bhanu365

[short wedge]

HI there 👋

There are a couple things in your post that I'd like to unpack.

You mention that you're using Destination Charges, and that flow automatically transfers funds to your Connected Accounts. So the part where you're receiving the error, are you trying to make a Transfer from your Platform account to your Connected account, or are you trying to process a Payout (moving funds from a Stripe account to an external bank account)?

[indigo willow]

not automatically

I am doing payout manually

I already described

We have express account

$payout = \Stripe\Payout::create([
'amount' => ($pay_amount * 100),
'currency' => $pay_amount_currency,
], [
'stripe_account' => $booking->user->stripe_account_id,
]);

?

[unkempt bronze]

Hi there. Taking over for toby as they have to step out. Do you have the minimum payout amount in SGD and USD for accounts based in GB? https://stripe.com/docs/payouts/alternative-currencies#alternative-currency-payouts-fees

[indigo willow]

Yes I have

[unkempt bronze]

Ok can you share the request id for the payout that is failing here? https://support.stripe.com/questions/finding-the-id-for-an-api-request

[indigo willow]

But this error is not showing in log in stripe dashboard

[unkempt bronze]

Oh so that error says ach specifically is too low

You can specify the source type here: https://stripe.com/docs/api/payouts/create#create_payout-source_type

[indigo willow]

I already did

$payout = \Stripe\Payout::create([
'amount' => ($pay_amount * 100),
'currency' => $pay_amount_currency,
'source_type' => 'card',
], [
'stripe_account' => $booking->user->stripe_account_id,
]);

[unkempt bronze]

Ok. In the logs section of your dashboard, can you select more and then check "outgoing connect requests". Does the request show up in the log then?

[indigo willow]

See, not showing that particular error related to payout

[unkempt bronze]

Did you do this?

[indigo willow]

req_ibLq3Txey1m22M

[unkempt bronze]

I'm not seeing available USD balance on that connect account. I think you're looking at your platform account's balances

The payout endpoint transfers funds from your connect account balance to your connect account bank account

You can't directly payout from your platform account's balance to your connect account's bank account. You would first need to transfer funds to your connect account and then do a payout. However, you said you're doing destination charges, so destination charges should automatically transfer the funds to the connect account balance first

[indigo willow]

Yes, but we don't want to automatically, for this stripe support has suggested us to use

\Stripe\Account::update($this->user->stripe_account_id,['settings' => ['payouts' => ['schedule' => ['interval' => 'manual']]]]);

We want to payout manually to our international connected account

[unkempt bronze]

I think you're confusing transfers with payouts. Transfers are when you transfer funds from your platform account balance to your connect account balance. payotus are when you transfer funds from your connect account balance to your connect account bank account

Currently that connect account doesn't have a balance in usd to be paid out

[indigo willow]

connect account balance and connect account bank account? Are you referring to our connected account means like our vendor account?

I am getting confuse

[unkempt bronze]

Connect account (https://stripe.com/docs/connect) is the account you passed in the stripe account header not sure if that's what you mean by vendor account. When I say connect account bank account, I'm referring to the bank account that is attached to that Connect account where funds will be paid out to. In Stripe, a transfer refers to moving money from stripe account -> a stripe connect account. A payout refers to moving money from a Stripe account or Connect account -> the attached bank account to that account.

So what are you really trying to do in this scenario? Transfer funds from platform balance to connect balance?

[indigo willow]

yes but not in connect balance, we will transfer in their bank account

[unkempt bronze]

You can't do that unless the connect balance has funds. It's impossible to transfer funds from the platform balance direct to the connect bank account. The funds must first exist in the connect account's balance (which destination charges should automatically handle that transfer). Are you actually doing separate charges and transfers? https://stripe.com/docs/connect/charges-transfers

It's also just possible that you are using destination charges but haven't made enough for that connect account to have that balance

[ashen brook]

Hi hi, I am working with Bhanu, and is trying to understand between Payout and Transfers.

Am I right to say that:
Payout = moving money out of Stripe to a Bank
Transfer = moving money within Stripe. So e.g. from our Stripe balance to Connect (Coach's Stripe) account

[unkempt bronze]

Yes you're correct

And payouts can only be done within the same account

[ashen brook]

Yup, so we are trying to resolve the transfers.

But it is strange that we do not have balance in our Stripe account.

So at inception, clients who found Users on our platform will schedule, book and pay for the services.

Once the service has taken place, we would then use this payment to transfer the fund to to the Users

So does it means we are not capturing the payment at the inception correctly and has no balance in our Stripe to do the transfer?

[unkempt bronze]

That's possible. If you are doing destination charges, the transfers should automatically be executed and the connect accounts should have the proper balance. Is this what you're doing? https://stripe.com/docs/connect/destination-charges

[ashen brook]

Yes, it does sounds like what we want. We are taking a commission (application fee) as shown in the link you have sent. The stripe fees would be covered by the connect account too.

However we do not want the transfer to be immediate.

The transfer should be made only once the service has taken place, which can be eg. couple of days or maybe in a few weeks.

Can this be achieved with the destination charge model?

[unkempt bronze]

Ah no that would be the separate charges and transfers flow here: https://stripe.com/docs/connect/charges-transfers. There are restrictions though (outlined in the yellow box)

[indigo willow]

Ok, Can we transfer internationally with the help of charges and transfers?

Our account is Singapore based

[ashen brook]

Yes, so if let's say we switch to Separate Charges and Transfer flow, are we allowed to do international Transfers (not payout).

So our Stripe account is SG based.

A User signed up with us based in e,g, US or Europe and create a Stripe Connect account.

Then client make a booking and pay on our platform.

Once the service has concluded, we transfer the funds from our Stripe account to the Users Connect account

[unkempt bronze]

Doesn't look like cross border transfers would be supported:
Stripe supports separate charges and transfers in the following regions: Australia, Brazil, Canada, Europe, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, Singapore, and the U.S. Separate charges and transfers are supported if both your platform and the connected account are in the same region (for example, both in Australia). For cross-region support, see the cross-border transfers docs.

Here's the cross region info: https://stripe.com/docs/connect/account-capabilities#transfers-cross-border

[ashen brook]

How about this:

Alternatively, you can facilitate international payouts by using the card_payments capability to make charges directly on Standard connected accounts. Stripe strongly discourages using direct charges for Custom and Express accounts.

Would this work for Cross-border transfers with Separate Charges & Transfers?

[unkempt bronze]

If you're making direct charges, then transfers don't even come into play. https://stripe.com/docs/connect/direct-charges

[ashen brook]

For us, it would be flexible to use either Direct charges or Transfer.

As long as we can make international payout/transfers
And we can "schedule" the payout/transfers only once the service has concluded.

Because of the restrictions, think our solution is to know which one can cater to our needs, then we'll implement that way.

[unkempt bronze]

So you will use a mix of Standard accounts and Express?

[ashen brook]

Hmm... not too sure yet. Unless having a standard account is the only way to fit our business?

Cos we will definitely need to fulfil this 2 requirements:

1. Make payments to our Users internationally
2. Payments are made only after the service has concluded

[unkempt bronze]

Yeah. We just strongly recommend doing direct charges on Standard accounts only

[indigo willow]

we have Express account

[ashen brook]

And once the Users have standard accounts, then our business requirements would be alright?

[unkempt bronze]

Yeah if you need to do direct charges, it's strongly recommended you go with Standard accounts, but you need to read the docs and weigh all the pros and cons of all these choices. Connect is a very detailed thing. I recommend thoroughly reading the following links:
https://stripe.com/docs/connect/accounts
https://stripe.com/docs/connect/standard-accounts and https://stripe.com/docs/connect/direct-charges
https://stripe.com/docs/connect/express-accounts and https://stripe.com/docs/connect/charges-transfers
You may find that using Standard accounts for everything isn't ideal, but it's important to read the above to understand the choices you are making

[ashen brook]

Thanks alot for the links! Let me discuss with my partners first, and also to read the links

I have no more questions for today now (:

[unkempt bronze]

Yeah sounds good. Best of luck!

[ashen brook]

Thank you so much! And thanks for your time.