Dec 12 Namada Validator Circle 🟡

[wild quartz]

First post-mainnet Validator Circle!

• how's it going?
• what have you been hearing? how can we improve things?
• protocol updates
• open discussion / Q&A

[low lark]

hi there

[wild quartz]

hey hey!

[maiden imp]

hello

[quasi hawk]

Heya 👋

[cosmic tangle]

hi!!!

[boreal vigil]

Hello

[low lark]

is this going to be chatting?

[fathom radish]

Hi guys

[tawdry cedar]

Hello guys

[low lark]

no audio?

[fathom radish]

How going everyone.

[edgy gazelle]

hey all

[sterile sorrel]

Hey

[sour condor]

heylooo

[wild quartz]

pretty excited! there's so much going on 😮‍💨 🥳

[quasi hawk]

Give alpha

🥹

[wild quartz]

my inboxes, RIP 💀
i will try making my way through them tomorrow

[astral phoenix]

Hi! 👋

[wild quartz]

tagging @nimble locust @icy pumice @bright dragon as a heads up

[hollow onyx]

Hi there

[low lark]

@wild quartz just to confirm that not missing anything, we do the validator circle here by chatting?

[gleaming jay]

🙌

[wild quartz]

correct! we've found that this is how people seem to be most engaged--text-based chat

[sand goblet]

Hi everyone 👋

[quasi hawk]

Can we form a team for wallet development, take grants from pgf. .

[wild quartz]

voice calls felt like talking into the void 😂

[rancid hamlet]

Hi everyone 🙌

[wild quartz]

so! how's it going? how has being a Namada validator been?

[cosmic tangle]

No problem if you don't develop anything)

[quasi hawk]

Smoothly as possible 😃

[maiden imp]

afraid of cubic slashing 🤣

[tawdry cedar]

So excited, not many occasions like this

[sour condor]

staring at the top 5 validators' and imagining what if they got the cubic slash 😂

[native minnow]

howdy!

[acoustic shore]

Hello 🖖

[quasi hawk]

Brent was saying proposals will have A week+ voting time. But you created it for 3 days 😂. Almost 100 mil nam voted in a few hours

[idle jetty]

hello 👋

[wind pond]

hi guys!

[wild quartz]

the Phase 5 proposal should also include updates to the governance parameters so that proposal voting periods are at least a week

but the governance parameters are shorter for the phases of mainnet

[sand goblet]

Hey!
Could you please elaborate? What issues have you encountered?

[paper mountain]

Hello

[wild quartz]

that should be in the parameters discussion forum topic, although that had a lot of posts to sift through 😅

[hollow onyx]

Any update on delegation?

[quasi hawk]

I didn't fill the form 😔

Only 50 Validator, I don't have a chance 😅

[weary moss]

What mechanism is in place to avoid too much stacking on a single validator and hence low decentralization?

[wild quartz]

we'll have to wait for word from Anoma Foundation. i think the smart thing to do would be to wait until after rewards are turned on so we can see how much stake is online and how it's distributed

[wild quartz]

iirc there should be another round in 6mo

[worn moat]

Oh, a circle. Was busy writing a forum post.

About manifesting NAM value.

https://tenor.com/view/professor-x-xavier-x-men-telepathy-gif-12745110

[hollow onyx]

There were couple of links mentioned to update contributions. Are you going to review those while delegation? Do we need to do PR in both?

[wild quartz]

probably the slashing mechanism is the best nudge to distribute stake (escalating penalty size may discourage staking with the biggest validators). does Namadillo have features for encouraging distributed stake?

thinking about this, it'd probably good for stakers to be educated and to spread the word about spreading around the delegations

[slender yacht]

Heyhey🫡

[wild quartz]

we (Luminara) don't have a delegation program yet, but i imagine that more information enables Anoma Foundation to better evaluate their delegations. did that answer your Q?

@icy pumice, i posted about there being a fork of Housefire testnet running. can you give folks an update about that?

[willow thistle]

Hi everyone, @steep fossil mentioned that they would try to keep the timeline: on the 28th Nov the AF sent an email saying that an update would be provided within 2 weeks and today it has been two weeks so I assume delegations could happen very soon maybe this week

[worn moat]

Why does it have to be through catastrophic punishment that in the worst case is 100% borne by stakers and 0% by the operator?

[wild quartz]

this being the post: https://forum.namada.net/t/phase-2-proposal-discussion/1297/28?u=gavin

we (Luminara) launched a proposal to advance to Mainnet Phase 2, which is to activate inflation for staking rewards and PGF

Brent tested the proposal on another Housefire chain that was in Phase 1

[worn moat]

Seems like there is little recourse for stakers other than "you should have done better due diligence" where there is little diligence to be had other than posts on social media. Who knows what skeletons reside in the data center?

[cosmic tangle]

There's no major problems, it's just not going as fast as I'd like. have been working on improvements to explorer. ( maybe soon I'll be getting into Rust as well😁 )
the main task now is to fix the indexing of the bids. This is already vital in explorer. And improve the UI/UX
we launched support for the test network (housefire)
we made a number of UI improvements, added additional necessary information (lists of delegates for each validator).
We added a page with the list of known tokens, now we want to know how to correctly calculate APR for MASP tokens. I asked this question today in the “integrations” thread. https://explorer75.org/namada/tokens

[wild quartz]

it's a good question, but probably a little too in-depth for me to discuss here. happy to chat about it in #🔗-protocol-ibc-docs

[worn moat]

Maybe I am not really looking for how we got here, but if there are solutions, like @bright dragon posted recently.

[wild quartz]

in general, what have you been hearing about Namada? how can we improve things? ie. start doing; keep doing; do more of; stop doing

[wild quartz]

can you pls drop a link to his comment in #🔗-protocol-ibc-docs?

[willow thistle]

Not sure if you are in touch with bitcoin suisse, but some weeks ago in a call they were very excited about supporting namada on day 1 and compared it to how they supported celestia on day 1 last year

[wild quartz]

btw, my understanding is that there's a team coming on to help with community and a marketing push

[weary moss]

In ADA it is a built-in feature. Once a validator is saturated, stacking more on it is disincentivize. How: adding more stake on it does not mean more rewards. Hence if more delegators stake on it, the rewards will remain the same but it will be redistributed with more delegators. Hence delegators will always search for non saturated validators.

[wild quartz]

i've heard that they are supporting Namada, but i don't know more than that
there was work done to help their integration

[wild quartz]

interesting! yes let's chat in #🔗-protocol-ibc-docs after this

just wanna make sure folks see this:
in general, what have you been hearing about Namada? how can we improve things? ie. start doing; keep doing; do more of; stop doing

[maiden imp]

ah as far as I remember, will Keplr wallet be integrated with us?

[worn moat]

In what respect do you mean? Communication wise?

[gleaming jay]

or maybe cosmostation

[wild quartz]

an idea i'm excited about is https://discord.com/channels/833618405537218590/1316142427672809514
it could be a big opportunity (and fun way) to get pre-market NAM into the hands of a wider community

[icy pumice]

now that Namada has reached v1.0.0 and is feature-stable, we'd like to replace the existing housfire with a 'real' testnet more like you would see on other chains.

the idea is to have a permanent testnet with maybe ~20 operators. it won't be constantly shutdown/relaunched but run continuously with the same chain-id, upgrading as necessary. we'll test out any governance wasm and state migrations on the testnet before mainnet

[wild quartz]

anything
is there a little thing here or there? or is there one particularly important thing that could be a big opportunity to address

[strange ruin]

hoping it's not the same team as in the anoma discord?

[wild quartz]

is not

[tawdry cedar]

This makes sense since it will be easy to test with real mainnet parameters. Would love to join this testnet team

[cosmic tangle]

NAM is deflation coin 👀 🤔 ```$ namadac native-supply
nam: 999998000.000000

[strange ruin]

I'm happy to keep some testnet infra up if desired

[worn moat]

• Wallet problems, mostly from airdrop (non-)claiimmoooors
• Interface UI/UX
• Retail not understanding why there is not a single canonical interface
• Retail not understanding what shielding is and why

[wild quartz]

ahaha yeah, technically
NAM left circulation from the PGF steward proposal deposit, 2k NAM

[maiden imp]

happy to join force

[wild quartz]

also if our proposal fails, an additional 2k would be removed from circulation

another interesting thing to note is that the CLI has a feature that shows the circulating supply, which does not include:

• unallocated tokens accrued in PGF
• slashed tokens
• forfeited deposits from governance proposals

this could be handy for coingecko and exchanges, whoever needs to be seeing the token supply

[worn moat]

• Getting in touch with Coin Center for planning the donation

[wild quartz]

what kind of infra support do you think Housefire will need, @icy pumice? nothing too intense, right. probably want to focus support on mainnet infra support

[wild quartz]

yes! i'm banking on one of the Heliax founders putting us in touch.. otherwise i have to DM Peter Van (he follows me on twitter, so that helps)

[worn moat]

Cwgoes was retweeted by them

[willow thistle]

By the way from start of phase 1 until start of phase 2 it will be almost 2 weeks, is this expected for the phase 2, 3 and 4 to last each around 2 weeks also?

[wild quartz]

yeah he's my person 🙂

[slender yacht]

The idea of the Coin Center is to donate for lawyers, if I'm not wrong? Or other kind of donations?

[native minnow]

I think so, for advocacy.

[wild quartz]

this would be an airdrop to drive support to Coin Center, an advocacy group that has influenced the space to embolden people to support p2p privacy and data protection. their argument that OFAC overstepped their jurisdiction was validated by the Fifth Circuit Court in the USA, recently. lots of big names did a lot of tweeting in favour of advancing our kind of work as a result

[icy pumice]

eventually we'll want

• namadillo + rpc/indexer/masp-indexer
• explorers
• relayers

once we have enough mainnet infra it might be worthwhile through the delegation program(s) to give some folks the option to support testnet instead as another way of contributing

[wild quartz]

the idea: airdrop those who donate to Coin Center over like 2 weeks
this way if i want NAM, i can get it, simply by making a donation with my tnam address in the memo

we'd make a PGF proposal with all of the tnam addresses, and this way we can get NAM out before Phase 5, pre-market

[strange ruin]

privacy-implications of eth+tnam idk. could it be a form submit instead?

[wild quartz]

for the most part people can't get pre-market access to a community's token. it's all VCs and unproductive campaigns

[rancid hamlet]

count us in, we are ready to support Housfire 🤝

[slender yacht]

Thanks for the context! ✌️

[strange ruin]

I think some thought should be made into exactly how the airdrop is created but assuming this isn't the place?

[cosmic tangle]

we will support the testnet without any additional conditions. This is very useful for developing new features

[worn moat]

Check the forum or the hot topic https://forum.namada.net/t/idea-use-pgf-to-airdrop-nam-to-donors-to-coin-center/1296/15

[wild quartz]

yeah, probably don't want to focus more on this, as excited as i am haha
last last thing! i could see others using this as a new token distribution mechanism and copying us. great way to showcase Namada PGF, which is also a flagship innovation
okay further discussion here: https://discord.com/channels/833618405537218590/1316142427672809514

[gleaming jay]

+1

[hollow onyx]

+1 We are in

[wild quartz]

i've heard that people are finding using Namada very smooth, so far. stake is pretty high! i think approaching 17%?

as rewards come online, i expect that this will grow

[strange ruin]

I'm with what Rigorous said above that people are complaining about the lack of "simple wallets". (the keychain+interface is counterintuitive for many)

[wild quartz]

now will probably be a good time for validators to make a push for delegations

[cosmic tangle]

16.7%

[wild quartz]

btw, Knowable has not been soliciting delegations. actually the opposite 😅 discouraging people

[sand goblet]

Soon, I will update the infra testnet repo with the same structure as the mainnet one; So everyone will be able to add their infra info once this new testnet env will start.

[cosmic tangle]

Unit410 is effectively discouraged by a 20% commission ))

[worn moat]

And still people are staking to them

[quasi hawk]

I feel like the Heliux team will get busy building Anoma and abandon us 👀

[slender yacht]

We can also support Housefire w/o issue

[gleaming jay]

Can they think is higher is better 😁 (no intents to offence anyone)

[worn moat]

It needs to be done to finish the puzzle. Remember Namada will be an important piece of that puzzle. Also, different team.

[half imp]

u410 will support the housefire testnet 🫡

[worn moat]

Honestly Namada is incredibly hard to use by generation iPad standards. Intents are necessary so transactions can all be done with one tap on the screen.

[tawdry cedar]

One might think this is APR

[idle jetty]

Need Telegram app !

[cosmic tangle]

I think this can be solved with a good interface?

[worn moat]

Without intents it will always require a lot of taps and switching between apps. Think how many steps are involved in shielding IBC.

[native minnow]

@icy pumice has the details for joining, and for folks looking to join as a validator on Housefire prior to phase 5 (on testnet). It’s good to see folks interested 👍

[worn moat]

But in a way it is all about a good interface, hiding the hard stuff in the backend

[cosmic tangle]

and don't lose the keys on the way)

[worn moat]

That is why I think the true potential of Namada will not come to fruition until Anoma is launched.

[strange ruin]

I hope Anoma remembers its Namada community

[wild quartz]

apolgoies, got pulled into something

[quasi hawk]

We get half supply airdropped

😂

[willow thistle]

In some talks of Chris privacy is mentioned as a key component needed for Anoma, so seems Namada had to be launched first so that Anoma can launch

[wild quartz]

hey everyone, i need to go! but please feel free to drop questions comments over the next ~15 mins and i will respond 🙂

[worn moat]

https://tenor.com/view/hannibal-willgraham-hughdancy-therapy-gif-5212279

[sand goblet]

I can see great synergies but I don't think Anoma really NEEDS Namada for its launch.

[worn moat]

Ah, after Phase 2, next up is Phase 3 (no shit, Sherlock!).

What is the state of readiness for Phase 3?

Phase 3 is IBC and MASP

[quasi hawk]

All good I believe

[worn moat]

During dry-run Shielded Transfers and Unshielding were not supported yet.
A while ago I saw that some MASP improvements for Namadillo were pushed.

[native minnow]

@slender yacht BTW shielded.live is really helpful to check and see that we vote with our validator key and not just our delegator wallets 😅

☝️ I almost screwed up voting...but glad there was still time

[wild quartz]

https://tenor.com/view/enhance-gif-10953787

okay back! reviewing..

[wild quartz]

yes, i'm thinking it may be good to engage on their forum. i just want to make sure it's done tactfully before i do it

[wild quartz]

my understanding is that we're ready in a technical and operational way. we demonstrated this during the Dry Run, i think

between Veil's work and the NAM incentives, i think we'll see deposits ramp up nicely

[wild quartz]

any issues here likely are not protocol issues, but Namadillo and/or MASP indexer improvements
the Namadillo team has been crushing it. but it would be good to get an update from @karmic hemlock

and @bright dragon i think is working on MASP indexer

if you haven't already, Phase 2 governance proposal is live 🕺 pls vote! you have maybe 36 more hours to vote using your validator (i'm totally guessing on the time tho, haha)

[quasi hawk]

Already 124M voting power voted.

[willow thistle]

What is the minimum voting quorum both for yes votes and total votes for the proposal to pass?

[wild quartz]

mooaarr

[wild quartz]

https://docs.namada.net/users/governance/governance-actions#tally-types

[cosmic tangle]

74%+ of staked

[worn moat]

Yes sorry, I meant MASP support of Namadillo and Ledger.

[cosmic tangle]

By the way, does the VP at the end of voting count?

[wild quartz]

wdym?

i'm going to lock up and lights out this Validator Circle 🟡
thanks everyone! exciting times 🙂