Core Keeper University

[trim kestrel]

Maybe I used an inappropriately specific coding term. I was meaning only algorithmically. The list of times for next spawn event being due.

[inland compass]

i wouldn't put it past them. everything is highly dependent on unity structures for convenience

[trim kestrel]

Thinking of that... I wonder if each cell always goes on a 15 minute spawn event cool down. Then when the list becomes too long, from too many cells in range, it's constantly dealing with a backlog, that just happens to stretch out to 22 minutes when every cell in range is present...? 22:00 seems unlikey round number though.

[inland compass]

in theory they could use a data structure like a quad tree to keep track of which cells are in range

is it exactly 22 and 15?

oddly close to 1.5x the original time

[trim kestrel]

22, yes. 15 at core in new world, also yes.

15:25 at my current experimental location out in nowhere, which I would have thought would have fewer cells in range with terrain than my new world, where I explored all of dirt biome.

If each test of spawn event time didn't take up to 44 minutes of dedicated screen time, I'd love to make a bunch more point readings to check some ideas...

[heavy chasm]

so here's my mob farm @trim kestrel

[trim kestrel]

Ok. Have you looked at this in Craigin's map tool, with the "Mob Grid" on?

Looks like you're farming larva and orange slimes, there?

[heavy chasm]

yess my farm is not within the grid and i should move it right?

here is the grids

[trim kestrel]

Cool. So, with single spawn-type farm areas, you will actually get 2x more basic mobs (e.g. orange slimes or small larva) if your farm area is cut in half by a grid line. Compared to if it is entirely inside one cell.

If it's split 4 ways, you will get 4x as many basic spawns. Provided you have about 8 or more tiles in each cell.

For the high tier mobs, like red slimes or big larva, the grid doesn't matter as much. It's mostly about having more spawn tiles. But splitting them between more cells still helps that a little bit, too.

[trim kestrel]

But the biggest way to improve the output of your farms, would be to mix up the spawn types all together. So you have at least 8 tiles of slime and 8 tiles of chrysalis (larva type) in every spawn cell (grid box).

That could double your production rate of all the basic mobs.

Then add in all the other spawn surfaces into these same cells, too. As each one gets a spawn separately.

[heavy chasm]

okay thanks alot!

[trim kestrel]

So, today, blocking scholar spawns with one mob showed the exact same divide by 6 effect on spawn chance (from 0.3 down to 0.05). While sentry spawning went unaffected:

... But I'm uncertain what to make of the results for blocking orange slime with 2 orange slimes.

I was expecting divide by 12 (additive divide by 6, for each mob), upper green dotted line. But it landed closer to divide by 20 (lower dotted green line) which would have no obvious logic.

I suspect that the accumulation of mobs in the final bin spilled over into the spawn cell and block the last few cycles with an extra mob of each. Would just about correct both the orange and red slime lines being lower than expected.

[unborn summit]

Does chunk boader effect spawn rate?

[trim kestrel]

I think the border is an infinitely thin line between tiles.

The map tool is limited to highlighting the tiles either side of them.

It seems that if a mob's hitbox extends over this line, at all, it blocks in both spawn cells.

[trim kestrel]

Now, this was a fun one to calculate...! 😵‍💫

Who remembers the binomial equation, from maths lessons? Having to take into account permutations when calculating the odds for at least 4 infected to spawn in X tiles (rolls) took some Googling to re-discover this function. Heh.

Bottom line is that 65 mold tiles should be enough to get all 4 (maximum) infected to spawn 90% of the time.

[trim kestrel]

Interestingly, the tentacles didn't seem to slow their own spawn rate down at all, until they hit 4 of them. Then they only got one more in several hours.

I'm wondering if this is related to the "respawnChanceDecay" value being "0" for mold tentacles (and infected). Instead of "0.8" for everything else.

I guess test infected self-inhibition tomorrow, by repeating this with blocking mobs...

[trim kestrel]

This graph more reflective of how many infected one will get on average, for X number of mold tiles; only about 10 tiles needed to get an average of 1 mob per spawn event.

An average of 2, per event, with 20 tiles. 3 with 35 tiles.

[crisp goblet]

Do all the factions attack each other, and if building a spawn cell containing all the different spawn surfaces, is there a likelihood that there will be an accumulation of any certain mobs not being killed?

[hoary osprey]

Enemies from different biome attacks each other except the cavelings (and sentry) do not attack other cavelings

My cells just have either cavelings or mold mobs to stack.

[inland compass]

Mold biome is hostile to all

Cavelings are passive to other cavelings

[trim kestrel]

Don't forget the biggest alliance of mobs: Shrooms, Slimes and Sea Monsters! 😅 (I'd love someone to confirm that none of those are hurt by Omoroth, or Morpha, etc.)

[trim kestrel]

When I was running my rainbow spawn test chambers...: #📷-ck-media message

... I found that (with 8 tiles of each) the outcome was extremely variable, between cavelings and slimes winning (very rarely infected). And could flip who dominated the next round, sometimes. because 1 mob in the cell makes it 6 times less likely for another to spawn.

But I'm going to work today on seeing if infected are a lot less affected by that blocking affect (as I suspect).

[crisp goblet]

Ran a chamber (1 spawn cell, 10 of each spawn surface except mold which had 30) all night (~10 hours) with no kill mechanisms save for the mobs killing each other. When I came back this morning the only thing in the chamber was 1 hunter, and a buttload of loot.

[crisp goblet]

Can spawn surfaces be stacked?

[trim kestrel]

Only the (visually) top spawn surface can spawn mobs.

[trim kestrel]

Cool. I was worried you were going to say it was over-run by infected. But that shouldn't much affect it's production of other mobs.

So, like that's the easiest way to setup a farm. Or, rather, it would be, if not for rare brutes able to break other spawn surface types.

[crisp goblet]

No damage after 10 hours afk; I feel the repairs needed for the very rare brutes would be minimal maintenance

A downside to this set up, is that there's always something left alive each round, which will affect rates for the next round--the flipside to that, is that it's often a caveling.. which as I understand would further suppress brute spawning, no?

[trim kestrel]

Caveling miners specifically? I found them quite suicidal...

And no, mobs only supress their own exact type.

[crisp goblet]

Ah k.
For the rounds I did observe, which was maybe about 10.. it was often either a scholar or two, a hunter, or purple and/or blue slime

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, I think that's true, if you're happy with a single cell farm. But if you start scaling that up to, say half a dozen or more, it's going to start to be irritating, I'd guess.

But the much bigger problem is loot collection, right? I mean, there's a lot of different loots all mixed in together. More than can be carried together, I think...? Even before unstackable items...

.
Oh, did I ask, yet: what do you each think of my combining drop icons vertically with identical ones from another mob?

[crisp goblet]

Yeah, if I started with an empty inventory I might have been able to pick it all up at once; but with what I started with in my inventory it was 2 trips

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, that's not too bad. If it's just one or two cells. And you have chests to dump stuff in near (and an NPC for selling).

But scaling up is a bit.... challenging. Gotta be an auto-sorter, right? (Which means kill-on conveyor. Which means all spawn surfaces covered in conveyor, or keeping mob types segregated...)

Although, ultimately there's no nice way to dispose of the unstackables, even then.

[crisp goblet]

Would be easier to scan, for sure

[trim kestrel]

Would be easier to scan if I didn't combine...? I was trying to reduce the clutter. But yeah, my brain doesn't process that without conscious effort.

[crisp goblet]

Easier to scan if you did

[trim kestrel]

I mean, like I did here. Both lush cavelings drop lush moss, etc.

You like that better than....

[crisp goblet]

Oh I was even thinking across the entire column; eg aligning the various seeds, like between hunters/farmers and slime
As far as A/B, A

[trim kestrel]

But they're grouped in sections by drop chance... 😕 (To give a quick idea of which mobs are best to farm when one's after a specific drop.)

[crisp goblet]

Leave sections as they are, just rearrange items within them. Eg, move the hunter/farmer heartberry seed to the second section column, to align with the slime's (also realigning the red slime's/combining as per A

Like right now, the scholar and crab/tentacle have their ore and wood drops aligned

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, I see what you're saying. But that's just fluke. They're also arrange in descending order of drop-chance within the sub-sections.

[crisp goblet]

Ok yeah, that just clicked.

(Haven't had my 2nd coffee yet 🥱 )

[trim kestrel]

It's good feedback, as to what isn't obvious. I'll label that feature up. 👍

[crisp goblet]

As my tired brain understood it, the entire sections were just a range.. even after you said it the first time it didn't click that within the sections they were ordered by chance

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, I wonder if it's worth stretching all the item columns out horizontally, to give those spanned vertically the space to be big enough to clearly spanned multiple rows...

I'm not keen on the differing icon sizes, though. The spawn surface icons too. (Thoughts?)

[crisp goblet]

Which mobs pose a problem for kill mechanisms/auto item collection?

I agree with you, the varying icon sizes is not great

[hoary osprey]

Can you try to make the same drop in the same row and use color to represent drop rate?

[trim kestrel]

Well, brutes, for a start, if even one has a fight on a conveyor, it can cripple a whole farm system. So they have to be collected via a separate route (topologically challenging). Or killed (and collected from) separately in every cell.

[hoary osprey]

If I keep a brute in the single tile in a mob grid, is that will stop all further brute to spawn in the same mob grid?

[trim kestrel]

It would further reduce the odds. But over enough time, you could still get another. With a cell full of caveling moss, I got up to 3 brutes in total, after not so long.

[trim kestrel]

See, I thought of using the automatic colour scale formatting. But that would mean having a (hidden) space for entering every drop percentage, in there too. (Which I'm not even sure how to do.)

I can not be doing with figuring out all the different shades of colour manually! 😵‍💫

And it might not even track very well, visually. Compared to this.

[crisp goblet]

Is there a general mob attack range?

Or does it differ between ranged mobs

[hoary osprey]

You mean aggro range or reach range?

[crisp goblet]

The range at which they'll fire

I'm thinking you could aggro ranged mobs to attack across mobs of their own faction.. as a kill mechanic

[hoary osprey]

Ranged mob's attack do not hit mobs of same faction

[crisp goblet]

Do they not? That's unfortunate

I could have sworn I watched a scholar kill a miner while trying to shoot a slime

But, tired brain.. so who knows what I saw

[hoary osprey]

Sorry I have not tried to put scholar and miner into same cells since I cannot figured out how to handle the brute.

but I have been killed by shooting by a bunch of hunter and scholars shooting together to me

[trim kestrel]

Incidentally, for fun, I tucked in a few, cute little one mob type, mini-farms (in the space between my other experiments)...

It's quite fun to see that all slimes will happily donate themselves to a single spike trap. And even farmers and infected will die on spikes in a reasonable time, with one tile of poison slime in their section, to anti-heal them.

But this is no use in hard mode and takes even more effort manually collecting from, with separate enclosures. I guess, just for if you want a single cell mini-farm, and maybe don't have all the spawn surface types, to balance fights better...

[trim kestrel]

I think there's a range of different aggro ranges between mob types. Certainly e.g. purple slime very short compared to range mobs. But it's one set of data I'd like to pin down for this table:

Others have already used the varying affective ranges to use opposed ranged mobs to kill each other.

Or, I guess it was really more a numbers advantage thing (with optional meat shield/decoys).

I wanna come up with a maximal simple version of these, though.

[trim kestrel]

Oh, and it looks like infected may have have very low, or literally zero, reduction in spawn rate (from mob accumulation). As per their "respawnChanceDecay" being 0, instead of 0.8 for [most] other mobs, I guess.

But, with 100 mold tiles in one cell, they capped out at exactly 20 mobs. Then, after I killed 4, 4 more spawned the next event. Like, not a gradual tailing off in rate, at all. More a hard cap.

That might actually be 5 x 4 (their max spawns per event property), given that tentacles also seem to cap out at 5, each time I've tested. But they have a much lower base spawn rate, so hard to be sure. But their "respawnChanceDecay" is also zero.

The multi-bin spawn chance measurement test on infected did seem to show a slightly slower rate with 2 infected permanently in the cell. But the curve shape might just have been a fluke, at the low end of the tiles, where there's only one per bin.

[trim kestrel]

I'm now thinking that each mob (in instances other than mold) divides the spawn chance by 5.

Which I guess could use the "respawnChanceDecay" = 0.8 by multiplying by (1 - 0.8) = 0.2. Same as dividing by 5.

The scholars fit this fairly well. A bit of an ugly fit on the 1-blocking (divide by 5 once) orange lines.

[crisp goblet]

Makes sense

[trim kestrel]

My re-run on the slimes, with 2 oranges blocking, fits this better, too. (Blue line instead of green, previously, which was a more ugly fit.)

So I'm calling most mobs' spawn chance getting divided by 5 for each mob in the cell.

[trim kestrel]

Anything to add or change with this info?

[serene kraken]

Acid can be nullified by carpets maybe in notes

Can't really think of anything else.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah.

Not sure if worth having the fence as a separate column, just because player can walk through the horizontal fence tile without being poisoned, etc. I don't think any mobs can be affected by the debuffs from that tile either.

[serene kraken]

Ah I see what you've done.

I think it's worth having it separated yeah.

@trim kestrel are you aware of if posion slime ground affects morpha?

Not tried that.

He can definitely be poisoned so I'd assume the ground works fine..

But not yet tried it

[trim kestrel]

As you say, morpha's not immune to poison.

So it'd be a question of where you can position a tile of it, so they touch it without breaking it.

Is this row of tiles ok for morpha to jump on too, like ivy in Ron's video?

[serene kraken]

That row of tiles is okay yes.

I have used spike traps.

[trim kestrel]

Give it a go then. 🙂

[serene kraken]

This is going to make farming morpha easier then

Than having to switch to a poison build.

[trim kestrel]

OK, so, from moar testing this morning, here's what I now think is going on with how the game decides which cells are going to be active. (And a sneak preview at my previous graphic, under revision.)

[hoary osprey]

Is that include the cell the player at?

[trim kestrel]

208 tiles from the player's exact position. Which happens to be an exact multiple of cell width (13).

So, as you cross the mid-point of a cell, the next cell in that direction, 200 tiles away, turns on. Because its centre is within 208 tiles distance of player. OK?

.
When I started testing, I was initially hoping that it would be when you cross a cell boundary, that it shuffles the whole grid over 1 cell in that direction. But no, it's not that neat, it seems.

[fallen rampart]

do lit floors and/or torches prevent the various cavelings from spawning?

[winged knot]

wait... what is a cell size?

[inland compass]

16x16

the game spawns mobs locally in 16x16 cells

[inland compass]

does this mean we can use 5 poison slime tiles to slow healing of stone biome cavelings without risking brutes tearing everything up?

[trim kestrel]

Yes. And you can use more than that, too, if you block the slime tiles from spawning by putting caveling tiles or logic circuits under them. 😉

I've done this for my (normal mode) drill+spike caveling kill and collect test setup.

[trim kestrel]

Both yes. They block cavelings spawning.

Torches block everything and lit floor blocks everything except slimes: #977128133142659102 message

[shadow grove]

that means the spawn rate isnt decreased if a belt on top?

[trim kestrel]

Right.

[shadow grove]

Sorry for a reapted questions: the rainbow farm is the efficence?...

the most efficence, i mean

[inland compass]

If built in the 16x16 spawn cells, it should produce the most mobs

If you're going for secondary mobs (ie sentries or brutes) you need to cover all the tiles with their cover

[shadow grove]

bottom line, it make sense to create each spawn type in a 16x16 farm?

is 32x32 double spawning?

[inland compass]

Quadruple

And yes, each spawn type in a 16x16 will spawn the most mobs

[shadow grove]

is it doesnt matter if the 16x16 will cross a chunk?

and the spawn rate of Crab is in a 16x16 field just by 0,5% per spawn rate? that means i have to make the sand field for example 160x160 to have a spawn raten of 50%? every 20 min~ is the % per tile or chunk?

[inland compass]

Lol that is the only thing that matters. Use the map tool and click mob grid

Things need to fit in that grid

The % is per cell

So even filling the whole cell won't make it 100% for the harder to spawn mobs

Remember, don't use stone moss in the mixed room

[shadow grove]

yes because the mobs will fight against right?

[inland compass]

Yeah and brutes will break everything

[crisp goblet]

You cannot cross a chunk border, if you do you have two separate spawn areas which are now each less than 16x16

[shadow grove]

yes thats what im meaning: so if i will cross... i just have for example a 8x8 & 8x8 farm, correct?

it must fit in the borders of one chunk

[crisp goblet]

Well no, if split in half you'd have two 16x8s; If you crossed a corner, however, you might have four 8x8s

Regardless, in the end it's not longer a '16x16' area, it's multiple smaller areas

[inland compass]

Think about it more as in, every 16x16 cell is its own room. It only interacts with the tiles you put in it.

And use the map tool to see the room(cell) boundaries

[trim kestrel]

Does this help to explain the basic details of the system?

And do the colours on this graphic look overly vivid to anyone?

[fallen rampart]

Great, thanks! Does it only block on the tile it's placed on, or does it block for x number of adjacent tiles to a torch/lot floor?

[trim kestrel]

The Forgotten Ruins type cavelings are blocked from spawning on stone floor by artificial illumination. But not from being spawned by Stone Moss.

And no other mob types are are ever affected by lighting.

[trim kestrel]

Tweaked bit. (Any more or less clear?)

[hoary osprey]

Red font with black lining is too hard to read, maybe change to white lining or no lining?

[crisp goblet]

Definitely not no lining

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, I tweaked it several times for better visibility already... 😶

[trim kestrel]

I tried combinations of white outline and shaddow, but that didn't seem to look any better. So I've just boosted the size and character tracking a little. 🤷

[trim kestrel]

By the way, this was the product of just under 9 hours of drops from the 2 rainbow cell farms shown. Equivalent of about 70 spawn events in a single cell.

I'm not sure if this is in any way exciting or useful, at this point... 😅

Seems like Hunter's drop rate is over-tuned. Since Lush Moss became a thing and they're no longer rare.

[serene kraken]

That is actually quite interesting.

[crisp goblet]

Did you notice mobs lingering between waves, or did the spikes handle the 'winners' prior to the next spawn event?

[trim kestrel]

Because it would often spawn 3 or 4 infected, they'd be the most common winners (and few mold drops there). But not always; sometimes there'd be a single blue slime left, toying with the middle spike trap. Or cavelings.

The main bunch of traps were just for clearing the mushroom accumulation, of course. (Which is the other main issue to engineer around, with a mega-farm, other than brutes, I think.)

Although, the spikes did kill a few remaining infected or cavelings, when they'd happen to have stepped in poison. And one could cover the whole thing in spikes, but useless in hard mode I'd assume.

[shadow grove]

but it would be much nice if you had a place where you will put all your knowlege... for example in one of the existing wikipedias

[shadow grove]

but here you are not spawning mobs of Sunken sea, corrrect?

[trim kestrel]

Indeed, not. Gotta be in the sea biome area for that.

One could use all the empty space in my illustrative designs, above, for crabs, but their spawn chance will be quite low, still. A tentacle spawn would be a more sure-fire bet, with, say 30 to 40 tiles of water adjacent to land. But hard to automate collecting their drops.

[crisp goblet]

Are you sure that you need to be in the sea biome? I was coming under the impression that for spawning biome didn't matter at the end of the day, and all you needed was the appropriate spawn surface.

[trim kestrel]

That's true for all the spawn surfaces you lay on top of ground (slimes, mosses, chrysalis, fungal ground) plus mold.

But for the plain ground tiles themselves (stone, grass, beach sand) they only spawn anything in their native biomes.

And there's no different spawn rates between biomes (I was wrong about that before). They either just work, or not.

[crisp goblet]

Good to know

[crisp goblet]

Have you tested (or gleaned from game files) whether it is indeed "biome" restricted, or "distance-from-core" related? eg., will sand ground spawn crabs in the wilderness?

[trim kestrel]

It's biome locked, specifically, yes, as per the file(s) I've looked at.

[hoary osprey]

How to know which biome is the tile at?

[long dagger]

Stand on the tile and open the map, the name should pop up at the top right

[trim kestrel]

Everyone else seeing the member list empty, here?

[crisp goblet]

Nope

[trim kestrel]

😶 😵‍💫

[inland compass]

List shows on mobile for me

[trim kestrel]

Here, just for you... 😜 A first draft (of my mob farming guide) that I've just hammered out tonight!: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846860078

So it's probably pretty rough around the edges. But I welcome any feedback. Aside from: "give example builds plx!" - they're coming, in time, hopefully.

[pulsar anvil]

good note ill have a read later

[crisp goblet]

give example builds plx!

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, did literally no one at all click-through, yet? 😶

Or just that those who did weren't logged into Steam? (I've wondered how many silent views my guides get...)

[crisp goblet]

Turns out I wasn't signed it, didn't even notice.
But all jokes about example builds aside, the guide looks great!
A few typos and such here and there.
I wonder how well someone who hasn't been following along in this channel would manage to understand the concepts

[lament badger]

For me it opened up in my browser, not the Steam client, and I'm very rarely logged in with Firefox. Maybe that's a possible cause?

[sly sable]

So were you running this in the wilderness to make the mold ground go? And did you choose double stripes of mold because it has a lower spawn rate than moss?

[crisp goblet]

This is all explained in the guide.

Short answers: no, and yes.

[inland compass]

Mold spawns mobs in any biome. And i believe the larger mold ground was to support the unique spawn of infected as they typically spawn in clusters of 4

[trim kestrel]

Ah, cool. Thanks for each letting me know. That is a little heartening, that my other Steam guides may also had more use than the few thousand visible visitors. 🙂

Although, Steam community seems to rank pretty low in the Google results, vs YouTube, Reddit and the (established) wiki(s).

[trim kestrel]

Yes, I've balanced the number of tiles in the demo rainbow farms somewhat towards hitting 90% odds for space optimisation (and neatness).

I'll word ground type spawn surface tile names more clearly in next version.

Is this table too much, with all the notes on the side too...? Readable, at least, right? Though maybe a bit distracting... 🤔

[sly sable]

I'm on my phone so it looks written by ants 😆 but I think it would look fine on a bigger screen

[trim kestrel]

You can tap the pics and zoom in to read ok, though, right?

[sly sable]

Yeah it's fine if I do that

[serene kraken]

is very helpfull thanks for the list

how do you find out this very complicated wit the % decrease chance for more mobs

[crisp goblet]

Game files, and careful testing.. I believe. ZeroGravitas has been teasing the situation apart for some time now.

[lilac gale]

Zero has been testing mob stuff for the better part of a month 8+ hours a day pretty much

I boot Steam up, see Zero playing CK. I close Steam down, I see Zero playing CK.

[trim kestrel]

The max spawns, min tiles required and spawn chances were all extracted (inexpertly) from an asset file (I was given exact instructions how to access).

But I've effectively verified the first two and roughly confirmed the chances. Plus used that number to calculate (and graph) the overall probabilities, for ny number of tiles.

It's a fair point, I'll make a note of how I came across these, specifically.

[trim kestrel]

Wake up, build some weird little test chamber, afk for 8 hours, repeat... 😜

I don't think I've been in for the last couple days... I actually played Overwatch last night. 😶

[fallen rampart]

Thanks for this fantastic guide, appreciate all the work you've put into it!

[trim kestrel]

No problem. Hit me with any feedback, big or small.

[trim kestrel]

I've been having a bit of play with crab shooting galleries, for grinding cavelings. Fun to watch.

I've got a recirculating chamber to slow the throughput and give the crabs more time to recover from odd hits. Also rotating them on a loop to distribute their pain.

I'm thinking about rare mob cramming pile-ups, when leaving and returning. Trying to confine them to exploding out into the chamber, rather than packing the shooting gallery and having a fair fight, killing all the crab. Hence the loop-back there, too. (Not actually tried to test this yet.)

Seems ok, as is. So maybe not going to use electric doors. Which would reduce off-putting electronics. And remove failure modes: door accidentally being attacked, and not being loading in past 80- tiles.

Just having conveyor patterns more robust, but may be over-thinking it, even still...

Any thoughts? 🙂

[inland compass]

Hopefully the crab bubbles won't crash your game lol

[long dagger]

Seems very nice but what if there's excess crabs, prob wouldn't be hard to figure something out like adding 2 bridges and 2 belts facing left here while leaving the rest as is but then there's a chance they may attack the m arms

Idk if they could get clogged with that belt loop since there's no gap, if they slowly back up on that spot specifically then the excess crabs could possibly be moved over like shown

[trim kestrel]

The crabs overflow upwards. When the loop's full, the incoming supply from the bottom push some up, against a couple backward conveyors. Then they're taken up to a spike kill area.

I'll make a little video, when I'm more settled on the design.

I feel like crabs die so easily to spikes (3 hit at the same time) that they may be killable in hard mode that way too (with poison)...?

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. I'll cross my fingers that it's a you thing... 😜 But I'll do a stability/endurance test at some point.

I don't deliberately bait constant bubbles (with infected, etc). So maybe this will be less bad.

[long dagger]

Ooooh, didn't realize where the belts were facing, when u said they were going in a loop I thought u meant a full loop that goes off screen

U already planned ahead, nice

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. When I first started thinking about these kinda farms, I wanted to make like a yin vs yang style setup, with the overflow from opposed sides getting fed to an accumulation of the other mobs.

A neat symmetry, and self regulating. Which I guess I could still do... But with the addition of crabs as a separate feed-in, necessary to kill the cavelings, from range.

.
But, of course, I'd want to try and get it all on one screen, to show it off, best. (Including in time-lapse.)

[shadow grove]

Why do you have this belts? for items that will not fit in the chest?

[long dagger]

the items will loop back with the drill

[trim kestrel]

Oh yeah, good point. That design is better than I realised.... 😅

[trim kestrel]

It was primarily a safety feature, for dealing with the eventuality that the player is over 80 tiles away, when the collision hitbox of the drill vanishes.

To recycle any crabs that get pulled through to the other side.

Ir beyond ~200 tiles, when mibs turn into items, so same happens although I'm not sure they'll get pulled out of invisibility, by spikes...

Or if thet truly become items that the arms will pick up (more speculatively). 🤔

[crisp goblet]

What's your ratio of crab cells to caveling cells?

[wild hamlet]

Wouldn't just making a gap with the belt solve this problem withour having to resort to a loop back to the drill?
(No belt under arm pickup)

[wild hamlet]

^

[wild hamlet]

I get those points but the item loop seems redundant given that if items stop under a arm they will be picked up eventually even due to multiple items being on the same spot

Sorry about the multiple replies...I'm not sure how to Reply multiple in a single message

[trim kestrel]

I'm thinking of trying that on my main (caveling killing) loop. To reduce to one arm picking up.

It probably won't be a problem for returning mobs. They will just walk the right way across the gap eventually.

But one does have to be careful about having a gap like that at the end of a mob collection route. Because that's where all the mobs on the whole conveyor will get placed, if/when you go far away. So when you return, they'll explode out through the pick-up arm and everywhere. Especially if you walk up, so the mobs load in before the collision hitbox of the arm.

[wild hamlet]

So your saying they can glitch past your drills?

The bottom left loop can be closed off solid otherwise

I'm talking about where things were circled in the 1st reply

Come on Zero spit it out...I've seen ya typing for like over 5 minutes

Don't hold me in suspense like this

😋

[trim kestrel]

It's a test setup making use of accumulated cavelings from previous tests, so I'm not running it in continuous mode, yet.

But the attrition rate of the crabs is very low, compared to the number of cavelings. So, I'm thinking the 1k tile crab farm may be enough in general.

There's not as much to optimise with that, for cells, vs naive design. Because crab spawn rate is so low. It's best to just use all of a big chunk of beach sand, that's convenient.

I think if one fed the cavelings in slow enough, you shouldn't lose any crabs, basically.

At the very high end, theoretically, you could get about 5 cavelings every 2.5 seconds, I think. If you dedicated the entire 208 tile radius (530 cells) to optimised mixed caveling spawning. With spawn event cycle of 22 minutes.

You'd definitely need more crabs for that, heh.

[wild hamlet]

Oof...it wasn't even for my follow up...lol

[trim kestrel]

On phone, in bed. 😜

[crisp goblet]

Which timezone are you in Zero?

[trim kestrel]

If you call it a glitch, yeah.

I need to account for such idiosyncracies when making designs for other players to use. When if it were just me, I could nake sure to ve cateful to e.g always teleport into the middle. To avoid edge cases.

Although, normal operation will probably involve going an intermediate distance, to extend the spawn cell grid out... 🤔

And it's near impossible to debug a system like this, once it's in full operation. Full of crabs and brutes. 😬

[trim kestrel]

I'm in my own little space station, a little above geostationary orbit. Currently over the mid Atlantic. But drifting Westwards at just under 2 time zones per day. 😐

I have non-24-hour sleep, as part of my ME/CFS. A typically post-viral chronic illness. Like what about half of the many millions with Long Covid now have, too. (But medical science is approaching that like it's some unprecedented new phenomena, frustratingly.)

It takes me a couple hours to get moving, each cycle. Probably because cortisol is significantly reduced in my illness. Low blood pressure, too (and orthostatic intolerance/POTS for many). So I spend that time on social media and here. 🙂

[crisp goblet]

I don't believe I had ever heard of ME/CFS; fascinating stuff, and I'm sorry you have to deal with it! Thanks for sharing.

[trim kestrel]

It's not even that rare; prevalence will at least 5% (higher after Covid waves). So good chance anyone already knows someone struggling with it, but doesn't realise.

They may not even realise what it is, with a 'mild' case (I'm 'moderate'). Because it's been so ignored or mistreated (as psychological) by most most doctors and health systems.

Hence I tend to link people to MEpedia, as a source of reliable info on it: https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Primer_for_the_public

[serene kraken]

I know the feeling of mistreated/misdiagnosed by doctors, I was misdiagnosed for 14 years over a kidney issue that lead to my kidney being a much worse state than it should of been.

[crisp goblet]

That's rough; counting my blessings right now

[trim kestrel]

Eep. 😬 Yeah. There's lot more potential for improvements in medicine than the general public perhaps realises. (And our UK healthcare provision is headed rapidly in the other direction. 😢 )

I'll try to go back on-topic, now. 😅

[long dagger]

The medical industry is fairly bad, apparently someone mentioned they keep u on prescriptions for income rather than trying to cure whatever patients would have. I've had my share of issue with them prescribing a bunch of meds for me when they didn't know the exact issue. Make sure u find a rly good doctor atleast

[long dagger]

Now going back on topic, u mentioned about making it one m arm for the caveling and city mob loop? U could power the m arm with quick pulses to pick it all up quickly, only way it'd overflow is with unstackables but idk if they'll drop that often

Overflow without pulsing the m arm*

For the last sentence^

[trim kestrel]

How much faster did that overclock the pickup rate? It didn't seem to be all that much from what I vaguely remember you showing me...?

And the issue is that there can be, like, 2-3 items stacked perfectly on top of each other together, e.g. from a Brute.

[long dagger]

It's fairly fast, I can hop on and show a quick clip. I may have shared one before with it picking up wood for me

Planks*

And seeds

I changed the design since then but I can make a small showcase, setting it up in a sec rn

[trim kestrel]

If you could show it picking up multiply stacked items, that's be swell! 😉

OK, I've refocused the content of this graphic, to de-clutter a bit...

... And added a section of notes on mobs separately (any obvious oversights?):

I've not fully spell checked all the rest, yet. But have added some more information about KanSer's mega farm, to the examples section: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846860078

[long dagger]

Seems like it's got about the same speed of 3 regular powered m arms

I could've left that stack of items laying there but I didn't think it through, it kinda evened out after cause of the short enough loop

Nvm, more like 4, removing the items made it slower without me realizing

It's visible before I pick up the items

Could be close to 5 but I would've had to run it longer

[trim kestrel]

Oh, nice demo! Interesting. It really is speedy, eh?!

Might well come in handy dor something. Although simplicity is king, especially when I'll be introducing so many other concepts (in this guide).

[serene kraken]

A bit complex and difficult at first glance but read slowly and thoroughly it's not so bad to understand, you've laid stuff out very clearly. Just quite an in-depth guide, there are a lot of factors that go into it though that I suppose need to be discussed. Very good guide as always though, I might finally get around to making my own mob farms in my new world following advice from this guide.

[trim kestrel]

It's funny. I can never really imagine how big (huge!) a piece of work is going to end up looking, before hand. My aphantasia, perhaps. Or how long it will take. ADHD time blindness, in part.

But then, I probably wouldn't find the motivation to start, if I knew these up front. 🤷

[serene kraken]

Hahaha yeah I can imagine maybe it's for the best.. I often put off things that need to be done because I know how long they will take.. instead of just doing it and then reaping the rewards.

[trim kestrel]

Lol. Just found out that putting slime over a tile that normally gets pulled up by a drill will keep it safe... 😵‍💫

[silk hare]

oh like super glue

[trim kestrel]

🤷 I was thinking of something like that as a suggestion. A kind of floor protector. Transparent (visually and to effects), but stops it getting broken...

Anyway, this was with poison slime protecting lit floor. You'd think that spikes traps might do the same, as a layer atop that can't be drilled...

Oh, and apparently Cavelings (miners) will sometimes decide to mine drills and robot arms...

They didn't before, in a setup identical to one side of this. This was a failure anyway, with scholars healing through poison and spikes and mobs filling up the return conveyor wasn't desirable. But was a stress test, so good I found out.

[long dagger]

Don't they mine away at stone walls too?

[trim kestrel]

Any walls up to stone it is, i think, yeah. But not paintable walls, or harder, I guess.

I'd just not seen them attack automation before. Even when I've been drilling them to death with it, repeatedly.

So, I guess i should be happy that I've eliminated an option I thought I had for making a caveling to auto-sorter farm. And now focus on the crabs and such, for that.

[trim kestrel]

Hmm, scholar's heal beam is apparently interrupted by them taking any damage.

I wonder if that applies to acid. Would make acid under conveyors more purposeful.

[trim kestrel]

I gave your overclocked arm a test earlier . It looks like it won't be any better at taking stacked items off a moving conveyor. As I suspected...

4 tick cycle (using two logic gates):

Seems like arms can't go back and grab items that are still on the tile they take from, if they already passed the mid-point on a conveyor...

2 tick cycle arm (which will be just as fast, if not faster, for static pickup, right?):

Perhaps most useful to speed up the throughput of chest sorters. (At an unknown additional lag cost.)

[long dagger]

Rip

[trim kestrel]

Got the bare bones of my everything mob farm down, hopefully.

Crabs will be on the outer right loop. Killing Cavelings on the inner right. All non-cavelings monsters on the inner left. Fingers crossed.

[long dagger]

Looks like it'd work nicely

Just had a longer look at it, the belt path at the bottom leading the extra crabs over is a very nice idea

[crisp goblet]

Is this 100% mob-v-mob kill?

[long dagger]

If it works as intended and doesn't encounter issues, ye

Dunno if zero already ran the farm for a few hours while near and away from it, will have to wait for results

[trim kestrel]

Need to figure out what mix of spawn grounds I'm going to use and deploy them in a dozen cells, today.

Yes, crabs overflow to monster slaughtering side and urban caveling to caveling slaughtering side.

I should be able to have nobs collected from both above and below this setup. With cavelings split out to the right and monsters split to the left, from every single spawning cell.

Figuring out the routing for that was a headache! #topology 😅

[silk hare]

how good are crabs as a killing mechanism

[trim kestrel]

A tier for damage output. B for resilience. C for effort to spawn them.

[crisp goblet]

Are you also spawning infected on the outer loops?

[trim kestrel]

Ah, you noticed the cloud effect from the mold ground? 🙂

It's hoed and have lit floor on top, so no chance of spawns. It's there to slow the mobs 75%, so they stay nicely on the loop, fairly tight. Only getting pushed off the overflow when there's too many to fit.

[crisp goblet]

Ah! Interesting. I'm anxious to see a full explanation once it's all worked out.

I think I can tell mostly what's going on, but don't quite follow all the conveyors... partly because they're not all completely visible

I suspect we may see a new automation tier in a coming update; I could definitely see them adding things like filters (even if that's just mech-arms you can set to pick up specific things), and I'd definitely like to see a new kind of automated damage, aside from drills. An idea I had that I think could be pretty neat would be a kind of beam weapon, using the staves dropped by the scholars as "fuel" (you'd need to insert a staff for it to work, then it'd lose durability over time).

[trim kestrel]

Oh, or like, a turret that can use certain weapons... Or a minion like that...

Not full automation unless there's a (clever) way to also repair the durability.

I want a fairly early game one-way door, for mob management.

And if the filter arm had 2 tiles reach, that would be swell.

Not sure if I want an automated loot magnet, or not. That would just facilitate spike trap farms. Handy and simple, but not very creative.

[trim kestrel]

This is taking a lot of time to figure out, still... 😮‍💨

And it's going to be a bit disappointing to watch, I feel... with mixing the monsters all together, they mostly kill each other before getting to the slaughter loops.

Not sure if it'll be worth having sentries mixed in with the scholars, either. They tend to just potato until injured or close to player. Am investigating...

[trim kestrel]

Oh, just noticed that every crab bubble gets hit with encumbering presence! Wonder if that actually slows them? 🤔 😆

Is this part of what made you think about them maybe causing stability issues, @inland compass? (A lot of mob-type entities constantly being created/destroyed.)

[trim kestrel]

@primal rapids when you were testing attacking ghorm with mobs, did you get them to hurt him (for sure either way)?

I see him listed in game files with alliance as AttacksAllButNotAttacked. So invulnerable? Or just not aggro'd on?

[inland compass]

yeah everything in the game is an entity. they have a pool of preallocated entities for each type but i assume the bubbles would exceed that pool with many crabs. thus you're constantly creating and destroying entities, and with seeing the slight memory leak in the railcar looping, I imagine something isn't clean cut with that process.

[primal rapids]

I think I never got around to test it, so I'm not sure if it's aggro or damage. If I had to guess I'd say it's just aggro, but if it's damage as well, then RIP pacifist run 😄

[fallow hawk]

So I replaced my stone brick walls with wooden floor since the roots don't grow over them. However it seems like they aren't growing nearly as fast as before. Do I need to dig them up and replant them after replacing the walls?
(Felt like this was a questioned better asked here.)

[trim kestrel]

I, for one, absolutely welcome any technical questions like this, indeed!

It's possible that you've had a case of bugged root growth. If that's still a thing (no patch notes on it) and you're pretty sure, not just quickly eye balling it...

In which case, restarting the game might help.

But I don't see why changing the surrounding floor should affect root growth rates. (Unless there's some very weird interaction with the different floor layers.)

Design wise, are you adverse to conveyors? 👀 😅

Also, you should get the same wood harvest rate with drilling both sides of a single root stump, as you will, there, drilling 1 side of 2 stumps.

Then, you could go significantly more space and drill efficient, if you wanted to. depending on what aesthetics you're after.

[trim kestrel]

WAIT... I don't even have encumbering presence spec'd at the moment!

So what are the orange particle effects for? To indicate the movement debuff effect of the bubbles...?

[trim kestrel]

I've been making some refinements:

• Extra tile of conveyor inside the end of the loops, to stop the scholars jamming up into the corners. (Crabs have bigger hitboxes and flow better.)

• Also, reduced the back wards conveyors on the overflow from 2 to 1. The mold infection was doing too good of a job of keeping the looped mobs from pushing each other off.

• Shrunk the kill loops a little. Arms still seem safe there. Provided no mobs that break equipment are allowed to live long enough to loop around. (Shouldn't happen under normal operation, but probably when partially out of range.

• Fiddled a bunch with trying to get good positions for arms to unload the shooting gallery loops. Difficult to find a safe spot that doesn't jam the conveyor. Impossible to find one that's easy to repair or modify, as the mobs obviously shoot at me and break the arm immediately. (Need invisibility gear!)

• Shuffled auto-sorter a bit. Found I probably only need, like 4 large chests. All the spare gear will fall off the end. And I have an NPC room there, to easily sell all the gear without moving or opening chests.

• Went back to just scholars, so much smaller urban moss spawners, on the (bottom) left.

Sentries are naturally deactivated. They can be woken with e.g. acid damage. But then go back to standby mode, if you leave the area. They also jam up the conveyor more easily.

• Main spawn area design of cavelings going right and monsters left, seems to work fine. I've only half covered the caveling section with conveyors, because they walk out ok. (But slow and probably block a few more spawn events.)

• Monster spawn layout still need to look at in more detail...

[trim kestrel]

Scaling up a bit more. Shooting gallery loops have remained stable.

But my game crashes every 4th time I teleport anywhere. Is that maybe the source of other people's instability? Big scale map load/unload, I guess.

[trim kestrel]

There's rather a lot of spare capacity, lol. 😮‍💨

[fallow hawk]

I was using the chests to insure the materials went exactly where they needed to go. Yet I guess it didn't matter. I still somehow have logs in my plank chest.

[fallow hawk]

So I decided to just hand feed each line a coral log. Turns out one of the saws was just.. being skipped. for no reason. I picked it up and sat it back down. Works fine now. Weird.

[hoary osprey]

Maybe seed in the saw

[long dagger]

prob unrelated to ur issue but if u unload them with it getting fed wood and planks from a line of saws then it could replace the wood stack inside with planks

if u unload it long enough for the stack of wood to be processed while getting fed wood and planks

[trim kestrel]

Can that happen anymore...? 🤔

[trim kestrel]

Demonstration of the kill loops under (accidental) stress test, from teleporting away from the farm for a while, causing all the cavelings on conveyors to be collected onto the death loop. https://youtu.be/Ldd1Cp6yIV4

20 of them only managed to kill 1 crab. No arms were damaged or mobs pushed into the void.

So I'm pretty happy with this design. Mostly need to nail down recommended configuration for fungal ground, now...

[trim kestrel]

Oh, I spoke too soon...

I accidentally super-saturated the caveling kill loop, by standing just outside of it's range, but within range of the spawn surfaces...

And these killed the majority of my crabs. 😢

Slimes broke the arm on the other side too. I don't think there's a way around either of these things. Just have to repair and recover. 😕

[silk crescent]

Oh the humanity of it all.

[trim kestrel]

Wait... I can add a remote controlled automatic door to the cavelings collection line! Because none ever die in the spawn area, there's no loose items on that line (unlike the other).

So I can turn off the tap for repairs and going away. Although, the explosion of mobs on return will be a mess... Probably just leaving it open will be enough. To stop them saturating the kill loop.

And bonus poison application.

[silk hare]

@trim kestrel does your farm have a kill switch to stop it completely

[trim kestrel]

It's not possible... 🤷 😆

The only way to stop spawns is to be beyond ~208 tile of all the spawn surfaces...

Or close in mobs to accumulate and block spawns in each and every 16x16 cell that it covers.

[silk hare]

i see hopefully one day there will be a way

or having cubes with doors

[trim kestrel]

made a sea tentacle farm lul

It looks like the infected double-hit the tentacle each time, kinda cheaty... 😕

Note, this is an extremely expensive/inefficient design for the sake of putting potential drops directly into a chest...

Any suggestions for improvement?

[trim kestrel]

Bonus gif of big larva doing some gardening for me. (As per @floral tendon's tip, some time back.)

[long dagger]

mobs attacking only happens within a certain amount of tiles from the player if im not mistaken, idk if u can make the top part more efficient, prob just gotta make it larger while still within range. only useful for figurines since u dont rly need multiple of the other drops

if prepping a farm for another event like easter then youll just need mobs of the same type/biome so tentacles could be excluded if crabs would drop the same event item

[trim kestrel]

Well, gotta be within 200 tiles to be loaded in, for a start. You thinking less than that? to fight each other? (I can test this fairly easily, now, of course.)

There's tentacle whip too, of course. But octarine and coral wood much more efficient from other sea biome mobs. and 69% nothing, form tentacles, makes them really super slow.

[trim kestrel]

I mean, I'm not exactly worried about easter egg drops, of such. With this farm going (for no more than ~10 hours, here I think):

Another gardener trophy! 🤩

[long dagger]

Nice, u don't rly need that many tentacle whips tho

[trim kestrel]

Yeah. I kinda got the one already... Maybe if you were multi-playing...

[long dagger]

I'm not certain on the range but I think it may be shorter than 200 for them to fight

[trim kestrel]

And I confirmed that mobs don't heal at all when attacking anything. By letting an earlier tentacle attack me, a couple of drills killed it. Which isn't even possible for a shrooman, normally.

.
So, hard mode, spike traps should still kill all slimes, eventually. I think. Because they fully aggro and 'attack' the spikes.

And all other mobs will die, similarly, if they are actively gunning for you, or each other.

More effective than poison.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, RIP (non spike) pacifist run; Ghorm is neither targeted by (Caveling) mobs, nor hit by their projectiles. (And even kills larva, there.)

[hoary osprey]

How about natural larva spike?

[trim kestrel]

Up the Mz.🤷

[cloud imp]

a server for the electronic table? noice

[fallow hawk]

They hurt him in normal. Not sure how many you'd need to be effective in hard mode. Also he still goes nuts and flails about.

[weary pond]

Just curious what this does? And also curious about what you all are talking about 😂 these circuits are confusing basically I’m asking in the long run what are you using them for?

[long dagger]

It was for dmg stacking with drills when unloaded which was patched a while ago

[trim kestrel]

Wow, you dug a waaaay back, eh?

To be honest, my circuit work has been on hold. There's not a whole lot wire stuff can interact with, right now.

The most complex, useful circuit is a very simple on/off oscillator, for chest auto-sorters.

I could build a 24-hour clock, but didn't get around to fully trying it yet. Been chipping away at mob farming.

[weary pond]

The mob farm is what brought me here lol my farms are all old square builds and was curious as to how yours was built

[trim kestrel]

Here's the kill loop (not far up): #977128133142659102 message

And there's a map view of the whole thing with the spawn areas (I've not progressed far beyond that): #977128133142659102 message

[weary pond]

Yeah I don’t think I would have come up with something that intricate that’s a really cool build

[trim kestrel]

Has anyone carefully measured to confirm the amount of health scaling with multiple players, in one world? To add this information to the wiki.

I'm under the impression that it's only +20% per player to boss health? Not mobs. But need to be fairly certain.

[primal rapids]

time to make a new suggestion? 😄 "please allow all bosses to be damaged by non-player creatures"

[trim kestrel]

What do we think? Explains everything clearly...? 😵‍💫

Needs a few presentation tweaks.

[feral ferry]

That is absolutely inspired

[trim kestrel]

Conceptually, it seemed fairly straight forwards, in my head. But then the topological constraints Core Keeper introduces with having to keep Brutes separate, and not being able to cross conveyors, turn it into a noodley mess, heh.

[feral ferry]

I was attempting a more "funnel to one spot by the core" main base idea and I was planning it out like so

everything in 2 game chunks funnelled into spikes denoted in red

and I can confirm that everything does eventually die to spikes with purple slime underneath in hard mode eventually

some things take forever, but it happens

No where near as intricate as your idea, which I'll probably end up copying

[trim kestrel]

Is that definitely without aggro'ing them?

Only found out a few days ago that mob self heal turns off altogether in combat. Need to make a proper note of that in my guide.

Slimes aggro on the traps themselves, but e.g. cavelings need to swing at you or another mob.

[feral ferry]

Sorry, to clarify I mean in the mass farming scenario above for things like moldlings and scholars, but cavelings, brutes, and shamans do just end up dying on their own track

if the scholars end up winning the war so to speak, they'll heal themselves through it if there's more than one

blue slimes make everyone's day real bad though, they slide the other mobs on hit through a ton of spikes

[trim kestrel]

They do got a mean roundhouse kick for a blob of jelly! Fun to watch. 😅

But, so, your caveling miners were drying to spikes and poison, without you getting close to them, then? Cool.

[feral ferry]

did you build your site on the cell grid to maximize your output?

[trim kestrel]

Yes. I guess it's hard to make out, from the illustration (updated here).

Each spawn cell in the main mob spawning area spawns all 9 surface types of mobs with non-biome floors. Then splits the cavelings right and monsters left.

That's the main design consideration that everything else falls out from.

Well, that and the topology needed to access the 4 separate loops in the kill area.

[feral ferry]

Sorry, didn't realize because I couldn't look at it on a monitor until now

It's much clearer at full size lol

[trim kestrel]

Oh, hmm. That's a bad sign, perhaps, for showing this off to others (e.g. on Reddit). Could you not pinch zoom close enough for detail?

[feral ferry]

oh yes, I like looking at things from the entire structure though, that way I can follow everything along without having to move things around

[trim kestrel]

Agreed.

[feral ferry]

for sharing to Reddit and so it's great

[crisp goblet]

Can you include a shot of the raw minimap alongside?

Maybe a legend as well; some patches of the various spawn surfaces vertically along the left side, labeled afterwards in the marked-up version.

[trim kestrel]

(Try again...) How about this?

[trim kestrel]

And this? (To show the spawn surfaces.):

[crisp goblet]

Beaut.

[weary pond]

I like this how do you determine where a spawn cell starts?

[feral ferry]

16x16 cells started from coordinate (0,0)

@trim kestrel actually wrote a guide on this specifically

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846860078

I verified the math based on the data mined in the guide and it checks out.

[weary pond]

Is there a way to see coordinates in game?

Nvm I looked at the link thank you

[trim kestrel]

I do think I need to add more maptool references in my graphics... 🙂

[weary pond]

Sorry I checked out the link that @feral ferry posted very clear now

[trim kestrel]

Cleaner spawn chance graph.

[feral ferry]

As a data analyst/governance worker, I really enjoy the way you put information together

You get a lot of useful information into a small space, which is the design dream

[trim kestrel]

lol! Thanks. If only useful (paid) work was as easy to access as this sandbox PC game. And as flexible in the hours and objectives and with just not doing any stuff at all, a lot of the time... 😮‍💨

.
Anyway, I think this is... done now? 😵‍💫
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846860078

Wrote up the optimal example build in full detail. Plus shuffled stuff about, updated other graphics and added a few more notes.

At mere 5000 words (!!!), I feel like one could get extra course credits for studying this monstrosity... (That I was just going to do quickly before moving onto other stuff, as usual.)

[crisp goblet]

"Proability"

Guide is intense! Great work

[trim kestrel]

Lol, damnit, that's in two graphics! The proability of me making a spelling mistake in any text field without spell checking is pretty much 1. 🙄

[crisp goblet]

Would you even say you have a pro-ability to make typos?

[trim kestrel]

Bah, that would be far too trite... 😜

[trim kestrel]

I'm not sure "intense" is an ideal feel for something meant to help make something easier... 🤔

Anyway. Oops! Forgot the re-write teh introduction, now it has a couple of example builds.

And is everyone else getting this error, if trying to expand the images?

Kinda awkward... Guess I don't share it on Reddit right away, eh?

Moving into a bad time of week for that, anyway. I think. Quite aside from the general die down in game interest (between updates).

[crisp goblet]

Not sure you can avoid being "intense" with the amount of info you're providing

Can confirm errors on the images

[proper coral]

various steam utilities have been wildly slow this week in my experience, could be related

[trim kestrel]

Their image hosting service went down for various aspects of Steam community a while back, for like, a week... 😮‍💨

[trim kestrel]

I've been working up a bunch of feedback/recommendations for the devs, based on my mobs spawning/farming guide findings. Anythings to add/emphasis?: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HbV4r8cGSNDjx6fspcGN2x4YzSG8Mu9cMXWv3RIgfl0/edit?usp=sharing

[inland compass]

i'd kinda like to see the self heal restricted to bosses only. Doesn't really do much for normal mobs, and is some what a waste of processing.

I like how the brutes work, makes things a little more challenging.

Then the really need to go through and homogenize tile behaviors. Why does one tile block X when another seemingly similar tile doesn't. Just seems super sloppy as it is.

I think a mob bait item would be cool, but i don't think it should be automatable. Make it similar to a bomb, drop it on the ground, after x seconds it goes off and triggers a spawn event in a certain radius. similar to the fishing bait table i guess. In theory you could make it an offhand exactly like fishing bait, and trigger a raiding party when the offhand is used. you could then have different bait types for different enemies.

Robot arms interacting with salvage tables would be good. drop an item on it, then all the salvaged parts pop out

I'd like to see money either move away from being item based, or add additional denominations (like a new 1k value coin). I wouldn't mind it just being a number on the character data.

Not related to mob farming: They need to change the way "random" unique scenes are generated. I would say change it to make them spawned at world generation instead of chunk generation. That way you could ensure that the medium maze was spawned in the stone biome. I believe the prefab scenes already have data for min/max radius, so you'd just generate randomly between those. I also kinda wish (even though it would make the map tool obsolete) that the fixed radius locations would spawn with more variability, between a min/max radius instead of exactly on the radius.

[hoary osprey]

Here are my comment
Healing of mob should be disabled on mob except boss, and mobs despawns and then respawn will restore to full health, healing between mob still enable

Spawning blocking should be unified to only block spawning on blocks that prevent character to go through / stand on it( include door), damage character / mob (such as spike) and other mob spawning items

Mob respawning range should be fixed on number of cells but not a fixed distance triggered cells, also please all mobs that not boss when out of range.

Not a comment: transparent tiles and wall should be added in desert (glass made from sand) or crystal biome, likely desert update

[trim kestrel]

Thanks a lot for the input, both! Some good stuff there that I'll definitely include. 👍

Sorry, I wasn't feeling up to wading back into it today. Will get to it soon.

[weary pond]

Was wondering if we’d ever get the opportunity to rotate certain items like 1x3 planters or vending machines to fit against east west walls

[cloud imp]

i dont think so

[silk hare]

why do u say that @cloud imp about rotating

[cloud imp]

i just think it is like that sorry if you dont like my opinion

[silk hare]

naw i thought u had a insight that there was a limitation

[trim kestrel]

I think this kind of thing is maybe a #📋-feedback-suggestions threaded discussion? (Not that there's anything else going on in here. 😆)

[cloud imp]

its a lot of work so...

[cloud imp]

nah

it isnt

its over already

[silk hare]

ye its all cool

[trim kestrel]

Moving a discussion here from CK-media on an in-the-works overhaul of the Core Keeper wiring system: #📷-ck-media message

So, @agile abyss - I'm taking a looking through your YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/CubsYT/videos ... And see you are highly competent with the Terraria wiring system.

Are you aware of my background, there?: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL6o310lEzS9WYvBZsNVy2rLX8PPUkmUiK

[agile abyss]

Yup! I think I've been subscribed to you from 7 years back

[trim kestrel]

😳 Cool. 👴 😅

Did you see I made a resettable binary counter over here, too?: https://youtu.be/k6DIZvPfRys

Which is to point out that I've kinda got some vested interest and cognitive inertia caught up with the game's systems as they are/were. (To preface my input.)

[agile abyss]

Since the logic community kinda died in Terraria, I tried to resurrect it by making tutorials and my own discord server just for teaching people logic

[trim kestrel]

Right, ok. Interesting. That kinda leads into what I was going to say.

[agile abyss]

But right now I'm working on a new game mostly focused on logic gates/wiring, as well as fixing up the wiring system in CoreKeeper

[agile abyss]

that's sick! I'm gonna have to build one of these myself

[trim kestrel]

You got a lot going on, eh...? So communicating with the team via Discord and whatever? Or also in Sweden (with most of them)?

And you workign closely with Max on the wiring stuff? Which he reworked for 0.4, already, on the back-end.

[agile abyss]

yeah I'm from the same city. I know Präntare quite well irl but still need to meet up with the rest of the crew at some point haha

[trim kestrel]

handy.

[agile abyss]

and yeah! Max is the person who taught me how the logic system works so that I can improve it

currently everything I'm doing with the buttons, explosives, new lightbulb textures, no generators etc are just experimental and not official if they'll be released, but I'm sure we'll slowly but steadily increase the circuit system 👌

[trim kestrel]

Heh, so, what was fun about that build, for me, is that:

(a) I was privileged enough to make something new and unique in the game.

(b) I felt like I wasn't supposed to be able to. (Because I had to use the 1-tick pulse glitch to sanitise the logic signals for the memory loops, to stop them oscillating, etc).

That's what I loved about exploring 'hoiktronics' in Terraria: it was not at all a pre-packaged electronics system with a conventional, correct, intended functionality.

More of that was added in 1.3 (wasn't it that number?), with the logic lamps and gates (and other stuff I beta tested).

And a few of my fans were excited to see what I (and Joe, and maybe others) would be able to build with all this even MORE powerful kit....

But we lost interest because there's no challenge then. No pushing boundaries or being naughty with repurposing game mechanics. 🤷

(Also I guess I was probably burned out from my ME/CFS stopping me making any of the content I had in mind, heh.)

And that's why my initial reaction to overhauling wiring (here in CK) is concern. Heh. 😅 And I'm not sure if that's a me thing, because I'm very unusual, or if it applies more broadly to what makes things 'fun' in a game...?

[agile abyss]

My personal favorite part of logic is improving and compacting systems, rather than inventing them, which is why I personally love more stable and intentional mechanics over bugs/unintentional mechanics

and don't worry, I can't promise anything yet, but "overhauling" the wiring may mean adding things like junction boxes and pressure plates etc. Everything that's currently possible will hopefully still be possible later, if not far far more!

[trim kestrel]

The reason that I'm blessed to have a niche here at all, perhaps, and for sure in Terraria previously, as a bit of a tech guru, is that it's not not seen as a a technical game. Like e.g. Factorio is.

So there's not many technically clever players drawn in, who would easily make bumbling old me irrelevant. With building in-game computers and such. And...

(1) I'm not sure it would work very well, from a game marketing perspective, to kind of blend between genres like that (from casual RPG, adventuring, farming, grinding game to move into factorio territory). I mean, I'm well up for that! As a player. I'd love to see it succeed. But, player expectations...?

(2) I'm losing my train of thoughts... 😵‍💫

Like you say, the Terraria wiring community died. Despite having so much great capabilities. Like, virtually everyone who watches a YouTube vid on some mega Minecraft computer build is like "woah! insane... No idea what's happening, anyway!"

I liked to try to make stuff that had utility in campaign playthroughs. Or else, what's the point? 🙂

I guess I'm grumbling towards the end of my incoherent overview rant there, anyway. If you're interested @frigid hinge, too?

But am happy to move onto specifics...

.
Like, the TNT is fun. Very meme-y. But what would be the expectation for player use? You wouldn't actually mine with it, in practice. Too much effort, too expensive, too fiddly.

Unless it let you get in somewhere, or harvest something, you shouldn't be able to. Or, like, cheese a boss that's otherwise too hard.

[frigid hinge]

Very interested and reading everything. 🙂

@agile abyss is the wiring expert in our team though!

[trim kestrel]

And absolutely I'd love to see some kind of junction box in CK, to let us be more flexible with routing. Necessary to make more complex things.

But again, how much does one just copy from the likes of Terraria? I mean, as a pastiche of different games/genres, a certain amount is valid and works great so far! 👍

But I love to see unique implementations and unexpected ways of doing stuff, myself. 🙂

Hence I like the simplicity and power and differentness of the current logic circuit. 🙂

[frigid hinge]

I think Terraria is amazing to look at in the sense: What can we do to improve on their game design and enable our community to work with wiring for a long time ahead?

We have just started developing Core Keeper -- and there's so much potential.

[agile abyss]

with both the comment about CoreKeeper becoming Factorio, and Dynamite not having a practical purpose, I think you're seeing the "overhaul wiring" thing from the wrong perspective. My goal isn't to make wiring neccessary to progress, nor to make them a large part of the core game, but rather just give it meaning and "purpose". Dynamite isn't very practical, but it's fun to play around with, satisfying to explode, and could be used to just play around with your friends which may not be important for progress, but will give more reason behind learning the wiring system in CoreKeeper to begin with

[frigid hinge]

Initially I thought about Core Keeper as "Minecraft x Factorio x Zelda: LttP x Dungeon Keeper"; but the direction is continuously changing and improving, I think.

[agile abyss]

But now that you say it, having structures with TNT on the inside and a wire leading outside so you have to place a switch to make the explosion blow up the hole to a hidden treasure room or whatever does sound like a really cool idea haha

[obtuse star]

i think traps would be cool

something to spice up exploring

[trim kestrel]

I think you're seeing the "overhaul wiring" thing from the wrong perspective.

I mean... I think that's just my perspective of playing a game. I'm interested in stuff that has use.

Maybe it's an old fashioned perspective, or always has been non-mainstream? For sure, there's probably a lot more creative mode focused thinking for the Minecraft generation...?

Mods and such being quite mainstream. When typically I won't touch any, as I feel they'd dilute or kill my interest, after a short burst of use, at best...

.
I assume Core Keeper is interested in courting all generations of gamers, of course? But I do feel there's a pretty strong older contingent (like me and many other I know here). With the retro aesthetic and being a spiritual successor to Terraria, etc.

[lilac gale]

Or more things for my NPCs to get stuck and die in 🙂

[obtuse star]

survival of the fittest

[inland compass]

Safer demolition of tough walls. Like city walls now require 4 red bombs. One accidental explosion, or not getting clear of the blast and its back to spawn for you

Desert biome could introduce non drillable walls that need blasting. Or maybe blasting would be faster than drilling for some areas

[long dagger]

would be great if wiring stayed consistent, currently for larger contraptions the results vary

[frigid hinge]

Absolutely!

That's definitely how we view it.

[agile abyss]

Could you give me some examples of how the results vary? I actually wasn't aware of this so a few examples would help

[long dagger]

had one specific one shared here, ill find it in a min

^

It'd grab an extra item at times, was testing a build to split items which isn't even that big yet it couldn't stay consistent

There's not much u could do with the current tools and it got more discouraging for me to try more builds so I've mainly been taking a break

Cause of the inconsistencies

[agile abyss]

so it's an issue with the Robot Arm, and not the wiring itself?

[long dagger]

im not sure, could be the wiring, the m arms, or the way its loaded when powered

i was adjusting the wiring itself a bit to make it a bit more consistent but itd still fail at times

[agile abyss]

your best option is probably submitting it as a bug report in #915198062148849664

[long dagger]

already did back then, idk if the devs r aware of it

[trim kestrel]

OK, I added to and revised my mob spawning/farming inspired feedback & recommendations dossier, lol (PDF attached, too): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1HbV4r8cGSNDjx6fspcGN2x4YzSG8Mu9cMXWv3RIgfl0/edit?usp=sharing

[trim kestrel]

Oh, I forgot to include a big feedback point!:

Keep adding compelling sinks for loot for (or reason to skill farm) mobs! The large amount of ancient gems and cogs for teleporters has been a great motivation for farming cavelings. 🙂

[frigid hinge]

Thanks @trim kestrel. I have forwarded this to the people working on the loot sink balance 🙂

and the mobs

[long dagger]

im liking many of the suggestions listed here

was thinking about a conveyor changing direction when powered, it may have better use with newer build items but prob not rn

[obtuse star]

could get annoying when trying to run power around

maybe like a conveyor interface under the conveyor that gets powered or something

[long dagger]

Just a separate conveyor type item, keep the current one as is since it's usually common to run electricity under them in builds

[obtuse star]

what if there was like a thing you could put under stuff that rotates it or something though

like arms or drills too

[long dagger]

That'd be interesting but would it be powered with electricity? It'd be a bit of an issue

[obtuse star]

maybe like a data wire or something

with channels

so you could turn it different ways

[long dagger]

Wireless activation within a certain amount of tiles of a special button

[obtuse star]

wireless logic would be really cool

but would probably need some form of distant loading

[long dagger]

I don't think it'd be an issue if it's activated by a player directly and has a short range

[obtuse star]

oh yeah i was thinking like cross map communication

so you could like setup a sensor to tell you if your mining setup has finished or not

[long dagger]

Sensors would be nice but kinda useless atm imo. Preferable need more tools and something better to use electronics for

So far it's mainly just wood farms, mob farms, and drilling boulders

And storage

[obtuse star]

yeah sorting would be nice

like a filter

maybe some large crafting stations that require autonomous input

[long dagger]

I had a filter build working but it manually had to be filled with stacks of 1 item after every 30 or so uses

I had a design in mind for filtering stackable items if they fixed the item stands in a different way but they just prevented it from picking up items from m arms

[trim kestrel]

I'd thought about this, in passing, but didn't think of a killer use for it... 🤔

Although, switching a single piece of conveyor, left/right, up/down could be a way to divert items to two different destinations. In conjunction with some sensing and basic logic...

[trim kestrel]

I like this! Potentially very powerful and flexible. An electronic turn-table. Would it be 2x1, with an input on one tile and the turn mechanism under the other...?

Could that be just in wide orientation? Or would it need to be flipable itself, to vertical, too...? 🤔

[agile abyss]

I'll experiment with this!

We probably won't add things that only make currently possible things easier, but instead things that make currently impossible things possible. Rotating objects with wiring is definitely one of those impossible things that should be possible!

[weary pond]

Flower pots would be nice especially the 1x3 to run along walls but we already have the 1x1 which is fine lol

[long dagger]

Cant have the rotating tool be broken by the drill when being used. The current wiring is very chunky and I don't think there's much u could do besides giving wiring tools some range

[primal rapids]

I'd be glad if, for starters, mechanical doors didn't get broken by mobs, and could be somehow used as mob gates (conveyor through them), but I guess that isn't directly wiring stuff

[long dagger]

Kinda sucks how it needs to have a wall on both sides, would be nice to have something else that acts like it without needing walls. Also don't they lose their hitbox when the player is 100-200+ tiles away? I think Zero mentioned something wrong about it

[trim kestrel]

That's actually a thing I've thought about and brought up in my wiring suggestions summary doc I made yesterday (2 pages) 🙂 : https://docs.google.com/document/d/1f7o1mfCbfF4qbVmRqSjZztUL4wvdr2x-VOEJtBVITjI/edit?usp=sharing

[trim kestrel]

I think that automatic doors might work solidly, now; the one I put on the Caveling collection line of my optimised farm didn't ever let any mobs through. Even when piled up. 🙂

The glitch with doors, in general, losing hit-box was fixed a couple weeks back, or so.

And my suggestion, in that doc, was for more of a drawbridge. As a way to gate gaps. That would be inherently more robust, hopefully.

But I think doors should at least be impervious when open, heh.

[fading nebula]

still playing aint ya? happy to still see it it helps the community out a lot 😄

[trim kestrel]

I am still playing, this is true. 🙂

[south sundial]

wait what counts as "technical knowledge"? REing code to understand systems better or dynamic testing or something else (if REing code counts then by technicality the entire modding community is also technically clever which in terms of terraria would actually be quite a large portion)

[trim kestrel]

Indeed, I do have a very high regard for modders, coders and devs! I think that the cognitive abilities (abstraction and clarity) needed for doing that would overlap closely with the attitude [aptitude] for making very technical builds.

But then, they have a lot of other options for what to spend their valuable brainpower and time on.

Then there's a matter of expectations; neither CK, nor Terraria would be seen as a game with much of a technical angle to it. Not until the Terraria 1.3 update came along with a load of very efficient, purpose made logic gates, faulty lamp, wiring tools, etc. Then very quickly there were smart players making complex wiring, like the Bad Apple animation, etc.

And I slunk away.😅 Or, at least, I reached the end of being burnt out with my ME/CFS borking my Terraria vid YouTube attempts.

[south sundial]

honestly i would say ck could be considered to have a technical angle to it with the whole factorio farming system

[trim kestrel]

For sure. Indeed this thread is all about that. 🙂

But what are prospective buyers going to expect from the store page? Nothing technical in the videos, and only the 7th of 11 screenshot shows a very small drill setup.

Or from favourite streamers (where I first saw this game) playing the early game. Or YouTubers.

[south sundial]

yea i see what you mean.
but for people who truely do see potential in this game, they will go above and beyond and the fact that the developers support this is very nice

for example when i got this game i got it cuz of a few screenshots of the building/placement system. looked pretty cool and i played a few playthroughs with my friends but over time i got interested in modding the game and looking more at technical details

if you want to bring more technical things into the light either something that enhances the electrical system, or encourages and exposes to new players more would be good imo

for example something like minecraft's create mod

that example is a bit extreme though.

i think electrical components should be in some custom generated structure within the great wall so it can encourage a bit of early game exposure though

hovever, i dont think you should be able to craft it until where the table is in progression currently.

[trim kestrel]

Sure. And I'm now fully expecting a CK wiring update putting a stronger emphasis on the technical side. Maybe creative mode at some point (because it's such a popular request).

I was mostly trying to contrast the initial current appearance of CK vs e.g. Factorio or Mindustry, where every screenshot has conveyor spaghetti and it's very clear the technical emphasis.

There's benefits to not doing that too, in terms of introducing technical stuff via the backdoor, so to speak. To players who wouldn't have chosen games for that side. 🙂

[south sundial]

ah yeah i understand yeah its not purely based on technical things

[trim kestrel]

That'd definitely be cool, to tease the technical stuff and also give knowledgeable players an early opportunity to exploit some clever trick.

[south sundial]

yeah my idea for that is the hidden room under the ancient cities in minecraft 1.19, technically accessible at any point if youre cautious and it introduces skulk well

if you know what that is atleast

[trim kestrel]

Not the faintest clue, sorry; I have ~30 minutes in Mincraft, total. 😳

Also, what's "REing" short for?

[crisp goblet]

Reverse engineering

[south sundial]

^

[south sundial]

oh lol i thought since you play terraria and ck and have technical knowledge in them you wouldve played minecraft

[crisp goblet]

Redstone and farming in Minecraft can be VERY technical, and redstone in general is very deep -- and also can make use of many unintended mechanics... surprised you've never gotten into it Zero

[south sundial]

thats sorta what kicked off most peoples childhoods prior to the more modern games

[south sundial]

theres also people who made full on 8 bit computers

custom programming and display

really cool stuff

[trim kestrel]

Am pure boomer when it comes to MC. I came to Terraria via friends, a few years after suspending studies (for bad health) on my second undergrad degree (physics, then systems engineering).

I've seen MC computer videos and such, though.

[south sundial]

from what i know computers havent been made in terraria or ck

i could be wrong but thats what i know from my knowledge of those 2 games

[trim kestrel]

I'm not sure I've seen a Turing machine video for Terraria. But it's actually a lot more powerful than (vanilla?) MC, as I understand it. And certainly @agile abyss Discord server has very advanced technical content on it, for Terraria.

[crisp goblet]

What makes it more powerful, in your understanding?

[trim kestrel]

Terraria's wiring is very fast and dense:
• It runs at 60 tick/s and each wire can have multiple activations per tick.
• No need for repeaters.
• You can stack up to 4 wire colours on top of each other.
• All gates exist as pre-made blocks and e.g. shift registers can be made extremely compact (thanks to faulty lamps).

On the downside, it's 2D not 3D.

Not sure what MC has going for it though. But redstone seems slow...?

[crisp goblet]

Oh, yes Terraria's is definitely more compact. Redstone is indeed slower, though can achieve the same outcomes -- so not sure I'd say Terraria is more 'powerful', certainly more efficient, but depends how you define those terms.

[trim kestrel]

OK, sorry. It depends where the hard and soft limits come in, in practice. But I'd expect the much higher efficiency to also translate to higher capabilities at the highest end...?

[crisp goblet]

Redstone itself, the actual wiring, can unfortunately create a lot of lag when it's used in massive quantities (like when building a computer) as it also interacts with the lighting engine (the wire produces light when active).

On the same system, you're probably going to be able to do much more with Terraria, as a large redstone system is going to get more and more resource hungry the larger it gets

But theoretically, if system resources was not a concern (unrealistic) you're going to be able to do all the same things with redstone

[trim kestrel]

Right. In pure computation theoretic terms, if they can both be used to make Turing complete machines, then they have equivalent 'power'...? (When running the games on a god computer, effectively.)

[crisp goblet]

As far as I understand. Though I'm much more versed in redstone than in Terraria system.

In terms of actual gameplay though, there are some very interesting redstone machines you can make which are hugely useful. And though often "META" designs emerge, you still have enormous amounts of creative freedom in designing your own unique and quirky farms.

[trim kestrel]

That's a good situation to have! And I think that's exactly the kind of thing the CK devs would like to nurture, here. If you have any ideas for what could translate well to CK, I'm sure they'd be very interested. (As well as me.)

[crisp goblet]

It's definitely a thought that's been tumbling around in my head (what MC/Redtsone mechanics would translate well).
I know I'm far from the only CK player with a love of MC so I know and have seen some relevant suggestions.
It's also tricky to consider what would translate well from 3D to 2.5D (I'd argue CK isn't QUITE 2D, as there is some layering you can do, though it's obviously not fully 3D)

[agile abyss]

bad apple animations? haha

talking about me?

[agile abyss]

plenty of people have made entire computers in Terraria, even just in my own discord server

[obtuse star]

i think ive seen at least one basic computer in CK

[trim kestrel]

I mean. It depends what you call a "computer". I made a basic calculator with skeleton hoiks and Diceman one with a digital display... Before logic gates.

Has anyone clearly demonstrated their Terraria computer is Turing equivalent?

[trim kestrel]

Yus. 🙂

[agile abyss]

I guess they're technically calculators, but people have made full on Turing complete computers with processors and everything in Terraria

Haku is the smartest wiring person I know, he also made one

[trim kestrel]

Got any YT links or such? 🙂

[agile abyss]

I almost made one but hard-coded a program in it, so technically it wasn't Turing complete (but would take like a day or two to add)

[agile abyss]

Just ping Haku in my server and ask about his computer haha

might be able to find you some videos

[trim kestrel]

And that's what I mean by 👆 technically minded players who leave me in the dust ("a day or two", heh). 😅

[agile abyss]

https://youtu.be/KmcENKOh678

he has a lot of sick videos but that's one of the computer related ones

with all the new wiring tech that has been invented recently, you could probably scale this up a lot

[south sundial]

sorry for late ass responce i had some personal health issues that sorta suddenly happened so i had to schedule an appointment and wait

anyways i think i was talking about some generated electrical component room/area

i dont have the picture anymore but yeah minecraft in its recent update has like a room with a few things the player could mess with the new "wiring" to learn it

i was thinking a structure very rare but something that could be accessed at any point in the game after you finish the dirt area

maybe one with a automatic door or something

or one showing the delay thing

i could technically mod it in but im lazy lmao

if i have time ill do it and see how it plays

im terrible at ck electricity though so uh yeah 😅

[trim kestrel]

Yikes! Hope you've got everything under control. 😬

For my issues, I may just stop responding, or taper off, for 24h, or so.

[south sundial]

its the 31st?

oh i read that as 24th

[trim kestrel]

It's gotta have an unexpected player death hazard. No question. Well, at least 1 has.

[south sundial]

lol

well that explosion does good with that

the new one

if it becomes a thing

idk if there are any ways to make a player hazard with the current components

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, you could give them a tickle with some drills... 🫤

[south sundial]

oh true

making that not obvious is stupidly hard though

[trim kestrel]

Or open an automatic door to a bunch of packed in mobs.

[south sundial]

you cant exactly put drills inside blocks

[trim kestrel]

I mean, they'd be off and player would turn them on... And be on top of one to throw the lever. 🤷

[south sundial]

i was thinking something like dead mans chest in terraria but chests opening dont emit electricity

i think atleast

[trim kestrel]

I don't think I've seen that in Terraria...? Boulders, darts, tnt and statue traps, sure. Plus mimics, of course.

[south sundial]

youve never seen dead mans chest?

heres an old one from a world of mine

its a rare "structure"

this was in 1.4 but im pretty sure ive seen it in 1.3 too

[trim kestrel]

Is that explosives under the chest?

And chests send a wire activation?

[south sundial]

yeah

theres no button

i never checked with wire

but i can search it up rq

[trim kestrel]

oh. I don't play for half a decade and suddenly EVERYTHING changes! 😜

[south sundial]

oh

its 1.4

whoops

yeah

[trim kestrel]

Not a player proximity sensor? K

[south sundial]

btw tmodloader has also been ported to 1.4

[trim kestrel]

Rip [when dynobot strikes]

[south sundial]

i was impressed by that

i censored it myself lmao

[south sundial]

i had a loooong history with dyno lmao

but anyways yeah i played terraria back in the day, 1.2 and stuck until early 1.3

then covid came and i tried playing modded so mainly stuck to 1.3 until like last year

def not a veteran but also not new

but yeah trapped chests in ck would be godly

[trim kestrel]

It's gotta be done.

[weary pond]

What’s the trick to preventing the giant bots and brutes from spawning in farms ?

[inland compass]

Pray to rngesus

The secondary spawns have a low chance, so you could just drop the 6 tiles per spawn cell, but there's still a chance

At 6 tiles there's about a 3% chance of them spawning

[weary pond]

I need to spawn them in separate cells then because the brutes destroy my conveyors lol

[agile abyss]

have you seen the stuff I've been working on?

https://twitter.com/prantare/status/1563885420756307969

Fredrik Präntare (@prantare)

Experimenting with some new fun buttons & explosives 🧨 that can be triggered by electricity. :)

Game: @CoreKeeperGame
Creator: @Cubus32 🙏🤯🤩

#CoreKeeper #indiedev #madewithunity #pixelart #terraria #minecraft

▶ Play video

Twitter · Aug 28, 2022, 1:45 PM

[silk hare]

i just notice that u can make chain reactions

[long dagger]

New vehicle 👀
I was kinda expecting it for faster roaming in the desert but didnt expect them to add it. It better not be just another boat

#📣-announcements

[weary pond]

Ha! Dune buggy

[long dagger]

Would be nice if they add a few types of vehicles and have upgradable parts that u can try farming for and automate the process unlike the current 2 boats and only upping the speed by wearing accessories which is just inconvenient to carry and switch out

[inland compass]

Add an armored boat would be nice for hard mode

[long dagger]

Ram into sea tentacles to kill them

[inland compass]

A spikey boat!

[long dagger]

I highly suggest adding something like upgrades to the game so there'd be something to work towards cause currently there's not much content imo. Well there kinda is but it's just rly short if u don't count the time used for exploring and traveling

[inland compass]

yeah that's why i don't like the locators

or their availability needs to be tied to something that takes longer to get

[fallow hawk]

Left the game on for almost 24 hours (oops) and now I have a purple slime all the way down at the orange slime spawn point. What a journey it's been on.

[south sundial]

yeah, but i was talking more like a not obvious way to trigger wiring

like a trapped chest or trip wire or something that the player could fall for

[trim kestrel]

I don't think it's physically possible for a mob to walk itself from the wilderness to the central dirt biome. No mobs can move, beyond ~208 tiles away (except on conveyors).

So, assuming no purple slime mobs farms, I'd say this must have been a case of mob teleport bug. 🤔

[trim kestrel]

As Craigins says, for small, casual farms, you'd just have only ~7 tiles of stone moss.

But, for my optimised, all mobs farm, spawning, transporting and kill brutes separately was the main consideration.

See "Example 2" section near the end: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2846860078

There's no need to worry about sentinel spawns, either, if you cover every tile of urban moss with conveyors, so they don't get stuck. But if they do just sit there, it's not a problem either, because they won't slow the spawn rate of scholars.

[obtuse star]

ive had a similar thing happen to me

[trim kestrel]

This is what I've been expecting. Gotta be done, surely... 😅

[agile abyss]

experimenting with that too ;)

[rich belfry]

I wonder if they will make sand slow movement speed. Would make the dirt biome more interesting to have this hazard. Then once you get to desert you finally get dune buggy to overcome the sand hazard

[south sundial]

nice

[long dagger]

Wireless button that triggers those bombs within a few tiles of it

Dunno what else u could do to simplify it without wires

Unless if u let projectiles trigger it

[agile abyss]

don't worry, I'll hopefully regularly upload short videos/gifs of what I'm experimenting with, you'll be informed in no time! 👌

[long dagger]

🍿

[obtuse star]

cant wait for some juicy leaks

[long dagger]

Can't wait to see newer wiring tools from u

[inland compass]

So if i were to add a mob farm evaluation tool to the map tool, what would be a good way to display mob spawn chances?

I'm thinking like click too left, click bottom right, read all the tiles in the outlined area and apply the % chance based on spawn cells

[long dagger]

By reading the map tiles? U may wanna clearify to people using it that the tiles must be visible without conveyors since they'd appear on top of spawn tiles

[trim kestrel]

Oh wow, that's an advanced and interesting feature I'd not contemplated...

But after a bit of at think, I would do it quite simply, by just clicking on a spawn cell. Highlighting it as a solid square to the precise edges.

Then have a pop-up UI box that lists the spawn chance for every mob in the game. Pop up to the right, floating or maybe right bar. Optionally hide, or grey out 0% spawn chances.

I don't see any point in specifying custom ranges, because that will confuse things, adding >100% chances across multiple cells.

We really want players to think in terms of fitting their farms to the cells. Not arbitrary cute little patches, with that random pattern of spike traps that's so popular because search pictures.

You can take a look at my sums for calculating the odds in my sheet, "spawn chance per tile" tab (if you haven't already 🙂 ): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1WPzQ9fh21anccVCQN5KPbstmytgsA4uzFE73GvGn5F8/edit?usp=sharing

[inland compass]

Ah good point. I'll remember to make that a note

[inland compass]

That's a good idea and makes things simpler. I was trying to come up with a good way to say something like 40% chance of 2 and 70% chance of 1 etc, for combining spawn cells. Combining the probabilities was going to suck.

[trim kestrel]

Yeah, yikes! The number of numbers gets overwhelming fast! Just looking at one spawn surface type, with multiple mobs...

[trim kestrel]

Right. It's a nuisance. I think I'll raise this as a suggestion, to have conveyors not show on map, as a compromise. Like spikes don't.

Ideally, they'd show as spawn surface and an arrow symbol, or something? But obviously the current map file system doesn't have scope for that...

[inland compass]

Honestly it would be nice to have an automation layer for map tiles

[trim kestrel]

Problem is, there's going to be a lot of mobs listed, soon, with the updates too (minus hive and snare, here).

[trim kestrel]

That's actually a very smart suggestion that would solve a lot of potential issues. An object layer, effectively. That might store furniture, etc, too. Because you can have only one such item per tile. Might as well include those, right?

Just, not sure how it would render for player... Like, another level of zoom-in would show symbols inside the ground type pixels?

[inland compass]

Probably becomes when you stack layers

[trim kestrel]

Or straight up item (inventory) icons?

[inland compass]

Nah just a toggle button to show/hide the layer

[trim kestrel]

Fair... 🤔

[inland compass]

You can't do 1 layer per item without rewriting the entire map code

Since it is just drawing pngs

[trim kestrel]

All of what we're talking would mean new map and file coding, right?

I was thinking it'd be a second set of png pixel colour codings, for the different placeable items objects.

[inland compass]

Nah just toss in another set of pngs in the map zipfile

[trim kestrel]

That's still new game code. Heh.

[inland compass]

Right but when you have chrysalis with acid and rail and carpet

What do you show on the new layer? The carpet or rail

[trim kestrel]

I guess the floor tiles would just overwrite the ground type in the regular map.

Then rails are in the object layer.

.
Only the top floor tile shows.

I kinda want to say they should remove layering. But that would suck, for aesthetics.

[inland compass]

They'd need to fix the layering to prevent rail and carpet or just show the top most user item vs top most natural item

So layer 1 would be acid slime, layer 2 would be carpet

Or i guess make layer 1 what the game thinks the tile is, for spawn purposes and layer 2 the top most.

I read your comment as inventory item icons to toggle showing on the map

[trim kestrel]

Hmm... 🤔

1. Natural ground and spawn surface layer.
2. Asthetic tiles (inc carpet) layer.
3. Object layer.
   ...? Where electrical wire?

[hoary osprey]

Please separate the function of displaying the spawn chance to a individual tab, allowing selection display of different mobs (like the current set up to highlight certain objects) and, if able, highlight the certain square/grid can spawn selected mobs

[trim kestrel]

So, I think you're just asking (of what we've not already talked of) to be able to disable showing the spawn chance for some mobs, effectively...?

[hoary osprey]

Yes, kind of, and also highlight the tile or grid for effectively spawn those mob

If able

So that I do not need to dig the ground up to find which tile is not really contributing or just not for that mob

[trim kestrel]

That was the first part of what I'd suggested, I believe. 🙂

And, like, in most of the map, all the natural world gen, there's only going to be 2 spawn surface types in any cell. For the most part. No need to filter that, really.

It's only when you start making optimal spawn areas, that you get 4 or 5 + types of mob, and you might want to focus it down a bit.

[inland compass]

So with automation working all over the world, they can cheat with showing those items in an in memory layer. Wouldn't require a new png. But then it gives you information you wouldn't know otherwise (if mobs broke things)

[hoary osprey]

But three mob for each type...

[trim kestrel]

Sure. So, if it's going to exceed the vertical space on the maptool window, you'd want to either be able to let users hide mob types (or be able to scroll, at least)...

I feel that filtering by spawn ground would be more useful and less fiddly (for users).

[hoary osprey]

Filter by spawn ground is also welcome.

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. I see. That could leave map files untouched...

Then, if they were to just simplify how spawning works with layers, so that the spawn surface must be top-most to ever work. You'd have a WYSIWYG situation.

I think my main arguament against that was to be able to have the poison effect without purple slime spawns... But that would be possible if poison worked through carpet (or other floor type, if the layering order were changed).

@frigid hinge's been talking about allowing animated pixel art to show on maps, in @agile abyss' server.

[frigid hinge]

I love the pixel art people are making in the game; would be great if we could animate it too -- interactively even

[silk hare]

oh so like tiles that interact with wiring

[frigid hinge]

Yea

[silk hare]

id love that

[frigid hinge]

It is in our backlog. Not sure when it will make itself into the game, but I am personally hyped about it 😁

[silk hare]

aye me too

[long dagger]

I got an idea for the map art, dunno if it'd be too laggy to add but it's just an idea. Add a special tile that'll be placed on top of the current arts tiles then make a new art piece on top and have it cycle between the 2 on the map

[quick ice]

i think i have the build for the highest melee attack speed for afk mining farms with 180+ mining damage (mining 76+ required)

it utilizes octarine set bonus of low health into atkspd, technically i can push it 0.2% faster by reaching below 1% health but i didnt do it past that point

if anyone wants to use this build but is lower level mining you can swap the skull ring for a topaz ring/ring of rock

just be sure to have a way to reach very low hp safely

[trim kestrel]

Did you try to work in using a polished octarine necklace, for its +7.6% melee speed?

If you needed the mining damage from the Azeos Beak, could you instead switch down to a softer block than Wilderness grass?

[quick ice]

does it affect my xp output if i switch blocks

if not i could definitely work in a necklace

[trim kestrel]

So, it either gives XP or it doesn't. You have to be in the sweet spot, where it's not too quick or too slow to break the block.

But, if you use a minecart loop, over 80 tiles long, you can guarantee not breaking any blocks. So I don't see why not, in principle.

[quick ice]

alright

i think if it cut it down to stone walls i should be able to increase atkspd more

[quick ice]

updated the build, thanks for the advice

[long dagger]

I think it happens when u have too much mining dmg for the wall so it doesn't give xp and doesn't take durability

[agile abyss]

so when referring to the wiki, should I use wiki fandom or wikizet?

[trim kestrel]

Erm, is this in a particular context? You know I'm a wikizet fanboy and contributor, though, so... 😉

[agile abyss]

yeah well before I was using wiki fandom since it's what I use for terraria

but hearing you talk so much about wikizet is the reason for the question-

[trim kestrel]

I mean, wikizet has an objectively cleaner layout (even with the best ad blockers). So, unless it doesn't have the info, you know... 🙂

[long dagger]

it is much neater, can confirm

[primal rapids]

+1 vote for wikizet

[obtuse star]

wikizet looks much cleaner and is easier to use imo

[silk hare]

yes

[regal berry]

Gamepedia was awesome, but fandom bought it up, so I've been kinda prejudiced against fandom because of that

[quick ice]

wikizet goes hard although im wondering how do you contribute

is it just go and try and post information thats not false

or does it get moderated or something

[short hill]

waiting for desert update like

https://tenor.com/view/waiting-gif-23395435

november is gna be like early christmas

[frigid hinge]

😁

[trim kestrel]

Anyone can edit and add pages. Anything bad/defacement will get reverted by @steep pagoda (owner/admin). Which is easy to do on wikis, as a key feature.

If you're feeling timid, you can drop stuff in the official Discord (linked on wiki). And probably one of us will get around to adding it, or something.

[quick ice]

alright cool, thanks

[south sundial]

yo @trim kestrel youre good with game mechanics so uh, could you explain why a modded item that i have being put into a certain drop table causes it to drop different times

for one drop table theres 2 of it

for one theres 3

i have no idea why

[long dagger]

drop rate and amount of drops from the mob may affect it

[hoary osprey]

Will you able to show how you add it to the drop table?

[south sundial]

its through a modding api

i think i figured out the issue but im testing it rn

[trim kestrel]

If you were more specific I might hazard a guess as to what you mean. 😅

Mob drop chances seem kinda weird, like, they don't necessarily add up to 100%, right? (Or am I thinking of something else?)

[trim kestrel]

So, I've been working on filling out a "Mining" wiki page with explanation. Since I noticed that Cysidus has had the very helpful "mining damage reduction" stat listed for each wall type, since forever... https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Mining

This helps clearly explain the minimum mining damage stat for getting mining experience (in exp farm setups). However, what's the exact upper threshold for getting experience from a wall? Is it a flat over-damage value in every case, or something? (The "Sharp sound effect" is way too low for it to be this...)

[quick ice]

if i had to wager it might be some sort of function as in it still either rewards 0 or 1 mining exp, but theres a chance that it does based on your mining damage relative to the wall health

maybe sharp sound is when the function starts decreasing or decreasing rapidly in its probability of rewarding exp, or perhaps a local/global maximum of some sort on the function, or just even any sort of critical value not necessarily in the sense of a hard threshold that determines whether or not you get xp

idk thats my guess

mostly regarding the afk mining farm since i noticed that at a rate of 4 attacks per second i should be getting approximately 10.8k exp per hour afking if i was getting 1 exp per hit, but the rate that i leveled at was far slower

while on the contrary i've been mining out my world and have received exp closer to 1xp/1hit despite having much higher mining damage relative to wall health since i was one shotting the walls

[trim kestrel]

So, with my "ambassador" hat on, I can say that there was a bug with one hitting walls not giving xp, that should be fixed in tomorrow's patch!

So, I'm told that one should now always get 1xp per hit, provided your character has at least 12 more mining damage than a walls damage reduction stat!: https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Mining#Walls

@lilac gale @inland compass maybe interested? 👆

[lilac gale]

At work, I can read/review when I'm off later today if need be.

I wasn't aware the no-xp bug was getting fixed, out of the loop it seems 😅

[trim kestrel]

No worries. just a head's up for something to look out for tomorrow, as I saw you say you'd be checking out the new patch. 🙂

[inland compass]

Read the wiki this morning. Nice that the xp bug is getting fixed. Hopefully they fix the disappearing wall issue when you hold place and punch

[trim kestrel]

Hmm. I've not heard anything about that specifically (and not tested it), so I wouldn't hold you breath...

[south sundial]

wow i never had this this is very helpful for custom tileset blocks lol

[fallow hawk]

So what does this mean in terms of farms?

(From the patch notes.)

[trim kestrel]

I don't know. Any boring sounding backend mechanics change is likely to have unpredictable effects on complex systems.

I've not AFK'd my farm(s) yet.

I'm imagining this is client-server sync. Netcode stuff. So maybe any issues will be multiplied up for multiplayer.

I saw some pics of caveling(?) mobs supposedly 'spawning' where they shouldn't, in game discussion. Can anyone clarify that, if it's a thing?

[fallow hawk]

I'm not sure about cavelings, but not long ago I posted a poison slime that had some how ended up near my dirt biome base, despite no spawn tiles being present.

[fallow hawk]

In fact you commented on it. Here.

[trim kestrel]

Right. Old patch issue of mob teleporting. Which I hoped has been fixed, from what i've heard.

[inland compass]

aside from automation, objects in the game world only "exist" within about about a 2 screen radius around the player. as the player moves through the world, objects are loaded into the Unity Entities from stored data. Then when object goes outside of the range, the data is unloaded from the Unity Entity back into the data store. There was a slight issue with this that you would encounter after hours of gameplay.

this would break my rail loop farming/mining after about 4 hours

ohh i wonder if that's the same thing as the "mob teleporting" issue, it could have been an issue updating the unity entity with bad data

[fallow hawk]

Possible, given how long I tend to leave the game running.

[trim kestrel]

• Fixed a number of invalid memory-accesses causing crashes.

I feel that's what this was. Like, I felt like the mob data was being inappropriately accessed, slightly corrupted, in effect, occasionally.

But notes also point out Sentries, specifically. Which made me wonder if my crashes had all been either in the sea biome or in range of farms with them.... 🤔

[trim kestrel]

Oh, @inland compass, were you asking about the wall stack deletion bug earlier? I gave it a quick try with stone walls, and didn't have any blocks deleted at all, after 10 minutes. So I assume it was fixed...

[crisp goblet]

Today's hotfix:

Fixed it so that most Caveling creatures only respawn from their corresponding Caveling Moss. Previously, some Cavelings still respawned in their corresponding biomes, which was intended to be removed, as the Moss is now the only intended way for respawns for most Cavelings. This affects the regular Caveling, the Caveling Shaman, the Caveling Brute, the Caveling Farmer, and the Caveling Hunter.

@trim kestrel looks like an update to your mob guide is in order

[trim kestrel]

Yup, was just commenting, in game discussion, that it shouldn't be too bad to adjust.

Will just remove a few lines from one table... Oh, and the graphs... And maybe some random mentions....

[fallow hawk]

I didn't know this was a problem.

Also I wonder if my map issue has been resolved.

[serene kraken]

guuyss.. how do i create a perfect circle in a large map ?

[trim kestrel]

Google a pixel circle generator (e.g. for minecraft) and follow it very carefully, tile by tile, in game. 😅

[trim kestrel]

New in the previous patch.

[long dagger]

So was the issue found with wiring yet or will it perhaps be worked on after the desert update? It could've been skipped in bug reports but im curious if work is being done on it yet, ik it'll take a while but I just wanted to ask.

[fading nebula]

i just saw your mod in a pic how is it coming along?

and are you doing it alone

or whit more people

[agile abyss]

When it comes to your exact suggestion with the robot arm, it hasn't been a priority to us as there's a lot of issues with the current wiring system.

[long dagger]

I noticed it wasn't consistent cause of the output from the mechanical arm, I'm not sure if it's the arm thats specifically broken but fair enough. Hope it gets fixed soon

[fallow hawk]

The blue lights are blue and the black lights are.. far less dark than I had hoped. Shame.

I was looking forward to being able to cast darkness.

[south sundial]

in terms of programming its just me

but theres someone helping out with music and another with sprite work

[fading nebula]

nice im planning on making a game but i cant do pixelart or music XD so im searching for someone and ive been searching for so long but no one wants to

also nice work

[south sundial]

cool, all you have to do is make something unique and people will show interest. Then just dont be an a**hole

[south sundial]

thx

just if you do start a team please dont take advantage of everyone, i am or atleast try to be very nice and understanding with the artist and music composer

[fading nebula]

same i know a couple people that want to help but they cant do pixart either

[obtuse star]

why dont you just not use that style

[south sundial]

?

style

[obtuse star]

pixel art

[south sundial]

oh

yeah true

@fading nebula why not vectoral art

[fading nebula]

ohhh

[obtuse star]

you can also just learn it

[fading nebula]

ill look into it

[fading nebula]

i tried for a couple months

[obtuse star]

just because you dont know something doesnt mean you wont for the rest of your life

[fading nebula]

but i did it whit boxes in the end

and maybe i will do it

great idea!

trying

[south sundial]

i used to never do art

and i kept trying space art lol

ended up half decent

you just have to not give up

[fading nebula]

i now

know*

i will make a game i did stuff whit boxes because i can do that but its a lot harder

also

unity or unreal engine 5?

i did unity

but UE 5 is good to

[south sundial]

depends

[south sundial]

btw in case yall wanna see this is my best (wip)

[fading nebula]

its honestly really good

but ill try it but still think ima use unity and pixart

but im not sure at all

[trim kestrel]

"Black lamps should suck up illumination" - now there's a fun #1019964660214153326 !

[austere kelp]

Bruh

Just discovered there are sub-chats in the chats

[trim kestrel]

Do you mean the forum structure in the new feedback section? 🙂

It'll be interesting to see how that pans out. As more is added. It already looks kinda overwhelming. Ans the lack of image previews in the main view is a bit sad.

[austere kelp]

well, a little

[gusty epoch]

Yea it could use improvements but I still think it’s better than the old channel lol

[regal berry]

You can suggest improvement in #1019964660214153326 :P We're open for any suggestions to make it even better :)

[gusty epoch]

I just mean Discords implementation

[frigid hinge]

That's actually doable for us. The indirect lighting is spreading via a heat/energy diffusion equation

So we can do the same thing, but negated, with black lamps

[inland compass]

Should make the crystal biome a frost crystal and require heat sources to survive. If the physics calcs are already in the game

[frigid hinge]

Oh that's actually a fantastic idea. Problem though is that indirect lighting model is screen space, meaning that only some of the lighting is simulated (near the player's frustum)

Should be possible though

[inland compass]

And maybe make it like starving on normal mode, just a debuff. But hard mode can add a dot element:)

[gusty epoch]

Put this wonderful idea in #1019964660214153326 so I can vote on it 😛

[inland compass]

Done!

[inland compass]

Sure is quiet

[trim kestrel]

I kinda finished figuring out all the main mechanics, I guess (so been busy writing up more basic stuff on the wiki instead)... 🤷

I've also been holding off using this thread due to expecting @swift axle to make a new automation & mechanics type channel. Which keeps being talked about and would let new players actually see it as a place to ask technical build questions. 🙂

[inland compass]

i just remember threads have an expiration after the last post, at least they did originally

so i guess we need to ping the thread every few days

[primal rapids]

as far as I understand, the expiration will only affect discoverability, as it will archive the thread until someone messages again

[trim kestrel]

I remember Bridie doing something with that setting, after this was started. It was default 1 day, but made... Indefinite?

[south sundial]

impressive, you managed to kick start this thread lmao

[inland compass]

yeah it disappeared from my discord and i panicked. so thankfully it just archives

[south sundial]

i gave up on trying to patch every single cheese btw (there are way too many and i dont have that type of time)

[fading nebula]

i can bugtest

the bugs find me

[south sundial]

i saw like 4 seperate on malugaz alone it was sad

[fading nebula]

and ill report em

[south sundial]

nah sry, i dont have that type of time as i said

theyre prob all in the wiki if you want to try yourself

[fading nebula]

not all

not all for sure

[trim kestrel]

Oh, looks like it will have been a week, then.

[trim kestrel]

You mean, like the boss range deadspots?

[fading nebula]

thats so funny

i still dont know why its like that

i do but i dont understand

[south sundial]

uh i saw a few

one is serroh's afk guide

one is the one where you just go in a boat or smth

another is just cutting off the sides and sticking to the wall

theres like 4 or 5

[fading nebula]

a lot is patched

larva can break hive walls

[south sundial]

larva can break city walls at this point

[fading nebula]

a larger range where you cant dig

[south sundial]

jk

[fading nebula]

they could

it would be handy

[south sundial]

they cant right

@trim kestrel

theres no wayu

nah das cap lmao

[fading nebula]

XD

also

Zero nice work on the wiki

[trim kestrel]

Thanks.👍 It's a lonely endeavour. No help and no thanks most the time. 😐

[fading nebula]

if you need help just ask me

[south sundial]

whats been updated lol

[fading nebula]

im not a good player but its still fun

[trim kestrel]

You good at wiki editing? 🙂

[fading nebula]

never tried

first for everything

😄

[south sundial]

im good at markdown

if you know what that is

but im also busy asf the next few weeks

[trim kestrel]

I've done bits before, but it was still an ongoing learning curve...

[fading nebula]

im young and dumb and i love it

[trim kestrel]

https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Special:RecentChanges?hidebots=1&limit=50&days=7&enhanced=1&urlversion=2

Lots of stuff never added...

I need to put boulders up next, I think. Nothing on those at all, really.

[south sundial]

goddamn

the grind

[upbeat gazelle]

@trim kestrel Thanks for your hard work 🙏

even though I only read the wiki for the fishing loot tables

[fading nebula]

@trim kestrel Nice work i just looked and the links could get some fixing and the foods are a bit buggy but the wiki looks a lot better

[south sundial]

@trim kestrel lol typo

[trim kestrel]

I make a lot of typos... Thankfully, anyone can just go fix the obvious little errors. Even without an account. 😜

[trim kestrel]

Some links broken? And what foods?

[fading nebula]

I dunno rn cant chek

[south sundial]

bro what are the odds of a caveling randomly killing like a slime and it dropping

lmao

i just walked along the ghorm track trying to find ghorm resummon area and a caveling just kills a slime and oh wow there it is

fights fine but theres one issue, why tf does he not spawn blue slime

[trim kestrel]

one of the 2 I found had been pre-dropped by a Larva killing slimes, I think it was.

[spark token]

Hey I plan on buying the game as my system is working again, I've been playing it on my brothers computer can I transfer my character and world over? Cheers

[inland compass]

https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Save_data

[spark token]

Thank you very much I'm currently using his steam account, I plan on using mine with cloud save would it overwrite the saves?

[inland compass]

most likely. do you switch computers a lot? is that why you use cloud save?

[spark token]

No I've had to repair mine that's why I've been using his but I would like to use cloud saves for this game as I've had a lot of random crashes and issues with the game not saving, I'm worried that it may corrupt it and I've come so far

[inland compass]

cloud save would really make that worse

cloud save is good when you bounce around computers

it syncs files between installations

[spark token]

Ahh I've never actually used cloud saves, I'll just manually back up the saves

[cloud imp]

so now tell me...
what is this channel for?

[trim kestrel]

Alas, tis nout but a thread...

It's been setup, and mostly used, for discussion of more involved game mechanics. Wiring, automation, mob spawning, world generation.

[south sundial]

If you think you are very skilled and i mean very skilled at ck and especially combat and movement in ck, dm me (i need some balance testing but for some of the most skilled since the difficulty is still meant to be very hard, just fair for people with a ton of skill).

top 3 will test (i will turn this into a competition since i want to do this right the first time)

reply here or dm

[trim kestrel]

Speaking mostly for myself, I'm not sure you're asking in the right place, here... 😳😅

[south sundial]

@gusty epoch told me this place has skilled players

[gusty epoch]

I figured y'all were skilled

Figuring out all this stuff thru testing and lots of fighting lol

[trim kestrel]

Figured out all the ways to cheese every problem. 😜

I've never beaten Omoroth legit. 🤷

[long dagger]

Who even did beat him legitimately

Besides the 0.1%, u gotta atleast grind some max hp from other worlds

[trail badger]

its a one time legit thing.. then its full cheese for the level of hassle

[crisp goblet]

Like the Wither in Minecraft; I'll beat it legit once, then every time after I'm sticking that mofo in some bedrock.

[long dagger]

Lol, idk if they fixed it yet but the wither is or atleast was harder on bedrock than Java

[crisp goblet]

I believe that's still the case.. but I stick to Java so I'm not sure

[remote thunder]

me😎

[gusty epoch]

noice

woop wrong chat mb lol

it stays

[south sundial]

no life goddamn

[trim kestrel]

I'm just editing the wikizet (for a change) and wanted to check I'm right with this, off the top of my head?:

Respawning Azeos directly after a fight takes 12 minutes. 10 minutes for the floating soul to disappear. Which can only happen while it is off player's screen. Then another 2 minutes further cool-down before the bird bosses' shadow reappears.

Also, if anyone fancies helping out with the wiki, I would appreciate help getting up the rest of the images for the paintable objects: https://corekeeper.wikizet.com/en/Paintable_objects

Carefully following the current file naming convention, expanding the sprites by a factor of 4, cropping, assembling some from sprite sheets and uploading. I can provide the extracted assets. 🙂

[south sundial]

the shadow needs to reappear?

@gusty epoch check your no soul cooldown mod

does it still make you wait 2 mins to resummon azeos

[gusty epoch]

I had the shadow appear a few moments after the orb disappeared using it so

I don’t think that’s a good representation of how it works tho

[south sundial]

well you didnt mess with shadow length

so

[lilac gale]

Yes. The shadow needs to reappear before fighting the boss again. I'm not certain it takes 2 minutes though

The orb can disappear while the player is on screen, I afk under it

It also has an audio noise

Or did at least

[eternal oar]

Hello, how can i change my characters name in the files?

[trim kestrel]

Thanks. 👍 I guess I should take the time to retest. I had play-tested before, but can never remember precise details...

[trim kestrel]

There's no way to rename characters with manual file manipulation or standard mods...

However, this stand alone app, which cleverly probes memory while the game is running, can rename a char: https://github.com/RussDev7/CoreKeepersWorkshop

I've used it on my own. And generally helped it's dev with testing and feedback. 🙂

[lilac gale]

I'll take the 15 or so minutes to do a recording for you

did not check the phone before sending lmao

[trim kestrel]

😮 You mad lad!

[lilac gale]

We can get it down to the second for how long it takes too, cause given it still works how it used to when the acid cheesed spawning it would spawn immediately upon being able to do so.

[trim kestrel]

The acid glitch was supposed to be fixed, I believe.

[lilac gale]

place egg down on the ground

it immediately gets consumed on spawn ability

Also, I just killed it twice

it's like 5 min timer with a 30-45s delay

I can upload the raw as an unlisted for exact times if you'd like

5 min timer is very much true

20 sec delay

[trim kestrel]

Yus please!

Oh, so I guess they must have listened to feedback and cut the time a bit. Pretty sure it used to be over 10 min. 🙂

[lilac gale]

it was 10 minutes before for orb yes

they decreased it when they added Omoroth

I just had not timed it

[trim kestrel]

Is the cheese spot still there?

[lilac gale]

The acid?

No it was removed

I tested that immediately after patch

I don't know of any other cheese for the boss

I never did it

[trim kestrel]

No. X tiles down and left, to stand without getting hit or aggro'd or reset fight.

[lilac gale]

ah, yea I did not try that

[gusty epoch]

I tried a thing, big larva try to attack the soul orb but can't break it lol

[lilac gale]

Am uploading the raw currently, should be done pretty quick considering it shouldn't be that large a file

[lilac gale]

It takes up tile spaces so I wouldn't be surprised if the game considers it a mob entity of sorts which is what triggers them trying

[gusty epoch]

I was hopeful but skeptical it would work

Still fun to watch them try

[lilac gale]

Give you a brief desire to boot the game back up lol

Man I need new content to sift through

[gusty epoch]

yea idk I still haven't done sea biome lmao

[lilac gale]

Really pacing yourself there champ lmao

[gusty epoch]

was doin those mod things but kinda burnt out on that as well lol

[lilac gale]

Video of the orb audio + the timed delay between orb disappearing and boss spawning

@trim kestrel it's processing the HD, which doesn't matter, but here is the raw file https://youtu.be/kZlyeUB0Es4

Don't mind my random blabbings, I forgot my mic was plugged in

[cloud imp]

i know this is lore channel stuff but what if:
you kill all three titans and then the core becomes evil and you must defend these orbs from destruction (the mobs from the biome will come ) first azeos soul is saved and he fights with you then omoroth he fights with you and as last ra-azar

[gusty epoch]

I have a feeling but hope not

too predictable

[cloud imp]

would be epic though

[hoary osprey]

The core won't become until you tried to give the soul to the core and tried to teleport to overground, and will be instead send to a field to fight the final boss

But the problem is when will the final boss come out, with sand biome or with crystal biome?

[cloud imp]

at the point where all bosses theyve planned are in the game

[south sundial]

ra azar?

what are you making up lmao

[south sundial]

also " the mobs from the biome will come" sounds horni ngl

[cloud imp]

isnt that the desert boss?

[south sundial]

oh

[cloud imp]

ra-akar

[south sundial]

idk where you got that from