rafaelbaptista - pending balance transactions | Stripe Developers | Page 1

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:31 PM

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Hello! Just starting a thread for you -- I'll review and respond as soon as I can 🙂

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:32 PM

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ok perfect, if you need more information let me know

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:36 PM

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All payments are pending for a period of time while the charges settle

This is normal. What are you expecting to happen instead?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:37 PM

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but normally on express dashboard of the connected account the balance is updated with the value that is pendind

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my balance is 0$

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:40 PM

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Where are you checking that balance?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:40 PM

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on the express dashbaord

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of my connected account

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:45 PM

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Can you do a balance retrieval from the API for that account and share the results?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:48 PM

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array(2) { ["available"]=> array(2) { ["value"]=> float(0) ["currency"]=> string(3) "usd" } ["pending"]=> array(2) { ["value"]=> float(41952) ["currency"]=> string(3) "usd" } } i formated the balance array

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when retrive from api is also 0

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acct_1KyIciQri8CHaRRm account id

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:51 PM

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No it is not, that data shows a pending balance

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:52 PM

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what you mean is not, i just retrived from api and its 0

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:52 PM

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["pending"]=> array(2) { ["value"]=> float(41952) ["currency"]=> string(3) "usd"

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:52 PM

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that is the name that i called

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is not the answer from the api

stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:53 PM

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Sorry, can you rephrase that?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:53 PM

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like i told you on the message i formated the response of the api call
to an array that i callled
pending and available

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and the two values are 0

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oh wait you right

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the value is not 0

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but why on dashboard is showing 0

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and all transfer pendind, how long it takes to the transfer be available ?

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stray marten May 13, 2022, 3:57 PM

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It depends on the underlying payment

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What are those two top labels?

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on the zero amounts

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 3:57 PM

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this is the stripe express dashboardm that stripe provides to express connected accounts

stray marten May 13, 2022, 4:01 PM

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Yep this looks like normal pending account behaviour, though I'm not sure what those labels zeros are on the dashboard.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:04 PM

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i translate for you
the first says on the way
the other To Pay

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but how many days takes for that pendind status clear?

stray marten May 13, 2022, 4:06 PM

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got it

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then that makes sense -- no payouts are "on the way" yet, and no balance is available to pay out yet

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it depends on the payment, some take more or less time

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:09 PM

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but like hours or days?

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because the last ones on the screenshot that i sent you already made 24h

stray marten May 13, 2022, 4:16 PM

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https://support.stripe.com/questions/common-questions-about-payout-schedules

Common questions about payout schedules : Stripe: Help & Support

Find help and support for Stripe. Our support center provides answers on all types of situations, including account information, charges and refunds, and subscriptions information. Get your questions answered and find international support for Stripe.

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https://stripe.com/docs/payouts#payout-speed

Receiving payouts

Set up your bank account to receive payouts.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:18 PM

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but from what support told me the balance is nothing to do with the payout
the payout is when the balance is sent to the bank account and not when a payment is made from the platform to the connect account

stray marten May 13, 2022, 4:21 PM

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You can inspect the balance transaction associated with an individual payment (charge) to see when it will be available in your balance using available_on
For destination charges like you example the connect account balance will be available at that same time
https://stripe.com/docs/api/balance_transactions/object#balance_transaction_object-available_on

Stripe API reference – The balance transaction object – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:26 PM

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but that transactions were made with destination charge but they are still pendind

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why is that?

stray marten May 13, 2022, 4:28 PM

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because the charge on your platform is still pending ( ch_3Kz08FJAALoXUWoD1nZGLQGT )

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available on may 17

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:29 PM

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thats because im a new account?

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also can this time of balance pending be changed ?

past cargo May 13, 2022, 4:43 PM

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Hi 👋 I'm stepping in for @stray marten

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Unfortunately you are venturing into topics that we are not really equipped to answer here. I recommend you write in to Support asking about the specifics of the delay you are experiencing.
https://support.stripe.com/contact/email

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:45 PM

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raven hatch also can this time of balance pending be changed ?

this is a develop question

past cargo May 13, 2022, 4:47 PM

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No, it isn't. The reason charges may or may not be pending is something that involves more rules and policies than just the APIs.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:50 PM

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that is not my question, i you read my last message i asked if the time of the funds transfered to the balance of the connected account can be changed or if they will enter automic when using destination charges

past cargo May 13, 2022, 4:51 PM

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I read this

also can this time of balance pending be changed ?
To mean you wanted to know if you could change the length of time a charge was pending

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:55 PM

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that basically is the time of the payout from platform to the connected account that is what i want to know

past cargo May 13, 2022, 4:57 PM

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That is what Support will be better equipped to answer. From me I can only say "it depends".

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 4:59 PM

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but this is part of the api calls like the payout schedulle, but anyways i have other question.

When a dispute is open by the card issuer the amount + fee will be withdraw from the platform, what are the ways that i can get this money back from the connected account (amount of ch + fee of stripe dispute)

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:18 PM

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👋 stepping in here. Give me a moment to catch up

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:19 PM

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raven hatch but this is part of the api calls like the payout schedulle, but anyways i have ...

What charge flow are you using?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:20 PM

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Stripe express with destination charges

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:20 PM

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Are you setting OBO?

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What country is your platform and Connected Accounts in?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:22 PM

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Our platform is from US , from what understand when using destination charges is required using on_behalfof to pass the statent descriptor,... To the connected account payment so yap im using OBO

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:24 PM

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Okay and where are those Connected Accounts based?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:25 PM

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major will be from Us but we will have also accounts from colombia, europe,...

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we are an international system so we have have accounts from different contries

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:26 PM

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Got it

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So the main way you retrieve funds back from the Connected Account is to reverse the original transfer

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However, I recommend that for your international accounts you wait until the resolution of the dispute to take action.

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The reason for this is that if you reverse the transfer and the dispute is then won, you won't be able to return the funds back to your Connected Account.

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Since you can't make cross border transfers

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Without it being originated from a charge that is OBO

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So essentially you should "float" the disputed funds until the resolution of the dispute. Then if the dispute is lost you reverse the transfer using https://stripe.com/docs/api/transfer_reversals/create

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If you want to reverse the transfer for your domestic accounts immediately, you can. Since you will be able to make a one-off transfer later to those accounts to return the funds if the dispute is won.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:32 PM

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So after reading your message still have some questions:

when doing the reversal transfer , the amount reversed will include the fee 15$ charged by stripe when a dispute is open?
i'm currently using the on_behalf_of with destination charges in every charge that i make, this is correct right?
how many days can a dispute take to be solved as won or lost?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:35 PM

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No it won't include the $15. That fee takes place on your platform. The amount transferred from the original charge is what will be reversed.

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Using OBO or not depends on who you want to be the Merchant of Record and whether or not you are operating internationally

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You have to use it for international transactions

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For domestic... that is up to whose details you want the end-customer to see

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Info about disputes here: https://stripe.com/docs/disputes/how-disputes-work

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:37 PM

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visual iris No it won't include the $15. That fee takes place on your platform. The amount t...

what i wanted to know if is also possible to get the stripe fee dispute amount reversed from the connected account

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:37 PM

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Gotcha.

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For domestic accounts you can use account debits: https://stripe.com/docs/connect/account-debits to charge them for that fee.

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For international accounts you would need to collect payment method details and charge them on your platform.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:38 PM

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visual iris Using OBO or not depends on who you want to be the Merchant of Record and whethe...

so basically is like we talked about, the on_behalf_of basically passed the charge information to the payment made to the connected account, is this correct=

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:38 PM

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Or, if you really want to, you could transfer those accounts less funds on future charges to make up for the dispute fees.

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:39 PM

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raven hatch so basically is like we talked about, the on_behalf_of basically passed the char...

Yes

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:39 PM

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visual iris Or, if you really want to, you could transfer those accounts less funds on futur...

but how is this possible if we have auto payouts and not using manual payouts

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:39 PM

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Payouts have nothing to do with the amount you determine to transfer in a destination charge?

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That is based on the transfer_data.amount

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:40 PM

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sorry can you reprahse?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:41 PM

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Sure

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You decide on how much to transfer to the Connected Account on each charge

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So maybe you normally transfer $20 on a $25 charge

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After a dispute maybe you decide on the next one you will only transfer $5 on a $25 charge

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To cover the dispute fee

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I really don't recommend this route

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But it is a way to recover that fee if you so desire

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:42 PM

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how yes, thats right, but in order to keep that value i would have to have on my database the amount that is owed on disputes

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:42 PM

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Right

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It is hacky

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Which is why I don't recommend it

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:42 PM

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ahah yap thats why i was trying to avoid that and see what are the best aproachs

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to recover the dispute fee

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:43 PM

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Yeah this is tough for international accounts since you can't use account debits.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:43 PM

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amount

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:43 PM

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My recommendation is to collect a payment method for those users and charge that payment method as a normal charge to cover the fee.

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If you collect a bank debit payment method then fees will be pretty low

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:45 PM

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my concern is how i would keep a record if that dispute fee was already paid to the platform or not by the connected account

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:47 PM

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You have to track that in your database

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You will have to track that no matter which route you go.... there is no Stripe feature to recover dispute fees as a platform

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:48 PM

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gotcha, so basically when a dispute is open i should listen to the webhook and store the dispute id + charge id on my database

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and then would have to make a charge with the dispute fee amounts owed

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:51 PM

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Yes. But once again recommend waiting until the dispute is resolved first

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Since the dispute fee is returned if the dispute is won

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:53 PM

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understood, that would be just to keep track of the disputes opened and the ones that i need to charge the fee to the client

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:53 PM

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Ah yep

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:54 PM

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also how i can check if the dispute amount was reversed or not? so i can check if the amount was returned to the platform?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:54 PM

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visual iris Ah yep

the correct webhook to listen in this case is dispute.created?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:55 PM

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I believe it is charge.dispute.created

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:57 PM

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raven hatch also how i can check if the dispute amount was reversed or not? so i can check i...

and regarding this'

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 5:58 PM

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visual iris I believe it is `charge.dispute.created`

ty, and the dispute fee is allways 15$ or should i analyse the dispute fee object when listing to the weebhook?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 5:59 PM

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Always $15 for USD

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 6:02 PM

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But the correct approach would be assuming that is allways 15$ or check the value of the dispute fee on the dispute response from the weebhok?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 6:03 PM

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That is really up to you.

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We wouldn't change this amount without sending out communication to merchants

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But the "safe" way would be to check

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 6:04 PM

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Alright, sounds good ... I still have some answers but have to take a call ... Can you please keep this thread Open?

visual iris May 13, 2022, 6:05 PM

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Sure

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 6:50 PM

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Im back, so talking with my team we have some questions about the charge of the fee, can the charge of the fee amount be done by removing x amount from the Next payout of the connected account insted of using the charges API endpoint that dosent make sense

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can you please explain to me how would i charge the connect account the 15$ back or more
( depending the amount the connected account owes on disputes fees )

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:00 PM

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Hello, bismark had to step out but I am catching up on this and will get back to you shortly

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:01 PM

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ok perfect

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any news?

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:15 PM

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Apologies had to bounce around a couple of other threads. I am back and looking at this.

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So bismark was talking about charging your users pretty much the way you would charge a normal customer. You would collect a payment method of theirs and make a charge on it as appropriate n response to the disputes.

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charge of the fee amount be done by removing x amount from the Next payout of the connected account
This sounds like the other solution you discussed before where you would withold some portion of the transfer that is going to the connected account, correct?

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So yeah that should be viable but again you would have to track how much you were witholding from transfers yourself

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:20 PM

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but when you say make a charge you mean do it manually on stripe dashboard?

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:20 PM

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vital tendon > charge of the fee amount be done by removing x amount from the Next payout of ...

yeah this is one of the ways that we talked about

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:21 PM

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visual iris Which is why I don't recommend it

also bismarck said that would recomend do that on the destination charge

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:23 PM

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Yes, you would probably want to make the charge via the Dashboard or API

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:24 PM

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can you guide me how to do it by api, how i can make a charge to a specifc connected account?

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are you still with me?

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:35 PM

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Yes I am, just looking for a good doc

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:35 PM

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ok srry take your time

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:37 PM

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We kind of don't have a doc specifically on this because our other "accept a payment" guides still largely apply here. You would essentially have both an Account and a Customer object for each of your users and charge the Customer via PaymentIntents as appropriate

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:38 PM

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but i want to charge the connected account for that fee only, so i dont have a custommer

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:38 PM

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So in other words, follow our "set up future payment guide" and then to charge the user you can create a payment intent with off_session and confirm set to true as with this step of the guide https://stripe.com/docs/payments/save-and-reuse#charge-saved-payment-method

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Unfortunately that is not currently possible with Account objects. To make the charges you will likely want a Stripe Customer object so that you can save your user's payment methods and charge them as appropriate

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:40 PM

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but what i'm saying is that the connect account is the one that i want to charge, is not possible to make a direct charge to this account?

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also our platform dont have currently payment intents implemented

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:43 PM

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Oh you can also do it with the older Charges API or whatever you are using to charge users

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And no, unfortunately there is not currently a way to directly charge to the account like that

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:44 PM

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the connected account don have a customer for them so i dont have a way to execute the aproach that you described

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stripe needs to have a way to manually charge a value to an account on dashboard or via api

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:51 PM

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I will raise that as feedback. At the moment, the primary ways to do this would be witholding funds or to collect this data now from your users to be able to charge going forward.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:52 PM

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but the withholding of funds using destination charges is recomended? because bismark tould that we didnt recomend doing that

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that basically when i decide the amount to transfer to destination account i would do amount - disputes fees_owed

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or to collect this data now from your users to be able to charge going forward the connected account dont have a user is an account so that wouldnt work or do you mean the main account of my clients?

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:56 PM

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Oh I see, bismark also mentioned reverse transfers which would definitely also work https://stripe.com/docs/api/transfer_reversals/create

Stripe API reference – Create a transfer reversal – curl

Complete reference documentation for the Stripe API. Includes code snippets and examples for our Python, Java, PHP, Node.js, Go, Ruby, and .NET libraries.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 7:57 PM

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vital tendon Oh I see, bismark also mentioned reverse transfers which would definitely also w...

but this will not reverse the dispute fee, thats the main problem that i talked with bishmark
will only reverse the amount of dispute

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 7:58 PM

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raven hatch `or to collect this data now from your users to be able to charge going forward`...

I may be mixing up terminology here. I meant that for each person who you have an Account for, you would also need to create a Customer and reach out to ask for this payment method info for charging.

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I'm going to need a few minutes to reread this thread more thoroughly. I have been having to bounce around to other users with questions so my understanding of this thread wasn't as good as it should be.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 8:01 PM

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ok take your time and when you ready just let me know

vital tendon May 13, 2022, 8:37 PM

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Okay finally caught up. Apologies that this took a while.

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So to sum up again, the two main options for these international accounts would be

Creating Customer objects for each international Account, collecting payment method info, and charging their payment method as you would a normal customer once the dispute is lost.
Taking the dispute fee out of larger payments.
Both of these would take new code and functionality on your side as unfortunately we don't have an automatic way to take this fee from the users and unfortunately we don't support debiting connected accounts like this at the moment.

As has kind of been said, approach #2 is slightly more hacky but it is still viable if you really don't like the other option. We can't particularly say that one approach is better for you than the other, that depends on your constraints here.

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 9:17 PM

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So to to clarify the option 1. , when you say create Customer Objects, you mean create these customers on my platform account and then charged them using stripe dashboard?

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or this can be done using the stripe api using regular charges ?

echo arrow May 13, 2022, 9:18 PM

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Hi there 👋 taking over for pompey. Either option is fine. They both achieve the same thing

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 9:20 PM

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alright perfect but the customer have to be create under the platform account right?

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so then i can make a regular charge to that customer

echo arrow May 13, 2022, 9:23 PM

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The customer would be created on on the platform account, correct

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 9:25 PM

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and just to confirm the charge could be done using stripe dashboard or using a regular charge api without the destination parameter

echo arrow May 13, 2022, 9:26 PM

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The destination parameter is only used if you want to send the funds to the connected account. So, if I understand correctly, you wouldn't be doing that in this scenario

raven hatch May 13, 2022, 9:27 PM

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correct i want to get the fee amount back from the connected account to the platform

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so would be a regular charge

#rafaelbaptista - pending balance transactions