#Adaptive Trigger and Vibration passthrough bugged in DualSense Emulation

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

idle perch
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As the tittle says - no matter what I do, this two functions are completely broken over bluetooth.

  1. I have a game, "Call of the wild: the Angler", I connect controller native over USB and all works fine - I have haptic, I have adaptive triggers.
  2. Now I connect over bluetooth using DSX to translate input as wired - controller works but all haptic/adaptive triggers functionality is gone. Not even basic rumble

When I test bluetooth connectivity using https://ds.daidr.me it works fine (without DSX), I have both vibration and adaptive triggers, what makes me think the only explanation is bugged passthrough in DSX. I tried with Stable and Beta, in both cases the same.

Rumble over bluetooth works in X360 mode so it is possible to be done for sure. Just a bug to be fixed. Is there anything I can do to help fix the problem?

ancient swallow
# idle perch As the tittle says - no matter what I do, this two functions are completely brok...

The haptics/rumble thing is probably expected. Haptics passthrough is in closed beta still, and if a game supports haptics but doesn't have rumble fallback, there'll just be no vibrations

I think that game has some kind of difference for how it handles adaptive triggers. Paliverse has been looking into it. I'm not sure what the expected behavior is right now though. Double check that you're in Dualsense Emulation mode and that Adaptive Triggers passthrough is turned on in the Virtual Devices tab

idle perch
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Yep, I'm in Dualsense Emulation mode and the passthrough is on. As I said earlier, rumble works in X360 mode, just not in DualSense. I know it may be tricky to implement full haptic at this point, but at least basic rumble + adaptive triggers is necessary. Without it what was the point in paying for this app as it provides the same limited functionality as free DS4Windows?

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I'm not going to calling refund anyway, don't worry, just I'm a bit disappointed

vestal spade
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DSX can't fix games' implementations of Dualsense support

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If this game doesn't have Rumble support at all, DSX can't make it magically send Rumble data

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What you want to know is whether you're getting Rumble and/or Adaptive Triggers natively by being wired and disabling your Dualsense as an Audio device (both as a speaker and a microphone) in Windows Audio settings

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This will reproduce the virtual Dualsense without Audio (vDS Audioless)

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If you're not getting either, then it means the game doesn't support Rumble Fallback and doesn't send Adaptive Triggers data either because for some reason their checks and logic make it behave this way

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This unfortunate but real scenario can only be addressed with vDS Audio

ancient swallow
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Oh ya I forgot that was a possibility, that it doesn't send adaptive trigger data unless there's audio devices too

vestal spade
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Yeah 😭Blame game developpers, not DSX

ancient swallow
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One of the hard things about PC games is that they have very weird and inconsistent support for PlayStation controllers and their features so things can be kinda fiddly from game to game

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Pretty soon dualsense emulation mode will support audio devices and haptics passthrough, so if that's what it is then that should make it work

idle perch
vestal spade
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You can make sure there actually is malfunction by looking at the Live Data Feed in Virtual Controllers

main arrow
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Wish I could understand it.

vestal spade
ancient swallow
idle perch
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Asuming I have audio disabled, we can safe say it is good 'oll rumble, right? Not haptica data

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And what about triggers?

idle perch
ancient swallow
vestal spade
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The game doesn't support either if it doesn't see Audio channels for the DS

ancient swallow
# idle perch And what about triggers?

That idk for sure. I know pali was looking into this game. It could be like gastro suggested that for some reason the game only sends adaptive trigger data when it sees a dualsense with audio devices. Sometimes games do that even though adaptive triggers can work fine with or without the audio devices

vestal spade
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If it shows nothing to pass, no malfunction

idle perch
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OK the discussion goes kind wild. So help me understand one thing. Game is connected over cable, both rumble and triggers are fine, without any workaround. I don't change anything, do not deal with audio etc., it is still the same disabled, so don't affect the case. Now DSX emulates wired connection, got exactly the same data (at least if it emulates correctly), and do what with it?

vestal spade
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wdym by "it's still the same disabled" exactly ?

ancient swallow
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When you're plugged in with no DSX, the controller has audio devices. The game sends haptics data (not rumble probably) to those audio devices and you get haptics vibrations. The game sees the audio devices and also sends adaptive trigger data

With DSX, the game sees the controller as wired but it doesn't see the audio devices, so it sends neither haptics data nor adaptive trigger data. It doesn't have rumble fallback so it doesn't send rumble data either

vestal spade
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Cause if it is the actual same whether you have your Dualsense Audio device enabled or disabled, it means it's not Haptics but Rumble all the time, which vDS Audioless already supports and would get it passed through but you say the Live Data Feed shows no such Rumble or Adaptive Triggers data, so something is not making sense here

idle perch
# vestal spade wdym by "it's still the same disabled" exactly ?

Every tutorial for haptic on PC I find requires configuration DualSense as quad audio. In my case it is on default. If you wish I can disable it fully and let you know if I have rumble. But to me it still does not explain problems with addaptive triggers

vestal spade
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That's exactly what I invited you to test first

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Disable your DS in Windows Audio settings both as a speaker and as a Mic

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Then test natively

idle perch
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OK, and to do it optimal, how can I also test adaptive trigges if I will be in game anyway? Can I do something?

vestal spade
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(btw quad audio config shouldn't be needed anymore for most games implementing support properly)

vestal spade
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You'll have your answer about ATs in the process

idle perch
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ok brb

vestal spade
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Cause if my hypothesis is correct, then you won't be getting either

idle perch
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So I tested it with off, and I have both rumble and adaptive triggers. I messed with turning it on and off, and it seems it doesn't matter. Does it make sense? I can keep it disabled for further test as I don't really use DS speaker/headphones

image.png
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@vestal spade

vestal spade
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So it would mean it's never Haptics with this game but only Rumble

idle perch
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Maybe. I think I maybe feel small differencewhen jumping on sofr surfaces. I felt gently vibration with haptic, but now only on solid I think. Or it was just my imagination

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But minor difference anyway

vestal spade
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Better be sure though, assumptions don't help

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Facts do

idle perch
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I can accept it will be not perfect at this point. So kindly ignore haptic, focus on rumble and adaptive triggers ok?

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What to do now?

vestal spade
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But then vDS Audioless not receiving either Rumble Data nor Adaptive Triggers data (to check, go to Virtual controllers in DSX and Live Virtual Device Data Feed, enable it and look at the data) is totally abnormal

vestal spade
ancient swallow
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Hmm maybe it sends rumble data in an unusual way too. I remember paliverse looking into the triggers for this game

vestal spade
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It's either actually Haptics and Rumble Fallback or it's Rumble only

idle perch
vestal spade
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Again, it's important to be accurate to troubleshoot properly

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Just explained

idle perch
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That's weir. I turned on DSX in native mode over cable to get the logs for you. The very mement it connects, it kills all rumble. I have dual monitor setup so I see exactly the moment it turn green on the second screen, vibration are gone. I can repeare it inifinitely: disconnect usb, connect it again, do few jumps in game before DSX regains control over connection, and observer all feedbeck is blocked

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Is it enough proof DSX is actively blocking rumble/triggers?

vestal spade
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So to "get the logs" (not logs in this case, but checking Live Data Feed which you can't export like logs), it would need to be in Dualsense emulation mode (cause that live data feed is for checking what virtual controllers are fed)

ancient swallow
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Mm double check that Send Data to Device is toggled off in the Virtual Devices menu

vestal spade
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Now about native mode killing rumble, it's weird for sure but could be explained by the game using dInput

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And what Izzy said, but even with Send Data to Device enabled, it would then be glitchy, not suppressed (in principle)

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Still it's nothing about the problem described in OP which is about Dualsense emulation, not native mode

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Hence why I need to know whether the virtual Dualsense gets fed rumble and adaptive triggers data or not when performing those in game actions supposed to generate them

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Method should be to launch the game with the intended mode to be tested enabled and setup beforehand

idle perch
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It does not, motors and AT on 0 all the time. But it means nothing, virtual driver may just discard the data and we still know nothing

vestal spade
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It means everything

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It means the emulated controller isn't fed this data

idle perch
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or ignore the data

vestal spade
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So no malfunction, either incompatibility for unknown reasons or just no rumble/AT sent for audioless Dualsense

idle perch
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OK, but if your theori is correct may I ask you to explain one thing?

vestal spade
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So most likely an incompatibility for unknown reasons between the game and vDS

vestal spade
idle perch
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In first case I have rumble, in the second not. It is native so we can ignore virtual device and simplify case for a moment. So why giving DSX access to the device (without virtual device) breaks Rumble/AT?

image.png image.png
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It reverted order - I have rumble with toggle off

vestal spade
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Because DSX is allowed to send data to the device which in this case conflicts with the one sent by the game

idle perch
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It reverted order - I have rumble with toggle off

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Discord messed with my screenshots

vestal spade
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Yes I got that

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Same answer

idle perch
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OK so why it conflicts?

vestal spade
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Cause no two softwares can simultaneously control the Dualsense without glitches happening

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In this case, the glitch is suppressed rumble/Adaptive Triggers

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Strange

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But not entirely surprising

idle perch
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OK, so probably we may have the same scenario with virtual controller? DSX conflicts with signal, making it effectively 0 in log? Isn't it much simplier that your theory?

vestal spade
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(usually Rumble would be hitchy and triggers be toggling between two states very quickly)

vestal spade
idle perch
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I have it, and DSX does not report any issiue

vestal spade
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DSX wouldn't report issues

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HidHide is there to handle whether the physical controller is hidden for all programs but DSX

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So DSX can have exclusive control of the physical device

idle perch
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I see you can blame the whole world but not DSX itself, that's adorable 😅

vestal spade
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And I see you seem hellbent on trying to prove me wrong or DSX faulty

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If that's your actual intent, this discussion has no point in being conducted further

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I'm trying to help you and provided an hypothesis which is the only one consistent with both your findings and provided infos as well as my knowledge of prior cases and how the software combo is supposed to work

idle perch
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No, just I try to be rational. You proposed two separate theories to prove two connected cases. I applied Occam's razor to make it simplier - thus more likely

vestal spade
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Hypothesis being vDS might be incompatible for an unknown reason with that game

idle perch
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Native does not use vDS, so no

vestal spade
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You're mixing up two scenarios

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My hypothesis is about vDS not getting the data and the likely reason why

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DSX in native mode with Send Data to Device enabled is an expected problematic situation (manifesting in an unusual but not unheard of way - namely supressing them all instead of being glitchy)

idle perch
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Ok, let's fix one problem at time. So how can I make it work in native mode? If I do, we will next proceed with vDS

vestal spade
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You already found that out : disable Send Data to Device

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For vDS I'll need to see a screenshot of your HidHide tab in DSX when using vDS, a screenshot of your Virtual Controllers page to check the passthrough toggles positions, one of your Haptics | Rumble page in the Rumble section and go from there

idle perch
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Yeah, and unisnatll DSX xD because why to have it disabled

vestal spade
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Precisely to avoid such glitchy/suppressed behaviors in Native mode, because DSX can't overcome two or more softwares trying to control the same physical Dualsense

idle perch
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OK, and here is HidHide screenshoot, I hope it can be in Polish, the order is the same

image.png
vestal spade
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It's fine, thanks. Only need to see the toggles, the whitelisted apps list and the hidden devices list

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I assume one of those two DS is the one you're using when trying in game

idle perch
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Honestly I have no idea, didn't change anything here

vestal spade
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Well if you connect your controller using vDS, is the list the same or does another controller ID get added ?

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Either way, your physical controller once connected should be listed in there

idle perch
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It is the same with connected over bluetooth

vestal spade
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Ok so one down, two to go

idle perch
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Nice 😉 so what is the next step?

vestal spade
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the other two screenshots I asked for

idle perch
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I'm sorry?

vestal spade
idle perch
vestal spade
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Ok, so everything being set up as it should be there means there is some incompatibility between the game and the virtual Dualsense for some unkknown reason

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Otherwise, in the Virtual Controllers tab, the Live Data Feed would show Rumble data and Adaptive Trigger data matching the expected effects

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But as you said, it doesn't

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This game would need to be investigated by Pali to understand what - if anything - can be changed/adjusted to solve this

idle perch
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But so far I have the same behavior in all 3 games I tested, some of the supports only rumble, some also adaptive triggers, but no one over bluetooth

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OK, it supported over bluetooth but only in Xbox 360 mode

vestal spade
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Please list the other two games

idle perch
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Rocket League and The Forgotten City

vestal spade
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Ok, thanks. Personally, in Rocket League (Epic Games version), I don't even have Dualsense support natively

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I need to emulate Xbox to get anything working

idle perch
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In my case it works but without rumble. I think it does not have AT natively on PC

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DS4 mode the same, works but no rumble

vestal spade
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Yeah that's no incompatibility at all then, it's known not to have rumble for ps controllers

idle perch
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I was able to use sound to do fake rumble, but it was very inprecise so I gava up

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Is there any list of games that works with DSX and AT?

vestal spade
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As for The Forgotten City, it seems to not even support Dualsense or Dualshock4 either according to the steam page and pcgw

vestal spade
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I suppose Call of the Wild: the Angler is an exception though

idle perch
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But most of them currently have also native support over bluetooth after latest Sony update so what's the point of DSX?

vestal spade
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Sony updates (? Firmware ?) has nothing to do with whether games support the controller or not, it's entirely on game developers to implement it

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Now the point of DSX varies from user to user and from use case to another

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Emulating controllers supported by games is the main goal and if the question is why vDS when Native support is there, it's for being able to remap, tweak deadzones, add granular controls over what to pass through or not and with vDS Audio and BT Audio combined, being able to have wired only features available over Bluetooth

idle perch
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I mean most of games were supporting AT only over wired connection. After latest Sony API update some games works over bluetooth natively. I was expecting that DSX can works as proxy for those that stayed wired-only, like my Call of the Wild: the Angler. But it seems that it does not solve anything

vestal spade
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Don't know what you're referring to by Sony API

ancient swallow
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omg i thought we were talking about where winds meet lol i must've brought that idea over from a different post

vestal spade
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But no firmware or libscepad updates ever had impact on how a game Dualsense implementation behaved

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It's entirely on game devs to support features and implement them properly

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libscepad updates are mainly to address edge cases in how the controller might (mis)behave with some instructions and to provide developers newer features/finer tuned behaviors they still need to implement themselves

ancient swallow
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i will try it and see what happens with the closed beta

vestal spade
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If they don't, there is no retroactive stuff happening and usually, libscepad (if it's even used by game devs) is embedded in the game's own exe/asset files, it's rarely implemented as an updatable dll in install folder

idle perch
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But this brings us to the very beginning of the discussion - if a game works with AT/rumble over usb, and DSX creates fake usb connection, it is solely up to DSX to implement it properly, as game is agnostic in this case

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And so far we proved it fails, for whatever reason

vestal spade
vestal spade
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Which is very unfortunate and I'm actually sorry about

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But the vast majority of games do work (some with caveats inherent to how they perform their checks and implement DS support logic of their own) for most of our users

idle perch
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if it does not work for some, it means it does not isolate games correctly, and the issiue will be recurring with new games. Because as I said - game should be agnostic about driver. From the perspective of the game it is just usb, it sends data, and DSX handles it to bluetooth. If it does not reach controller something is bad in between. There is not much I can do, you may decide to live with that. But ultimately it is not good decision

vestal spade
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No, it's not that simple

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I told you some games will perform checks of the device they see

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The invariable checks are the connection type

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The variable checks (or facultative rather) are the presence or not of an Audio device attached to the controller (in the case of an USB connection), whether the controller has some internal flags enabled or not (with or without the games made for setting those flags accordingly), and potentially firmware version number and other firmware level data checks

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This introduces a lot of complexity which is not (and can not) be 100% covered by the emulation driver because some internal datas "we" (the DSX and VirtualPad respective developers really) might not be able to read/fetch or are yet to implement in the driver once discovered and understood

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If Izzy can find a different behavior by testing the game with the closed beta build and driver, then some light could be shed on why vDS Audioless doesn't work for you in this game

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Again, so far in most cases, vDS Audioless just works with the caveat of Rumble being had or not which is entirely dependent on whether the games have support for Rumble Fallback, and some rare cases of only getting input working but no feedback or the rarest of the rarest cases, nothing working at all

idle perch
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Considering that the topic on Steam support about no vibration have 4 pages and 53 posts it is hard to believe it is the only one very specyfic game and I just don't have luck

vestal spade
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I don't know that discussion and I doubt it involves DSX's virtual Dualsense

idle perch
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So you don't track reports on board of youre software on Steam Community?

vestal spade
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But if there is already an issue without DSX involved being talked about that much for that game, then my guess is DSX barely has any impact on it

vestal spade
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Which I bet it does have

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But we do monitor them

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And invite users to join here to troubleshoot effectively

ancient swallow
idle perch
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Anyway, any problem can be excused and explained instead of solved. I will not force you to do anything, as it is only a cheap software without any real warranty. It's up to you what direction you will take, and I'm ok with that. Thanks for the discussion

ancient swallow
vestal spade
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If you ever want to provide more feedback and help us help you solve it should any new findings be had on your side on ours, you're welcome to stick around and keep notifications on for your ticket

ancient swallow
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i got it installing now i will test it out soon

vestal spade
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In any case, I apologize for the inconvenience this incompatibility with this game is causing you, that is obviously something we don't want to happen but alas can't do much about until new discoveries are made about why

idle perch
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I appreciate. You spend a lot of time with me here. I didn't mean to be salty, I'm sorry if it sounded like that.

ancient swallow
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why is this the defaul character hahaha

image.png
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cool looking game

idle perch
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I think it must be random 😁

ancient swallow
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Double checkin stuff

ancient swallow
# idle perch I think it must be random 😁

okay so, testing it out now, i think the haptics passthrough feature will fix the vibration issue for this game.

something is kinda weird, because when i open the game with dualsense emulation with haptics passthrough turned on, there are no vibrations at all. but if i switch to a different emulation mode and then back to dualsense emulation, i start getting vibration. it feels like haptics rather than rumble

i think the adaptive triggers are working right too. i was gonna say they weren't but then i tried actually hooking a fish, and they work with a fish on the line

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it is possible that the adaptive triggers are working for me and not you because the build i have has something changed for adaptive trigger passthrough, maybe that accounts for the difference, but i'm not sure

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that change should be in the next update

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i'll try and see if i can get rumble now

vestal spade
ancient swallow
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o

vestal spade
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Good news nonetheless and thanks again for contributing your testing Izzy, much appreciated

ancient swallow
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if i can get rumble on this build i'll switch back to the public one and see if it's different on that

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okay i am getting rumble as well

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but same as before, i have to switch emulation modes back and forth

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@idle perch could you try and see if it's the same for you? the process is

  1. have DSX in Dualsense Emulation mode
  2. open the game and load in
  3. jump twice on the same patch of ground (for some reason sometimes the first jump doesn't have vibration)
  4. if there's no vibration, go to DSX and switch to Dualshock 4 Emulation, wait about 5 seconds, then switch back to Dualsense Emulation, and wait about 5 seconds
  5. go back to the game and jump twice again
vestal spade
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Sounds like it only works when hotplugged then, what if you only connect once the game is launched, as unorthodox as it sounds for once

ancient swallow
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ya i will try that

ancient swallow
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really weird

vestal spade
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Sure is a first

ancient swallow
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ya THONKERS

vestal spade
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Super weird indeed but nice find !

ancient swallow
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okay let me try the public build

vestal spade
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Should be the exact same for this pipeline

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Unless you also downgrade vPad

ancient swallow
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o

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true

vestal spade
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Which you shouldn't bother with cause update to everyone will happen soon

ancient swallow
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okay ya, same thing in the current public beta

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i have to switch to DS4 emulation and then back to dualsense emulation

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i tried again just not connecting my controller until the game was open and that didn't do it. i had to switch emulation modes

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the game doesn't seem to have DS4 support so nothing was working when in that mode, but after switching back to dualsense i got rumble

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lemme try the triggers

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okay ya the triggers work too

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anyway Dorregard when you are around next, try that process and see if it works for you

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hopefully it does

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if not, it should work pretty soon!

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idk why the emulation mode thing happens, maybe the devs will look into it

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pali is away for a couple days though so it might be a little later

idle perch
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How do you manage to regain input in game? When I switch to DS4 and Back it lost input permenantly untill I restart game

ancient swallow
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hmm

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for me it comes back after a few seconds

ancient swallow
idle perch
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Remove? There is only refresh option

ancient swallow
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okay wait i might have a confounding factor in my results, i am lookin at it

idle perch
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You can scroll down, I feel so dumb 😅

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Nope, the same. And I can regain connection after switching emulation mode only if connected over usb, on bluetooth it won't reconnect untill restating the game. Strange, because in Rocket League I was testing different emulation jumping between them and it was working

ancient swallow
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ya i think something is happening with this dumb steam emu thing for me. i will just buy the game and try

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i noticed that when reconnecting the prompts changed from playstation to xbox

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some did anyway

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i'll try again when it's done installin

idle perch
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I have it on Epic, so in my case Steam is off. I start Steam only to open DSX, after this it is fullu closed, not only minimized

ancient swallow
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it is weird if the steam emulation thing would make the adaptive triggers and haptics work, unless it's a steam input API game. but then it probably wouldn't be on the epic games store

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i dunno. i'll check it soon

ancient swallow
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it could end up being that the difference is from the different VirtualPad versions we have

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same thing wired

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darn

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for me switching to DS4 emulation and then back to dualsense emulation just works, though it takes a few seconds

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so if it's not working for you it might be something that's changed in the virtualpad version i have

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which will be available publicly pretty soon i think

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one bit of good news though: with the steam version and haptics passthrough, i don't have to do the emulation mode switching

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i'm not sure why that would happen in the other version and not this one, but i suppose that's good

idle perch
ancient swallow
idle perch
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I just come to say that after latest stable update Adaptive Triggers and Vibration works with the trick you described @ancient swallow , thanks for help! I don't know why the games need this switch between DS4 and DS to get it, but anyway it works, even if with small workaround 🙂