dan-classfit_cards-auth-errors | Stripe Developers | Page 1

fathom tartanBOT Nov 18, 2024, 3:03 PM

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dan-classfit_error, 37 minutes ago, 43 messages
dan-classfit_error, 4 days ago, 21 messages

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:04 PM

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Hi. I've had a couple of threads around this. Last one finished saying we could disable zipcode match at a country level. When we've tried we've been told we can't do this without upgrading to the paid radar plan. Can you support please.

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We only need this to overcome a known Stripe bug while our customers in Ireland can't take payments. Seems silly that we would either have to upgrade and pay to overcome a stripe bug, or disable zipcode match globally and increase risk substantially.

white brookBOT Nov 18, 2024, 3:07 PM

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rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:08 PM

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Hi there 👋 I recall discussing this with you previously. You do need to be a Radar for Fraud Teams subscriber in order to write your own custom Radar rules.

Can you elaborate on what the known bug is here?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:13 PM

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customers in ireland aren't able to take payment

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estimates of 50%+ payment attempts failing, with an Eircode not matching error

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It's been over a week now.

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:13 PM

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What is an Eircode?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:14 PM

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What they call zip code in Ireland

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:14 PM

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Do you have an example payment that failed, the ID of the Payment Intent?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:14 PM

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They don't register as far as we can see - part of the bug

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I can give you express account IDs for the two customers who have raised this

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:15 PM

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A Payment Intent must exist if an AVS check is failing.

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Otherwise what is doing the check?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:15 PM

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If they exist, I've not been able to locate them

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acct_1PyERWPMrjVzxHLp
acct_1PuGsFPL8kfqWlLt

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These are the 2 Express accounts

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And don't have the end user details to search otherwise

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:17 PM

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Removing that sceenshot as it appeared to have real customer data and was posted in this public server.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:18 PM

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but both businesses are effectively offline until either Stripe fix the bug, or we figure out a workaround. I was happy to disable zipcode match requirement if I could do it via country, but we can't be expected to upgrade to radar for teams and considerable expense just to work around a Stripe bug. Any other options?

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:19 PM

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Is this a Separate Charges and Transfers flow that you're using for your Connect integration?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 3:19 PM

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I don't know what that means...

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 3:20 PM

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The Stripe Connect integration that you built and maintain, did you build it using the Separate Charges and Transfers charge type that we discuss here?
https://docs.stripe.com/connect/charges

I'm asking because if so, the failed payments are expected to be on the Connected Accounts, they'll be on your Platform account.

Create a charge

Create a charge and split payments between your platform and your sellers or service providers.

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I suspect this because I didn't see any logs on the first Connected Account that you shared that give me the impresison you're using Direct or Destionation Charge flows.

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Hm, maybe they are Destination Charges. Is this an example of a failed one?
https://dashboard.stripe.com/logs/req_zAqndwMKMyZyps
pi_3QMVvXAsUHpP4Znk0RlUiev4

Stripe Login | Sign in to the Stripe Dashboard

Sign in to the Stripe Dashboard to manage business payments and operations in your account. Manage payments and refunds, respond to disputes and more.

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I see we sent the same postal code value to the issuer as we were provided, and that the issuer told us that value was incorrect.

If the value is correct, then the bug seems to be on the issuer's side when they verify that value rather than on Stripe's.

My understanding is these concerns typically get fixed fastest when your customers reach out to their bank to make sure the bank (issuer) is aware of the problem, as Stripe has little influence on the customer's banks.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:25 PM

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Sorry for the delay

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it could be an example

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But with this being a known Stripe error, and us having confirmed that to our clients - I'm not sure how feasible it is for me to ask our clients to ask all of their clients to contact their banks

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:26 PM

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Not a Stripe error.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:26 PM

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And, you know how it is - they'll speak to some noddy person on customer support who won't raise the issue from a technical side either

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:27 PM

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rapid skiff Not a Stripe error.

I thought you confirmed this was a known Stripe error the other day in our chat?

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:27 PM

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We don't do the postal code checks, we use the outcome values that the issuing banks provide us.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:27 PM

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So as of last week, all Irish banks at the same time developed the same issue?

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:28 PM

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I don't know, it's really hard to say since you haven't been able to share any examples with me. Did you look into the failed payments to see if they were scattered across banks, or if they're all concentrated at one bank?

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:30 PM

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Are you able to guide me on how I can find these - I'm happy to do the work

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Initial thought is 2 clients, both saying that 50% of customers' payments failing is unlikely to result in it being just the one bank, unless there is a monopoly on banks in Ireland

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:34 PM

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I'm not exactly sure a good way to filter these from a dashboard view, that isn't something we are too familiar with in this forum. I'll poke around between threads and see if I can spot a good path for that.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:35 PM

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In the meantime - any clever workaround you can think of without needing to pay for radar for teams?

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Seems chaotic that businesses are just meant to wait indefinitely for a fix here....?

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:39 PM

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No, not without somewhat significant changes to your integration.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:40 PM

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I've got 2

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pi_3QKKFeAsUHpP4Znk192KDace

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pi_3QKK9VAsUHpP4Znk0nrxfVFq

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Same customer

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Another customer screenshot

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When I check her account on Stripe I can't see any payment intents that failed despite having this screenshot as proof

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Setup intent is the closest I can get seti_1QErvrAsUHpP4ZnklzeB6lC4

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:44 PM

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The two payment intents you shared are for the same issuer as the one I shared.

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Please stop posting screenshots with customer details. This is a public forum.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:45 PM

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Sorry

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:45 PM

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Stick with object IDs

fathom tartanBOT Nov 18, 2024, 4:46 PM

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thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:46 PM

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OK here are some more

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pi_3QMUvRAsUHpP4Znk0frbmH5y

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pi_3QMUAhAsUHpP4Znk0p8W7f3x

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:46 PM

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thorny geyser pi_3QMUvRAsUHpP4Znk0frbmH5y

Same issuer as the others

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You can see that in your Stripe dashboard

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In the Payment Method section, in the Issuer field

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:47 PM

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thorny geyser pi_3QMUAhAsUHpP4Znk0p8W7f3x

Different bank, but matches at least one of the attempts for the Setup Intent you shared earlier.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:49 PM

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So is that confirmation this isn't an issue specific to bank of ireland?

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:52 PM

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I never mentioned a specific bank, there are two distinct banks in the examples you shared, but it's very possible for two banks to be handling postal code checks incorrectly simultaneously.

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(I won't mention bank names, as these are real payments and I'm not willing to disclose information about them in a public forum)

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:55 PM

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I've found an export of all zipcode errors. Filtered to just these 2 businesses in Ireland.

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I can provide if you're happy for me to - but I assume there is some personal data in there

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otherwise here is a list of all payment intent IDs

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pi_3QMUGuAsUHpP4Znk0zO49zke
pi_3QMUH8AsUHpP4Znk0Yp7dPZq
pi_3QMUCMAsUHpP4Znk0c82aBMH
pi_3QMUAhAsUHpP4Znk0p8W7f3x
pi_3QMRV8AsUHpP4Znk1a7y3oNR
pi_3QMRTeAsUHpP4Znk0bkN8bYI
pi_3QMRRXAsUHpP4Znk0AjKYKnE
pi_3QMRQiAsUHpP4Znk1XP1WUdp
pi_3QMRNeAsUHpP4Znk0wRKf43y
pi_3QMGAxAsUHpP4Znk1U0jNo0w
pi_3QMG5AAsUHpP4Znk1hloh1Ci
pi_3QMF76AsUHpP4Znk0NtP7L29
pi_3QMF46AsUHpP4Znk0UI5UkF2
pi_3QMF1zAsUHpP4Znk0LO5RcvA
pi_3QMF0FAsUHpP4Znk0mmEao8T
pi_3QMEzIAsUHpP4Znk17nMeOLq
pi_3QMEylAsUHpP4Znk0bbOl8tE
pi_3QMEefAsUHpP4Znk0xLfpaaj
pi_3QMEakAsUHpP4Znk0ayxEpkN
pi_3QMEaPAsUHpP4Znk1YgSnldI
pi_3QME3uAsUHpP4Znk1ZerREdk
pi_3QMDizAsUHpP4Znk1RYMacha
pi_3QMDezAsUHpP4Znk0sB5APqp
pi_3QMDcvAsUHpP4Znk0Sgzs42c
pi_3QMDa2AsUHpP4Znk0HqXi5Ka
pi_3QMDDRAsUHpP4Znk05gfJAn0
pi_3QMDAiAsUHpP4Znk0Lgjwu3c
pi_3QMD5nAsUHpP4Znk0w2Mwwn8
pi_3QMD3tAsUHpP4Znk1aQWsnQS
pi_3QMD2KAsUHpP4Znk1PQswK3K
pi_3QMS4CAsUHpP4Znk0E0GCEl3
pi_3QL3GYAsUHpP4Znk1R31XwOj
pi_3QL13eAsUHpP4Znk0muygL5n
pi_3QKlx6AsUHpP4Znk08my27xx
pi_3QKltBAsUHpP4Znk0XHChHl2
pi_3QKlqtAsUHpP4Znk1pIFam4m
pi_3QKKFeAsUHpP4Znk192KDace
pi_3QKK9VAsUHpP4Znk0nrxfVFq
pi_3QJhATAsUHpP4Znk0KfAG2XW
pi_3QJf9vAsUHpP4Znk1nD1o4pI
pi_3QGShEAsUHpP4Znk07GCfHVC
pi_3QGSXKAsUHpP4Znk0mvP4xEq
pi_3QCcRvAsUHpP4Znk0QlgAfq4
pi_3QCcObAsUHpP4Znk1PaKsQMq
pi_3QCcMBAsUHpP4Znk1HfhGTdp
pi_3QCGbvAsUHpP4Znk0OnWZgeo
pi_3QCGasAsUHpP4Znk1VM1CJxk
pi_3QCGaOAsUHpP4Znk0kLSsogi
pi_3QCGaeAsUHpP4Znk0bRz4eES
pi_3PXuC9AsUHpP4Znk0DGPtfs0
pi_3OfAEIAsUHpP4Znk1960gD61

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:57 PM

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I didn't see any personal data in the snippet of the shared file initially, but it was removed before I could look closer.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:57 PM

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I'll re-add

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📎 Payments_Matching_Rule_Export_V1_2017-08-13_to_2024-11-17.csv

rapid skiff Nov 18, 2024, 4:57 PM

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Did you go through those? I really don't need much more context here. The banks are telling us the provided postal code is wrong. If the value is actually correct, the bug is on the issuing banks side and our checks are behaving as expected.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 4:59 PM

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We've had people try 3 cards, their's, their moms and their husbands. Is it really likely that they got the zipcode wrong on all of them?

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And the rate of failure across just the Irish businesses, just in the last week

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Half of Ireland all of sudden forgot their zipcode

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Realistically I think we can see there is a problem here

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And that's either, 1 bank, or a group of banks reliant on the same software has a bug. Or Stripe has a bug.

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:00 PM

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HI 👋

I'm stepping in as my colleague needs to go

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:00 PM

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Hi Snufkin

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Hopefully you can see the issue here and help?

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:03 PM

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It looks like this is a known incident with specific Irish banks/card issuers. You should have received multiple communications about this. I'm still reviewing the recommended actions for more details

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:04 PM

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Neither ClassFit or our customers seem to have received any comms around this - other than when we've reached out here directly. Generic support didn't seem to know about it either.

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But more improtantly, our clients' businesses are effectively shut down until we solve this, or find a workaround

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Which I'm hoping you can help with...

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:06 PM

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I see the general guidances is to turn off block_if_wrong_zip Radar rule

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:07 PM

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We don't have radar for teams

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So our options are

upgrade and pay a premium to solve a bug which isn't ours
Turn off worldwide and assume all risk for this ourselves
Don't turn off at all.

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I did ask for a country or user option but we need radar for teams for that...

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:08 PM

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Unfortunately that is the case. From what I can gather, the IE banks unexpectedly began performing AVS checks which led to lower card auth rates

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:10 PM

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Is the suggestion here that this is performing bug free, and that our Irish customers are just getting their own postcodes wrong over and over again?

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:10 PM

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No

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At least, not that I can gather

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:11 PM

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So if the error doesn't sit with 50+ customers, which I agree is unlikely, it must sit with either multiple banks, or Stripe right?

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Unless I'm missing a third option?

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:13 PM

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It appears that at least 3 large Irish banks are performing AVS checks incorrectly and responding to our auth checks with failures.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:14 PM

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I don't want this to sound loaded....

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But why do Stripe think the problem lies with 3 separate banks, rather than Stripe?

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(and it may do - I just always look to a single point of failure before assuming multiple separate points of failure)

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:17 PM

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I'm still catching up on all the documentation (this has been ongoing for a while) but I know that we can see internally what your customers enter and follow those same values all the way through to network conversation we have with issuing banks without any change in the values.

And we've been investigating this since last Tuesday

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:19 PM

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So as things stand, Stripe's stance is there's nothing to fix internally, multiple Irish Banks have initiated AVS checks at the same time ( I assume to meet some legislation deadline) and they've done it erroneously so until they fix it nobody paying online with those banks will be able to make any payments?

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:19 PM

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Customers will be able to make payments if merchants disable the block_if_wrong_zip radar rule

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:20 PM

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Which Stripe only allow to do at a country level if we upgrade to Radar for teams. So we need to:

Pay more
Increase risk
Lose our Irish clients?

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Seems to be a tough spot we're being put in here...

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:22 PM

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Yes, I'm reviewing the back-and-forth about this situation

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:26 PM

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Thanks - any workaround that doesn't involve the above 3 painful options will be appreciated

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:27 PM

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My colleague has reached out for clarification but unfortunately I don't see any clear next steps other than the Radar rule recommendation.

The issuing banks appear to consider the fact that they are authorizing the payments sufficient, even if they do return an incorrect AVS check value.

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:28 PM

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Are stripe in communication with the banks about these issues, or just waiting for them to figure it out on their own?

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:29 PM

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We are in active communication with the banks and communicated with them by last Wednesday (or ealier, still back-scrolling).

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At this point the best approach you can take would be to write in to Support https://support.stripe.com/contact. This will ensure you receive communications about remediation efforts and any additional support we can offer your account

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:36 PM

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We already have a ticket open

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Their response was essentially sucks to be you - please wait, no timeline.

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which our Irish customers loved...

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They also seemingly had no clue about the issue.

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I had to inform them based on my prior support here

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:38 PM

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That is understandable. Unfortunately there isn't much more I can offer since this is no longer and coding or API integration question

thorny geyser Nov 18, 2024, 5:38 PM

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OK - well thanks for your support.

dapper kelp Nov 18, 2024, 5:40 PM

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I know it is frustrating but I would push back on that open ticket and request additional investigation.

fathom tartanBOT Nov 18, 2024, 5:42 PM

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dan-classfit_ie-avs-errors

#dan-classfit_cards-auth-errors