Is there any reason a warjack with powerful attack would not be able to spend focus when made to attack via Jackhammer? Relevant rules are attached.
#Powerful Attack and Jackhammer
spark crane
lusty shore
Is there any reason a warjack with powerful attack would not be able to spend fo...
Because Powerful Attack doesn't say you can spend focus outside of its activation.
If a rule that grants an out of activation attack allows you to spend focus on it, it'll be explicit.
hoary blaze
So the rule restricting focus use doesn't specify an attack. It's just a general statement. That said, there are rules that just have a condition to allow for the use of focus usage out of activation like generator on the specter.
The wording not specifying anything about out of activation.
spark crane
If a rule that grants an out of activation attack allows you to spend focus on i...
I disagree. Abilities tend to specify activation only.
lusty shore
In this case, the basic rule is "You can't spend focus outside of your activation", so that's what you need an exception to
hoary blaze
Unless there's some restriction on spending for offensive related abilities, but I'm not sure there is
lusty shore
It's the same general templating that you see in things like MTG
Where "If a thing would only work if it carries an exception, it has it"
There's a reason I was specific in my initial statement
hoary blaze
I understand the reasoning, but wouldn't that mean the specter would be unable to use its generator out of activation since it's a focus spend?
lusty shore
Here's an example of a thing granting out-of-activation attacks with the ability to spend fury.
spark crane
I understand the reasoning, but wouldn't that mean the specter would be unable t...
Exactly
fringe knot
I understand the reasoning, but wouldn't that mean the specter would be unable t...
No cause it outlines that it can spend focus in that instance
spark crane
The instance in powerful attack is when they make an attack
hoary blaze
No cause it outlines that it can spend focus in that instance
Powerful attack has the same outline though? If attack is made then can spend focus to powerful attack.
spark crane
Calaban's feat doesn't specify out of activation either
lusty shore
It, uh, gives you explicit permission to boost them
hoary blaze
Like powerful attack's conditional is an attack being made similar to how the Specter's conditional is being hit and taking damage for focus to be used.
lusty shore
Which you need because they're out of activation
hoary blaze
My reading of powerful attack is that it gives explicit use of the boost as well.
Attack -> spend focus to get double boosts
It's not the same as a normal boost, which I agree would be stopped.
proven berry
spark crane
Thx Septic
To my credit, Travis indicated he would change them and the rules remain the same
sleek blade
Your interpretation wasn't wrong
hoary blaze
Ah, thanks for the link
spark crane
Cheers folks
lusty stone
Sadly, it's another one of those rules where you just need to have the ruling handy to point out when challenged. Since it works the opposite way from how the words in the book/cards read, and the actual rules haven't been updated or changed in the 6 months since it was previously asked.
Even then, it's not Powerful attack that's the issue, you can't use it. it's other abilities like Arcane Vortex that are nullified by this, except they aren't, by decree. So, you're not wrong to question it, because it doesn't make sense as written, it only makes sense by overriding that with a ruling on the internet.
honest rain
Wasn't there something in the rulebook saying you can't spend focus out of activation or something?
lusty stone
Yes, that's exactly the issue. You can't spend focus out of activation, ever, period, unless specifically told otherwise.
But abilities like Arcane Vortex and Generator do not specifically state you can spend, so RAW they do nothing at all. This has been ruled to not be the case, but only because of the ruling contradicting the general rule.
When this came up 6 months ago the resolution was to just do it as the ruling states until they can adjust the actual rules, which they have not done yet and it's come back around to confusing a new person. The circle of life continues...
honest rain
honest rain
Yes, that's exactly the issue. You can't spend focus out of activation, ever, pe...
Sooo, we know we can't do it. But we are allowed to do it until it's changed?
lusty stone
No, you must abide by the Infernal ruling if you are playing by the rules.
honest rain
Oh I read that backwards
Yeah I see what your saying. I'll keep playing it as Intended.
lusty stone
The ruling that you need to keep handy, which contradicts the RAW, is about Arcane Vortex and Generator, not about Powerful attack.
honest rain
I'm aware. It came up a lot with Hades and his Wraith Shot
lusty stone
That was the source of the original question and ruling I do believe
honest rain
My understanding as well.
lusty stone
Though in his case he can spend because he's spending a Soul, not boosting with a focus
honest rain
Correct you are
lusty stone
Just one of those wacky warmachine situations where sometimes things work the opposite way and you don't know unless you know (and frequent the rules forums to know there even is a ruling)
Hopefully when they get the Rulings section fully operational in the app this will be much easier to convey at the table
honest rain
Wish we had archival access to the old forums and wiki. But yeah, no worries.