Level 6 Battleship

[sturdy bison]

There's currently no battleships between dreanought and bismarck (leander and town don't count cause they're cruisers and they kinda suck) so I propose to add the Ise clas battleship at level 6. This class is considered a late dreadnought to early battleship, perfect as a bridge to bismarck. it would have more firepower, health, and versatility than a dreadnought, but less speed and overall size than a bismarck.

Length: 219.62 m
Draft: 9.03 m
Speed: 25 knots
Health: 7.32
AA: 0.38
Torpedo Resistance: 35%

Armament:

• 8 x 14 inch guns (mounted on 4 twin turrets)
• 6 x AA rocket launchers (irl each launcher had 30 rockets, but maybe 2 each for a total of 12 would be balanced)
• 4 x aircraft (can be same as Yamato for simplicity)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_battleship_Ise
Note that the game would use the Ise after its 1943 conversion which included greater speed and aircraft capacity.
Here is a blueprint: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9f/Ise1944.png

[vast lotus]

8 14 inchers would be almost even with Bismarck

[sturdy bison]

the two rear turrets cannot fire forwards nor backwards. they can only be used broadside

the bismarck is also faster and has more hp

[alpine flicker]

bro lvl 6 nobody will use them imo

[sturdy bison]

wdym?

like no one would use this ship? I personally think it’s pretty good for a level 6

[final grove]

i don't think a hybrid battleship is th eright addition hee, since Ise has the same amount of guns as mismarck, only being 1 in smaller, adn double thebismarck's aircraft capacity

I think a better choice would be the Kongo class or QE class Battleships

[sturdy bison]

the kongo class is faster than ise, has 8 x 14 inch guns (similar to bismarck), and 8 torpedoes. it's also longer and thus has more hp than the Ise

kongo would be better than Ise and be nearly equally matched with bismarck

the QE class battleships have 8 x 15 inch guns (same firepower as bismarck), 4 torpedoes, and has comparable speed to Ise

of these options, the Ise is the most different from bismarck and has the least firepower

essentially, Ise is the most balanced of these options because it offers less firepower than bismarck (remember that the two rear turrets can only shoot to the sides leaving the rear exposed), it's slower than bismarck, has less armor (torpedo resistance), and less hp. the only advantage it has would be an extra 2 planes, although they are much slower compared to the bismarck's planes.

[final grove]

kongo has a config without torpedos i think

both qe and kongo were modernized without torpedos

kongo is literally ise with less planes to balance it

because we don't have a battlecarrier line, ise would work as an lv7 for such a line

[sturdy bison]

the modernized kongo has 30 depth charges instead of torpedoes

which is still good

[sturdy bison]

ise is not good enough for level 7, bismarck is superior

[final grove]

and based on how this game works, firing angles arent anything, because you can turn on a dime and inertia nad ruddershift mean nothing

[sturdy bison]

no but it leaves your whole rear exposed

and it has less resistance and hp and less speed

the kongo is basically just japanese bismarck. its guns can fire from all angles, it has planes, and it has depth charges/torpedoes

[final grove]

depth charges aren'treally necessary you know

you can just remove them for balance

[sturdy bison]

but then you would break the realism

[final grove]

give it 6 planes and it fit perfectly at lv7

[final grove]

This game is NOT realistic

[sturdy bison]

but that would break realism too

[final grove]

look how the ships turn, and how subs surface and dive

this game is not realisitc in the least, so that's not a good excuse

[sturdy bison]

also you need variety, the kongo is just another normal battleship. ise is different cause its a hybrid carrier

[final grove]

but we don't have a hybrid line yet

[sturdy bison]

even though it's not completely realistic, squirrel still strives to add as many realistic aspects as practical

[final grove]

so it will just set up the future problem of creating ships above and below it

[sturdy bison]

the point is that the Ise would be balanced at lvl 6 and would give the battleship line variety

[final grove]

that dosen't mean you give anything it's real complement

i don't see kirov having grenade launchers

or 055

[sturdy bison]

grenade launchers are useless against ships

its like machine guns, they do nothing

[final grove]

submarines exist you know

they are capable of asw

[sturdy bison]

grenade launchers won't hurt a sub lol

oh you mean anti-sub mortars

squirrel plans on adding those

[final grove]

uh yeah i guess you could call it that

[sturdy bison]

thta's what they're called. grenade launchers are different

[final grove]

MB ive been playing too much modern waships

the real terms slipped me for a sec

but anyway, most ships don't have their accurate armaments

for example no ships have their secondary guns in the game

[sturdy bison]

but it's as close as practical

[sturdy bison]

they do, it's used as automatic AA

not manually controlled

[final grove]

yeah but AA wasn't their sole purpose was it

where are my montatna's DP 5inchers

[sturdy bison]

but in game we're using it for that because otherwise it would get very complex

[final grove]

exactly, you can use the same logic for not giving Kongo Depth charges

or you could add something older like the british Orion or Iron Duke classes

[sturdy bison]

but adding depth charges is not hard or complex. they're already modelled in game

[final grove]

but giving Kongo 30 is impractical

[sturdy bison]

so just reduce it

but what would make bismarck better than kongo? kongo would be insane at level 6

[final grove]

either way depth charges are barely used in this game so not giving kongo any isn't really a problem

[sturdy bison]

lol no, they're so good!

[final grove]

give kongo less hp, longer reload, and only 1 plane

[final grove]

only if you are in a small ship

the opportunity you get to use them in say, a fletcher is very rare

[sturdy bison]

reload depends on caliber, so 14 inchers are faster than 15 inchers. hp depends on length it's not made up

[sturdy bison]

i use depth charges more than torps against subs tbh

they're great at close range

[final grove]

fair enough

bismarck is 30 or so meters longer than kongo

[sturdy bison]

Ise is just a worse kongo lol

[final grove]

speaking of fletcher and realism

[sturdy bison]

yes, but Ise is also comparable to kongo in size

[final grove]

where is fletchers 5th turret

this is a disgrace

[sturdy bison]

yeah idk lol

[final grove]

it's been 3 years ive been asking for it

[sturdy bison]

ask squirrel

[final grove]

hm

i just don't think a hybrid bb is the right option really

[final grove]

i have

he said something like 'fletcher is good enough i don't think it needs a rebalance'

[sturdy bison]

you need balance though. a full blown bb would rival bismarck

[sturdy bison]

hmm, i could ask him too

[final grove]

Orion or the first KGV class is also a good idea

they had 13.5 inch guns but both had 10 of them

[sturdy bison]

lemme check rq

[final grove]

oh wait i've got it

Dunkerque class

8* 13.5 inch guns

[sturdy bison]

poor town gonna get destroyed lol

[final grove]

smaller calibre, but worse damage than bismarck as most battleships of the era were pretty resistant to it

[final grove]

should be downtiered tbh

get leander outta here

and give me graf spee or a county at lv6

[sturdy bison]

dunkerque has all guns at the front, allowing it to shoot a full salvo at bismarck without exposing it's weaker sides. it could technically beat bismarck

[final grove]

and the dunks were about 40 meters shorter than bismarck

[final grove]

yes, but as a balancing factor it gets no plane

[sturdy bison]

it has 2 planes irl though

[final grove]

we can always choose to take creative liberty

and ignore that completely

[sturdy bison]

do how will it defend against subs?

[final grove]

just like fletcher's 5th turret

[final grove]

that's the neat part

it won't

[sturdy bison]

that's useless

[final grove]

exactly

it's forced to be used in fleets by this

[sturdy bison]

that would be terrible though lol

everyone just gonna use essex

[final grove]

so a solo dunkerque can get shut down pretty fast even though it has decent dpm because of the faster reload

[sturdy bison]

or honestly the ideal would be to maybe have a heavy cruiser at lvl 6

[final grove]

graf spee my beloved

problemo solved

[sturdy bison]

it's not good enough imo

also then we would have german ww2 ships at both lvl 6 and lvl 7, i think squirrel prefers different nations when lvling up

although town and leander are both british

[final grove]

oh i know

south carolina class

12 inch guns, 8 of them

in the samea rrangement as bismarck

[sturdy bison]

its american

[final grove]

yeah

you can't satisfy all the check boxes at once

[sturdy bison]

no more american ships

unless its very unique

[final grove]

crazy work

[sturdy bison]

what about the mogami or tone class from japan?

they're fast, got huge torpedoes, plenty of planes, and decent guns

[final grove]

i think mogami being the heaviest armed heavy cruiser in the world at that time is too much for lv6

[sturdy bison]

but it's going up against essex lol

[final grove]

10 8inch guns and i think 16 torpedos

[final grove]

so is everything else at the tier, and nobody has nerfed essex yet

[sturdy bison]

because why nerf essex when you can just buff everything else lol

[final grove]

yet nothing else has been buffed

county class would work at lv6, 8 8inch guns and 8 torpedos

[sturdy bison]

well i mean squirrel is busy with voxmaxa rn, and he is generally very hesitant when it comes to rebalancing things

[sturdy bison]

british though

[final grove]

or the admiral hipper class, same guns, 12 torpedos

[sturdy bison]

i like the hipper class, but it's german

[final grove]

there are no other major nations left at this point

[sturdy bison]

japan ig

[final grove]

yeah but everything they made was either overkill or garbage 😭

case in point Mogami class

[sturdy bison]

lol, i really think that tone or mogami would be good at lvl 6. 8 inch guns have pretty bad range

[final grove]

also in point yamato, which was both overkill and essentially useless except as a plane magnet

[final grove]

still more than town, and it's a heavier broadside and wit hthat amount of torps they would be op

[sturdy bison]

yamato was a decent ship, but had outdated AA and japan couldn't really afford it

[final grove]

exactly

and an iowa would beat it either way because superior rangefinding

[sturdy bison]

town is garbage though

[final grove]

always has been

[sturdy bison]

mogami or tone would be very solid lvl 6 ships

essex still wins on range, but up close the cruiser could win

[final grove]

for a cruiser the only other real option is maybe a french or italian one

for italy we have the Zara class

[sturdy bison]

they generaly had dinky light cruiser though

[sturdy bison]

dont know that one

[final grove]

8*8 inch and no torpedos

tehy were planend with torpedos

but they were removed

[sturdy bison]

oof

here we go, mogami: 37 knots, 10 x 8 inch guns, 12 x torpedoes, 2 planes

[final grove]

or the french MN Algerie

same as zara but with 6 torps

[sturdy bison]

that's not too bad

[final grove]

oh yeah wai titalians alos had the trento class

again same as zara but 8 torps

[sturdy bison]

if mogami is too good then get tone, it's like the same thing bu with 35 knot top speed and 8 guns rather than 10

[sturdy bison]

that's pretty good

[final grove]

36kt speed and 2 planes

[sturdy bison]

hmm i like that

[final grove]

that turret arrangement is painful

comes to me in my nightmares

[sturdy bison]

how so?

[final grove]

4 guns

[sturdy bison]

lol tone looks funny

[final grove]

all in front

exactly

god forbid i see that thing

[sturdy bison]

would be unique though

[final grove]

i feel like the torpedo armament ont hese is too good

12 torps long lances tooo

[sturdy bison]

mogami is good though too

[final grove]

would do stupid high damage

[sturdy bison]

normal turret arangement for mogami

[sturdy bison]

yeah

[final grove]

but too many guns and same amount of torps as tone

[sturdy bison]

ok then what about tone? funny turrets, crazy torps, and 2 planes

[final grove]

Trento/Algerie is a compromise

[sturdy bison]

true

trento sounds cooler than algerie

[final grove]

i mean we could just ask squirrel which one he prefers

eyah cause 2 more torps

[sturdy bison]

my favourite options would be :

1. tone
2. trento
3. mogami
4. algerie

[final grove]

@sage zephyr
Tone class heavy cruiser (8x8 inch, all guns forward, 12 long lance torps, 2 planes, 35 kt)
Trento Class Heavy Cruiser (8x8 inch, standard arrangement, 8 533mm torps, 2 planes, 36kt)

which one do you think would fit at lv6

tone is japanese, trento is italian

more axis powers representation

i feel like alg and mog are underpowered and overpowered respectively

these two are a nice compromise, and tone's torpedo strength can be modified to balance it

[sturdy bison]

yes, also in terms of length, the tone is 189m while trento is 197m so trento would actually have a bit more hp (though not much).

also if you have the time, what do you think about https://discord.com/channels/847143438939717663/1467650208337891339

[final grove]

It's a good idea, I can't suggest anything rn because i lack the time lol

8 melera's seems like a lot though, for a heli ship it can defend itself pretty well

maybe something like the Caio Dulio would be nice

[sturdy bison]

the andrea doria class bb?

[final grove]

no

the cruiser

mb the destroyer

[sturdy bison]

lol there's like 3 ships with the same name

[sturdy bison]

so the horizon class destroyer/frigate?

[final grove]

ye

[sturdy bison]

which level would you suggest that?

[final grove]

lv7/8

it can be good torp spammer

because it has fast reload mu-90s

so less tubes, but low dmg/fast reload combo

[sturdy bison]

the mu-90s do less damage than the mk54 on burke. also what sources say that it reloads faster than the mk54?

[final grove]

i was talkin from balance pov lol

[sturdy bison]

offensive missiles are canister launched exocets or otomats 💀

only 2 torpedo tubes

breh this is worse than burke 😭

[final grove]

mu-90 reload still classified

[sturdy bison]

but only 2 torpedo tubes, even with fast reload will never match 6 on burke

[final grove]

the idea is less tubes but very very good reload

like 3 seconds

so you can spam

[sturdy bison]

but that would be insanely unrealistic lol

and you still face the issue of practically no offensive armament

[final grove]

fair

[sturdy bison]

it's also shorter than burke, so less hp

[final grove]

hm

[sturdy bison]

looks cool tho

[final grove]

yeah funnel design is w

[sturdy bison]

yes i like it

just don't see where it would fit in game

cause the destroyer line is already pretty much filled

[final grove]

we need more modern destroeyrs tbh

[sturdy bison]

otherwise you would have to buff zumwalt, 055, and kolkata to bump each of those up a level and then put something in lvl 6

but that gets complicated

unless squirrel considers frigates as a different class and allows destroyers and frigates at same level

[final grove]

like a fletcher-->Gearing/Sumner class-->light destroyer--->light destroyer etc. etc.

[sturdy bison]

gearing is american though

[final grove]

kolkata line is supposed to be cruisers

i mean they did give a few gearigs and sumners to pan asian nations i think

[sturdy bison]

i know halland from sweden and hamburg from germany were pretty cool 50/60s destroyers

[sturdy bison]

i think you're right about that. would have to check

[final grove]

uss haynsworth was sold to taiwan

an becamae Yueyang

allen m sumner class

[final grove]

ooh yes

[sturdy bison]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halland-class_destroyer
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburg-class_destroyer

they've got some crazy anti sub weapons

[final grove]

halland would be dope as lv5

professional sub hunter

[sturdy bison]

yeah lol

[final grove]

that can also defend itself

[sturdy bison]

8 guided heavyweight torpedoes

and anti sub mortars

[final grove]

yeah

hamburg could be good lv6/7

less guns but exocets and 4 torps

[sturdy bison]

hamburg has 533mm torpedoes, depth charges, and anti-sub mortars

[final grove]

also a carrying capacity of upto 90 mines

😭

[sturdy bison]

lol

imagine a destroyer with mines XD

[final grove]

peak

[sturdy bison]

35-37 knots too!!!

[final grove]

lublin oudated

[sturdy bison]

would be a very solid fleet anti-sub ship

[final grove]

yeah

[sturdy bison]

combine one of these with any other air defense destroyer and your good to go lol

[final grove]

the line topper would be type 26

oneo f the best modern asw ships

[sturdy bison]

oh the new frigate?

yeah love that thing

[final grove]

yeah

[vast lotus]

Scharnhorst

[sturdy bison]

my country gonna get some of those type 26s

they look awesome

[final grove]

nice

for the lv8 we could have the udaloy class

or if no russian stuff spruance class

though udaloy is soviet

[sturdy bison]

spruance is american though -_-

soviet = russia (in terms of mk48)

udaloy would be very good though

[sturdy bison]

for which rank? lvl 6?

[vast lotus]

Yuh

Or Alaska

[sturdy bison]

alaska is american

scharnhorst has to torpedo tubes

no*

[vast lotus]

It’s a battleship

9 11 inchers

[sturdy bison]

i'm in favour of either Tone or Trento cruiser for lvl 6

cause they have a nice assortment of guns, torpedoes, and planes. they're also both pretty fast (35-36 knots)

and to me it would make more sense that the evolution of Town, a light cruiser, be a heavy cruiser

[vast lotus]

Tone is basically a slightly buffed town

[sturdy bison]

and then that heavy cruiser gets surpassed by bismarck, a battleship

i don't think it's "slightly" buffed. it's better in every single aspect

better guns, more planes, more torpedoes, better torpedoes, faster speed, more hp, more AA etc

[vast lotus]

8 inch guns aren’t gonna compete

Also 6 floatplanes 💀

[sturdy bison]

well you would give it 2-4, not 6 (cause essex has 6)

8 inch guns are good for it's rank

essex only has 5 inchers, and town only has 6 inch guns iirc

[sturdy bison]

just gonna put this message for squirrel here so he can see it cause I think all my chatting kind of hid it lol #1467657338839236720 message

[final grove]

Scharn would be far better than bismarck

more smaller guns would be more dps+6 torps + plane

the real problem here is that bismarck is terrible

[vast lotus]

9 11 inch guns are not beating 8 15 inch guns

[sturdy bison]

i agree, however i think that tone or trento would better fit level 6 and would avoid having two consecutive german ships in the same tree line

[final grove]

considering how armor works int his game, and that scarnhorst can fire 6 guns bow on as opposed to bismarck's 4, and has torpedos, in a close quarters fight scharnhorst will always win unless the player is braindead

[sturdy bison]

but the damage difference between calibers is just so large. and the bismarck has more hp

[final grove]

won't the faster reload of scharhorst compensate

[sturdy bison]

well how fast would the shells reload and how much damage would each one do?

[final grove]

anyway why use a battleship with only 8 big damage but slow reloading guns whne you can use one with 9 smaller guns that do less damage and reload faster and has torps making it much more versatile than bismarck

Scharn was quite a bit faster too if i remember

[sturdy bison]

bismarcks' shells in game deal 0.69 damage each and have a reload time of 13.8 seconds

[sturdy bison]

scharnhorst was 31 knots

[final grove]

hmm

[final grove]

33 max and bis was 30 max

[sturdy bison]

wait where does it say 33?

[final grove]

uh wait

[sturdy bison]

i think bismarck is 30 and scharnorst is 31, so not a considerable difference

[final grove]

nevermind mb it's 31.5

i thought hte whole doctorine of the scharnhorst class was to outrun everything you couldn't outgun

hmm

[sturdy bison]

and that it did

31 knots was very fast in ww2 for a battleship

most british ships could only go around 23kn - 28kn

[final grove]

yeah

crazy how bismarck managed to get to 30 though

[sturdy bison]

but for in game, what would you put the 11 inch guns for damage and reload?

[final grove]

uh i would say 9 seconds and 0.45 damage per shell

they are still battleship calibre, albeit just barely

[sturdy bison]

calculating dpm rn for both

bismarck would be 24 dpm (if my calculation are right ofc)

scharnhorst would be 27

[final grove]

yeah

[sturdy bison]

but like irl the scharnhorst's shells wouldn't go through the bismarck's armor

[final grove]

and we aren't even looking t the torps

[final grove]

because armor dosen't exist int his game

either way irl you only needed to destroy the superstructure to disable a ship

[sturdy bison]

lol the bismarck shells do 0.69 damage each while iowa/montana do only 0.60 damage XD

not sure about this logic lol

[sturdy bison]

but that's armoured too

wow yamato does 1.09 each

i mean technically you could add any ww2 battleship/heavy cruiser at lvl 6 and just nerf of buff it until it's balanced cause already most of the realism is pretty much out the window

i still think that tone or trento would be nice. they're faster than scharhorst

the 6 inch guns on town do 0.44 damage, and for some reason the essex 5 inch guns also do 0.44 damage. what's going on here?

@sage zephyr sorry for ping but why do the 5 inch and 6 inch guns deal the same damage? i don't know the specifics about armor penetration of anything for each gun, but i would assume that the 6 inchers on leander and town to be more powerful than the american 5 inchers.

also what do you think about adding either Scharnhort, Trento, or Tone to lvl 6?

[final grove]

thats what i wanted to do with kongo

real prob here is bismarck is bad for it's level

it's only gimmick is big damage and big hp, but battleships are among the least played at higher tiers

unless you are in a fleet of course

[final grove]

yeah that's the best pick

[final grove]

Kraut magic

[sturdy bison]

honestly we just got to pick which ever is coolest/unique looking and seems like the most fun to play

[sturdy bison]

bismarck should get buffed

i think most ships in game should get buffed honestly

[sturdy bison]

only yamato and iowa are good for battleships

i personally prefer yamato to iowa cause it has better range and can 1 shot anything with a full broadside. the planes are also pretty good at taking out subs cause of how slow they are lol

also just realised i pinged you three times, sorry lol 😅

i also think the way that damage works should be changed. like rather than just having a flat amount of damage that each weapon deals, i think a system where ships that historically had armor could reduce the amount of damage they get. ik it doesn't make sense yet, i have to refine it a bit (i'll make a forum post)

[final grove]

That's fine

[final grove]

Angling should work

i play Wows, so i angle instinctively

[sturdy bison]

oh same lol

[sage zephyr]

because they're currently modeled as shooting 5in shells. I will add fixing this to my TODO list.

[sturdy bison]

do you have any plans as to the town/leander situation? throughout this thread we have suggested numerous lvl 6 possibilities which would all be competitive, and would allow the town to be dropped down to lvl 5. idrk what the best course of action is

[sage zephyr]

I'm not planning to change their levels. I might buff them to make them competitive. Regarding new ships, I'd rather add very unique ships (like a repair/medical ship - the Bethesda), rather than a slightly different hull with slightly different turrets.

[sturdy bison]

alright, sounds good 👍

[final grove]

that's fair, and totally your call as the dev, but I'd argue more variety is necessary in terms of ship lines

like an aa line, dedicated bb line, SSN and SSGN lines, etc

ASW line and more

[alpine flicker]

so like the tigoranda??

or whatever its called

or not unique enough

[sage zephyr]

the ticonderoga is not the most unique ship idea I can think of

[alpine flicker]

ok

[alpine flicker]

what abt a aircraft carrier sub or smt i tlked to Duck a lil while go they said "i400 is potentially planned for mk48"

[alpine flicker]

lol Duck i didnt @ u how did u see that

D
U
C
K

QUACK

[sage zephyr]

i400 is on my idea list, yes

[vast lotus]

Isn’t that basically a Zum

[sage zephyr]

it's closer to a Kirov/Type055/Arleigh Burke

[vast lotus]

Wait, so how is type 055 and Zum different?

[sage zephyr]

Zumwalt has more stealth and better guns (and some other, less significant differences)

[vast lotus]

Can we potentially get the IRCPS hypersonic system to replace the LRLAP guns?

The lead ship is currently being refit for hypersonics

[sage zephyr]

probably not, since the guns are iconic at this point, but isn't there a submarine that carries those missiles?

[vast lotus]

Block V Virginia I believe

Also the guns aren’t that iconic, they were literally never used lol

WAIT

Level 10 Block V Virginia class sub

6 hypersonic missiles

[sage zephyr]

I mean iconic in game. they reload very fast.

[vast lotus]

4 mk48 torpedoes

[vast lotus]

Ah true

[vast lotus]

Would this be unique enough?

@sage zephyr

Slightly larger than a Seawolf iirc

But very nearly as stealthy

Actually it’d be the same size as a yasen

[sage zephyr]

I'm considering the Astute sub as well

[vast lotus]

Astutes are very small

A hair bigger than a skipjack

What if you added them both?

One for people who like to ambush 212 style and the other for people who want a yasen type boat

Actually let me make a post

[final grove]

I wouldn't think Tico is the best idea, especially because we already have a lot of american ships in game

ROKS Sejong the great is a good choice, a very american-y design though, but it is sometimes classified as a heavy cruiser

Slava class is also good but we have kirov and the current russia situation is a thing

[sturdy bison]

Astute for the win 💪

[final grove]

as an SSN with 6 tubes i think astute should have 6 spearfishes that do very high damage but have a comparatively slow reload

missiles are more of a maybe

[sturdy bison]

the astute would be very powerful against other subs since it would have 4 decoys, stealth similar to seawolf, 30+ knot speed, and spearfish torps which deal a little more than mk48s and travel at 80 knots. the only issue is that it lacks anti-ship armament aka missiles

the virginia would be far superior at anti-ship combat, but would lack in anti-sub. both subs are very competetive, but are better in different aspects. it depends on if we want an SSN, or an SSGN

or both

[final grove]

i think we need ssn and ssgn lines

Ohio-Triomphant-Virginia

as ssgn

[sturdy bison]

i agree that both virginia and astute should get added. i like the triomphant class but they don't carry cruise missile irl

[final grove]

and Akula-Type 096-Astute-Seawolf

for SSN

[final grove]

my bad triomphant is an SSBN

[sturdy bison]

type 096 is ssbn too

[final grove]

did i type 096

shi mb

i meant 093

[sturdy bison]

checking rn

it seems to have 6 torps, no stealth, 30 knots top speed. hmm what level would it fit at?

its noise level is the same as the old soviet victor class from the late 60s 💀

[final grove]

china doing china things

'submarine is submarine'

[sturdy bison]

that thing is gonna wake up the whole ocean lmao

hmm the new type 095 chinese sub seems decent though. i think it's still udner construction though

supposed to have vls and torps

[alpine flicker]

it has decoys tho it would open a completly diff style of play

[final grove]

there are a lot of ships with decoys

but none of them have it in game do they

if decoys for ships are implemented, tico wouldn't be really special

and besides you don't answer the question, Tico is american, and we have too many american ships in the game as it is

[alpine flicker]

And?

[final grove]

Variety is a thing you know

This ain't wargaming title where the majority of stuff is american

And if you want tico just play mk49 it's already there

[alpine flicker]

Mk49 is boring now tho

[alpine flicker]

Im not American btw so im not wanting it because its American ship

[sturdy bison]

unless there is no comparable alternative, american ships are generally not going to be added because we already have so many

an exception is the Besthesda class hospital ship cause there's no other hospital ship in the world that is as fast nor as cool as Besthesda

[alpine flicker]

well if theres a alternative very simlar weapons then i want it in game

[sturdy bison]

certain japanese and korean large destroyers have similar armaments. there's also the upcoming japanese ASEV destroyer which will be very heavily armed. many of these options are all as good, if not better than the ticonderoga class.

[final grove]

I never said you wanted it because it was american

I said we need more variety because other countries are under represented

[final grove]

Exactly