Minsung queerbaiting kinda confirmed

[noble venture]

a lot of groups queerbait, it's kind of obvious at this point

I'm not as outraged as i would be over other issues because it's just something that you have to keep in the back of your mind

it's still very disappointing and i don't think minho or jisung would realize how harmful queerbaiting is

[elfin cosmos]

i don’t get it, isn’t minsung smth fans made?

[sleek totem]

Ofc i know lots of people in kpop doing this but who get most profit from the queerbaiting is now Stray Kids with Minsung. They even do tiktoks for Minsung. That's why this is so important to know if its a coincidence or queerbaiting. I love Stray Kids but its not okay and we shouldnt normalise this.

[elfin cosmos]

im not a huge skz fan so i don’t know much

[sleek totem]

Nop company is pushing minsung moments from everywhere

Yes fans started but JYP kept it and add more to it

https://youtu.be/8sQzx-LrL98 This is the most obvious one

https://youtu.be/1RWFrTieF-w Not talking about this video. Company made them call eachother so something like "darling" in some videos

Oh its Turkish

[noble venture]

that's kind of what i said?

just because it's something that many do doesn't make it okay

[sleek totem]

https://youtu.be/QbntPEr7I9c

[elfin cosmos]

well i do think this is just fan service

[noble venture]

it's why it's such a huge problem

[noble venture]

that's kind of what queerbaiting is actually

[sleek totem]

And thats the point

[noble venture]

queerbaiting is extremely harmful fan service

[sleek totem]

Yep

[noble venture]

lgbtq relationships are extremely ||fetishised||, mainly mlm

kpop companies know this many do not care about the community and want to profit off of us wanting representation

or the ||fetishisers||

[sleek totem]

Exactly

[noble venture]

it's a very big problem in kpop, despite how many idols are pro lgbtq

[elfin cosmos]

i mean if you think about it that way, no idol is not queerbaiting

[noble venture]

sometimes it is friendship and members being very friendlt with each other and sometimes, it's queer baiting

[noble venture]

that's very false

[sleek totem]

While we are suffering for being queer these people act like one of us and get huge money from our lack of representation

[noble venture]

when you start wondering weither or not an idol is queer because of their interactions with their other members, it's where you have to take a step back and think >yeah, there could be smth wrong

[sleek totem]

Well for example Holland or Hani are not querrbaiting. They literally are queer

[noble venture]

but just becausr idols like key are comfortable in their skin and have alternative ways of presenting themselves doesn't mean it's queerbait

[noble venture]

or jo kwon for example, I'm not very sure if he is queer but he has a very gender neutral and sometimes fem presenting fashion

[sleek totem]

Yep

[noble venture]

not to mention how there are many idols who support us

[elfin cosmos]

well yeah(but also aren’t they solo?)

[noble venture]

doesn't mean a solo artist can't queerbait bc they interact with others

anybody can queerbait

[sleek totem]

Nop Hani is a group member of EXID and that doesnt matter

[noble venture]

and anybody can not be a douche and see the community as normal people who want to be seen

[drifting mulch]

I'm not sure the company forces them. Other members call eachother that not just these 2.

[elfin cosmos]

yes but the main queerbaiting happens in fan service and fan service is usuallu between members

[noble venture]

fanservice doesn't stop at your bandmates, just saying like

solo artists interact with other ones

[noble venture]

personally, i feel like minsung might be walking on the blurry lines of queer bait but i feel like members like chan (he supports the community) might be keeping them in check

[sleek totem]

Yes we are so greatful for them. They dont have to do queerbaiting when they support us openly. We'll support them too at that point. But their goal is not us. Their goal is to achive young girls' attention who f*tishize gay guys or the other way around

[noble venture]

but there are still chances that the company might suggest them to do this or that

[sleek totem]

Their company choose their contents

[drifting mulch]

Also um I don't think using their 2 kids room is a good example. All members did that and it's supposed to be a safe place for them to talk intimately

[noble venture]

we can't know for sure but it doesn't mean that the lines won't be crossed sometime soon, they seem comfortable enough with e/o most of the time to do things like these

[noble venture]

right, i didn't notice that as an example

[sleek totem]

I highly believe its the company. Because theres always a ship like this in JYP groups

[noble venture]

i think using how they're the most popular ship in skz might be a better example

[sleek totem]

Ryeji, Minchae, Minsung

[noble venture]

it's in every group of every company, even if they don't queer bait

minsung are walking on blurry lines

[sleek totem]

No the way they call each other in this video is an example

[noble venture]

because they are extremely comfortable with one another and very close

but they will start crossing the line sooner or later

i doubt it though, just because they have chan as their leader

still doesn't mean a conversation about queerbaiting can't be had though, it's something important to talk about

[sleek totem]

I think Mina amd Chaeyoung is also in this same line

[noble venture]

Personally, i doubt it?

[drifting mulch]

Now no offense to OOO but wouldn't they be a better example of queer baiting? They actually well act gay. They very well could be but they haven't confirmed anything either

[noble venture]

Chaeyoung literally fought JYPE to be able to cover Lady Gaga's Born this way

[sleek totem]

I dont know man im sure that Stray Kids already crossed the line

[noble venture]

please don't say act gay next time, it's enforcing stereotypes but idk personally

[sleek totem]

I dont know them well. Thats why i cant speak about it

[drifting mulch]

Yes I'm sorry I just didn't know how to phrase it

[sleek totem]

But i love JYP groups thats why im so confident talking about them

[noble venture]

its alr no worries but i also don't know them very well! i kind of avoid them bc well, idk i just don't feel that into their concept

even though their meant to represent me

it's best to move to another channel if you want to talk about them

[drifting mulch]

No no. I was just using them as an example since it's kind of in relation to the subject

[noble venture]

I'm not that sure about OOO, i have some thoughts about them but we would get off topic

[undone spire]

uhhh i'm sorry but are you talking about the show with the black host?

[noble venture]

but on minsung, eren and i have different perspectives on this so it depends on what you think

[drifting mulch]

I think I share your perspective on Minsung tbh

[undone spire]

i think you misunderstood what he was saying. he was speaking about his classmate and the host asked "did you like her" to which minho corrected him by saying "it was a guy." and then he said "i have no time for romance i'm an idol" its not him explicitly saying that he is not interested in men.

[sleek totem]

FYI My intention to start this topic is even tho we know lots of idols do queerbaiting we don't know who really do it. In this clip i saw was a "potential" proof that Minsung is just a queerbaiting. It is important because Minsung is one of the most popular kpop ships right now and they got lots of attention and profit by that. So as a homosexual person i just wanted to share my disapointment because it makes it close to being clear queerbait. I have no intention to attack Minho or Jisung.

[sleek totem]

Yes

[drifting mulch]

*Jisung
/lh

[undone spire]

the topic of him liking someone is brought up and he might of thrown in some "oh yeah i'm an idol i have no love life" humour

[noble venture]

i can see why you'd jump to the conclusion that they are queerbaiting, it's valid but i do recommend to also remember that their leader is not only a supporter of the community publically so he'd make sure to keep them in check but also that they very close to each other

[undone spire]

and was just correcting the host

[noble venture]

both are comfortable in their masculinity and knowing minho's flirty personality, he's bound to just say things like these

[sleek totem]

But it still explains Minsung is probably not real. Because Lee Know explains that he has no relationship with anybody. A gay person still can do queerbaiting.

[noble venture]

they're on a blurry line, weither it's intentional or not

[undone spire]

i understand the outrage around queerbaiting but minsung isn't much different to any other ship

[drifting mulch]

I definitely see where you're coming from as a queer person myself. I haven't yet seen the interview but from what Vera said there might be a confusion in translation. I think the line is blurry with them bit I don't think it's real proof

[drifting mulch]

True

[sleek totem]

I know and i like Chan but we can't know how Chan approach to this topic or how much control they way in their interactions

[noble venture]

i think he's mature enough to be able to to have a conversation with them in private and off camera about the issue

he might not be able to realize when the line is crossed and the full responsibility isn't on him, but there are many pro lgbtq idols in jype that are close to minho and jisung

[undone spire]

i understand that but they didn't confirm that they were dating either. if you look at the other stray kids members they have the same relationship. flirtatious and what not. felix and changbin too. minsung just happens to be the more popular ship

[sleek totem]

Oh yes this is why i always talk in a not %100 sure way. I called it potential or possible proof. I just wanted to share also to get true information from a more clear perspective

[undone spire]

whether you want to say that the whole group is queerbaiting then okie, but minsung is no different to other ships like felix and changbin, haechan and mark, jeno and jaemin, yeonjun and soobin

[noble venture]

let's not forget that they are all men who comfortable with the way they present themselves so they might show their affections in way that may be seen as "gay" by society

[sleek totem]

But we shouldn't forget that Minho and Han are mature enough to know the importance of this topic. So laying it on Chan is not the best way. They are adults and they are responsible for themselves

[noble venture]

they all trained together they all live together and they all love each other in a platonic way

there still are blurry line with many ships but as for now, it's just men who are comfortable with each other

but that's how i see, I'm also like a gay guy so idk

[undone spire]

have you ever considered that maybe minho and jisung are just extremely comfortable in their masculinity?

[noble venture]

yeah, exactly they are adult men so they know about the consequences

[noble venture]

that's what I've been saying for idk how long

[sleek totem]

Ofcourse but in my perspective who gives the most content is always Minsung and the Minsung is themost visible one to me. And the clip was from Lee Know that's why i wanted to talk about Minsung.

[noble venture]

the more i think about it, the more it's just blurry lines

[undone spire]

not all straight men are apprehensive to skinship

[sleek totem]

I do of course but i also consider them doing obvious queerbaiting. That's why im not targetting them. Just being worried

[drifting mulch]

Recently it's been more ships with Hyunjin. (From what I see)

[noble venture]

it's not very obvious IMO

[undone spire]

i mean i wouldn't put the blame on them since they are a fan favorite

[drifting mulch]

Agreed

[grave marlin]

I will say in Korea men are definitely more on the clingy and all over their friends than in the rest of the world. One of my friends who lives there has told me this closeness these male idols show is very common and they are just comfortable around each other. It was definitely a concept i had to get used to because here men are the men guys who think showing emotions is weak so its a nice change to see guys who arent afraid to hug, be affectionate towards their friends

[noble venture]

when you take the "They are comfortable with each other" argument away because it's invalid, it's obvious

[undone spire]

yes of course, sorry if i can coming off as aggressive

[noble venture]

when you can still say that they are friends and are comfortable then it's not obvious, blurry lines at best

[sleek totem]

Yes i don't put blame on them too. That's why im mostly talking about the content from the company. Like the scripted tik tok clips or the special videos for fans.

[undone spire]

but again ... minsung is nothing out of the ordinary. woosan (wooyoung and san) from ateez act like that too.

yeonjun is very flirtatious with other men too

[grave marlin]

There are a lot of ships like that especially with members who tend to naturally flirty

[drifting mulch]

Also just to say, I don't think the company is forcing this too much. I've heard that Felix has been asked to stop touching members because they didn't want him to come off "gay". Korea is still a conservative country and I don't think JYP (even if the artists or CEOS support lgbt) would want to be seen that way in Korea since they would loose a lot in Korea

[sleek totem]

Guys i see where you come from but Stray Kids is one of the few k-pop bg i know that's why im focusing on them and starting to talk about the possibility of the queerbaiting. I know k-pop is full of fanservices but i can't talk about other much while i don't know well. I never ignore the fact that other groups do that too

[noble venture]

i was going to say that, yes!!

[undone spire]

in my opinion we shouldn't really box the way men act. not all straight reject skinship. not all gay men are flirtatious. flirting shouldn't be considered as "evidence"

[undone spire]

yes i remember seeing some videos of minho and han being hesitate to hug each other

[noble venture]

people aren't monolith, it's a harmful stereotype that gay men only flirt and touch and whatnot

also,

[noble venture]

doesn't take away the fact that there are surveys and whatever else that prove that many men in korea, the majority even, are very bigoted

them being this close and whatnot isn't proof of the culture being accepting

it's just, something because this is something that teenage guys do here despite being very homophobic and victims of toxic masculinity

the conversation is nuanced so generalizing groups of people to prove a point is making it worse, just saying

[undone spire]

i also want to point out that ships aren't always fueled with romance

[noble venture]

it doesn't go one way or another hust because of this and that, there are many factors that play into this

[noble venture]

yes, agreed ex : minjun and nichkhun

[brave lynx]

[undone spire]

the enha ships too

[undone spire]

hey kel

[noble venture]

hello kel!! we're having an important discussion

[noble venture]

many nct ships like jeno and jaemin too, the list can go on

[undone spire]

sadly there are some people that think that jaemin and jeno are more than friends

[noble venture]

defo not like they've known each other since they were tweens and they're very comfortable with e/o

platonic shipping is a thing after all, it doesn't undermine the blurry lines but it's not black and white

[brave lynx]

i'm surrounded by stays on the daily here on discord and all I see is people appreciating minsung as platonic soulmates, nothing more than 2 best friends

[undone spire]

I ALSO WOULD LIKE TO POINT OUT that a lot of ships that pushed by straight women that fetishes gay relatioships and queer people who are desperate for representations

[brave lynx]

the energy changes on every app but this is just my experience

[brave lynx]

i know, i was checking what the discussion was about before introducing some thoughts

[undone spire]

so again.... nothing new and the blame isn't on minho and jisung because again... its fandom pushed

[drifting mulch]

Also for skz, not only were they trainees together but Chan CHOSE them to be by his side. Their whole survival show is so sad too and it must've been somewhat traumatizing.vi heard they were called a flop at their debut. They've been threw a lot together so it makes sense why they're comfortable with eachother

[sleek totem]

I'm not putting a stereotype on heterosexual men. What im coming from is not i think minsung is queerbaiting because they are comfortable with each other. What im coming from is i know the industry and lately i see Stray Kids doing these interactions more than usually they do. That's why im worried if they do. Because the focus on Minsung is kinda suspicious for me in my perspective. They can be good friends, lovers or just acting as a couple. But the growing collection of moments when ship got popular is kinda scaring me. That's why i started this. Because as a gay male myself i experienced the forced interaction between men. And i kinda think they are kinda sus in that.

[noble venture]

they're grown men surrounded by those who can educate them on doing better if they don't want to or can't find the proper resources to do so

at the end of the day, the situation isn't black and white when it comes to queerbaiting

[sleek totem]

I agree on that. This is a good climax

[noble venture]

well, I'm also a gay guy so if you think that two heterosexual men being comfortable with e/o is full on queer baiting

please take a step back

[sleek totem]

Don't get me wrong guys im not attacking Stray Kids. I love and admire them. This situation is kinda related to the minority im in that's why im worried

[sleek totem]

I don't

[noble venture]

i respect your opinion and your thoughts are valid but please, just think twice about this

[sleek totem]

I guess i couldnt express myself well while im not native

[undone spire]

well again, you cannot really say that their moments are forced.

[undone spire]

its okie you are explaining well

[noble venture]

neither am i and i find a lot of difficulty with expressing my thoughts but you did fine either way

i just think that from gay dude to gay broski, think twice about your stance on this please

[sleek totem]

Ofcourse they can be comfortable with themselves. This is great. I don't think skinship is forced or this is not something straight guys can do. My opinion on that is i kinda have suspicion because the moments get doubled when the ship got popular

[noble venture]

you don't have to change opinions and whatever, i can't force you but i recommend giving it a second thought

[drifting mulch]

Actually Minsungers have kind of been grasping at straws recently because they don't do content with just the 2 of them often.

[noble venture]

or it's because it's a popular ship that it feels like that?

they have a lot of very strange die hard fans who defend the ship like their lived depends on it

[drifting mulch]

Fr

[noble venture]

people who try to prove that their ships are real are nothing new

[noble venture]

so yeah, like hala said they're desperate

[sleek totem]

It might be. Because i can't give gguarantee if the clips i saw in the same period of time are from the same period of the year.

[undone spire]

i will say this as a stay that has been around since my pace era ... minsung VERY POPULAR SHIP but again... nothing different than other ships. that's why there are a lot of content of their moments. but there are many moments from yeonjun and soobin, haechan and mark, wooyoung and san

the list goes on

i'm sure if one of them comes out with the news that they are dating someone then the fandom won't turn into larries

[brave lynx]

well other members and ships have the same amount of interactions in skz but because minsung is the most popular that's the one people talk the most about doesn't mean they have more moments or they're pushing it

[grave marlin]

Im not saying accepting just that they are comfortable enough around each other to do skinship with each other

[thick bronze]

This

[noble venture]

yes, I'm aware but be a bit more mindful with your wording regarding this issue pls

it could come off as generalizing and it makes everything worse