Tokenomics model for Namada. What's better?

[odd ledge]

I posted these myself as part of the discussion: #1267560102463012875 message

others have posted similar though perhaps a bit briefer and dispersed

I think my question is a bit more broad than just the balances file, but certainly also involving that

I have a draft typed up, let me put it in a paste so you can see my slightly more extended thoughts and where I'm coming from

this is a bit unfinished and perhaps a bit rough around the edges but https://pastebin.com/7WpDzPze

tldr I guess is that there are some big points that keep being objected to by community here, and I would like to see them addressed directly at least.

[stable gale]

Makes sense. Happy to go through this document and your questions. What format would be best for you? Answers in writing - here? On the forums? Answers in the AMA? Both / a combination?

[odd ledge]

for me written feedback in some format is better. I'm a big fan of discussions in discord but not too fuzzed about where exactly it is. I don't think I will be able to attend the twitter spaces so would be good if there's some documentation in the wake of that.

for me it's more about wanting a clear grip on what the facts are around process as right now it's all a little fluid to me.

[stable gale]

Gotcha. I don't think the AF can clarify much in terms of the processes of how the network should actually start (apart from what is technically necessary), since that's up to operators, but we can try to clarify at least the processes around our proposal.

Are you talking about processes in the sense of collecting feedback, any potential changes, when the proposal is final, etc.? Or something else?

[odd ledge]

yes. my understanding from some of what gavin has posted here previously was that the community feedback would go back to anoma who would then have a chance to revise any aspects of the balances proposal (including context like vesting etc). and I'm not sure if that's happening?

[stable gale]

We're definitely discussing the feedback, if that's what you mean? The whole post here is a response to community feedback, it wouldn't have happened otherwise!

I must admit that while I think I saw your specific message earlier, it hadn't been circulated in any systematic way - this thread is long and content gets lost quickly.

[odd ledge]

true, information gets lost..

[odd ledge]

I see this, but also at the end of the day, no changes are made or concessions given there as best I can tell.?

I'm basically wanting to see community concerns and proposals addressed more directly if that makes sense

and also wanting to prevent a scenario where suddenly it's too late to make changes and we missed the window of opportunity on that

[stable gale]

I don't think that's true - the requests included, for example:

• Disclosing more subcategory information - done, included both in the blog post and genesis balances file
• Explaining the decision not to propose vesting lockups - done in the forum post - obviously this is a controversial choice but we've at least attempted to make our rationale clear.
• Questions about NAM markets - unfortunately I can't comment on any market related questions.
• Clarifying the relationship between Namada and Anoma - done a bit in the forum post, definitely more clarifications and communications need to happen though.
• Clarifying plans for core dev & future RPGF allocations - a bunch of info included in the forum post, definitely more should be published though (but I haven't seen any specific Qs yet)
• Explaining why the proposal included discrete RPGF allocations in addition to Namada's built-in RPGF mechanism - done in the forum post

As far as I am aware we responded to all of the feedback - at least the feedback which was captured + summarized in the HackMD. The forum post has a bunch of "likes" and no further responses so it seems like it was helpful for some folks at least.

[odd ledge]

ok, but the answer to the proposed changes (as the four points in my paste above) are still 1. no 2. no 3. can't comment (but indications it will be taken care of) 4. no concrete info? I'm advocating for possible changes, not just clarifications. I sense the community sentiment is some frustration over the lack of actual amendments.

sorry if I'm a little direct, it's early 😅

I mean, this whole thread started with addressing a lot of these issues, hoping for change, not just clarification.

[stable gale]

No worries, being direct is great, much better than missing each other's points.

Personally my position on vesting remains the same as the one I originally published - I definitely might be wrong, but I haven't seen very convincing counterarguments, and I don't feel like I can support a proposal with vesting unless I have some idea of what the rationale actually is (otherwise e.g. I can't really defend such a proposal in public).

Perhaps a helpful note is that once the network is live, governance can vote to do more or less anything, including modifying balances, creating vesting restrictions, etc. if desired (subject to the existence of software which could support whatever functionality was desired).

From my perspective, there are many communities, and they care about different things. Response to the lack of vesting, for example, is mixed - and very polarized, people tend to be strongly in favor or strongly against (I suppose if they're neutral, they don't say anything 😆 )

What are you looking for in this discussion?

How do you get such a 99% number?

[unborn oxide]

@stable gale Hello nice to see you here! Would it be possible to see sort of high level roadmap of the future Namada changes, which you outlined earlier (eg mobile App)?

They sound promising

[stable gale]

Yeah, I think that would be a great idea, happy to work on this.

I've made my stance on vesting - and the rationale behind it - clear. I'm happy to respond to considered arguments, and you're welcome to conduct polls, but I'm not going to engage with personal attacks or accusations of malicious intent.

[honest depot]

well I guess some people just worry about the investors insta-dumping their tokens on TGE (they have 38% so could have a big impact). at the same time the 51% allocation for team & future incentives can almost be considered „vested”, so the real circulation is never 100%

[stable gale]

Yeah - I think a free market launch will definitely be unpredictable, and I'd advise folks to proceed with caution with any activities they might be engaging in.

[odd ledge]

I'm more or less neutral to the question, but very concerned about the sentiments across the board to it and how perception will affect the matters

[stable gale]

I've detailed the rationale here.

The market consists of people and organizations, it's not an abstract force. Many existing assets are fully unlocked - most of the most liquid ones are.

Which opinion are you referring to? I haven't heard any counterarguments to the post I linked, but I would welcome them.

It may well be the case that different members of the community have different goals, of course.

[odd ledge]

in any case, my desire is more clarification on exactly whether anything will change and if so which points, and also clarifications around process.

[stable gale]

You may find this answer - #1267560102463012875 message - helpful.

[wheat garnet]

55% belongs to team and vc. Who will buying this from market with that knowledge?

Also what about providing liquidity for various cex’s?

Only good for team and vc because they can cash out anytime

No other benefit from 100% unlock

[odd ledge]

thanks for taking the time, cw

[stable gale]

Personal attacks are not welcome here. If that's what you plan to contribute to the Namada community, you can find somewhere else.

If you have questions for the AMA this evening, just a reminder to drop them on the forums or make sure Gavin is aware. Signing off for now.

[wheat garnet]

You are simply great. Giving him reason to no answer anything,well done

We living in society

Fml

[odd ledge]

it's been an ongoing issue for a few weeks with completely fresh accounts engaging in the discussion this way

[barren vector]

This

If nothing's gonna change, just be upfront and say

100% unlock isn't entirely horrific so long as team and investor tokens are either locked for some amount of time or staggered unlocks over some amount of time
That's just Crypto 101
No one's going to want to touch a token with 100% unlock into circulating PLUS 100% team and investor tokens unlocked
There might be a deadcat and that's the only thing worth trading in that scenario
Supply isn't like 10m or smth manageable- It's 1b which is a lot

[terse oxide]

upd: never mind

[stable gale]

I hear the desire to be clear. If the question is primarily whether the AF would consider revising the proposal to include some kind of vesting lockups for various categories - I would not personally support that, as I don't think lockups make sense, for the reasons outlined in the forum posts linked above. I'm always open to convincing counterarguments, but so far I haven't heard any. I can't speak on behalf of the whole organization, but that is my personal opinion. Other folks are as always welcome to submit alternative proposals, and we have engaged in good faith to make that possible, e.g. by publishing the input files in the namada-genesis repository.

My arguments against lockups apply primarily to the tokens held by individuals and organizations - not so much the future RPGF portions allocated to the AF and Luminara, and I could see some possibility of a system there with some kind of new treasury account to hold those tokens and gradually release them to those entities (or other ones). This cannot be done directly by the current PGF system, unfortunately - regardless of the details there would need to be some development work, which would delay mainnet at this point, but perhaps if there's a lot of support for this idea and maybe a governance proposal that work could happen before phase 5 (before which all tokens are non-transferable anyways).

[terse oxide]

OK. Summarizing all of the above, I believe that further discussion in this topic and on the topic of tokenomics in general makes no sense. Thank you for giving a clear and complete answer 🫡 .

[rough shale]

I see. then can you elaborate a bit regarding the logic behind no listing and no liquidity .?

[honest depot]

saw someone from luminara mentioning something along the lines of „there is a team focused on exchange listings” but haven't seen any more details about it

[vernal hatch]

Bro you have already delay the project by 8 months since the Drop announcement. It would be better to have lockups and I am sure we all can agree little more delay to reach mainnet. Thanks

[jagged summit]

Nothing will change.
It's funny how this topic was created so pointlessly.

@stable gale

[pearl wedge]

i've seen at least one post from a founder saying that they believe all three founders think Anoma shouldn't have locks

they have been explained, but this all needs to go into one organized page or post that we can reference

omg account created and joined Aug 20 🤦 i fell for it

look @dark shell i gotta ban you because concern-trolling with a fresh account is sketchy af

[pearl wedge]

#1267560102463012875 message

we're about to start the twitter space, i'm going to hit all of these (although Q1 has been mostly addressed in the updated blog post table i think)

[naive jetty]

@here
In 3 minutes we will start the token economics and balances twitter space. Tune in here: https://x.com/namada/status/1824489286072168833

Namada (@namada) on X

There was a technical issue with the space we held today to discuss the recent proposal and road to mainnet, so we will be hosting the space again next Tuesday with @cwgoes, @adrianbrink and @Ether_Gavin.

Post questions you'd like to see answered below👇
https://t.co/hUB6pHGxb3

Twitter · Aug 16, 2024, 4:51 PM

[jagged summit]

Thank Gavin! i'm in AMA

[lapis zenith]

Shaleb from the community created this topic discussion... not the Namada team, everything is all community speculation that just snowballs

[odd ledge]

to be fair we were given the impression it was a community decision.

[mighty moat]

@pearl wedge the twitter space error again?

[honest ingot]

Twitter space bug ?

[shrewd sky]

Ended on my side 😢

[stable gale]

grr ELON

https://x.com/namada/status/1825939252393423239

Namada (@namada) on X

https://t.co/xt5szhD6Gt

Twitter · Aug 20, 2024, 4:53 PM

join this one

[stable gale]

btw wanted to drop a link to the post I mentioned here - https://cobie.substack.com/p/new-launches-part-1-private-capture - I learned a lot from it

[slim jasper]

What is the point of unlock 100%? Team and Vc dump on first minute then who will build this project ?

[pearl wedge]

hi, welcome, you must be new to this conversation
see this https://twitter.com/cwgoes/status/1819352120271032760 and the message directly above yours

[rough shale]

hey there buddy. did you listen to the space? wanted to know your opinion if you dont mind

[jagged summit]

Very disappointed

[slim jasper]

free launch should be without peanut airdrop

[odd ledge]

didn't have the opportunity, no.

[wild tartan]

No

pls trust the project, technology is everything, we don't care about money

[odd ledge]

tbf everyone cares about money. that's not antithetical to also caring about the tech or the project. discussing these matters have a legitimate place in the process imo.

[wild tartan]

Fam, the immense disappointment unintentionally turned me into a tech enthusiast of Namada.

🫡

It's like I fell deeply in love with a girl at first sight, and all my 'efforts' were ultimately just tools for her to make money on OnlyFans without me knowing. After discovering the truth, my reluctance forced me to love her even more just to earn a commission

[odd ledge]

Fam you're writing literal prose here haha

[dusty sentinel]

still 100% unlocked? this not possible to change?

[honest depot]

yeah mate just move on 😂

[mental quiver]

Just forget it bro. They demolished the project even before the launching

Just look at the recent tweet by NAMADA no interactions by the people on X

The team doesn't even care about it

[teal egret]

AI Transcription of "The Namada Token Economics and Genesis Balances Proposal" - Part 1

AI Transcription of "The Namada Token Economics and Genesis Balances Proposal" - Part 2

The transcription was done by machines, so if you have a problem with it, take it up with Skynet.

[odd ledge]

Thanks @teal egret

[jagged summit]

If the foundation isn’t strong and durable, the house will collapse.

[sterile berry]

This whole post has been a major disappointment so can we just get the listing over and done with already?

Let's stop playing the "community discussion" game and drop it all now. Saves everyone time.

[rough shale]

I recommend you read the transcript of the last space and see how the Anoma Founders define the community. one of the wierdest dialogs I've heard in my life

[sterile berry]

From what i understood being in this discord for almost a year now, something clearly has changed from the initial claim to now

[rough shale]

why not say so many things changed. now the community is not "some people in Discord"

[odd ledge]

btw for anyone looking at the balances file still, here's a dumb script that converts the json files into a balances.csv, which will contain one line per allocation (meaning multiple lines for some wallets even within same category):

[odd ledge]

some brief stats on the balances file separated by categories:

category | num_wallets | amo
unt | percentage | max | min | average | median
------------------------------+-------------+--------------+------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------
af_backers | 268 | 320364605.00 | 32.04 | 20000000.00 | 3843.84 | 1195390.32 | 94498.56
early_core_contributors | 217 | 187986994.17 | 18.80 | 6866969.00 | 100.00 | 866299.51 | 303544.20
r&d_ecosystem_dev | 52 | 170000000.00 | 17.00 | 75000000.00 | 2500.00 | 3269230.77 | 10000.00
public_allocations_completed | 70200 | 161108277.30 | 16.11 | 4020000.00 | 30.00 | 2294.99 | 135.92
public_allocations_future | 3 | 160540123.54 | 16.05 | 55270111.75 | 50000000.00 | 53513374.51 | 55270011.79

[unkempt pecan]

for normal public airdrop owners the avg is 2294 which should not put any significant sell pressure if that happen . so lets see how it will goes . may be things will be good after all

[odd ledge]

the interesting thing about the data is the big difference between the average and the median, the median being significantly lower (by order of magnitutes) in most categories, meaning there's a high token concentration in top wallets. (which isn't surprising but reflected in said metrics - unless I made a mistake in querying ofc. could also be somewhat reflective of lack of granularity in category splits).

I wanted to do some charts but didn't get to it yet

[night oriole]

Could you query for how many wallets for 10M> 5M> 1M> 500k> ...?

[odd ledge]

anything can be queried

well mostly

[crisp parcel]

Thank you for this!

I think you've send it via your phone hehe, but encapsulated it in ``` to preserve formatting and readability.

           category           | num_wallets |    amount    | percentage |     max     |     min     |   average   |   median
------------------------------+-------------+--------------+------------+-------------+-------------+-------------+-------------
 af_backers                   |         268 | 320364605.00 |      32.04 | 20000000.00 |     3843.84 |  1195390.32 |    94498.56
 early_core_contributors      |         217 | 187986994.17 |      18.80 |  6866969.00 |      100.00 |   866299.51 |   303544.20
 r&d_ecosystem_dev            |          52 | 170000000.00 |      17.00 | 75000000.00 |     2500.00 |  3269230.77 |    10000.00
 public_allocations_completed |       70200 | 161108277.30 |      16.11 |  4020000.00 |       30.00 |     2294.99 |      135.92
 public_allocations_future    |           3 | 160540123.54 |      16.05 | 55270111.75 | 50000000.00 | 53513374.51 | 55270011.79

Well not much of a difference for mobile users 😂, PC's a whole different story.

They should implement nowrap functionality into Discord code blocks meh.

[odd ledge]

yeah it all wraps here hehe

[shadow lantern]

@pearl wedge since there won't be NAM transfers until the last phase 5 of the mainnet launch process, I assume there won't be NAM markets or a NAM price until the phase 5? I think moving from phase 1 to phase 5 should be done fast with several governance proposals if the network is running well. Otherwise I think if moving to phase 5 takes too much this could further confuse the community and could negatively affect the trading/liquidity of NAM if the mainnet launch announcement is not quite close to the activation of the NAM transfers

[proud sluice]

I will most likely depend on mainnet validators and not Gavin

[shadow lantern]

Unless until phase 5 most bonded NAM is from knowable/Anoma foundation

[tawdry scarab]

💯

[green venture]

af + early core median = death 💀
race to the bottom
just be sure to buy the dip and sell 4-7 days deadcat (which will happen)
for easy perc gains 👍

[jaunty wave]

it's hilarious to see that anoma won't spend a cent on providing liquidity for this TGE but is spending tens (maybe hundreds) of thousands on sponsoring blockworks podcasts
Interestingly the sponsorship is for anoma and doesn't mention namada even once

surely if you were just about a launch product you would want to mention that in your advertisements, unless you knew it was dead on arrival and already moving on

[barren vector]

wait-

are they seriously not providing liquidity?? 🤣

[jaunty wave]

They are not.

Genuinely the only thing that can be said in their favor is that at least they are rugging before TGE, not after

I would be pissed if I did unpaid work as part of their testnet campaign though

[teal egret]

Seems like you are already pissed without having done any work at all

[jaunty wave]

I am not pissed, I am observing

it is like a traffic accident that I can't look away from

one caused by gross negligence

[teal egret]

I really start to wonder why projects are airdropping. Seems more trouble than it is worth.

[jaunty wave]

believe me, this airdrop would be a minuscule portion of my portfolio even if this was properly executed (which it is not)
also airdrops are not done out of kindness and charity, but for decentralization (obviously badly executed in NAMs case) and marketing

[hardy zinc]

_akko. has been warned

Reason: Bad word usage

[teal egret]

Here Mr. Observant #1267560102463012875 message

[teal egret]

https://tenor.com/view/i-dont-believe-you-whatever-lies-gif-3602502

[jaunty wave]

lol why would I care what you do or do not believe

[teal egret]

You literally just told me to believe you 🤷‍♂️

[jaunty wave]

figure of speech

anyways. just saw the anoma podcast ad and had a good chuckle at the priorities the team is having, will continue to observe 👀

[plain sparrow]

correct, i feel that

airdrop has become a part of shitting marketing and false claimed monetary benefits, the system has failed long time,

lol are you kidding

i would care or less care than nothing

[earnest peak]

Ok nothing should be given to the community?

[plain sparrow]

something is better than nothing of course, but not with the kind of toxic environment and how it's going, Remember those uniswap , dydx? they didnt promise or make any crazy hype yet they execute very well, one of the best execution ! Over time everything changes, Community giving is not something that makes project succesful, They are already working on something that they believed will change lives of people either way,(which indeed is a great help) what do we owe them is first question. No hate, but looking forward to how it execute.

[barren vector]

Uniswap and DYDX were hyped bigly fam 😂 And there are a lot of privacy platforms and protocols incl within this realm
If they just wanted to build they wouldn't have fundraised
Be for real bro; bootlicking them is insane

[plain sparrow]

bro they didnt have or airdrop plan running until they have a running project

[barren vector]

This is hilarious after they raised tens of millions
Everything is whatever at this point
I see where this is going and wish SE participants the best
Lots of hard workers in there

[plain sparrow]

that was point

namada is barely running now

[barren vector]

You are crazy if you don't think we were grinding that out back then
Just because you weren't aware doesn't mean we weren't 🤣

Bootlick whatever imaginary altruism you want; it's hilarious

[plain sparrow]

no debate, here, just saying that those airdrop ./ rewards came out of nowhere unless you expect something in return, neither i am bootlicking them, not sure if you expect something and did something, but i got them just because i used them to swap tokens way back!

it;s hilarious you think you working for some weeks and expect in millions lol

[night oriole]

Millions!?

[plain sparrow]

not just millions lol, expectation were crazy until the tokenomics drop, i keep my mouth shut and admit the consq .

i respect the hardworker and i was one of them too, I did expect too, but what can we counter when a decision is made already,

[earnest peak]

I don't see an issue in people laying their complaints, criticism is allowed and not everything the team does that the community must accept, after all why is it decentralized?

[plain sparrow]

Agree, was just sharing my own views here as well.

[odd ledge]

I think perhaps even more important that there isn't too long between enabling of transfers and appropriate listings etc

[random marsh]

If a DOGS token with zero utility with 91% unlock can hit $1B FDV at launch then why not $NAMADA with extense utility can do at least $300M FDV at launch.

[barren vector]

FDV lol
FDV just 2020 cycloors way to self-dilute their own mcaps

DOGS also provided liquidity and chased down Binance listing which speaks volumes on Anoma/Namada teams' sttitudes towards both
DOGS also has a stronger community and better market sentiment

[honest depot]

binance listings tend to help with FDV

[worldly ermine]

Dogs was a meme coin they built the community throughout
They create the hype
They provide liquidity
Exchanges chase to list

There is a difference

[mental quiver]

Exactly
Hype and Tier1 CeX listing matters

[worldly ermine]

And namada dont have anything

[mental quiver]

Haha they don't even care about that 😁

[worldly ermine]

Yup cause this is not the main project

[pearl wedge]

i think that this could be from these sizeable, single-addresses:

1. rpgf program - organizations and individual nominees: https://forum.namada.net/c/rpgf/5
2. backers - 1:1 pro rata Anoma
3. Heliax, Anoma Foundation, Luminara, Knowable, etc

[pearl wedge]

in my mind that is correct--we shouldn't have markets until Mainnet Phase 5. but yeah, exchanges do whatever they want, like the one claiming to have NAM trading currently (i guess IOUs?)

i agree that Phases of Mainnet should move quickly. this is one of the reasons we're doing a dry run and why we'd like to revise our parameters proposal to reduce governance times specifically during the Phases of Mainnet

[pearl wedge]

it's silly that people just make stuff up like this

[pearl wedge]

nah, this dude is just making stuff up 😂

[pearl wedge]

totally agree, this is being worked on

[pearl wedge]

no price discussion in this server

i want to be really clear: it's not that they don't care, it's that markets are not within the purview of Anoma Foundation. also markets are not something Knowable is focused on. there are others working on this, though, and we should get an intro soon

[jaunty wave]

dude don't tell me I am making stuff up, the guy wrote a whole novel about how they are not gonna do any market making or providing liquidity
#1267560102463012875 message

if this is somehow incorrect or changed since then it just means the comms of the team sucks, which again is not very bullish

I also cba to look up the commercial where you also accused me of making stuff up but if I come across it again I will post it just to rub it in your face

[modern moth]

I think you're missing the who

from what Gavin was saying 👆

[modern moth]

lol, read that back to yourself

please keep the conversation in this thread focused on Tokenomics

[honest depot]

who then ? don't tell me this is what CZ was working on from prison all this time

[royal garden]

Mate, Please exercise some patience, as things are still falling into place. The team is working diligently to ensure everything comes together seamlessly.

While we appreciate your feedback and criticism, I kindly ask that you express it in a respectful manner. 🙏

[terse oxide]

Claiming something without knowing the truth is not the best way to contribute to the community 😂

[pearl wedge]

okay i see why you concluded this, but yeah, Christopher wrote about the Anoma Foundation's role is / is not. this does not therefore mean that there won't be resources used to develop liquidity

i know that there are at least two teams working on this, with a third in the works

[pearl wedge]

unrelated, the comms have been bad, improvements are underway

[royal garden]

What truth is that?

[mental quiver]

The truth is they destroyed the Namada even before launching

[terse oxide]

@stable gale Hi, I would like to conclude the discussion here. We need to reach a consensus on this issue.
If you have no other suggestions and no desire to change the original proposal, then I suggest that consensus has been reached and this is considered the only correct option.
Anything else is just a waste of time.

[stable gale]

Sorry, which issue are you referring to?

[terse oxide]

Well, we have a Social Consensus stage before the mainnet launch.
At this stage, we need to reach a consensus on some things - parameters for the mainnet, the tokenomics model (maybe something else).
In this topic, we discussed the tokenomics model after the proposal from the Anoma Foundation.
As it seemed to me, nothing changes and the consensus is "reached" on this issue. Your proposal is final. I would just like to record this.

[stable gale]

As far as I know:

• Parameters are being discussed here - the discussion seems to be active, but converging.
• The AF currently has no plans to publish a different proposal than the one already published.
• Anyone else can always publish other proposals. So far, I haven't seen any.

-- but I wouldn't consider anything final or accepted until a network is actually started and deemed legitimate (or not) by social consensus.

[terse oxide]

What is social consensus in your opinion and how can it be achieved after the launch of the mainnet?😂

[stable gale]

Hard to pin down exactly, but at a high level I would just say whether people use it or not (in different ways - e.g. validating, staking, transfers, shielded actions eventually).

[terse oxide]

Again, some mysterious things, to be honest.
I thought that the Social Consensus stage is the definition of the initial settings of the mainnet, i.e. parameters, tokenomics model, distribution.

[stable gale]

Not sure that I follow tbh

Social consensus is happening all the time

If that's what you mean?

[terse oxide]

"Anyone else can always publish other proposals. So far, I haven't seen any." - Honestly, I have no desire to prove or write anything else, but for your information, there was already a proposal for two alternative options for consideration - from Pretoro and from me. These proposals were not with 0 new ones, they added recommendatory corrections to the current one. Therefore, it is strange that you write about the absence of proposals.

[stable gale]

By "proposal", I mean genesis files and software.

[terse oxide]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jwEux2Bi31AbW1BjYv2s1N8VuDB8Bi-Yb5whtxijBL0/edit stage - [SOCIAL CONSENSUS]

[stable gale]

Ah - that's a great document but you should probably ask Gavin for more specific definitions of the stages if there is a question there, I did not write it so I'm not the best to comment.

[terse oxide]

Interesting. Will the Anoma Foundation participate in any other things related to the launch of the mainnet? That's a question for the future.

[stable gale]

What do you mean specifically? The AF won't run validators, but will delegate.

[terse oxide]

Participation at some stages, for example, discussion of final versions.

[stable gale]

The AF plans to coordinate and publish information about e.g. security of the software, yeah.

If you want a line item by line item list we can work on that but I can't recite one offhand.

[terse oxide]

Understood.

[honest depot]

these discussions really seem to take a bit of an absurd tone to me? so we need „social consensus” to launch the mainnet but we also need to launch the mainnet and see „whether people use it or not (in different ways - e.g. validating, staking, transfers, shielded actions eventually)” to actually agree that social consensus has been met. turning into a chicken or the egg dilema

feels to me that most people have given up on publishing alternate mainnet proposals so why not just agree that social consensus has been met ?

[teal egret]

How I understood it, the code is open source, so anyone could launch Namada with their own balances.toml and parameters, and if that instance gets enough traction, it might become the canonical chain.

[terse oxide]

Gavin is needed here to update the status of preparations for the mainnet launch. I asked him a question in the general chat. We are waiting.

[terse oxide]

If this is true, then this is not decentralization, but bullshit.

[teal egret]

Waiting for the Anoma Foundation to handle everything and launching is not decentralization, but I think that is not what you want to hear.

[terse oxide]

1. Unscrupulous people can find loopholes and make some fake successful launch and it will be dangerous.
2. We can participate in 5-10 different versions of the network every day, hoping to find the ideal one, delaying the real mainnet
3. The real network should be coordinated by the project team.

[terse oxide]

So you think it would be better if 20 teams like Knowable joined Discord and each of them launched their own mainnet? It would be chaos.

[honest depot]

if we dont have actual tokens to vote with, how can we really reach consensus ? at the end of the day anyone can make 100 ridiculous proposals and we're still gonna be here talking about it a year from now

[teal egret]

That is true decentralization.
In reality, not going to happen in this instance, because the Anoma Foundation has been networking with big commercial validators like Figment in the background.

[terse oxide]

This all turns into a board game without rules. Let each participant come up with their own rules. In the end, it turns out that everyone is playing with themselves.

[teal egret]

That is what happened with Bitcoin, Ethereum and Zcash in the past.

[terse oxide]

There is definitely no decentralization here. You can forget about this term.
I just thought this idea was absurd, if it really happens, I will be shocked😂

[honest depot]

the only decentralised part of this launch was this thread about what decentralisation means

they're still gonna launch the network at some point and most of the tokens will belong to invetstors/ team

[teal egret]

I still think there is a chance of a reasonable counterproposal getting consensus. For example slice off a few percent from the very top balances and redirect it to an multisignature address for a mutually beneficial purpose.

[honest depot]

but then who decides to accept the new proposal ? we still haven't decided what is social consensus

[odd ledge]

when all the validators who have now submitted their validator prs start with the balances file, I think that's pretty much social consensus.

[honest depot]

I mean we had some really good sugestions from the community about the allocations but we only got generic answers back

so why even bother ?

[odd ledge]

unless someone else launch a different balances file and launch an alternate network

[honest depot]

maybe all this should have been made clear much sooner

seems like we debated for months for nothing

[teal egret]

It might not even be necessary to launch it separately. Anoma Foundation may agree with the counterproposal and we can launch together.

The main thing is, agreeing on a specific balances.toml.

Also parameters, but seems not as contentious.

We can use this as a starting point and discuss which amounts we want to adjust and perhaps add a new category.

[plain sparrow]

social consensus = "daily tweeting from Namada official twitter account" 😆

[odd ledge]

yes. the issue here is nobody has actually submitted a specific alternate proposal - yet

[honest depot]

i guess the biggest issue would be the fact that „backers of anoma foundation” get such a big chunk when namada isn't even the main project of the anoma foundation

[plain sparrow]

because does it really matter? will they hear your concern? i guess not

many people raised about tokenomics but decision stands on their favor ya?

or what could be the other reason?

[plain sparrow]

sugar daddies

[honest depot]

I feel like nobody would have made such a big fuss about the allocations if they just had some lockups for investors/team, but all this fugazi stuff about fair launching seems to have made it worse

[wheat garnet]

No matter what they do with tokenomic this will go into hell anyway. Worst sentiment since 2022.

Full unlock for team not helping at all but it is what it is 🤷‍♂️

[teal egret]

You should update your bio then.

[teal egret]

The backers paid $57 million for the development of the Anoma ecosystem, which Namada is a part of. Without their money, Namada would not exist. So it is not entirely unfair that the backers get something in return, but we can contest the amount.

[royal garden]

57 million fundraising ? So they are getting 1:6 Tokens? (Since assigned is 32%). I thought it was 1:1

I think fundraising of 57 million is not correct. It is more than that

[teal egret]

Funny, but consensus used to mean something.

If you lived through the Bitcoin Blocksize Wars in 2016 - 2018, you know that holders, miners, companies and developers switched allegiance between Bitcoin Segwit, Bitcoin XT, Bitcoin Classic and Bitcoin Cash, with consensus eventually settling on Segwit after its initial rejection because of corporate takeover concerns. Bitcoin Cash at some point exceeded Ethereum's market cap. Craig Wright claimed he was Satoshi Nakamoto and launched Bitcoin Satoshi's Vision, but did not get traction. The battle between the forks was fierce and nasty, but Segwit prevailed.

The current Ethereum we all use nowadays is not the original; that is Ethereum Classic. After a $60 million hack, a hard fork was adopted to undo the hack. There has been outcries against it, because suddenly code was not law anymore. But most people agreed, because letting the attacker drain all funds would probably mean the end of Ethereum.

Zclassic is a fork of Zcash that removed the 20% reward for the founders. Some miners jumped onboard and that is how Zclassic became known as the community takeover of Zcash. Eventually Zclassic spawned a more progressive fork called ZenCash (now Horizen), while Zclassic itself morphed into Bitcoin Private.

[teal egret]

It probably is 1:1. It means that Backers bought 32% of Anoma XAN tokens. They did not buy the whole supply.

From a 2021 article: Anoma Foundation Raises $26M to Simplify Exchanging Cryptocurrencies. Polychain Capital led the round, which valued Anoma at $260 million. That means Backers bought 10% of the supply in that round.

[royal garden]

Ahh. Makes sense. Thanks

[jaunty narwhal]

I love this stuff! I wish there was comprehensive storytelling about the history of forks

[teal egret]

There are several Netflix documentaries about cryptocurrency, for example Trust No One: The Hunt for the Crypto King about the collapse of QuadrigaCX and the mysterious death of its founder, Bitconned about the fraudulent Centra Tech ICO, American Kingpin: The Epic Hunt for the Criminal Mastermind Behind the Silk Road about Ross Ulbricht, there are multiple documentaries about John McAfee, and there is one in the make about Razzlekhan 'the Crocodile of Wall Street' and her husband who stole $4.5 billion worth of bitcoin from Bitfinex, but I have not found a movie or series that translates the simultaneous feelings of hatred between the various megalomaniacs and companies involved with the Bitcoin forks and the existential dread looming over Bitcoin as a whole, the anxiousness about Chinese, Korean, Japanese and American regulatory interventions, and the exuberance and FOMO due to the the exponentially booming prices of Bitcoin, Ethereum and a load of shitcoins as well as the insane ICO craze against the backdrop of ridiculous scams like Bitconnect during the Bitcoin Block Size Wars to the silver screen.

One of the main characters of the Block Size Wars is Jihan Wu of ASIC miner manufacturer Bitmain, who rallied behind Bitcoin Cash. Several years later, that guy is still not done attacking the current dominant version of Bitcoin.

https://x.com/ImNotTheWolf/status/1742522774302646378

ImNotTheWolf (@ImNotTheWolf) on X

For those of you wondering why Crypto market took a dump, it's supposedly because of this;

Matrixport released a report stating SEC will reject Bitcoin spot ETFs in January.

How they can know this? No clue. For now it's FUD.

4

Twitter · Jan 3, 2024, 12:26 PM

https://x.com/ImNotTheWolf/status/1742542560835383361

ImNotTheWolf (@ImNotTheWolf) on X

For those not familiar with Matrixport, it's by Jihan Wu.

Who is Jihan Wu? He's a chinese billionaire that co-founded Bitmain and basically hates Bitcoin because he lost the 'big blocks' war back in 2017.

Jihan Wu tried to force a 51% attack on BTC to force Big Blocks upgrade.

Twitter · Jan 3, 2024, 1:44 PM

[pearl wedge]

i'm part of this confusion, i think it primarily comes from the different assumptions of what a proposal is. when i say/think proposal, i realize that this is different from when Christopher says/thinks proposal. i'm working on writing something to help clarify this now

[pearl wedge]

@terse oxide @teal egret i'm preparing a forum post to help address some of the key concerns, and ideally help move things forward on allocations

[honest depot]

these once-every-few-days answers from different team members don't really help with the general sentiment. I feel like gavin really tries to find common ground with the community but the guys from heliax seem really snobbish no offense

this for example lol. can't event bother to write a full sentence

and the other guy just goes around in circles about social consensus

[modern moth]

If you knew them and the context, it looks different. It's tough to derive sentiment from "black and white". Gavin is also a name, spelled with caps 🙂

[modern moth]

It's not worth going down this path. Find something constructive.

[honest depot]

so we're arguing about grammar now lol

[modern moth]

perhaps more productive 🫶

[honest depot]

yeah maybe you're right

good luck with your social consensus

[modern moth]

Do you have something to say about Tokenomics?

[honest depot]

👍

[terse oxide]

Hi Gavin, This is good news. If you have time, please answer my questions in the general chat. #👋-general-chat message
🫡

[plain sparrow]

how is the stuckcensus going on?

[shadow lantern]

@stable gale @pearl wedge regarding the discussions about the listings of NAM, lockings, etc., it is not just about 'speculation', let's remember that namada is a PoS chain and its security depends directly on the $ value of tokens staked. If NAM has very low liquidity and low marketcap (like penumbra now for example) nobody will use namada because of the low security independently of how great and innovative the tech is. In other words, on day 1 of namada mainnet launch, ensuring maximum liquidity in the top CEXs, DEXs and derivatives trading platforms is as important as the whole namada code itself to ensure very liquid markets, a good and stable NAM price and hence a high security of the Namada PoS chain. Celestia and others understood this very well and had great liquidity since the launch and I hope the namada team has this as a maximum priority too

[unkempt pecan]

totally agree with you . and just imagine if NAMADA got 51% attacked due to that , if that ever happen then NAMADA and ANOMA are done .

[shadow lantern]

51% is not the issue like for bitcoin pow and hashrate, it's even more serious because namada is built from scratch (ie no cosmos sdk) BUT it uses cometBFT for consensus which favours safety over liveness meaning just 1/3 malicious stake could totally halt namada, cubic slashing idea is great but cannot be applied I believe if the network is halted

[unkempt pecan]

this is more Critical exactly same level as code security !!!

[odd ledge]

I agree with this 100.

[worldly ermine]

@stable gale @pearl wedge guys you should seriously re consider the tokenomics

Or ask the anoma

[odd ledge]

what does that mean?

[worldly ermine]

if they cant take decision like a change in tokenmokis. if anoma can

[odd ledge]

um Anoma doesn't have different founders

[royal garden]

Out of all the discussions we had here for over a month, This is the most logical stuff I’ve come across. Hopefully the team has a solid plan to back it up.

[light terrace]

absolutely right

[plain sparrow]

So, after years of hard work, I finally made a name for myself in the industry. Came up with this brilliant plan: create a foundation, raise millions, and launch a game-changing project. VCs? Promised them huge returns. Built a product that was going to solve every problem under the sun, launched with some hype, threw in rewards and competitions to get the buzz going. Then... decided to go public with our groundbreaking tokenomics. Spoiler: I unlocked 100% of the supply on day one. VCs and community? Speechless. Me? Well, let’s just say I learned to enjoy awkward silences and 'constructive feedback.'"

Sometimes a little chaos can make for great stories! 😆 (Don't take it personal)

P.S " But here’s the plot twist: the VCs couldn’t stop smiling" iykyk

[spare vortex]

Totally agree with it!

[barren vector]

I like how team whose whole pitch has been safety/privacy through decentralization fails/failed to understand ths point about POS ecosystems. 😂

They just blatantly ignoring Hector and his actual legitmate point and replying elsewhere in the server. 🤣

[rough shale]

I guess we also need to learn the definition of "server" in the near future. Terminology is the key here cuz apparently we live in parallel universes far from the team

so far I've learned these words from new planet : Proposal, community, social consensus and initial supply

[autumn fiber]

you need a spaceship that can travel faster than the speed of light

[shadow lantern]

Following up on this, I got useful feedback regarding CEXs listings, sharing here for visibility and planning @pearl wedge @stable gale: '‘For early projects it's definitely not free, once you're a big name some smaller exchanges will offer lower price for listing, but large exchanges ask for quite a lot in return. Like for Coinbase we have to stake a very large number of tokens with them, Binance generally the best path to listing is by having their venture arm invest in your project otherwise its extremely tough as the only other path is through the online form which is flooded. Smaller but still good ones I believe its just a fee, but the big ones will always find a way to take a cut if you want to list with them, unless you have a ton of hype or connections’. This clearly means a lot of work is required for the top CEXs listings and Heliax mentioned they are not involved with this but Gavin said some teams are working on this, would be great to have more details, doing nothing and hoping that the top CEXs will list NAM for free on day 1 of the launch I don't think is the best strategy, especially because Binance labs invested in Celestia for example but not sure if they invested in Anoma/Namada meaning the listing may be even more challenging although Coinbase ventures seems they invested. Polychain also invested in Anoma/Namada so definitely the anoma foundation/heliax need to work with polychain and all the other major investors for the top CEXs listings

[green venture]

I had figure privacy Namada focus would opt for dex instead of cex- Since decentralized exchange rather than centralized exchange. But then again Osmosis (Cosmos #1 dex) would require liquidity, which they have no desire to do themselves. 💀

[shadow lantern]

The liquidity of DEXs is very small compared to CEXs, which is also small compared to derivatives markets. For any serious/reliable NAM price top volume is needed in the top CEXs and crypto derivatives markets, only with DEXs the project is DOA like penumbra for example which is a close namada competitor. Moreover, the tools required for professional traders and available in CEXs or derivative markets don't really exist on DEXs. The DEXs are just AMM which is basically an efficient way to swap tokens, but professionals traders need deep orderbooks in CEXs and derivatives markets

[odd ledge]

Seriously I'm getting annoyed with the constant toxic crap coming from you guys. There have been pretty strong indications liquidity will be taken care of? You all keep ignoring announced stuff and just keep on the same narrative which is designed for what?

[unkempt pecan]

@pearl wedge @stable gale

Keep in mind that you're competing with Penumbra, which is already ahead of Namada. To become the top player in your space, you must list on as many centralized exchanges (CEX) as possible. It's not just about development and good ideas.

Look at Lava Network—it has a great Layer 1 concept, offering support for RPC and more, and it works well technically. However, due to miscalculations in market strategy—such as having a low FDV and relying only on decentralized exchanges (DEX)—they are struggling. No one is buying, and even the RPC providers for the network are suffering, with many considering stopping their services.

If Namada wants to succeed and give VCs a return on their investment, it must be listed on CEXs and generate good hype. It’s disappointing to see meme coins securing multiple CEX listings and having high FDVs, while promising projects like Lava and Namada falter because they’re missing a crucial piece of the puzzle.

We should learn from others' mistakes (Lava, Penumbra). The crypto space isn't mature enough yet for a DEX-only approach or low FDV strategies. Maybe in 10 years, but not now.

[plain sparrow]

Well said, completely make sense.

[teal egret]

Ideologically speaking I agree about DEXs, as I have been rugged too many times by CEXs. The last part of your post is unnecessary and out of date.

[barren vector]

It's fucking hilarious how crypto has circled back to CEXs.

IDEX worked great. Orderbook and everything. ForkDelta also worked great.

Everyone who came in 2020 cycle just lazy imo. It's comical how the space circled back to CEXs despite yearning for decentralization and despite the big push away from CEXs pre-2020.

Really puts into perspective the point that web3 is a big cashgrab and we just have to get ours before the VCs get theirs.

So, in that regard: I agree about CEXs. Spam the listings and let's get this shit done. 👍

[potent willow]

Namada should be listed on Shopee, Amazon, Taobao,...

[pearl wedge]

we're not competing with Penumbra. Namada is for payments, Penumbra is a dex. also until there's any kind of adoption of this kind of architecture (ie. data protection and crypto), there's nothing to compete for

the only competition imo is shielded vs unshielded

it's taken a while, but @here it is: https://forum.namada.net/t/knowables-position-on-the-anoma-foundations-balances-proposal/954

this is our position on the Anoma Foundation's proposal

[modern moth]

The communication is solid, thanks for the clarification 👍

I agree that unlocked supply should force market participants to reveal their preferences immediately, so I stand in agreement about unlocked tokens from the outset.

I would like to highlight:
our strongest contributors have yet to join our mission to me this means those with allocations have early entry, and in this day and age, that is a very valuable opportunity.

I'm glad to hear that liquidity planning is in the forefront of the minds planning for Namada's success. Thanks for the diligence and hard work!

I'm pleased to see that the proposed launch conditions of Namada are a hybrid of some of the best conditions that I've seen work well for other projects; strong dedicated core dev team, RPGF 🧠, unlocked from the start, planned delegation programs, are just a few examples. That doesn't go without saying that my experiences are limited, but the beauty of it is case in point - we can contribute our thoughts as a community and our voices are heard and considered 🤝

we think that it’s fair to allocate backers a pro-rata NAM position and I 💯 agree to this and have great appreciation to the folks from Anoma for bringing their best and the resources needed to bring Namda where it is already.

...we’ll have the market support needed for Namada’s economy to flourish

Let's go!!! 🚀

[warm flume]

When tge??

All this actions without result

[dry basalt]

#🫖-gm talk here

[vagrant tinsel]

We are in stage 2 or not?

[unborn oxide]

Seems like yes, or it will be additionally announced soon

[wild tartan]

[odd ledge]

there's ample information about the process around the discord.

[warm flume]

Enough Info you say? Lmao

[odd ledge]

yes. enough with the toxic stuff

[warm flume]

Just lol,you're the one toxic here😂

[terse oxide]

Hi Gavin, Thanks for your post. Can we say that we have reached "Social Consensus" on the Anoma Foundation proposal? I think so, since one of the core teams (your team) has supported this proposal, we need to move forward with the launch plan and consider this proposal as the final version, otherwise further discussions will cause pointless stalling of the process.

[pearl wedge]

it seems to me that the consensus on the matter of "do we launch this using these balances or not" is likely yes. i think we're ready to move forward, and if anyone--validators and/or contributors--thinks there's something in our plan that's a problem, please let me know

(it's not the kind of social consensus i had in mind--we'll need to develop our norms and core community further)

[terse oxide]

Yes, I understand what you mean. I just wanted to make sure that the question of this topic will not block the progress of your plan to launch the mainnet. I will wait for the next stages. Good luck to everyone.

[shadow lantern]

In the forum post you mentioned 'Markets are not the Anoma Foundation or Knowable’s role, but this does not mean that liquidity planning has been ignored over the past 9 months. In addition, there are capable teams further joining these efforts, and we’re looking forward to introducing one of these teams within the next few weeks (likely sooner). Nothing is final yet, and the topic is sensitive: it takes time to get to proper arrangements made before announcements can happen. However, we know that everyone involved understands just how critical liquidity planning is for Namada’s success.' -> Currently Celestia has its largest spot volume with USDT in Binance and its largest spot volume with fiat USD in Coinbase. Also Celestia had around $1.7 billion volume in the last 30 days and also one of the best volume/mcap ratio amongst the top 100 projects by mcap. How confident are you that Namada can also achieve something similar in terms of volume/liquidity after the mainnet launch?

[autumn fiber]

I think this is a difficult question to answer. It does not depend only on Anoma Foundation. To achieve such a goal, we need a strong community, builders, developers, KOLs, influencers,... working together.

[shadow lantern]

But although Gavin says that markets are not the role of the Anoma Foundation, the mission of the foundation is 'Fostering and ensuring the development and long-term sustainability of the Anoma ecosystem', the Anoma ecosystem includes Namada and to ensure the long term sustainability a high security of Namada is critical and for this deep liquidity is critical so seems like it is actually a role of the Anoma Foundation

[pearl wedge]

did any reputable project eg. Celestia make any kind of indication of this sort of thing at this stage? or did it just happen alongside announcements after mainnet

is it not known that openly discussing various sensitive relationships puts them at risk?

[shadow lantern]

Binance labs invested in celestia so that was an indication. For Namada coinbase ventures invested but seems binance labs no

[pearl wedge]

okay but it would be dumb for people working on Celestia to discuss these kinds of sensitive relationships before it's time, no?

like what's more important: finding out when the time is right, or knowing now and having the relationship ending as a result

[shadow lantern]

Gavin, Celestia launched the mainnet on the 31st October 2023, Binance announced TIA listing the day before (https://www.binance.com/en/support/announcement/binance-will-list-celestia-tia-with-seed-tag-applied-4492f05f8b0e40f2a6dc9321aba0ba27), Coinbase the day after (https://x.com/CoinbaseAssets/status/1719790581705007167), and kraken on the same day (https://blog.kraken.com/product/asset-listings/trading-for-celestia-tia-starts-now), this is what must happen also with Namada's NAM

[unborn oxide]

What is the point of such comparisons with Celestia? What answers do you want? That Namada will have the same launch and listing schedule as Celestia?

[worldly ermine]

Not at all.

[unborn oxide]

Could you please bring the key points from your forum post to Announcements channel?
Maybe alongside Stage 2 launch notification)

[pearl wedge]

thanks, i am planning to announce

[pearl wedge]

it makes sense to me that 1) those whose announcement it is to make are the ones discussing this and 2) it's happening at mainnet

[teal egret]

I could read it between the lines from your comments about this topic in the past months, but it seems you have to hammer it home.

[shadow lantern]

Yes but in Namada 'at mainnet' is more complex because transfers won't happen until phase 5. It seems it could be better to release all the mainnet announcements at phase 5 when listing, trading and transfers can happen. Otherwise, if there is a lot of announcements at phase 1 of mainnet but people see no listing announcements, no trading, etc. this could be bad, because most people will have no idea about the phases of the mainnet launch

[pearl wedge]

noted! yes, i think those working on comms understand that we need to make clear that mainnet =/= transfers, and that NAM won't move until Phase 5

[pearl wedge]

https://x.com/llamaonthebrink/status/1834290620304625962

MilliΞ (@llamaonthebrink) on X

@milesjennings Decentralization is key to everything we're trying to build

But I think there is a credible case to be made that long lock-ups are actually worse for a project's decentralization efforts.

In fact, I see this with many projects today. Even years after launch, early stage

Twitter · Sep 12, 2024, 5:58 PM

[worldly ermine]

Wow now a days even a meme coins having a lockup period
😅

[mental quiver]

Even meme coins are getting listed on Tier1 Exchanges

[odd ledge]

this is not the right channel man

[shadow lantern]

https://x.com/injective/status/1845093082804412652

'A visual of circulating token supply for major L1s in crypto today.

$INJ currently is one of the only chains with a fully circulating token supply 🎯' @stable gale

[jagged summit]

But only 100m in supply total and circulation 97m

[odd ledge]

how does that make a difference?

[unkempt pecan]

if its only that then look at price for INJ and compare that with TS and SC for Namada ... WE DONT TALK ABOUT PRICES IN HERE. I am just following your argument

[sour ember]

Lmao

[sour ember]

Hahahahahah bro maths

[jagged summit]

Namada 1B 🤔

[jagged summit]

I didn't mention the price, man.

[unkempt pecan]

yes i know and Thank you . But i think its clear now using that in the equation .

[balmy vault]

If una no talk funny
E no dey ever satisfy una
You no go like go build one protocol too?
Make we see how fast you go launch.

[odd ledge]

what am I missing? ~100% is ~100%?

[jagged summit]

Are 100m = 1B?

[shadow lantern]

No, but ~100% = ~100% 😅

[jagged summit]

No, but 100m = 1b 🥺

[shadow lantern]

In that graph Injective is comparing % of supply unlocked by chain, which is ~100% for Injective and also for Namada. It is a comparison of % of supply unlocked not a comparison of the total supply

[terse oxide]

I haven't been here for a long time, first I want to clarify, why did you drop this? As a comparison or what?

IMHO - A very important note should be here, Injective organically issued its tokens, liquidity was organically accumulated in order to maintain the level of security that they need. In the case of Namada, all this will happen without organics, in one second and all at once.

[shadow lantern]

What do you mean by organic liquidity? If NAM has top liquidity from day 1 in the top exchanges, with the top custodians, institutionals traders, etc. this is the most important. Liquidity has to be very deep from day 1 of the launch, look at penumbra, lava you cannot build liquidity organically, you either have all the institutional support from day 1 like Namada, or you don't

You focus too much on the circulating supply details, but the most important is the institutional support. Look at polkadot, celestia, in day 1 coordinated support in the top exchanges, custodians, institutionals, everywhere and this will happen also with Namada, this only happens for the top major mainnet launches. If institutionals dont care about a project, a good example lava or penumbra, then on day 1 there is no ledger support, no top custodian or exchanges and liquidity basically nothing

[terse oxide]

The easiest way is to support linearly unlocked tokens, it requires less effort and money. In my opinion, this is organic. And when you have 100% supply in operation right away, there is a big chance to screw up, it is enough to not comply with the liquidity proportion and you already have a network with a security threat.

What makes you think that Namada will have the things you named 100%?

[shadow lantern]

Because I'm in touch with many of those institutionals and have calls with them

[terse oxide]

What makes you think that Namadu will be supported the way you wanted?

[terse oxide]

Will they support them at your request and efforts or is it the work of the project team? I don't understand

[shadow lantern]

Institutionals telling me they will support trading, custody and staking of NAM on day 1, which I only saw before for major launches like polkadot or celestia. LOL of course they wont support at my request this needs planning in advanced of many months, I just asked and they said yes full support on day 1 for namada like for celestia before, this is super rare, and only happens for the really major breakthrough mainnet launches

[terse oxide]

Is day 1 the mainnet day or phase 5?
well then let's hope they manage to do it before phase 5, otherwise reviving a dead product is so-so

[shadow lantern]

Of course day 1 means when transfers are enabled in phase 5

[terse oxide]

and is the name of Institutional a secret or can you find out who these guys are?
by the way, it turns out that Institutional works with the Anoma team? after all, they need liquidity and so on... it's just the first time I hear about this and it's strange that there is such positivity

[shadow lantern]

Looking at the funds raised, top investors believed in the namada/anoma team, looking at expected support on day 1 also institutionals see huge potential, and looking at all the top and institutional validators already on namada, everyone seems to agree namada is biggest mainnet launch in 2024. It is no secret, ledger will add namada app, and namada is not cosmos chain, adding app of new chain like namada in ledger is something they wouldnt do unless they see a huge business case with namada. Bitcoin suisse, you can call them and onboard with them, after polkadot, celestia, namada next project they will support on day 1, for trading they told me depends on their partner exchanges but that listing is expected shortly after launch and you can guess who are the partner exchanges. I'm also supporting the team to talk with Fireblocks and other major custodians

[terse oxide]

"everyone seems to agree namada is biggest mainnet launch in 2024."
but scroll, aleo, taiko and more projects launched in 2024...

[shadow lantern]

And it makes total sense, IBC has now become the blockchain interoperability standard, and the Namada co-founder mostly built IBC so institutionals and investors are smart, and they just know given the success of IBC, then they can trust namada/anoma will also be a huge success

[shadow lantern]

I didn't see such coordinated institutional support on day 1 since celestia, bitcoin suisse didnt support since celestia another project on day 1 apart from adding eigenlayer support, and now they will add support on day 1 for namada

[terse oxide]

This is the first time I've heard of these guys, maybe I'm not that knowledgeable about this topic

but it seems like they decided to support their fellow countrymen, is Celestia from Suisse?

[shadow lantern]

Bitcoin suisse was one of the early institutionals in crypto, supporting regulated ICOs back in 2017 but maybe you are new to crypto. Most crypto projects have foundation in switzerland starting with Ethereum

Also, bitcoin suisse was first institutional to support staking of Ethereum 2.0

[terse oxide]

Well, Hector, you gave too much bullish news about Namada, my mood has even improved. Let's hope that this is all true.

[green venture]

Bootlickers not understanding it's easier for 100m to move than 1b to move is hilarious

So smallbrained to think all 100% unlocks are the same

The absolute BASICS of trading (but not for them) 🤣 🤣 🤣

[modern moth]

who might that be

[odd ledge]

he couldn't possibly be talking about me

[odd ledge]

bro, sorry, but that's absolutely insane.

(nominal) supply size doesn't matter (except for unit bias but even then people would often prefer larger units)

[modern moth]

Yes. Once upon a time in another project, I thought I wanted to see circulating supply low. After mulling over a bit of content and talking with other community members, I changed my mind.

I agree.

[shadow lantern]

Polkadot was going to have I think 10M supply and before the mainnet launch they did some changes to have 1B supply with a 'Proposal for redenomination of DOT': 'The main benefit of this change is to avoid using small decimals when dealing with DOT and to achieve an easier calculation system'. It doesn't matter whether 10M, 100M, 1B or another total supply, the only difference is the decimals and 1B is the preferred supply as shown also by the change of Polkadot

[odd ledge]

I'm rereading the statement about 100m moving faster again and again to see if I missed something. But. It's completely nonsensical.

[autumn fiber]

1B is a good number. I dont like 100m or 10B

[odd ledge]

good number go brrr

no but tbf I like 1b too, it feels like a comfortable fit. Regardless, total supply could be 1 flat, and it would still be the same (though admittedly not very handy).

[autumn fiber]

Let's fire. I'm cooking on Namada fire 🍳

[teal egret]

Shiba Inu would like to have a bark with you

Total supply
589.52T SHIB

Circulating supply
589.27T SHIB

Market cap
$10.80B

[shadow lantern]

Projects choose such large supply as a trick because then the price per token looks very small like 0.000... and people think it is 'cheap' because most don't understand the relation between supply, price, marketcap, etc., look at all memecoins in top 100 they are all using this large supply trick

[teal egret]

"Wow, this token is only 0.000003 cent, imagine if it goes up like Bitcoin! I will be a trillionaire!"

It works though. Meme tokens are the biggest winners in this cycle. People have become disillusioned with many utility tokens. They think meme tokens are more upfront and straightforward. The only things that matter are attention and when the founders pull the rug.

[tribal crane]

Personally, I think no-lockup is such a radical idea in today's crypto market that it can work for the better. Who can say that today's crypto market works well? Since it doesn't, let's do something truly different.

[honest ingot]

I totally agree !

[gaunt ferry]

Where was it done?

[honest ingot]

ftx

[gaunt ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/lolol-lmao-gif-22173456

[barren sierra]

Everything will be fine, Namada will have at least 3B capitalization

[prime gyro]

looks unreal 💀
1bln and i will be fine

[tribal crane]

Who says lockups work? 🤡 Some of you have dropped critical thinking for circlejerking.

[weak garden]

so 100% unlock at TGE? i couldnt read all the above thx in advance

[odd ledge]

as several people have told you in the general chat, yes.

[weak garden]

oke i saw on cryptorank that around 16% of the supply is for future PGF Programs so we dont know yet if 100% unlock = 1bn is that right?

[verbal grove]

Correct
You can see the tokenomics here.
https://namada.net/blog/namada-community-genesis-process-cryptoeconomic-mechanisms-and-the-genesis-allocations