#Option to explicitly see the formulae to calculate bonuses

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

strange aurora
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Just to make it easier to keep track when things stack additively or multiplicatively. +10% and +10% give +20% for the same source and +21% for different sources, but it's not always clear when two things are "the same". Leveling up your mastery of a spell gives you a bonus that stacks additively with leveling up other spells. And, sure, of course it does, because of the intermediary, but I still want that explicitly laid out somewhere. Does two different sources of resource quality giving +1% and +2% stack to +3% or +3.02%? If I have two different charms boosting the same thing, are they additive (because they're both boosts from charms) or multiplicative (because they're different spells)? What about if I have two copies of the same charm up at once? Does the exponential upgrade boost apply to the levels you already have, or only to future purchases?

I could go on for a while, but I'll stop here. I don't actually want you to answer these questions; they're representative of the ones I have, but by no means comprehensive. I want the answers to these questions to be somewhere in the game (probably hidden behind some menu to not get in the way). I want to be able to ask the game how it gets its answers and follow along.

... also on the topic of "option to make things more visually complicated", it'd be nice if there was a setting to make everything start at 0 instead of 1, so that level n means a +n bonus instead of +(n-1).

vocal valley
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in several cases you can see how they are added together in the details screen for either the resource, alchemy type or spell type in question

strange aurora
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the details screen says where the various boosts affecting something come from, but not necessarily how they combine

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it helps! it's a good start. but it's not quite enough.

vocal valley
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how would you like something like this to look then?
it already lists the total at the top, the total of each subgroup (though it doesnt show that each subgroup is multiplicative with each other), and a + for additive and x for multiplicative

unknown.png
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there are definitely a few that lack a detail screen that should have it, and it doesnt list anywhere that buffs from different spell types are multiplicative with each other, but for those that have a detail screen all the info is there, though maybe there are parts of it that could be improved

hardy sluice
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So maybe add to the total in parentheses that it is the result of base x main

strange aurora
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just make it clearer how the pieces fit together, I think

hardy sluice
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I think the details screen does that on it’s own except maybe the base x main = total thing

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Maybe a clarification that multiplicative buffs are multiplicative with each other

vocal valley
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One thing that should really be somewhere are the buffs to upgrades, those can easily be lost among all the other numbers

hardy sluice
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That’s true

vocal valley
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like how a bunch of stuff buffs the wisdom wizardry upgrade

hardy sluice
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Maybe a separate screen?

strange aurora
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and where does Raloch's x2.31 come from

vocal valley
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an active spell effect

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2 instances of it

strange aurora
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right, but its source should be findable from here

hardy sluice
hardy sluice
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And on upgrades and stuff you can click on it to take you there

vocal valley
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you can click a spell too

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it opens the loadout tab

hardy sluice
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Ah

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And highlights the spell hopefully?

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Or no?

vocal valley
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doesnt

hardy sluice
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😕

strange aurora
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it should explain how it calculates x2.31 precisely

hardy sluice
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You can find that information from the spell

strange aurora
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also, it'd be nice if it wasn't time-sensitive (when the buff runs out and suddenly it changes halfway through reading it)

vocal valley
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thats one thing I like about the details screen, it doesnt change as long as its open

strange aurora
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oh nice

hardy sluice
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Oh good

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Should have known that probably

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But still good

hardy sluice
strange aurora
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that's true

hardy sluice
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And it’s not that hard to figure out from looking at the spell

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Divining power, conjure power(though neither effect the multiplier buff), spell level

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Charm power(also doesn’t affect multiplier)

strange aurora
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it'd be nice to have that all in one place, but I can see why it isn't

hot basalt
# strange aurora it should explain how it calculates `x2.31` precisely

the calculations have already been done beforehand, because the multiplier from it is based on raloch's cube's level.

Anyways, maybe its because ive been playing the game for a while, but i feel that the numbers are things are pretty transparent and understandable, if you get the basics and learn the exceptions(+% and +% to a resource always stacks additively, +% and +% from buffs to different spell types of the spell stacks multiplicatively)

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however, yeah it would be nice to see the underlying mechanics, and see how close ket was to determining spell mastery stuff

strange aurora
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okay after sleeping on it I think I've identified a source of confusion

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there are two kinds of boosts (additive and multiplicative) and two ways of combining boosts (additively and multiplicatively)

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converting from one type of boost to the other is simple enough (mx = ax + 1) but it makes combining boosts the "wrong" way slightly more complicated (mx × my = ax + ay + (ax × ay); ax + ay = mx + my - 1)

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(where ax means "the boost x, viewed additively" and mx means "the boost x, viewed multiplicatively")

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the details screen describes the type of each boost, but this still leaves some the interactions of unclear type

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(I am leaving the % out of the equations because it just means /100 and taking note of it would make things far more unwieldy)

hot basalt
strange aurora
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the right side is additive again, you need an additional +1 to balance it out

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(ax + 1)(ay + 1) - 1 = ax*ay + ax + ay + 1 - 1

hardy sluice
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Hey

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No extra math

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Calculus is enough thank you very much

strange aurora
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I could (should) have made that more clear but annotating the entire equation with 'additive' or 'multiplicative' felt clunky

hot basalt
strange aurora
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same deal there

hot basalt
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+100% buff + 100% buff is x3 yes, though transitioning from additive to multiplicative

strange aurora
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... implicit conversion between additive and multiplicative bonuses is exactly what I'm here to complain about, so this was probably a bit hypocritical of me

hot basalt
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basically:
+value is additive always
+% is additive for resources, multiplicative for spells (provided coming from different spell types)
x is always multiplicative

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so there technically isn't just two types of boosts, the +% can act additively and multiplicatively, everything else sticks to their own lane

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so the formulas above don't apply to additive buffs which are not percentages

strange aurora
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you're right, there aren't two types of boosts, there are two ways to display boosts, which neatly correspond with two ways of combining boosts

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(I'm discounting +val because it's a value in its own right instead of an increase to existing values)

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I'm asking for it to be clearer how boosts are combined, which is admittedly already pretty good tbh

hardy sluice
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Eh i would say there are two types of boosts

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+% is additive except in certain scenarios, different types in the case of spell power, base x main, that kind of thing

vocal valley
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additive within its own category, multiplicative with other categories

rancid dust
hot basalt