🔁 Feedback Loop: Fealty System

[wary stratus]

The Fealty System will soon be available to reward players who remain part of the same Kingdom. New bonuses will unlock with each Fealty level, while already-unlocked bonuses will receive additional boosts. And let's not forget the Lobby Prestige level bonus on top!

Visit the blog to learn more and get ready to test the feature on Thursday, 11.04.2024 at 14:00 UTC+2

What are your first impressions? The stage is yours!

[lucid void]

Interesting! I'm thinking on the troop speed bonus, will it somhow be possible to see if other players have that? If not, it will be hard to calculate traveltimes when counter-scouting.

[charred fossil]

you need to take into account fealty level (3-4% speed bonus) and also prestige level (another 1%) - getting quite complicated, certailny at later stages of the game when most players have it..

[wary stratus]

That’s one of the first thoughts that I had too!
I’ll be curious to see how existing counter-scout tools can be effectively used (if at all).

A 1% base troop change shouldn’t be too different, so I think most tools can still be used for identifying Tournament Square.

But - for getting your landing times right for scouts - it’ll be a little different. Because you will not only have to take into account the attackers prestige and fealty level - but also the counter-scouters prestige and fealty level.

This is something that I will be testing in the upcoming round to figure out how/if it can be added effectively into existing tools.

[tired edge]

We are getting new prestige tier?

[icy canyon]

I guess the biggest problem will be the different fealty levels, since that's the only unknown in the equation... But that shouldn't be too hard to calculate if that's just up to 4% speed?

[sterile umbra]

You getting more point during starter protection

Is that mean to somebody who is semi active get the reward faster, cus he spent more Time under 200 pop?

Oh 9% off power boost, while 4% deff, why did you picked that?

I mean with hero bonus for example both 20-20%

[modern violet]

the part of adding prestige is something i dont like i'm gold emblem but its just not fair against new players tbf 😄

[sterile umbra]

But the troop movement speed
... Please remove that🥲

[modern violet]

i love me some artifacts for the movement idd 😄

or the small dieet 😍

[sterile umbra]

Rest can be argued and change its value during and after test, but 2, percentage speed change will make it a nightmare to organise joined operations

Deff and off

Also both bonus can/ will change during the server

You get more prestige and spend more day in Kingdom.

Idk about other leaders, I dont want to keep track all my gov fealty bonus, to which day will it change, which day he Will increase its prestige lvl ect

[kindred briar]

what about speed settling, when you use a kingdom for relocation, which you will leave?

[lucid void]

Yes, changing troop speed will only cause problems, the only benefit of a few percent faster troops is that it will be harder for opponent to counter scout

[sterile umbra]

It will make doing timed attacks or deff much harder

For maximum 5% increase

1 ts lvl usually give more

[sterile umbra]

You lose later the generated points ?

[kindred briar]

guess you wont get any points on that server

[timid fjord]

I would really love to see the kingdoms with 200+ members trying to make an offplan to land at the same second. The time needed from the planner will be immense.

[sterile umbra]

Well, fair point, but even small teams get unneeded problems, and its make doing an op extreamly unfriendly to New players also

Cus with 10k prestige accounts its much easier to organise Than 100 prestige one. And make sending ops harder too

[queen anchor]

The main problem with fealty is still that if you have 200 members, you have 200 members benefitting, if you are smaller kingdom you benefit less in total.

[timid fjord]

Yes.

[sterile umbra]

Its not per person?

[timid fjord]

It is for person but 9% / player for 200 players is a lot more than 9% / player for 50 players...

[queen anchor]

Yes but lets say you have 2 kingdoms :
1 with 200 ppl where 50% uses it
1 with 100 ppl where 50% uses it

You have 100 vs 50 ppl benefitting from the advantages

[sterile umbra]

Yes, but then not the change bad, but the current system

[queen anchor]

Atleast it seems Fealty has been adjusted % wise from initial draft

[timid fjord]

I might be stupid but why would this be needed? What is the benefit for the game?

I have honestly not seen anyone leaving a kingdom to join another after the first month of the game. Most people join a kingdom before the 7th day and stay in that kingdom for the rest of the server.
After the first 7 days the people that join and leave kingdoms are most likely multies and should just be banned...

[sterile umbra]

There are tricks with changing Kingdoms, but they are not used cus multi farming and other shit much easier and worth it.

I would say to this change could make people less likely to join a wing Kingdom. But you dont Pick your team by who let you join the first day

But maybe it can be a small nerf for metas, cus you cant join as 200 player day 1, while smarter kingdoms can unite faster. So its like 100 guy from the 200 who get the full bonus, while in the 50 member team all 50. So their strenght ratio gap get reduced by a small amount

[karmic kestrel]

Right now in COM2x3N we had the 2nd biggest kingdoms disband after all their hammers died. So then you have a huge split of players who stuck around.
Some leaving for the kingdom they were first fighting, some joining a new kingdom fight against them again.
So it CAN happen, but I agree that it's rare.

[dire bobcat]

When a kingdom is destroyed, it is natural that its lands, cities and villages are divided among other kingdoms.
We can say that we need a loyalty system when the relocation rate of players is high. This system is suitable for Travin Legend, not Travin Kingdom. There, it is easier to move between alliances. But here, to be in the kingdom, you have to be on its border. This compulsion to be on the border of the kingdom is more than loyalty.

Changing kingdoms is the most superficial look at loyalty that is going to be implemented. Loyalty could have a much better image and a more attractive definition

[karmic kestrel]

Yeah that makes sense, but how would you otherwise measure and reward loyalty?
Like in legends, giving the kingdom bonuses based on contributed resources?

[native current]

Prestige thingi is not ok imo, as each server should have their own, cause someone played more on one specific account (not dual) shouldnt have more advantages than new and other players in a game that each server we start from scratch

[dire bobcat]

The bottom line here is why do we want to measure loyalty?
I am not talking about bonuses. The mentioned bonuses can be created for other reasons. But my question is, what is the need to calculate the amount of loyalty? How many non-loyal players will we have after the first two weeks of the server? I think that Travian Kingdoms team should check these things first, what is the desired relocation rate after the first two weeks of the normal server? How will it affect the game?
The next point is why reward for loyalty? Basically, the governors either consider themselves to belong to the kingdom and will be loyal, or they are in the kingdom because of the circumstances there and it is the kingdom's retinue to keep them loyal. What is the duty of the king and duke? What is the other duty of the governors to support the kingdom? The loyalty reward that the game is supposed to pay calls all these duties into question.

[karmic kestrel]

If you want my honest opinion. I'd say the reason for the developer is money. Players might have another reason to 'stick' around a bit longer in a server they've already spent time in.

So the business case for this change would be.. increase the feeling of sunken cost fallacy in the hope that players stick in a server longer, and spend money. Besides, technically wise, it's pretty simple feature to implement.

Game-wise, I kinda agree, I guess it's not that important but it might give governors a better feeling of importance or something. Again, hoping that they'd stick around longer.

I was discussing with kingdom members that people quit more often without a proper reason, just losing intrest, so maybe they're trying to give another form of reward for sticking around.

At this point I'm just guessing what the devs want with this change.

How would you go and reward people with the bonuses (if you would at all)

[bronze raptor]

This idea was doomed in forums, has been doomed here, doesnt promote the way majority of the community wants to play. How freaking stubborn and dumb the game director is. We know his vision how the game is meant to be played is meta kingdoms how ever thats not what players want. Time to get down from the ivory tower and open eyes to see the freaking state of this game and actually LISTENING WHAT THE PLAYERS WANT FFS. Stop making rushed special shit servers eventho they pay well, its not good for the longevity

[karmic kestrel]

What is it that players want according to you Kické?

[bronze raptor]

Smaller kingdoms less cheaters

That is quite widely shared view amongst most teams

[karmic kestrel]

On the other hand, if you put a limit on kingdom size, you get that people would just create more wings of the same kingdom (like in legends)

Yeah, multis etc are highly annoying, I agree.

[wary stratus]

I appreciate everyone sharing such open feedback here.

I’m going to save final opinions until I actually get to play along with it and see how everything functions.

The last round I played there was a Kingdom that started off as 8 different Kingdoms. Then they moved into 6, then 4. Then 3.
And they stayed at 3 almost until the end of the round before they all finally merged together.
So I can see how that would affect their gameplay. I also think it would evolve quite a bit.
So to me this seems to impact the META kingdoms the most, not non-META.
I’ll be curious how that impacts play style for groups that typically join as several groups and how they combine.

What happens if your largest WW hammer is in a secondary Kingdom? Does this cause some hammers to be launched earlier? Will it impact end game at all?

These are all questions that I’m curious to discover.

[bronze raptor]

There is hundreds if not thousands of messages of this topic if you are interested

[karmic kestrel]

Sure 🙂 I'm pretty new so I'm curious.

[bronze raptor]

If you want to win there is only one playstyle :)))

[queen anchor]

I am curious to see how a 5% def bonus for 400 players deffing a ww holds up vs 1 off player with 10% off bonus

[bronze raptor]

https://discord.com/channels/840247756597886996/1203326179235332106

[sterile umbra]

Like how it does now not too well

[wary stratus]

I’m kind of thinking it will largely have a negligible impact on endgame.

It will also depend on where the 5% and 10% is applied in the calculation.
I’ll be waiting patiently for @fast stream to figure it out.

[bronze raptor]

Also the lobby prestige affecting is bs, what happened to the worry about honest new players

[wary stratus]

So you think that the lobby prestige bonus should be removed?

What kind of adverse effects do you think this would have on new players?

[queen anchor]

It is only funny because one of reasons menhir would not get adjusted was "What if a player gets into a bad kingdom 4 times?"

[bronze raptor]

They are inherently in worse position than older players, same goes to ppl who play/have played mostly duals. If this is meant to reduce use of duals please reset all prestiges so you dont punish dual usage retroactively

[wary stratus]

I think a lot of topics can be re-examined. It’s what I want to use my role for here.

But for today - I would like to get feedback on these specific features that are being proposed and tested.

We have a lot of game experts here. We have a lot of new people here. I think getting face-value feedback is important. Then comparing that back to “how it actually plays”.

[tired edge]

imo there is no need for that prestige bonus

[queen anchor]

True, how i see Fealty is : "A meta wants to have all members inside kingdom asap".

[modern violet]

yea prestige bonus out!

[queen anchor]

Certain kingdoms will still just have wings all server

[wary stratus]

Do you think the inherent position is demotivating or motivating?

I’m sure this isnt meant to reduce usage of duals, but you think it could have an adverse effect on usage?

[wary stratus]

I completely agree. I just wonder how that impacts strategy. I have lots of ideas on how it could be used, or how it would manifest itself, but I’ll be curious how those thoughts pair with reality.

[queen anchor]

Agreed

[bronze raptor]

Demotivating. Also if it is applied i feel punished for playing with duals

[dapper vale]

Weird idea when the majority of people join and stay in one kingdom the entire server. Wonderful use of dev time instead of giving us new tribes 🙃

[karmic kestrel]

Only thing I heard about the new tribes is that people found them to be too strong 😅

[bronze raptor]

Why is the feedback collected when it doesnt lead to anything? The game director loves his vision and will not let minor things like player opinion affect his god complex

And I know its not about you @wary stratus you know how the things are but you are paid to eat the shit aimed at management

[wary stratus]

Feedback is being collected to help better shape the game.
It’s like my one job.
I’m here to make sure that there is a player driven agenda - and to make sure that your voices are being heard and that your feedback is being considered.

I wish I had the old details for this when it was for proposed. This isn’t the same.
It’s not even close to what was initially suggested. So I take that as a sign that the initial feedback was considered there, as I expect this feedback will as well. The first thing I looked for when this first came back was the “workshop bonus” - it got a lot of pushback on the forums at the time and now it’s completely gone.

We all have opinions about what is important and what should come first, and what isn’t important.
In regard to other topics - why this was selected over others? I don’t know.

You’re a skilled player, Kicke. I appreciate your feedback on these topics.

[bronze raptor]

Yes yes you are contractually obliged to say that. But lets not try to fool anyone, bella actually cared, you mostlikely do also yet we all know nothing will happen

[dapper vale]

I haven’t really looked at the distribution much, but it didn’t look crazy skewed the couple servers I checked. And balancing is always possible

[modern violet]

new tribes is not needed in my opinion but give us the artefacts ;D

[bronze raptor]

Simple question to devs. What issue is fealty meant to fix? If (and when) the answer is none then why its getting resources used on it while there is huge issues tha actually need fixing. Seems like everyone above cm’s is just way too disconnected from the community. @dull fox brought hope but it seems like he is just bridget in different package

[dapper vale]

Both tbh. I think the new tribes would at least shake up the meta a bit.

[modern violet]

imagine sometihng more then treasuries to fight for/protect would be amazing 🙂

like blueprints for wonders are fantastic imo

[dapper vale]

Ye exactly. Most rounds I’ve played go pretty much exactly the same way, not much variety or excitement.

[modern violet]

IDD

[wary stratus]

Kicke. I will always say how I feel.
Feel free to voice your opinions anytime.
But - please try to say more on topic for these threads as I’m trying to focus more in on this subject.
So - please - focus in on Fealty and feedback here. If you would like to create an additional thread on this topic - feel free to.

[dapper vale]

And Kicke is spot on imo. What issue is this meant to fix? Seems like a buff for the vast majority of players for doing what they will do 99% of the time anyway, and punishing the few players that have to switch kingdoms for moving/selling treasures before the kingdom borders expand all the way

[modern violet]

sorry but i do agree with kicke aswell but will be fun to test and maybe then we can change our opinion :p

[dapper vale]

The prestige bonus is kinda misguided as well I think, punishes new players, for what? Debuffing multis any cheaters? I don’t get it

[wary stratus]

I think this is a good question.
Like I said earlier in the thread I do think this will impact how really large teams play.

With the prestige bonus I assume that it’s trying to reward players for their longevity. As has been mentioned - this will have an impact on Dual players and newer players.

The prestige bonuses aren’t active immediately, they are also tied to fealty level, which is tied to time. So I’m wondering if that will kind of limit their strong impact early game.

[wary stratus]

I kind of replied above here.

[bronze raptor]

The least that can be done if they REALLY want to give prestige boost is reset all prestige

Also isnt the timing for the test dumb at the best? Start test server while ”all veteran players are showcasing their skills in dynasty”.

[modern violet]

beign all friends you mean? :p

[timid fjord]

I might be an asshole but maybe it is time to just ignore the test server? What I have read of this conversation not many of the community don't want it or they want it in a different way. By ignoring the test server we as a community show we do not like the feature as it is and maybe someone actually see this as a reason to do something.

On another note... Why do we get more and more "Feedback Loop Topics" when TK don't even handle them? Can we start getting robbers done or maybe kingdom sizes or why not remove it all together since noone at TK even listen to us anyway?

[bronze raptor]

That would be great, but people will see it as opportunity for free medal and go for it

[wary stratus]

I won’t tell you what to do in terms of playing or not playing. But if you do, we will value your feedback.

The other topics haven’t been ignored. I will be addressing some of them next week.

Robbers haven’t been ignored either, it’s currently being worked on, but I don’t have any information on timelines yet. As soon as I know - you’ll know.

[sonic talon]

😳

https://tenor.com/view/its-time-to-go-home-jon-taffer-bar-rescue-we-need-to-go-home-time-for-us-to-leave-gif-16805926

[queen anchor]

https://tenor.com/view/x3-gif-24301743

[sonic talon]

Frankly, with 3rd robber hideout still there since 3 years, why are you thinking about new stuff? 😁

[hard escarp]

lose prestige bonus
lose speed bonus
make it harder for any team to recruit beyond 100 players

will the Duke needs to be inside borders thing still be there?

@wary stratus that is my feedback (and question)

prestige bonus is too punishing for legit new players (and we absolutely need more new players)
speed bonus is probably to complex to counter against, it gives Off Op's more of an advantage

the idea of fealty was to encourage teams to get together faster
but if there is no restriction it will be abused massively

[sonic talon]

Training speed time, training cost time, crop consumption and everything related to troops should not be modified

I could understand cps or constructions building time, but giving someone an advantage to troops cost/trainingtime/consumption/off or def power is frankly stupid

Merchant speed

capacity

But not troops, what does it mean? 😄

[timid fjord]

Balancing this will be a nightmare...
Considering the balancing of the game currently someone will be really angry after this is implemented...

[wary stratus]

That’s a good question. Initially they were paired together and I know that the disbanding Kingdoms is still an option here - which was introduced at the same test where Dukes had to have a village in borders.

[dire bobcat]

I think you are wrong about the ending.
You think I won't go to our second kingdom that has Wonder for loyalty rewards? At the end of the game, this issue is not important at all, and what is more important is winning medals and being in the winning kingdom. Therefore, this issue will definitely have less impact at the end of the game.

[wary stratus]

So - if you leave the Kingdom - you lose your fealty rewards.
In my theoretical it was suggesting that Kingdoms would stay around longer (so people don’t lose their fealty bonus). Which would result in the need for WW hammers to launch before Level 50 (so that those players outside of the kingdom could join the ‘main kingdom’)

[hard escarp]

if Dukes & Gov have to be in borders it slows down the recruiting process

so it would takes lots longer for any team to reach 200

[wary stratus]

I’ll push for an answer on this. It is also important to know ahead of time for team planning.

[hard escarp]

👍

[lost mortar]

All the developers were asked to do was make a limit on the number of people in the kingdom. 30/50. As it was before, are you a good player and give your best 100% going to the first team, are you a beginner? you help the main squad, gain experience, and in the next round you will be accepted into the main squad. This would solve the problem of kingdoms of 300 people where they play alone, as they currently do on the Dynasty server.

As a result, the developers decided in their own way, and judging by what I see, this will break a lot of mechanics that used to work. It would be better to deal with the mechanics of the endless transfer of treasure.

[wary stratus]

Hello!

A few updates for you today.

Why this?: Fealty is meant to pair with the feature tested last year - being able to disband Kingdom Unions. In addition, it is meant to reward players for staying in their Kingdom longer.

The other part of the "why this" question was more aimed at "Why this now, specifically". The developer team is currently working on 3 categories of development for the game: reworking existing features, creating new features, and bug fixes. This is obviously in that "creating new features" that help the game continue to evolve.

Do Dukes have to be inside borders to assign? - YES! In order for a player to be promoted to Duke, they have to be a governor first, meaning, that they have to be inside of borders in order to assign as Duke.

Can fealty level be seens by all? - The way the system is currently set up you can see the fealty bonus of those inside of your own Kingdom, but not outside.

Speed bonuses - This is why we have test gameworlds. To get feedback on these types of features to see if they are liked or not. So far the opinions have been pretty resounding that there is concern here, especially for planning of defensive and counter scout operations, but it also has implications for offensive planning as well. We will be collecting all concerns and thoughts on speed bonuses and how players feel about them.

I am still working through everything to make sure that all questions are addressed before the start and that all concerns are noted and documented.

Thanks!

[sonic talon]

Yeah, understood, but still, what is the exact path that made you thinking “let’s give a boost to troop training time, reduce their cost and so on, and also, let’s make it even higher for those that have an higher prestige!”

[lost mortar]

I feel that it will take at least a couple of years before we get to the real problems of the game.

[sonic talon]

Probably we won’t even have a realistic change

[lost mortar]

That's the problem, people do anything. just not real problems that cause people to leave the game or play for 2 weeks and get deleted from the server.

[sonic talon]

Tho it isn’t hard to comprehend that before making any sort of implementations to the gameplay you should have a solid base

Buddy, your cooking panel has a gas loss and you are worried about making a new floor. Like wth.

[queen anchor]

The healing tent wasn't asked for by ppl but seems like a great addition

[sonic talon]

Healing tent was a great way to balance off and def.

Not a totally new thing.

[queen anchor]

I'm sure you made the same feedback the time feedback was asked when it was just announced like 1.5-2 year ago

Right?

[sonic talon]

No 😁

[wary stratus]

Hey Charito, thanks for the question.
From my understanding the thinking is twofold.

1. Benefits for players who have put in the time and have progressed further and further into the game. So, a "retention bonus" as I believe it was called somewhere earlier in the thread.

2. With the addition of the Rule Enforcement Team last year penalties and punishments have continued to stack. The path to a lobby ban is much quick and shorter than it used to be. So when a player loses their "main account" - the punishment isn't just in their prestige/medals/achievements, but the loss is also a tangible benefit that they would have had if they would have just followed the rules.

Now. If you think any of the features are overpowered. Or you think the prestige bonus system should include different benefits - feel free to offer them up.

[sonic talon]

Yeah, I do think some features are overpowered (anything that benefits troops directly and indirectly like their crop cons) and a “retention bonus” could be anything that isn’t an actual benefit in game. Someone before me already stated “this would go against new players, and we lack of new players”. I understand that it’s vital for the company to keep friendly their veterans because they are their main source of income, but this will lead to a faster death of the game, which is already on its “highway to heaven”

[lost mortar]

@wary stratus I don't think you're playing this game. People leave the server after 1-2 weeks. Because they see a zerg kingdom of 200-300 people. There is no desire against such people at all. As a result, we get servers with a maximum number of 2k, when before it was the norm and there were 4-5 thousand people each.

[wary stratus]

One thing that I think will be a mitigating factor is that the bonuses aren’t just unlocked from the beginning.

They kick in as the fealty level bonus on a specific gameworld are earned.
So a new player is still earning those bonuses along with older players at the same rate, they just wouldn’t receive the prestige bonus that they aren’t eligible for, but if they hit that rank in a gameworld they can earn it.
I think I hit 3 gold stars my first game world.

Of course, I want to reserve all final judgment until I actually get to play and experience the system, but that’s kind of my read on it currently.

[wary stratus]

I think you’re probably a little wrong there, at least on your first sentence.

I completely agree that the game and its current structure can be hard for new people to engage with. However, I know that was my experience when I first played in 2006/07. Until you find a team or a group, the game can be pretty cold.
I will be discussing some additional information that I got next week regarding some topics and feedback that might help mitigate that cold experience.

[lost mortar]

@wary stratus I've been playing intermittently since 2004, still on Polish servers. They didn't take you into the clan before, if you didn't have experience, you first went to play a couple of servers at the academy to gain experience, the clans competed with each other, but what now? An example is a Dynasty server, a 400-person kingdom, and many players left as soon as they saw this. If we take the financial component, how much money has been lost by those who have left? And how much will those who sit in a kingdom with 400 people bring? They don't need to buy gold, they're fine as it is.

[wary stratus]

Hey there, this is off topic from Fealty, but there is a topic for this subject and I would encourage you to please share your thoughts there 🙂

https://discord.com/channels/840247756597886996/1203326179235332106

[lost mortar]

@wary stratus I've already shared and described everything. But in the Russian section.

[wary stratus]

Perfect! I am in contact with all the other Community Managers to collect feedback from all domains. I’ll make sure to collect all details shared there.

[lost mortar]

@wary stratus Thank you, because our team is just waiting for changes right now.

[wary stratus]

Really quick update on the "Who can see fealty level" - it is possible to see it of other governors in your Kingdom, but you will not be able to tell Fealty Level for Dukes/Kings of your own Kingdom.

[bronze raptor]

No matter your prestige/experienxe meta kingdoms suck, most playing in them dont want them but its the only way if you want to win

And if the prestige fealty bonus stays i’m out for good

[bronze raptor]

This is thread where criticism goes to die. 100+ messages, 0 from tk team, it’s against game directors vision so it wont even be commented, would hurt his fragile ego prolly

[wary stratus]

Hey Kicke, I will be posting an update to this thread early next week 🙂
If you have any additional comments, please feel free to add them there. Otherwise, please keep this thread focused on your thoughts towards the proposed Fealty System! Thanks!

[timid fjord]

Can we have a vote on this feature and take a democratic decision about implementing this even to a test server?

[wary stratus]

Hey there. This will be run on the upcoming Test Gameworld that starts next week on April 11th. You will be able to offer feedback about your thoughts before, during and after.

[dire bobcat]

The answer is clear. We chose this and you have no right not to want it. You can just comment how you want it.🤣

[timid fjord]

By reading this thread with over 140 comments not a lot of people want this implemented at all...
But I guess this game is a dictatorship so... Why do we even bother?
On another note...
"From here, the hottest discussion topics will reach the Game Center ~once a month for consideration, and we will prepare a blog response for you."
Wonder when news about robbers and max size of kingdoms will be talked about...

[wary stratus]

This is developed and ready to be tested. This conversation originally started on the Forums. I am happy to see how much this feature has changed since it was originally introduced.
Your feedback is extremely important. There will most likely be additional player surveys that go out to get as many thoughts as possible on this.

I have my thoughts and concerns, but knowing that a lot of my concerns that I had when this was first proposed have been removed gives me hope that this can be shaped as a benefit to all players.

[wary stratus]

As I've mentioned previously, there will be a response on other feedback loops that comes out early next week 🙂

[bronze raptor]

This was brought in to forums by travian staff not by players. No player ever has asked for this. Numerous other things how ever have been asked for time and time again 🙂

[timid fjord]

Don't bother. Travian Dictatorship will launch on April 11th. End of story 😉

[wary stratus]

Hey Kicke, as I said to you earlier today in this thread - there will be more of an update on these other asks next week.
I look foward to to discussing those more with you then.

As was mentioned earlier in the thread, part of this is intended to not only be a retention bonus to players, but also an additional loss to someone who gets lobby banned because of persistent cheating. Which is something that has been brought up in the past. With the introduction of RET there are increasingly harsher penalties that lead to lobby bans much faster than before. This is another dimension of that.

[timid fjord]

Let me try to read between the lines here...
What you are saying more people will be "lobby banned" which is a new fancy way to say their account will be deleted?
Because of this new players will be hurt?
This does not make any sense in my small brain... Maybe I am missing something important?

Also this new fancy RET team everyone is speaking about is something we don't see? Last time I saw some real action taken was back when they wrote out a message here about hijacking sessions... Not sure what the RET team did then...

[bronze raptor]

We all know that nothing coming from players will not be implemented lets not kid ourselves. It never was that our ideas and wishes were not brought to higher ups, it was thay the higher ups didnt give a shit. You can change the messenger indefinetly but if the ones getting the message dont change the result doesnt either. And by no means I dont mean to highjack this thread but this seems to be to only place to get any answers. I truly appreciate you answering us and trying to bring hope, sad thing is the hope is long gone. We have 0 reasons to believe anything has changed within the management so we just assume we have to keep swallowing their shit till the game finally dies.

[timid fjord]

I really do feel sorry for @wary stratus .
Being the middle man is hard. People complain both from below and from above.

[wary stratus]

Not at all what I'm saying. This is something that is meant to penalize cheaters more harshly, because they lose their prestige progress when a lobby ban is implemented.

I agree that this puts new players at a disadvantage, which is why this needs to be fully tested so that we can understand what that effect looks like and what needs to be changed to mitigate that. I think there is a balancing that needs to be done here. 100%. There are no doubts in anyone's mind that this idea needs to be explored and fully fleshed out before it is implemented.

When you think about the minimum player versus the maximum player - how does prestige fully look in that case? I'm not entirely sure. How does fealty look? I'm not entirely sure.
But I, as a player first always, will be testing this feature so that I can personally better advocate for players. It's why I have this roll.
I want to get peoples feedback on this so that it can be fully driven what the player base thinks of this.

[hard escarp]

I have some concerns, I can also see some potential benefits
I think the only way to see if it's better or worse is to test it
and then we can talk off real data & results rather than speculation

we were happily going to test it in 2022, before it got pulled & we tested healing tents instead
that was a surprise feature & has been a very positive addition

[bronze raptor]

This prestige thing has to go. I’ll write it in the way excel heroes at finance department understand using myself as example. I myself use anything between 100-200+€ per server I play because I want to play at the highest possible level with reasonable investment. However it’s not possible for me to put in activity needed to play at that level. Travian kingdoms has great feature called dual, great now I csn share the time commitment with some who is in same position as me. So combined we use 200-400+ per server. Welcome prestige fealty. Now we get punished for sharing prestige between 2-3 accounts. We feel like not playing anymore or atleast not invest in the game because we are inherently behind some other players who might have played less than us but are rewarded by their comnitment to the game where as we are punished for using feature offered by travian.

[native current]

But it also punish new players a lot harsher too, cause not only they dont have the old players exp for playing the game but also they will have disadvantage against players that played them game, then after that people who played dual a lot will have disadvantage again cause of not gaining point on their own account and i dont think back in the days on forum this prestige system was mentioned so i really hope it doesnt get in the game at all not even for test! (Only the prestige system) and maybe as we have kingdom based test, so limiting kingdom members could be a nice thing to test too!

[restive lodge]

Which teams will play ? I want to play

[gritty vigil]

yes

[upper pulsar]

Prestige bonuses might not be that bad per se, especially as they should be unlocked fairly late because of fealty system. Still, stuff like bonus attack, reduced crop consumption, reduced training time has to go. Things like - 1% hero resurrection time or bonus ~50 culture points seem fine, add more almost irrelevant bonuses like that and it could be fine.

[gritty vigil]

does building time reduction affect wonder also ?

[wary stratus]

Good question! Let me see what I can find out 🙂

[finite vale]

These are my comments before testing, I will update after testing.

1. I guess you can send your soldiers as reinforcement to a prestige level player to feed them with less crop consume, so you don't need to be in kingdom for crop bonus. (Total crop consumption)

2. Changing movement speed of troops makes harder to plans of kingdoms. Gettertools won't update itself so we can't use gettertools for it. TKtools will update it but players don't like UI of it. So off coordinators have to use excel for planning. More effort, more wasted times, more mistakes. (Troop movement speed)

3. It will be harder for royals to own 15-9c. It was harder against gauls and now more harder because you have to wait your king to open his kingdom and menhir you, then you will send your settlers. Or you can open your kingdom as temp king and you will wait 2-3 days for 3rd expansion slot, so your players can't use 1 more menhir, and they have to wait 3-4 days to join main kingdom. (Dukes must be govs)

4. Although the details have not been fully disclosed, it will most likely be a prestige bonus sale. Like crop/resource bonus and travian plus. In a way, it will be an feature that increases P2W. (Fealty tithe boost)

5. Its a feature to reduce the number of wing kingdoms but probably it won't. Generally, the players who write reviews are not meta players, so they cannot understand the mentality of metas. They want to win with a brand. Unreal/IYI/Friends etc will play with wing kingdoms again, it won't be problem for them, they will use bonusses in wing kingdoms and they don't want to join main kingdoms for medals. We can see again 3-4 wings but with fealty bonusses now. Or if we are optimistic, they will try to add everyone to the main kingdom and there will be a kingdom where 400 people get fealty bonuses. Fealty makes metas more stronger. 100 players with off bonusses is useless against 400 players with def bonusses. (Fealty bonusses)

6. Giving 1.5x bonus fealty generation for beginner protection is a good feature for multi abusers. We can see boosted accs with fealty in enemy borders with beginner protection.

Feedback about movement speed was also given in Mayhem, but it was not paid much attention

[cyan knot]

Amazing feedback. Lovely to read it from someone who has actually played the real game.
But may I ask you to explain #3 more? I failed to understand the point.

[wary stratus]

I believe that he is indicating that it will be hard for Dukes to join the Kingdom because they have to be governors first (aka inside borders).
So there are two options that he kind of sees:

1. You send your settlers like normal to your cropper, open up a temporary Kingdom, and then join later when you have your 3rd expansion slot. This would be a delay for all those governors in your temporary Kingdom to joining the main Kingdom. They lose their fealty bonus when they change.

2. You let your King settle their village and open up their treasury. Then you relocate to them, and then you settle. Which of course takes a fair amount of time, and you may lose out on your cropper because of that.

[wary stratus]

Shpagin, thank you for the question. The building time reduction does not affect Wonder of the World villages. The cost reduction also does not apply to these villages.

[cyan knot]

Sorry, why do dukes have to be govs first and why they have to be relocated to the king treasury?
Can't they settle their croppers and be remotely assigned as dukes?

[wary stratus]

@cyan knot this was something that was originally introduced on the Test round that explored disbanding Kingdom Unions. You can find more details in this post. Let me know if you have any other questions.

[cyan knot]

Oh... Sorry for not fully reading the initial ruleset. I'll do that now. Thanks for helping out ❤️

[wary stratus]

You're good. Thanks for the questions! I'm sure you aren't the only person who missed that detail.

[bronze raptor]

Mostlikely ”sacrificial gov” or dual is used to reserve croppers

Just like gauls are used to take croppers for teut royals

[dull fox]

Patch Notes for test world

https://blog.kingdoms.com/release-notes-v-0-110-test-world/

[azure igloo]

Getting some bonuses from being loyal to your kingdom is great. Same thing with those from achieving some goals on that server but if this deppend from your account lvl of prestige is unfair to new players. And they are already in disadvantage because they don't know everything.
2nd thing is movement of the troops shouldn't be there, this will create so much chaos both for defenders attackers.

And really? you have to add more bonuses for gold?
There is enough "pay to win" already in this game.

[next jackal]

Just chaos. How will you make a plan in TK/GT if you don't know who will have what bonus to the troops' speed?
There will be many mistakes. Troops speed is removable.

[wary stratus]

Hey there.
The team is already working on potential alternative bonuses and speed bonus I hear is one for which the Kingdoms team wanted me to pass along their thanks for, please keep the feedback coming!

If you or anyone else have thoughts regarding the other bonuses. Maybe you think the order should be different.
Maybe there are others that need to be increased/decreased.
Maybe there is another one like the speed boost that should be replaced.

Now that we are testing this feature I look forward to hearing more from all of you regarding your thoughts.

[next jackal]

I will share my observations in a few days. This was after reading the blog post.

[wary stratus]

Appreciate that! Thanks!

[queen anchor]

Hey Wheat Dragon!

A good idea i guess would be removing fealty bonusses when a acc gets banned.

Thanks

[wary stratus]

Hey Th0mm! Thank you for providing this valuable feedback!

[finite vale]

Can you explain a little more?

[azure igloo]

maybe a bonus to the size of warehouse and granary?

[jovial plover]

Sorry, I can't get behind the "retention bonus" and the RET mumbo jumbo when a team hijacked sessions using scripts INGAME and all they got was a slap on their wrists.

I'm still reading stuff and will probably waste a lot of time here later on, but this was the one part that caught my eye.

[wary stratus]

No feedback is a waste of time.

[jovial plover]

I'd also like to see the "harsher" punishments we were promised before we consider giving out the prestige bonus to people that have been cheating and winning for years.

1% can be quite a lot.

[modern violet]

can we make this game less pay to win please the gap is to big already

[bronze raptor]

Dont worry it has been promised for years

[bronze raptor]

And then adding ”buy prestige” to gold shop

[finite vale]

@wary stratus Wasn't it with travian plus in first announcement 2 years ago

[wary stratus]

Can you elaborate a little more? Im not quite sure what your question is.

[bronze raptor]

That the now 10g/2day fealty bonus was orignally included in plus

[finite vale]

I remember in the announcement 2 years ago that everyone with Travian Plus would already have a fealty boost

Why did they change their mind within 2 years and decided to sell the fealty bonus separately?

[wary stratus]

Good question. I’ll poke around see if I can find that information.

It may have been how it was originally introduced, but I would say that this feature versus the one that was originally proposed is very different.

[wary stratus]

I cant speak to the development process, but I’ll for sure see if I can get an answer.

[bronze raptor]

They have one thing in common, neither should be implemented in the current state of the game

[wary stratus]

I wanted to revisit this more.
They have discussed the kingdom limits. To which you said fealty would remove the need for a “member lock” and serve as disincentive for “trading out players” that we discussed in the other chat.
And that you would even want harsh fealty bonuses in that event.

So I’m trying to figure things out here. Are you saying no Fealty and that you don’t want to interact with it until there are Kingdom limits?
Or no fealty at all?

[bronze raptor]

No fealty without kingdom limits

and then fealty in steroids

[wary stratus]

That’s what I thought.
So, I am not in charge of development. I’m not in charge of anything really. I’m just here to collect feedback, engage with ideas, advocate for your thoughts and get answers to questions.

I don’t know when Fealty will be fully introduced. I don’t know when kingdom limits will be introduced. But I’ve never seen like a hard “time” before like we did with the most recent blog: “this year.” I’ve seen high priority, soon, etc, but I’ve not seen that.
So I have immensely high confidence that we will see Kingdom Cap soon.

That being said. I worry that if you keep living on this hill of “I won’t test it or give feedback until they give me that” - you won’t get to properly have your voice heard on Fealty.

And if that doesn’t happen I can’t engage, refine and advocate for the ideas that you share and express. This is currently directed at you, but it goes for everyone. You may or may not think that this is high priority, that’s fine.
But it’s what is here currently. And what there is a test for.

Every single time you make a suggestion about how fealty is structured add in “but we need to have a Kingdom cap first” if you need to.
But please. Share your thoughts. Get specific. Let’s get into the nitty gritty of this mechanic.

[wary stratus]

Hello, there. I'm out for the day.
Something that I would like to discuss tomorrow more in detail is "Fealty - how do you feel so far? Are you earning points too fast? Too slow? Just right? Let me know."

I am sure that some of you may have ran into issues regarding Duke requirements involving governor status first. If you have any thoughts, there - feel free to share. I am personally stuck on the fence for this topic area. I like it because it takes extra planning for these fast starts. But I do wonder if the conditions are too stringent for newer players exploring the role of King.
I remember the first time I played King and it was a very steep learning curve. This adds another barrier to that curve.

I noticed just a little bit ago that there was an update to the simulator regarding the new bonuses. I look forward to trying to figure out tomorrow how those are applied (aka, order of equation for calculating troop strength).

I hope that you all have a good start to your morning and look forward to catching up with this chat later!

https://blog.kingdoms.com/release-notes-v-0-110-test-world/

[hard escarp]

Fealty levels are definitely accumulating too fast, i know we're on a x5 but even slowed to x3 or x1 this would be too fast imo
players need to be encouraged to get in their final destination kingdom asap or risk not being able to catch up the fealty bonuses, for it to properly function

[bronze raptor]

This is my initial thoughts also, also the beginner prot bonus is imo way too high

But have to see how the more "powerful" boosts unlock to make final decision

[finite vale]

lvl 10 in 19h

[bronze raptor]

In general I don't understand why it is good thing to make it favorable to stay in bp

[hard escarp]

I guess for those starting late to catch up & be able to compete with camps maybe?
but agree I don't really understand the logic

[finite vale]

It's a gap for abusers :)

[bronze raptor]

It doesn't work like that, those who start on time also get the same boost so they are not catching up

[dull fox]

Yup, it's a good catch-up mechanism (in that situation now where I switched Kingdoms) - and I also feel the need to find a Kingdom faster 😄

[bronze raptor]

Its not a catch up mechanism if it is on since day1..

[dull fox]

If someone already has a team - it's just additional boost, true

[bronze raptor]

"if someone" we are talking bout the majority in here 😄

Now atleast on the 5x the drop is pretty sizeable

[dull fox]

Well, yes. I still like the approach that players still loking for a team can catch up so maybe there's another option out there

Leveling is very fast

[bronze raptor]

They will not catch up... EVERYONE gets the bonus

If anything it only makes the gap bigger for those who have premade and those who dont

[finite vale]

in with these speed, i can stay in a wing until last 5 days of lvl 100 ww

and i can reach lvl 20 bonus :)

[hard escarp]

it feels wrong that it is wrapped around BP have to agree

[finite vale]

If we talk specifically about X5, it would make more sense to earn 1 lvl every day

[dull fox]

It could activate for let's say 24 hours after finding/switching a Kingdom 😶‍🌫️ - Still doesn't solve what you mentioned here

[bronze raptor]

or atleast make the more impactful ones way slower to get

[hard escarp]

yep a level a day would be a lot harder to make back
it's sad that we have to look at how these things will be abused
but they will

[bronze raptor]

Hence, I don't understand whats the point of having it in first place

[hard escarp]

for top fealty levels you should struggle to get them twice in a server

[dull fox]

Valid points, thanks. And the speed as well, good to go over different options so it feels rewarding yet doesn't give 10 levels in 1 day

[bronze raptor]

Imo it shouldn't be possible

[hard escarp]

well i get that some people do have a bad start

[bronze raptor]

Like after day 5 or something

[dull fox]

So a late starter boost during beginner's protection?

[bronze raptor]

If you want to have catch up mechanic sure, just gotta make sure it doen't give incentive to start late (highly doubt that tho)

[karmic kestrel]

Somehow I feel silly I didn't see this cominig 😂

[bronze raptor]

I think catch up mechanics in travian would be stupid

[dull fox]

Yeh, late start comes with losses the fealty boost will not alone cover

[hard escarp]

and if legit newbies do have a bad start
like if they join a bad king/kingdom
they may need another choice
so i'm not against some buffer
but not that players can switch time & time again

[finite vale]

I can't even imagine what will happen on the 10th day when people gain fealty so fast. I wonder that our friend, who farmed 1 million res in 12 hours, what will do with the siege + brewery bonus + 9% attack bonus?

[bronze raptor]

He will siege treasury and after get 10% pop penalty

[finite vale]

his next ban will be lobby ban

[bronze raptor]

Sure

[timid fjord]

I still don't understand the reason behind this function.
If you start playing a server and then find out that the kingdom you joined is bad 9/10 people will find this out at the time for next server to start.
Will TK change so servers are longer and fewer during a year so people have a reason to change kingdoms instead of just leaving the server and go for next?
Feels like TK is handing out bonuses for no reason...

[hard escarp]

it is to try & encourage players to find their forever kingdom asap
and stay in it for as long as poss
also it's better for Kings to hold onto their Gov's, than have them join & leave each day to allow for their shenanigans
I think the idea behind it is to help smaller teams be stronger, because the bigger teams take longer to get everyone inside borders
but
at the moment the speed of recovery is too easy, so there is no rush to get into the main kingdom, meaning bigger teams just have more fully functioning wing kingdoms & farm their treasures until they can join the main kingdom

[timid fjord]

So... If i play as a king in a big kingdom I will just focus on getting my best govs with highest rank in to my kingdom fastest.
Then all other that are in my premade. After this I can start looking for new members.
Sounds like new players will be neglected and refused to enter kingdoms because the big kingdoms need to add their own players first...
Currently there are always spots for new players in the kingdoms but with this system I feel spots will be more reserved and it will make it harder for new players.
Missing out on fealty bonuses, no reason for kingdoms to invite new players.

[finite vale]

But in the end bonusses make more stronger metas than small kingdom :)

[bronze raptor]

If the idea was to make smaller teams stronger It just doesn't work since it makes the bigger ones even stronger than before

[hard escarp]

I agree
and that's why i hope that some things get changed

[bronze raptor]

Its not fixable with fealty

[edgy stag]

I would personally love to have the speed of generating fealty moved from BP outside of it. That would probably stop the playstyle of sitting at 199 pop and just smashing troops/searching for animals. If there is an incentive for players to get out of BP asap, it could make the early game much more explosive (which for me equals fun)

[wary stratus]

Productive conversation while I was gone!
I've worked through everything generally. Thank you everyone for your thoughts yesterday regarding the Travian Plus vs. separate boost. That information has been passed along and I will let you know as soon as I have an update.

I have a lot of questions that I would like to touch upon today/this weekend.

Seems like the general consensus to my question last night is that Fealty levels are earned too fast.
When thinking about Fealty Point generation, what would you say the optimal time length would be? For example, a x3 is typically 55-60 days an x1 is typically 145-155 days.
For someone to reach level 20, what percentage of the gameworld/days on an x1/x3 would be preferable?

Just for a benchmark to start this conversation conversation, let's say that as long as you have someone in the Kingdom by T2 release, that they'll have max Fealty (in theory) when the WW's open.
x3 that would mean ~30 days for level 20.
x1 that would be ~81 days for level 20.

[bronze raptor]

t2 is too late to get max fealty, I think for the max bonuses you should be on your "final kingdom" around in weekish (in 3x time)

[finite vale]

It would be better if the time arrangement was like this

It makes sense that those who don't want to be part of the main kingdom would lose something. Speaking on an x3 basis, if a player does not enter the main kingdom within 15 days, it means that he does not want the fealty bonus anyway

[wary stratus]

Ohhh interesting. So if they join after T2 release (since it's on Day 14 - one day difference). They just woudn't get any bonuses?

[wary stratus]

Okay, so like... 38 days on x3
And ~95 days on x1 ?

[timid fjord]

Whenever the fealty tops out is when the first of the real combats starts if the attackbonus is still around.
After that the next will be at WW lvl90+ as usual on all servers.

[wary stratus]

Well, one way that I keep thinking about Fealty (with or without a kingdom cap) is that it would naturally encourage "early" operations.
I have my reservations for incentivizing further people holding onto their armies all gameworld. So I think it needs to be slightly earlier than that, but I'm open to others thoughts on this.

[finite vale]

Yes, it would make sense that they cannot open a new account after T2 and cannot receive a fealty bonus. I wish the menhir would be removed after T2 :)

[bronze raptor]

Problem is it just doesnt need thinking without cap. If its implemented without it will ruin the game even further

[wary stratus]

I have this documented and passed along all the conversation that we've had on this topic.

[bronze raptor]

I know. I just want to keep it up because the devs usually ”forget” these minor details..

[hard escarp]

we have to work it in reverse
what would be the latest you would need to be in a kingdom to send your hammer at day 140
if you say from 0 to 20 takes 95 days, then that means they need to be in final kingdom by day 45

[timid fjord]

9% Attack bonus is way to high not to build an army to wait for this. So IF the bonus is left in the game the hardcore players will wait until then to make real ops. Then we can decide on when we reach level 17 fealty...
Either at T2 or 15 days after the server or maybe just give all fealty bonuses at T2 and lock everyone more or less in the current kingdom.

On another note I think Def bonus should be available before attack bonus...

[wary stratus]

So you as well think it would be better to set "max" to happen after WW release? So the final level bonuses would be earned during end game kind of for everyone?

[hard escarp]

also I would have crop bonus earlier and Off/Def bonus later

[bronze raptor]

With kingdom cap it should come around week 1-2 in 3x and then grow stronger steadily

[finite vale]

If you earn 1 lvl everyday in X3, you can reach lvl 17 fealty at day 17 so its a good time to make operations

[wary stratus]

Got it added! We are going to dive into "order" and replacements this weekend more. Do a little bit of a "draft my bonus". See who get's taken first - who gets taken last.

[timid fjord]

Sure but if we move attackbonus lower then it will take longer time.
But then we need to check when WW drops and when people are added to the final kingdom.
Say for example you get Atk bonus at 20 and you join your final kingdom on day 3. This will make it day 23 if you earn 1 level each day.
Sadly I don't know when the WW drops on a x3 server but I would assume around day 30-35? Then the questions is will people wait for WW to drop and go hard on the endgame or will people hit hard at day 25ish and then rebuild for endgame?

[finite vale]

44

Rebuilding is very easy with tents

[bronze raptor]

These ”break points” for making ops are dumb IMO. Makes the early/mid game snooze fest

[timid fjord]

So day 23-25 you reach 9% bonus.
This means not much action happens until day 25-30 and then people will hit hard with ops and then have a rebuild time and then hit WW hard at end of the server...

[finite vale]

Every kingdoms' gameplay is different but yes it will happen like you said

[timid fjord]

Early game might not exist anymore if you don't force it by settling another kingdom WW.
mid game will more or less be a little active at day 25-30 until the armies are dead and you need to rebuild and then it will be a snooze until it is rebuilt and ready to hit WW...

[bronze raptor]

The attack bonus gives incentive to sit on the hammers which imo is not good for the gameplay

[timid fjord]

That is what I am trying to explain

[bronze raptor]

Good 😄

[finite vale]

Btw i don't like to see defense and attack bonusses

[potent ridge]

who likes seing speed bonuses tho

[finite vale]

The 4% def bonus in a 300 players meta scares me

And 9% off bonus with teuton is overpowered

When it can scale with siege+brewery

[queen anchor]

1 off player with 10% bonus off vs 1 ww with 300 ppl having 4% def bonus

[bronze raptor]

Def bonus can be used in capped kingdom members

[finite vale]

if we have @fast stream could calculate it total attack bonus of teuton with 9% extra bonus

[timid fjord]

I think we have given reason enough to get them removed...

[bronze raptor]

Now we just have to hope they are removed

[finite vale]

If you find better bonusses, they will remove it

[timid fjord]

-4% training time will be fun too if you are a Teuton... The Clubspam is real

[finite vale]

It isn't op like attack bonus

We need to find 3 new bonusses instead of movement speed-attack bonus and defense bonus

[wary stratus]

Oh that reminds me that I want to play around with the Sim to see how it's calculated.

[bronze raptor]

Movement bonus between own/kingdom villages, merchant speed, ware/granary capa

[timid fjord]

Markets and Traders...
2-3 more traders
50% more capacity
20% higher speed on traders...

[potent ridge]

ware/granary size could be interesting

50% to much

[wary stratus]

Well, I said we would do this tomorrow, but it seems like we keep rotating into bonuses. So I think we just go ahead and start talking about it today. Let's figure out which ones aren't really "liked". Obviously movement speed.
But now we have attack/defense boost.

Any others in that list?

[finite vale]

Yes i can't see bonus about traders

Feeding ww is so hard with good def players, because traders aren't enough for it

a bonus for traders will be perfect

[bronze raptor]

We have to first settle on if we want fealty to be ”playstyle defining” mechanic or collection of QoL thingys. Or just brainstorm both

[timid fjord]

50% is 500 for teuton and 250 for Roman...

[finite vale]

Not to dislike, but these are the 3 bonuses that disrupt the game dynamics and balance

[potent ridge]

per merchant, you forgot that, its like a free trading post

[wary stratus]

It depends on what you are most receptive to.
I think I lean more towards QoL things, especially for the "Prestige Bonus". But I'm not opposed to attack bonuses on the regular Fealty Bonus structure.

[finite vale]

Fealty should be a feature that will prevent players from creating side kingdoms and playing outside the main kingdom, but these features should not destroy the balance of the game

[bronze raptor]

So mostlikely the route to go is amp up the training bonuses?

[bronze raptor]

I think the prestige bonuses should go in the first place.

[timid fjord]

(REMOVE Attack bonus 17 6% 9%)
(REMOVE Defense bonus 18 2% 4%)
(REMOVE Troop movement speed 19 3% 4%)

(ADD Trader speed for internal kingdom trades)
(ADD Trader capacity for internal kingdom trades)
(ADD Amount of traders)

[bronze raptor]

I think the initial % of training boost could be lower and it could go higher over time

[timid fjord]

Would be really fun to see more trading inside the kingdoms...

[finite vale]

3 bonusses for same thing isn't good

maybe giving extra oasis bonus will be good, 5% extra oasis bonus if you reach lvl 17 fealty

[bronze raptor]

Some of the higher impact bonuses must be buffed to keep the fealty strong enough to keep players from hopping

[wary stratus]

Where do you think it would fit. Right now it's Levels 15/16.

[bronze raptor]

I’d say from the start and just amplify the bonus you get per level or every few levels

[wary stratus]

Per oasis?

[wary stratus]

Okay. What would do you think a good max would be?

Right now it's 4%

[bronze raptor]

For example start with 1% and have it cap in 20 for about 20

[wary stratus]

So 20% training time reduction?

[bronze raptor]

And make the curve frontheavy

[timid fjord]

Let's see if I can make something with this plan...

[bronze raptor]

It has to be strong to make the system work the way its supposed

[wary stratus]

Define this a little better. When you say front heavy... you get higher bonuses faster?

[potent ridge]

i think he means the bonuses goes by little and at end gives like 5%

[bronze raptor]

Lets say level 1 1%, level 3 2% level 15 15%

[potent ridge]

like the curve goes higher drasticly at end

[wary stratus]

This is what I would think would make the most sense.

[bronze raptor]

Should have more steps prolly but i think you get the idea

[wary stratus]

Get players in "sooner".

[bronze raptor]

And when the bonus is higher earlier, ”punishment” for kingdom hopping is stronger

[wary stratus]

Wouldn't the bonus being higher earlier limit the punishment of hopping Kingdoms?

[bronze raptor]

No. Since you lose big bonus immediately

[wary stratus]

Right, but you would gain it back as fast though?

[bronze raptor]

1 week of not having ~10% training bonus is a lot

Especially for def players since it multiplies with village count

[potent ridge]

wait so, youre going for higher bonuses faster?

[bronze raptor]

Again times and numbers are shaken from sleeve

[bronze raptor]

Start with low and make it ramp up relatively fast

[wary stratus]

I'm going to paint a picture so that I'm positive we are on the same page, because to me you've said two different things 😂

[bronze raptor]

Maybe mie heavy curve would be the way to go

I’ll do a diagram sec

[potent ridge]

but if you pump it up relatvely fast, it makes no diference for normal but for kingdom hoppers it would

[wary stratus]

Like this?

Or like this?

[bronze raptor]

like this

the first leg has to be long enough to encourage staying in

[potent ridge]

but its better for kingdom hoppers this way no?

[bronze raptor]

If the first leg before the rapid rise is long enough no

front heavy not good, mid heavy yes 😄

for example

[timid fjord]

1. ADD Trader speed for internal kingdom trades 20% and at top Fealty 100%
2. Bonus vs. Robbers 10%
3. Combat bonus vs. wild Oases 10%
4. Hero revival cost -18%
5. Hero revival time -18%
6. ADD Oasis bonus % 5%
7. Culture points per day (50% of current helm bonus)
8. Hero XP bonus 7%
9. Troop carrying capacity +15%
10. Total crop consumption -5%
11. Workshop training costs -9%
12. Cavalry training costs -9%
13. Infantry training costs -9%
14. Healing tent healing cost -9%
15. Building time reduced -9%
16. Building cost reduced -5%
17. ADD Amount of traders 3
18. Infantry training time -5%
19. Cavalry training time -5%
20. Healing tent healing time -5%

Passive bonus +5% storage / level of fealty?
% Are tested on current TEST server I assume

Something like this order and bonuses?

[true kite]

aalya has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[bronze raptor]

after that point the punishment for hopping is punished harder and harder

[wary stratus]

Feel free to edit this. I'll make sure to come back to it later 🙂

[finite vale]

Surprisingly, I think the fealty level system is in a decent order

[bronze raptor]

If the training times comes too late its not gonna have that much difference

[timid fjord]

We are talking about ending the fealty at day 25 on x3 server...

[bronze raptor]

Well then it is meaningful if the % is big enough

That might actually be better idea than mine. Get it say 25 on 3x and have 20ish% bonus

[potent ridge]

i'd still say 20% is way to much

[timid fjord]

I would say something like 10% tops.

[potent ridge]

it would benefit deff way to much compared to off player.
since it works on all vilages

[timid fjord]

Added some preliminary %

[potent ridge]

i think youre looking this from speed games perspective to much if you think about it bein x1 like +366 culture points a day? thats more then the glad helm gives. also at x1 at level 7 you'd get it around what day 15-20? around that day ppl usually only have like 3-4 villas? that's to much imo. i'd still say other ammounts are also quite big. like sorry but even 5-10% total training time in barrack stables would make quite a difference for people to not switch kingdoms

[timid fjord]

The discussion was based around x3.
I guess I am assuming to much when I think TK will change the bonuses from X3 to X1 and also those % is top you can get...

[bronze raptor]

10% is T1 helm, it has to be strong to keep people in

[potent ridge]

and if you add 20% to t2 helm to t3 helm? its to much even with 10% it changes alot

[bronze raptor]

But isnt that the point to make it ”mandatory” to get the bonuses? Or should we turn our eyes rather on crop consumption bonus.

[potent ridge]

i'm sorry but dont 10% look mandatory in youre eys?

[finite vale]

Are you talking about to add 20% bonus to troop prod time?

[timid fjord]

I don't play X3 so don't know much about that.
If we go for X1 just training reduction 10%+ will be OP... BUT if you make it 15% tops with 5% in T1 10% in T2 and 15% in T3 it will even it out and make it better I think

[bronze raptor]

Less mandatory than 10%. But it always comes down to input/output ratio

[timid fjord]

Changed this to 50% of current helm.
I think it would be better to base most bonuses around available Tier to make it better during the server...

[potent ridge]

i mean in my eyes ass deff player even 10% looks op because it reduces the training time in all vilages

and it looks mandatory

[wary stratus]

@finite vale do you still think this? If so, per oasis? If not - just say so and I won't chase this thought any further.

[bronze raptor]

Yeah thats fair, any troop bonus is super strong on def players

[finite vale]

Per oasis isn't look bad

[timid fjord]

150% crop bonus with 5% bonus makes it 165% crop bonus.
In my world that sounds fair
Not sarcasm. I actually think it is fair for the biggest oasis bonus you can get

[wary stratus]

Awesome! Good to know!

I'll try to pull together all these ideas into a "big picture" by the end of this conversation. We can have a few columns of ideas at the end. Good, Bad, Broken, etc. We can catergorize them as we go along.

[bronze raptor]

That being said it could work pretty well on capped kingdom size with not being able to reinf other kingdoms

[wary stratus]

So - there was a good point that was brought up earlier.
The healing tent pretty much undisputably benefited defense accounts more than offense accounts.

What if Fealty for training time only applied to your capital villages? This would still give a benefit to defensive accounts, but may offset some of the healing tent bonus to defense by being a slightly better perk on the offense side?

[timid fjord]

There is a lot of other bonuses for def players so I would say that is a good suggestion too

[hard escarp]

all these curve drawings remind me of covid
"flatten the curve" 😄

[bronze raptor]

Lets not open that can of worms

[hard escarp]

some interesting suggestions being discussed

[wary stratus]

And what are your thoughts? Anything stick out to you? Anything missing?

[hard escarp]

I like the idea of extra storage, not sure that got discussed further?
like how many times have we wished for GW or GG in Cap

[wary stratus]

Okay. What do you think the storage benefits should be? Minimum and maximum.

[hard escarp]

could go as max as 100%?

it's not like it's punishing others you having more storage

it would give more options when there are not enough build slots

[wary stratus]

What would the ramp up looking like? 5% per level would be distributing it evenly.

Or would it increase with time?

[hard escarp]

5% per level seems reasonable?

if you had less storage buildings, you could have more tents
or more treasuries
or just more granary space generally

etc

[timid fjord]

Maybe... We could have it outside the other bonuses? So instead of putting it on a list you will have it as pasive and each level you increase you get 5% more storage?

[timid fjord]

Added it...

[sour bone]

Just a wild idea, but suits the lore:

A stolen goods / tribue value bonus
Someone who's a governor of a kingdom for a long time should be more reputable and hence be able to negotiate the prices of his stolen good with his royals more, right?
And at the same time a royal who's been the main figure of the kingdom for a long time should be more respectable and hence their subjects should pay more tributes

[sterile umbra]

bring back the changeable tribute system XD

i liked to told the govs to settle into my area instead, cus i take lower taxes 🤣

[jagged cobalt]

What about having an higher number of bonuses and player can make his choice? What suits him better.

[gritty vigil]

having option to choose from different bonuses which suits your gameplay is interesting idea. like you could choose between off or deff bonus for example

[gritty vigil]

here is issue. what if off player wants to build non capital main army. or multiple off armies ? isn´t he punished by only capital fealty bonus

[wary stratus]

No. They are incentivized. The universe that we are talking about here a player could still make the same size armies that you have seen in the past in any other village.
But in this case, there would be a benefit for having it in a capital.

I think if you apply a 10% training boost (just for ease - it's an easy number).
You'll have players like @hard escarp that make 80k+ extra defense troops (and they get them back faster due the healing tent) and then you'll have players like @tame vessel who make a hammer that maybe has 40k+ extra power in this universe.
Now apply that across an entire Kingdom.

I see it naturally manifesting as a 5% defense perk, at minimum, if it's applied across the entire account.

This purely an estimation, I don't know this for fact
Alright.... I've done some math.
I think in order to get max level fealty... it takes like 28 days on x5 in order to hit max level fealty.

Does anyone else have a different forecast?

[bronze raptor]

"Being active in a kingdom is rewarded with fealty points!" This is quite misleading since your activity doesnt affect your fealty gain

[wary stratus]

Alright. I've spent a little time burning the midnight oil tonight to pull together our weekend conversations on this proposed feature.

Right now, I haven't really heard negatives for about 14 of the 20 bonuses. I'll try to lay out all of the concerns in this post. Feel free to support or negate any. Add in any concerns that I don't have listed.

Small concerns:
Troop training cost in Workshop should be put to Fealty Level 10, not Fealty Level 8.

Medium concerns:
Attack / Defense Bonus

Strong concerns:
Troop movement speed.

Suggested replacements or additions to Fealty Bonuses:

Add trader speed for internal Kingdom Trades. (20-100%)

Add Oasis Bonus (per oasis). (1-5%)

Number of Bonus Traders in the Marketplace (1-3)

Increased carrying capacity for traders (5% - 50%)

Increased storage capacity #1. (5-50%)

Increased storage capacity #2 (1 - 20%)

Alright... we have two polls. ^^^
This will be a good starting point for the conversation. Please add in additional thoughts that were not included in the first post just above the polls and I look forward to getting all sorts of caught up tomorrow 🙂

[wary stratus]

(I realize there isn't a good poll option for - "everything is good the way it is"). Please feel free to add a message below or send me a PM if that is your opinion. If a topic doesn't receive any votes, I will take that as an indication that there is not a lot of concern around it.

Please add your thoughts below as you vote (if you haven't already)!

[finite vale]

I'm still waiting to see total teuton attack bonus with fealty @fast stream

https://tenor.com/view/don’t-make-me-beg-gif-18284150441593567102

[fast stream]

what do you mean?

33% + 20% + 20% + 9%?

+109%?

a single club will do 120

idk how this bonus will apply, it can be as low as original 9% or as high as 14.4% (~17% for teutons) on top of others

[finite vale]

Siege + Brewery + Hero Attack Bonus + Fealty

I guess siege is increasing all other bonusses

[fast stream]

+109

[finite vale]

Hmm

Wasn't it 58% without fealty?

[fast stream]

if it's confusing,
sometimes bonuses are applied on base numbers and then added to whole
sometimes bonuses are applied on top of whole

in this game, bonuses boost the other bonuses too (usually)
so we have a unit a with 100 that already had 50% bonus (+50)
adding another 10% not only gives +10 on base, it also gives +5 for the previous bonus

[finite vale]

So teuton was now broken and now with fealty overpowered

[fast stream]

it's not much a difference, only 3% ish

[sterile umbra]

[fast stream]

this brought dino

[sterile umbra]

nerf teutons

[fast stream]

:))

[sterile umbra]

now i go back and train deff against those teutons, have a nice day 😄

[fast stream]

now all tribes have +74.4% attack bonus (raised from +60%)
teutons have +109% attack bonus (with brewery) (raised from +92%)

[sterile umbra]

but i didnt knew to brewery bonus is counted as givving bonus to the other bonuses, not just to the base power

so i underestimated teutons power in my calculations, and they even more broken than what i thought before

https://tenor.com/view/riot-gif-22170733

[finite vale]

Attack is often weak against defense

If noone farms 3m in firs 24h

[fast stream]

I don't think this whole fealty system change anything that much
it's a fixed bonus applied to most players, small portion of players without kingdom will just die easier late game
rest players inside kingdom all have boosts, so what's the point?

I feel it's like an automatic "skill tree" system that builds everyone exactly same 🙂

[sour bone]

It's just a bit... lazy

[sterile umbra]

its dont change much agree, those things what are broken stay broken, and those what are not stay not 😅
like i am not exactly sure how this system make metas more broken, if my team have 3x more member-troop than your's, than if we all get the same % bonus, our relative power compared to each other dont change

[sterile umbra]

yeah would be nice to remove pvp combat related bonuses, and make you able to pick from the other bonuses, and you could invest more into x or y , so you get more bonus, but specific, and not combat related, cus then everybody will just rush the biggest off/deff % bonus 😄

[sour bone]

I highly doubt TG goes for an actual talent system anytime soon (as much as I love it does)

[sterile umbra]

i like the idea of giving the option to give a bit personal touch to your account, by picking small bonuses

[sterile umbra]

probably, but thats how this system make sense to me, currently its like when we had mayhem

[sour bone]

I think it's a solid "first step" tbh. It's lazy, but good for first step
If they iterate through it fast enough, it can really make the game way more fun with small choices and such and build for an actual talent system
But that's a big big "if"

[fast stream]

tbh that's not if

that's sure not happening

[sour bone]

Hope is what gives our short lives meaning! I won't give up on it yet 😛

[finite vale]

Extra 4% def bonus of 300 players vs extra 4% def bonus of 100 players

It scales with player numbers

[fast stream]

it's still a %

[finite vale]

Early boosted rammers are more stronger

[fast stream]

300 / 100 = 3
312 / 104 = 3

[finite vale]

Is it basic like that? KEKW

[fast stream]

same with late hammers, but there aren't kingdoms with only def or only off

if enemy has 9% stronger rammer, we have 9% stronger rammer too

[queen anchor]

% wise yes, but strength numers not, right?

[fast stream]

battles in travian happens in %

[timid fjord]

Would be a lot more interesting to try fealty with fixed kingdom sizes. It would make it somewhat more tactical.
As the game is now the winning tactic is to farm inactives have 300+ members wait for WW lvl 90. Hit and hope for the best...

[queen anchor]

What

[gritty vigil]

@wary stratus does building time also affects treasury building or demolishing time ?

[fast stream]

thing is 100 vs 300 is screwed, with or without bonuses.

[visual nymph]

It was reported in our chat that the in game battle simulator isn't properly calculating on test server.

oases, hideouts

[next jackal]

https://prnt.sc/m6ywSBgaj6lm

Of course, the attack bonus will not support cheaters 🙂

They will be unstoppable after 10 server days. They will still get a boost from Fealty.Bonus to attack, defense, troops speed. This can all be removed.

[fast stream]

According to simulator fealty bonus applies on base strength and doesn't boost everything
I'm not sure yet if it's simulator error or it's coded this way

[finite vale]

https://tenor.com/view/based-on-what-source-according-to-who-vi-sevika-gif-24431506

[honest patio]

If you use beginner's protection till the end + fealty boost: ≈18 days
If you use beginner's protection till the end + without boost: ≈20 days

Assuming instant breaking the beginner's protection;

With fealty boost: ≈ 19,5 days
Without boost: ≈ 23 days

[wary stratus]

What is the points needed that you calculated for level 20 fealty?

[wary stratus]

So level 11 is 1,792.

I think Level 20 is going to be 20,000 ponits. That's my best guess.

[honest patio]

Level 12 is 1792

[honest patio]

You are level 11 currently.

[bronze raptor]

Could we get the numbers from devs next week so we can make proper calculations

[wary stratus]

I think it generally increases 30% per level, so that puts it a lot higher than 15k.

[honest patio]

The multiplier between levels basically 1.3

[wary stratus]

I asked last week. I hope to hear more this week 🙂

I see what you're saying now.

[honest patio]

All players start from "bronze" level 1, then it turns" silver" level 1

[wary stratus]

Yeah. Classic case of counting "0" when it doesn't exist 😂

I wasn't in a Kingdom until just a few minutes ago. I'm trying to test some other things.

So I'm not even through that level yet.

[honest patio]

Yeah

I calculated also taking into account daily points production change based on tier 2/3 items releases.

Overall, if you are using gold boost by starting as king/instantly joining a kingdom, you reach level 20 in 18 days 6 hours as the earliest

[wary stratus]

That has reminded me of a question that I had the other day.

Do we think Fealty should slow down with time? Or speed up?
Right now it's speeding up.

Generally half the gameworld will be with max Fealty then (if you got into your Kingdom on day 1)

[honest patio]

If what is desired is to balance between early sign-ups and late sign-ups, it should be speeding up.

[wary stratus]

But what do you think?

[gritty vigil]

using 1x format. maybe modify speeds the way that let say first 7 lvls would be reached around start of T2(40) . lvl 14 around start T3(day80) and lvl 20 between day100-111. so even if you start late (T2 lock/day 40) you should be able to reach all bonuses before end of server

[gritty vigil]

if you try to balance this. wouldn´t it mean you are giving more room for creating wings and messing with menhirs for awhile knowing you will catch up anyway not really incentivizing to join kingdom early as intended?

[honest patio]

Yes, you are right on your point. To prevent this from happening, the fealty production of those who join the main kingdom after a certain number of days may be reduced depending on their account age/number of the days they spent outside of the main kingdom

[upper pulsar]

Maybe make fealty generation x2 from T2, x3 from T3, but only if you were in the kingdom before T2 started.

[shut night]

The training bonus of -1.5% in barrack makes no sense. The higher the barrack level the lower bonus. At a training time of 1.5 min(90sec) will give a bonus of 1.4 sec so a little less than 89 sec. 1 unit more every 2 hours, 12 units a day.

[sterile umbra]

🤔thats not how math work tho

If barrack training speed count as 100% in every lvl, then the reduction is the same in each lvl

And if its count as 23% training -1,5% = 21,5% then the higher the lvl the more you get

So at least its remain the same boost to your overal production the bonus As barrack lvl increase

Not reduced

[river rampart]

remove the troop movement speed. this is unnecessary and very hard to make operation plans - Add workshop training time reduce. with %5 defence bonus wonders are more strong and safe.

[sterile umbra]

But you have 9% off bonus also

[bronze raptor]

Do you also have some kind of robber bonus?

[sterile umbra]

But agree with movement speed deleting

[river rampart]

1 attacker %9 bonus aganist 200 player %5 bonus in wonder

I mean catapults wont be enough in late game with this bonusses

[bronze raptor]

Well your account hopefully wont see the lategame

[sterile umbra]

I mean, if deff grow 5% off 9%

Then off is relative stronger

[river rampart]

Dont worry about that Im clear since 2022

[bronze raptor]

:DDDDDDDD

You comedian also now?

[sterile umbra]

Because if 10m ph get 5% bonus and 200k club get 9% bonus , the deff casualities grow

Probably the difference made to counter water ditch, because if Lua right, and % are multiplied with each other, if they buff both off and deff the same % , thats help teuton off the most, Then deff and last ww hammers

Because the 5% bonus effect water ditch bonus too

[bronze raptor]

So maybe racist admins again or?

[river rampart]

its not about clubs or phalanaxes 10k catas are reachable yeah but with this bonusses i dont think it would be enough

[river rampart]

😂 Im here to talk about feedbacks

back off

[bronze raptor]

I'm giving feedback also

How you, the kunts, sero etc farm botted accs

[queen anchor]

Fealty is like tents

Way too overpowered for deffers

Tbh most of the feedback given here now is feedback recieved like 2 years ago in the forum feedback topic

[hard escarp]

oh you mean controlling half a server wont give you the winning edge you need?

[fast stream]

fealty bonus doesn't multiply by other bonuses. it just adds
(based on simulator)

full teuton bonus gonna be about
1.33 x 1.2 x 1.2 + 0.1 pvp
1.33 x 1.2 x 1.2 x 1.37 + 0.1 + 0.08 pve

[bleak thorn]

I have strong concerns about the movement troops bonus.

This will ruin all off-op preparation. I mean we will rely heavily on devs from TK Tools and GT Tools to have the ability to handle that type of cases.

[cyan knot]

Feedback of week 1:
19/20 Fealty bonuses has absolutely no impact and doesn't matter, if there are people running around with 2 mil loot on day 2 anyway.
The remaining bonus is the troop speed - which matters a lot, because effectively it ruins the systems that experienced teams use for off opps.

[edgy stag]

The speed bonus is getting replaced by something else and we should know more in the upcoming days.

[bleak thorn]

Damn, that was fast. Thank you

[finite vale]

BP bonus will definitely be abused. The player who started 1 day later and stayed in BP for 4 days has a higher fealty level than the other

[wary stratus]

Hey Lovegood. This has been communicated up. It is being looked at to re-balance the growth curve in general.

This includes potential adjustments to the Beginner Boost to really only benefit late-joiners, not everyone right out of the start.
I don't have any other details at this moment, but will keep this chat updated as I learn more.

[finite vale]

It's more than a benefit, its a boost :)

If a player gets ahead in the game world where he started late, there is a problem

[bronze raptor]

or even on par

[fast stream]

abuse for what?

If an acc stays long time under 200 pop, means they are losing res from fields, cp from pop etc etc, whole acc development stays behind. No? And what they earn? more bonus on way weaker acc?
Or I'm missing something

I don't think it's a good trade

[finite vale]

If this acc can reach unlimited resource after he gets enough fealty level...

[fast stream]

it's the multi farming issue, but still training from day 1 on multi resource I think gets them more advantage than having one or two more fealty levels (didn't calculate)

btw, I'm happy with removing BP fealty boost
just saying it's not that beneficial to abuse

[bronze raptor]

Do you gain fealty on vacation

[fast stream]

no

[hard escarp]

it's only 1 level difference now by staying in BP

[finite vale]

https://tenor.com/view/yuge-huge-donald-trump-gif-7357158

[tacit steeple]

Today at around 14:00 UTC+2, we are changing the level 19 Fealty Bonus 'Troop movement speed' to 'Merchant travel time to kingdom members.'

• Minimum bonus is -15% and max. bonus is -20%
• Prestige bonus will grant another -5%

Please refresh your game to gain access to the new Fealty Bonus once it is live.

Thank you for the active discussions around Fealty System and feedback you've all shared so far on Discord!

[jovial plover]

Actually sexy change.

Minus prestige bonus.

[next jackal]

So. I promised to give feedback, so I will.
19 lvl fealty has already been changed, so this is a positive change. This was what bothered me the most. But I think it should also work between your own villages. I'm not lvl 19 yet to check it.
17 and 18 lvl. This is very difficult to decide. In my opinion, the current defense bonus is too high. Because what will one player do when attacking WW if he has only 10% and 200 other players have 5% each?
On the other hand, a higher attack bonus will greatly promote offensive players and offensive play. But actually it would be interesting. I think there would be more offensive action on the servers. Maybe servers wouldn't be so boring? But I'm afraid that this bonus would also promote cheaters 😉

We can always remove it completely 😉 And you can add a % increase to the warehouse and granary.

As I noticed on the TEST server, everyone receives 2500 fealty points per day. 3000 with redeemed bonus.
In the description we have
"Being active in a kingdom is rewarded with fealty points!
Players in a kingdom are awarded fealty points throughout the day. The amount depends on factors like the speed setting and the age of the game world, as well as the age of your avatar. The longer you stay in your kingdom, the more fealty points you amass. Gather fealty points to rank up your fealty level! Please note: You do not receive fealty points when you enter vacation mode or set your account to inactive."

I have an idea. Maybe let's make it so that the higher you are in the kingdom ranking (population), the more fealty points you get per day? It would be an interesting competition in the kingdoms to be higher and receive more feats. Players would build more villages and also spend more gold coins.
For example, if there are 100 players in the kingdom.
You can make thresholds. The first 20 players receive 5000 fealty, the next 20, 4500, then 4000, next 3500, 3000 and 2500 the least active, weakest players in the kingdom.

Then it would actually promote activity in the kingdom, because everyone would want to have as much daily fealty as possible. But this is just a small idea to make the game not boring and to create competition in the kingdom.

But the whole idea of fealty is very interesting. Probably the biggest update since the appearance of menhirs. The speed of troops has been changed to that of traders, so I have no other comments 😉 Only the attack and defense bonus. This is something you need to think about.

[finite vale]

How do you plan to rank the players? According to population?

[next jackal]

They are currently ranked in the kingdom by population. Only here activity = population 😉
But it would not be possible to change it and add, for example, the number of troops or treasures obtained. Because it could turn out that a player with 5000 pop is top 3 in the kingdom, and players with 10-15k pop are below him. So we know that this player with 5000 pop has a lot of troops because he is higher in the kingdom ranking 😉
So it would have to be sorted purely by population.

This is just my idea to discuss. But if someone gives a lot to the kingdom, has 10k population and a lot of troops, and another player has 2k population and much less troops, why should they receive the same amount of fealty? 😉 Let's promote active players.

[finite vale]

So if i can use "complete instantly" and "buy artworks" i can be active

More P2W

[next jackal]

you're right here too 😉

[sterile umbra]

🤔 sorry but thats not how exactly deff and off bonus works. by giving 9% to the off player and 5% to the deff players ww lvl goes down more

with the same amount of troops and catas, only % boost difference

and in killing troops obviously 9% boost is better than 5% 😄

so its the exact opposite, its help off player a little bit more already

remember when you say to the 100 deffending player get 5% boost each, and you get 9% as an off player, thats just means to the deff is 105% deff power than without the buff, and off is 109% off power compared to without this buff

so actually dont matter how many more player deffend than the 1 attacker, cus 300k off army vs. 3 mill deff is 1:10 , while if you buff of by 9% and deff by 5% its 327k vs. 3,15 mill , so 1:9,63 off /deff ratio

so you became stronger compared to the deff

[next jackal]

https://prnt.sc/aF-qsV1sBm1Q
The account was created on the 7th day of the server. On the last day before 2 trier items.

https://prnt.sc/y3_kFx2E9fHl
And here is the account created on the first day of the server.

Both accounts without the 20% fealty bonus.

Anyone know why there is such a difference?

[wary stratus]

Is this one still in Beginners Protection?

[next jackal]

yes

[hard escarp]

that is why

[next jackal]

so when beginners protection ends, fealty will drop to a "normal" level?

thx

[cyan knot]

Has anyone ever in their lives seen the Prestige lvl shown in the bottom?

[queen anchor]

Yes

20k prestige 😄

[sterile umbra]

yes

we have a gov like that

😄

in the 3. page

cus prestige dont give pop

or its dont give skill as we saw in dynasty

XD

[next jackal]

@vast kernel have 20k prestige 😛 or more ^^ 23-25k 😄

[sterile umbra]

@next jackal 🤣

[next jackal]

😄

[sterile umbra]

there is 2 kind of high prestige account:

• i tryharded 5 years in this game, winning a bunch, and makint top account each time, so i have high prestige
• i am afk simming in 40 server in the same time, super high prestige

[next jackal]

ilak is the first option 😄

[queen anchor]

@wary stratus Are we supposed to have 4500 fealty a day at the moment?

[tired edge]

i guess it should be 2750 without boost

but even i get 3750 without boost

[fast stream]

we are in t3

t4

maybe t5

[tired edge]

t3.5

[fast stream]

tk

konstant

[tired edge]

feature: changing fealty generation

[fast stream]

bp boost activated for everyone

[tired edge]

umm no

[fast stream]

part of fine tuning

then

[finite vale]

https://tenor.com/view/scaler-create-impact-any-key-programmer-coding-gif-25012205

[finite vale]

They will fix it but you know it will take time because it isn't gold shop problem KEKW

[tacit steeple]

Today, on Tuesday 23th April we have fixed a bug in the fealty system. We have corrected the fealty base production from 3750 to 2750, which is the correct production after the appearence of the tier 2 items.
Please refresh your game to see the updated production and correct resulting fealty points and level.

We appreciate your feedback and looking forward to read more 🙂

[crisp tiger]

Going from king/duke to gov locks fealthy fully.. so no more bonus even if you still are in same kingdom

"Being active in a kingdom is rewarded with fealty points!"
and im still in the kingdom

if its like a cooldown maybe we should have a time

[hard escarp]

were you a King?

it's not worded very well
but I think if Kings abdicate, their fealty is disabled for the rest of the server

[timid fjord]

If you were king for a Kingdom union. Not as a simple king with 2 duke kind of kingdom...

[crisp tiger]

so how to prevemt this? do it before union

[finite vale]

Maybe only increasing merchants speed isn't enough for lvl 19 fealty, increasing merchant's carrying capacity will be good with speed bonus

[wary stratus]

@finite vale I am passing along the results of this poll. Obviously, the highest ranked concern has been replaced. I will make sure that your thoughts regarding carrying capacity are included. Thanks!

[wary stratus]

I believe so, yes. You should retain your current fealty and the ability to generate fealty (as long as when you abdicate you stay in the same Kingdom) if you disband prior to Union.

[crisp tiger]

But if you for some reason need to change after union then you are lost, even though you are in the same kingdom
I thought this was a kingdom thing and not about being king/gov
Theres nothing kings gain extra for being king ?

[hard escarp]

sadly I think the issue is always how it could be abused
and yes if there were no downside to just disbanding a kingdom, those mega meta's would abuse it more than they already do

it's unfortunate you found out this way, but that's what test server is all about eh 🙂

fealty seems to add some extra perks in to the game
but it's not enough
I think if/when kingdom restrictions are tested we could see a positive change maybe?

[crisp tiger]

yeah its just a test server 😄

[hard escarp]

you could hardly believe it, if you look at the people so obsessed with winning it 😄

500 players not enough to win

[hard escarp]

maybe we need to chat here more again

now the server is well into mid game

personally I would like to see attack & defense % removed from fealty
if they are not to be removed
they should be reversed or those big aggressive teams will have more than a week to terrorize the lesser weaker ones from Mid Game

it took 2 days to go from L17 to L18 on x5
so would be 10 days if fealty is added to x1

[bronze raptor]

So far I haven't seen the fealty have any real effect on the gameplay, nor have i felt good about it. Imo it either has to be brokenly good or not exist at all

[wary stratus]

Define brokenly good. How should it look?

[bronze raptor]

So it affects gameplay. Otherwise its just a 0 effect addition.

[wary stratus]

I would say that this impacts gameplay if you change kingdoms.
Define what you mean. Does Fealty need to earn slower? Do the bonuses need to be larger?
Should you earn larger bonuses faster? Smaller bonuses, slower?

"Make it different" doesn't provide direction. Tell me more of your thoughts now that you've had a chance to see the features more.

[bronze raptor]

This is luke warm at most. Only must have is def and atk bonus. Outside that its just QoL that you can live without. If the goal is to keep players in one kingdom why just not lock them there why go thru balance h3ll to find way

[wary stratus]

Remember the conversation that we had in kingdom cap and how this would compliment that super well?

Do you think that would only compliment it if there are additional bonuses?

or different bonuses?

[bronze raptor]

And I really hate this tk approach of new features. Here is a test this will be implemented no matter the feedback. Its like telling I'm gonna cut your arm, but you get to choose which one so be happy.

[bronze raptor]

Kingdom cap is just a dream until its reality

I might be pessimistic but tk has give me 0 reasons not to be

And looking at the tests for new features it will be one test and then we test on production and hope we find balance. Unless we are told "this is what you wanted be happy"

And get to stick with first ituration

[wary stratus]

That's acceptable.
I can only speak to what I've seen "this year" is the first time I've seen that strong of language in regard to an addition.

So - I look at this in the light of Kingdom Cap.
If you don't want to - that's fine.

Let's go back to stronger bonuses.

Attack and defense.

Those are the only ones that matter.

According to you

What needs to change.

What else.

[bronze raptor]

IMO kingdom cap needs reinforcement limitations, to make it work with smaller kingdoms defense has to be buffed one way or another

[wary stratus]

We are on fealty.

You don't think it's happening. So let's focus here purely on fealty.

[bronze raptor]

I think it brings 0 extra value to the game and should be scrapped, has potential to bring balance issues and achieves nothing that locking players to kingdom after x time wouldn't. Either make the attack and off bonuses to activate at the same time and have them be ridicilously powerful so everyone absolutely have to stick with the kingdom they picked. Afaik the only reason they want to introduce fealty is that people would stay in kingdom the easiest way is to hard lock or soft lock you in to kingdom. Hardlock = not able to leave after day x. Softlock = make fealty so strong that swapping makes you obsolete.

This whole fealty system just grinds my gears in so many fundamental levels. NO ONE asked for this. This brings NOTHING of value to the game. It achieves NOTHING that couldn't be done with mechanics that wouldn't possible skew the balance of the game.

• it was decided it will be implemented before it was tested.

But sunken cost fallacy propably forces this to game also

There is one usecase for this system but they are not tested together, so just waste of time

[wary stratus]

No incremental development and testing. Everything at once. Got it.

[bronze raptor]

We are not testing the fealty in a environment it would be useful, we will be back to square one if the kingdom cap ever is introduced

Faulty system in current state of the game has potential to bring issues without solving any or bringin anything of value to players.

[wary stratus]

You remember how they implemented Menhir and then never changed it again?
I don't.
Remember how they never changed it again after the first test? I don't.

They did adjust it with time and there are plans to continue to adjust it, especially in light of what we are seeing on some gameworlds.

This is a conversation, Kicke. You can view as narrowly as possible and refuse to try and think of this in other conditions - even ones that have been announced - that's fine.
I have documented your thoughts.

[bronze raptor]

Well that change was fast. And they are rock solid that it will not go away.

[wary stratus]

I have documented your thoughts. If you have anything new to add to the conversation regarding fealty, please do so. If you have thoughts regarding other features, please add it to a relevant feedback loop or create a new one.

[finite vale]

And menhir is still broken after several adjustments KEKW

[wary stratus]

Please refer to the conversations here that discuss the desire to adjust menhir in the future. If you have additional thoughts regarding Menhir please add them to the relevant feedback loop or create one.

[hard escarp]

i think my main concern is that BBash will start with fealty & we don't yet have all the answers
like how will the endgame play out with these attack/defence boosts?

[bronze raptor]

Is there definitive answer if prestige bonuses will stay?

[timid fjord]

Small offtopic question:
What about, bear with me, we implement a map that have all 7 WW areas looking the same. Same 15c same 9c same bonuses and same nature spots. Then before the server start leaders of known kingdoms choose where to settle and all the players that join that kingdom settle same area. They get their spots around the WW and don't have to use Menhir.
Meanwhile random people that just join the server to play get either divided between the area and get put in the middle and can contact people to have 1 menhir to go to a kingdoms area.
This way fealty won't be needed and menhir will only be useful for a couple of players instead of everyone. Also remove the non attack timer from the menhir so if you get a spy in to the kingdom you can attack him asap and get him removed from the area.

I personally think there is a lot other stuff TK team and developers can be working on before they should implement a system to have members staying in kingdoms when I don't think I have remembered anyone leaving the kingdom to join another kingdom after the first 2 weeks ever.
Maybe... Look at the game and see if the parts you choose to implement actually need to be implemented before you work a lot of hours in to a system that didn't need to be added anyway?

Keep in mind I won't say I am a veteran player of the game and I don't play it a lot but I can read the discord like everyone else and according to discord there is a lot of other things people ask for before this Fealty system that I can see.

On another note I am really sorry for @wary stratus because his job actually sucks since he is the go between players and TK and can't do anything except provide info that might or might not be read by anyone.

[lilac spade]

I think that with regards to the kingdom cap and the fealty system, the best way to discourage metas and kingdoms grouping up on 1 other kingdom would be to significantly increase the off and def bonus from fealty, as well as make the def bonus only work for troops defending villages in the same kingdom. I think a 20% bonus to attack and defense would be necessary to see the wanted effect, but it could be set even higher. I think we are close to something very nice here 🙂

[cloud pier]

❗Fealty system survey❗

We want to learn more about you and your preferences so that we can make Travian Kingdoms a better game for all our players.

Take now the player survey about our Fealty system, which is available on the Test game world and receive 20 Gold!
The survey can be filled out until Friday, 10th May.

You can fill it out here: https://survey.alchemer.com/s3/7825164/Travian-Kingdoms-Survey

Everyone who completes the survey will receive **20 Gold ** a few days after the survey finishes.

Thank you for your time and for helping us to improve Travian Kingdoms!
Your Travian Kingdoms Team

[bronze raptor]

so now that the fealty got forced down our throats we still have the 3 features that every1 were against. Prestige bonus and attack and defense bonus. Are these to stay?

[bronze raptor]

What bugs me is that everyone no matter what prestige said prestige extra bonus is stupid yet it was decided to keep in the game. Game director in love with that idea or whats the deal with it?

[dull fox]

Good morning. The attack and defense bonus, some say switch those around, some say make them give bigger bonuses, some say to lose them - so it's not everyone who is against these. We've followed Discord discussions and did the fealty survey. Based on survey, people like the system - some wish to keep it as it is, some want balancing changes (slightly overpowered in general)

The prestige bonus based on survey and discussions here got critiqued for fairness, so we'll take the time to go over all feedback and adjust things if necessary.

[finite vale]

Prestige extra bonus is great against cheaters who got account ban KEKW

[bronze raptor]

Do we have any of those unicorns

[bronze raptor]

Tldr; this is how its going to be, suck it up

Why it was implemented on live world when you are still going thru the feedback

[sterile umbra]

Just give some cosmetic unlocked by prestige or something xd not actual bonus, with the amount of noobs who have high prestige its basically like in school getting extra points just cus its your 3. Time in 5. Grade

[bronze raptor]

Its rhetoric question btw, we all know that if something is implemented on test world it will be on next live server no matter the feedback

[sterile umbra]

https://tenor.com/view/he-aintlyin-preach-truth-facts-tho-gif-15825744

[bleak thorn]

How long does it take to go from 0 to 20 fealty level?

[potent ridge]

in test it took before t3 if i remember correctly

[next jackal]

Exactly. I had the 20% fealty bonus turned on throughout the entire round of the game, and I reached lvl 20 shortly before T3.
In my opinion this is too long. Players without purchasing the bonus reached lvl 20 fealty long after T3. Practically at the end of the server 😉
I think the time between T2 and T3 would be good without bonuses. To reach max lvl fealty in the middle of the server. When there is the most action on the server and the defense/attack bonus will be needed.

[potent ridge]

the longer it takes the better, makes it more advisable to get into main kingdom quicker

[next jackal]

On most servers, when you play in an organized TEAM, you are in the main kingdom after UNION at the latest. And most often it is 3-5 days on the x3 server.

[sour bone]

I think the system is a bit "boring" tbh
Whatever system that is "you gain rewards by existing" is just.... there. Not gonna impact gameplay and not gonna make player feel the "progression". It's just a bar that fills

I think a bit more focus on acquiring the bonus would matter more. Something that make the player more engaged with the gameplay
Maybe instead of acquiring points via just "existing", it can be
1- Points for selling stolen goods or stealing treasures (not sure about the latter tho)
2- Points for gaining offensive/defensive points
3- Points for doing daily quests
And these are the most basic ways that doesn't require the TG to spend development time. Just incrementing an additional meter whenever player's meter on one of those things goes up! (I don't want to fantasize about designing a whole progression system here, as the best steps are the smallest constructive steps)

In games, you don't level up by existing (other than stupid idle games), you level up by "playing the game"
I personally think how you acquire fealty levels is more important than the rewards itself. A good system needs a good progression

[bronze raptor]

So now that this mechanic loved by players is here for stay is it also so that the prestige bonuses are here to stay?

[bronze raptor]

Pump

[bronze raptor]

Pump

[tired edge]

https://tenor.com/view/dpgc-dead-pixels-nft-hbarnft-ghost-gif-26611430

[dull fox]

Heya, yes. The Fealty system is rolling out as it is to new worlds and works as it was designed. You are always welcome to share ideas for improvements, if there's a bonus X you'd change to bonus Y, or adjust the weight of the bonuses. We'll hear you out.

If you need background, the prestige bonus works as a small extra incentive for those players who are taking a longer break but are willing to come back. Now their accounts have a small boost and they can continue to grow their accounts. It should also make it more fun to keep developing your lobby account, earn achievements and prestige, to hit the highest levels.

[bronze raptor]

So no change on duals gaining prestige? Do you even consider any of the feedback you receive? Literally no one said anyhting good about prestige bonuses

[dull fox]

The topic of duals gaining achievements or prestige I'd say is another topic for feedback loop, one you could start and build on with others, how it could look like. It's not strictly related to Fealty System.

There's a mention about dual achievements in feedback loop: https://blog.kingdoms.com/feedback-loop-community-topics-1/

Would be nice if Duals or Sitters could earn achievements as well.

👑 Currently, achievements can only be reached with one account, and giving out the same achievements as the account owner would be unfair and abusable. If the Dual wishes to earn the same achievement, players need to swap roles and earn it a second time. That said, specific new achievements players can earn only as a sitter or dual is an option we are happy to dive into someday in the future.

Feedback is considered and you should know this based on past feedback loops, the new "roadmap" / forge blog page, and related to Fealty System we heard players out and made a change to the bonuses before rolling it out.

We do regular surveys that represent a broader opinion, so it's not accurate to say "no one sayd anything good" - most said good things.

[bronze raptor]

It is considered when its convenient and lines with gamedirectors vision it seems 🙂

[dull fox]

And... kingdom member cap, examples like this exist.

[bronze raptor]

I dont understand the will to force aspect of mechanic that recieved tons of negative comments and 0 positive ones

[dull fox]

That's true, game director & designer have their own take on the game and its future but that involves hearing out players here on Discord, and via surveys

[bronze raptor]

I wish they played their own game. Or atleast understood it

[dull fox]

Playing the game comes with the territory, you need to understand the "product" - and here the Discord community is of great value as we have highly experienced HC players in here - such as you. It offers many strong voices and opinions on the game and its future, even if it's not "all" voices.

Making everyone happy would turn this into Travian Hodgepodge, but I hope you'll see the efforts put into this game even if not all changes are what you personally agree with. I feel hopeful, maybe it'll catch on

[bronze raptor]

The thing isnt about what makes me happy, the prestige bonuses recieved ZERO POSITIVE feedback and TONS OF NEGATIVE feedback. And the argument about old players coming back is not valid. Unless they have the new top prestige which most wont have. They have advantage over completely new players yes (which on it self is freaking dumb and makes it even less inviting for new players) but they keep falling behind the ones that never stopped playing.

[wary stratus]

Hey Kicke, as Sami mentioned - there is feedback collected in a multitude of ways. Discord and this feedback loop being one of them.
The results of the survey expressed a different set of opinions than perhaps what you have expressed and seen here.

I work in public finance, which means I get to deal with people who are not very happy about either a rate change for their water bill or perhaps a change in their ad valoreum taxation.
One way of collecting feedback that we engage in is "difference measurement". Meaning - let's quantify what the difference of something is.
I don't currently have my troop tools built out for x1, x3 and x5 yet, but I have the starts to the current mayhemx2.
So - let's play out an example of the impact on Prestige Bonus for a single tribe, single troop.

If we have a level 20 barracks, the resulting prestige bonus (which I still don't have 7 days in - LVL 11, need 17 for it to start) would be 35 clubswingers a day extra. So, if GB and Barracks are going - 70 clubswingers a day. If we apply just that difference over 50 days it results in 178,108 clubswingers versus 176,327. A total difference of 1,781.

Do you think that the prestige bonus at the current rate is too intrusive for new players to be able to stay competitive and enjoy the game?

[bronze raptor]

Its difference but not a big one. The cropconsumption is prolly the most impactful in lategame. But if it is not deemed meaningful why have it in the firstplace?

[wary stratus]

I didn't say it wasn't meaningful. I asked if it was too much of a benefit to stay competitive in the game.
Let me go figure up crop consumption really fast.

Got distracted, but I'm back.
It would be like 625 extra crop per hour on all level 18s in a 15c on an x1.

[bronze raptor]

I think the biggest impact is psychological, ”Why I’m handicapped” etc. And feels especially bad for players who have mostly played with dual as they get ”punished” for it.

Was it production bonus instead of decrease of consumption? If so my bad

[wary stratus]

No, no you right. Thanks for pointing that out.
Let me go grab @hard escarp defense numbers from Testx3 a few gameworlds back. That would be the most "beneficial" case use for defense that I have readily available.

[bronze raptor]

+1M is doable

[wary stratus]

So, 40k reduction across the account at the end of a gameworld for just your average player. An extra 10,000 per hour for someone with LVL 20 prestige.

[bronze raptor]

It is 10k/h ”free” merchant capacity

[wary stratus]

Compared to the 40k/h "free" that didn't exist before fealty that is available to every player.

[bronze raptor]

When you closing 1M crop consumption everything that you can get makes a difference

However it is also subjective who feels what being impactful

And if majority feels bad about it it doesnt matter how insignificant the bonus is

[wary stratus]

Again, we've had survey's.
I've also tried to do some education here today.

[bronze raptor]

I can only base my view on what is visible for me. I think that is the only thing this discord has ever agreed on unanimously

[wary stratus]

Every single person who commented in here had an issue on the prestige bonus?

[bronze raptor]

Every1 who commented on the prestige bonus had issue with it

[wary stratus]

So - have you thought that people who didn't mention it at all didn't have an issue with it then?

[bronze raptor]

Its possibility, tho highly unlikely

[wary stratus]

You can infer something entirely different as is your initiative.
However, let's go back to a WD real world example again.

When I'm working with a community on rate adjustments - we do open comments at board meetings, as well as surveys.
The people who show up to open comment often time have different opinions than those who answer the survey.
So, please know that all of your comments were taken into account, but also balanced with feedback that came through the survey.

I hope that some examples of impact have helped. I think if you asked players - "Do you want to be able to make an extra 5,000 clubs a round" or "Do you think that a player being able to make an extra 5,000 clubs a round over you (but keep in mind you are able to make 500,000 - they are just able to make 505,000).
I think by in large they would say "yeah, I want an extra 5,000 a round" and would probably say that the difference between 500,000 and 505,000 is not going to be a substantial impact on them, or their ability to play.

[jovial plover]

Any chance we get transparency in surveys/feedback?

"Fealty is something we wanted to implement for a while, we asked you and:
79% said they were happy with the way we have planned fealty
11% said they were not happy
10% weren't sure".

Because I feel like Kické in most occasions when (my view of) a bad decision is being made. I mean, all I see is red, all I smell is red, everyone is talking about red, most requested color is red, why are you saying we wanted blue?

[wary stratus]

I have passed along that question.

[wary stratus]

Okay, quantify the comment.

Give me some specifics of where you have seen this happen.

And in what regards.

If it's to the prestige bonus, same questions that I asked Kicke above along with examples apply to you.

[jovial plover]

Here, just now. Where I've read the most about the fealty system and people's voicing their opinions on the matter.

So I guess I'll answer the questions.

[jovial plover]

Most of the feedback I read about it was not that happy with it. I'm not saying it was unanimous.

[jovial plover]

Who?

I read the questions before I spoke. They make sense. I also want answers for them, which is why I asked for transparency in feedback/surveys.

[wary stratus]

Awesome. So is the transparancy in feedback/survey's your only ask then? Or is there something that you are still concerned about outside of that in direct relation to the mechanic of Fealty, or any aspect within fealty?

[jovial plover]

Because I don't trust any green-named person here.

[jovial plover]

I guess.

[wary stratus]

Your initial comment indicated that you disagreed with the survey results, not just that you wanted to see them. So, I wanted to provide you space to add any additional comments that were not answered previously.

Let me ask in a much more direct way. Do you have concerns about fealty that have not been addressed, or do you just want the survey results?

[jovial plover]

I disagree with the prestige bonus. But I also do not have the energy right now to debate or look for the times someone said something about it that I agreed with. This has been a very discussed thread, so there's a lot that was said and I might be wrong, but - My perspective is that I asked for X, I remember people asked for X, I keep hearing about X and somehow, not only Y is delivered, I'm being told that Y is what we, as a collective, wanted.

Can't disagree with something I haven't seen or read about.

So, I guess, in a much more direct way. For now, I do not have concerns about fealty that have not been addressed, I just want the numbers.

[wary stratus]

When you are ready to provide specific and tangible concerns that have not been addressed - you let me know. I'm not here to debate. I'm here to ask you questions based on the feature to refine your concern more exactly. "I don't like it" is a fine comment, but I want to quantitatively understand where the concern is instead of leaving it at surface value.

[wary stratus]

Perfect. I've asked. I can't promise that they will be provided, or if they are what format they are in. But I have passed along this request.

[charred fossil]

I will add my 2 cents, first of all, any criticism is not meant to you @wary stratus or anyone with green name here.

1. Regarding surveys and their results - i think that best would be some "Survey result" blog post after every survey - i will add example from real life 😉 - i work in IT company - we had many surveys in past years and everytime there was presentation/evaluation of that survey - in person and also sent to mail after that - so the results of the survey are clear to everybody. TK is not doing that and i think that is a mistake.
2. i find myself often agreeing with kicke or other people here on discord regarding various topics - and the most i do is that i give that post a like - i don't want to voice the same opinions somebody else is writing - seems redundant to me .
3. regarding prestige bonuses and new players - i agree with what was said before - its mostly psychological - new players don't know how to play the game so that extra 1% won't help them - but its really discouraging if you see that someone else has bonuses because he plays longer - especially when you find out how much time it takes to build prestige (assuming u don't want to play every server available )- and they don't understand the game enough to make the math that you guys did above
4. claim "prestige bonus is minor" is false in my opinion -people are minmaxing and putting lot of money for much smaller advantages to create the best account

5. incentive to bring old players back - idk reasons why people stopped playing TK - but putting some 1% bonus to attack power won't bring them back - because it does not solve issues this game has that actually affect game experience and game enjoyment - multis, cheating, meta kingdoms, app is unusable and so on.
6. prestige and duals - no brainer -another issue that needs to be fixed - i will be more personal - i am glad that i am playing in a kingdoms where most royal accounts are dual/trio account - and these people are doing their best to make the game more fun for their kingdom members - and they are not even given those imaginary points that gives them shiny badge - with added prestige bonus - they are basically punished for playing dual acc and not solo. And these are the people that makes the game fun, that make me want to play another round with them - not because i want 1% on anything - but because they make the game fun. Also they are the ones who helps the community to grow - joining "bad" kingdom and well functioning kingdom is day and night difference.

So to sum it up - i think prestige bonus is not enough incentive to bring old players back and is another obstacle for newer players. On the top of that - problem with duals not receiving prestinge is even more pressing and unfair.

[sterile umbra]

100% agree, i have the 2. best prestige medal, played some as dual, but wouldnt have the best one even if i got prestige for those.
BUT i am perfectionist, if there would be a notice to we get more bonus by higher prestige i would have grinded it out, just like with hats, i dont care about them, but if they would give bonus i would get them all. It feels bad to i get less bonus cus i dont have something, what was advertised before as a cosmetic thing. It was never important (aka why duals dont get it), so we never grinded it out, just as it came and went away. Its a system whats reward players who just sims a bunch of server, dont spent gold, just join the winning meta...
because its not worth in prestige sense to tryhard a few times, or stick up with your small team to the big bad... so its promote the thing, what we want to solve with the player limit! the "everybody join the biggest team, so we all get the prestige bonus with 0 imput"...

also idk, i would spend several hundred of gold without much thinking for 1% bonus, so i wouldnt call it meaningless

like look at training helmet, 27% maximum bonus

to 1 village, 1 training building

[charred fossil]

exactly

[sterile umbra]

i did a run when i had 25 village run barrack-stable

that was 50 training place

if i could get 1% more account training, that worth almost 2 tier 3 helmet

😅

and i pay a bit of cash for a 22% helmet + 5 cristal already, for dubble reward i would pay much more

and those things stack together, and players can miss out the best ones especially, like yes i only miss the last one, but i was a minority 😄 )

others could miss out training times too , and fight bonus

too

i can imagine some player likeing it, cus some player plays the dead servers too, so they just like to do stuff, without being competitive or care about the balance

but imo

even if the majority dont have problem with it, and kinda like it thats not enough

they actually need to want it, to counter the (not that small) minority who hate it

like fealty make those players who often plays dual feel like their time isnt valued, so less likely to invest that heavy in amazing accounts together, spending a lot of money, does those silent majority intend to pay more and play more cus of this change?

or they just okay with getting a buff?

like if you make teutons harder to play, do the other tribes (the big majority) would want to play and pay more? or you just make a good player minority feels punished?

and the thing to they are not big bonuses are sorry, but the tipical dumb argument what i keep hearing in media, if something is not a big deal to do, why are you doing it? its big enough deal to be made

[charred fossil]

i agree with this - i haven't seen any really positive feedback to prestige bonus (if there is, i would like to read it) - like someone really wanting it, but lot of negative - and yes, it is still a minority - and argument that most players are like "meh, i dont care, its just 1 percent bonus" is not an argument

[sterile umbra]

i know to its a minority who min max everything, but in activity and spend money i am not sure if they are 😄

but yeah, if someone like it go and tell us why, lets hear other side too

like imagine a kinda new player who want to minmax, see to he train 1% more expensive, 1% slower, also heal like that, get 1% less power, and eat 1% more

also those things adding together, 1% more eating and 1% more expensive training mean 1% less time what you can train your hammer/your deff. , but its also 1% weaker, and 1% slower to train anyway

so 99% cost , 99% training time, 101% power , 3,02% power difference in the end

i know the early lvl-s you by pass fast, but still, why have a system what needs to be kept secret from new players? 😄

[wary stratus]

I'm here to take criticism. That is a form of feedback.

I hope my messages were not construed to say "1% is meaningless". I was trying to express that it's not that large of a barrier comparatively. There difference between 200,000 and 202,000 is not something that would personally make me go "don't like that" - but that's me.
I think I hit 3 gold stars my very first gameworld and then Bronze bars my next gameworld (Silver bars like... 3 years later). So - I would agree that the upper prestige levels are incredibly difficult to reach.

I think Fealty would operate just fine without prestige bonuses. BUT - as is mentioned somewhere in here - the point of the prestige bonus and how it was incepted was as an additional punishment when you cheat (This is not a conversation about punishments more broadly. It's not about whether you think lobby bans happen or don't happen, they do. It's not about when you think someone should/shouldn't be banned. There are other loops for that).

The prestige bonus isn't just about rewarding old players, it's providing a deterrent to just going off and creating a 'clean' account. There is a cost associated with getting a lobby ban outside of just losing your achievements, gold, cosmetics, etc.
I just mention that as I want to make sure that the full intent behind the prestige bonus is being considered. It's meant to be more than just a small benefit for experienced players.

With that being said, there certainly should not be a feature that new players are going to be, or feel, equally as punished by not having. I think there is a difference between "working towards" and "taking away", but it's fine line. An honest player can work towards and achieve a Fealty Bonus and get most in relatively short order.

An unfortunate piece of this is that no one here is a new player. It's hard to gauge their motivations (or at least for me). I certainly can't do that and won't claim to. But I know that for me, when I see something that is available to the "top tiers" - I'm motivated towards, not from.
I do appreciate everyone providing additional input here on how you think this would be perceived by new players. I've jotted down my first series of notes, but I'll come back to this with somewhat fresher eyes later in the week.

[wary stratus]

Before I go - can you elaborate more on this? I understand the post crystal clear above it.
Good addition. I was just thinking of needing to measure the cumulative benefits, because benefit isn't constrained to just "number of troops", but it's also multiplied by power of troops (cost in your calculation I think may have been overly weighted - as cost doesn't contribute to total production - or at least not in a way that is generally calculable).

[wary stratus]

Addendum to my post about earning prestige, I did have the benefit of playing TL before hand, so it’s not like I was coming in blind. Need to recognize that some players will not be able to earn as fast.

[bronze raptor]

I dont buy it getting bronze diamond in 2 gameworlds

[wary stratus]

Okay

[sterile umbra]

Cost is a limiting factor, armies can start build earlier. And I mean this Line what you answered as a different pov, when ín lol I was locked out of features because I didn't had the max lvl, i felt awful, because those are a different type of game experience, tk offers a New chance every server, and locking bonus/feature behind skill lvl makes it annoying. Tho idk if they feel more motivated or lose motivation cus of it, so I dont claim to talk for New players, I personally hate it, as an experienced player 😅and when I think of New players, I think of the past me

[wary stratus]

League of Legends? Took me a minute. You all are starting with your coffee and I'm winding down for the night haha.

Cost reduction kicks in before triple silver stars, but I get your point. That "clean slate aspect" of starting a gameworld over has for sure been an appeal that I've liked in the past.
I wasn't trying to claim you or anyone could speak for new players, but rather the exact opposite. I think we all have different motivations and that's how we approach it this feature. We say "how would this have affected me" - so thank you for sharing your perspective. Because it is different than mine.

[wary stratus]

Good afternoon (or whatever it is in your part of the world).

I did get the survey results. I hope that this grouping and future surveys can be included not only in the Feedback loop where we the most passionate are, but also on the blog.

Thank you all for your thoughts regarding how to be more transparent and what you would like to see.

I apologize that these are not very detailed numbers:

• Over 50% said that they wanted to bring Fealty to all gameworlds as is.
• Over 30% said bring it with some changes.
• The remaining did not think that Fealty should be implemented.

As to say, over 80% wanted to see Fealty stay in some shape or form.

I'll break out comments into generalized sections: "What players liked" and "Things that can be improved".

What players liked:

• Game Advancement and Acceleration
• Bonus Rewards and Incentives
• Loyalty and Stability to/of Kingdoms
• Engagement and Interaction

Things that can be improved:

• Clarity and Understanding of the System (Making Fealty better understood if there are questions about impacts, player education, etc.)
• Adjustment and Balance of Bonuses (i.e. thoughts about specific bonuses and replacements)
• Resetting the Penalty for Changing Kingdoms (some thought it was too punitive, some others wanted harsher penalties for Kingdom changes)
• Fairness (Prestige) and Accessibility (this is where a lot of the feedback that you all have been sharing recently is being added to).