#Village_Admin - payment record

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

white dragon
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You can definitely do that with an invoice. You can create the Invoice, add invoice items related to the payment, and mark it as being "paid out of band" which means you took the payment outside of Stripe.

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I forget if you can apply customer balance to payment intents but the Invoice method would probably be the most straightforward.

timid lake
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Well im trying to solve two "short comings" (imo), tell me if im asking the wrong questions...

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Everything im asking is in relation to subscriptions;
When a dispute happens, and it turns into a charge back, #1) nothing shows on the customer end that their previous payment was reversed. And #2) nothing in their account balance reflects the withdrawal of funds.

My goal, if a chargeback happened for $20 then it should be reflected in their customer credit balance. I would want to adjust their balance to -$20. But then i also want a "record" of why their balance is now -$20. A payment line with description saying "adjustment for dispute id ####" would be perfect for me, but not sure if that can be done, and i don't think the customer can see that in their portal.

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Is making an "out of band" invoice the best option? And would creating an invoice automatically adjust their credit balance?

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Im looking in create invoice from dashbord, and it looks like you can only create an invoice populated with a pre-defined product/price. Not sure invoice would do what im asking.

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Im also not seeing anything in invoice dashboard or API regarding "out of band", i only see charge_automatically or send_invoice.

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Are these payments in the dashboard the paymentIntent in the API?

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white dragon
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Yes, you can list the Invoices for that Subscription and those Invoices will have the PaymentIntents for those payments

timid lake
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Im looking over paymentIntent API and it doesn't look like i can just create one of those either that isn't going to try to charge a payment option.

white dragon
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Thanks for the clarification. I am not sure the best way to go about this. I feel like we might have a more direct way to do this and wll have to look in to it for a bit

timid lake
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Credit Notes?

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You can't submit negative numbers for credit notes?

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Looks like a credit note would solve most problems, except it wont let me input a negative number on the dashboard to debit their balance. The API docs don't specify one way or the other if it has to be a positive number or can be negative.

white dragon
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So just to clarify: you are taking a payment of $20 and adding $20 to their customer balance. And if they dispute that payment and get the money back, you are trying to adjust the balance back down $20 and you want to show them that on some invoice or receipt?

timid lake
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Not exactly. Usually their balance is $0. But that isn't important, it could be carrying a balance. This is for subscription, so they are on recurring billing.

A chargeback happens. They are still using the service, they still have a subscription because disputes dont stop subscriptions.

They paid $20 for service, they are still using, but the $20 was charged back, if they want to keep using service they need to make good on the $20 they owe because they took back the $20 they originally paid. Easiest thing to do is debit their account balance -$20. If they want to get their account into good standing they would have to make another $20 payment to bring their account to $0 so service can resume.

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Now, i can just adjust the account balance, but that is "random" IMO because magically the balance is just different with no history or explanation as to why. What im trying to do is create a "payment" as a record for that balance adjustment. Instead of just adjusting the balance, create a -$20 payment with a description saying its because of dispute ID#, this way it is transparent in the future why their account is carrying a negative balance.

white dragon
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Gotcha. Thank you for the clarification. You could make a new Invoice with a $20 item on it in that case. But if it is tied to one of our Subscription objects, that wouldn't by itself help the subscription go back to an active status.

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Going to need to think on what you can do here again

timid lake
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As far as i can tell, Invoices require charging a payment method ONLY one of your pre-created products/prices.

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I found the "credit notes" which is perfect, because it creates a line entry on the invoice they disputed, solves record keeping issue. But from playing with it in dashboard it has two drawbacks, it wont let you create a negative entry or an entry higher than the original line items.

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However that might be a limitation built only into the dashboard, the API docs dont say either way. Can you find out what are the limitations for amounts using the API? Can i put any random number positive or negative?

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white dragon
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Still thinking on this. And what behavior do you currently have set for "manage disputed payments" on subscriptions?

timid lake
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I have not seen that setting.

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I found it.

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Hmm, i think it would better to have an option for dispute lost. Wouldn't want to automatically cancel someone's subscription just because an inquiry was started that ends up being resolved.

drowsy spear
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oh yeah that's a good point, we definitely should have done it on at least real disputes

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doing it just for lost is tricky. It takes a while to resolve and you've continue charging them in the meantime

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most of the time though inquiries become real disputes anyways unless you refund

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and if you refund, you likely don't want to charge again

timid lake
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So what path should i take. Regardless of when the sub is canceled, i still want to resolve the "book keeping" aspect of adjusting their balance.

drowsy spear
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I don't really have a good recommendation here. I've never seen anyone tried to do this and treat a dispute as "money the customer owes you"

timid lake
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Can you push a button and let me put any amount negative numbers into credit notes? 🙂

drowsy spear
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no that wouldn't happen because of how Credit Notes are viewed in accounting

timid lake
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But it is money they owe you.

drowsy spear
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well it depends, if they disputed it's usually because you owed them the money back in their eyes

timid lake
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And one of two things happens, it was a mistake chargeback and they make good to keep using service. Or they were scammers and run away, and you have a clear indication on that account of why the account was abandoned, having a chargeback, a negative balance, etc.

timid lake
drowsy spear
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And yeah we don't have any solution here other than tracking this yourself

timid lake
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But, bigger concern in my mind is having a clear indicator on an account what happened. Some scammers have enough balls to pretend to be real concerned customers trying to complain why their account is off.

drowsy spear
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yeah I mean scammers will also create new accounts with new cards and such too

timid lake
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They play the numbers game, if a company is big enough with many employees, its easy to trick a confused employee into clearing an issue.

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Yes, that is my other concern, is by default, nothing stops a scammer using the same stolen card (that just had a charge back) to open another new account.

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...Unless i pay stripe for using fraud list and build a mouse trap to put payment fingerprints into ban list.

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You would hope stripe itself would global ban payments used in fraud transactions from being accepted by any stripe merchant.

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So this is a dead end? No good ideas?

drowsy spear
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The best option is to handle this your own way. You see a dispute and you put that amount in their balance if that's how you want to approach this, that should work right? It's just not automated

timid lake
drowsy spear
timid lake
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Alright, i will go that route. Thanks. You can close thread.