New-er Heresy player using custodes.

[tough kiln]

Legio Custodes - no primarch (1) - [2995 Point(s), 3 Auxiliary Detachment(s)]

Legio Custodes - ++ Crusade Force Organization Chart ++ [2865 Point(s), 3 Auxiliary Detachment(s)]

Allegiance
Allegiance: Loyalist

Legio Custodes - ++ Crusade Primary Detachment ++ [1980 Point(s)]

High Command [260 Point(s)]
Tribune [260 Point(s)]: Paragon spear [5 Point(s)], Praesidium Shield [5 Point(s)], Misericordia, Arae-shrike, One Apex Detachment
Command [370 Point(s)]
Shield Captain [185 Point(s)]: Paragon spear [5 Point(s)], Misericordia, Praesidium Shield [5 Point(s)], Prime Unit (Paragon of Battle)
Shield Captain [185 Point(s)]: Paragon spear [5 Point(s)], Misericordia, Praesidium Shield [5 Point(s)]
Troops [1350 Point(s)]
Custodian Guard Sodality [450 Point(s)]:

• 1x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Magisterium Vexilla, Misericordia
• 9x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Guardian spear, Misericordia
  Custodian Guard Sodality [450 Point(s)]:
• 1x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Magisterium Vexilla, Misericordia
• 9x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Guardian spear, Misericordia
  Custodian Guard Sodality [450 Point(s)]:
• 1x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Magisterium Vexilla, Misericordia
• 9x Custodian Guard [45 Point(s)]: Guardian spear, Misericordia

Legio Custodes - ++ Auxiliary - Heavy Support ++ [250 Point(s), 1 Auxiliary Detachment(s)]

War-engine [250 Point(s)]
Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought [250 Point(s)]: Achillus dreadspear, 2x Infernus incinerator

Legio Custodes - ++ Auxiliary - Heavy Support ++ [395 Point(s), 1 Auxiliary Detachment(s)]

War-engine [395 Point(s)]
Telemon Heavy Dreadnought [395 Point(s)]: Spiculus missile launcher, Arachnus storm cannon [20 Point(s)], Iliastus accelerator culverin [15 Point(s)]

Legio Custodes - ++ Auxiliary - First Strike ++ [240 Point(s), 1 Auxiliary Detachment(s)]

Fast Attack [240 Point(s)]
Gyrfalcon Jetbike Sodality [240 Point(s)]:

• 3x Gyrfalcon Agamatus [80 Point(s)]: Adrathic devastator [10 Point(s)], Solarite power lance

Anathema Psykana - ++ Allied Detachment and its Auxiliary ++ [130 Point(s)]

Anathema Psykana - ++ Allied Detachment ++ [130 Point(s)]

Troops [130 Point(s)]
Anathema Cadre [65 Point(s)]: Bolter, Loyalist

• 1x Null Mistress
• 4x Null Sister [10 Point(s)]
  Anathema Cadre [65 Point(s)]: Bolter, Loyalist
• 1x Null Mistress
• 4x Null Sister [10 Point(s)]

[waxen hawk]

Wow, that is a really small list.

[tough kiln]

Im running 30 custodian guard lol

[waxen hawk]

I'm out of my depth to know if the list is functional or not, but I do know that your model count is extremely low for a 3000pt list. By my count you've got 48 models.

Can all of your units cope with heavy tanks? Or is this the sort of list where if they focus fire a few units, they can ignore the rest of your army?

[tough kiln]

the gyrefalcons are fast enough and have armourbane. But custodes tend to run really low unit counts compared to other armies. I've had units of 5 custodes pick up 15 tac marines. My Anti-tank in this list are teh gyrfalcons, the Telemon heavy dreadnought, and the Achillus dreadnought. All custodes have 6+ invulnerable saves and all of our dreads have smokescreen.

[waxen hawk]

Okay, if those 3 units, the gyrfalcons and the 2 dreads, if I kill/tarpit those, can the rest of the army kill heavy armor in a pinch? Or are they just entirely reliant on those 3 workhorses to kill tanks for them?

Like AV14 or AV13

I'm not super familiar with the custodes weaponry, hence asking

Just seems that tying up/killing/disabiling 3 enemy units should be doable for your opponents 3000pt list.

[tough kiln]

they can, yeah. I can equip every custodian guard w/ a melta gun. plus every custodian unit has eternal warrior and gets Crrit 6 on the charge

[waxen hawk]

trying to get a second opinion on that one in the rules section, but as I read it, critical hit only auto wounds, it doesn't auto pen. The bonus damage would apply, but it wouldn't help you penetate armor.

Regarding the Pyrithite spear, cause I looked it up, yeah, that should help, but your list doesn't have those, right?

Anyway, AV13 or 14 isn't every army or every opponent, but with so few, I think every unit needs to be able to function without the others...

Does look like a pretty fearsome list, though.

[tough kiln]

fortunately, all our rules are in a free PDF, so if you want to review it for your own games, its no extra cost lol

[waxen hawk]

I did forget that, I was using new recruit and my rulebook to sort through those rules.

[tough kiln]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/vjcrg9dz/horus-heresy-downloads-talons-of-the-emperor-and-errata/

[waxen hawk]

for the record, got a second opinion on the crit thing, yeah, crit wound won't help you against tanks.

well, won't help you pen them, the damage still applies

[tough kiln]

I figured it wouldn't help w/ the infantry but I know the dreads get armourbane on their spears

[waxen hawk]

Your 3 units I mentioned are really rather amazing at tank hunting. I'm not trying to belittle them. They're great. And not every single opponent will have AV14 units. But AV14 transports, in example, are pretty doable. That's basic land raiders.

So it's like this, you should have units that can kill the opponent if you lose 25% of your army turn 1 (as in the opponent going first and destroying 25%). Your units that can cope with AV14 are just the 3, which represent 1/3rd of your army in points, so turn 1 I kill, say both dreads and half the bikes, or 1 dread the bikes and the 2nd dread is down to half health.

Yeah, a 25% reduction in forces turn 1 will make the game into an uphill battle, but it's about having the tools to still win. And the opponent picks the 25% that dies, so they'll pick whatever 25% represents the largest threat.

In your list you have 2/3rds of your points invested in your troops which can't hurt AV14. If I had AV14, I would definitely focus on killing that third that threatens me, turn 1, and ignore the other stuff. Only 3 targets, it's do-able. If they deep strike or otherwise arrive piecemeal, this becomes even easier for your opponent to focus fire or sacrifice units to disable your forces. I don't even need to kill your dreads/bikes, I just need to render them unable to engage their ideal targets.

So, suggestion is to either alter the infantry to be more versatile in what they can kill (such as the melta weapon you mentioned), or reduce the infantry presence to increase the number of dreads/other options here. It's about being able to defeat your opponents when you've taken a bad turn 1.

Not sure where I heard the 25% rule, but the idea is that you'll lose about 25% of your army every turn, and likewise, you should aim to kill 25% of the opponents' army every turn. Or that's the measure of functional.

sorry for the long block text

[tough kiln]

that's fair. and thank you for your opinion here. I may drop the number of custodian guard so I can include some caladius grav tanks as they have a decent statline which would increase my target list to 5 anti-tank/vehicle units.

again, thanks for looking at this list

unfortunately, there are no custodes tanks that have the same AV as some of the SM tanks and our ranged strength maxes out at RS10

[waxen hawk]

most armies ranged strength will cap at 10. Aside from superheavies, 10 will be the peak.

One thing you might look into is allies with some barrage weapons. They don't need to be amazing, but having the option to deny line of sight protection really changes how the opponent behaves.

But that's not really something your list absolutely needs.

[tough kiln]

unfortunately no can do there lol. Custodes can only ally w/ Sisters of Silence and they are...uhhh...extremely lacking to put it kindly

[waxen hawk]

fluff thing, or is that in the rules somewhere? I haven't found that one yet in the talons book.

[waxen hawk]

huh, but if they were the allies, you'd be fine.

weird rule

[tough kiln]

yeah. its strange. I get what they were trying to do. but that may change when the talons of the emperor liber comes out

[waxen hawk]

Yeah, I feel like GW really wants to sell those overpriced sisters kits, so it's about having the only cheap option in points be the more expensive option in kits

[tough kiln]

and the only sisters vehicle is impossible to get. I only managed to get Jenetia Krole bc a friend went to an event and snagged the last one for me

[waxen hawk]

hmm...looks like the eversor doesn't have melta bombs in this edition. Not sure if that was ever an HH option, but it was a 40k option at one point.

There doesn't seem to be a dedicated AT assassin option.

[tough kiln]

unfortunately not. he is very good at killing characters, however

[waxen hawk]

Vindicare could work, not to kill enemy tanks, but for the shock: pinned & suppressed. Shock allows you to status effect tanks and walkers.

Plus, the vindicare is a high priority target for most players that have faced them in any edition, so they might ignore your AT and focus on that.

[waxen hawk]

Oh, it is only "allied detachments" that it restricts. You should be able to field allies that don't require an allied detachment to be included, such as lords of war, knight detachments, or battlefield fortifications (found in legacies)

[tough kiln]

I can add a knight? The only lord of wars are our flyers which, are both expensive in game terms and for purchase.

[waxen hawk]

new recruit says yes, but they have their own version of detachements.

additionally, the regular lord of war detachment in the main rulebook specifically says your lord of war can be any faction.

But, since you can't like embark in allied transports, having an lord of war super heavy transport from another faction would be a total waste.

[tough kiln]

thanks. that a good idea. But yeah. if Im worried about super heavy transports, I'd just use custodes ones. they also have decent shooting

[waxen hawk]

Anyway, yeah, tough army. Very restrictive.