#jcmchugh-billing
eager cloak
hmm I imagine it can be done but it's not directly how our subscriptions work(mainly being billed in arrears, we bill in advance) so it will require some thought
the second part is easy enough — you can prorate the initial period and that's fully supported https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/billing-cycle#new-subscriptions
hoary furnace
Huge thanks Karllekko.
How would pro-rating work though, if you weren't billing in arrears?
Thanks for the article link Karllekko. That is really useful. Wondering whether it's easier for me to simply treat a mid-month subscriber signup as a 'free trial' period and then just start billing (in advance or arrears) from the start of the next full month?
eager cloak
sorry, just thinking/answering other folks
hoary furnace
Huge thanks Karllekko! Really appreciate your guidance here.
I'm assuming 'Metered Billing' is not a solution to my question? (just ruling out what sections i should NOT be reading up on! : )
eager cloak
metered billing does allow you to charge in arrears, it's the only mode that does that by default
but it doesn't seem like it really suits, since you are not doing a metered/usage based price(like charge for the amount of usage in a given month at the end of the month).
are you sure Google does it in arrears? It might just seem that way. In general it makes more sense to charge in advance(the payment on Sep 1st pays for access to the service from Sep 1-> Sep 31, the payment on Oct 1st pays for access to the service from Oct 1->31) so you don't provide the service the customer hasn't paid for.
that would just be a normal per-seat subscription on Stripe then
hoary furnace
Thank you Karlekko. I'm just reflecting on your thoughts.
Karlekko, you raise really good points. I fully believe that Google Workspace (monthly subscriptions) is billed in arrears, because your 1st Invoice reflects your cost from the day you signed up e.g.) 10th Nov 2021 until 30th Nov 2021. https://support.google.com/a/answer/1247362 .... SEE SECTION ....
How payments are calculated
You’re billed for the service you use at the beginning of the following month. For example, if you purchase the Flexible Plan for Business Starter with 7 user accounts in U.S. dollars, you’re billed USD 42 at standard pricing (7 users X USD 6 per user) at the beginning of the following month. If you keep using only 7 accounts, you continue to be billed USD 42 (at standard pricing) each subsequent month, until you cancel your subscription.
If you add or remove users during any month, we prorate your payments. If you add a user on April 1 and delete them on April 15, we charge you for only half a month of service.
Note: You can optionally pay ahead for your subscription instead of making monthly payments by adding credit to your account. For details, see Make a manual payment or pay early.
Google bills you "at the beginning of the following month"
eager cloak
reading...
hoary furnace
So, I guess my question is, would it be easier (if i'm using STRIPE) to simply provide a 'free trial' to subscribers who sign up 'mid-month' and then move the subscriber to 'Monthly billing in advance' from 1st of each full month? If i proceeded with this direction what would happen if a subscriber cancels during a 'mid-month?' (i guess i could just apply the same 'adapted logic' in reverse e.g. bill until the end of the month they cancelled?)
eager cloak
yeah fair enough, that is just not how our Subscriptions product works so it's really hard to directly map that
eager cloak
So, I guess my question is, would it be easier (if i'm using STRIPE) to simply p...
so my first question is what should I pay today (if anything) if I sign up mid month
by default our product would do, charge a prorated amount from now until the start of the next month, and charge that to you now at the time of signing up. (that's what https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/billing-cycle#new-subscriptions is) Is that what you want?
hoary furnace
Reading now. Thank s
Sorry Karllekko, just so my understanding is clear, is that last article you shared suggesting - 'you can add the "pro-rated period from the previous month" on top of the 1st full month invoice (which is then billed in advance/start of the first full month)? e.g. John signs up for £30 Monthly subscription service on 20th October 2021. On the 1st of Nov 2021, John thus receives an invoice for a) £30 = 1 Full Month of Subscription in November 2021 + b) £10 = for 10 days subscription service used from 20th to 31st Oct 2021.'
eager cloak
no, he receives an invoice right now on 20 Oct for the prorated amount(call it 10 pounds), then on 1st Nov he gets the 20 pound invoice, that's how it works by default
if you want it the way you describe(pay nothing now and pay the prorated amount+next period at the next billing anchor date), I think there's a way to do it(thinking)
hoary furnace
So, i think this is the perfect solution you've just raised (I may have been confusing us all at the start when i talked about 'payment in arrears', which i only mentioned to deal with the initial 'mid-month-sign-up'!) But if what you're saying is true ("no, he receives an invoice right now on 20 Oct for the prorated amount(call it 10 pounds), then on 1st Nov he gets the 20 pound invoice, that's how it works by default) is capable using STRIPE e.g. Subscriber signs up on 20th Oct 21 and on 20th Oct 21 is sent an invoice 'invoice now due for £10, for service 20th - 31st Oct 21", and then on the 1st Nov is sent their next invoice "invoice now due for £30, for service 1st - 30th Nov 2021".... Then that is exactly what i want!!!! : )
cinder seal
Hey, sorry about missing your message in the main channel for a bit. Catching up and will get back to you in a bit
hoary furnace
Thank you Pompey! Ps) This Discord channel is brilliant!!!! Why have i been using the generic 'web chat' help on the main website! LOL
cinder seal
Can you explain why there is a £20 charge on Nov 1 in this scenario?
hoary furnace
Sure, what i was discussing with Karllekko is the fact - 'how do i deal with mid-monthly signed up subscribers' .....
cinder seal
If you create a subscription like this. My understanding is it would be a £10 charge now due to proration and they would be charged the full £30 for next month
hoary furnace
If you create a subscription like this. My understanding is it would be a £10 ch...
That's what Karllekko suggested as well, and that is perfect for what i need to do! So, to look at this for the reverse (Mid-month cancellations), would it just be the same e.g.) ....
"Subscriber signed up on 20th October 2021 and is using our (£30 per subscriber per month) service and they decide to quit our service on 20th Dec 2021"
They would have the following invoices: Invoice 1 - £10, for service from 20th Oct 2021 to 31st Oct 2021, payment due 20th October 2021. Invoice 2 - £30, for service from 1st Nov 2021 to 30th Nov 2021, payment due 1st Nov 2021. Invoice 3 - £30, for service from 1st Dec 2021 to 31st Dec 2021, payment due 1st Dec 2021......
Subscriber cancels service on 20th Dec 2021 (after paying their £30 invoice on 1st Dec 2021).....
We then use STRIPE to issue a refund invoice/payment for £10 (for service only covering 1st Dec 2021 to 20th Dec 2021).
Is this correct? Can we use STRIPE, as per this guide .... https://stripe.com/docs/billing/subscriptions/billing-cycle#new-subscriptions to achieve this?
cinder seal
You are right about all of the invoices they would receive. You could also refund them the 10 when they cancel but I believe that would also hit you with a refund fee.