#Death Guard 2.0 - Theorycrafting

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mystic vigil
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Hello fellow war crimes enjoyers ! I'm creating this thread to discuss DG tactics, as there isn't any yet

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<@&877303590690111508>

austere siren
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Creeping Death is dead silly and I adore it

trim echo
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So is The Reqping

austere siren
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I don't know how strong it is REALLY but it felt real good in a game i played on monday

mystic vigil
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Yeah both are great

austere siren
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For the reaping, the cost feels huge

trim echo
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DG is in a good place

austere siren
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No movement based reactions?

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Big sad

mystic vigil
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Rad grenades on everything, and HSS as troop, so huge

trim echo
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Rad grenades + power scythes is naughty

austere siren
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HSS as troops is mad, yeah. Just wish things go line too

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But everyone isn't getting that

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So no need to be salty hear

mystic vigil
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Too bad power scythes lost rending 4, they trade badly into termies now

austere siren
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How are people feeling about toxin bombs?

mystic vigil
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I love them

trim echo
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Same

mystic vigil
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Here is a list I've been thinking of

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I need to cut 70 points, but I don't know where...

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The Chaplain goes with the command squad to do a budget anti-termies death star

austere siren
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So few guys for the chaplain squad

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Ahh

mystic vigil
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The command squad is 5

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They are 3 base

austere siren
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Yeahhh i missed that and thought it was 3

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Is Calas in that squd too?

mystic vigil
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Yep

austere siren
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You've only got 1 line squad and the command squad

mystic vigil
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Yep but I've got 20 choom HSS to shoot down enemy lines units

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And the Veterans that will murder other marines units

austere siren
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One apothecary for veterans and one for the tacticals?

mystic vigil
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Yes

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Both the command squad and the veterans go in the Spartan

unique thicket
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The current DG for HH 2.0 kinda blows my original thoughts for 1.0 out the window.. I'm having to take an entirely new approach and wonder why I built half my units lol

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Can you mix the Vets and Command squad into the same spartan ?

austere siren
spice vortex
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Creeping Death looks amazing. Bit sad that Power Scythes took a hit but they’ll still carve up power armour nicely

austere siren
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It might work, but you will also just lose some scenarios

mystic vigil
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I could drop a HSS volkite squad

mystic vigil
unique thicket
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silly q, what DG units actually have line right now ? (gotta wait until next week for all my books to come through)

unique thicket
austere siren
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Normal stuff: tacticals, despoilers, assault, breachers, any anything a rite of war makes core

mystic vigil
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Deathshrouds are line if they are retinue with standard

austere siren
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True!

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But they're so expensive

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70ppm is a nightmare

unique thicket
austere siren
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But 3 wound termies that need s10 to instant death are just golden tbh

mystic vigil
unique thicket
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oops totally missed that weirdly enough.. thanks >.<

austere siren
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I wrote a list with 6 deathshroud and a paragon blade preator in a spartan at one point for max fluff, then realised it was a 1000 ish point blob that any primarch would take apart like wet paper

mystic vigil
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True they are good against marines but that's it

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@austere siren What would you change in my list ? I think you are right about getting more line, but I don't know what to remove 😩

austere siren
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I'd reckon i'd drop one of the volkite squads or the vets for 2 10 man tacticals with rhinos?

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I'd also challenge the cataphractii centurion and maybe think about Typhus as warlord?

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But typhus's trait sucks here

unique thicket
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I'm thinking DG are better off just focusing on pure firepower with their added mobility

austere siren
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So maybe you save some points by swapping him for a normal preator?

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Also you've gone reaping death but not picked any grenades?

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I guess the units you've picked don't LOVE them

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But they're worth 10 points on the tacticals for sure

mystic vigil
austere siren
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What is the stat on the lance?

mystic vigil
mystic vigil
austere siren
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I guess my other question is: What do you have in this list than can either kill or bog down a primarch?

mystic vigil
austere siren
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You have to think about that in 3k, right?

unique thicket
mystic vigil
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He's way too good, I can't drop him

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And he provides grenades + disordered charges

mystic vigil
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So they strike before most other units

austere siren
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Yeah that's ace with grenades

unique thicket
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not better to have a fist on the tactical sgt?

mystic vigil
mystic vigil
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😨

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I don't know

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Maybe the termie squad can do some stuff

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Or the Predator squad with their 3 shots melta cannon turret

austere siren
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5 cataphractii will make a nice stain to adorn russ or the lion's armour

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Cross that bridge when you come to it haha

mystic vigil
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I don't know how to deal with them really

austere siren
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Yeahhh

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And 'bring your own primarch' is a sucky answer haha

mystic vigil
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Yep

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Maybe throw a melee Leviathan at him and hope for the best

austere siren
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Lemme find my 3k

void gazelle
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I'm not really seeing the point of taking The Reaping unless you really, really want to spam HWS while having other HS options. Especially when Creeping Death has no downside beyond the Siege Breaker tax.

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I think if it didn't cut you off from Deep Strike and movement shenanigans it'd be worth considering.

unique thicket
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Ok how about the following - Change to Creeping Death - instead of having your Volkites in the Troop slots, increase your Cataphractii squad to 10 models (more killy), give the Spartan as a DT for them, frees up one heavy slot to put your Volkite squad in - change yoru second troop choice to 2x 20-man tacticals ?

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so that's 40 tacticals, 10 cata, 10 volkites, Spartan, Predators... then see what points you have left

mystic vigil
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I can't make the Cataphractii command squad 10 models, it's 5 max

unique thicket
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I have to complete rebuild my DG .. I just built 20x Vets and 20x Tact Support... never focused on the reaping before and really wanted to use the Beakies for a different army .. now I am thinking I should just use them for a full reaping list lol

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make them elites?

mystic vigil
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No, as elites they loose WS5

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And are no longer line

unique thicket
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oh I see

austere siren
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this is my 3k currently

unknown.png
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this is like... based on what I own, not my 'ideal' list

unique thicket
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nobody wants to run grave wardens ^^

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what's your ideal list ?

austere siren
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No idea lol

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I kinda wanna run a March of the Ancients list cos it looks fun as fuck

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But it involves using at least one dread some heresy fans would not enjoy

unique thicket
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oh ?

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What's wrong with a good dread? ! :)

austere siren
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A very 'late heresy' gal vorbak dread i use as a 40k demon prince

unique thicket
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ah yeah, I wouldn't want no dirt WB's near my DG Loyalists hehe

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But hey, if you have a nice enough group I am sure they won't mind if you used it as a model to proxy or whatever is needed

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you could make a DG handler holding a chain and just tell them it's a pet!

last saffron
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Death Guard - 3k - Creeping Death

Primarch
Mortarion

HQ
Master of Signals
Siege Breaker Cataphractii, Toxin Bombs
Forge Lord Cataphractii, Thunder Hammer, Chain-Fist, Toxin Bombs

Elite
4 Deathshroud, Melta Bombs
2 Apothecaries, Artificer Armour
Contemptor, Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Chain-Fist, Meltagun

Troops
7 Grave Wardens, 2 Chain-Fists, Toxin Bombs
20 Tactical Marines, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs
20 Tactical Marines, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Leviathan, Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger
10 Heavy Support Squad, Artificer Armour, Lascannons
Predator, Sponson Lascannons, Heavy Conversion Beam, Searchlight, Dozer blade

austere siren
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That's a lot of hqs

last saffron
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the three I can take!

unique thicket
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Interesting, I'm looking at that and wondering what I'd do differently

last saffron
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MoS goes with the HSS to give night sight and BS5. 20 tacs each get an apothecary and one of the catephractii HQ so all of them get FNP and some good invuns

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Deathshroud start with Morty who then leaves and teleports up as soon as he's in good target range

austere siren
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Is the forge lord for babysitting the leviathan?

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Feels like a small amount of tanks to justify it

last saffron
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he'll go with one of the tac squads for tankiness but leviathan can be walking up next to them

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he should have a cyber familiar too just forgot to note it down

unique thicket
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Hmm 900 points in Morti, Predator and Deathshroud ? I wonder if it's viable to change to a Kratos, and a second Leviathan and Contemptor and up the Wardens to 10 ...

last saffron
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Morty is there cos he's my fave and love the idea of him teleporting around carving up fools. Deathshroud I have the models anyway and even if they're not stellar I thought I may as well

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predator is just for Heavy C Beam

austere siren
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Can morty have a deathshroud retinue?

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Oh, he can't teleport if he does

last saffron
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Gotta get this dude on the table

mystic vigil
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I hope the Medusa will be good

unique thicket
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Nice :) I don't own morti .. certainly won't buy one... m Deathshroud aren't exactly GW, so gotta think in plastic terms - was going to convert some Grave Wardens with the Cata's and some Heavy Bolters (thoughts?)

mystic vigil
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A bit different list

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Creeping Death this time

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Less melee oriented, but with solid shooting

unique thicket
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3 contemptors? I like your style

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Not sure I'd run 6 plasma's though

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6x graviton fists maybe :D

mystic vigil
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Graviton Fists are okay against termies

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But my command squad is here to deal with them

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The Contemptors may get tagged in melee, but with 36" range on the plasma, I should see that coming

nimble turtle
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how important is line anyway?
i was planning on making all 40 beakies in the box set to be taccies because i thought line was a big deal. but i see some lists here prioritizing heavy support troops instead?

mystic vigil
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Line is important, without it you can't capture objectives

nimble turtle
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why so few line in your list then?

mystic vigil
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I have 3 total

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If I understand it correctly there is not many objectives

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But you need some line still

nimble turtle
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whats the third line?

mystic vigil
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Command squad

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It has a standard

mystic vigil
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@austere siren What's your opinion on this ?

austere siren
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i think that's a better amount of line!

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I have no idea what the best dread weapons are

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plasma cannons is gonna kill a lot of infantry

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i can't believe the gravi ones are 5" blast

mystic vigil
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Yeah that's sick

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With BS5 and nuncio-vox scatter should be tolerable

austere siren
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your 6 tanks should do anti tank

unique thicket
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I thought the graviton fists would / are useful for anti spartans given that graviton has haywire still I believe ? used to be right for HH 1.0, no idea compared to LasC's in 2.0 though

austere siren
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i still fear for your ability to hold objectives outside of your deployment zone

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270 points would give you 2 bare bones tactical squads and the rhinos

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so drop a fancy 20 man for 2 faster 10 mans

mystic vigil
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I can just kill the enemy line units

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With 6 gravis plasma cannons and 3 Scorpius I think I could snipe line units

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And I don't expect people to run too much of them

mystic vigil
austere siren
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then try to win games on secondaries?

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you have a lot of firepower, definitely

mystic vigil
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I think I can do well on secondaries

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First blood should be doable with my Scorpius on a 10 man unit

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It's will be my first time playing HH, can't wait !

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😄

austere siren
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are you playing on tts?

mystic vigil
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Nope, I'm patiently waiting for my boxes to arrive 🙏

unique thicket
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wish I knew how to sort tts out to set a game up to play - then I could at least have a fighting chance lol

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didn't know HH was setup on there?

last saffron
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I think tts you just find the game, download then go in and basically play as you would on a tabletop. Not sure how you set up the arm though

austere siren
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#tts-chat

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i live in notts which is horus heresy mecca

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so haven't had to learn tts

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but i've used it a lot of play mordheim and whatnot

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it's fine

twilit sun
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I adore TTS

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Wouldn’t have gotten into these games if it didn’t exist

unique thicket
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we could really do with someone giving a bunch of us a TTS presentation on how to get started - that would be awesome :)

twilit sun
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In a few days I can get some links together, smarter people than me have made guides for it

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Dunno if I’m allowed to post them places since they’re outside links though

buoyant crystal
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I play(ed) a lot on TTS but only 40k. Tried to do it with 30k but going from 40k that is basically a game within the game to other versions like 30k or AoS that are very clearly mods to a game, it's hard to get accustomed to it.

twilit sun
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It’s not so different in my experience

buoyant crystal
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Might be I simply haven't gotten a proper introduction to it

cosmic anvil
mystic vigil
cosmic anvil
# mystic vigil Really ? Where ?

From what i can see Cataphractii Command Squad is 125 points base. And then add one more for 35 points plus your thunder hammer (as i quess it's only one of them) is 15 points.

mystic vigil
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Is there other errors you have noticed ?

cosmic anvil
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Was the only thing i did notice, i am doing a similar build as you. But i am use your first draft. But i am dropping the Scorpius for a Arcus.

mystic vigil
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Ok

austere siren
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He looks ready for some krumpin

calm pawn
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Niiice

unique thicket
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oof sweet

austere siren
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The scythe is too big but

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What can you do??

last saffron
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Is that modified from the box praetor?

calm pawn
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Yep

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Thats the axe praetor

last saffron
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nice

nimble turtle
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Can twinlinked heavy flamers be turned into alchem variant

buoyant crystal
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I'd say yes

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It's just a heavy flamer with the twin linked rule

nimble turtle
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Yeah thats my thought

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But its not in the alchem table

buoyant crystal
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Not exactly tactics, but since this is evolving into the general DG chat, here's what I've managed to get done today. Built and at the very least primed for a game on Tuesday. Will try and get the Leviathan painted up tomorrow

unknown.png
void gazelle
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Wraithbone?

buoyant crystal
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Aye

void gazelle
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Expecting it to go out of stock for about a year when the Mortarion Grime shade releases.

calm pawn
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yeah

unique thicket
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It certainly makes it a bit easier for those who really aren't confident with all the other grimey ways we can be painted

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Nice start there TGoC :)

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What's everybody's opinion on doing a full Dreadnought list with DG ? I'm hoping they will make boxnoughts available in the PDF, though at this point I am skeptical.

spice vortex
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Not considered it but I plan on a double Contemptor build for 2500 pts and will probably want a Levi at some point. Is there such a thing as too many Dreads?

unique thicket
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You had best not ask me ;)

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I can't claim to have them painted, but I might own a couple ^^

rapid compass
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Just as a starting point with what I have, how's this?

Delegatus (budget HQ for master of legion)

2x20 tac marines. Chain bayonets. Artificer armour and scythe on sergeant. Vox and augury if points allow. Rad grenades and toxin bombs?.

2x apothecary to go with tacs ^

2 x contemptor with kheres and chainfists

2x laser rapier

Whirlwind scorpius

7x missile launcher HSS

I think this is around 1600 points ... so maybe add either another 7 ML HSS? Or 5 lascannons with a bit of budgeting elsewhere in the list?.

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Reaping initially, tho will change a lot for creeping death rite of war

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This is for 1750 points, sorry

unique thicket
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I think the current thinking is that LasC is likely more zap for your needs unless you expect to face flyers... gravs in the dccw chainfists?

rapid compass
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Admittedly I'd not thought about weapons in the fists, good shout.

I adore the idea of 10 las but it feels very very cheesy.

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People not hot on missile launchers? With sunder from a siege breaker they seem quite useful to me, with the ability to delete power armour too?

unique thicket
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don't have the rulebook yet so in the dark right now. I guess it depends on what your meta ends up with. Since the arms come with the kit, you could always magnetise them and just blu-tac the shoulders for now until you're 100% confident of your choice

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I think the ML's look great and I might end up with a squad myself (though I do prefer the underslung versions, the shoulder fits perfect when comparing the original RTB01 beakies)

rapid compass
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Agreed, the underslung ones look brilliant. Especially on mkiii armour

calm pawn
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I like ML for versalitility, but if your wanting infantry killing Volkite Culverins cost the same, and for tank hunting Lascannons are only 5 points more per

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The drop in cost for Lascannons really hurt ML

rapid compass
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Soooooo, does this mean ..

Take 10 las, call it a day

Or

Take 5 las, 5 ML, 5 volkite?

unique thicket
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my plan is to make a squad each of lasc and volk, and likely a tactical support squad full of volkite too

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Option 1) if you're playing Creeping Death and want to be sure to stop anti armour ... option 2) if you are playing Reaping and you want options .. but the units may die fast being so small

rapid compass
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Have las been released yet?

unique thicket
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not yet or I'd have two boxes on order ^^

rapid compass
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Lol

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Good point. Creeping Death it's 10x las, then ... leviathan and something like 2x scorpius?

Reaping is likely 10 volkite, 7 ML, 7 las

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HSS add up quick but I really rate them. With interceptor and the return fire reaction they can really rack up kills.

calm pawn
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Mmhmm

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But if you are going Infantry heavy they are your best bet for heavy weapons

rapid compass
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Imagine 10x las annihilating a contemptor that tried to poke them as it comes forward lol

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In creeping death with the standard 3 HS slots, 10x las feels a solid choice

calm pawn
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Las are neat, but for DG I would probably go for MMs as I personally see them as fitting more. Only issues at that point is getting them up the field

rapid compass
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That lack of DS in the reaping is huge

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Tho as I say, reactive fire and interceptor when you have so much ridiculous firepower is crazy

calm pawn
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It hurts, but frankly I feel like with Creeping Death being so good I don't see Reaping run often

rapid compass
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What HS choices would you take in a Creeping Death list?

calm pawn
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Scorpius Whirlwinds and HSS personally

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Levis as well

rapid compass
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That's the winning trio I think. Pair of whirlwinds is brutal

calm pawn
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Yep

rapid compass
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4+ rend when stationary, crazy

calm pawn
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Vindis would be fun, but I will have to test how they work

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Don't also forget pining

rapid compass
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The thing I fear for vindis is they have to get so close and exposed, and are so susceptible to weapon destroyed or immobilized results

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Only 3" blast. But S12 sunder brutal is a vehicle killer

unique thicket
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If they do a plastic scorpius, then yeah I'd grab me some, but for me it'll be Kratos, Levis, potentially HSS and in the past I'd be opting for the Sicaran but I understand they aren't so good this time around

calm pawn
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Thats the nice thing about Creeping Death, it doesn't really impact DG gameplay as we can build whatever kind of list we want

rapid compass
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Scorpius is tasty. Twin linked S8 AP2 shots has a lot of uses

calm pawn
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Indeed they are. So many tasty board control options

unique thicket
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I was thinking for Levi's to run one each of the siegeclaw+stormcannon and claw+meltalance both with choom.. that way that can at least shoot something whilst they get into melee range... or for creeping death maybe one with double stormcannon for sitting in deployment zone ? (pretty expensive to sit back though)

calm pawn
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Either could work well

buoyant crystal
timid hollow
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My plan for Reaping was to take 2 missile squads and 1 lascannon squad as troops. If I'm not stuck against Salamanders I can swap the missiles for Volkite Culverins if I feel

buoyant crystal
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Thinking I'll be bringing this list tomorrow against some Imperial Fists.

Creeping Death (da best)
140 - Tartaros Praetor, Reaper's Visage, Thunder hammer, Toxin bombs, Alchem combi-flamer
505 - Retinue: 7x Deathshroud Terminators, Legion standard + powersword
135 - Tartaros Centurion, Primus Medicae, Alchem combi-flamer, Power fist
130 - Legion Centurion, Siege Breaker, Power fist
55 - Apothecary, Artificer armour
185 - Contemptor, Gravis melta cannon, Alchem heavy flamer
185 - Contemptor, Gravis melta cannon, Alchem heavy flamer
240 - 20x Tactical squad, Power scythe, Augury scanner, Toxin bombs, Artificer armour
240 - 20x Tactical squad, Power scythe, Augury scanner, Toxin bombs, Artificer armour
276 - 8x Tactical support squad, Meltaguns, Artificer armour, Rhino
160 - 5x Heavy support squad, Plasma cannons, Artificer armour
300 - Leviathan, Storm cannon, Phosphex discharger
445 - Spartan, Flare shield, Twin-linked lascannon, Multi-melta, Laser destroyers
Total: 2996

Praetor & Co. are of course going in the Spartan, cruising up the field to where they're needed (where ever there's a large amount of Sv3+ models and an objective). Apothecary will be with either Tactical squad. Would have liked to take 2 but I had to butcher one to make my Medicae. Your sacrifice will not be forgotten pepe_salute
Siege Breaker will be partying with the meltaguns, giving them Sunder so they can really go to town on any vehicle they might face.
Dreadnoughts will be doing Dreadnought things, the Leviathan working the job of Dreadnought hunter.

Any input is appreciated.

rapid compass
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I'm not great at math hammer but missiles feel solid to me. ID toughness 4, delete power armour, frag rounds have pinning?, can viably hurt AV12 and 13 fairly reliably etc

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I'll have a read of that 'cakes, gimme a few moments

austere siren
rapid compass
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That's true, tho I feel a group of 7 is nice to have around? For the points. Popping open rhinos, mopping up power armour that finds itself isolated etc. Tho I guess volkite are the Same price with immense volume of fire? Are plasma cannons still a small blast template?

buoyant crystal
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Yes, plasmas are still small blast

austere siren
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Dreadnought plasma cannons are large blast though

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Yeah they're great, i run them. You just can't confuse them for dedicated anti tank!

rapid compass
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@buoyant crystal Looks good to me. Admittedly I've not even considered plasma cannons in 2.0 so I can't comment there really. One thing I'd ask is, are you confident in 7 deathshroud ? They're a lotta points but likely worth it if you have a solid plan for them

buoyant crystal
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It's my first time using them. Built and primed them yesterday. But with 3 wounds, needing S10 to ID them, 5+++ from Medicae and some of the best anti-power armour melee we have available I'm pretty confident. Also, they're Line, so they'll likely be scoring me some points as well

rapid compass
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So this is a quandary .. do I take both volkite and ML in a reaping list?

rapid compass
buoyant crystal
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I used a Reaping list last week with 5 Volkites and 5 Plasma cannons. That worked really well, the Volkites able to threaten stuff far away. If I were to swap either for ML it'd actually be the Volkites. I've grown pretty fond of my Plasma cannons, they're amazing at taking out Tacticals and stupid Artificer sergeants

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People tend to clump up their support squads as well so they can hide more easily. As DG we can of course move and shoot, so if you can get your Plasmas into LOS of a support squad you can generally wipe it out with a single volley

buoyant crystal
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Still might be too many for the points

rapid compass
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It stodd out to me just cause I'm programmes to field or see terminators in groups of 5 or 10. I agree 10 is too much at that points level. 5 you might get away with but I'm.thinking 7 is s good number as it gives you some ablative wounds to make sure you have at least 5 swinging in combat

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Random thought, would you consider typhon over a regular praetor?

buoyant crystal
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I probably would but I'm not a huge fan of using named characters as I like to create my own narrative

rapid compass
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Same, feels a bit odd taking the same thing as everyone else? Odd as that sounds

buoyant crystal
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In my case it's likely a relic of my time in the Warhammer Fantasy tournament scene where named characters generally weren't allowed. Also always felt weird using them in older editions of 40k. It's only with 9th edition I've started using them.

timid hollow
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I played a game Saturday and rad grenades with chain bayonets was mint. Caused enough armour saves to keep winning me combats

rapid compass
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I know some people aren't a fan of it but I'm investing in my tacs a little. Squads of 20, chain bayonets, apothecary, rad grenades, maybe toxin bombs. You fury of the legion on overwatch, then you're getting around 20 attacks at S5 vs T3 so wounding on 2s with shred. That's definitely enough to force some saves. Then sergeant with artificer and scythe is enough to stand his ground against some power armour.

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Admittedly you're screwed if you get assaulted by a ws5 i5 unit but they're just tac marines, you can't expect everything from them

buoyant crystal
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Yes I can and I do. 20 Cataphractii Terminators barrelling their way towards my Tacticals? I expect them to stand their ground for damned eternity and come out on top. Anything else is unacceptable for Death Guard marines

timid hollow
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I invest in my tacticals and they've never let me down

buoyant crystal
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Same

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Well, somewhat invest.

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Still haven't given them bayonets

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That didn't stop them from smacking down a unit of Cataphractii last week

timid hollow
#

20 men, 14 chain bayonets, power scythe, hand flamer, Apothecary

#

Oh and Vexilla

#

That's already saved them from death

#

If I need to save points it's just the same but I cut the 5 cannon fodder dudes

rapid compass
#

Music to my ears. I'm investing in my tacs so glad they get work done

timid hollow
#

Well it's a bit of dice luck, but I take 3 of that loadout always and 1 always gets something done

rapid compass
#

Under the creeping death rite of war our entire DZ is difficult and dangerous terrain. These rules obviously affect movement and charging, but what about piling in/consolidation?

timid hollow
#

Doesn't affect those

#

That's just always move your initiative value to my memory

rapid compass
#

I just checked and the way I'm reading it says pile ins are affected by dangerous terrain?

#

Admittedly it's the p3 document, but page 184?

timid hollow
#

I can check my rulebook when I get back from work

#

In a couple of hours or so

rapid compass
#

It says not slowed by difficult terrain but "dangerous terrain tests are triggered as normal"

#

Also, with toxin bombs being roll a d6 and on a 1 you take a wound .. does this stack with dangerous terrain? As in, 2d6 for each model?

timid hollow
#

Presumably yes because they're different rules and damage sources

buoyant crystal
#

Pile in / consolidate are affected by Dangerous, yes

#

And yes, they stack

#

Super strong combo

#

which is why I always take toxin bombs

timid hollow
#

Need me some god damn toxin bombs

#

My tacticals are invested but 10 points more won't hurt

buoyant crystal
#

Like oh no, you lost a third of your wounds charging me. How sad

timid hollow
#

I'm just using the 10 points I didn't spend on Artificer

rapid compass
#

Christ, charging DG in creeping death rite of war is bonkers

buoyant crystal
#

Aye

#

My WE pal isn't so fond of it lol

timid hollow
#

I need to play Creeping next

#

I have 10 Grave Wardens and a Spartan that need use

buoyant crystal
#

I need to get myself some Grave Wardens

timid hollow
#

I had 5 but rarely used them because the blasts were so not fun

buoyant crystal
#

Wonder if at 3k points taking both 10 Wardens and a group of Deathshrouds is too much? Super expensive for very few models

timid hollow
#

Now they're assault 4 I can take 10 and feel OK

#

Yeah I'd say one or the other

buoyant crystal
#

Assault 4 and a flamer template

rapid compass
#

Wardens are excellent. Horrible to charge. Ignores cover weapons too, so it stops your opponent getting the shrouded save when they're in your DZ

buoyant crystal
#

Bring it on

timid hollow
#

I keep forgetting how damn nice DG are now

rapid compass
#

They're utterly savage in some regardc

timid hollow
#

6 years of payoff

rapid compass
#

Typhon is a monster too. IDing terminators, buffing anything fleshbane and poisoned

timid hollow
#

Oh yeah so Wardens can now just overwatch their guns at full BS and wall of desth the templates?

rapid compass
#

Yep. Firing protocols so they can do both

timid hollow
#

That's mental

#

Can the sergeant get Toxin Bombs

rapid compass
#

Yep

#

Any character with the traitor type

timid hollow
#

200% Revengeance

rapid compass
#

I can see why rad grenades were largely restricted to the reaping

#

Tho there are a couple of sources outside of that

#

I feel creeping death is a lot better than the reaping, the more I think about it. Like, a LOT better.

timid hollow
#

The rad grenades performance alone last game was enough to make me like the Reaping

rapid compass
#

Difficult terrain, toxin bombs etc, are brutal no matter what you take

#

Rad grenades are great

timid hollow
#

The image is unrelated I just imagine the Grave Wardens looking like that

rapid compass
#

Typhon has them

buoyant crystal
rapid compass
#

True, it's passive but powerful. Just innately benefits you with. Obviously you can list build and play to make more use of it, tho

#

Keep kiting and speed bumping to force more and more tests

timid hollow
#

With my list build revolving around HSS though the Reaping helps me create a very solid list

#

Definitely more passive, but a boon I like a lot

#

Both work I'd say, but Creeping has more aggression to it

rapid compass
#

Support squads of alchem flamers to dump wounds on people and make overwatch even worse

#

I love both tbf. I love the reaping for the sheer bonkers nature of it. Lascannons, missiles, meltas etc just firing constantly via interceptor, reactions, overwatch etc

#

People won't care shoot you cause they get 10 missiles fired back in return lol.

timid hollow
#

Honestly I will get 2 regular flamer squads and a melta squad in rhinos just for the Creeping Death

#

Different play but still great vibes

rapid compass
#

Tbf there's a lot of crossover for list building no matter which rite you pick

void gazelle
#

Conceptually I like The Reaping, but not giving Line to HWS is where it falls flat for me. Especially when Creeping Death frees up Grave Wardens from HS into Troops, letting you slot another HWS in anyway.

#

It's funny how Creeping Death went from one of the worst RoWs in the game to one of the best in 2.0 though.

timid hollow
#

I like how the Reaping works still tbf, with my tactical blob list build, Line never really bothered me

#

I can understand the point though

void gazelle
#

I think Creeping Death still does Tactical Blobs better, because of Shrouded and hurting your opponent as they move down the map towards you.

#

Not that I think Reaping is bad, it's absolutely useable, it's just a rare situation where I see it being used unless over CD you want to spam HWS, at the risk of being a broken record.

timid hollow
#

Oh no yeah it probably does, I just mean I won't disregard Reaping because of Creeping Death

#

I like to swap rites around to avoid boredom and be narrative and with these two it's not difficult really

rapid compass
#

Both are great and thematic, and both are viable which is great

timid hollow
#

One just had a big glow up haha

#

Be carful of who you make fun of in 1st edition

trim echo
#

Here is what I’m planning to do with The Reaping:

Calas Typhon
The Reaping

Centurion
Siege Breaker
Powe fist

Centurion
Master of Signals

Elites
Rapier
Add 2 Rapiers
Quad launchers
Shatter shells
Phosphex shells

Apothecarion Detachment
Add 3 Apothecaries
Troops
Tactical Squad
Sergeant
Power scythe
Rad grenades
Artificer armour
Melta bombs
Toxin bombs
Squad
Add 5 marines
9 chainswords

Tactical Squad
Sergeant
Power scythe
Rad grenades
Artificer armour
Melta bombs
Toxin bombs
Squad
Add 5 marines
9 chainswords

Heavy Support Squad
Sergeant
Toxin bombs
Squad
Add 5 marines
Missile launchers
Augury scanner

Heavy Support Squad
Sergeant
Toxin bombs
Squad
Add 5 marines
Volkite Culverins

Heavy Support
Land Raider Squadron
Proteus
Additional Proteus

Grave Wardens
Chem Master
Power Scythe
Squad
Add 2 wardens
2 Chain fists

Spartan

buoyant crystal
#

Would it be possible for you to condense that a bit? lol

trim echo
#

I may just delete… copy from excel on mobile and to me it’s hard to read with 0 spacing

rapid compass
#

Looks solid. One concern I have is 5 man HSS ... are these resilient enough to get stuff done? I may be wrong, just a thought?

buoyant crystal
#

In my experience, yea, especially with ML / Volkites since they have some pretty extreme range

#

They can just sit back and relax

#

Especially as DG since we can start out of LOS and then move up and still shoot our heavy weapons

rapid compass
#

My god, I'd not made those mental links but yep, solid point. Also keeps the points lower.

#

There's some math hammer in there I'm sure about 2x5 vs 1x10 with the sergeant using his cognis signum for bs5

timid hollow
#

1x10 is cheaper

rapid compass
#

Yep good point

last saffron
#

I've gone for 10 HSS with Lascannons in my 3k list so they can be babysat by a MoS...

rapid compass
#

I'm 100% taking 10 las in my creeping death list

#

Hitting on 2s, sunder

#

I think the reaping is where I'd take more squads, ranging 5 to 7 in size

timid hollow
#

I have 2x10 missile squads and 1x10 lascannon squad atm

rapid compass
#

Savage. Love it

last saffron
timid hollow
#

Or a Techmarine

rapid compass
#

Ah I was going by p3 rules, has that been changed then?

#

(Or did I get it wrong back then too)

buoyant crystal
#

He can take it in P3

last saffron
trim echo
#

Yeah, no cognis signum for sergeant in the rulebook

rapid compass
#

Ok, so it's 10 shots at bs4, notb9 shots at bs5 now

#

Is it worth adding tech marines to 20 man tac blobs?

trim echo
#

Hence why I used a MoS in my list (putting him with the volkite squad)

buoyant crystal
#

Hmm. Wonder why they removed that

rapid compass
#

9 lascannon shots hitting on 2s with sunder would be bonkers

buoyant crystal
#

Well you can still do it

#

It's just slightly more expensive

rapid compass
#

Truevtruev

trim echo
buoyant crystal
#

Nom nom

rapid compass
#

Yeah the cost, and it takes more FoC slots

#

So you can do it, but you pay

buoyant crystal
#

Yea, at least 70 points for a Techmarine with Cognis

#

Wonder if it's even worth it at that point

rapid compass
#

Gut*

buoyant crystal
#

You can get almost 3 dudes with Lascannons for that price

rapid compass
#

I see people eager to add tech marines in general, why is that?

timid hollow
#

For the Cognis Signum

buoyant crystal
#

Well they can repair vehicles/dreads quite effectively

timid hollow
#

Get those BS5 shots back

buoyant crystal
#

But yea, the Cognis is probably it

last saffron
#

I prefer MoS - you get a lot more bang for your buck

buoyant crystal
#

Just.. say you boost 10 dudes. That's an average of 1,7 extra hits. For 70 points. For 75 points you can pick up 3 more dudes with Lascannons, averaging 2 hits. The Techmarine is 41 points per extra hit, the 3 dudes are 37,5 points per hit.
The Techmarine also loses value the more dudes in his unit die while each Lascannon is independent when it comes to value. So unless you're already maxed out on Lascannons you're generally better off just taking more over taking a Techmarine

#

The only thing is of course that taking a new unit of HSS is 25 points more expensive than taking extra. So possibly when you already have multiple maxed out units of Lascannons it could be worth considering the Techmarine

#

but other than that I'd say just take more dudes

last saffron
#

don't forget if you take more than 1 squad you need to pay any artificer armour/augury scanner taxes twice

buoyant crystal
#

Both of those aren't technically needed but sure. It's close when it comes to value but just the fact that you get more models on the table is enough for me.

last saffron
#

If you don't take an AS on a HSS you're shooting yourself in the foot for night fighting

#

and you lose out on free interceptor reactions

#

and you're inviting infiltrators to chareg asap

rapid compass
#

Augury is mandatory imo. Nothing ruins a terminator deep strike better than a free volley of lascannons lol.

mystic vigil
#

So, I realised that you can take Dark Angels Eskaton Imperative RoW as an allied detachment

#

Ladies and gentlemen

#

Let me introduce you to my updated list

#

Maximum War Crimes Edition

buoyant crystal
#

YES

#

The dream

#

I'd so do this if I had some Dark Angels

#

Hell, I might just paint up a squad of DA and a Praetor for the sake of doing this

mystic vigil
#

The dream indeed. Interemptors are probably in my top 3 favourite models in the whole range. But Dark Angels as whole ? eeeh not so much. With this RoW, I can finally play some

trim echo
#

I realized the list I posted earlier I had for some reason over pointed the tactical squads by 50 points a piece, so I moved some things around and added a lascannon squad 🎉

mystic vigil
#

Good choice 👍

#

With Creeping Death + Eskaton Imperative, the whole map is lava for your enemy lol

#

And he has to roll for dangerous terrain test every time he moves a vehicle. On a 1, he looses one hull point and the vehicle is immobilised !

#

Jump pack and bike units are in big shit, as everytime they move or charge, they must roll for dangerous terrain for every model and suffer one AP2 wound on a roll of 1

austere siren
#

plasma flamers is just so death guard

mystic vigil
#

I like it a lot personnaly. Massively hampers melee armies, that will walk 2" slower, must reduce 2" from charge rolls and get -1 initiative

#

The only drawback is that if at the end of the game, there are enemy units in his deployment zone that are not falling back or pinned, he gets +D3 victory points. Could cost me the game

austere siren
#

i don't think it matters if it's good or not cos it's really cool

mystic vigil
#

Yeah I love it, very thematic

#

Maximum annihilation. The map is so fucked that everyone suffers from it

rapid compass
mystic vigil
rapid compass
#

HSS sergeants: artificer armour - yay or nay?

mystic vigil
#

Yes, always yes

rapid compass
mystic vigil
#

With the grenade harness you don't suffer from it

#

And frag grenades too yeah !

rapid compass
#

So against marines it's nullified?

mystic vigil
#

So the -1 to initiative will never apply against marines lol

rapid compass
#

The initiative part I mean

mystic vigil
#

Yes

rapid compass
#

Ah lol.

mystic vigil
#

You still get -2" to charge tho

rapid compass
#

I need to convert a siege breaker, tho all.i have is an unused mkiii kit and left over bits from the mk6 kits

#

And general bits n bobs obviously

#

Actually I have the artificer armour praetor, where I cut his hand resting on the sword handle off and replaced it with a pointing hand, then cut his left arm off -yet to be replaced. Give him a left arm and swap the bare head with a mkiii helmet and he'd look the part

buoyant crystal
timid hollow
#

I'm sorry. I just came back to witness an entire double rite warcrime

#

That's abuse

buoyant crystal
#

The list is automatically Traitor, so it's not a warcrime, it's a feature

timid hollow
#

So let me confirm:

  • My deployment zone is difficult and dangerous terrain
  • No man's land is difficult terrain
  • All terrain features are dangerous terrain
mystic vigil
#

All dangerous terrain are considered as difficult terrain too according to the core rules

#

But yes

#

And you get to place two extra marker

#

That makes the zone within 6" dangerous terrain

timid hollow
#

That's horrible

#

I love it

#

Well, I do like having friends but I like that slightly more

buoyant crystal
#

It's very thematic. Just like how the planet you do this on can never be populated again, you can only play the list once before you run out of friends

timid hollow
#

Only thing you have to justify is the traitor Dark Angels

#

without the unfunny memes

mystic vigil
#

It's actually easy in my case

buoyant crystal
#

That's easy. Fuck big E

mystic vigil
#

As I run Calas Typhon

#

Luther and Calas Typhon were bro and fought together

#

They even have some story time in a book but I don't know the details

timid hollow
#

You think Luther would divert him some forces?

mystic vigil
#

Luther could have offered him a Dreadwing detachment as a gift for his services

timid hollow
#

And they wouldn't question things when they're suddenly toasting Imperial Fists?

rapid compass
#

I'm not sure no man's land is difficult terrain is it?

buoyant crystal
#

Nah, Typhon convinced them at it's ok

buoyant crystal
#

So no man's land

rapid compass
#

Does it really??.

#

I read it earlier and didn't infer that, I need to read again

buoyant crystal
rapid compass
#

Ah yes I'm with you, it's the DA rite mixed with creeping death

timid hollow
#

Is 2.5k like the average small game size?

buoyant crystal
#

3k is normal size so I'd say "small" is about 1500 points.

timid hollow
#

Oh ok

#

My group usually played 2.5k in 1st edition and I think I have an old player habit of making 2k lists from 6th edition

rapid compass
#

For creeping death, how does 10 lascannon hss, 2xwhirlwinds, and 1 leviathan sound?

buoyant crystal
#

Sounds good to me

rapid compass
#

Couple of quad mortars in elites for more pie plates. Couple of contemptors with kheres for some more firepower

#

So what's people's thoughts on leviathan loadouts? Throw it at the enemy with short ranged stuff, or is it a resilient fire platform?

buoyant crystal
#

Either or really. I'll be using one with claw, storm cannon and phosphex tomorrow, mostly for Dread hunting

rapid compass
#

Are they T8 8 wounds?

buoyant crystal
#

T8 7 wounds

rapid compass
#

Christ they're tough aren't they

buoyant crystal
#

Yup

#

Thinking about buying a couple more and I haven't even played with the one I have. Visually they're great and rules aren't too bad

rapid compass
#

They're bonkers but I do worry about their cost, points wise

#

Then again, they're highly likely to make their points back

buoyant crystal
#

They're very beefy, that's for sure. I think a good tank hunter with drill and melta lance could be something

#

I'm not entirely sold on having one as a firing platform as their weapons are quite low range

rapid compass
#

That's true

buoyant crystal
#

For that I'd look to Deredeo or Contemptor

rapid compass
#

And with their resilience they should be in the thick of it

buoyant crystal
#

Or hell, Rapiers

rapid compass
#

24" kill everything circle

#

I'm taking 2 laser rapiers in my list

#

4 shots, twin linked, sunder

buoyant crystal
#

My Rapiers will be equipped with Phosphex Quad Launchers or I'm not bringing them lol

timid hollow
#

In Creeping Death, would 1x10 lascannon and 1x10 missile squad still be an alright take?

buoyant crystal
#

Sure

#

You can't really go wrong with HSS as DG

#

Almost no matter the Rite

timid hollow
#

Or maybe Lascannons and Culverins

last saffron
mystic vigil
last saffron
#

oh nice

rapid compass
#

3 scorpius. Gnarly

mystic vigil
#

Yeah, I love the models and it fits DG perfeclty

#

And these S8 rending 4+ large blast

#

yummy

timid hollow
#

My local club is doing a Heresy weekender in November. Can't wait to bring Morty and kill dreadnoughts

austere siren
#

Double rite of war is horrible

austere siren
#

I think my Spartan is going to be a Typhon

#

I can't wait

calm pawn
#

the big boom

austere siren
#

Also, how do you get the cogis signum now?

trim echo
#

My latest revamp of the list

IMG_6424.png
austere siren
#

that's feels like too many apothecaries

#

surely they're not that goo

calm pawn
#

I'm curious why chainswords over bayonets or chain bayonets

#

Seems like alot of points on just a ten man squad

austere siren
#

oh wait those are only 10 man squads?

calm pawn
#

Yep

mystic vigil
#

Phosphex carrier are bad imo. The range is incredibly small and it's way too expensive 😦

#

And they shoot only one time now

#

They got nerfed extremely hard. They used to have 4 shots at 36" range

calm pawn
#

Drop the chainswords and you could afford another ten man squad for cheap mobile objective holders

mystic vigil
#

Why 2 LR and a Spartan ?

#

Spartan should have flare shield

trim echo
#

The tactical squads go in the land raiders and the grave wardens go in the spartan with Typhon

#

There is an apothecary for each Troops squad

calm pawn
#

I see I see. Curious to hear how it works out in play.

trim echo
#

Hadn’t caught the phosphex nerf, thanks for the heads up on that 👍

#

Dropping phosphex, picked up a flare shield for the Spartan, 15 points left to play with

rapid compass
#

Are you taking artificer armour on your HSS sergeants?

trim echo
#

I haven’t planned to

#

Just to clarify, the Siege Breaker will go with the missile squad and the Master of Signals will go with the lascannon squad

#

Could drop the rapiers altogether…

#

That would give me the points to increase all the HSS’s to 10 and give the HSS sergeants artificer armour

#

And Toxin bombs I guess 🤷🏻‍♂️

rapid compass
#

Personally I wouldn't put the toxin bombs on the HSS squads, but artificer armour is a good blocker against AP3 stuff.

mystic vigil
#

Siege Breaker would be wasted in HSS squad

#

He has a Consul profile, he's good at fighting

#

And he can throw Phospex bombs

rapid compass
#

Remind me guys, ordnance weapons - what's their rules in terms of offense, if any? (I remember the rules for when they can and can't fire).

mystic vigil
#

I would give him Terminator armor and make him join the Calas Typhon squad at least

#

Oh I get it you want to give Sunder to the missiles

#

I guess it's an option

trim echo
mystic vigil
#

It's not worth it then imo

rapid compass
#

In my mind the siege breaker goes with the missiles for sunder, tho admittedly I've not looked at him or his wargear beyond that rule

mystic vigil
#

I would just get a Lascannon HSS squad instead

trim echo
#

Already got one

rapid compass
#

In the reaping it feels a tasty way of having a bit more punch

#

So is he decent in melee then?

mystic vigil
#

It doesn't hurt to get more than one Lascannon squad, they are the best anti tank weapon and ID termies

mystic vigil
#

If you kit him correclty

rapid compass
#

Good shout, I'll look into it

trim echo
#

I gave mine a power fist 🤷🏻‍♂️. It may be wasteful but I liked the flexibility of sunder (flak) missiles. I think this may take some experimentation

mystic vigil
#

I gave mine a TH, he will join a TH Cataphractii Command Squad with Calas Typhon to hunt termies

rapid compass
#

What does ordnance do in terms of offensive output? Was it 2d6 pick the highest for av penetration?

last saffron
trim echo
#

Why’s that?

last saffron
#

All you're getting is 5+FNP

#

for 45pts

#

in a 10 man squad it's gonna save what 3-4 marines maybe?

#

just take 4 more marines in each squad for 40pts

#

get more shots and attacks

trim echo
#

Then they can’t fit in their land raider

last saffron
#

How many pts is a landraider?

trim echo
#

220 for the first land raider, 205 for the second one

#

Because of how squadrons work

last saffron
#

Id question why you want tac marines in land raiders in the first place

#

seems vary expensive way to transport a small and fairly fragile squad that can't dish out that much pain

#

drop the LR for Rhinos and take more bodies

trim echo
#

Because it’s an assault vehicle, and they have rad grenades and chainswords and a power scythe. They’re there to be aggressive

last saffron
#

Take despoilers instead?

trim echo
#

And you still have a land raider after they get out

last saffron
#

and you aren't going to do much with normal marines with chainswords assaulting in 10 man squads with an apothecary

buoyant crystal
#

That really is just you paying 5ppm too much for a Despoiler squad lol

last saffron
#

30 attacks, 15 hit, maybe 10 wounds... 3 dead normal marines unless they have someone with artificer armour

trim echo
#

We’re going to have to agree to disagree on this part 🤷🏻‍♂️

last saffron
#

if you want to assault take veterans with power weapons or terminators

#

I mean, it's objectively bad

#

at least swap the tacticals for despoilers and save yourself 100 pts

trim echo
#

Vets don’t score, despoilers don’t have bolters

last saffron
#

you're assaulting

#

you don't want bolters

trim echo
#

I want options

mystic vigil
#

Tacticals, even with Chainswords are garbage in melee

#

Do the maths

last saffron
#

you're taking the lowest possible option for both melee and shooting

#

and wanting it to be viable

#

and sticking it in some of the best transports

mystic vigil
#

Tacticals are here for scoring

#

Not for damage

#

At least against marines

#

You want dedicated units to deal damage

last saffron
#

if you try to cover all bases with a very cheap option you'll end up doing nothing well and wondering why you lose

#

If you do landraider, commit and have them with good assault options. If you want flexibility take rhinos with tacticals or despoilers in greater numbers

trim echo
#

They worked fine in 1.0, I don’t think 2.0 is magically going to trash them

spice vortex
#

Slightly off tactics…. Got the old MkIII DG Legion torsos for my Poisoners. Would they look odd on MkIV legs? I’d prefer to put them on despoiler bodies but can’t afford 10 of them

calm pawn
#

Not at all

last saffron
#

but don't waste a 45 pt apothecary on a 10 man squad of the most basic troops you have, and your HSS I don't think need them either

calm pawn
mystic vigil
#

If you want melee units

#

Take vets

#

WS5, 2 wounds, 1 more attack. With a power weapon (like power maul, +S2 so they instant death marines in melee with rad grenades, and AP3 so no saves for marines) they are only 23 ppm

#

That's a unit worth putting in LR

#

They will murder anything without AP2 saves

rapid compass
#

I'm a big believer in tac squads and I believe they're a great investment ... but they're for holding objectives and bogging down more expensive units once your opponent is in your lines. They're really not for throwing out in an assault, especially via an expensive transport that's reaaaaaally for terminators and HQs let's be honest

#

I get it, they sound great with +1S, shred, rad grenades etc ... but the moment they meet ws5 and/or i5 stuff they'll drop en masse

mystic vigil
#

Look at the damage difference

#

10 Tacticals 15 ppm (without upgrades)

#

10 Vets 23 ppm (without upgrades)

trim echo
#

So if I switch them for vets then I have no scoring units 🤔

mystic vigil
#

And the Vets are instant deaths against T4

mystic vigil
rapid compass
#

Well you'd have to take both generally, but vets are troops in the reaping rite of war

#

Tho they don't get line I don't think,

trim echo
#

Being troops doesn’t confer line

#

There’s not room for both

mystic vigil
#

There is

#

Tacticals are cheap if you keep them cheap

buoyant crystal
#

There are plenty of Troop slots

#

Plenty of room

last saffron
#

you've spent 250 on 5 apothecaries

trim echo
#

There aren’t enough points

last saffron
#

can get 2.5 tac units for that

mystic vigil
#

I would get 2*20 Tacticals

#

With apothecaries for the 4+++ on objectives

#

Solid bricks

#

But they don't need LR

#

So save points here

#

You can take a Vet melee squad

#

With apothecary

#

To hunt other marines

rapid compass
#

2x15 or 20 tacs to sit on objectives. 2x vet squads in rhinos. You've only used 4 of 6 troops slots never mind rest of FoC

mystic vigil
#

A Proteus Carrier LR is a good idea for them, as it's an assault vehicle

last saffron
# trim echo My latest revamp of the list

Drop the Siege Breaker. Drop one of the HSS and bump both others up to 10 ppl. Drop 3 apothecaries. Bump the tacticals to 20 per unit. Drop a land raider and get terminator/veteran squad to go in the remaining one. Done

trim echo
#

I’m out. This isn’t even my list anymore and y’all have taken the fun out of the theorycrafting 👋

last saffron
#

😆

rapid compass
#

Come on man, people are just trying to help

last saffron
#

Don't be mad, hatter

rapid compass
#

I'm wrong all.the time in this chat lol.

last saffron
#

your theorycrafting imput has been 'I need enough line' when all you had before were 20 tacticals you intended to charge into melee (i.e. die) and 'the most basic troops without powerweapons in squads of 10 will do fine in melee'. If you don't want honest talk about tactics and can't listen to feedback then don't post in the first place? Or simply say 'yeah you might be right but I wanna do it like this'. It's just a game!

mystic vigil
trim echo
#

At this point y’all have told me to drop everything except Typhon, Grave Wardens, Spartan, and lascannon squad and it’s more frustrating than helpful. Sorry I posted

mystic vigil
#

No

#

Tacticals are fine

#

But just not with chainswords

last saffron
#

Just cos we say something doesn't mean you have to do it lol. There's been a few suggestions - take what you like and leave what you don't.

calm pawn
#

I say let MadHatter run the list and then tweak accordingly

last saffron
#

He can do what he wants, but the thread is a tactics/theorycraft thread. You have to expect some feedback when you post here and then have a discussion. You wanna run 2x 10 tacicals as your only Line, and give them chainswords rather than take despoilers, and ferry them into combat in landraiders, be my guest...I'm just offering feedback to save you time/money buying and painting up thing that then don't work like you want them to

calm pawn
#

I understand completely

mystic vigil
#

I think running both Creeping Death and Eskaton will be too oppressive. I will stick with my Creeping Death list with plasma Contemptors instead of the Eskaton detachment - for now !

unique thicket
# trim echo At this point y’all have told me to drop everything except Typhon, Grave Wardens...

I can understand your feelings, I'm not a good theory crafter because I don't play the game. Perhaps ask the questions lightly differently - provide the Rite of War that you'd like to run, and give the units you really want to make use of or how you want it to play out .. and ask if someone could help fill out the list with what else would help make it work well ... if you want it themed, just say what you do and don't prefer to have in the list (be it - no armour, or no fast attack, or simply - only to use plastic models availably in store etc)

#

Question for everyone - does the Rite of War Creeping Death affect any allied detachments in any way ?

buoyant crystal
unique thicket
#

So for running an allied detachment, switch it to Reaping .. or something else

#

Cheers :)

rapid compass
#

Yeah, it's not remotely accommodating to anyone not death guard

#

Plasma cannons stayed as 3" blasts right? What's our thoughts on HSS with them?

buoyant crystal
#

Done a test, worked great. Will use again tomorrow and share results

unique thicket
#

What about the use of Breachers instead of Tacticals ? I'm a huge breacher shield totting fan ...

last saffron
#

I think most DG HSS will be pretty great as they can move and shoot

unique thicket
#

that is for the Creeping Death RoW

#

yeah moving that single ability to the main DG trait is hopefully allowing us to compete with those legions who get buffs to dice rolls

buoyant crystal
#

Used Breachers in all my games so far, works alright. They're cool but nothing revolutionary. Worth the extra 55 points? Yes, if you pay extra and give them Volkite

unique thicket
#

what about Graviton ?

#

They retain fury of the legion right ? damn I need that rulebook >.<

buoyant crystal
#

Breachers do not have Fury

unique thicket
#

they had it still in 1.0 .. but removed in 2.0 ? sucky

buoyant crystal
#

Which is why you want to give them volkites

unique thicket
#

now I get ya .. I had given my first set graviton .. 1.0 .. bit of any vehicle

spice vortex
unique thicket
#

Same, I'm all for breachers :)

spice vortex
#

I assume they’re still one special weapon per 5 guys? Was looking at 2 melta for them

unique thicket
#

If running in ZM, then melta is likely a great option I guess... so maybe 2 volk and 2 melta? interesting

rapid compass
#

Rather frustratingly I think I've decided to build 10 ML 10 las and 10 plasma cannons... which come in 3 different sets lol.

unique thicket
#

lol same issue .. magnetise the arms and you can enjoy melta and volkite too

buoyant crystal
rapid compass
#

What size magnets for these mk6 we thinking?

umbral crest
#

2x1mm maybe?

rapid compass
#

I've only just clocked that cataphractii get to reroll failed armour saves from blast and template weapons

#

You have to be a lot more direct with terminators in this edition don't you

mystic vigil
#

The rolls that matters (invulnerable rolls because of breaching) can't be rerolled

rapid compass
#

Hah was just about to say that

#

So a few 4+ rolls on a tasty whirlwind shot, they don't get to reroll

mystic vigil
#

Yep

rapid compass
#

Or or or! Plasma cannons!

#

Fuck 10 plasma cannons could dump LOADS of wounds on a terminator squad

mystic vigil
#

Yep, same for plasma cannons Contemptors with their large blast at BS5

rapid compass
#

I should really magnetise my contemptors loadout ... tho the plasma didn't come in the new box set did it?

mystic vigil
#

No

rapid compass
#

Aw man

mystic vigil
#

It's not sold anymore on Forge World either

#

So we can expect a weapon box

rapid compass
#

Coming as part of the new plastic kit Then?

#

Yep

umbral crest
#

Would you run a third 10 man tactical squad in an average size game (let's say 2,5-3k points)? I have 10 bodies lying around and I don't know if I should create a new tac squad or use them to reinforce heavy weapons squads from 5 to 10 models

unique thicket
#

I'm hoping so - with conversion beamer and kheres

last saffron
#

as DG I'm gonna be running 20 man tac squads

#

with apothecaries and a catephractii-armoured character in with them

umbral crest
#

I'm not very keen in that play style of buffing big tac squads tbh

#

Just trying to figure out what is the minimum I have to spend in tacticals so they are strong enough to hold back objectives and spend most of the points in heavy hitters for the reaping

mystic vigil
#

20 wounds at 4+++

rapid compass
#

I'm also in the 20 tacs with an apothecary camp

unique thicket
#

I think it might get painful during movement phases pushing around 80 models each turn

rapid compass
#

Shrouded too in creeping death so can mitigate getting ID'd

mystic vigil
#

I will just play 2 bricks myself

#

And a Cataphractii command squad for line

rapid compass
#

I'm just playing two. And you don't move the whole unit, you move the models from the back to the front

umbral crest
#

The thing is, 2 bricks + support sink a lot of points when I plan to run 10 hss lascannons, ML, heavy flamers, a leviathan, contemptor and spartan full of grave wardens

rapid compass
#

Sounds fair for a 3k game?.

umbral crest
#

I mean I guess it could work if you are going to play around the 2 bricks of tacticals

last saffron
#

yeah 2 tac blobs are my go-to

mystic vigil
rapid compass
#

I think the resilience of 4+++ fnp 6+ shrouded troops that enemies lose wounds to.via toxin bombs and dangerous terrain is bonkers good

unique thicket
#

that Cata command squad... thunder hammer(s) on everybody or just one?

rapid compass
#

60.Fotl shot too is great

mystic vigil
#

All the squad

rapid compass
#

We can move before fury of the legion too

mystic vigil
#

This screen is a bit outdated, I miscalculated some points, I have something like 60-80 points left, and I removed the dozer blade because as Creeping Death I don't need them

rapid compass
#

That list is excellent

#

How many terminators in a command squad ? Before additions

mystic vigil
#

3

umbral crest
#

That list looks good

mystic vigil
rapid compass
#

My list is trash lol..tho I'm overhauling it atm

unique thicket
#

my lists will depends if I wanna use official or unofficial models :D

last saffron
#

Death Guard - 3k - Creeping Death

Primarch
Mortarion 425

HQ
Master of Signals 95
Siege Breaker Cataphractii, Toxin Bombs 140
Forge Lord Cataphractii, Thunder Hammer, Chain-Fist, Cyber Familiar, Toxin Bombs 165

Elite
4 Deathshroud, Melta Bombs 300
2 Apothecaries, Artificer Armour 110
Contemptor, Gravis Lascannon, Gravis Chain-Fist, Meltagun 220

Troops
7 Grave Wardens, 2 Chain-Fists, Toxin Bombs 360
20 Tactical Marines, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs 220
20 Tactical Marines, Artificer Armour, Melta Bombs 220

Fast Attack

Heavy Support
Leviathan, Siege Drill, Phosphex Discharger 295
10 Heavy Support Squad, Artificer Armour, Lascannons 285
Predator, Sponson Lascannons, Heavy Conversion Beam, Searchlight, Dozer blade 165

rapid compass
#

2x20 tacs, I've got that bit right at least

last saffron
#

thats my current list

umbral crest
#

That leviathan is gonna need some luck to reach cc

last saffron
#

gonna run him close to the forge lord 😅

umbral crest
#

I'm really disappointed that they left artillery tanks out of the army book. Now my medusa will have to stay at home and collect dust

unique thicket
#

yeah no idea what they're playing at there:(

last saffron
#

aren't they coming out in free pdfs in the next month or so?

mystic vigil
#

Yes they are coming in the PDF rules

#

There is an Iron Warriors RoW that mentions Medusas

#

If they are mentioned in printed books, they aren't going anywhere

last saffron
#

I've got one sitting at home

mystic vigil
#

I'm curious to see its rules

#

Our current phosphex options are a bit disappointing

twilit sun
#

Need more warcrimes ability

umbral crest
#

It's a weird decision

unique thicket
#

I just wanna see Morturg and the Nemesis destroyers for UM

#

oh, and a Caestus Ram :D

umbral crest
#

Hopefully one day they'll bring the caestus back

unique thicket
#

In plastic? sign me up for 2 and 40 breachers .. I'm there.

#

and NO yellow will be in sight.

rapid compass
#

How's everyone modelling their siege breaker?

unique thicket
#

I had one of the champ models with hammer and shield - but again, for 1.0... I wanna do a new one in the upsized plastics, but unsure what model, likely grab Fafnir depending on the loadout for it

void gazelle
wild pelican
#

What do people think of the Death Guard specific units? When would you bring them and why?

buoyant crystal
#

Deathshrouds is one of the toughest Line units we can get (when taken as a Retinue) and will happily mulch their way through anything not packing Terminator or Artificer armour. If you're playing The Reaping you can use Rad Grenades with them, allowing them to ID other Terminators. They have enough attacks that even with just Rending 6+ they're still likely to get a few AP2 hits in.
Primary strengths: High durability, access to Line, horde clearer.
Primary weakness: Dreadnoughts (Brutal 3 insta-gobs them), Terminators with a 3++, anything with S10+ and AP2/1 as it bypasses their reason for being so expensive.

Grave Wardens are as beefy as other Terminators but are exceptionally good when charged as all charges are disrupted and their Overwatch is mean. Place them in Difficult/dangerous terrain and give the Chem-master Toxin bombs and you have a cocktail of death for anyone trying to charge you. They'll happily go around shooting big blobs of enemy infantry or even fire Krak grenades into light vehicles while beating up stuff in melee
Primary strengths: Dangerous to charge, can be put to use against a variety of opponents, great reaction utility if the enemy is close
Primary weaknesses: Vulnerable to the usual anti-Terminator weaponry, short range, slow. Recommend buying a Land Raider for them.

#

I can't comment on Typhon and Morty as they're too specialised for me to briefly analyse and I don't have experience with anything like them

#

I'll be throwing 7 Deathshrouds on the table today along with a Praetor and Primus Medicae all in a Spartan. I will report back on how they perform

spice vortex
buoyant crystal
timid hollow
#

Terminator and Artificer Siege Breakers

20220621_082833.jpg 20220621_082954.jpg
rapid compass
#

Love it, all great ideas guys

calm pawn
#

Those are beautiful

timid hollow
#

Because the second was Rask before his rules died I now also sometimes plan to use him as a Praetor or Delegatus, but given how I'd take Wardens or Deathshroud in every list I rarely ever stray from Terminator Praetor

#

What units do you guys have the Siege Breaker follow around?

mystic vigil
#

Cataphractii command squad with Calas Typhon

#

In a LR

#

And my secret weapon

#

A squadron of 4 melta cannon Predators

#

One of the Pred will try to be within 6" of the LR at the start

#

To get the Sunder buff of the Siege Breaker

timid hollow
#

I did not realise the Siege Breaker could just hand it out to units within 6" now

#

That's cool

buoyant crystal
#

What are people's thoughts on Rapiers mortars with Phosphex shells? They look kinda underwhelming for the 80 points price tag with only 24" range. Would it be better to run an Arquitor for your Phosphex needs instead of 3 Rapiers? Just looking to how I can fuck up the battlefield most efficiently along with Creeping Death while still dealing some actual damage

austere siren
#

Mine is the fella on the left

mystic vigil
austere siren
#

Plague marine with a mark 3 thunder hammer, an old tactical marine head, an old csm waste pouch and an anvilus power pack

mystic vigil
#

Way too short range

buoyant crystal
#

While I agree that both are generally bad, the idea of an army just spamming Phosphex is nutty and something I want to try

#

Hell, just imagine a list with a Siege Breaker, 6 Rapiers, 3 Arquitors and X amount of Leviathans. The amount of toxic waste all over would be glorious

buoyant crystal
austere siren
#

aye he's my praetor

timid hollow
#

Why can't our legion specific terminators take Spartan dedicated transports anymore

buoyant crystal
#

Why? Can't answer that, don't work at GW.

timid hollow
#

Why though

#

I weep

#

Ah well

void gazelle
last saffron
#

Because all true death guard should march up the field whilst getting shot to prove their fortitude

timid hollow
#

Yeah that's understandable tbf

mystic vigil
#

You don't want to run 10 Deathshrouds anyway

#

They are way too expansive

#

For what they do

timid hollow
#

10 Wardens though

#

Or hell even 6

buoyant crystal
#

I'll find out if their fabled durability lives up to their price point today. 7 of them with a Medicae is bound be hard to remove and should hopefully be able to stand on a point for most of the game

mystic vigil
#

I'm unconvinced by Wardens. Their shooting is a bit meh against marines imo, and they are WS4 with powerfist, so won't do well against Legion termies

#

Or any command squad termies

timid hollow
#

Can I get some feedback on my 2.5k list? The point total here is 2,495 and the rite is Creeping Death

Screen_Shot_2022-06-21_at_10.24.27.png
buoyant crystal
#

Well it's not like they're super expensive either at 45ppm. They're not much unlike other Terminators except with different weapons and charges against them are disrupted

#

And the fact that you can take them as Troops in Creeping Death is a big bonus

#

Creeping Death, Toxin bombs... charge me if you dare

rapid compass
buoyant crystal
#

nvm

#

I'm blind

#

wow

timid hollow
#

The Siege Breaker stalks his Leviathan brother around and gives him Sunder so he can try and get as many Rending shots as possible

buoyant crystal
#

Only issue I would have with the list is that it actually contains a vehicle lol. Grave Wardens do probably need the transport but with a single vehicle you're not really giving the opponent much choice regarding what to shoot with their anti-tank weapons

buoyant crystal
timid hollow
timid hollow
#

I'm ill rn I'm allowed to make stupid mistakes haha

buoyant crystal
#

Sunder on Missiles tho...

timid hollow
#

Oh yeah he could definitely stalk the missile squad

#

I could always remove the Land Raider and add more Grave Wardens?

#

No anti tank target

buoyant crystal
#

Could be an idea. Wardens will ofc be the anti-tank target

#

But they can hide

timid hollow
#

On the thought of armour however, I had thought. I could cut the Levi and 5 tacticals to fit in 2 flamer squads in rhinos

void gazelle
timid hollow
void gazelle
#

I'd say plain. In my experience anything which gets close enough is going to paste them anyway, or they sit back safely all game and he'd use none of it.

timid hollow
#

Understandable, I'd just need to find a chainsword scrub to use as a model lol

#

That's 2,485 points total, just another idea for the wall

#

2 Chainfists on the Wardens and a Grenade Harness on the Praetor, or some tank weapons would get it to 2,500

#

Dozer Blades are useless I have just realised so they'll go

buoyant crystal
#

While flamers are cute I think the Leviathan was a good pick to deal with enemy Dreadnoughts and light vehicles

timid hollow
#

Yeah fair enough, I guess that was more of a lore list

#

Alchem flamers worked nice for me

buoyant crystal
#

Having a response to Dreadnoughts is something I think should be mandatory in basically all lists now

#

Just so happens to be that Dreadnoughts are the best response to Dreadnoughts

#

Leviathan especially can really fuck up a Contemptor

timid hollow
#

I have about 35 points spare left from downgrading the Siege Breaker

#

Unless I do the whole removing the Land Raider for more Wardens idea

buoyant crystal
#

Maybe Augury Scanners on the Tacticals? Deepstrike within 12" of me and I will unleash hell upon you

timid hollow
#

Power weapons / Artificer Armour on the Apothecaries?

buoyant crystal
#

Some power weapons would be neat

#

Give 'em all scythes

timid hollow
#

I'd have to reconvert them, but damn would scythes be cool

buoyant crystal
#

So happy I magnetise all my generic characters lol

#

Only Terminators that I don't mag

timid hollow
#

These are Apothecaries from 2016, I didn't know how then

void gazelle
timid hollow
buoyant crystal
#

So AA doesn't do much

rapid compass
#

So, if I were to take 10 las HSS, 2x whirlwinds, and either 10 plasma HSS or a leviathan.... what would you recommend for troops beyond 20 man tac blobs? Anything decent in the TSS slot? I also plan to take 2 contemptors, and 2 laser rapiers ... The latter I'm not sure will be around long lol

buoyant crystal
#

Said it before, will say it again. A TTS of Plasmaguns is a Contemptor's nightmare as it will quickly lose wounds against them

rapid compass
#

10 in a rhino you think?

buoyant crystal
#

That's straight up what I'll be running today

#

Possibly with a Siege Breaker in the unit but still haven't fully decided on where to put him.

#

That way they can glance AV13 to death

rapid compass
#

So S7 T7 is wounding on 4s but that means every successful wound is a breach any way

buoyant crystal
#

Exactly

#

With 20 shots it can get quite dangerous

#

Both for the Dread and the guys shooting har_har

timid hollow
#

Would Cyclonic Melta and claw be better on the Leviathan than the Storm Cannon?

buoyant crystal
#

Depends on if you count on running into high AV really

#

Or if you want him to ID Terminators with shooting

timid hollow
#

The Terminators part is a definite positive for me

#

I just need them to release the damn plastic one

rapid compass
#

Take 2

#

Does the siege breakers "give a unit sunder" only apply to infantry? Or could you give it to, say, quad mortars

buoyant crystal
#

Any Legion unit

#

Mortars, vehicles, infantry, Dreads, you name it

timid hollow
#

That's 2,500 on the dot, ignore the Land Raider I just cba to remove and reformat

Screen_Shot_2022-06-21_at_13.00.23.png
buoyant crystal
#

I like that

#

No Phosphex on the Levi? 😉

timid hollow
#

Well I could swap the Apothecary power weapons for phosphex discharger, 2 chainfists on the Grave Wardens and a small upgrade for one of the HQs

buoyant crystal
#

How are you getting all that for the 30 points you get from Apoth weapons?

#

Phosphex and Chainfists, yes

#

But no HQ upgrade

#

Not that you really need it

timid hollow
#

The power weapons total 30, the discharger is 15? 2 chainfists is 10. 5 points on a grenade discharger or something

buoyant crystal
#

Don't have the Liber Hereticus on me, isn't the Discharger 20?

timid hollow
#

I'll recheck

buoyant crystal
#

All I have to go by right now is the P3 doc and some points have been changed from that

timid hollow
#

Oh yeah it is 20

#

I misread the option below

#

So yeah power weapons can be swapped for chainfists and the discharger

rapid compass
timid hollow
#

I think I'll swap the power weapons so the points are more spread

buoyant crystal
# rapid compass Oh my 😶

I've helped you, now you help me. In #work-in-progress, just posted my banner Deathshroud. Can't decide on trim colour. Give opinion

rapid compass
#

I say red. It's s strong colour that implies danger, and gives that tiny fleck of colour to otherwise muted schemes

#

Or the brass, if you're wanting the whole army to be really dirtied down and muted

buoyant crystal
#

Dark red with a tint of purple will probably be it

#

Army's pretty muted in tone but without being all super grimy and grimdark

#

I like being able to see what's what on a model lol

rapid compass
#

Red with a purple wash will work well

buoyant crystal
#

That's what I was thinking

rapid compass
#

Makes it a very organic tone which plays well off of the flatter pallid armour

timid hollow
#

How do you paint the bone armour?

buoyant crystal
#

Prime wraithbone, shade with marine juice (1:1:1 mix of Nuln Oil, Reikland Fleshshade and Lahmian Medium)

#

Easy as that

#

I don't particularly enjoy painting, so I just find the fastest method

rapid compass
#

Same. Especially with so many to do. I use Vallejo desert tan primer, iron hands steel for metal bits, gloss varnish, pinwash agrax. Greens are just 2 Vallejos I have but can't remember names.
Then I use rhinox and agrax for weathering

#

I production line 10 or more at a time

buoyant crystal
#

My green is literally just 2-4 layers of Loren Forest and then the shade on top

rapid compass
#

You'll need to zoom to see the battle damage

buoyant crystal
#

I try to keep stuff as simple as possible, so my generic colours outside of extra details (like a powersword) are: Wraithbone, Loren Forest, Iron Warrior, Black Templar, Khorne Red and Marine Juice

#

Yea that looks good. I did battle damage on the first couple of models I painted for the army but haven't decided on if I want to keep doing it

#

Those are some very simple guns

#

kinda like it

austere siren
#

I've been painting mk6 guns straight silver

#

Don't need trim

rapid compass
#

Yeah I figure I'll be having around 60 marines or more on table top, no one's gonna see the intricacies

#

The damage is just to make them not a flat yellow

#

Takes a minute per model with a bit of sponge

austere siren
#

Also i did not clock Heart of the Legion stacks with apothecaries

rapid compass
#

It does indeed

austere siren
#

Get why yous are adding so many god darn apothecaries to your tactical squads

rapid compass
#

Hence my apocs on my tacs lol

buoyant crystal
rapid compass
#

Definitely

#

Largely all people see is off white accented against green

austere siren
#

I've been doing bronze armour trim for my mk3s

#

Wish i knew at the start how much time that would cost me

rapid compass
#

I love the lack of trim on the mk6 lol

buoyant crystal
#

Idk, I like the trim. It adds something to break up the two other main colours. Just not gonna go around and paint it on all the trims of my normal marines

#

The Deathshrouds and some characters will be the only exception

rapid compass
#

I like it aesthetically, I used to hate painting it tho

buoyant crystal
#

It doesn't take long enough for me to justify not doing it lol. Not with how much character it adds

rapid compass
#

True

#

So do we know when the lascannon heavy weapon sprues will drop?

#

I have loads of mkiii heads left over... do we think they'll look good on HSS? Makes them look different to the tacs and gives them the more robust aesthetic

buoyant crystal
#

Eventually

rapid compass
#

I also have the rebreather heads left over from the mk6 sprues- use them on TSS for more variation?

austere siren
#

oh not armour pad trim, that's fine

#

like power armour trim

rapid compass
#

Did the neutron blaster on the sabre stay as heavy 1, S 10 AP1, concussive 3, shock pulse, gets hot?

austere siren
#

yes

last saffron
#

is tasty

timid hollow
rapid compass
#

Haha glorious

spice vortex
#

Feel I painted myself into a corner with my guys. All MkIII (so far) with the FW legion pads, which are an absolute sod to paint nicely for someone with my level of skill, plus brass trims, washes etc. and for the life of me I can’t get the eyes looking neat

rapid compass
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Did the neutron blaster on the sabre stay as heavy 1, S 10 AP1, concussive 3, shock pulse, gets hot?

austere siren
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can a deathshroud in a retinue swap their power scythe for a power scythe and standard, as a powerscythe is a power weapon?

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i feel like i'm going insane

unique thicket
unique thicket
mystic vigil
shrewd stone
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Are the deathshroud in this game similar size to the 40k ones? Looking to proxy stuff till me order gets here

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And more on topic, how should I be building out the AoD box for DG?

austere siren
shrewd stone
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Yea, I know that, I meant as a size-similar proxy till my FW ones come

austere siren
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Oh they're fine then

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They're just terminators

buoyant crystal