Nightlords-2.0 Theorycrafting | HH: Age of Darkness | Page 2

spice sandal Jun 26, 2022, 9:48 PM

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I definitely like the idea of them, they’re a particularly night lords tactic

long parcel Jun 26, 2022, 9:52 PM

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If you can get rad grenades onto a target and hit them with chainglaives they’ll be ID, so you might want to have some around as a tech piece

spice sandal Jun 26, 2022, 9:58 PM

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I like the idea of running a couple of units of them

grand laurel Jun 26, 2022, 10:16 PM

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Honestly I'm kinda tempted by a couple of squads of 5 jump destroyers (or one large squad) with serpenta's, but I admit I may be biased by A, loving the look of destroyers and their armour, and B, loving volkite weapons :P

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Still, feels like 4 shots per person wounding on 2s when outnumbering must be able to do something, right?

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Then a rad boosted charge with 4 attacks each to finish off any survivors

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(note, maybe stay as far away from terminators as possible)

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A squad of 5 do about 8.5 wounds on power armour with shooting and charge if they have aTfM, which doesn't feel too bad for either a 155 or 180 point squad 🤷🏼‍♂️ plus, and this is really the most important point, they look damn cool

torpid belfry Jun 27, 2022, 12:38 AM

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If you're running a Deep Strike heavy army with Sevatar, is there any way to play around a Vox-Disrupter Array making most of your DS disordered?

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 2:56 AM

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I haven't run into that problem...
yet
So I shall come up with a solution later

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 3:19 AM

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Having jump packs gives you the option to not deep strike.... adapt to the situation I suppose

torpid belfry Jun 27, 2022, 4:48 AM

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Unfortunately running Sev means running a few termi squads. Which do not have jump packs.

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:04 AM

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Your termi squads aren't locked into drop pods then,
you can foot slog to have something on the ground and run at the MoS I suppose?
Otherwise you rather have your whole army affected by a single character? Im baffled

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:05 AM

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When I did my 3k game with Sev, I slapped him, a Cata command squad and a Chaplain in a Proteus, while I had 2 Storm Eagles with 11 Raptors each, and 4 Termi squads in Deep strike assault; 2 Cata squads and 2 Contekar squads

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:06 AM

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that sounds very killy

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:06 AM

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I was running the Pride of the Legion rite, so all termi units had the Line sub

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so even if we didn't randomly get Blood Feud, then I'd be fine for Obsec

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The only refinement I'd make to my own list is remove 2 Escaton Power Claws, and 3 Single Claws from two of the Cata squads for Lascannons on the Eagles, for better ease of dealing with Vehicles, since Proteus struggled to do so on its own...

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but the idea behind the Proteus was to open up transports with its Gravis Lascannons so that Sev's crew or the Raptors can beat up the gits inside

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:11 AM

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my list is also lacking anti tank now lightnings are not available atm

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:11 AM

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does thou have a link/images of list?

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:15 AM

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I haven't make a list for 2.0 yet. I was running terror assault so I lost all scoring in 2.0 😂
I envision myself to be jump pack heavy in this edition.
1x10 Raptors, 1x10 (JP) Destroyers, 2x10 assault squad, 2 Javelins, 7 jetbikes, and the rest of the TA package so far

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:16 AM

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hmmmm

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So:
10 Raptors 360pts
10 Destroyers 205pts
20 Assaults 410pts
2 Javelins 160pts
7 Javelins 225 pts
TA package? (Unsure what you exactly mean...)
total points 1260 for plain loadouts...

What points maximum are you going for?

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:25 AM

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probably the usual 2.5~3k

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the terror assault package is 2 terror troops all with volkites in dreadclaws

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and a leviathan in a dread pod

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:27 AM

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but for the lack of Anti-tank, I'd say remove two Javelins from that current squad, and fit at the very minimum 3 multi-meltas and put them in deepstrike
Get a cheap unit with Nuncio-vox for better ease of dropping them in for Tank hunting.
If you get only 3 multi-meltas, fit the other two with anti-infantry weapons, as when they've done their job, you want them on their next job: obliterating the rest of the backline.

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So, what HQs do you have in mind btw?

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:28 AM

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which three holding 3 multi-meltas? HQ I had praetor Jetbike and chaplain jump pack

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:31 AM

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That's actually fine.
Give Praetor Melta bombs for 10pts, attach him with the other Jetbikes, and any high priority vehicle target should be dead within the turn you drop.
and any of the jetbikes besides the Praetor's can take a Multimelta

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:32 AM

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I thought the MM jetbikes are in.... HS back in 1.0?

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this was much easier with battlescribe haha

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now that Armoured ceramite is gone multi melta is reasonable instead of keeping opponent honest, I suppose

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:33 AM

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well, it says that Sky-hunter Squadrons can replace their heavy bolters with Multi-meltas, and these squadrons are Scimitar Jetbikes, so...

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 5:34 AM

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back in 1.0 there was the sky slayer, the fast attack version of switching to multi-melta was 1 out of 3 bikes

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 5:35 AM

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Since the Multi-melta be Twin-linked, it's very unlikely that you'll actually miss with them...
and they still kinda are, which is a bit annoying unless you can deal with them easily

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I'm actually making a 3k NL Swift Blade list, so ye

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 6:40 AM

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Finally managed to finish a 3k Swift Blade list

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Sorry if it’s a bit of read with pen+paper, but I just prefer making lists this way

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The simple question here is:
How effective do people think this list is with what units are in it?

eager wadi Jun 27, 2022, 6:54 AM

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looks pretty good, although RAW bike lost bulky but I think they are supposed to be bulk (5)?

south carbon Jun 27, 2022, 6:58 AM

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well, I shouldn't really mind about bulk, since I have enough things to trigger pinning, or at least whittle down enemy units so that I can outnumber

white loom Jun 27, 2022, 11:34 AM

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That's what I did with my 20 raptor models.

outer hill Jun 27, 2022, 2:29 PM

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I am a big fan of Destroyers in 1.0

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the Rad missiles, melta bombs and being allround nasty in CQC meant they were great in Red Gauntlet lists

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and while Red Gauntlet as gone the way of the dodo

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the appeals are similar

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i'd go for a bigger unit of 10

spice sandal Jun 27, 2022, 11:31 PM

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Got my liber hereticus today, gonna get another special weapons box for some very angry boys

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 10:16 AM

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my plan is to find someone locally who doesnt want the rotor cannons because theyre terrible without bonuses, and chop the cavaliers up, saves buying a whole new box

spice sandal Jun 28, 2022, 12:16 PM

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I may or may not have just bought another box for the chargers

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Got my copy of liber hereticus and a skulls box too though, life is good

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 4:06 PM

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The backpacks on the mk6 have the perfect spot to sit skulls on too

spice sandal Jun 28, 2022, 4:50 PM

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Oh yeah, I’ve been using that to my advantage

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 5:11 PM

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So, are Raptor or Assault Squads better?

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 5:41 PM

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raptors

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though truth be told, i havent done the maths on damage per point

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 5:51 PM

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Raptors come out ahead in most situations except completely barebones squads imo. Looking at base units and factoring in aTfM, a 13 man assault squad (181 points) deals 4 wounds against T4 WS4. A 5 man raptor squad (185 points) is dealing 3.16 wounds against the same.

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However then that raptor squad is harder to hit back at WS5, are hitting at I5 on the charge so leave less to hit back in the first place, come with fear, bloody murder and night vision stock (about 20-30 points of special rules), and can load up on special weapons far more effectively than an assault squad

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So if you're just leaving them with chainswords and nothing else, I guess assault squads are a bit more cost effective, and have line. If you're not, then raptor squads are the way to go - they hit harder when tooled up compared to an equally priced tooled up assault squad - 5 raptors with claws (225 points) deals 12.4 wounds against MEQ. 15 assaults with 4 power lances (230 points) deals 7 wounds against MEQ (with half of those at I5).

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Not to mention those raptors have better access to rend, and so will still put more of a dent in 2+ units than the assaults would

south carbon Jun 28, 2022, 6:30 PM

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grand laurel Raptors come out ahead in most situations except completely barebones squads imo...

Is this taking into account they'll outnumber most T4 troops with Bulky(2) for the +1 to wound?

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 6:36 PM

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I've applied aTfM to both squads. Admittedly the assaults will have a far easier time proccing aTfM, but even a 5 man raptors squad will outnumber most squads if you can remove one model from shooting beforehand

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I imagine the tooled up squad calculations would still be in raptor's favour, even if they don't have aTfM and the assaults do

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I'll run the raptors again quickly with that

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aye, raptors do 10.5 with claws, without aTfM - they're still handily ahead

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It's also generally worth running raptors as 10-15 man squads - a lot of their price is in upfront costs for their special rules that then mean added marines are comparatively cheaper. 5 more raptors in a squad are 125 points more, compared to a 185 points base cost. If you've got them in a squad of 10 then you'll be outnumbering anything that isn't a squad of 10 terminators or assault marines

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I could do a 10 raptors vs 20 assaults calculation but it'll just come down to the same I imagine. Base loadouts favour assaults just since they're so cheap, but then when tooled up raptors can shred their way through things at a far more cost effective rate imo

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Still not sure why they have relentless tho :/ I guess if you really want to take some plasma guns there ya go, have another special rule. Would have rathered the old d3 charge attacks stayed instead 😛

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 6:52 PM

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So how are Dreadnoughts then?

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And what about Raptors with a Chaplain?

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 6:57 PM

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Dreads are very strong in this edition, so that's the same for us as with every legion. A slight issue at the moment is they only count as 1 model for aTfM, since they lack Bulky or Vehicle - so can be outnumbered by two tactical marines 😛 But even without aTfM they still excel in most games whatever they go for, whether long range tanky fire platforms, or up close murder machines that can easily go toe to toe with most elite legion units given they have WS5 and Brutal ID ap2 at initiative with their fists

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 6:57 PM

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Oh shit

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So I'm feeling a two fisted contemptor?

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With... Storm Bolters?

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:01 PM

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wouldnt it only give you 1 extra attack? i feel like any proper ranged weapon would be better

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:01 PM

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At least one fist is always a good call on a contemptor, and if you get it into cc it'll usually make its points back due to how ridiculously strong Brutal is. Personally I always feel like having a ranged arm is better than another fist, but that's on a game by game basis imo. For the weapon inside the fist I think grav and melta are the top contenders unless you're just trying to keep points down. Grav allows you to consistently plink hull points off vehicles at range, and melta gives you the swingy opportunity to just one shot vehicles or ID a terminator. Combi-bolters are your best bet otherwise just to keep it cheap, I don't think plasma or flamers are worth the points tbh, might as well shill out 5-10 points more for a melta or grav

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:02 PM

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Wait...

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Whats good Anti infantry for a shoot arm

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:02 PM

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plasma cannon

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:02 PM

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Best anti-infantry is probably the assault cannon or plasma cannon I'd say

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:03 PM

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I may just go Assualt Cannon and Fist w/ Grav then

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How is the Volkite gun?

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:03 PM

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Volkite is good for light anti-vehicle and just weight of fire, but won't do too amazingly

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Volkite usually pairs quite well with aTfM, but given dreads will basically never get that RaW, maybe hold off on it for now

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tbf the new kit is pretty damn easy to magnetise, so if possible you should do that then just switch out on a game by game basis

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:05 PM

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theyll get it if you pre-pin something

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:05 PM

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aye true, but I'd prefer if they just were able to outnumber things 😛 ah well, they'll FaQ it eventually

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:05 PM

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~~I'm not rich enough for irl HH, not for the next couple of years~~

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:05 PM

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fair enough, I getcha

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:06 PM

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Yeah, trying to move states

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So Tabletop Sim is my go to

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NL is gonna be my third army if I ever decide to play irl, I just adore their 30k look

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:07 PM

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3rd 30k army or?

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:07 PM

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30k yeah

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I already got the other wargane I'll ever play down

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NCR for the win

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:07 PM

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ah fair

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:08 PM

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Assault cannon/plasma cannon, fist with melta/grav, then maybe a havoc launcher is a pretty good all comers loadout then imo. You've a decent amount of ranged firepower that can threaten infantry, some close range anti-vehicle, then good combat ability for only 200-210 points, all sitting on a bloody tough W6 T7 2++/5++ platform that's resistant to ID

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:08 PM

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But I'll at most buy up to maybe 4k worth, and luckily for me I never like fielding primarchs

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:08 PM

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grand laurel Assault cannon/plasma cannon, fist with melta/grav, then maybe a havoc launcher ...

This sounds like crack for me. I'm all down for all rounders

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:09 PM

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curze is pretty good even if you just want him for the free upgrades he hands out

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:09 PM

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Eh, I always prefer going for more of the background forces

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:09 PM

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giving every unit 20 points of upgrades for free, then terror assault for the free fear is just bonkers

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:10 PM

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I mean those are fucking solid stats

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:10 PM

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10 units? curze has just paid back 200 points

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:10 PM

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Curze is weirdly cost effective, most armies get about 100-150 points of free upgrades from him, so he ends up only about 100 points above a kitted out praetor

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:10 PM

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Buuut... I prefer my HQ to be the other other choice

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The Termie Gang Bosses

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:10 PM

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fair

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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At least in 30k our HQ's can take jump packs 🙃

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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Do they still have the ability to teleport?

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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Unfortunately we lost that as an upgrade, RIP

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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only if you have sevatar

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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Fuck

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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Contekar have it base, and sev gives it to normal termi squads

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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Contekar are the HQ I want

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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hopefully atramentar will also have it base. But still, bit of a pain

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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They are godly

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How are the Atramentar now?

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:11 PM

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unreleased 😛

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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they arent

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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still waiting on the exemplary battle pdf update

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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anyone tried the biker gang RoW yet to any success?

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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So basically they are either crap stats or none

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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imagine they won't be much different though. WS5 with access to thunder hammers is the main thing I'm after

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for not too many points

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:12 PM

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Weren't they kinda bad last edition?

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I was told go for Nullificators instead of em

grand laurel Jun 28, 2022, 7:13 PM

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I didn't get any games in with atramentar last edition admittedly, but if they keep the access to thunder hammers thats the main bonus since they have brutal, and WS5 is now a must-have for dedicated melee units

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Unsure if Nullificators will be coming back

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:17 PM

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Bye Nullificators

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Anyway, that's just more Night Raptors

maiden hill Jun 28, 2022, 7:20 PM

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copper mirage Weren't they kinda bad last edition?

they were just super expensive for what they brought, didn't get a chance to even build mine before 2.0 rolled around but if they got 2 wounds in their port and stayed the same cost, they might be pretty ok

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:20 PM

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My goal is to make just all jump infantry

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 7:20 PM

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maiden hill they were just super expensive for what they brought, didn't get a chance to eve...

How do they look mini wise?

maiden hill Jun 28, 2022, 7:21 PM

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I was planning on just using contekar but swap out the arms for their proper wargear

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you can check out what GW used in their pdf, mainly tartaros with some stormcast eternal shoulders for the lion's head

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:33 PM

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i ordered 10 contekar before the book coming out because they look rad, man was i disappointed with their cost

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like the rules are cool, but they are not worth that many points

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im sure i'll still find something to do with them

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probably altramentar same as yourself

maiden hill Jun 28, 2022, 7:34 PM

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just bash them into normal terminators

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 7:35 PM

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i've already got 10 tartaros terminators, not sure i need another 10

maiden hill Jun 28, 2022, 7:35 PM

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yeah, they're pretty great models and it'd be hard to not find somewhere to fit them

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wooo more terminators

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 8:36 PM

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What if I go all Jump Packs?

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 8:51 PM

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you'd be lacking in the anti tank department but youd be able to overwhelm enemy infantry quite well with target saturation, just have to pray you dont get seized on

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surviving 2 rounds of shooting rather than just 1

slim zodiac Jun 28, 2022, 9:11 PM

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I decided to pull in a fire raptor with missiles and autocannon for some anti-tank

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also can play 'ride of the Valkyries' when it comes in

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 9:14 PM

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Ok. So I'll have some Dreads and some Jump Packs

spice sandal Jun 28, 2022, 9:37 PM

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I have a siege drill levi and soon to build a ccw contemptor

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I’m sorted for anti tank I’d say

copper mirage Jun 28, 2022, 9:39 PM

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Those tanks are already crying

drowsy mist Jun 28, 2022, 9:50 PM

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shame we dont get the same dread as blood angels that has a jump pack

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stupid blood angels getting all the fancy dreads

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they even have a psychic dread in 40k and the thousand sons dont

high pond Jun 28, 2022, 10:46 PM

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drowsy mist they even have a psychic dread in 40k and the thousand sons *dont*

yup, so frustrating lol

signal ferry Jun 29, 2022, 3:00 PM

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Considering putting the escaton power claw on my praetor but I’m worried it’s overkill

white loom Jun 29, 2022, 4:03 PM

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on infantry but good against dreads amd termies. Plus cool factor!

spice sandal Jun 29, 2022, 4:34 PM

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Very cool

paper stump Jun 29, 2022, 5:22 PM

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Work in progress

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The terror need to have the rotor cannons

drowsy mist Jun 29, 2022, 5:30 PM

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Nice!

drowsy mist Jun 29, 2022, 7:24 PM

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Am i going mental or are legion command squads just crazy good

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you can build them to be essentially raptor squads that all have a 2+ save for not too many more points

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oh and you can give them volkite chargers as well

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think that might be a plan for me

slim lake Jun 29, 2022, 7:37 PM

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paper stump

they're in training and using pretend guns to stop injuries

spice sandal Jun 29, 2022, 7:47 PM

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drowsy mist think that might be a plan for me

That’s a very good idea, how would you load one out?

drowsy mist Jun 29, 2022, 7:49 PM

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Well i have left over volkite cavaliers from the new box so turning them into chargers for one, then just outfit them as i would regular raptors though maybe with more of a slant towards killing terminators over just power armour

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charnabal glaives maybe? that way you can wound leviathans as well as contemptors, you get +1 to wound for outnumbering and youre getting breaching on the 5+ you need to wound anyway

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with a chaplain giving rerolls

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doing an average of 6.75 wounds

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not bad odds to kill a dread

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only doing about 8 wounds to terminators with their invuns

drowsy mist Jun 29, 2022, 8:36 PM

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Now that i think about it, it wouldnt be that amazing

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maybe sprinkle in some combi meltas and power fists

spice sandal Jun 29, 2022, 8:48 PM

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Meltas are always very good

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In 40k I run a unit of raptors with two meltas and a combi for maximum tank destruction

drowsy mist Jun 29, 2022, 8:58 PM

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Yeah, no downside either as all it replaces is the bolter

wanton moth Jun 29, 2022, 9:22 PM

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signal ferry Considering putting the escaton power claw on my praetor but I’m worried it’s ov...

Escaton+paragon blade really isnt a bad combo

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They are both specialist weapons so extra attack

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Both sources of instant death

orchid bison Jun 29, 2022, 11:54 PM

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HQ

Delegatus with power weapon and volkite charger - 102

TROOPS

x10 tacticals w/ chain bayonets, vexilla; sgt w/ plasma pistol and lightning claw - 150

x10 Terror squad w/ volkite, prey sight; sgt w/ power fist, plasma pistol - 265

x5 raptors w/ chainglaives - 235

ELITE

Contemptor w/ autocannon, Prey Sight - 200

Apothecary w/ volkite - 47

999

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List I threw together to start painting

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and to learn the rules

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Will go up to 2.5k when I actually paint the stuff from the box

spice sandal Jun 30, 2022, 12:02 AM

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Chainglaives on the raptors doesn’t strike me as hugely points efficient but I don’t have the rules to hand to check

orchid bison Jun 30, 2022, 12:04 AM

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Theyre S+2, AP 3, two-handed, shred, breaching (+6)

lucid jewel Jun 30, 2022, 12:11 AM

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They're a lot better than claws against dreads though

spice sandal Jun 30, 2022, 12:12 AM

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Fair fair

#Nightlords-2.0 Theorycrafting