#Timing of slammed models and special ability rule Anchor

40 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

crisp ferry
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Following situation:
Dire Wolf Warjack gets slammed. The Dire Wolf is slammed far enough to completely pass a smaller base model and is not B2B with the smaller base model after the full slam distance.

Is the smaller base model KD? Would it KD in the moment (I know that this is not a proper timing reference) it is B2B with the slammed Dire Wolf, but cant be KD because of Anchor? Or is the slam move completed and after the move the smaller base model is KD and not B2B with the Dire Wolf?

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flint garnet
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complete slam move, then models contacted are kd and damaged

swift siren
clever vector
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Because you don't knock down models that are moved through until after the movement is complete, at which point it's not B2B with the Dire Wolf

swift siren
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That's messy, though, isn't it?

clever vector
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That's how the rule works

swift siren
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Doesn't that create a nested timing issue? I mean, we can handwave whatever, but that feels off.

clever vector
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I don't see how. You resolve the slam movement, then resolve any effects of the slam such as collateral damage.

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I'm not trying to be dismissive, I'm just not seeing where there's an issue

swift siren
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I think it's more a me thing, I hadn't really thought of slams as a sort of beam

clever vector
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I'm also not an authority of any kind

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but that is how slams have been ruled to work in the past

swift siren
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I'm stuck on the idea of contact - I don't understand how you can not be base to base with the model, which is a prerequisite of taking slam damage. Maybe the thinking is overlap is not base-to-base?

Again, I'm probably just being dense, thanks for taking the time!

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If you don't get slammed through the model, or end the move in B2B because of displacement, would tha change the outcome?

clever vector
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I believe so, yes

clever vector
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A slammed model moves through models with smaller bases than its own.
Then later
If a slammed model contacts a model with an equal or smaller base or moves through a model with a smaller base...
So as far as the rules are concerned the slammed model never contacts the smaller based models. It moves through them, and moving through those models knocks them down.

swift siren
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The contacted model becomes knocked down, though, right?

clever vector
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it doesn't contact models with a smaller base though

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because of the last sentence of the first paragraph

swift siren
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That's a good point, I guess I was reading the last paragraph to say that moved through / contacted are descriptors that are joined in the contacted model portion.

radiant iron
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Moving through a model doesn't mean you don't contact it, though - e.g. models with Flight. It just means you don't stop upon contacting it.

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A close reading shows that while collateral damage is resolved simultaneously with the slam damage itself (so well after models have been contacted) there's not anything that explicitly tells you to "delay" the knockdown of contacted models.

clever vector
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I haven't been able to find the previous ruling, so we may just need a new ruling

uneven umbra
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I believe thr previous ruling was a similar situation with rassyk.

rapid flame
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What's the question

crisp ferry
flint garnet
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The question is "is the knockdown applied upon contacting/moving through a smaller model (in which case Anchor prevents it) or at the same time as collateral damage, after the movement?"

rapid flame
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Once you finish moving the model check what models it contacted during its movement

In the example with the anchor model where it's final position has been determined those models in base to base who can benefit from anchor will

swift siren
flint garnet
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Bulldog's first words:

Once you finish moving

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Though I admit the use of the present tense here contradicts the "move first, apply all knock-downs after":

If a slammed model contacts (...) or moves through a model (...), the contacted model becomes knocked down

swift siren
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I'm still stuck on the contact, which admittedly might be different then base to base?

flint garnet
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Contact is "become B2B or already B2B but would move towards but can't move through"

unreal wave
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you do not pause the movement to apply or not apply knockdown

swift siren
# unreal wave you do not pause the movement to apply or not apply knockdown

I promise I'm not trying to be obtuse - the knockdown is caused by contact, contact also seems to be what makes you knockdown immune. I get the idea of finishing the move, then applying damage along the path, im just not sure why the slam, which is contingent on being contacted, wouldn't in that same instance apply all contacted abilities.

Last I'll say on it - i'm sure it'll feel more logical on a day where I'm not so activated - I really appreciate everyone trying to help me get it.

unreal wave
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it might help to think of it triggering when they contact and resolving when they are no longer in contact

flint garnet
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Or if you want cinematic version: the Dire Wolf rolls over extremely fast, bumping into a bunch of people, making them lose balance. Then the jack stops. Only the people who are still close enough (B2B) can hold onto the "anchor" to regain their balance, the rest fall down.

rocky mountain
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I think the way slams work is the result of a worry that trying to resolve all the side-effects (knock-down, collateral damage, etc.) while the slammed model is moving, would result in potentially bad game state. That is, people would forget how far they'd moved the model, or the path of the slam might start to curve, or they'd argue about if the model was in range of a rule, things like that. So slams have been abstracted and simplified.

You determine where the slammed model is going to end up, deal with least-disturbance if you need to, and move the model to the new position. All rules that care about the model's position on the table are only applied based on the new position, and we then determine what the side-effects of the slam were.

And as for why it works like this, it's ultimately fiat. Loren et al. and the Infernals have ruled this is how it works, so this is how it works.