#Elian-cloning
brisk tiger
@dull brook yep, that is how it works, all that can be cloned is the payment method
that's a building block you can use for a concept of 'cloning customers'
dull brook
so I have to re-create from scratch all the client information on the connect account ? (VAT ID, address etc...)
brisk tiger
so if you want the customer object on the connected account to have info from the one on the platform you'd have to manually copy it across
yep
dull brook
wow, this is bad news !
But thank you for your help !😉
do you know if the VAT rates also have to be re-created on the connect accounts?
brisk tiger
yep they would
if you're using Direct Charges than all the objects live on the connected account, including tax rates or Products/Prices and so on
so if you combine that with the 'cloning' approach where you vault the card details on a main platform and copy them to individual accounts for the actual payments, it is quite complex overall unfortunately
dull brook
indeed, and it seems that I connaot use the customer portal to let the clients get their list of invoices on connected accounts?
dull brook
Hi, I am implementing a Stripe Connect solution where the platform is in the UK and the suppliers can be anywhere in Europe or in the US.
I want to find a way how to collect platform fees and pay the suppliers. But I understand that cross-border transfers are not possible when the supplier is not in the same country as the platform.
Any idea of how I could transfer funds to the supplier?
brisk tiger
indeed, and it seems that I connaot use the customer portal to let the clients get their list of invoices on connected accounts?
it should be possible, you'd use https://stripe.com/docs/connect/authentication to create the portal session object on the connected account.
for your other question hmm.
I thought you are using Direct Charges?
that's what cloning customers is for
if you use Direct then there are no transfers so that limitation doesn't matter
dull brook
> indeed, and it seems that I connaot use the customer portal to let the clients...
this does not work : it says that the customer ID is not found, althout I am using the customer ID of the connect account. No Customer portal possible for connect accounts
But Direct charges is super-heavy, so I am exploring "separate charges and transfer"
brisk tiger
then you must be missing something like the Stripe-Account option in the request. Happy to look if you have the exact code you used and the request ID for the failure https://support.stripe.com/questions/finding-the-id-for-an-api-request !
brisk tiger
But Direct charges is super-heavy, so I am exploring "separate charges and trans...
ok that's a really big change though(it moves all the liability for refunds/disputes/payment fees to you) and is a complex integration as well, but ok, makes some sense!
Any idea of how I could transfer funds to the supplier?
I'd make sure to read
https://stripe.com/docs/connect/account-capabilities#transfers-cross-border
If you’re not covered by these scenarios, create a platform account in that same region and onboard accounts to that account. Depending on your business structure, this might require creating a legal entity in that region and additional work to onboard users to the new platform account.
the platform is in the UK and the suppliers can be anywhere in Europe or in the US.
it works fine if you take US out of the equation
dull brook
Yes I have read it, and this is why I am asking you how to transfer funds from a UK platform to a US supplier?
brisk tiger
you can't
dull brook
and from UK platform to France supplier?
brisk tiger
the v1/transfers API or destination charges would work from a UK platform to a FR connected account
dull brook
regarding customer portal, it seems that I am missing customer portal settings on the connected account
brisk tiger
Yes I have read it, and this is why I am asking you how to transfer funds from a...
more accurately — you can't just send a direct transfer of funds. So instead you'd do things like Direct Charges so the customer pays that account in the US directly, or Destination charges with on_behalf_of so the funds the customer pays don't have to cross borders (https://stripe.com/docs/connect/destination-charges#settlement-merchant) . There are ways to structure the integration but it's a bit more complex than just sending the funds directly
brisk tiger
regarding customer portal, it seems that I am missing customer portal settings o...
yep, it only works if the connected account has set up branding. Unfortunately if you're using Standard Connect I think that relies on the owner of the account having done that so you might want to prompt them to do it as part of onboarding them to your platform
dull brook
I am using express
brisk tiger
oh neat
then you shouldn't be using Direct charges or cloning customers at all, that's for Standard
dull brook
But then how to transfer funds from the platform to the suppliers ? And collect platform fees ? You said earlier that it could only be done with Direct Charges
brisk tiger
You'd use Destination Charges!
e.g https://stripe.com/docs/connect/destination-charges#flow-of-funds-app-fee , you can process the payment on your platform, take a fee, and send some of the money to a connected account.
there are cross-border limitations yes, but there are options like using on_behalf_of as I alluded to (see the section on that same page ^^ about 'settlement merchant' at the top)
as a concrete example if you want to charge a customer and send the money to a US supplier you'd have to onboard the US account with the card_payments capability, and then run the payment with on_behalf_of and transfer_data set to the US account(from the customer's perspective the US account's details are used and it's a locally-acquired payment so the money doesn't cross borders).
It's possible but this is a complex area.
dull brook
but the application fee is crossing a border ? (from US to UK)
brisk tiger
that doesn't cause a problem, the approaches we document above do work
dull brook
can I use this approach with "separate charge and transfer" or only with destination charge ?
clear elm
@dull brook no, separate charge and transfer first settles with your platform and involves a cross border transfer, so its a very different flow subject to those cross-border restrictions
dull brook
oh, ok, the issue is that my client really wants to delay the payout to the supplier until the servcie has been provided. Can I do that with destination charges ?
clear elm
How long might that deferral be? If the payment method supports it, eg with cards, you can defer capture for up to 7 days
Otherwise, you might consider using manual payouts to control when providers are paid
But generally no you can't defer the transfer of a destination charge, it proceeds when the payment is captured
dull brook
yes I want to use manual payouts, I undertand it also works with destination charges
ANother question @clear elm : how do I collect taxes with destination charges ? There is no tax field in the payment intent API
can I use STripe auot-tax?
It seems that I have to create an invoice first, where I enter tax info. But then how do I create a destination charge ?
clear elm
Payment Intents don't work with Stripe Tax today, you'd have to adjust the amount of the payment yourself
dull brook
but can I create a tax rate and apply it to the transaction ?
clear elm
No, that's not supported in the public payment intent API currently
dull brook
so I cannot put any tax information at all ? Not on the invoice, not on the payment, nowhere ? This is illegal. How can STripe offer illegal solutions ?
clear elm
Payment Intents just facilitate the actual payment -- you would manage the tax calculation in your application and any representation of that to your customer.
dull brook
but the invoice is issued by STripe !
clear elm
Using Stripe Invoices does support tax rates and tax identifiers, but that's not what you were asking about
you asked about payment intents
Are you using Invoices?
If you want to collect tax using invoices, that is supported via Stripe Tax, and there is entire documentation of that here: https://stripe.com/docs/tax/invoicing
I would suggest exploring that for your integration
dull brook
Can I use invoices with Stripe COnnect ?
The Connect documentation never mentions taxes
nor invoices
clear elm
Yes, you can use Invoices with Connect and create invoices for your connected accounts
dull brook
Could you please elaborate on how to create a destination charge on behalf of a connected account with invoices ?
This is really not obvious...
ANd the documentation only mentions payment intents for destination charges
clear elm
Sure, these are examples and the use cases exists in other products, not every combination is fully documented with examples
To create an invoice with a destination charge you'd use the same transfer_data parameters on the invoice creation that you would on a paymentintent:
https://stripe.com/docs/api/invoices/create#create_invoice-transfer_data