it here but

for some odd reason, the projectiles originally were spaced slightly which is what i showed

then i made it slightly compact by moving the wires and 4 of the logic circuits closer to the turrets then the projectiles were perfectly lined up

it still used the same amount of logic circuits so it confuses me as to y the turret projectile placements varied off a few pixels between the 2

i tried recreating it but it's the same now, it may have something to do with how the game is run. i got a fair bit of scarabs stacking up rn

[trim kestrel]

Odd. Yeah. I think dropped frames (below 30fps) may drop wiring ticks, too...

And oh, sorry. So your turret spacing is ever 5 tiles. Mz's was 6, I went off that initially.

[long dagger]

im more confused now, im uncertain on it but what if the turrets fire at slightly different times for each shot, kinda like how delay circuits aren't powered on for the same amount of time when used

[trim kestrel]

So, you only need 75 tiles length of gun. A bit more wiggle room.

[long dagger]

fps may be whats causing it but having it on for a while spreads the shots even further

[trim kestrel]

Sure. I've noted desync on 2 turrets just passively on and firing at different times. Although I wasn't able to recreate it.

You'd definitely want to turn the power to the turrets off in between shots. Rather than rely on them staying at the relative timings of their start up.

Shouldn't take barely any extra wiring, though.

[long dagger]

ye thats what i decided on doing but didnt finish cause of the mob rendering issue

[trim kestrel]

If using captive slimes, did it cause a problem to put conveyor under them to try to hold them more central? Did they end up in the void, when leaving and returning?

Or was there no point anyway, because it didn't make it any more reliable at a shorter spacing?

[long dagger]

pretty sure the mobs acted as if the conveyor didnt exist when it was pushing into a void

[trim kestrel]

In both axis? (Cos they hold them centrally too.)

[long dagger]

🤷‍♂️

dont rly remember

[floral tendon]

i have mine using two conveyors pointing to the center along the firing axis

the cross axis didn't work well because they would block too many shots due to being allowed to overlap the next tiles too much

the two belts works much much much better than no belts

still doesn't 100% prevent them from teleporting out, but it very rarely happened now

[trim kestrel]

Could i have reliable spacing of 5 tiles instead of 6 (here) with slimes like this?

[long dagger]

that should work, if not then move the turrets over to the right one tile

[floral tendon]

works for me, though "reliable" is subjective

[trim kestrel]

as in, never miss a firing.

[floral tendon]

never, probably not no

[long dagger]

havent used it with slimes much so idk if itll be reliable as well

[floral tendon]

it will be good enough

not perfect

but i don't think perfect is feasible since i don't think using a single tile is stable

[trim kestrel]

I kinda want perfect, for projectiles stacking, to be used with scarabs. a spacing of 6 seems fully stable to me. So I'd go foro that, if there's a difference.

Projectile speed appears to be 15 to 15.5 tiles per second.

Whereas minecarts where 14 tiles/s, I think. And running can go faster than that.

So that should be 1 tile 0.5 tiles per tick... Let's see if that ties up for me...

[trim kestrel]

Yes. That seems to work. 12 logic circuits delay gives (visually) precise projectile stacking.

So, the way to make that without thinking too much is to have a switchback of 12 circuits between each turret. But I wanna try using a linear counter to reduce the number of gates when scaling up...

... And at this point do you think we should be talking #⚡-circuitry about this...? 🫤

[long dagger]

this is more like our personal channel at this point where we can ramble on about stuff

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. The ivory tower crew. I guess.

But I'd been more justifying using it still because a lot of stuff we talk about, like mob farming, doesn't have any "circuits" in it.

Do you think players would generally consider circuit-free mob farms are something that makes sense to talk about in circuitry...?

[long dagger]

its better fit in that channel than anywhere else

plus they likely wouldn't make a new channel just for that

[trim kestrel]

Would it be a lot clearer to rename it something like #⚡-circuitry-and-automation, though?

[long dagger]

sounds good but replace and with &

cause it may be too long of a channel name

[trim kestrel]

#💡 circuitry-&-automation

[long dagger]

well...

& cant be put in channel names

[long dagger]

aaand there's this

[trim kestrel]

why start with a "-"

[long dagger]

ig as long as auto is visible

i copied and pasted ur msg, i think discord automatically did that since it removes certain symbols

prob replaced the space with it

• cant be inserted

[trim kestrel]

Oh right. I kinda wondered why Bridie/team started naming all channels with a - though, too... 🤔

[trim kestrel]

I continued posting about this over there: #⚡-circuitry message

[floral tendon]

well

i learned something today

if you fill an area with enough bullets, nothing will spawn anyway 🙃

[trim kestrel]

Oh, really?! You think you reached some kind of entity limit?

How many turrets, or such, did you have?

[floral tendon]

tbh it wasn't that many

so i'm sort of doubtful that was really the reason

maybe bout a hundred turrets

it just didn't really seem like i was coming back to any drops from that area after leaving the turrets constantly firing

[warped parcel]

is there any way to make the caveling brutes not destroy the conveyor belts in farms?

[long dagger]

dont group them up with anything that'll they'll wanna attack

[warped parcel]

don't they try to hit turrets?

[long dagger]

i don't think so but u could always space it a few tiles away without issue

[trim kestrel]

Pew-pepepepepeeew!

[long dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/i-started-blasting-so-anyway-i-started-blasting-danny-devito-always-sunny-in-philadelphia-blasting-gif-24425727

[long dagger]

9 logic circuits doesn't line it up perfectly, may have to cycle between 9 and 10 after every one or 2 turrets to clump it up some more

[long dagger]

or just flat out use 10 logic circuits, it lines up the shots, dunno how i didnt notice that earlier. is it rly affected by the fps cause the shots were lining up fine before with 9 circuits

[trim kestrel]

I dunno for sure if fps is a direct tie in. Maybe it's an indicator...

But the game doesn't have a consistent 30 ticks per second, that much I've seen and demonstrated.

[floral tendon]

there is a lot that's affected by framerate

so i wouldn't be surprised

[merry pumice]

Bonsoir, je souhaite partager ma petite contribution au jeu, aujourd'hui je me suis amusé a traduire le jeu en francais, c'est pas parfais mais c'est un début 🙂 merci a vous. Good evening, I want to share my little contribution to the game, today I had fun translating the game into French, it's not perfect but it's a start 🙂 thank you.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, cool! Have you contacted the devs about this at all?

I think there's been other community translations that I've seen them support.

[merry pumice]

hello, no I did not contact the devs directly, I searched everywhere I found the translations nowhere. It's not professional translation but it does the job.

[trim kestrel]

Thanks very much @solemn shell and @zinc vessel for excellent proof reading and content suggestions on the wikizet progress guide! #📷-ck-media message

I've replied over here to avoid spamming the media channel. (My bad.)

I think I've addressed all of the points raised. Mostly implementing them. And/or rewriting the top blurb.

I removed the colourations, as they were there from before I started editing and I guess were meant to show optional bosses, but didn't show up so well. Or at all for me, because I use the Darkreader plugin to reduce contrast on all web pages.

What do you think about the part 1 huge item table? Think it should be split into separate biome tables? It's way overloaded compared to how it originally was, with just the armour and weapon listed. heh.

Does the guide name make best sense, too?
https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Progression_guide_for_items_and_bosses

Oh, and I only included the tin spike trap because I don't see the galaxite (flame) trap as changing anything for mob farming. Does anyone actually use them for boss kills and find they provide fundamental utility over tin traps?

Similar with the turrets. I've not yet seen a solid use for them that makes sense to recommend in a standard playthrough. 🤷

[solemn shell]

i thought radii was a typo...

[trim kestrel]

I did have to check with Google that I had it right, when I was typing it. 😅

@clear sierra - Thanks. I'll have a proper look at that later. But for one thing, the first "ore" is wood. So... 🤔 #📷-ck-media message

[clear sierra]

Okay, I see what you mean by that lol
I honestly don't think considering wood in this situation is really necessary, specially because it would be the first (if not, the second) item the player would get when first playing the game. Adding the Core figurine in the image is perfect, but the wood shouldn't be there imo

[clear sierra]

About this, I have something to say. Me and my friends are playing in hardmode, and for some mobs, the spike traps don't really hit the mobs enough for them to be killed while farming. Their healing abilities are enough to cover the damage and they're simply never killed. But maybe this should be added to a guide about hardmode specifically?

[floral tendon]

recently they changed it so that all traps disable passive mob healing

[clear sierra]

Does the guide name make best sense, too?
About the name, I'd suggest changing it to "Guide for Biome, Items and Bosses Progression"

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. As I understand it, provided the mob is stuck in an area of spike traps, they will never heal and all eventually die.

[clear sierra]

That's weird, I'll have to look into it the next time I play with them. I could swear they were still healing themselves the last time we played (which was last monday). But in any case, sorry about the wrong info ❤️

[trim kestrel]

There's always the chance of seeing an exception in how the game works (or doesn't). But yeah, please take another look and let us know if you see otherwise. 🙂

[clear sierra]

I'm thinking maybe this could be a bug or something that wasn't updated in hardmode specifically. I'll come back with more info, even if it is "guys, I was wrong, sorraaay" xD

[zinc vessel]

Well, the galaxite traps are not essential for mob farms, but they can make them more efficient as they deal more damage, especially if a mob farm is not optimal and the mobs have a chance to regain health like how quickly cavelings can still walk on conveyors. That said I haven't really tested that much with either one and only have a rather simple mob farm. I also mentioned it because galaxite stands a bit out with its lack of shown recipes and I thought this was more likely to be worth mentioning. They wouldn't have to be listed separately but could be mentioned in one line that they could improve mob farms, but I can understand that it wouldn't be that important for a general guide.

Now that I take another look, I noticed that it says for the galaxite tools "Incremental stat upgrade this equipment" which doesn't sound quite right, maybe you want to use the same sentence used for octarine which is "Incrementally improved equipment".

The first part is a bit bloated, but not sure what you could do about it. Maybe you could try to merge some listings, like I thought you could mention the tin fishing rod and the bait workbench in the same line, though maybe that wouldn't make much of a difference if it can't be kept within a line.

As for the title, I think it is fine.

[trim kestrel]

I've just been throwing together a max health page/guide: https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Max_health

I still need to add in a list of all the temp max health foods, and the current best max health equipment loadout... But do we have any thoughts on this so far? 🙂

(I'm off to bed, so will read anything tomorrow.)

[hoary osprey]

1. I believe that the line "This second source of bonus max health can be removed by resetting the vitality skill tree, using 200 Ancient Coins." is not required

2. Broken handle and Rune Song also give additional max HP, in addition of many armors and some accessories

3. The Temporary max health food buffs part need to break down in two parts: ingredient that grant max health; and other consumables that grant max health

[trim kestrel]

1249 1359 1358 Health

Is that the highest currently achievable (with new char/world)? 🤔 https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Max_health#Highest_max_health

[long dagger]

That sounds terrible, does that include the epic perm hp cooked food?

[lilac gale]

epic does not give any more perm hp than rare or uncommon

since perm hp is purely additive, and does not scale like the other buffs do with quality of the food

[long dagger]

rip

[lilac gale]

It's definitely not a lot, especially when you consider that this set doesn't allow you to deal really any form of decent dps lol

[raven owl]

Hey, I've got a question for you guys here since this seems to be more of a limit testing area.

Yesterday, I crudely tested to see the effective equal travel distance point for portals and rails.

On average, portals took around 6.5-7 seconds with the full click to open the map, select a location, and move upon screen returning.

Rails when using that time range to determine equal distance had an error of about 13 tiles, aiming closer to the 6.5 second mark since my average portal time was closer to that than 7. The overall range was from 78 on the high end to 66 on the low for a straight rail system.

I know that it can most definitely be measured much more reliably using frames, but I wanted to at least put the knowledge out there about current efficiency, as my estimate puts an average rail system only being faster or on par at between 30-50 tiles due to how bases typically meander from being either compartmentalized or just spread out in different open areas.

Would it be possible to eventually find an actual hard number for the true equal limit where rails and portals can "travel" at the same speed with a more refined test of similar methodology?

One of my big motivators for doing this is due to feedback that I eventually plan to put together and post. The other is because of how seemingly ineffective it now is to use rails in their current implementation with the introduction of portals.

[long dagger]

if the map is already zoomed out then using a portal could be a second quicker without having to zoom out

[raven owl]

I'll attach some images shortly with a more specific write up

[raven owl]

So, my test was done using this location with my hand hovering over the portal like so to time from the moment I clicked my mouse in tandem with a timer in my other hand

It was started immediately upon opening the map up pre-oriented to the zoom level and a specific location similar to the shown image now. I used this portal to go to, and I have highlighted the specific portal with blue.

Upon the animation opening to allow the player to see the game again, I moved and also stopped the other timer in my hand as close to simultaneously as I possibly could with human reaction times. This is how I got the 6.5 to 7 second animation range, but it typically trended around 6.5 to 6.7 seconds for 15 runs only from the portal I was at to the other circled in blue.

For the minecart testing after obtaining the portal timing, I had a similar start to the portals, hovering over it to click both a timer and the minecart, but I also held down the movement key to my left side since I had extended out the track to Ghorm's ring for the test. It looked approximately like this for the starting position.

While this image has the tracks removed to count the distance and error, it is the final results I tallied do this manually. To obtain the spots, I held my timer beside by character on screen so I could visually mark the spot on the rails I was upon the approximate timing of 6.5 seconds. I marked it with bridges, which I had also already removed at this point in the image.

To tally the overall distance, I first picked up the complete range of bridges lining the sides, and dropped them on the ground for a count of 13. After removing them from my inventory, I picked up the remaining distance to my starting point on the circle. The overall distance can be seen here more closely, and was a total of 66 tiles for the lowest distance I recorded, up to 78 tiles at the furthest. This was also done 15 times one way, from the right side of the track out left. The map in the above, although small, is fully zoomed in, with the core middle tiles on the right edge of the image, and the partial track tile limit on the left for what I did not end up reaching.

My estimate for effective range of 30-50 tiles total is just based off of my anecdotal evidence of visiting friend's worlds, as well as others that I have joined to make trades which were not just trader worlds, so this may be too high or low for a reasonable estimate of effective minecart range compared to portals.

To improve this, you could measure frame by frame in a recording, with button input also mapped on screen to get precise timings. Another way to do so is to teleport to a range of targets, and reset the map to a potential real world position so that the map could be drug to increase average time of use before beginning the portal transportation animation. On top of this, both the minecart and portal could be run up to in a variety of directions, with the timer beginning then at a set distance to also replicate how simple it is to engage with the actual transportation objects.

Either way, I think it's safe to say that both systems should probably be tweaked, which I'm sure they will eventually get around to, but it was good to put into perspective just how good portals are compared to the older transportation system of minecarts.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, there's a few things that'd be a no brainer to switch out, if you're being serious. But for a meme build, it's not terrible...

You've got ivy's set bonus you could proc with poison talent. And add a few other food buffs in. 😅

[trim kestrel]

Interesting. I'd been wondering at what distance it's better to run than to TP...

I'm super-lazy and have a bunch of short distance portals, since I so often forget items when I'm experimenting near my base.

My critique would be that there's never a minecart there when I need it. So could easily double the time, getting one out to place it down.

Hence running (with basic bomb pepper buff) would be my comparison. But I expect it's similar. 1 to 2 screen widths, as you say.

And I think maybe the devs mentioned wanting to make portals quicker to operate, too. Which would especially make sense over short distances.

Minecarts are just defunct for most stuff, come late game. Although, their advantage is being able to stop anywhere along their route.

[floral tendon]

ngl i think portals should take longer to operate

it's really not fun when early mechanics become completely superceded

ofc they could also just make minecarts more generally useful

...somehow

[glad widget]

id like portals to bring up a separate map showing only portals vs seeing your own marked up map with all the pois/boulders marked up on it.

as it is set up now i sometimes get portal'd to a location while accidently hitting a portal location trying to drag the map to the site i want to go.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. This bothers me. Teleport of click down rather than click release (without drag).

Players may want to see all their other types of markers on, by default, to know where they want to go, though.

[glad widget]

maybe, but if say you have a single portal in a direction, you can just click the icon on the edge without zooming unless its too close to another icon.

the overlap requires a zoom in to some of my portals now.

[raven owl]

I think the best way to deal with portals currently is to change the general use case of minecarts, as they're far and away effectively useless at this point. If they commit to keeping minecart systems as a form of transportation almost exclusively, portals need to be nerfed or have mechanics changed. I prefer the latter for a cool down upon use, but then you just potentially make portal spam for those who don't want to wait, but potentially for more cost of resources and for sure clutter.

My opinion on portals being nerfed is unpopular for sure, but I think when the gap between the use case for the old transportation system and the most recent one is so large, it's not healthy and something should change.

I can get around to testing a reasonable running build later today along the same stretch with bomb pepper food, polished swift rings, Omoroth necklace, Morpha bag, and the godsent armor using a dash feather. Could skip the swift rings as well since it'd be a more common all around set that's used with whatever ring set. Fully expect it to be further than minecarts.

[glad widget]

something to consider is player type. ie casual vs moderate vs hardcore.
For the casual, the cost of portals is very high, since a casual will be the person or persons that only play a few hours a week. The mine cart will be used much more exclusively by the casual as they will have more time in early to mid game before portals become an option.
For the moderate, the difference becomes a bit more noticeable, but i think they will use a mix of both as they progress through endgame.
For the hardcore, there will be no appeasing them long term, as they grind through content faster than anyone else.

[raven owl]

Yes, also something very important to consider, but I believe my point stands, as even a casual is eventually going to have enough portals to render the minecarts effectively as a waste.

[glad widget]

It becomes one of those bell curve things or x y graphs, balancing to keep the most amount of players in the middle would likely be the goal, and add extended life to the playability by all types.

[raven owl]

It will be fine in time. I expect electricity to eventually be tied in to minecarts, so their use case will more than likely different from portals at some point.

[glad widget]

throw some asphalt / road ground that gives a speed bonus to karts, and we can start building streets 😄

[fallow hawk]

Reading through this now. I feel like I'm missing syntax here.
(From The Malugaz entry)

Also is there a reason you only linked a strategy guide for him and not the other bosses?

[raven owl]

Other bosses have much, much larger arenas. Mal takes up a lot of his small arena with area burn damage tiles, so that's why I would consider him being the only one who really needs it.

Especially since he has a second form phase, unlike the others who just speed up attack patterns

Strategy in CK as an oversimplification also just boils down to circles against bosses

[trim kestrel]

I think I linked to all the boss strategy guides that I've written, so far (In my progression guide). Did I not?

[fallow hawk]

I only see the one for Mal.

[trim kestrel]

Well, that's the combat tactic. But the strategy is more in the preparation of gear and modifying the arena.

[fallow hawk]

Oh no the first three have it.

But that's it. Just the first three and Mal.

(I used the find feature this time.)

Clicking on the name of each boss does lead to the wiki page for them.

[raven owl]

The word strategy's common use across different communities is going to vary slightly ig, but I only consider strategy how you fight, not really everything you use. Fair enough though

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. I've not written a full strategy section for any of the titans yet. And all the slime bosses have the same cheese strat, so. 😅🤷

[fallow hawk]

Are you saying you also authored the bosses wiki page? How much of the wiki is just you?

[trim kestrel]

I totally re-wrote the the strategy sections for all the first 3 bosses and Malugaz. And various bits of the the rest of their pages.

The wiki is only Cysidus (creator/owner) and me. Basically. He's done the clever data harvesting, set up the structure and most of the tables and such. A huge amount of items. And I've come along and added a load of blurbs all over, guide text, screen shots (e.g. biomes and most of the scenes) and filled in gaps and such (e.g. paintable objects).

We could still do with a bunch more basic item pages created for a load of stuff that came in with the desert update. (Looking through the "base" items page for red links.) If anyone's interested. Or other bits and pieces. Guides, whatever.

[fallow hawk]

I've been meaning to make a player guide of sorts. But I've been distracted by Horizon's Gate (so good you should play it.)

Do you mind if I send you what I had so far?

[trim kestrel]

You can do. If it's a lot of text, I might struggle to read through, to be honest. Ironically. 😅

[raven owl]

Zero, do you guys plan to put recycling tables up for armor, tools, and weapons?

[trim kestrel]

Salvage is, I think, something @steep pagoda explicitly has in mind.

That's less my kinda work. I'd be slow and inefficient at making that kind of thing. And he can use clever back end stuff.

Actually, wiki wise (and for the Map Tool, in future, when Cedric's not too busy) what we could really do with is someone to make a new whole world revealed map, on a pristine new world. (Using mods.)

[raven owl]

@lilac gale scrapped a lot of the single world items and rare things yesterday. I figured eventually the returns from recycling would be put up. So when it gets done, a lot of the more annoying items have already been compiled for returns.

I can go dig up the videos later if Peace doesn't put them here

[trim kestrel]

All the data will be extractable directly from game assets with this, I expect. Also in a way that might (semi-)automatically update the pages if and when materials change.

[raven owl]

Definitely an improvement over manually having to do so

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. In principle. Although maybe more brain power to sort it out. And just as much (lacking) motivation...

[floral tendon]

@trim kestrel do you know if cocoons and mushrooms have a local cap?

[trim kestrel]

Which kind?

In terms of the spawn cell, they both reduce the chance of more spawning in that cell...

[floral tendon]

like a hard cap

cause i can't imagine that they would fill all available spawn surfaces if left alone

[trim kestrel]

I've very little idea of hard mob type caps, in general. I've only seen second hand reports of that, from one or two players during the halloween event bug.

But...

They won't fill all spawn surface and block other mobs.

Mushrooms will spawn more (higher odds and less chance reduction maybe (I forget). But I'd be amazed to see more than 5 cocoons in a single cell full of chrysalis, even if you left it afk for a week.

[floral tendon]

yeah hmm

i just wonder if it's relative to # of spawnable tiles or not

[trim kestrel]

Not sure what you mean exactly. But each tile gets its own rng roll, per spawn event, for each of its mob types.

And each mob in the cell divides the chance to spawn on that tile by a factor of 5. So 2 mobs is divide by 25. So it get's very improbable very fast, as they accumulate.

[floral tendon]

hmm i see

[glad widget]

i havnt picked any shrooms from this room. full mycelium underneath 16x16. been a week or so of passive farming (clearing the shroomman drops)

[floral tendon]

i'm wondering if like, hypothetically, if i had 6 chrysalis tiles in a cell

or whatever the minimum was

could potentially 2-3 of them get taken up by cocoons

fwiw i sort of don't think mushrooms work the same way as cocoons

or at least, the rate reduction must be vastly different

since i've seen mushrooms take up most of the space in a small number of tiles

[glad widget]

my chrysalis room i knock some down, others i sit next to they open , and for whatever reason they go away or i may have hit em later. not sure, since i didnt keep the same policy on that room as the shroom room.

think ive seen at most about 6 or 7 cocoons in the chrysalis room at one time. same 16x16

i can go ahead and keep cocoons off the smash n grab list and let it go some more time and see what happens tho

[trim kestrel]

Eventually. And the other tiles would continue to spawn Larva. Because blocked tiles aren't deducted from the minimum requirement count.

[floral tendon]

hum

[raven owl]

Rice, I can say with confidence from how much time I've spent near my mob grinder that mushrooms at the very least get exponentially slower the more that are in an area. Once I build my big one, I'll reach back out with findings if someone doesn't before me.

It's just gonna be a few weeks because I'm starting to slow down again to take care of work.

[shadow grove]

CAN YOU SEND the second image in a better resolution? to identify your naming?

[winged cypress]

right click => open link, maybe this can help?
or try the link in the video here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3CMA7pIUkk&ab_channel=きず

[trim kestrel]

Looks like @dim orchid found the same 15 tiles per second turret projectile speed as me, with a fancier method 😀 https://youtu.be/Re8Hbr5-pTg

[glad widget]

!forscience 😄

[long dagger]

Idk if I already asked or forgot to but would crabs work instead of core sentries for the compact turret stacking? 4 spacing between turrets, 8-9 spacing between the crab and turret

[trim kestrel]

I don't see why not. Why crabs specifically, instead of slimes?

[long dagger]

Slimes can't replace core sentries cause of the hitbox

But I'm wondering if crabs r large enough since they prob don't tp away

It'd prob be a bit of an issue trying to capture them unless if the slime set makes crabs friendly too

[long dagger]

For the more compact design*

[trim kestrel]

It does (the slime set). So there's that. But I have seen crab mob-teleport-bugged in stupid places. Others have seen that en-mass, too. So I wouldn't hold you breath on them staying in place.

How about if you squeezed 2 or 3 slimes into each spot, somehow...?

[long dagger]

😶‍🌫️

Mobs can get compact when unloaded but u wouldn't be quick enough to destroy their path, only idea I got is to hook 1 or 2 of the new bomb to some wires to destroy the belt and bridge from a distance

[trim kestrel]

I feel like you could get 2 slimes in (vertically) fairly reliably. Could be wrong. using conveyors. Maybe on the captive tile itself, too. Should cause on to be pushed to each side, I imagine.

[long dagger]

If they stay in their respective corners without wiggling around too much then it could work

If it doesn't then a 3rd slime will be needed but it'll prob be compact to get them in a single tile, preferably I'd wanna limit the amount of slime per segment to avoid any issues and lag if building multiple of it

Since mobs get unloaded at about 105 tiles, they wouldn't take dmg either right?

What if u make a platform that's about 5 by 5, have the conveyors face inwards and explode the belts and tiles from outside the range, 1 tile gap then the bomb then set them off 105+ tiles away

I'm hoping the result would be them getting restrained further on the smaller island

Getting them very compact like that would have some potential for turret stacking or for just using them in place of turrets to kill mobs

[mint warren]

Can I ask why you need them confined to one tile?

Because looking at your diagrams the cone seems to overlap two/maybe three tiles in length

As in the position of the mobs to activate the turrets

[long dagger]

The cone targeting I drew isn't perfect, I didn't put time nor effort into it so it's not pixel accurate

Well it may be fairly accurate but I forgot to mention

Turrets block other turrets vision so the positioning will get a bit odd when trying to compact it

Core sentries work cause of the large hitbox, slimes need an extra tile cause of their small size

[mint warren]

That's okay, I was just wondering if by extending the tile the mob is positioned by an extra one, the turrets could potentially be closer

I am yet to try turret stacking out though myself so it was just a thought

[long dagger]

Turrets need a 4 tile gap, any closer and it blocks the side vision completely

[mint warren]

Ahh okay I see, thank you 🙂

[trim kestrel]

Right. I think 105 tiles is about the range at which mobs vanish and stop fighting each other...

And that's the limit in size for your turret stacks, right? We talked about this in detail before. And you've not exceeded that since?

Your bomb plan sounds daring and very complex, heh.

Just dropping a link here to this post where I found out that turrets can shoot through fences: #💬-off-topic message

[long dagger]

it does seem like 100 ish tiles is the limit for turrets to target cause of the mobs unloading like u said

as for the projectile going through the fence :0

i was gonna test something but that may help

[long dagger]

fences don't seem to help with my idea and this didn't work either, seems like the core sentry build is as compact as u can currently get. I could prob improve the mobs used but that's about it

it doesn't shoot if your stationary but you also get hit with the door being open. it'd shoot from that position if u just move slightly but that's not ideal

cause it wouldn't shoot if u didn't move

[tawny crescent]

completely end game, what are the strongest ranged builds?

got all skills maxed

so just need to know gear, weapons, etc

[trim kestrel]

It's a good question, with no definitive answer that I've seen. Although a lot of talk about it in #🎮-game-discussion.

No one's built a fully featured damage calculator, yet. So it's difficult to compare.

Especially when crit builds are strong, but somewhat stochastic in effect. And it depends if you're looking to one-shot all tough mobs, or achieve highest average dps vs bosses. And if you're going to struggle to survive the fight, with a glass cannon build.

I'm curious to know the theoretical strongest builds, though, for sure. 🙂

[burnt sand]

crit ranged honestly

with a lot of food buffs

[long dagger]

Idk if there's enough attack speed buffs for range to compete against crit range

Would the bazooka be the best weapon for speed farming the desert titan boss cause of the amount of times it hits per shot? It has to be shot directly on its hitbox as if ur using a melee to trigger the multiple hits

[burnt sand]

solo play? id say its best to do a mix of ranged with bombs if youre good at dodging

thats how I did it

[lilac gale]

I'd still say that either throwing dagger or galaxite chakram would be better with crit setups

Burnzooka wouldn't necessarily be a bad option

[long dagger]

Y bombs, it should be fairly quick with a good dps build

I don't remember how many times burnzooka can hit the boss with a single shot but it seemed a bit solid. That was way before these new builds were posted so idk how well it'd compete now

[trim kestrel]

@rich folio posted a vid of them doing hard mode Omoroth in 7 seconds: #📷-ck-media message

They used ranged crit with daggers and Scarab set thorns. But with God armour legs piece to increase tornado soul power [chance]. Which apparently shredded.

[rich belfry]

I made a video about the build. I didnt get 7 seconds, took me longer. But it still was really short. fastest I ever killed him. Chrono admitted he got very lucky with crits and procs for tornado

[lilac gale]

Definitely did, but I manage 10 ish seconds pretty regularly with the build

[trim kestrel]

🌪️

[long dagger]

some notable changes, theres a few other ones under quality of life.

[primal rapids]

yup, especially this

• Turrets now put enemies into combat. This makes them more useful for mob farms and also more consistent with how Spike Traps work.
<3<3<3<3<3

[long dagger]

no major changes for turret stacking in my case but ig its nice for mob farms using very few turrets

[trim kestrel]

Oh, I had a quick play with turrets in my optimal farm, earlier. And it seems like they can indeed totally replace mobs (walled off).

Probably more reliable, in that they are never targeted and broken. Lot easier to setup than crabs, too. Once one has desert resources.

[lilac gale]

Very promising, I may need to take the time to make a large scale farm then now..

[agile abyss]

• crab rave music starts playing *

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, they just riding the carousel for fun now... 😅

[floral tendon]

finally 🧎‍♂️

[trim kestrel]

Your farm should work good now, yes? Could check if turrets fire through walls anymore too (I think it may be fixed)? 🙂

[floral tendon]

LOL

well

i long since rebuilt it to use stacked turrets

but yeah i'll check on the firing through walls once i get back to core keeper

[sour heart]

is it known what causes caveling "hunting parties" to spawn?

[clear sierra]

Afaik, it starts spawning whenever you kill a certain amount of those types of cavelings. Idk what amount specifically, but if you kill like 50, they'll spawn eventually. Even if those 50 are spread through the players that are exploring together.

But they'll primarily target one of you specifically, and go after the others if they're nearby

[sour heart]

is there a cooldown time/does that caveling kill count reset at some point?

[clear sierra]

I'm not sure about the technicalities behind the mechanic, but when you stop killing them a little bit, they stop spawning. But I mean, if you're constantly exploring and killing the ones in front of you, then they'll spawn quite constantly.

Anyway, I'm sure somebody else here might understand this better and explain it better to you. What I'm relating is only my own experience

I'd also like to know the specifics behind it all

[sour heart]

thank you! that's v helpful

[lilac gale]

I think we at one point did have someone who knew the specifics and shared them, I just don't remember what those specifics were

[long dagger]

Zero, mz I think, and I were talking about it

There needs to be a clear path from the mob to the player, there's a heat map or something involved if I remember correctly which is what the mobs follow to the player even if it's a long route with no walls. Then based off what I've seen, I think it gets one of the nearby mobs, adds some more to it then turns it into a raiding party that follows u

It tps nearby mobs to that mob to turn it into a raid

And I don't think u need to kill for it to happen, or atleast u don't have to kill that many

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, not sure of numbers, but I feel like some killing is needed.

All above info agrees with as much as I know. 🙂

[long dagger]

If more than one raid party were to happen in a short period or perhaps out of range, then some mobs may permanently just despawn. I've seen this happen a few times in my turret stacking build which kept wasting my time in having to spawn more and moving them

[long dagger]

I thought this was for servers only, its funny to see it happen, lol

[long dagger]

😱

the farm feels smoother, i can try setting up the wires for it later and hope theres no other issue. it was a surprise fix that i wasnt expecting since it persisted before the lights update

either i settle for this or redo the wiring which i might to test out other designs since the fps shouldnt be an issue anymore

is there no longer a fps cap? i couldnt find it in settings

[lilac gale]

I haven't looked to this for awhile, but if vsync is there it can act like a cap of sorts

[trim kestrel]

I had that too. Capped to 60fps for the entire time, with VSync enable (to stop tearing). Then I changed the NVidia control panel "resolution" tab refresh rate to 170, while the game was running, and it changed it to that in-game, too. 😶

[trim kestrel]

How much fps improvement you seeing?

Maybe this is related to the patch note about object loading "regression"..?

[long dagger]

The fps basically doubled in my case, used to be 20ish to 28 fps at the farm with everything on low and now its around a solid 40 or so, only drops as low as 30 or below when clicking off the game

It was a big improvement so if I add the belts now to the left side then fps may not drop as much

[trim kestrel]

So, apparently even this basic turret setup can chew through a full loop mob backlog (took about 5 minutes to clear). 🙂

[crisp goblet]

So is pretty much everything aside from scarabs easily farmable with turrets now?

[lilac gale]

Scarab are just the anti-farm mob 🤷‍♂️

But yes

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. Just about 10 times more effort for scarabs (with the stacked turrets). So not worth.

Sea tentacles also viable but too high effort.

Only issue with my simple setup was if crabs fought with butterflies (during conveyor overload). There were a few turrets broken as collateral damage.

Haed mode mobs would presumably take far longer to chew through, too. So a large farm would need need more turrets on a bigger loop, to deal with all the extra hp.

I think galaxite turrets might have enough splash damage that pileups would just increase their damage output enough, though.

[dim orchid]

I killed Ghorm by 1 hit stacked projectiles. 😆

[long dagger]

Lol, nice

I was honestly expecting multiple rows of turrets

[dim orchid]

Hehe, this is one-time use setup. just for fun and challenge. 😃

And I don't want to show you this silly idea.😂

[dim orchid]

setup