#skoshkarli-sub-default_incomplete

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

final kernel
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Hi there! When you create a Subscription with a Trial it will automatically become active and does not require you to collect a payment method up front.

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To be clear, the Subscription started with a trial will also include a pending_setup_intent which gives you the option to collect a payment method or not.

formal carbon
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we setup our subscriptions with default_incomplete because we don't activate them until we call confirmPayment

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but there is one case where we want to activate them immediately

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and not collect payment

final kernel
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Yep then a trial is proper for that.

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Also to clarify, the status will be trialing not active... I previously mispoke.

formal carbon
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so would i call update on subscription to go from default_incomplete to trialing?

final kernel
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Nope

formal carbon
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so setup initially then with trialing?

final kernel
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You can create with default_incomplete and just set a trial period and the Sub will be created with status: trialing

formal carbon
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oh

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so what about other users that i want on trial, but i want to collect payment from without activating their subscription?

final kernel
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Sorry that doesn't really make sense to me? How are you going to have a Subscription on trial but also collect payment and have their Subscription not be active?

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Can you clarify what you mean exactly?

formal carbon
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so i have a few different flows

  1. create sub with default incomplete with a trial period based on the product, collect payment from customer then call stripe.confirmPayment to activate
  2. create a sub with default incomplete without a trial period based on the product, collect payment from customer then call stripe.confirmPayment to activate
  3. create a sub with default incomplete with a trial, don't collect payment from customer and immediately activate that sub so that they can use product without providing payment
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in flow 3, their sub would just expire at end of trial, unless they updated the payment info

final kernel
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Okay so for the first scenario does your Subscription actually have a trial period set for it?

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Like there is no payment to collect and nothing to call stripe.confirmPayment() on if you are actually setting a trial period.

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Can you provide an example Subscription ID for this scenario that I could look at?

formal carbon
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wouldn't i get a pending_setup_intent that i would use to pass to confirmPayment?

final kernel
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You pass the client_secret of the pending_setup_intent to confirmSetup()

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Not confirmPayment

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So that may have been what was confusing me

formal carbon
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in your docs it says

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so you are saying i need to call confirmSetup instead of confirmPayment?

final kernel
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If you set an actual trial period then yes.

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But that is only if you want to actually collect a payment method

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The Subscription is going to be "active" (really status: trialing) regardless of whether you collect the payment method or not if you start it with a trial

formal carbon
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what if i don't start it with trial, but then update it to a trial right before confirming payment?

midnight meteor
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HI 👋 I'm stepping in for @final kernel . Give me a minute to catch up

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Okay so to be clear. if you are using a trial period, then you won't collect payment initially. That's the point of a free trial.

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You can collect the Payment Method and in that case this payment method can be billed automatically once the trial ends.

formal carbon
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but i don't want users to have a subscription until they provided payment in some cases

midnight meteor
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Okay, in that case wouldn't you just not have a trial period at all and collect payment up front?

formal carbon
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i can't collect payment until i have a payment intent

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this is what you guys told me to do before

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i am using stripe elements

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in a custom checkout page

midnight meteor
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If you generate a Subscription without a trial period it will automatically create a Payment Intent

formal carbon
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right, thats what i am doing

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but i will need to add a trial period before making the sub active

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how can i do that?

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i am going to be calling stripe.confirmpayment on the intent

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and if payment succeeds, i want to give them the trial

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and activate the sub

midnight meteor
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If you are collecting payment, the sub should be active (which is how subs behave by default).

formal carbon
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again, we are using default_incomplete

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      payment_settings: { save_default_payment_method: 'on_subscription' },```
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calling stripe.confirmPayment

midnight meteor
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Which confirms the payment and transitions the sub to active

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Because the customer has paid. There is no trial in that case

formal carbon
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so how can i achieven what i am trying to do?

midnight meteor
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You either collect payment up front or offer a free trial.

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If you collect payment, that's not a free trial

formal carbon
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how can i collect payment upfront using StripeElements if it requires payment intent?

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you guys told me to do this

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so i built all this based on what you told me

midnight meteor
formal carbon
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free trial or not, why does collecting payment cancel out free trial?

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doesn't make sense

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you can offer a trial and collect payment information

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you are not charging

midnight meteor
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Sure

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That's the Setup Intent

formal carbon
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do you have a flow that shows a trial?

midnight meteor
formal carbon
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so then going back to the question i asked before

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can i technically update the subscription with a trial right before i call confirmPayment?

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i guess that may leave the user with a trial if the payment fails though

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which doesn't make sense

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so how can i achieven what i am trying to do?

midnight meteor
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Your process still makes 0 sense to me. If you collect payment, there isn't a free trial. Because the customer paid already.

formal carbon
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i am not collecting payment

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i am collecting payment information

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so that when trial expires

midnight meteor
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Okay that is very different

formal carbon
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it can charge it

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so my current flow is

  1. Create a customer
  2. Create a sub for that customer
  3. Use the clientSecret to render Payment Elements
  4. Collect payment information and call stripe.confirmPayment with the paymentElements
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what do i need to change to make sure i am able to provide a free trial

midnight meteor
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Okay so when you create the sub for the customer, you include the trial period.

formal carbon
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right now i dont, but i can add that in

midnight meteor
formal carbon
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would it cause an email to go out to customer that their subscription has been setup in 'trialing' though?

midnight meteor
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You then use the client_secret from that setup intent to render the payment Element and call stripe.confirmSetup() to save the payment method

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That is up to your account settings

formal carbon
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so here is another follow up

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on my payment page, i have multiple products that they can select

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if they decide to choose another product

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(maybe one that doesn't have a trial)

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can i update the subscription to not include the trial anymore at that point?

midnight meteor
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So this is after the user has selected their products, confirmed their subscription, and provided a payment method?

formal carbon
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no, initially i select a default product, but on the payment page, before they provide payment method, they have an option to select another product

midnight meteor
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Short answer: Yes. You can update the subscription with trial_end='now'

formal carbon
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ok so if i set it to trial_end now, what will the status of the subscription be then?

midnight meteor
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incomplete since they still haven't added a payment method

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But honestly I would have the user make the final product selections before you create the subscription

formal carbon
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i can't really make the final selection before creating the sub, because our selections are on a payment page and i am required to setup the sub because i need the client secret, so i am kinda stuck

midnight meteor
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Well wait, sorry not too complicated ( think that was just a misunderstanding about collecting payment vs collecting payment methods)

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Yeah, a less than ideal approach is to create a new subscription, retrieve the new Payment Intent (no trial) or Setup Intent (trial) and re-render the Payment Element.

formal carbon
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yeah

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thanks for the help

midnight meteor
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Sure thing. I hope it comes together

formal carbon
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sorry

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i actually just realized that i still don't have an answer to my first question lol

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is it possible to put a subscription in 'active' status while on a trial without payment information?

midnight meteor
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No, active means the customer has paid. If it's on a trial the status is trialing

formal carbon
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hmm ok. and one more thing i am thinking of, is it possible to add a trial after collecting payment information and calling confirmPayment? or will confirm payment charge the customer right away?

sacred blaze
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Hi 👋 jumping in as my teammate needed to step away. I believe you can update a Subscription to put it into a trialing phase (I would need to test to double check that) but the confirmation step is where we get authorization for a payment from the issuing banks.

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If you want to collect payment method information without processing a payment then you would use a Setup Intent instead.

formal carbon
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what do you mean by use setup intent?

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i already have payment intent because i create a subscription right away

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?

sacred blaze
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Apologies, I'm still catching up on context here and may be overlooking a detail, can you clarify which of the three scenarios that you mentioned previously is the one that this question is about?

formal carbon
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it would be 1 or 2 i guess. I am worried about setting up a subscription with a trial and then have the payment fail when i call confirmPayment

sacred blaze
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I think I'm a little confused overall about what you're trying to accomplish. If you create a Subscription with a trial period, there won't be an associated Payment Intent for you to use. The first Invoice will be a $0 invoice (the trial period is free) that will automatically move to a paid state and the Subscription will move to a trialing status.

Could we try taking a step back, can you describe what the flow you're trying to build looks like without mapping any of it to Stripe objects yet?

formal carbon
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omg

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so when i create a sub, its without a trial

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and that gives me a payment intent right now

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you are saying if i create one with a trial, then it won't give me a payment intent?

sacred blaze
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Correct

formal carbon
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is there a setup intent i can get instead of payment intent?

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how can i collect payment on a subscrtiption that is trialing

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and i need a client_secret to show Stripe Payment Elements

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ok can you answer this:
How does one collect payment on a trial sub using Stripe Elements ?

sacred blaze
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Yes, the Subscription will create a Setup Intent and provide that ID in the pending_setup_intent field within the creation response.

What do you mean collect payment on a Subscription that is trialing? The Subscription will automatically attempt to process a payment when the trial period ends.

Setup Intents also contain client secrets so they can be used with the Payment Element.

sacred blaze
formal carbon
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it can't collect payment if payment info was never provided

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i am trying to collect payment information so that when the trial expires, stripe can automatically charge it

sacred blaze
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That's the point of Setup Intents, they're very similar to Payment Intents but don't actually charge anything.

formal carbon
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Can setup intent be passed to Stripe Elements ?

sacred blaze
formal carbon
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but the one created with subscription, isn't it a payment intent?

sacred blaze
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Which one, can you share an example of what you're referring to?

formal carbon
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ok i founnd it in the docs

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so the setup intent will be there even if a sub is created with a trial for sure?

sacred blaze
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Yes, I've created 4 subscriptions while we've been chatting and the three that had trial periods contained a value within pending_setup_intent.

formal carbon
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so the ones that DON't have a trial period, will not have a pending setup intent?

sacred blaze
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The behavior that drives whether a Setup Intent is created, is whether the Subscription creation requires an initial payment.
https://stripe.com/docs/billing/migration/strong-customer-authentication#scenario-2:~:text=If subscription creation does not require an initial payment and if authentication is recommended while the customer is on-session%2C Stripe Billing automatically creates a SetupIntent.

SCA migration guide for Billing

Update your Billing implementation to support new Strong Customer Authentication (SCA) requirements.