#Thousand sons - 2.0 theorycrafting

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tough wigeon
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in most cases i would say yes

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but swords could be useful too for rending

lost estuary
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I got tsons plasma for rending

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give them plasma combi and then the upgrade

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maybe grant them corvidae to snipe a model

tough wigeon
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hmm

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i think pyrae is better for attacks on charge

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at initiative 10

lost estuary
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0 ap kinda hurts

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this way I can take out a troublesome model before the melee

tough wigeon
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for sure, but in a 10 man squad thats still 20 attacks

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hmm

lost estuary
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not to mention even if the model doesn't die I believe Wounds still pass though it first

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barring a challenge

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but at least I hopefully have the init advantage with a axe

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ah wait

tough wigeon
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unwieldly is initiative 1 right?

lost estuary
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yeah

tough wigeon
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thats why im says rending swords may be good idea

lost estuary
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hmm, or just powerfist them all

tough wigeon
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more points T_T

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sekhmet are already so many points

lost estuary
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I mean, at that point you might as well

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with a 10 man squad

tough wigeon
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i will probably give one guy a chainfist and sarg a combi weapon and thats it lol

lost estuary
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how much more vs the normal term

tough wigeon
lost estuary
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sob

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maybe I should stick with cata

ivory walrus
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Actually that's normal terminators whoops

tough wigeon
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sekhmet cant

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yeah

ivory walrus
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There is no way to get aether plas on Sehkmet

tough wigeon
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sekhmet are honestly overcosted and very meh from what i see

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which is a shame

lost estuary
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I still have hope a combi gun counts as both a bolter and plasma gun

ivory walrus
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Yeah Sehkmet are paying for their sins of last edition

ivory walrus
tough wigeon
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imo to make them playable

  • give combi bolters shred
  • give discipline for free
ivory walrus
tough wigeon
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i crei

lost estuary
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Feels like need a FAQ for everything before we even think about list building

ivory walrus
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Agreed Sehkmet need something. Currently they're just normal terminators that pay 25 pts per model for an achean force weapon and the ability to buy a discipline on the sergeant

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Writing that out just made me realise just how bad they are. Ouch it hurts 🥲

tough wigeon
lost estuary
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My thinking with combi is that it specifically says plasma gun and we can swap plasma guns for our version. But this is just my thoughts.

Any Legiones Astartes profile that allows a model to select a magna combi-weapon grants the model a weapon with a bolter as the primary weapon and a secondary weapon chosen from the following list: meltagun, plasma gun
or disintegrator

lost estuary
ivory walrus
tough wigeon
lost estuary
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Huh really.

tough wigeon
ivory walrus
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They has chosen warriors in 1st iirc

tough wigeon
lost estuary
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Oh mixed it up with the other sword guys

ivory walrus
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The point is that Sehkmet pay 100 pts over normal cataphractii for a minor increase in capability

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And lose the options for 1 in 5 to take special weapons

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At least they can finally buy thunder hammers 🙃

lost estuary
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Do the Sehkmet even need psykic if I get a IC to cast powers on them?

ivory walrus
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Depends what the FAQ comes out with in regards to powers stacking

tough wigeon
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to compare with justaerin which are same points
they get

  • +1 WS
  • +1 BS
  • +1 A
  • no sergeant mind you
  • SOH special combi bolter
  • SOH special power axe
  • retinue
  • furious charge (1)
  • chosen warriors
  • stubborn
  • 1 in 5 can take heavy flame, reaper auto or multi melta
  • can also take lightening claws
lost estuary
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When do they do FAQs these days, 2 weeks after release?

ivory walrus
ivory walrus
tough wigeon
lost estuary
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SOH also have the better trait for melee if I remember correctly

ivory walrus
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If powers can stack you'll want both the Sehkmet and the character to have biomancy for that +2 to str and toughness

tough wigeon
tough wigeon
lost estuary
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Hmm, does Biomancy work on Automata?

ivory walrus
tough wigeon
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or can you?

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wait...

lost estuary
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Prav

tough wigeon
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hmmm

ivory walrus
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Praevian can

tough wigeon
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one pet peev (of many, i am salty lol)
is why no termie praevian

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i want a praevian order of ruin guy with lightening claws

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aha

lost estuary
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Oh hey, just to check there isn't a dumb restriction with Praevian and the Castellax-Achea

ivory walrus
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Biomancy is also friendly unit within 6"

lost estuary
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stopping us from joining them like previous edition

ivory walrus
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Nah the praevian has master of Automata (renamed Patris Cybernetica)

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So he can join any unit with automata type

lost estuary
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Oh nice

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hmm

ivory walrus
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Be he doesn't actually do anything for achea

lost estuary
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Well

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he repairs and stuff but yes

ivory walrus
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The forge lord has the same rule and can repair them

tough wigeon
ivory walrus
lost estuary
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wat

ivory walrus
tough wigeon
rotund helm
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Praevian does let achea use Cult Arcana. So something

ivory walrus
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Tbf so does a forge lord

lost estuary
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the heck

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what does the Praevian do if he doesn't buff the robots

ivory walrus
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He allows marine lists to take castellax

lost estuary
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Our robots don't even need to be baby sat

ivory walrus
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or vorax

ivory walrus
lost estuary
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*or Thanatar *

lost estuary
ivory walrus
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Nah the only way to take a thanatar in marine lists is the RoW

rotund helm
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Praevian can join automata , I Don't think any other IC can

ivory walrus
lost estuary
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dumb

ivory walrus
rotund helm
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Oh. Interesting

lost estuary
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I guess I can join a Techmarine to the robots and that'll work better

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wait

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no

ivory walrus
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Yeah unless you are running achean configuration take a techmarine instead

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Alternatively just take an armistos and keep him nearby

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Sorry multi-tasking, badly. I mean forge lord

tough wigeon
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TS IC should be able to take force weapons change my mind

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or at least achean force

lost estuary
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Can I join a Techmarine to the Castellax Achea unit?

ivory walrus
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Techmarines cannot be attached to non-infantry (or non-cav)

lost estuary
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ah thought so

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Such a shame I'm trying to get a achean rite to work

ivory walrus
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Depends what you mean by work. It'll never be good but it's fun and is cool to get line castellax

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I have a feeling that not even Cybernetica will get line for castellax

ivory walrus
rotund helm
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I'd like it on praetors too, given they are top level cult leaders in ts

ivory walrus
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Praetors should get the ability to have 2 disciplines

rotund helm
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And psychic hoods..

ivory walrus
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Word bearers get to take their special magic weapons on ICs so it's super strange we can't

lost estuary
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Line is good, but is it better then a squad of tacticals with shred bolters and Fury of the legion and a apothacary

ivory walrus
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Castellax are going to be painful to remove and make good counter assault units. Despoilers and assault marines really don't want to get locked up with them

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The problem is at 140 pts just take a contemptor instead

lost estuary
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Yeah

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Our psykic Dread is good at least

ivory walrus
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Ehh it's expensive

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25 pts for adamantium will is steep and the force blade is worse than the gravis fist

rotund helm
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Ahriman Amon and even Magnus, no psychic hood.. bah

lost estuary
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Lascannon sniper has potential

ivory walrus
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Arcane litanies really should have stayed

lost estuary
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I would like it if I didn't need to do a leadership test

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Would prefer a weak passive and then the ability to buff it with a psykic test

ivory walrus
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Vets should also have the ability to pay the 25 pts for a discipline like Sehkmet can

lost estuary
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and terminators

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but then we'll never use the Sehkmet

rotund helm
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And command squads... can't even take cult arcana..

ivory walrus
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I think the arcana are actually pretty good, I don't mind testing for it they've done a pretty good job at making them all useful to a degree raptora sobbing in the corner after getting whipped for last edition

ivory walrus
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Another thing while we're wish listing, osirion Magus should either be cheaper and/or get the arcana for free

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Oh and should be able to be taken in talons, that's a weird restriction. You're already paying a bucket of points for it

tough wigeon
tough wigeon
ivory walrus
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I don't think the new psychic powers are too good to restrict that heavily, especially given I'm expecting the FAQ to prevent stacking

tough wigeon
ivory walrus
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The most oppressive power is absolutely hallucinations

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The weirdest design choice is the unwieldy power maul that then makes you explode

rotund helm
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Pyromancy still the meme.

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Like, you have a force weapon on a Librarian,so the psychic weapon should at least be better than that.. right...

ivory walrus
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I mean the shooting pyro power is pretty good

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But that melee profile is so awful

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Thaumaturgy is so close to being good. I can't think of any scenarios where that power is good with the current wound allocation but it's got a pretty good psychic weapon

pastel crest
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Thaumaturgy is really good for UM and DA since they can do their character spread wound thing😅

ivory walrus
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Oh yikes they got to keep all characters, I thought they scrapped that

nocturne cove
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They seemingly binned a lot of our abilities and legion specific gear because they thought psyker powers would make up the difference...

But then they binned all the psyker powers and abilities so our legion trait seems woefully inadequate compared to others... especially given you're risking perils for stuff other legions can just buy or get for free as part of their legion trait like... why?

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Why arcane litanies went I have no idea. With how many chances there are to perils now I would've thought arcane lits would've really come into their own

tough wigeon
ivory walrus
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I've just gone and looked at the legion specific disciplines. That was a mistake, now I'm upset. The WS discipline is insane, 72" range large blast barrage str 5 ap 4 force, doesn't even have psychic focus

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Oh and it has shock pulse to fuck over dreads even more

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And SWs casually throwing out shrouded (3+) to units within 6"

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Maybe it's a case of grass is greener but it feels like loyalists are just better

tough wigeon
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i dont think TS should have unique discipline

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but they should be able to do psychic stuff better

odd edge
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maybe each cult gets a major/adept arcana that's better than the minor arcana and our HQ psykers get access to that as well?
idk im not a rules writer

tough wigeon
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how magnus or ahriman dont get an extra dice for casting i will never know

tough wigeon
ivory walrus
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Honestly that should've been our legion trait, roll an extra d6 for psychic tests and take the two lowest. Then give each cult a psychic weapon, then allow any TSons character to buy an Achean discipline for X pts, ICs can buy both a core discipline and an achean discipline

tough wigeon
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i think the cult stuff should be free

ivory walrus
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Yeah but giving both 3d6 for casting and a discipline is probably a step too far. Could leave the cult disciplines as is and then arcane litanies is 3d6 for casting as a wargear option

tough wigeon
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and sekhmet get that gear as part of profile

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which gives them edge over regular termies casting

ivory walrus
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That's what I'd propose arcane litanies becomes. ICs can buy it for 10 or 15 pts

tough wigeon
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it sucks that as is there is no way to represent a praetor being better psyker

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accept that one warlord trait

ivory walrus
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Yeah TSons rules are just disappointing in general

tough wigeon
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tbh tho

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i feel alot of legion traits were nerfed

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with more focus on gear

ivory walrus
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Our wargear is disappointing to a degree too, mostly that ICs can't take it

tough wigeon
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yeah that is very odd

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like apochecaries and tech marines can

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but not the hq versions of them

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what even aha

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i think later campaign books and stuff will add more rules

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like in 40k

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new units, new row, new warlord traits and items

pastel crest
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Legion expansion when

tough wigeon
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one day maybe

rotund helm
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I genuinely think the lack of IC weapon option is an oversight.

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Right. Clearly there's no day 1 FAQ coming. Time to fire off the rules email

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Its got a lot longer, and significantly more complainy than when I started it

odd edge
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as it should have

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whats it looking like now?

rotund helm
odd edge
pastel crest
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Lmao

coarse hill
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thanks for reposting, I'm gonna send similar too lol

pastel crest
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I think you missed “why Osiron needs to buy discipline” in this one

rotund helm
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I mean I did put in why does Orison have to pay for cult arcana (which I genuinely think is leftover from Rev0 where they were better and everyone paid)

pastel crest
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Fair, I am going to send mine with it. Psyker dread by rule should automatically gain a discipline

coarse hill
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one big one missed is can you cast from in a vehicle

odd edge
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dont mess with thousand sons fans we love reading and we WILL send you a very lengthy email full of questions you have to answer

karmic bay
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Wow, that is a lot of issues for a single legion to have

coarse hill
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they really didn't think through how most of our legion rules actually interact with core rules

karmic bay
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It’s a shame. The XVth is a really cool legion and the models look amazing

nocturne cove
rotund helm
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Actually probably is worth asking if you can cast force dome embarked and would you measure from the Hull of the vehicle. As written I think its yes.

tired comet
rotund helm
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lol literally just now

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i'm sure there will be lots of noise about rulebook typos

tough wigeon
scarlet ether
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Can Automatas be joined by Techmarines?

lost estuary
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no

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they lack the cortex controller

scarlet ether
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so Preavian is the only one then?

lost estuary
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and Forge master

pastel crest
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Why they force us to take tech marine in achea row. I wonder

tropic root
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wow...that list of questions. I find it amazing that with the numerous previous editions that had the simple Ld test psychic powers they somehow managed to make it simpler and far too complicated at the same time. They should have stuck to Lv's casting multiple powers a turn and characters like Magnus/ Ahriman etc being able to use 2 or 3 shooting ones in a turn. would it really have been that hard?

pastel crest
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This set of rule only works perfectly if you have 1 psyker per army.

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Guess they forgot there is a legion filled with psykers

narrow bramble
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well the psychic level should maybe give a bonus

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so a random librarian is not as good as magnus to cast powers

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or worse: a chaplain is not the best psyker in the game

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Ld10 ftw

pastel crest
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Power level (x) is -x to the psychic test?

narrow bramble
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i'd rather have more power but... apparently they decided to not give us that

scarlet ether
tropic root
# pastel crest Guess they forgot there is a legion filled with psykers

Reading through the rules for most of their recent games I get this feeling the current writing team likes to write rules like code. They rely far too much on keywords and tags etc to link up multiple rules and effects. The psychic powers are a perfect example of how these rules can get very muddled when you roll out a simple concept to a broader idea. Nobody scrutinised whether they should rework the psychic powers to make it work for us...they just kept nodding and saying "thats fine".

narrow bramble
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well the P1 arcana where really good

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so we didn't needed the normal power that much on p1

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they just nerf bat them into oblivion (except the move one)

pastel crest
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But you need to buy arcana in p1, 15 pts per unit

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Which doesn’t make sense for a legion trait.

narrow bramble
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tbh i'd rather have p1 arcana for 15 pts than the actual one

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at least you didn't need to be in 12'' bullshit range

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for the +1 invul

pastel crest
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And no 3++, yeah

narrow bramble
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and magnus was actually good

pastel crest
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And force weapon on Sekhmet, damn😅

modern fractal
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Despoilers worth it for Tsons?

tropic root
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I think with a little combo work they can be a good bang for buck combat squad. It just depends if you would rather take them over tacticals with Asphyx shells and chainswords.

rotund helm
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they have the unique advantage in TS of being able to teleport in, which gives them quite an edge in points efficiency tbh

lost estuary
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and speed with the cult

nocturne cove
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I mean if you teleport them in you will want like raptora probably or pyrae

rotund helm
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Raptora doesn't even work with teleport alas. Pyrae though. Then against if you mess up your teleport pavoni will be useful. Hard choices

ivory walrus
rotund helm
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I mean having two units as objectives minders with mid range fire support isn't the worst thing. You can even stick your mandatory praevian in one.

scarlet ether
narrow bramble
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Breacher

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To have an invul and the 4+++ close to objectives

pastel crest
lost estuary
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Why not destroyers?

pastel crest
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Ah, misspelling

rotund helm
odd edge
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khenetai act as the guardians of the cults
cant benefit from a cult arcana

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thank you games workshop

pastel crest
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khenerai+techmarine+apoth is a lot of slots.

rotund helm
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I think apothecary is a good slot to be using anyway

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Techmarine may be a stretch

pastel crest
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So I guess basically if you want a melee veteran you go khenetai?

rotund helm
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Yeah

pastel crest
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I’d be fine with that... if they let us attach ic to khenetai or let them benefit from arcana, better. And clarify mindsong.

odd edge
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especially annoying when they've finally given land raiders 12 capacity so it would actually be possible to stick them with an IC, apothecary, and keep them in an assault vehicle

rotund helm
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I'm not above sacking off mindsong blades and sticking a chaplain in there to tie up primarchs forever .

odd edge
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I am above that mindsong of blades is too cool of a name to pass up

pastel crest
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Well, don’t think power armour meq can withstand general primarch retinue

rotund helm
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Hmmm probably not on their own. Biomancy plus chaplain rerolls so s7 ws5 rerolls to hit rending on 6s. It will hurt.

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But yeah 2+ saves they don't like.

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Double biomancy buff and mindsong.. hard to pull off but that will hit like a tonne of bricks lol

nocturne cove
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How many units on average do you think a thousand sons army would have with cult arcana

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Like what would you say that range would be

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Would you say 12 would be the upper limit of squad's on the table with cult arcana

odd edge
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in an average game where you're not specifically building to max out how many cult arcana squads you have I'd say about that yeah

rotund helm
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I mean I use tanks so probably a lot less, but it varies

narrow bramble
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Well you can still attach a primus to khenetai right?

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2 primus ftw

rotund helm
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Would lose you mindsong blades

pastel crest
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Three hq, Sekhmet, two Osiron, two tactical, apoth, hss, seeker and maybe jav.

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Yeah 12 for me then I guess.🤔

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But I can see it gets easily exceeded.

nocturne cove
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See I'm trying to get like tokens or dice with the cult symbols on them to use as counters to keep track of what each unit is cult wise

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But I need to figure out how many I need

pastel crest
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I don’t really think you need that many. It’s usually just Pavoni and atheanean, and maybe Corvidae for certain shooty units.

feral fox
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Ran a 1,500 pt Centurion game with the following list last night:

  • Cataphractii Centurion, Psyker, Pyrae, Biomancy
  • Sekhmet Cabal (5), 2 Chainfists, Grenade Harness, Psyker, Pavoni, Telepathy
  • Contemptor-Osiron Magus, Kheres, Telepathy
  • Contemptor, Dual Volkite
  • 2x Tactical (10), Achean Axe, Artificer, Pavoni
  • Recon (5), Nemesis, Nuncio, Athanean
  • HSS (8), ML, Artificer, Augury, Corvidae

Failed very first Psychic test and then passed the next 17 in a row, despite forgetting Magister of Prospero WL trait. Conclusion: if you pass all your psychic tests, life is good...

Turning off Reactions with Telepathy is absolutely killer. Reactions are huge and have to be planned around - you can really mess up an opponent with the Telepathy discipline. Don't leave home without 2 of them.

narrow bramble
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Ok time for telepathy spam

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But my current list in 1500 only have 2 psyker 😢

narrow bramble
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Ez

narrow bramble
pastel crest
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Missile

pastel crest
narrow bramble
pastel crest
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They are also very good.

narrow bramble
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Tbh a squad of lascan HSS is so expensive that going with vindicator is cheaper

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And one of those is way harder to kill than the other

feral fox
feral fox
pastel crest
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Wow that’s impressive.

feral fox
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DA list was:

  • Marduk Sedras
  • 10 Interemptors in Rhino
  • 15 Tacs w/ Apothecary
  • 10 TSS with Volkite
  • 5 HSS with Volkite
  • Leviathan with Melta and Drill
  • 5 Vets with Nemesis
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8-3 to the XVth, largely due to Telepathy and a v successful Sekhmet DS.

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Being able to Chain deploy from DS is super powerful. You can really set up easy charges.

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Sekhmet DS, Osiron turned off Reactions on the Leviathan, Biomancy power up on Sekhmet who charged Leviathan (no Overwatch), then next turn Marduk Sedras charged Sekhmet and Centurion used Biomancer's Rage to ID him at I5. Leviathan killed 1 terminator total before dying. Much less scary now they have a 5++.

pastel crest
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How do you deal with volkite? Are they spicy?

feral fox
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I stayed out of range of the TSS volkite and murdered them with Fury of the Legion + my own Volkite contemptor.

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They achieved nothing. Used my HSS ML to take out most of the HSS volkite.

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The Relentless Sniper Breaching Vets were a nasty surprise. Nowhere to hide from them.

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Corvidae HSS ML sniping an apothecary was nice.

nocturne cove
rotund helm
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NGL that has a ring to it

karmic bay
pastel crest
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Heavy support squad.

feral fox
pastel crest
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I wish we can buy admantium will at a cost.

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Only rely on Magnus’ 6+ AW is silly

tough wigeon
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many gripes

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thousand sons

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more like

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thousand salts

dawn terrace
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Speaking of sons

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Speaking of sons can I give pskyer to my command squad

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I know Ahriman could in 1.0

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What about in 2.0

nocturne cove
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The thousand in Thousand sons doesn't reference how many there were but how many FAQ's it will take to get them right

nocturne cove
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I mean I guess they would inherit the cult of their leader that bought the squad but they themselves cannot obtain one

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Or cast one

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No characters

pastel crest
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Or achean force

nocturne cove
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Yes because apparently the Chosen few of a Thousand sons inner circle. The elite of the elite. The absolute Chad's at the head of any tsons battlegroup are all apparently squibs that don't know or understand how magic works?

dawn terrace
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Happens last Ed to as well

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Fuck me

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So how tf do I build sons now

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I was thinking drop pod assault

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With units coming out of drop pods

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And all the leaders in the squads using the lightning power close range and then the whole squad using combi guns and stuff and shooting those

pastel crest
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I remembered last edition Magnus can take Sekhmet as retinue? Or was it?

scarlet ether
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they also have no acces to the wargear when I was looking right?

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because of the missing characters keyword?

pastel crest
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Yep

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They can upgrade bolter and plasma, just that

dawn terrace
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It’s fucked

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I may RAI it

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And make the squad a character

clever sparrow
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Are Sekhemet really that much better than basic Cataphractii? 125pts more for achean swords and a discipline seems a bit steep?

pastel crest
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WS 5 helps, but, eh...

clever sparrow
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Even with a discipline, I can't really think of any that help them other than Biomancy? +1S & +1T are both handy

pastel crest
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Yeah just biomancy

rotund helm
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Stubborn is also good. They are definitely better , but hoo boy a lot of points more

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Did work out that 6 sekhemt and a power is the equivalent points to 5 cata command squad with power fists with a psychic chaplain. One is Clearly better.

feral fox
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WS5 is essential if you want to go up against other elites or dreadnoughts because of the way the WS table works. However, you desperately need S8 for most of those fights, so you're dependent on 2 Leadership checks and Biomancy to get there - and then only on the first round of a combat if you charge, so it's not ideal. They're overcosted, power axes and derivatives are very weak this edition and Biomantic Augmentation is gimped.

dawn terrace
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Also how are they making 3++ rare this edition

rotund helm
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For traitors

pastel crest
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IF: lmao

dawn terrace
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When IF gets them on all terminators

rotund helm
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Loyalists still get it

dawn terrace
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Even tartaros

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Like wtf is that

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IF are so broken

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Even more so than sons last Ed

pastel crest
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I think I have whined enough but our rules definitely fuck up.

dawn terrace
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And sons weren’t even that bad because Yh sekmhet were good but ws 4 power axes is not exactly much

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And it’s not like they could pick iron arm and endurance

dawn terrace
pastel crest
#

😅No nowadays 40k rules are far tighter and better in the sense of loopholes

#

This ruleset smells old 7th.

dawn terrace
#

Oh god I hated old 7th

pastel crest
#

Technically 7th core rule was not bad at all. It’s just there were always loopholes in the rules anyone can abuse and exploit.

feral fox
#

The problem is this: in-universe, Thousand Sons play by completely different rules to all the other legions. All the other legions have more in common with each other than they do with the Thousand Sons. The XVth are almost as alien to the other 17 legions as the Mechanicum. That's really hard to represent with a single set of rules. So instead of trying to do something really hard, the designers have tried to force the XVth into the same template and conventions as everyone else. And as these rules eloquently testify, it really hasn't worked.

#

The fact that THE FLESH CHANGE has no rules relating to it tells you all you need to know about design intent.

nocturne cove
#

Really tsons should be treated as a seperate army from the rest of the legions... even if that does come with a more limited scope of legion armoury

feral fox
#

And with some significant limitations. Like being less good at space-mariney stuff, because (as Ahriman constantly chides them in the book), they don't practice enough, relying on psychic might.

#

And they should cost more. So you end up with a smaller, more elite force.

pastel crest
#

I mean, I mean, stay the psychic phase and psychic level, write 6 psychic powers for each discipline, roll 2d6 to cast, no stacking. Problem solved.

#

Why can’t they just do the simpler way

feral fox
#

But one that is capable of some high risk/high reward space wizardry, that it if goes right lets them match Custodes 1:1 and if it goes wrong....

#

Goes REALLY wrong.

rotund helm
#

Every spell you cast. Gain a counter.. at a certain point.. fail some tests ... flesh change hits..

pastel crest
#

+1 wound when peril can actually represent flesh change enough...

dawn terrace
#

That’s a good idea

#

The counter thing

#

That’s genius

nocturne cove
#

No sign of Teutalaries. Enumerations. Flesh change. Very tiny if any representation of the Three red orders. The cult tempili is reduced to a joke and a box of very limited magic tricks. No real representation of the spire guard. Almost no representation of Forge world Zhao-Arkhad and tsons relationship etc

feral fox
#

But this is a much, much bigger piece of work and (a) none of the designers are into the XVth and (b) Games Workshop makes minimal necessary investment in rules. It's a tough sell to convince your boss that you need as long on one legion as you do on all the other 17 put together.

dawn terrace
#

So is that the reason some legions got the nerf stick and others got massive buffs because the designers play them

feral fox
#

So I have some sympathy for the writers. But then again, there's so many obvious errors and uncertainties in what they did write that it's hard to be too sympathetic.

pastel crest
#

I wonder what they have tested in their different phase. Our rules definitely seem to be tested not enough

feral fox
nocturne cove
#

Tsons utilised more auxiliary assets than any other legion due to being such a small size for a legion. They relied on their friends and allies in the mechanicus and spire guard for assistance but the allies table doesn't even reflect that.

feral fox
#

ME, Underworlds, Blood Bowl. To an extent AT. But 40k is a shitshow not by design but because Robin Crudace is shit at his job.

pastel crest
#

Why we can’t cast biomancy in melee is beyond me😅

feral fox
#

And 30k has wild imbalances and oddities not out of a careful plan to sell more Dorn Yellow (or whatever it's called) but because not very good writers.

dawn terrace
#

Because then it would be good lol

pastel crest
#

The whole point of +1s is to fight in melee, but dang no no you can’t make yourself stronger in a real combat!

dawn terrace
#

Thaumaturgy seems good though with the ap3 flamer spell

nocturne cove
#

GW never has been very good at making magic fun or interesting or balanced

feral fox
#

Anywhat. HH2 TSons are the anti-Reaction legion. It doesn't feel like the XVth but it's going to do work. Just really really stay away from Night Lords librarians at night time...

dawn terrace
pastel crest
#

Can psychic test be altered by NL trait?

#

I thought only hood?

nocturne cove
#

If the night lords essentially get a free psyker hood on all their units that's pretty bull lol

dawn terrace
#

What

#

And we don’t?

dawn terrace
rotund helm
#

Nah only hood can modify psychic tests

#

I wonder if hoods work embarked... hmm

feral fox
#

Hoods require LoS

#

Sorry, yes, just Librarians from any legion at night.

#

You still get -1 Ld from Night Fighting (which VIIIth will almost always have).

pastel crest
#

Just delete it with sniping lascan then

rotund helm
#

yeah but ld modifiers don't apply to psyhic tests

feral fox
rotund helm
#

psychic test rulke

clever sparrow
#

Are the other legions as absolutely lacklustre as us?
I know its still early days but a lot of our stuff feels a bit, mediocre

odd edge
#

I dont think any of them have the same level of clearly not thought out as us

#

there are definitely some that are as mediocre as us, probably some that are worse than us (Not that ive looked im just in denial), but none that are as jankily written I'd say

tired comet
#

Does the Castellax-Achea get 3 attacks because it has two achea force claws?

nocturne cove
#

Like salamanders

#

Despite having a 3++ unit

#

Lotta their characters got panned

clever sparrow
#

Just feels bad, man. Was so hyped

#

Not being strong is perfectly fine, couldn't care about it since I don't play competitively, but the feeling of being kind of uncared for is a bit nasty

scarlet ether
nocturne cove
#

Trouble is that all the other legions at least have some sort of innate ability that mostly helps most of their units be good at something or affects how they play

#

Tsons if you snipe their sargents you effectively turn the tsons into basic unit profile marines with no legion ability which is pretty much impossible with any other legion

feral fox
clever sparrow
#

That and from what I've seen, some legion specific psyker powers and just better than ours outright

#

Wolves get to shrouded (3+) their dudes iirc, Bearers get a nasty flamer template and an outright better version of the main biomancy buff since theirs has Hammer of Wrath (3) too

nocturne cove
#

Yeah the one discipline the white scars and space wolves get is much much better than our five mini powers

#

Honestly I think once they start releasing the books for specific legions or codecies in the future they might expand a lot more on the legions and what they can do

#

Because atm it honestly feels more like a index than a rule book for an army

clever sparrow
#

You'd hope they'd expand and fix stuff. Otherwise, well...yeah. Lots of dissatisfied people all around

dawn terrace
#

I mean they better make Tsons psykers batter than other psykers since like last edition we have more psykers but the ones we have or the same

#

Now with the new disciplines for others it seems our psykers are actually worse than others which is sooooo….. great

umbral quartz
#

What DOES work the way the rules are written? Things that stuck out while reading are that we could at least make some use out of +3 speed on big units of line, close combat, or meltas; +1 inv on breachers; Precise Shots on some unexpected weapons all seem like they'd have a bit of game, even if unreliable.

clever sparrow
#

You can jog up the board like a beast. Makes marines 10" move with a 4" run

#

It's nice, but then you take perils

odd edge
#

or your sergeant gets sniped and then no more speed for you

clever sparrow
#

^ More likely, yeah

pastel crest
#

In p1 the rules literally states you still can use the power even if lost sarge

#

For some reason they changed that and make our legion trait into legion sergeant trait.

#

Guess I will casually play some game, try out some gimmick and focus on painting until they release a proper faq or eventual legion expansion.

odd edge
#

I will just change legion
abandon ship

clever sparrow
#

Going to give them a go all the same, but wondering if BA were the less heartached choice.

coarse hill
feral fox
#

Asphyx and Aether-fire are a bit of a trap. Asphyx locks you out of Fury, which makes it at best a side-grade from a regular bolter that you have to pay points for.

coarse hill
#

Depends on faq

feral fox
#

No, you mean it depends if they change the rules.

#

Only bolters can Fury. It's perfectly clear.

#

Kraken bolters, Nemesis bolters, Asphyx bolters, cannot.

#

Aether-fire is also not as good as it initially looks. Because of the loss of AP2 (4+ to 6+) it's actually worse against Terminators despite the potential for S8, inside 12".

coarse hill
#

I believe people have done the maths and thanks to id it comes out ahead? Not done it personally though.

feral fox
#

Number of dead Terminators at each range, if you get Achaen force off.

coarse hill
#

And our rules are clearly completely not thought out so I'm just waiting on the faq before locking any build in

feral fox
#

Number of dead 1W models at each range, if you get Achaen force off.

unknown.png
coarse hill
#

That's a good bit better at 18", I thought you meant it never comes out ahead

#

But willing to agree not a great idea tbh having seen the numbers

feral fox
#

It's not bad.

#

But it's a not a simple upgrade, and it sometimes comes out worse.

#

And it's yet more Ld tests.

coarse hill
#

Nothing bad for failing ach force though right

rotund helm
#

It should work out better against terminators just, with fnp definitely. And better vs vehicles. Tbh the only real bonus is no gets hot.

#

And assault.

#

Melta is more useful

coarse hill
#

No gets hot is a big factor

feral fox
#

Gets hot is AP4, it's not a huge deal.

#

And range keeps you alive.

coarse hill
#

I wonder if this pans out to the magna on the osiron

#

Can't recall it's stats

feral fox
#

Not done that maths yet.

rotund helm
#

Well yeah

feral fox
#

The saddest maths I've done so far is Castellax-Achea vs 140 points of Tactical Marines.

coarse hill
#

They compare so badly to dreads

feral fox
#

They don't compare well to Tacticals.

coarse hill
#

Not a particularly useful comparison though

#

Completely different role

feral fox
#

Not in the Achean Configuration.

coarse hill
#

I'm not even considering that tbh

#

Given how bad they are

#

What are you thinking build a wise then rusty?

clever sparrow
#

Honestly I'm mostly amazed that the Castellax-Achea is supposed to be some sort of melee beast when its WS3 kek

#

The aether-fire weapon it's got is good, and its claws are good, just that the skill of the beast is disappointing

karmic bay
#

I thought the weapon looked neat on the Castellax-Achea until I saw its WS.

clever sparrow
#

I guess it's supposed to be some weird close fire support thing? It's a sturdy enough lad

tough wigeon
#

its perils in effect

tough wigeon
#

i hope faq fixes stuff

#

classic gw with no playtests

#

i wish the fw design team did it

#

very sad

clever sparrow
#

We all do. Might not be stuck in this state otherwise

tough wigeon
#

i wish in a sense, with all legions

#

that they had more powerful legion traits

#

with a drawback too

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. Drawbacks were flavourful. The ole NL trait where they more easily ran off, etc

pastel crest
#

If no fotl then these upgrades are useless on tacs, which they should be most useful

#

And no bayonets too? Stupid.

clever sparrow
#

Wait asphyx can't take bayonets?

#

how do you screw that up

odd edge
#

tfw cant shout ASPHYX BAYONETS when my tacs charge

karmic bay
#

Wait, you can’t have Asphyx bayonets? Really?

pastel crest
#

Raw, you can’t.

#

Bayonets are upgrade of bolter, not Asphyx bolters😅

clever sparrow
#

So, why on earth do Asphyx exist? 😂

narrow bramble
umbral quartz
#

So does Asphyx in the TS wargear section say you replace bolters with asphyx weapons, or that your bolters have asphyx shells?

pastel crest
#

Either that or Osiron with lascan.

#

Replace.

#

Hss sniping is usually overkill unless you are targeting some serious deathstars

#

Or, if after faq Corvidae indeed let us concentrate our lascan shots on a character we nominate

umbral quartz
#

Though it seems that by RAW just a whole lot of TS doesn't work at all.

narrow bramble
#

raw you can even put everyone at 1w

pastel crest
#

I give up on thinking about our rules😅 I will just convince my friends to let me play in a way that makes sense.

clever sparrow
#

Honestly it's making me consider changing legion, which no set of rules should make you do

#

Just something that makes logical sense, man

umbral quartz
pastel crest
#

I mean there are legions with loopholes too but XV seems to the only one completely broken, isn’t it?

nocturne cove
#

Almost done with them

pastel crest
#

How do you paint that smooth white shoulder?

nocturne cove
nocturne cove
#

Off white is usually strong enough from a distance in contrast

rotund helm
#

Wow I've not heard of glacier blue but that is a great result

tough wigeon
#

looks pretty cool

tough wigeon
feral fox
# coarse hill What are you thinking build a wise then rusty?

I think there's mileage in using Telepathy to shut down Interceptor and then GotCK to DS (Terminators, Sekhmet, Khenetai). You get 6 units, which is enough melee/close range firepower to spoil most people's day. Probably struggle against a melee legion though.

coarse hill
#

Khenetai don't get their power off on the DS turn do they RAW?

rotund helm
#

Nope

#

So if teleporting may as well attach a character...

ivory walrus
#

It's the fact that mindsong is cast at the beginning of the turn that makes Khenetai awkward to use

pastel crest
#

They are useless if the faq says you can not cast power in transport.

narrow bramble
#

well rhino is not an assault vehicule

#

anyway

odd edge
#

You really want them in an assault vehicle so they don't have to weather a turn of shooting after they get our

#

Out

#

They're only in power armour

rotund helm
#

Land raider only real option then.

narrow bramble
#

jmmm

pastel crest
#

If I’m using them the best way is definitely ds... buying land raider for an essentially melee vets seems unworthy...

#

The pain is vets can take droppods now but khenetai can’t

barren frost
# nocturne cove

they look awesome. I think I may pinch the idea to use a black chest for my sgt of that squad

odd edge
pastel crest
#

Need to check, I think normal pods are assault vehicles?

odd edge
#

they arent in the p3 leaks, not sure if that was changed for the final books cus I dont have those yet

narrow bramble
#

i'm way too lazy to get the 100kg rulebook

#

drop are not assault vehicule

#

😆

odd edge
#

gamer

#

guess they're close range dakka deliverers now

pastel crest
#

Shooty vets dedicated

ivory walrus
#

Neither are dreadclaws for some bizarre reason

pastel crest
#

Lmao

ivory walrus
#

Kharybdis is total overkill, as is the Spartan so Landraider is the only meaningful transport for Khenetai

#

I still believe dreadclaws not getting assault vehicle is an oversight but GW has a habit of doubling down on silly oversights (see ATs warmaster shoulder guns)

#

DA unique cataphractii getting overwatch last edition because 'they are just that good' is another good example

clever sparrow
#

This was what I meant by our rules being kinda asinine

narrow bramble
#

in drop pod assault

pastel crest
#

TSS can not take Dorp pods beside row.

#

I say GotCK tss

narrow bramble
#

GotCK is really powerfull

#

just access to 5 drop make it almost auto take

#

and no downside

dawn terrace
#

I mean you say really powerful

#

The fact that my terminators can’t have shred bolters on literal bolters is dumb asf

#

And deep-striking marines feels dumb

rotund helm
#

Need to play it out. But might be stupid good I think

#

And if you can use on the board telepathy like osiron to block interceptor? Easy wins

clever sparrow
#

Shredding combi bolters in someone's face would've been really swell

#

Or dropping a big squad of Pyrae melee lads in someone's face, too

feral fox
dawn terrace
#

In the new edition

#

Also our page has the most likes but simultaneously the most salt I love it

rotund helm
#

Basically interceptor is a free round of Shooting reaction against things deploying from reserves

#

But augury scanners let you react multiple times and even mock the 3 per turn limit. Which is pretty dumb

#

This is a post for blood angels but I think it's pretty similar for GotCK

pastel crest
#

Yeah the current ds deployment is hilarious...

dawn terrace
clever sparrow
#

So if you're playing against Tsons, Night Lords, or Blood Angels you always stock up on them and make their drops into a shooting gallery :p

odd edge
#

Want some if you're against fists too, they can deep strike termies

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. Between terminators and warders potentially being 3+, 4++ re rollable, 4+++ , Fists are goddamn mean

dawn terrace
#

Like Rotck

#

Seems unplayable now

#

Unless you can get a unit with telepathy close enough

#

So I don’t think it can be very good then?

rotund helm
#

24". Not too bad

#

And have a crack at pinning a HSS with the weapon T1 at 36"

#

(Ofc that could backfire if you fail and they return fire )

#

...no pinning won't work will it.. hmm

ivory walrus
#

Deepstrikes happen in the movement phase right? So yeah I don't think there's any way to pin something before deepstriking. Augury scanners are kinda busted for how cheap they are and for how many units get them

pastel crest
#

Sniped the model with augury scanners, easy.

ivory walrus
#

But for 10 pts a squad there's going to be more than you can easily snipe out turn 1 so unless you leave your reserves hanging out for 2 or 3 turns there's little you can do other than trying to land outside of LoS

#

Can you use multiple augury scanners against the same deepstrike?

pastel crest
#

Snipe out 3-4 most dangerous firepower squad is safe enough I’d say. That’s why we really need Corvidae and ammitara right now.

ivory walrus
#

Fine for us but I've also got a drop pod assault Iron Hands army I'm worrying about

pastel crest
#

Ah... take nemesis vets and recons?

dawn terrace
#

Where can I get these data sheets without let’s say giving money to GW

narrow bramble
#

tbh these rulebooks are really good

#

life if you need to flatten something

#

or just to have a heavy weight to test if your drawer is solid

ivory walrus
pastel crest
#

Oh…ok then

rotund helm
#

Tbf deep strike assault includes pinning tests against units within 6" which GotCK makes harder due to Fear

feral fox
rotund helm
#

Right. Both books in hand. Maybe I can make a list.

#

Amon is possibly more useful than I've given him credit for. He can Infiltrate and knows telepathy, so can potentially be on a really choice position with some recon marines. And with shrouded can maybe survive until the Guard of the... oh Ffs he doesn't count for the rite of war restrictions. Gah

clever sparrow
#

It do be like that sometimes. Or all the time with us, it seems :p

rotund helm
#

OK that aside, infiltrating telepathy is useful, shrouding is good and his combat abilities are actually decent for a fairly reasonably costed character

feral fox
rotund helm
#

Yeah but two Praetors... haha

feral fox
#

You just also need a Praetor/Ahriman

pastel crest
rotund helm
#

Just them and potentially ammitara. It would include friendly allies If We Had Any.

pastel crest
#

That’s a big disappointment...

rotund helm
#

The reliquary of dust is Interesting. 2d6 shots hitting on 2s wounding on 4s, Rending on 6s. You are probably going to cause a wound and trigger concussive. Enemy fails the leadership check.. lose 3 WS.. gg but can't be relied upon. I thought Athanean might help but I don't think it does actually. Fear from GotCK would though.

pastel crest
#

Why would you want ds Amon?

rotund helm
#

Not himself but a combined arms assault

pastel crest
#

🤔

rotund helm
#

thinking of ways to combo the teleport. The fear aura will make units vulnerable to pinning, especially with Athanean

subtle fog
#

speaking of pinning, I made a meme

IMG_7892.png
clever sparrow
#

Genuinely curious to how sons stack up in application rather than theory

rotund helm
#

yeah

#

probably need more AT. suicide melta support is my current plan

clever sparrow
#

Hopefully it's not as bad as the written rules seem to imply

Suicide meltas are pretty neato. Put them in the extra speed cult and zip em uo the board lol

subtle fog
#

I played a 2500 point game against world eaters and beat them pretty badly

#

I'm sure we messed up/missed a ton of rules though

karmic bay
#

What were the lists?

subtle fog
#

World Eater List was Praetor w/7 butchers in a spartan
2x 20 man tacticals with chain axes
1 leviathan
1 squadron of preds with autocannons + bolters
1 big shooty tank in the back left cant remember what it was called

karmic bay
#

They’re World Eaters. They also probably just call it “big shooty tank”

subtle fog
#

i blew it up turn 1 so it didnt get to shoot 😄

#

turn 1 I blew up the big tank and then one of the predators, then made another snap fire, slowly moved my stuff up the board, most of it having the +3" arcana

karmic bay
#

Any interesting (good or bad) psychic things happen? Which disciplines did you take?

#

Also, how did the Sekhmet do?

subtle fog
#

I took telepathy x2 and biomancy

#

sekhmet killed all 7 butchers + the warlord and a leviathan

#

but they were backed by a champion + praetor

#

with constant biomantic augmentation

#

I probably lost 7 tacs to perils throughout the game

#

every single hallucinations I did trying to pin him failed

karmic bay
#

Hah

subtle fog
#

not because of perils but because he just rolled 3s/4s

#

I think taking a big discipline on the osirion is a trap

#

waste of 50 pts

#

minor arcana is fine

clever sparrow
#

Osiron with the aether plasma cannon looks like it can do work

nocturne cove
subtle fog
#

thats the one

#

he got too close with his predators to my tac squad and I was able to kill the remaining 2 on turn 2 go go chain bayonets!

nocturne cove
#

Basically a big whirl wind with scary ammunition

clever sparrow
#

Has anyone here messed with phosphex stuff yet?
Looks like it works a treat for mulching marines

subtle fog
#

2 wound terminators with ws5 feel borderline immortal against tac marines

#

even though they had chain axes

#

especially once you buff them up to t5

#

on his first charge into me with 20 tacs into my sekhmet he got 80 attacks and did 1 unsaved wound

clever sparrow
#

Jesus

subtle fog
#

xiphon felt great at 105 points, although 20" min move is still a challenge

pastel crest
subtle fog
#

I did 6 chain fists and 4 axes

#

granted that was my hh1.0 loadout so idk how im gonna build my next 10

karmic bay
pastel crest
#

So butcher weren’t able to kill even one after charge? That’s impressive

subtle fog
karmic bay
#

Poor tac marines….

subtle fog
#

his rite of war made it so that if he was within 12" of something he had to charge

#

so he made a big oopsie there for sure

karmic bay
#

Oooh…yeah

subtle fog
#

and if you can you are able to replace that with a psychic power?

karmic bay
#

I think so?

#

You can’t do sweeping advance with them

subtle fog
#

or run

pastel crest
#

No you still can’t over watch with cata.

karmic bay
#

Oh, really?

subtle fog
#

ah bummer

pastel crest
#

I think so. Let me check

rotund helm
#

There's a lot of rules, I don't think that is one of them though

karmic bay
#

Yeah, Liber Hereticus just says they can’t make Sweeping Advances

#

Unless it’s mentioned elsewhere

subtle fog
#

in the heavy keyword is where it says they cant run

#

but i dont have my book in front of me

rotund helm
#

Heavy says no running and -1 initiative in reactions

pastel crest
#

Yeah couldn’t find the place say they can’t overwatch.

rotund helm
#

What I'd give for an up to date searchable pdf of these books.

karmic bay
#

Oh even just a single book that has it all in one place

rotund helm
#

Yeah.. the USRs being all over the place is a bit of a nightmare

karmic bay
#

Just give me a single book that has all the special rules and keywords!

dawn terrace
#

Hey what this hobby hangout goin on?

rotund helm
#

Also 0 points for whoever gave land speeders thier own special rule that makes you go to a different part of the book to see thier equipment.

karmic bay
#

So yeah - looks like you can overwatch with Sekhmet and use that for psychic nonsense that is instead of shooting, by RaW

subtle fog
#

wild

karmic bay
#

I honestly have no idea what the intention is for it

rotund helm
#

Hallucinations could cancel a charge altogether

subtle fog
#

yeah

#

powerful

karmic bay
#

The whole Thousand Sons legion needs another pass through testing, really.

subtle fog
#

not wrong

pastel crest
clever sparrow
#

So what I'm seeing here is that telepathy is probably our most useful discipline? Biomancy if you can put it on Khenetai or Sekhmet, but otherwise telepathy

karmic bay
#

Seems like it

#

I have some hope for Pyromancy, but I’m probably being too optimistic

subtle fog
#

if you could get pyromancy on tac squads without having to pay the IC tax

#

I would love that

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. Wanting to give pyromancy a go if only because chucking out 3 large templates sounds amusing

#

S6 AP4 makes me think it'll be the bane of non-marines, however

subtle fog
#

when you use a power in the shooting phase does it just replace 1 models shooting attack or the whole thing?

#

ie; sekhmet using biomancy as overwatch shooting, in a 10 man squad, do I still OW with 9 combi bolters?

karmic bay
#

I think just the psyker casting it?

pastel crest
#

Wait wait

subtle fog
#

waiting?

karmic bay
#

Wait some more!

pastel crest
#

The power is on the sarge...

#

So technically it’s just sarge giving up overwatch

#

And the rest just shoot...

karmic bay
#

Yeah. It also means if the sergeant gets sniped out, that squad doesn’t have a legion trait anymore

subtle fog
#

mfw when someone charges me

clever sparrow
subtle fog
#

v lame

karmic bay
#

It’s something that annoys me. No other legion loses their trait if one model in the squad dies

subtle fog
#

we get to cancel the world eaters and blood angels traits by pining them forever

#

lol

clever sparrow
#

I imagine they'd share in the dissatisfaction if you could just turn off World Eaters' anger by merking their sgt

karmic bay
#

Well…they have to fail pinning for that

subtle fog
#

yeah its not great

clever sparrow
#

Just kinda wish our armoury wasn't as lacklustre. That, Magnus being meh, and Sekhmet being expensive bois

pastel crest
#

IC+Sekhmet

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Biomancy +Telepathy +overwatch at the same time

subtle fog
#

I did bring 3 castellax in a ZM game with the aetherfire guns

clever sparrow
#

Wouldn't that make 5 sekhemet literally like 405pts

#

5 sekhemet+IC, rather

karmic bay
#

expensive bois

subtle fog
#

getting force off and making my ravenguard opponent pick up his terminators felt good

#

granted he had to pack them all together in a hallway

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and i couldnt really miss if i scattered because it would stop at the wall

#

lots of hits

#

and dead termies

karmic bay
#

Castellax make me so sad

subtle fog
#

being ws3 is the worst part imo

karmic bay
#

The model is so gorgeous and their rules are just so….meh

clever sparrow
#

Yeeeah

subtle fog
#

the s8 rending gun feels a lot better than I thought

pastel crest
#

How many 6 did you roll?

karmic bay
#

It’s kind of one of my big issues with Thousand Sons and why I’m not sure I’ll play them: The models are gorgeous, but the rules are either bad or, at best, meh

#

They are super pretty, though

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. Same issue I'm having, Mobius

karmic bay
#

Osiron contemptor is good, at least

pastel crest
#

Tbf I never think our rules are meh... they are just working in a very strange way.

clever sparrow
#

Absolutely love the Sons, favourite legion hands down. But, our stuff is so odd

karmic bay
#

It feels like GW set our legion trait and rules, revamped psychic disciplines and how psykers work, and then just kind of forgot to go back to Thousand Sons

clever sparrow
#

Kind of wishing we got sworn brothers with imperial army, to represent spireguard

karmic bay
#

Hah

subtle fog
rotund helm
#

Or mechanicum to represent Zhao Arkadd

narrow bramble
#

finally received my magnus mini

#

he kinda look like...

#

an non warhammer mini

#

like if i tried to print him but fcked up the scale

clever sparrow
#

Anything to do to fix him?

#

Also is it an official mag?

narrow bramble
#

well

#

it's the official mini

clever sparrow
#

oh god

narrow bramble
#

just the scale change compared to the rest of the range is

#

troubling

pastel crest
#

How?

#

He is always huge after all

narrow bramble
#

yeah

#

maybe once he will be built it will look better

#

but the trunk+leg seems very strange compared to the other mini

clever sparrow
#

magnus on his gaming base is about the height of a contemptor, isnt he?

rotund helm
#

near enough tbf

narrow bramble
#

yeah

karmic bay
#

I like Magnus, but I’ve never cared for his HH model

#

The 40k one I like, although it’s definitely not my favorite of the primarchs

narrow bramble
#

Btw achean head + MK3 pad make beakies look really good

clever sparrow
#

So as it turns out, my proxies for castellax until I get hold of some proper ones are perhaps a bit...big

karmic bay
#

Yeah…definitely kinda large

narrow bramble
#

Yeah but tbh

rotund helm
#

Um. More like dreads tbf

narrow bramble
#

It's modeling for disadvantage so it's ok 😆

karmic bay
#

That cable in the back was scary.

narrow bramble
#

also for ts i recommand sending off the stud on the praetor with the axe

#

after that it look actually really good for a ts

clever sparrow
#

I wouldn't mind using those two lumbering robot lads as dreads tbh 😂

#

Save me buying more contemptors

karmic bay
#

I picked up two Castellax during the Warhammer Open. I’ve been slacking and haven’t even cleaned the other one yet

narrow bramble
#

i've been doing print cleaning, sanding and cad for a week

#

one day i'll have time to paint

karmic bay
#

I was originally going to get 4, but I’d already spent more than I wanted. I’m glad I didn’t - their rules are too disappointing, I’m not sure I’ll use them as anything other than proxy or just for laughs

narrow bramble
#

😆

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. Very much glad I didn't go all in on them

#

Eh. Would people accept the walkers are a variant of dread, you reckon?

karmic bay
#

In a casual game? I would say go for it - you do you. Other than that? Probably not. They’re pretty big.

clever sparrow
#

Fair enough

narrow bramble
#

castelax are bigger than dread?

karmic bay
#

No, he’s talking about the picture above that

narrow bramble
#

oh

#

tbh if the model is bigger than the original one it's ok

karmic bay
#

At least, I assume so. If he meant the Castellax, then yeah - I’d accept them as dreads

narrow bramble
#

as you are giving me free LOS

clever sparrow
#

Dreads most likely yeah, since Castellax are a bit meh

#

Initial thought was to use them as castellax because I thought they'd be broadly the right size

karmic bay
#

Yeah - like I said, for casual I’d be all for it. They’re neat looking and even vaguely the right shape! More serious games? Really depends on the opponent and for tournaments, probably wouldn’t be allowed

clever sparrow
#

Works for me, haven't touched a tournament in over a decade 😛

karmic bay
#

Same. I don’t do tournaments anymore. I don’t like WAAC.

narrow bramble
#

if i want to tournament i just bring my custodes

#

carrying a big army for from home is anoying as hell

clever sparrow
#

Yeah, entirely. I like pushing resin and plastic dudes around a board and having a laugh, not sweating over whether objective X is better than objective Y, etc

scarlet ether
#

Reason why i will still try out the Castellax RoW as i found them really interesting in the books. Also luckily only the friends who plays fluff and casual picked up HH around me xD still gonna be though against the IF player ^^

karmic bay
#

I might try out the Castellax RoW once, although I’ll have to find my Mechanicus derpbots to proxy as more Castellax

odd edge
#

might give the axe praetor this if I end up getting the box and decide to stick with thousand sons

unknown.png
scarlet ether
karmic bay
#

Well, I’m hardly an expert, but I’d probably want just one unit with three or four Castellax. Sit them on a midrange objective and enjoy my opponent getting frustrated trying to remove them. While shooting psychic nonsense through them and passing off perils as needed

#

I wouldn’t want more than the required one techmarine, unless I’m going vehicle heavy

scarlet ether
#

Though of 3 and 2 squad so i can spread their rule to take perils from near squads bigger squad would have the preavian in it

karmic bay
#

Might work. One thing to keep in mind is that Castellax explode when they die

pastel crest
#

They don’t?

#

Or you mean the automatic deflector?

karmic bay
#

Well…yes. That explodes. And they have one.

scarlet ether
#

Why can’t we have nice things ^^

karmic bay
#

Everyone likes explosions

rotund helm
#

first crack at a list. GotCK

pastel crest
#

Why vanilla predator though?

barren frost
#

@nocturne cove any sign of those mk2 heads on a model yet? 😱

rotund helm
#

@pastel crest it's what I have lol

narrow bramble
#

no terminator armor for chaplain?

#

and a vindicator

#

damn this is a list I'd play =p

rotund helm
#

Chaplain has to footslog it. Be the second starting telepath.

tough wigeon
#

i cant wait for battlescribe to be up and running

#

will make listbuilding so much more easy

frosty plaza
tough wigeon
#

i need to decide how to build my list, i have in my collection (most of it unbuilt i may add)

  • Magnus
  • Ahriman
  • TS praetor
  • 20 sekhmet
  • upgrade sprues to make 10 kenetai
  • 2 achea automata with plasma
  • 2 lasier rapier cannons
  • osiron dread with one arm vulkite culvarin (???) i think. Unassembled so can change
  • a lone mark IV apoth
  • 40 mark IV marines on sprue
  • a fair amount of upgrade sprues for heads
  • 5 tartaros terminators
  • praetor tribune model
  • sicaran arcus
  • land raider (proteus? its the heresy resin one with assault ramp)
  • new age of darkness set (not gonna use beakees, but spartan... well...)
#

so yeah, a fair amount to play with

#

(i had money but not time/space to do hobby until recently)

#

now i have no money, the irony lol

dawn terrace
#

You could run ROTCK

#

And make one of the sekhmet into a terminator command squad idk

#

This would make a really good Rotck army

#

Put 10 blade occult in the land raider

#

And add heads to all the marines

#

Instead of the default ones

narrow bramble
#

Damn I just realized how strong jetbike are for ts:

We can take MM one + the +3'' cult you have a 19+12'' threat range

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So 31 inch of tank deleting

lost estuary
#

I was gonna use one for Achea plasma cannon

narrow bramble
#

Tbh the melta is just too good

#

Need to do some math on the ts plasma

#

But the MM will delete dread and vehicules

#

Ok now: how many jbikes are too many jbikes

#

?

lost estuary
#

yes

#

make the White scars jealous

narrow bramble
#

Also totally exterminate terminator/other elites

#

At 24''

#

For 45 ppm

lost estuary
#

Sky-hunter Phalanx

#

embrace the bikes

narrow bramble
#

3 units of 3 can be really strong

lost estuary
#

was there a unit limit like with 40k?

narrow bramble
#

And tbh what else do you want to have in FA slots

narrow bramble
pastel crest
#

Do jetbikes still have t5 2+?

lost estuary
#

Sky-hunter Phalanx thou

narrow bramble
pastel crest
#

Damn good

lost estuary
#

they become troops so like 6 of them

narrow bramble
#

🙂

lost estuary
#

fair

narrow bramble
#

DS one unit

#

With some troops

odd edge
pastel crest
#

GotCK can not ds cavalry

narrow bramble
#

Jetbike have free ds

pastel crest
#

Oh, oh

#

Damn, yeah

narrow bramble
#

Ok I'll print 9 asap

#

😆

lost estuary
#

Sehkmet and the dread is the only unit we have that can get psyker right,

narrow bramble
lost estuary
#

I wonder if it's worth trying to spam psykers on the table

tough wigeon
narrow bramble
#

Well

#

Yes and no

#

You need some telepathy everywhere

tough wigeon
#

vets and termies getting ability to buy powers when?

#

lol

narrow bramble
#

Never

#

Best psyker ATM is the chaplain

#

😆

#

Btw: 6 jetbike with MM (285 pts) is enough to statistically blow up any av14 vehicule in a turn, it also ID + bypass armor at 24 inch so can absolutely murder terminators

#

With 5.33 hit per turn

rotund helm
#

Damn pricy though

#

Kinda want a white scars allied force so might park that idea there

#

Not sure the 3" pavoni is worth the risk of self explosion 😬

narrow bramble
#

Tbh our bike are better

#

😆

narrow bramble
#

For extra salt you can take a primus in the unit for anti reaction and to give precision shot 5+

#

Sniping melta is the new meta

ivory walrus
#

Also storm callers have a total baller discipline

narrow bramble
#

Tbh, painting white armor is just a pain for me

#

So no ws

#

May take a small allied of alpha legion for headhunter + access to other legion's units

#

So improved seeker squad (as compulsory troops thx to their row) + siege tyrant.

#

😎

odd edge
#

I kinda wanna do a TS/WS/BA shattered legions force
the Librarius Lads

narrow bramble
#

The esoteric nerds

odd edge
#

Magic Massive

tired comet
pastel crest
#

Actually, what’s better, speeder or jet bike?

#

Speeder seems to be tougher...

nocturne cove
#

I'm not sure if I need mrk 2s to complete the aesthetic or if I can get away with mixed armour

clever sparrow
#

Always found it weird that we aren't sworn brothers to either the blood angels or white scars. Call it the Library Club™️

barren frost
#

Question for you lads. What's the most useful couple of consul roles for us? Something to note, I can print any units so literally everything is on the table. I picked up the two preators as singles from the big box so looking for best conversion uses.

ivory walrus
#

Chaplain is really great Ld 10 makes him a fantastic caster and he obviously melee buffs his squad big time

#

Master of the forge is a shout if you're rocking castellax achea

#

Moritat with aether plas pistols could be very good (if they fix the rule to allow achean force on ICs)

barren frost
#

Ooo ok nice! Thank you. I think maybe a master of the forge for one of them then as I already have 2 castellax achea

#

I've not looked at chaplains before so I think il Google some chaplain for conversions and see what we cna do with one of those new preators. Though I did see someone who made the consul sniper with one of them and that looked cool.

odd edge
#

The sniper consul will probably be pretty handy to have on hand this edition with how snipers are shaping up

#

Not necessarily for every list but if you're against a legion or player you know relies on lots of characters like apothecaries (or another thousand sons player lmao) more snipers can't hurt

clever sparrow
#

He's not the most useful at all, but arguably one of the most fun - Siege Breaker Consuls. They let you give a nearby unit Sunder, and let you take Phosphex shells on stuff like rapiers

#

Phosphex is just plain fun imo, S4, AP3, small blast, lingering death

odd edge
#

they made our planet uninhabitable he lets you do it back to them

nocturne cove
#

And being the Legion that HAS to rely on auxiliary elements like automata and prospero spire guard and mechanicus to make up their numbers

clever sparrow
nocturne cove
#

But nope not sworn brothers with them either... raven guard are... for... reasons?

clever sparrow
#

Yeah. It makes no sense

odd edge
#

yeah thats an oof
tbh some of the ally chart stuff is really weird
Like raven guard, known for being liberators of the enslaved and downtrodden, and who literally have a row representing this forcing them to take a militia allied detachment, dont get sworn brothers with millitia

clever sparrow
#

Outside of Spireguard and Ultramar Auxilia, are there properly named forces of Imperial Army who worked with astartes?

odd edge
#

tbf they do come from a moon that orbits a forge world so being sworn brothers with mechanicum for them kinda makes sense (even though said forge world enslaved the people of deliverance until corax came but whatever they're different now)

odd edge
clever sparrow
#

The allies matrix in general is a bit wacky, as you said
For instance some of it doesn't seem like it should be 'Sworn Brother' territory. Like why are world eaters and iron warriors lovey-dovey?

nocturne cove
#

I mean the trouble is that literally all our gear. Special issue equipment. Weapons all with the "ACHAEAN" stamp printed on it. Is manufactured on Forge World Zhao-Arkhad.

The Psi-Matrix controller used to pilot our automata was a joint venture/discovery by Magnus and Zhao-Arkhad which as a forge world was predominantly focused on the inclusion of Techno-sciences and the infusion of the occult as well.

The Osirion Matrix as well, I.e. the thing that let's psyker dreadnoughts exist, whilst being an invention of magnus would not have reached production without the aid of Zhao-Arkhad.

Intrinsically the Thousand sons and Zhao-Arkhad share a co-dependency with one another as the Tsons supply Zhao-Arkhad with the knowledge and understanding of the Arcane and Zhao-Arkhad provides the manufacturering capabilities and expertise to make any of their gear even possible to produce on a legion scale.

So it sort of annoys me that this mutual friendship is completely overlooked.

As for prospero spire guard they are LITERALLY from prospero. Recruited. Trained and equipped by the thousand sons legion and they share respect for one another because the tsons were one of the few legions that didn't try to uphold a mysticism of superiority over normal humans and all were treated as equal apart from rank in their society.

#

But again... not sworn allies?

#

Yes technically speaking the ruling class of Zhao-Arkhad that enjoyed the mutual friendship of the tsons was technically a minority group and considered radical by other mechnicus groups both on forge world Zhao-Arkhad and potentially Hereteks by other forge worlds but the point is that this relationship existed.

#

If you're interested they have a really cool paint scheme as well

Zhao-Arkad_Domitar_Robot.jpg
clever sparrow
#

Yeah. If any sworn brothers between Astarte and Mechanicum existed, this should be the cronwing example.
Can't think of any other legion who was as close to a forge world, other than perhaps Konor and the Ultras?

odd edge
nocturne cove
odd edge
#

very cool scheme
still gonna do mine in the bronze and green tho

#

because uhh
something something something idc it looks cooler

#

plus it goes better with my blackshields army my mechanicum is for

tough wigeon
rotund helm
#

Yeah i went bronze and green, it's a lovely scheme

odd edge
#

https://scarhandpainting.com/gallery/gallery-forge-world-zhao-arkhad/
tbh im gonna do mine in pretty much a copy of this scheme

Scarhandpainting.com
GALLERY: FORGE WORLD ZHAO ARKHAD - Scarhandpainting.com

A Horus Heresy Mechanicus collection of Forge World Zhao Arkhad, painted lvl 3 “Fast & Furious”. Characters: Anacharis Scoria, Archmagos on Abeyand and Axiarc painted lvl 4 “Chrome & Shiny”. Interested in my Warhammer 40k Commission Painting Services? Contact me through this Contact Form.

rotund helm
#

used necron decals for the symbols

odd edge
#

damn thats lovely

#

also have a follow lol

#

I should make a hobby account at some point

tough wigeon
#

any of you chaps want a vc at somepoint to chat TS?

odd edge
#

every time I do that I end up screaming about how much I hate Magnus

rotund helm
#

hahaa the salt needs to hide

tough wigeon
tough wigeon