#Single Village 15c/9c accounts should be able to lose the Cropper

471 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

pine orchid
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A cheap tactic in this game is when a Cropper gets Zero'd in an Op, and then the enemy has a nearby Village with Settlers ready. If they succeed in Settling that Cropper, they Zero their other Villages so the only one they have is that 9c/15c, the pure intention being so that Cropper is removed from the rest of the server. Something should be changed so that if an account only has 1 Village, and it's a 9c/15c, if that Village reaches 0 Pop, they still lose that Cropper and relocate to a nearby 6c. Curious on other people's thoughts.

frosty edge
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Agreed - it shouldn't be possible for a dead-end acct to annex the most valuable sites like that

patent compass
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How common is this? I mean the attacking account must be a throw away /multi?

pine orchid
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It's common with multi abusing metas. And yeah the throwaway account is always a multi

patent compass
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Back in the days when I played the old travian there was a rule that an account always had to be played to benefit itself. That rule would be relevant here and thus removing the account in my opinion. Hate multis

pine orchid
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Yeah so long as they remove the problem in whatever way, I don't mind which. I just think the auto relocation from a Cropper being Zero'd is the easiest way to fix it, so that RET team and other teams don't have to monitor it and handle tickets etc. The game just handles the problem automatically

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Because my biggest issue with RET team at the moment is, while they are working hard, they have too much work to do. The way to fix that is via automation with good updates that make it so they have less work to do, and can ultimately get everything done at a higher standard

frosty edge
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That, or make it so a player's last non-cropper village can't be removed if zeroed - then you could still clear the cropper and leave the other vill as the last

pine orchid
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Nah that option would mess up certain early settle playstyles

hoary pine
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How would you protect players that like to legit play with one village?

pine orchid
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That's not exactly someone who's putting in their best efforts for a team, and are just playing a very casual account. So I feel the cons to this locked cropper mechanic outweigh the pros

toxic coral
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If you want to legit play with one village and it gets zeroed then your account is done anyway.

hoary pine
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we played a whole server with a small kingdom of mostly 1 village players
it was a lot of fun, we killed a lot of enemy troops
it was against IYI and would go as far as to say we played our part in helping them lose that server

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playing with one village as a def player, I finished in a respectable 31st place with over 300k def points
and still had over 100k troops left at the end of the server

image.png
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our kingdom came in 5th overall at the end and we'd killed towards 2kk IYI troops

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this was a legit way to play and would invite anyone to try it to see how much fun it was

toxic coral
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That's great, but what does it change with respect to idea of being able to move someone from cropper if it's only village and it was zeroed?

hoary pine
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IYI would've removed us from these croppers we took on day 1 if they were able to

toxic coral
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It's legit play but if you get zeroed during it, you shouldn't be able to block cropper

hoary pine
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it feels like you're trying to cancel fun for some players

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my question was how do you protect legit one village players
it's not for us to treat them as if they are an MA, because not all are

marsh wigeon
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Their kingdom should protect them. And if their one village gets zeroed and settled by enemy, their kingdom can demolish newly settlend enemy village on that spot right back.

hoary pine
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#1229476320652824638 message

pine orchid
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If your single Village gets Zero'd later in the server then your account is cooked regardless. But early on there could be chance to come back.

So as a middle ground, how about you relocate from Cropper only after day 40?

toxic coral
hoary pine
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it's not for us to simply bully someone off a cropper if that's how they choose to play
if someone decides to play with one village, that's their choice
I would say your team needs to find other ways to counter them being able to settle the cropper after having it destroyed
(like have someone closer settle it first maybe)

hoary pine
pine orchid
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Exploitable game mechanics should never be met with the conclusion of "just play better"

hoary pine
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if this suggestion was implemented a lot more players would get bullied off their cropper, just because some bigger bully meta could

pine orchid
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Most players will respond to that with "or I'll just go play better games"

pine orchid
hoary pine
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I'm not

pine orchid
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You are

hoary pine
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I welcome all play styles

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that's not for us to decide

pine orchid
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You're just playing devil's advocate for the sake of it. Or You're just biased towards things you like

toxic coral
pine orchid
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Let's keep in mind this is a war game. If you get completely destroyed, your Cropper rightfully should be forfeit

hoary pine
hoary pine
pine orchid
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It's forfeit when you have 2+ villages. To argue it shouldn't be just because of some casual playstyle, is hiding behind a gameplay exploitation

marsh wigeon
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ok, menhiring 3 chiefs around the map day 90 is fun also, but it got removed because it was abused

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same with this

pine orchid
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There are many niche playstyles over the years that have been unfortunately removed because they were exploited in unfair ways

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This is just 1 of those situations

hoary pine
pine orchid
hoary pine
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I'm just giving you examples of why this isn't really a fair thing to do

toxic coral
hoary pine
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it's one thing to stop a multi, but some people do like to play one village
we should not cancel their ability to play like this, it's their choice

so again my question is how do you protect those players?

marsh wigeon
toxic coral
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Yeah, exactly.

toxic coral
hoary pine
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if there were a way to remove us from those villages, do you not think we would've felt the full effect of the meta, just because they could?

marsh wigeon
hoary pine
marsh wigeon
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because meta couldn't destroy your treasury and settle village ther

hoary pine
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IYI would've

marsh wigeon
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and if they destroy your treasury and settle village in the middle of your kingdom - > you could take it back no problem

toxic coral
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Overall playstyle that you defend is "I'm not relevant target of zeroing because you cannot remove me from the cropper".

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And obviously it is fun to some.

hoary pine
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it was very fun yes

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that 18 players could survive a whole server within 10 fields of IYI WW

marsh wigeon
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anyone can surive with 1 village

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even in the middle of the enemy kingdom

restive junco
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I am in camp allow single villages to be destroyed.

When a single village holder gets his or her village destroyed it should get moved to an empty tile inside the kingdom or otherwise to a tile close to it. Having an enemy kingdom lock a cropper inside borders with a single village account is unfun and its right at the edge of abusing the games mechanics.

Any 2+ village cropper is able to be removed/zero'd. Why not a single village? You chose to play a single village account, if your only village gets destroyed, deal with the consequences.

hoary pine
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yes but whilst doing this we also attacked them and stole a significant amount of VPs from them

marsh wigeon
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try it now with reinforcement restriction

hoary pine
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we didn't just exist

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we played

marsh wigeon
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now you would just exists, nobody can reinforce you now

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so the playstyle is gone

hoary pine
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you saying we didn't defend ourselves?
at 1.7kk def points

marsh wigeon
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thats my point

pine orchid
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The question is how many of those points were achieved because you unfairly couldn't lose your Croppers?

hoary pine
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"unfairly"

pine orchid
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Yes

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You could not lose the Croppers

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Impossible

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Even when completely destroyed

hoary pine
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not to say we weren't targeted

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if they could've had us all on zero pop, they would've

pine orchid
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Why should you get to keep the Croppers if they're destroyed? If you played so well then go do it with 6c

hoary pine
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why do you get to remove a player from it?

toxic coral
pine orchid
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If you can't achieve the same feats after losing your 15c then you're exploiting a game mechanic

hoary pine
pine orchid
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Valid in fun and exploitation

marsh wigeon
hoary pine
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so have a lot of other things too 🙂

marsh wigeon
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or are you trying to say you never received def from another kingdom?

hoary pine
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I think everyone needs to rethink a lot of their play styles before targetting fun

marsh wigeon
pine orchid
toxic coral
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Whole idea of your kingdom was to abuse mechanic to be impossible to remove nuisance. Tbh doesn't matter what they did, you won when you settled croppers.

marsh wigeon
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real issue: treasury cropper in the middle of your kingdom gets zeroed, settled by enemy and enemy original villaged gets destroyed 5s after the settling is done.
Its about this, not about "targeting fun" .

restive junco
pine orchid
hoary pine
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anyhow I feel I have said what i wanted too, I will leave you all now 🙂
hope you all have a fun day, fun is important too

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@pine orchid

warm cairn
marsh wigeon
pine orchid
hoary pine
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just wanted to return the emoji is all 🙂

marsh wigeon
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or make team of 30 people to play 1 village accounts - settle best croppers at the start of world and log once every 2 weeks

hoary pine
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or just defend it, so it doesn't happen
or just deal with it if it does

pine orchid
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Yeah our clown energy is totally mutual here

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Also what is this OP next to my name

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Ohhhh the original poster

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I am the one

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The only

woeful stump
restive junco
marsh wigeon
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there you go

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you found your answer

pine orchid
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Pob likes the playstyle so we can't remove it, even if it's an exploitable mechanic

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If she didn't play it then she'd be all for its removal. Evident when it comes to other topics where she was all for axing the playstyle due to it being exploitable

hoary pine
marsh wigeon
# hoary pine ^^

just defend it, so it doesn't happen
or just deal with it if it does

pine orchid
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Just never lose a battle ever

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Easy fix

hoary pine
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applies to you also
just never lose a cropper
also easy fix 🙂

pine orchid
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Yes I was being sarcastic

hoary pine
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metoo 😛

pine orchid
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To never lose a single battle in a server would be boring

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Just as to lose something permanently from a single battle due to exploitation is bullshit

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Come from behind victories are the best victories. To have those potentially sabotaged due to exploitation is unhealthy for the game

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Anyway it's good to see yet another conversation where everyone disagrees with Pob. That's become quite the trend lately

marsh wigeon
pine orchid
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Yeah that's what I've tried telling her whenever she thinks I'm just targeting her

hoary pine
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please don't make it personal
Thanks yeahthumbsup

pine orchid
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You do it to yourself

marsh wigeon
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i mean def from other kingdoms

hoary pine
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it was a 2 way street

marsh wigeon
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so, you realize that after reinforcement changes its no longer possible?

hoary pine
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and also with reinforcement changes a lot of teams will have to rethink their entire structure

pine orchid
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Heh

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Not my groups

marsh wigeon
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18 players gets stomped by 300

hoary pine
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600 actually

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but hey ho

marsh wigeon
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even better, 18 can do nothing against 600

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it becaomes just sitting on cropper out of spite

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which is the whole argument to be able to catapult 1 village account from that cropper.

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you are arguing against the change with the playstyle that's no longer viable

pine orchid
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If you can't protect something, you don't deserve to keep it. The entire game is literally built around this fundamental design

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WW

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Treasury

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Capital

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Any Village

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The account not losing its final Village is purely there so accounts can't be deleted, because that would be ridiculous. It's not there for people to lock a Cropper all server

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It's an exploitation playstyle

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And yes exploitation playstyles are funny, nobody is denying that. But when it gets taken too far by other players to abuse the most unfair scenarios, that's when the fun of that mechanic needs to end

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This is the norm for any PVP game

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People will find ways to exploit mechanics, and it becomes a meme for a while

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But if it never got fixed, the meme would get old and it would just become anti fun

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Metas need to always change and shift so whatever is most exploitable or abusive never just becomes the entire game

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And that

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Is why TK has a toxic history with its community

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The meta never shifts

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A lot of identified optimal playstyles have been set in stone for so long, and that's why there's so many servers of teams just winning in raw numbers, and not because they played better

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We're finally on the verge of a meta shift with member limit and Reinf changes

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A lot of people are excited for this

hoary pine
pine orchid
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The classic Pob derail

hoary pine
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@pine orchid rolypolyclown

marsh wigeon
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im not supporting meta

hoary pine
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too many people today are just obsessed with everything that can be exploited
even to the point of destroying fun

marsh wigeon
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ok, im done, this is like talking to a wall

hoary pine
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I'm not supporting cheaters and exploits
I'm asking how you can protect innocent players that would also be affected by this

pine orchid
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But the old speed settle and menhir strats were the same dynamic. Learning them was great for a team to gain an edge, but it could also be heavily exploited and be unhealthy for the game

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Defending an exploitation with "git gud"

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This is why you're being seen as biased here

hoary pine
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I'm anti cheat
anti abuse
anti meta
pro new players
pro fun
pro small team play

I will be the first to call any team out on their exploits
but us having a one village kingdom was not an exploit
we were just faster to settle is all shrug

pine orchid
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If you kept your Croppers after they were Zerod, you were exploiting a game design flaw. That's just factual, whether you like it or not. Because the intended design is just to prevent account deletion

hoary pine
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they weren't zero'd, we defended them well

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that IYI tried to use wing kingdoms on us rather than their main hammers was their fault not ours

raven night
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I didn't read everything but some off players like to play with single village because of pop bonus and safe game against operations.

pine orchid
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If they implement this change you can still git gud and we prevent the exploitation

raven night
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In fact, 1 week before the end, I saw that the ww hammer owners destroyed all their villages and left with their capital

hoary pine
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because some players might not be as skilled as we were, it feels like bully tactics would take over even more, just because they could

pine orchid
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Love Good bro you need to scroll through this conversation. That all got answered above

hoary pine
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why because he doesn't agree with it either 😄

pine orchid
hoary pine
pine orchid
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Guys we need to remove siege weapons and chiefs. It enables bully tactics

hoary pine
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🙃

pine orchid
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That's what you sound like

hoary pine
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and yet i'm not here whining because some one village player bested them

pine orchid
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Bested them in a scenario where a game mechanic was exploited to permanently remove their Cropper from the game

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Yes I will whine about something that should not be able to happen

hoary pine
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if the cropper got zero'd it's pretty useless anyway
it's unfortunate
but there are ways to fix it even if it was a treasury

pine orchid
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By the way, your logic of "lesser players would unfairly lose their Croppers" works both ways. Lesser players who haven't experienced a crop lock abuse would be sabotaged by that unfairly

hoary pine
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if there is a way to stop abuse. i'm all for it
but not at the expense of fun and choices in legit gameplay

agile venture
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Yeah I just played one village on Test 5X was amazing

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will do the same on Hahu

pine orchid
agile venture
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Its a brilliant tactic, I think this should not be changed, the solution is cutting down multies

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Leaving option to play 1 village is important

pine orchid
agile venture
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I also calculated a 6c capital is equal to a player with 15c capital and 6 villages in terms of tribute production

hoary pine
marsh wigeon
pine orchid
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Just as permanently crop locking a 15c is abuse

agile venture
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I mean I played 6c but I could do 15c next

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why take away that option

hoary pine
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did you not see how some players gained 1kk res in a few attacks every 10 days just by having 1 multi (and we know they had 10, 20 or 100 multies)
and the advantages that gave them in early game aggression and why so many players left the game?

hoary pine
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in Eggs 1.0

marsh wigeon
hoary pine
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it's fun and less stress and enjoyable
and not cheating
and you'd be surprised how stronk it makes your little kingdom
when everyone has their Cap inside borders within 4 fields of your treasury

agile venture
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But if I have one 15c only and you zero that, then I have no account?

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It doesnt make sense

raven night
agile venture
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If you cut down on multies and have proper kingdom you will settle 15c fast.
Also if you have an Op against you just prepare settlers in advance

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Of course due to Monkey settling multies have additional value of stealint croppers

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I dont like Monkey settling

raven night
hoary pine
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build a L20 resi in the village next to every cropper
build 3 extra settlers
save them for just incase
send settlers to destroyed cropper
and beat the dude with his one village

marsh wigeon
hoary pine
raven night
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Our ww owner had solo village on mayhem 2023, so he stole enemy WW and we built 99 with him

pine orchid
hoary pine
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if you know it can happen, then prepare a counter for it
so it doesn't happen

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there are ways to stop it

pine orchid
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You can use the same argument "if there are ways to get insane res via exploitation in menhirs, then learn how to do it"

hoary pine
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hopefully your one village threat is always more than 5 fields away
or is never allowed to build settlers & lives on zero pop constantly

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if you have settlers 1 field away
you will always beat them

pine orchid
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Defending an exploit with "git gud" is not good design philosophy

hoary pine
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I gave you a legit solution

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roll with it

pine orchid
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It's an unhealthy solution and mindset for the game. And you're still being biased in the fact that you are all for fixing exploitations at the expense of fun mechanics, yet in this topic you're prioritizing the fun mechanic over fixing an exploitation. So when you say "I'm all for fixing exploits" you're simply not true to your word.

I even tried to look for a compromise that allows both early game Crop securing, but also prevents permanent undeserved Crop securing all server. You're not even trying to have a productive discussion. Just arguing for the sake of arguing

hoary pine
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build another village of treasuries next to the cropper, just to have as spare in case it gets zero'd

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it also is helpful to do this for other reasons too

pine orchid
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Yes normally I have this planned. This happened on an account I was Dual on and was not playing, just helping them with advice on build plans and account preparation etc

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They didn't have the same experience with these unfair tactics and it resulted in this scenario. And it's not healthy design to lose something and never be able to reclaim it, even if you're able to destroy it and rightfully earn it back

hoary pine
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have a kingdom member be ready to sacrifice a nearby village to be made into a treasury, in case of current treasury cropper being zero'd

pine orchid
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That's a bit of an outrageous alternative to "just fix the exploitation." Take away someone else's cropper and weaken their account and experience for the sake of the Kingdom

hoary pine
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it could be argued you lost the cropper already, so why do you deserve to have it back?
why change the game just so you can not learn and counter it in future servers

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as long as it's a legit player & not a Multi on the cropper I have no problem with it
fairdo's to them for being better prepared for it

pine orchid
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In a game about war and survival, it's counter-productive to that philosophy when you survive, yet can't reclaim via war

hoary pine
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if it is a multi, then report it and let it be investigated

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also you can always do it to them too

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(if you feel the need to go low)

pine orchid
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Pob your arguments are not good arguments, they are just arguments. None of those suggestions are more reasonable than just finding a middle ground to both protect the fun playstyle, without letting be unfair. Like my day 40 suggestion literally let's you keep your fun playstyle, but you have earn it later on. Just as you would have to with any other playstyle in the game

hoary pine
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I am not arguing

pine orchid
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You're continuing to list ideas of how to just prevent the exploit, in order to justify keeping the exploit in the game

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Why not look for a middle ground

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The playstyle is fun, the exploit is bad

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Look for compromise

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Everybody wins

hoary pine
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but this game is a sandbox game
it's about counter strategies
and it's about being better
learning from mistakes
evolving
problem solving
working as a team

not having everything changed because someone got beat

pine orchid
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Yes and all of those factors nullified by "sorry it's only 1 village account. It is impossible." Based on those values, they should be able to return fire. If they are better, they can reclaim it. Learn from the mistake and reclaim it. Work as a team and reclaim it

hoary pine
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the idea is to leave the battlefield open to different ideas
if everything gets closed down the game becomes too safe, predictable and boring

pine orchid
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This is not an example of the game being closed down and boring

hoary pine
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if they outsmarted you by being able to settle your destroyed cropper, that is because you didn't prepare for it
even though you know it can happen

pine orchid
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This is an unintended design that only exists to prevent account deletion, and has been identified to be exploitable

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When games encounter unintended designs that exploit game mechanics, they fix them

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Travian has done this throughout its life

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Other games also do this

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The exploit is just as fun as it is anti fun

hoary pine
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I just imagine it at the start of a players journey when they feel elated to have got their first cropper
and some team comes along destroys their spawn and then their cropper
and evicts the player across the map with nothing
it can also be abused

pine orchid
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That's not abuse though, that's part of the game's integral design of survive and conquer

hoary pine
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they tried hard to defend their cropper, but in doing so left themselves with only one village

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and then have no way forwards, because the enemy will return

pine orchid
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This scenario you paint of them only ending up with 1 cropper because their other 5-10 villages got destroyed is so bizarre lol

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Like ok they got destroyed in a war

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That's part of the game

hoary pine
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that's how it would play out though
why aim for their biggest most important village
when you can just pick them off one by one
until they have only one

pine orchid
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But that's a literal tactic in this game, regardless of the crop lock

hoary pine
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just because i look at this from a different perspective, does not make me wrong

pine orchid
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You're only wrong in trying to justify keeping a bad exploit in the game, and every counter argument you give simply isn't as reasonable as looking for a middle ground to look to reduce the exploit, but maintain the niche plsystyle

hoary pine
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the game needs new players
those new players need to be able to learn the game and get addicted and have fun
if you make it all about the exploits the fun is also damaged

pine orchid
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Yes the game needs new players, and new players will quit if they lose to a game exploit. Your arguments do not favor new players Pob. There are cons on both sides for new players. The side that actually favors new players is looking for the middle ground, since the far right and far left both hurt new players in different specific scenarios

hoary pine
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and there are counters you could do every time that don't require game changes to happen 🙂
in reality a new/casual players would not really be exploited by this atm, since this is about bigger fights
but if your change was implemented they would be directly affected

toxic coral
hoary pine
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it's funny because I've seen more posts from players have returned recently than ever before

toxic coral
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Returning players are not new players.

hoary pine
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it's time to start supporting the game a little
and posting about fun things
than just labelling everything an exploit, when it could have been avoided
like i said as long as the account is a legit player, I have no issue with it

pine orchid
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We're not labeling everything an exploit. Just the exploits

spice fulcrum
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We literally had a server where a multing meta opened an account on day 37 on a 1x, settled a 15c that got 0'd on an OP on day 80, and 0'd their first village with outside help and proceeded to do NOTHING with the account for the next 70 days

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Also, the account had no population growth for 20+ days before doing this

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Imagine being a single village account created at day 37, belonging to a 100+ member kingdom, and remaining at 150 pop for only one purpose

hoary pine
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and now on a new server you will prep some settlers closeby incase it ever happens again?

spice fulcrum
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That doesn't justify the fact that this is allowed, and then they can just lock up the spot and do nothing

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No account activity, no troops, no building, nothing

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Not even defended

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Just log in once every 20 days

hoary pine
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it's annoying, but as long as it was a legit player it's not illegal

jade crow
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I can ask my big family of 10 brothers and 69 cousins to make farm accounts for me and it is 100% legal 😅

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I understand you had your fun doing it against IYI and this server was good for you and against some well known abusers

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But tbh this feature doesn't seem "logical", when you lose the last village it should just respawn randomly in the map and be able to menhir back to the kingdom

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Same goes for grey villages

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That is the better and more logical option imo

hoary pine
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there are bigger problems need more attention tbh

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a lot has been addressed
lets see how it all plays out moving forwards
before further trying to cut down on fun

jade crow
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But why not both? 😅

spice fulcrum
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It's about tackling the problem from both directions. Remove the abilities and usage for multi accounts as well as hunt for multis

hoary pine
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because this would have negative impacts on inexperienced teams and players
that currently are not a target of such exploits
(because they aren't important enough to be affected by it)

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I'm all for stopping multi's
and i'm sure i read new tools are coming for that?

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so lets see what happens and if it gets better

raven night
jade crow
hoary pine
raven night
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It becomes impossible to survive at the bottom of some wws

pine orchid
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That's the beauty of this feedback loops section

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It gives people the freedom to create discussions and provide player insight to the team and the devs

hoary pine
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as i said i felt compelled to defend reasons for keeping your final village in place as it is
it's also important they know the big picture
I am just filling in the parts from a different player perspective, so they can fully understand it

pine orchid
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📝**TLDR**📝

  1. Permanently locking down a 9c/15c as a single Village account is an exploitation of the mechanic that is there to simply prevent an account from being deleted. This is unintended game design flaw, so it should be patched.
  2. Pob disagrees that the mechanic should be removed, as she believes you should just prepare to never lose your Cropper.
  3. Almost everyone has disagreed with Pob. The majority believes this is an exploitation that's unhealthy for the game.

As a middle ground, to both salvage the 1 Village playstyle, and remove the exploitation of permanent Cropper lock, I suggest there be a day in the server (maybe around day 40) where Single Village Croppers are no longer permanent. And if the Village reaches 0 Pop, it deletes, and the player relocates their single Village to a nearby 6c. This would give them a very long and fair Beginner's Protection to keep their Cropper, but not unfair to where nobody can ever take it from them, in a game that's all about survive and conquer. Nothing should ever be impossible to conquer, and survival should never be 100% guaranteed (outside of account deletion of course).

I have spoken to Pob for hours about this, and it seems we have to agree to disagree. No matter how much I try to find a compromise, she is completely against even somewhat fixing the exploit. So I would rather speak to others who believe it should stay, and hear their reasoning.

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I wish the original poster could pin messages

hoary pine
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making it personal again Zer0
I'm not the only one to disagree

pine orchid
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I didn't say you're the only one to disagree

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I actually said the opposite

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"Almost everyone disagrees" which is true

hoary pine
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and yet my points are raised from gameplay too
so very valid points to post

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if you come back here saying it happened again
I will laugh so hard at you

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you can counter this, you just have to have it in your gameplan

coarse owl
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who's deleting messages, I was reading kekwait

woeful stump
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exactly

floral jewel
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i wonder who

coarse owl
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This would mainly affect cropper blocking by multis

trail ruin
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Hey there. Just removing personal insults. We can disagree, but there are better ways to do it.

echo sonnet
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interesting

jade crow
woeful stump
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Why is this thread only about 15c/9c villages. I do not think it matters which tile the one village account is on, problem is the mechanic itself. just being able to settle anywhere, for example well within enemy territory without an actuall risk of losing your village and posing as a threat FOREVER is an obvious game flaw that is being exploited regularly in multiple different ways.

coarse owl
woeful stump
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I am a victim of this already

coarse owl
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yes so that's why it's just about those

jade crow
coarse owl
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no one would really care about losing a 6c permanently so it's not targeted as much by multis

woeful stump
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I mean yea, the usage of an account like that to prevent someone from resetlling his cropper is most likely the worse thing that can happen. What am saying is that it can be used in other ways to grief someone exploiting the mechanic. Not just by occupying croppers

pine orchid
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Also let's keep in mind, regarding "just don't ever let them settle or don't ever lose your Treasury." All you need to do is reach Residence Level 10, Train 3 Settlers, Reinf them somewhere on the map, then boom, permanent threat. All you have to do is time your Settlers to return during an Op so they can be sent to the Cropper in case it gets Zero'd

coarse owl
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and leaving the 6c one village accounts would be a good compromise for the one-village scout accounts that are afraid to be zeroed, even though they're at the heart of their own kingdom

trail ruin
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Alright. I've read through most of this conversation. A lot of back and forth was not necessarily needed.

I think everyone has expressed their opinions at length.

Just going to try and sum up what the conversation has been thus far for my notes and what I pass along. Please tell me what I've missed, if anything.

Main premise of the conversation.
Single village croppers should be deletable. The primary reason for this is that single villages, which could be multis, can lock croppers and go inactive. If that cropper is their only village, then there is no way to remove that village from a cropper square.

There were concerns expressed that this strategy may harm single village players early in a round/period later in a round. Some players have expressed that this is a strategy that they enjoy, but others view this as an exploit and a way around how the game should be played.

One potential solution proposed to that would be a time-based protection period from getting villages zero'd and automatically removed, such as, only allowing this to happen after the release of tier 2 item (i.e. Day 40 on x1).

Questions that I have:

  1. The main premise is that this should be for croppers, but should this also be extended to other village types? 6c, 7c, uneven squares.

  2. Just to build out a little bit more. When a village is permanently deleted, would they just start over like they were originally, so, basically back to tutorial start? Or would there be a different start for someone who had their village zero'd after day 40?

woeful stump
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@hoary pine How do you even argue that it would be unfair or whatever towards players with only 1 village playstyle to enable players to actually remove(zero) their one and only village. Last time I checked you can remove(zero) any other capital on a game world if the account owns more then 1 village. So if something, current state of the game is being unfair to players with more then 1 village.

coarse owl
jade crow
pine orchid
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Why would you need 20 on a 1 Village account

coarse owl
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was in the suggestion to counter it

pine orchid
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Ah right

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That would be a huge plus yeah

coarse owl
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ah I thought you meant what you needed to counter the tactic

coarse owl
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the other two I don't really see how they're comparable

jade crow
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They may not have the same effect as locking a cropper, I sm just saying they are similar situations and imo they need to be removed when zeroing last village

coarse owl
pine orchid
# trail ruin Alright. I've read through most of this conversation. A lot of back and forth wa...

Yeah you covered everything well.

1️⃣ 6c and 7c are definitely up for conversation as well. However I think the Croppers are the primary issue, as it's not fair to just be able to lock someone's Cropper Capital out of the game from a single Op with no counterplay. Standard Villages are obnoxious threats but not nearly as bad.

2️⃣ Not sure if it should be like that. But perhaps some kind of compensation is given to them for having their account completely destroyed. At least they keep all their Hero Inventory etc. And instead of starting from 0 Pop yeah something like a reset in being able to grow back more decently is fair. So long as there's not some obscure method that could be abused via multis giving free res this way.

coarse owl
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which makes it completely different than a 1 star bronze account settling your 15c after an OP and never growing beyond 9 pop

trail ruin
pine orchid
coarse owl
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imagine a village with 50k troops respawning somewhere random on the map kekww

pine orchid
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Imagine a Roman WWK single Village account that receives daily res pushes and can never lose its army KEKW

trail ruin
coarse owl
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no, he's saying how to permanently hijack a 15c as a multi by just sitting somewhere relatively close with settlers ready

raven night
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Can't we steal WWs anymore if enemy can zero us

pine orchid
coarse owl
raven night
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A ww spot will be 15c-9c

coarse owl
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could be but very unlikely that both are

raven night
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The probability of someone stealing 15c is also very low

spiral lark
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right

coarse owl
raven night
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Only great Ryuga stole a 15c on Dynasty

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Since Dynasty is the best server, it makes sense to use it as a base

coarse owl
trail ruin
raven night
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I was Egg and yes IYI stole his 15c after menhired a multi

coarse owl
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certain kingdoms have multis with settlers ready to send after OPs

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going off all the No13 people here reliving their PTSD, I assume WarGod does it too

floral jewel
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surely 6 and 7cs have to be added if something changes. those WW tiles can change any server

raven night
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But they can't steal a 15c with same way after menhir change

coarse owl
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it's still possible, just requires a bit more prep

pine orchid
trail ruin
woeful stump
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Up until someone does not decide to use this mechanic to extreme levels to completely screw over a whole kingdom by for example settling every/most spots of 1 kingdoms influence with 1 village accounts, nothing is going to change.shrug

pine orchid
# trail ruin Just trying to collect your thoughts in the form that they are expressed and ask...

📝**TLDR**📝

  1. Permanently locking down a 9c/15c as a single Village account is an exploitation of the mechanic that is there to simply prevent an account from being deleted. This is unintended game design flaw, so it should be patched.
  2. Very few players disagree that the mechanic should be removed, as they believe you should just prepare to never lose your Cropper.
  3. Almost everyone has disagreed with them. The majority believes this is an exploitation that's unhealthy for the game.

As a middle ground, to both salvage the 1 Village playstyle, and remove the exploitation of permanent Cropper lock, I suggest there be a day in the server (maybe around day 40) where Single Village Croppers are no longer permanent. And if the Village reaches 0 Pop, it deletes, and the player relocates their single Village to a nearby 6c. This would give them a very long and fair Beginner's Protection to keep their Cropper, but not unfair to where nobody can ever take it from them, in a game that's all about survive and conquer. Nothing should ever be impossible to conquer, and survival should never be 100% guaranteed (outside of account deletion of course).

If given the opportunity, I would love to speak to as many people of the teams/departments as possible, regarding this. Today felt really productive and it gives me hope that the game will continue in this direction of forward progress with healthier gameplay overall. Thank you to anyone who takes the time to read this. The players are hungry and eager for positive changes!

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Edited the post above so there's no targeting ❤️

bold nebula
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so how will it help you after its day 40? like after 40 days, making other villa cap is not really that usefull. unless your really heavy on gold. i would only see this cropper lock strategy early in the game by that i mean ppl going for a kingdoms croppers to lock them from having croppers. when you build your 15c, you should always be ready to be zeroed so if in mid game/late game you get zeroed you can re settle it fast enough. personally i find it fun going for a kingdom i dont enjoy(like) and go steal their croppers because they slow ppl, and can't settle fast enough. and then enjoy their dm's you get for being a prick(nuisance).

saying about multis targeting your cropper, sorry but i dont see that happening quick enough for your fast speed settling people, if it happens to you i'd say ur to slow. the only way i'd see it happening if they created 60 kings accounts and got over 10 square lead. and thats when you already sent your settlers, since you can counter it with ur own menhir kings.

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like in mid late game, if you do get zeroed and you dont have settlers ready to resettle your cropper. sounds like ur problem no? also why would you keep enemy villas with 100-200 pop near you then to settle that cropper, now with kingdom reinf restriction they wont get deff, so you can farm them /zero when op is close to you and you know som1 is getting zeroed. its pretty easy to tell if they going for your cropper. I can see comments being made well they can just train 3 settlers and be in beginers prod and equip chicken boots till the moment your getting zeroed. but theres ways to spot that too, and you can counter that pretty easy imo.

Also if your really only locking 15c 9c. it feels even stranger because this strategy is used(by multis) to settle kingdoms camp spots, and have them at 0 pop. to lower their treasury instace. so if only the 15c/9c would be adjusted, id feel if multi kingdom really tried they would just settle all your camp spots.

in reallity the exploit ur mentioning i see it more in ww villas and not 15c, 9c.
its more common.
more used.
more profitable.

coarse owl
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a person on a WW village would need to be active to do damage to your WW in the first place. And with only one village and limits on reinforcements, it would require quite a bit of activity and gold. So it's completely different than some multi settling a cropper after an OP and not touching the account again, only preventing it from going grey.

And you can't zero a 100-200 pop account close by with settlers+chicken boots because it would be their only village obviously

bold nebula
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with the changes of settling a village removing your beginers prod, with the change of menhiring with fields you keep the fields, theres some changes now that makes it harder for them and you can spot it pretty quick

coarse owl
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if it's a multi that never builds res fields, it only requires one king account close to menhir them

bold nebula
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if that happened to you sorry, but you werent prepared imo

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also with the ww villa building army is pretty hard would say its not.

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because they can still be in a "wing kingdom" with their first villa and settle the ww villa spot early on still

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and still be in kingdom

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most of kingdoms dont even settle their ww villa first day.

coarse owl
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yes but they can't hide their troops in hideout close by so doing hideouts and getting res from that has become more difficult. On bbash, we even had camps to grow the troop numbers which made a big difference. You don't have a lot of resources with 1 village while feeding standing def so robbers are quite a big deal

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it's all still possible but it requires effort

bold nebula
coarse owl
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and the same logic could be applied to that. If you as a kingdom don't have WW tile settled at the start, then you weren't prepared

bold nebula
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i mean yes, if you do lose ur ww tile blame lead and enjoy mb 0 life. but as i was saying i dont see the 15c 9c so common i see ww tiles getting taken more common.

coarse owl
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that logic could even be applied to VM abuse. If you didn't check for hammers in VM the day before or didn't do a fake OP, then you weren't prepared. Not everyone will keep a CP slot open at all times. It hasn't happened to me but I've seen it happen enough, also to experienced active players, that I find the logic of "you weren't prepared" a bit too easy

bold nebula
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you only need setllers

coarse owl
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true

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so you need a village with an expansion slot close by which also not everyone will have

bold nebula
raven night
coarse owl
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20 days when ITX3 ended. And he spent quite a bit of time and gold after. Zoo also didn't do anything except for 2 randoms so wasn't as time consuming as it could've been

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and he had camps for 7-10 days I think which made life easier because they didn't zero restos for a very long period. (Apparently kingdom gets disbanded when king is 0 pop) So GetSquared account had it relatively easy, but still invested a decent amount of time and gold to make it happen.

floral jewel
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first 2 weeks or something there was no effort at all on the account. it got real on day 19 and like ruben said, Zoo didn't try anything special there. it was an easy job

spiral lark
pine orchid
agile venture
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I particularly enjoyed sitting for the one village account next to WW

marsh wigeon
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IMO:

    • yes, i would go for the option that every village can be destroyed
    • I wouldn't go to the "tutorial" start, i would prefer that the account wouln't loose its progress (rankings, hero items, hero exp, quest progression, etc.) - all would stay the same. Player would get fresh 4446 (it could look like freshly settled village for example). If the player is part of the kingdom it would be random 4446 within kingdom borders (if no available, than another random village withing kingdom borders). If he isn't part of the kingdom, i would select random place on the map.
      One question remains if the palyer should be able to menhir after he is lef with his new village (if the new menhir rules take an effect, he couldn't because he left BP already), and imy opinion is that he shouldn't be able to, because he already left the BP and this would create unforseen consequences that could be exploited (1 village acc, getting his village destroyed, just so he gets the ability to menhir all over the map on day 80 )
drowsy raft
drowsy raft
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a compromise suggestion: when a player gets their cropper zeroed, there will be ruin of that village on map and that cropper can only be settled by original owner during next 24/7 and if they not settle it, cropper will be free. This way target of zeroing op can reclaim their cap and players who enjoy building one village offs inside enemy or reserve croppers can keep doing their thing.

drowsy raft
drowsy raft
agile venture
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So here is my thinking logically:

Blocking croppers at start:

  • I think if you keep monkey settling then there is a valid risk that people create multies just to block croppers, since it is much easier to do. If speed settling stays then the risk is much lower, because you need to click fast and a lot more actions to do. I see the biggest risk here.
    But probably you would need a competitive server for this to happen, like Dynasty. On other servers I think the risk is smaller. But yeah this is a side effect of monkey settling.

Blocking croppers during OPs:

  • this is very very marginal. First you need an enemy who can actually zero your villa and then send settlers to beat your settlers. enemy needs to settle from further distance, so it should be easy to defend against.
raven night
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I still don't understand how to reveal the difference between players who adopt the strategy of playing with a single village and accounts opened to steal croppers, or whether the strategy of playing with a single village is wanted to be completely removed from the game

marsh wigeon
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Well, you can't distinguish between them (at least not in some obvious way). You could argue that that certain player who settled that 125% 15c and grows his acc by 10 pop/week settled just to annoy others. But he can argue that he wanted to be more active but IRL issues came by, so now he is just staying for the achi/prestige. Which is also a legit thing to do. And then he decided to delete (because IRL issues were really pressing ) and his friend settled that spot right away.
About the 1 village strategy - some could argument that the two main reasons (morale malus and inability to be removed from the tile) was not intented to be used this way. And if you want to build 1 village account, you still can, your kingdom should be able to provide defense for you (same as you decide to build 3 vilage account).
Inability to remove certain villages from the map can certainly be exploited - whether those are croppers, croppers inside kingdoms, closest tiles to WW or robber spots. And all those could be settled by friends/family and we can argue whether it is a real strategy.

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To me this looks kind of similar to reinforcing robber hideouts and arguments for it- "but hey, i was really comfortable to stash my army indefinitely in a place where no one can reach them ever, except me". I know it was like this for a long time. Most players used it. It was part of their strategy. And its gone. And it make sense.

raven night
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Probably you didn't face a kingdom who sent scouts every 10 secs or every mins so its okey for you to can't send your hero to hideout. There is no counter tactic against a xp check after new reinforce changes. Defense actions were strong than offense actions and now they took counter tactic of xp check. It isn't about being comfortable but whatever its about casual players vs tryhard players and reading feedbacks of X1 players show me that we are playing a different game. Probably you didn't face single villages of your area to make close combat with you. You want to destroy single villages because you aren't enough fast to get your 15c, there is no another reason to ask it. Whatever, let them change it so noone will be safe with single village because you can be zeroed ahh wait your kingdom can def you against an op with 40 targets

marsh wigeon
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you can:

  • send hero with army to long walk and time it right
  • send hero with army to another of your villages and pull them back
  • send hero with army to another friendly village and pull them back
  • overload your village with other heroes, to reduce the chance of actually getting xp point
    ofc, its not that convenient as having it in RH 2 tiles away. But these restrictions also enables more strategies - playing ghost is much more viable now. Scouting villages/oasis for hammers is more rewarding - because you actually can find something.

And please do not assume my intention/motivation, you do not know me and i have never said anything like what you wrote. There were multiple reasons provided why people think the concept of undestructible village is bad.

raven night
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Idk other reasons, i can see only a reason and it is that some players are losing settling race to other players/multis and want 1 more chance. Noone can use menhir and steal 15c after zeroed because you can't menhir after BP ends

pine orchid
marsh wigeon
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and yes, thats a 15c

jade crow
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You and anyone who helped you should be punished for ruining the game for others

marsh wigeon
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I did nothing wrong. It’s part of my strategy.

warm cairn
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I guess it could be considered even a worse experience for a new player to see a bunch of accounts not being played activly stealing croppers from under your nose and you being unable to do anything about the situvation.

marsh wigeon
misty plover
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How about making destroying singles possible, but add a hefty penalty to the destroying player? Not just a consolation prize for the destroyed player? Would need to be a penalty that is not possible for (most) multis, so the player/kingdom feels it.

marsh wigeon
jovial jackal
marsh wigeon
pine orchid
#

I need to make more topics

#

This has been a great time

misty plover
# marsh wigeon you mean punish the player (or kingdom he is part of) for destroying village?

Something along those lines, perhaps the destroying player has to give up one of his (non-cap) 4446 villages as ‘reparation’. Or have the kingdom he’s part of spawn some empty RCs because the Robbers are too afraid to show their faces after his horrid deed. I’m not the expert on what would hurt the appropriate amount, so feel free to take it apart ^^;

So you’d really have to weigh the pros and cons. Maybe put some conditions on it, like the destroying player has to have more pop now than the destroyed player ever had?

marsh wigeon
raven night
# marsh wigeon Nah, no way Jose. They should all be more active in those first 4 hours of the s...

Yes it is true. You were faster and you took it, now you can play with 20 villages or 1 village, its your gamestyle. If you aren't a multi acc, it isn't a problem and i guess you are a real person so you can play with this 15c forever, you can't get enough res from a village, and if you don't have a kingdom others will try to farm you. Not everyone has to play tryhard in this game, they can also play chill. I think most players who get 150% 15c are bad and don't deserve it but that's just my opinion and there's nothing I can do about it.

marsh wigeon
# raven night Yes it is true. You were faster and you took it, now you can play with 20 villag...

Yes and that's exactly my problem with it - "there is nothing i can do about it". As soon as i settle second village - my cropper is up for grabs - anyone can destroy it and resettle if they can beat me/my kingdom. But if i stay 1 village - they can't. I took something what everyone could have (if they settled it faster or later in the game took it from me) and made it into something which can never be taken from me. And i think this concept is flawed. That's my whole point.

hoary pine
misty plover
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Like having more storage in your cap? 😘

marsh wigeon
jade crow
misty plover
# marsh wigeon well, i get idea, bu i don't agree with it. Currently if you have 2+ villages an...

Through demoing the last village, you’re destroying a player to the point where the majority will delete without thinking twice. While I see your point about cropper-blocking, there ARE players who enjoy the style (no matter its efficiency) – taking away the immunity without consequences would be like a slap to the face. Adding a punishment could perhaps give a bit more security. While not 100% immunity, the destroying player would have to be absolutely sure freeing that tile is worth the cost.

pine orchid
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I would argue fixing an exploitation is a higher priority than Pob complaining she can't build 19s

hoary pine
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why would anyone build L19s
that's just stupid

#

🙃

pine orchid
#

That's the smartest thing you've ever said 🥹

spice fulcrum
#

Yea, everyone knows L20 are where it's at

hoary pine
#

eggsactly waclap

marsh wigeon
# misty plover Through demoing the last village, you’re destroying a player to the point where ...

I get the idea of putting a cost on it. But that has its drawbacks. For the sake of argument, let's say the cost would be next robber hideout will have 1 res each and no SGs for the player that destroyed that village.
Now let's imagine some notorious meta kingdom. What do they do? They summon their family and friends -> they settle on robber spots of your kingdom and destroy their original village. Now you either have no spots for robber camps or for each village destroyed you are penalized. It's a lose-lose situation for you.
And on the other hand, having the same cost to demolish village and settle for example 125% 15c? Its ridiculously small price for that.
So, you either have price too small to matter for normal play, or you have price too high that can be easily abused by family and friends.

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And IMO, there are usually much more juicer targets to destroy than 1 village acc. Even without the immunity they have now. And if people want to delete because their single village got demolished, they should play with more villages.

warm cairn
#

I guess something like requiring two cp slots to settle rubble by non owner could be intresting

marsh wigeon
#

certainly, there are ways how to make it harder to settle or harder to demolish - last village could have stronger protection against catapult even without stonemason. Maybe even higher. Stonemason is 300%, so lets give 1 village players 400% without the need to build stonemason (which they would surely appreciate).