Concealment and channeled spells (arc node, eyeless sight)

[unreal mason]

Can't believe I'm asking this again, but I was just sent these two screenshots:
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/797781568709197834/1329392961292599339/FB_IMG_1737022369052.jpg?ex=678a2d2c&is=6788dbac&hm=de084615653b7465b5b05da2616e43d057154aa180e37232ca8cda969afe6d36&=&format=webp&width=969&height=630
and
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/797781568709197834/1329393367754473545/image0.jpg?ex=678a2d8d&is=6788dc0d&hm=bb866bb66c4c0ab607ff68d9985250e5fb841249911be7d2445e3f04de8157dc&=&format=webp&width=839&height=630

The way I read it, the part about concealment in the first one refers to "check whether your line of sight crossing an obstacle (hedge for concealment, wall for cover) or obstruction granting your target a DEF bonus, not "the arc node needs eyeless sight to ignore concealment".

Can someone please confirm that eyeless sight still needs to be on the spellcaster to ignore Concealment (same as ignoring Stealth) because it is the one making the attack?

(oh, the pics don't show in the text... how do people do that?)

[supple warren]

your castes needs to have Eyeless to Ignore Concealment and Stealth. Your arcnode / channeler can help you avoid it by positioning so that it gets a clear "tunnel" to the target so Cover / Concealment is not even gained by the target.

[unreal mason]

That's what I've been saying

the above comment from @real gull suggests the opposite though

[supple warren]

I think he mixed up LOS blocking cloud with "concealment" in that sentence

[real gull]

No. I didn't.

I will recheck.

[unreal mason]

concealment can be a "modifier that depends on line of sight" for things like hedges, aka "conceal-ment granting obstacles" where concealment depends on whether or not your LoS crosses the obstacle (same as cover), so the way I read it is "the target getting concealment depends on the point of origin (arc node)'s position" but I don't see any reason why Eyeless Sight would have to be on it and not the spellcaster/attacking model.
For reference:

Eyeless Sight - This model ignores cloud effects when determining line of sight. This model ignores concealment and Stealth.
So I don't see a model with Eyeless Sight ever not ignoring Stealth or Concealment (it's literally the same sentence so the ruling has to be one and the same) regardless of what the point of origin is.

[pine rapids]

If I understand correctly, it's for situation where Warcaster is casting through an Arc Node, and Warcaster has Eyeless Sight.

Yet by casting through an arc node - he gets warjack's vision as targeting information rather than his own. So if warjack lacks this ability, then caster won't get to ignore Stealth even if he himself could...

Kind of real-life analogy: imagine You have an infrared vision. Looking at someone in darkness, You would see that person's heat.
But looking at a monitor with camera view of that person, this ability would give You nothing because monitor does not show heat (and camera does not record it in the first place).

that's my understanding how it works at least 🙂

[proven echo]

That's not how it works.

[pine rapids]

..so my understanding is wrong... re-reading the rules will occur soon.

[unreal mason]

Stealth ≠ line of sight (what you refer to as "vision")

• the line of sight is drawn from the channeling model, using its rules (i.e. if the Arc Node has Eyeless Sight it can draw LoS through clouds)
• the attack is made by the Spellcaster, using its rules (i.e. if the Spellcaster has rules ignoring Stealth or any DEF modifiers, these rules apply)
• attack-modifying rules on the channeler are irrelevant (i.e. Eyeless Sight Arc Node doesn't let the attack ignore Stealth or Concealment)

[pine rapids]

Thank You!

[unreal mason]

You're welcome

[winter holly]

So do you auto miss if the channeling model is within 5” but the caster is not?

[steep sky]

So stealth says point of origin. So if the node is within five it should also have a chance to hit

[unreal mason]

Exactly. Distance is mesured from the channeler / point of origin.