#jcs_trial-decline
muted oreBOT
👋 Welcome to your new thread!
⏲️ We'll be here soon! Typically we respond in a few minutes, but sometimes we might take a bit longer if the server is busy or if you have a particularly tricky question.
⏱️ We close idle threads, which makes them read-only. Once a thread is closed it won't be reopened, but you can always start a new thread if you have another question.
🔗 This thread will always be available, even after it's closed. You can find it again using Discord's search, or you can save this link: https://discord.com/channels/841573134531821608/1298310740037341194
📝 Have more to share? Add more details, code, screenshots, videos, etc. below.
Below are links to other discussions we've had with you in the past week in case you want to review that information. If your question is related to one of these previous discussions, please provide a comprehensive summary of the current state and what you need help with now. We help many users simultaneously, so a summary allows us to resolve your issue as soon as possible.
- jcs_3ds-setup-cardelement, 6 days ago, 16 messages
placid gyro
Wondering what best practices are and what creative stratigies we can implement to reduce the amount of declines. Im assuming they're bad cards or something because so many of the subscriptions fail even without the user un-subscribing
or, is the only way to get rid of the free trial and charge users fully up-front. Would love to know if a small test transcation of $0.01 or $1 would suffice to make sure that we have a real card and would that reduce declines
mortal micaBOT
polar kettle
Hi 👋 declines can happen for a variety of reasons, and if you haven't looked into the types of declines you're receiving it's going to be hard to know what may help avoid those.
Have you taken a look at why the payments are being declined?
placid gyro
Yeah 1 min let me get the list
muted oreBOT
placid gyro
so, insufficient funds is a major cause, i think 3-4 of them were that
Then another, 3ds was successful but then got incorrect card number
basically, on our front-end i can architect it however we want, i just want to make sure when we get a users card details and they get their free trial, that we can actually bill that customer when the time comes
so if that means getting rid of the trial, or charging $1 upfront
i can do that, but getting so many failed transactions im not sure makes sense
polar kettle
Well charging $1 up front doesn't protect you from insufficient funds, the funds may still not be there when you try to charge them later even if you charge them a small amount up front.
How are you collecting payment method details from your customers currently? Are you using Setup Intents?
placid gyro
just a small note -- The product is $9.99
so you may be right, but im assuming if they have $1 they probably have $10? maybe a bad assumption but its not like we're charging a huge amount where the user has no balance elft
Yeah we're using setup intents
autumn scroll
jcs_trial-decline
yeah having a "paid trial" does help in a way because people who "abuse" trials by just changing card numbers and such will be more reticent to pay $1 upfront
placid gyro
Yeah thats what i was thinking - im trying to figure out whats actually happening because i dont think these users are using real cards
have a hard time believing we're getting 80% failed cuz people dont have $9 in their bank account
i think they're using some spam card generator or something to bypass free trials
and if we can detect that upfront by charging some amount $1 or $0.01 just to proove that the card is real and has a balance
or am i fully wrong and these are legitmate card failures?
hot yarrow
Hi, I am not from the stripe team, just a stripe user.
my suggestion would be you create a payment intent for $1 with manual capture, after the intent status is requires_capture
you can attach the payment method to the customer and start a subscription with a trial period.
(also do not capture the payment and then refund it, you will have the pay the 30 cents +2.9% fees then)
(This method is Used by discord for nitro trials)
placid gyro
Ah interesting
And with this method, are you actually debiting the $1 or just creating the intent and then not actually going through with it?
hot yarrow
You can cancel the payment intent after, it will refund the customer without charging you a fee.
(refund time varies from bank to banks)
placid gyro
got it, ur a genius
autumn scroll
Well this is against out ToS
placid gyro
oh, then nevermind lol
autumn scroll
making fake authorization but not capture to get away with not paying the fee is clearly abuse
hot yarrow
Well this is against out ToS
This is exactly what discord does, if am not wrong?
autumn scroll
also card networks really don't like it when merchants go and hold funds just to check if the account has money, so yeah don't do that
placid gyro
koopajah is it against ToS if we refund the amount and pay the 30 cents + 2.9%
autumn scroll
I can't speak to what users do sorry, I'm telling you that it's not allowed. This is abusing the API to just check if someone has money
placid gyro
or is that okay
autumn scroll
and ultimately it won't help you, once fraudsters discover this they will let you do it, then get the refund and then block the card
placid gyro
or rather, can we just make it a $1 for 7 day trial
autumn scroll
yeah paid trial without a refund is a better path forward
placid gyro
got it - i'll work on the wording and see how it affects conversion rates and ultimately failure rates
And there's no temporary charge mechanism in the API correct? like when i connect my bank account with Plaid and they generate a $0.01 transaction to confirm the account is real
autumn scroll
that's what authorization and capture is for which is what SAM was talking about but you can't just do that to check if someone has funds
placid gyro
is it possible our auth / capture implementation is causing these failure issues? Or is historically this a known thing where people are using fake card generators for free trials
autumn scroll
I don't really get your question
placid gyro
cuz basically the auth is getting spoofed by the user
they're passing the authentication but then the cards are bogus
autumn scroll
You have a free trial, people are trying to abuse this, and if you switch to a real paid trial it will help.
placid gyro
kk
one last question - sorry trying to come up with creative ways to solve this problem
If we do a free trial with a $1 temp charge, and then refund that $$ if they unsubscribe (meaning we eat the 2.9% + 30c) , thats allowed right? So either they unsubscribe and they get their $1 back, or they convert to a paid user
autumn scroll
that could work but if I were you I would make it a paid trial to start and see how that changes your numbers.
placid gyro
when you say paid trial, im not sure i totally get it. Wouldnt that just be them paying and not having any trial?
The product is $9.99 / month.... so just charging them that upfront rather than giving any trial?
autumn scroll
They pay $1 for the trial period and then they switch to $9.99/month after the trial
autumn scroll
sounds good!
placid gyro
thanks for your help!