kinda sounds egotistical tbh
#The SM situation
obtuse ferry
upper edge
I won’t say much but Pledis was on the brink of bankruptcy when SVT debuted and they were big before Pledis was acquired. I don’t know what hybe is trying to say with this infographic but 
safe herald
It’s basically Hybe trying to lie and make themselves look better even though they don’t need to really try that hard cause people know groups under Hybe’s success but not because of Hybe necessarily
It is giving “they made themselves super successful but I bought their company so imma say it’s my company’s achievement. Yay me”
hallow radish
As much as I dislike Hybe getting involved with SME, I kinda hope it will somehow weed out some of the SME management BS that gone on. Like we all know that the all kpop companies do shady/underhanded things, but what I'm hoping is that all this attention/drama will somehow end up helping make the industry as a whole be forced to make some changes. I'm not holding my breath, but a girl can hope.
safe herald
Yee changes def need to happen
hallow radish
In the end I think SME and Hybe should be separated for ALOT of reasons. But also I still hate Kakao and want them to go FAR away (I'm still salty about the spotify thing)
Took out like half my playlist
indigo bluff
Hmm... As much as I will side eye hybe for making it seem like they were the reason for making them bigger... The statement is not kind of false tho... If the word regional here means east/south east asia then there are not incorrect
Like they started charting in billboard Japan from 'clap'
But they don't chart the billboard global, billboard 200, billboard excluding US, billboard canada and Germany, digital song sales before 'ready to love' was released
I could be proven wrong from world albums and world digital songs charts.... But even loona cover of sistar "shake it" has top the charts
So as a carat myself i don't get the insulting part about it really... As they are one of the biggest group in k-pop with the greatest catalogue of music
robust jewel
Seventeen was already successful and global stars before Hybe they even had a million dollar selling album before Hybe acquired pledis like Hybe doesnt get to take credit for Seventeen’s success
indigo bluff
Yeah hybe definitely can't take credit for that...let me set that straight... If we are talking about the sentence then... everyone has different metrics to judge someones popularity... For some it could be tiktok or twitter... For me it's charts and the range of online impressions in different regions, countries and ages
Anyways let me change it back to the topic... Hybe and Kakao needs to leave sm alone...sm really don't need any of them to be bigger
If it goes towards kakao... Sm could potentially be used as a cashcow for kakao for their own ventures... Most likely the artists may not get any say over their music and concepts and they could make them work harder for more output
Whereas if it goes to hybe... They will definitely takeover the company... They may tell that they don't have a say in other labels but I'm not believing that after nuest and gfriend. They most likely will disband the older groups without even questioning it...and the sm concept will definitely get muddled by hybe
cursive furnace
Companies get money from fans but the majority comes from investors and shareholders.
soft solstice
Companies get money from fans but the majority comes from investors and sharehol...
But that’s not sustainable? The point of making a business is to get sustainable income to generate profit. Money from investors are not profit.
upper edge
But that’s not sustainable? The point of making a business is to get sustainable...
yeah
obtuse ferry
Companies get money from fans but the majority comes from investors and sharehol...
investors and shareholders are important to the business of a company, but the consumer is the most important part of the structure itself because without them there would be no profit or revenue for the company, its employees, investors and shareholders
eternal nexus
Companies get money from fans but the majority comes from investors and sharehol...
consumer profit is the main priority to businesses and that does include investors and shareholders. Without a stable consumer profit, a business loses everything and shareholders will back off from continuing their support for the company
cursive furnace
But that’s not sustainable? The point of making a business is to get sustainable...
Money from investors is important as money from customers as without it you can can't expand.
cursive furnace
investors and shareholders are important to the business of a company, but the c...
Consumers are an important stakeholder but they are are not the only one, employees, investors and shareholders all have to be considered in any decision.
obtuse ferry
Consumers are an important stakeholder but they are are not the only one, emplo...
Yes but consumers are your main market. Without consumers, without customers, you have nothing to stand on
You can’t have your cake and eat it too
cursive furnace
Yes but consumers are your main market. Without consumers, without customers, yo...
Consumers are important but businesses start from capital be it from personal investment or from a bank. Your right in saying customers are important but investment is also important as you do anything without the means of making businesses.
obtuse ferry
Consumers are important but businesses start from capital be it from personal i...
The business won’t matter if there is no profit thou. I’m not saying that investment and shareholders aren’t important but it wont matter in the end if there is no consumers/customers, the most vital part for a company to survives either than employees
Investors invest because they see a possible profit, shareholders buy shareholdings because they too see a possible profit
cursive furnace
The business won’t matter if there is no profit thou. I’m not saying that invest...
But it is the case of the chicken chicken and the egg. You can not have one without the other. Investment is important to companies but so is customers, both provide income for companies and allow survival and growth. Now say if its a co operative the relationship is slightly different
obtuse ferry
But that’s only because there’s a market for it with customers
If there is no profit, no customers, then these investors and shareholders will pull out
cursive furnace
In the sense you have greater customer and employee involvement
obtuse ferry
CUSTOMERS and EMPLOYEES are important to the business
They are the reason the business/company exist and is still standing
Again without them there would be no investors and shareholders
This isn’t an opinion it’s a well known fact in business
No customers equal no profit
cursive furnace
But that’s only because there’s a market for it with customers
Only in co operatives where they have s direct stake
In the business such as with waitrose
cursive furnace
They are the reason the business/company exist and is still standing
I agree but that doesn't mean that there important for all businesses
cursive furnace
As if you set labour at the right level
And the conditions are set right people have not choice on where they work
Factor in globalisation
obtuse ferry
The reason it’s one of the leading retailers in groceries in the UK is because of its speedy checkout process
cursive furnace
And you have a utterly replaceable workforce because you set up where it is cheapest
And pay as little as possible
cursive furnace
Where people buy things
It is but its mostly importantly different to other businesses
As when the company has a good year the workers get a bonus
cursive furnace
The reason it’s one of the leading retailers in groceries in the UK is because o...
If where going by checkout speed lidle is one if not the most speedy
obtuse ferry
It is but its mostly importantly different to other businesses
It’s a business where people buy things, it’s a business in which got popular because people liked what they were doing because of their staff, it’s a business that because of its popularity could have gotten more investors and shareholders. Everything is connected and one should not be undermined for the other but you should also acknowledge the power a consumer has over a businesses life cycle
And even then at the end of the day, profit is the main goal. Profit given by customers
cursive furnace
It’s a business where people buy things, it’s a business in which got popular be...
Why did you think I mentioned stakeholders
All thing must be balanced for stability
And for cost benefit analysis
obtuse ferry
Not when you undermine the power that the consumers have. Not when you ignore that business relies on the consumer to buy their product. I never disagreed that investors and shareholders didn’t play a big role in business, what I’m saying is that employees and consumers especially are the businesses life blood. There is no argument about that
No matter how you want to reiterate it, profit is a business’s end goal. Consumers are the reason a business survives in the first place
Without profit there is no business, no investors or shareholders
This is not an opinion nor theory but a fact in business
Consumers matters
No matter how much you want to argue about it, this is the truth
cursive furnace
Consumers matters
Consumerism is an extention of globalisation and I would say Consumerisms importance varies with the cost of items in question. The world of high inflation and stagflation puts the reach of Consumerism rather shorter than its original birth in the sixties.
cursive furnace
Not when you undermine the power that the consumers have. Not when you ignore th...
This has been a very Interesting thought provoking discussion 😊
obtuse ferry
I didn’t even mention the fact that small business don’t have the privilege of having investors nor shareholders but the reason they survive is because of customers who like what they do and always come back
Reiterating again that consumers matter way more than investors and shareholders
cursive furnace
I didn’t even mention the fact that small business don’t have the privilege of h...
Yes and no, investment can come from oneself or from banks as long as they have a scheme for small businesses
obtuse ferry
Do you just mean making a business from your own hard work and money and then gaining profit from said business with the help of customers
cursive furnace
Reiterating again that consumers matter way more than investors and shareholders
What drives drives consumerism then? The drive for profit which goes between re investment, shareholders and investors.
cursive furnace
Do you just mean making a business from your own hard work and money and then ga...
No I mean putting your own money into a business.
obtuse ferry
What drives drives consumerism then? The drive for profit which goes between re...
If you’re talking about my autocorrection then that’s the only time consumerism is brought up, but consumerism is the protection or promotion of the interests of consumers. The growth of consumerism has led to many organizations improving their service to the customer
The drive and growth of consumerism can be attributed to politics and economics, not investors and shareholders
obtuse ferry
No I mean putting your own money into a business.
So making your own business with your own money by investing in said business which will then lead to a possible profit from said customers to make that self investment worth it and to pay it out if you got a loan for said business
cursive furnace
So making your own business with your own money by investing in said business wh...
Yes
obtuse ferry
Then the customer/consumer still matters in this situation because without them your investment is in vain and you will go bankrupt and in debt without a large turnout
Investors and shareholders wont matter if there is no stable profit from consumers
cursive furnace
If you’re talking about my autocorrection then that’s the only time consumerism ...
You can exclude the finalisation of the global economy as a reason for the increasing importance of shareholders, investors and stakeholders.
obtuse ferry
You can exclude the finalisation of the global economy as a reason for the incre...
You mean consumers, cause again, without them the shareholders, investors and stakeholders will be for nothing and won’t matter in the end
cursive furnace
Then the customer/consumer still matters in this situation because without them ...
But to put a cat between the pigeons what about utilities?
obtuse ferry
Without consumers, there is no business for an investor to invest in, for a shareholder to having holdings in, for a stakeholder to have stakes in
cursive furnace
I will continue this later after work
obtuse ferry
I’m just gonna end this conversation because at this point I’m repeating myself over and over again because you can’t understand the fact that a business’s main goal is to make a profit which they get form consumers/customers. And if they don’t get said profit, it won’t matter if they have investors, shareholders or stakeholders, because the company will be defunct because there is no money and the investors/shareholders/stakeholders will pull out or try to sell their shares for as much as they can get them because their is no money coming out do the business
Without consumers, there is no business. They are the most important part of a business’ life cycle either than employees
soft solstice
Money from investors is important as money from customers as without it you can...
Yes you can. The point of a business is to get way more than your initial business model and investment to the point where it basically becomes a money making machine without the help of any other investors. Why? Because you are your own investor at that point.
soft solstice
Consumers are an important stakeholder but they are are not the only one, emplo...
No.. That’s IF said business goes public. If it’s a private business then they don’t have share and stake holders
soft solstice
Consumers are important but businesses start from capital be it from personal i...
I mean.. Ofc initial investments are important but without income rolling in from what you’re selling, you’ll run out of business in no time. Just take an example from most startups
soft solstice
If there is no profit, no customers, then these investors and shareholders will ...
Yes
soft solstice
I agree but that doesn't mean that there important for all businesses
Wdym? The point of doing and starting a business IS to sell to customers and or clients. Otherwise, what is a business for? Lol
But think abt it this way @cursive furnace : If you are in investor in a company. And said company is not making any turnovers in like 3-4 years time. Why would you waste and burn money in said company when you can invest your money in another company that will have a faster turnover rate?
tender vault
I agree but that doesn't mean that there important for all businesses
I’m sorry but…are you really trying to argue that consumers aren’t important in K-pop…? I’m starting to think you’re ignoring common sense because you just want to win an argument 
There is no need to bring up other examples of businesses like supermarkets, that’s completely irrelevant to this discussion. We are talking about K-pop, specifically K-pop companies, and it’s obvious that they can’t operate without profit from the consumers who buy albums, stream, etc…
Sure, investors and stakeholders are important but what’s the point in running a business if you can’t make profit? 
Anyways I think we should end that topic here because I don’t want us to derail from the main topic of the thread. 
obtuse ferry
I’m sorry but…are you really trying to argue that consumers aren’t important in ...
Tbh I was thinking the same thing when they kept ignoring my explanations by either diverting the conversation or bringing up unrelated topics
safe herald
SM created a website
The tweet to show It is SM https://twitter.com/smtownglobal/status/1632622178293383169?s=46&t=r_Qpa2wXhIH4MOi8RUAikA
Twitter
Although right now there doesn’t seem to be it in English (unless I’m missing it)
tender vault
The tweet to show It is SM https://twitter.com/smtownglobal/status/1632622178293...
"save sm" please-
uneven field
next thing you know it's gonna be a gofundme
wintry oyster
these incidents so far are just the rich dragging the poor and middle class into their game, and those groups of people know nothing
tender vault
to summarize these articles, hybe was only able to attain another .98% of SM's shares. a lot less than they hoped for.
they were hoping to get another 25%
tender vault
these incidents so far are just the rich dragging the poor and middle class into...
i wouldn't go that far, i think there are a lot of people poor, middle class or not that have a good understanding of how businesses work
uneven field
This is.. good?
wintry oyster
i wouldn't go that far, i think there are a lot of people poor, middle class or ...
but really both sides want people on their side, seeking to give them a voice
so they're basically lulling people in with such apocalyptic statements that they'll take in their sides
well, newsflash for them, not everyone knows wall street-level finances and economics
and I just so happen to fit into the category that has no knowledge of economics
people honestly just make a big deal out of this...
eternal nexus
these incidents so far are just the rich dragging the poor and middle class into...
i dont think its a good idea to drag a persons knowledge based off their social status...
tender vault
and I just so happen to fit into the category that has no knowledge of economics
i understand, i just think it was a stretch to generalize the poor and middle class and essentially call them clueless.
wintry oyster
oh, my bad
eternal nexus
you can know more about business as a middle/lower class person compared to a higher class person
wintry oyster
my apologies
it's just that it's an issue that I really tire of hearing and I know nothing about it...just wanted to vent for a while
eternal nexus
its alright not to know like even i dont understand half of the situation but lets try to prevent generalizations like this in the future :)
tender vault
Twitter
obtuse ferry
the girls are fighting
indigo bluff
the girls are do fighting
fossil ivy
Sigh
soft solstice
Popcorn time
robust jewel
Have you seen what the shareholders said
Twitter
There is a lot behind the scenes we dont know apparently
tender vault
https://twitter.com/allkpop/status/1633172411691532294?s=46&t=Rn-DZsC_11KVrRYMlc...
inchresting
tender vault
Twitter
eternal nexus
https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1634349057534578689?s=20
oop
upper edge
The resting is inner but let’s see what happens next
soft solstice
https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1634349057534578689?s=20
Halleluya
Praise God Jihyo 🙏
rugged mist
https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1634349057534578689?s=20
idk what this means in the end but best outcome so far ig
upper edge
merry remnant
No comment on that
grim sigil
https://t.co/TbY0E3RxTG
hallow radish
...Sus
soft solstice
Plot twist: SM monopolize Hybe and Kakao M 🗿
rugged mist
Just like that? After spending so much? I don't like this
eternal nexus
https://t.co/TbY0E3RxTG
theres gotta be a catch...
upper edge
theres gotta be a catch...
Right 
eternal nexus
like we did not just witness a week or 2 of hybe going insane over sm shares...
theres gotta be smth behind 
soft solstice
theres gotta be a catch...
Mhm but eh we'll see
fossil ivy
I TOLD E.V.E.R.Y.O.N.E. LSM WAS THE REASON
I FEEL DUMBLY VALIDATED
WHY IS SME AT THE forefront of concepts? LSM. Why was SME creative, pushing boundaries? LSM.
Anyway--- not all the artists like it, that's fine, but gdi.
unreal coral
But that does mean LSM has failed tho right?
He was the one that initiated the HYBE deal
soft solstice
WHY IS SME AT THE forefront of concepts? LSM. Why was SME creative, pushing boun...
Ofc.. It’s HIS company that he founded
soft solstice
But that does mean LSM has failed tho right?
He was the one that initiated the H...
He already made the deal, meaning: He no longer holds a share in SM. Meaning: he officially doesn’t own any of the company
So he’s just a rich businessman that once owned SM now
Unlike JYP where JYP still owns a portion of JYPE
fossil ivy
LSM still has shares I think. in 2022 he had about 18% and HYBE bought 14%
soft solstice
Really?
tender vault
Really?
Yeah he’s still a shareholder in SM, he just isn’t the largest shareholder anymore
soft solstice
Ohh I see. But well, he still can't have the same influence as he did before. He's a minor share holder now.
cursive furnace
LSM still has shares I think. in 2022 he had about 18% and HYBE bought 14%
Didn't he sell all his shares and the 14 come from elsewhere 🤔 I I'm kind of lost by now on event's
tender vault
Didn't he sell all his shares and the 14 come from elsewhere 🤔 I I'm kind of l...
no, he still has 4% shares left and is still a shareholder
HYBE bought 14%
cursive furnace
no, he still has 4% shares left and is still a shareholder
Oh thanks for the information ☺️
fossil ivy
LSM didn't lose persay. He wanted to stop Kakao from taking over and he did
lunar marsh
safe herald
tender vault
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2023/03/hybe-sells-off-1943-of-its-shares-in-sm-...
now...
safe herald
Some people on Twitter are saying they are just offering to sell and havnt sold yet so I dunno for sure so maybe take the article with a grain of salt
eternal nexus
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2023/03/hybe-sells-off-1943-of-its-shares-in-sm-...
I
fossil ivy
uneven field
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2023/03/hybe-sells-off-1943-of-its-shares-in-sm-...
So it was all for nothing then?
obtuse ferry
so much happened and yet nothing happened at the same time
grim sigil
so much happened and yet nothing happened at the same time
exactly
soft solstice
https://www.allkpop.com/article/2023/03/hybe-sells-off-1943-of-its-shares-in-sm-...
Wait whaat?
cursive furnace
exactly
Some people are saying that hybe got 100 million from the deal but I am not sure if this is correct 🤔
tender vault
Twitter
eternal nexus
https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1643949797118734336?s=20
uneven field
https://twitter.com/tmikpop/status/1643949797118734336?s=20
the plot thickens…
obtuse ferry
The tea is scolding
grim sigil
The tea is scolding
the tea is on fire at this point
soft solstice
There is no more tea, it all evaporated
soft solstice
I...I don't even...what part are we on?
Chapter 10 of this saga I guess? Not sure
safe herald
upper edge
.disappointed
cosmic ginkgo
upper edge
all men do is lie /hj
indigo bluff
all men do is lie /hj
As a man i agree 😔
soft solstice
all men do is lie /hj
Lmao
obtuse ferry
What in the hippity hoppity is happening
safe herald
It may or may not fully be related anymore but Lee Soo Man is apparently selling his shares to HYBE https://x.com/kchartsmaster/status/1763039033901367334?s=46&t=r_Qpa2wXhIH4MOi8RUAikA
Twitter
robust jewel
Didnt he already do that and they sold them back to sm im confused he still had shares in sm??
fossil ivy
Didnt he already do that and they sold them back to sm im confused he still had ...
He still had like 3% or something
but IDK if they sold the shares to SM or cancelled the bid.
safe herald
Update cause it was discussed about HYBE having SM shares here before but https://x.com/kchartsmaster/status/1927282242528624741?s=46&t=r_Qpa2wXhIH4MOi8RUAikA
X