Forges of Saturn Leaks

[wanton locust]

Remember that is per strike group

[naive skiff]

Being able to force ws7 is kinda hilarious

[wanton locust]

(strike groups here are by weapon type iirc)

[naive skiff]

But the thing is the target

Each model hit at is own ws

Or are you telling me i get free ws6 by having 2 termies CS with prime

[balmy sand]

Having 3 models in a fight is an interesting choice

[sharp solstice]

Correct. The "majority ws" counts only for the purpose of being hit

[naive skiff]

Yeah logical, still ws6 is quite a good defence here haha

[spare eagle]

getting hit at ws7 is pretty hot

[flint pine]

I'd personally kill to take our shields on them

t6/t7 saturnine would be hilarious

[flint pine]

I mean 2 SCS with a primarch fits in a land raider carrier

and then you can take any damage 3 attacks on said primarch thanks to EW2

[balmy sand]

Yeah, but your damage output is really low then, you're barely doing hits in comparison to a regular unit
Maybe as a primarch+proteus cheese, otherwise it seems kinda meh(?)

[flint pine]

I mean 9 attacks + a primarch in melee will blender pretty much any unit

especially since they'd effectively be WS7 on the defense, and you're more then likely going to win the combat resolution

[balmy sand]

Depends on a primarch and what you're going up against

[balmy sand]

WS 7 does not improve anything over WS6 against WS5 though what's the point

[flint pine]

praetors, paragon of battle, and master sgts get an effective -1 there

and when they're the most likely to have threatening weapons like powerfists and thunderhammers it helps a bit

also, against another primarch unit, you could potentially decline to issue a challenge, since they're gonna be hitting on 4's while you're on 3's, which could be useful in niche circumstances

[balmy sand]

You decline to challenge and get laughed, mocked and reduced back to WS6?

I don't get it

[flint pine]

you dont have to issue a challenge, this is if you're the charger

[balmy sand]

But your opponent still can

[flint pine]

correct, if they haven't already burnt a reaction on that unit/spent all of their points

its not an auto take every game, but there are cirumstances when it can be useful

[balmy sand]

The heroic intervention reaction is a combat reaction, not a unit reaction, so it doesn't matter if the unit has reacted

[small lake]

that is weird as hell

would have been nice with a quick tip that it didnt count as a unit reaction

[flint pine]

Oh shit word?

That’s a weird one

[solid citrus]

So the saturnine centurion, if you give it the twin disintegrator what happens if you roll a 2 to hit? Do you hit both yourself and the enemy or just yourself?

[dull rivet]

Need an ammo monkey model equivalent

[violet aspen]

Unless I'm completely misreading Overload, it either hits you or the enemy, never both.

[sharp solstice]

What if you use it on a blast weapon?

You have blas and overload 1, you roll 1. You get the hit, but does the blast disappear or it still scatters?

[violet aspen]

It'll follow the rules for templates with overload, you roll dice equal to the firepower characteristic of the weapon and each roll equal or under X becomes a Misfire and hits you instead of dropping a blast.

[spare eagle]

blast still goes off, the rule is explicit that this does not affect the number of hits!

This does not affect the number of Hits on the Target Unit created by this attack.

[violet aspen]

Thanks. Of course it's the last sentence and the template rule has a 1 word difference that it creates a Misfire instead of changing them to misfires like regular shots do

[spare eagle]

I don't think the template rule talks about misfires?

[violet aspen]

It doesn't, it's only in the overload rule as its own paragraph

[sharp solstice]

It wouldnt follow templates as for templates it says "For Weapons that do not make Hit Tests". Blasts do make Hit tests.

[violet aspen]

So blast overload can hit both the target and the shooter (if they exist, are there even any?). The more targets under the blast template, the greater chance you're about to kill your own model.

[slender moat]

Many of the bigger Plasmaguns for example

[violet aspen]

Ah gotcha.
Sorry I just have the mech book to go off and we have no blast overloads.

[slender moat]

Keeping the good stuff for yourself again… i see i see

[violet aspen]

It's our trade off for blowing ourselves up to run 1 extra inch a turn

[sharp solstice]

I dont think it matters how many models are under blast. You roll to hit once.

[violet aspen]

Ah...so it does.
Has blast always been like this? I could swear back in 7E you just rolled to wound on everything under the template and never needed to roll hits

[sharp solstice]

No, it changed this ed.

I would recommend reading current rules before giving rules advices online tho 😉

[violet aspen]

I genuinely did look into the book and read it before I posted, and even went back after each correction to reread but God did I read it wrong.

I am very glad you pointed that out though, me and my group assumed it was still auto-hit under the template and haven't done a single hit roll for blasts

[vital copper]

Reading the Overload rule, I'm not sure this is correct - it says that hit rolls of X or less are misfires, but as far as I can see it doesn't say anywhere they can't also be hits

[solid citrus]

Overload should have really been misses hit yourself. I don't think GW had though through a bs 5 unit having overload 2 when they made the rule.

[small lake]

i like that a misfire doesnt just remove the shot anymore

[spare eagle]

Yes this is correct

[violet aspen]

"For each misfire, the unit for which the hit tests were made suffer a hit - these hits form a new fire group"
"Wounds, glancing hits, or penetrating hits from the Misfire group are allocated by the controlling player and must be allocated to a model that made attacks as part of the fire group or strike group that generated the Misfire group".

To me this reads as those hits are redirected to the attacker.

[naive skiff]

To me it read this create an additional hit group

[spare eagle]

absolutely nothing there says it makes the attack not go through

you are suffering a misfire, the plasma is venting backwards, but it's still shooting out forward

[violet aspen]

It reads that way to me because the section about template overloads specifically says it creates a Misfire and doesn't effect the number of hits, it doesn't say that for non-templates. It says they "ARE misfires".

[spare eagle]

at no point does it say that the die is changed from being a hit

[heavy radish]

Calling them misfires wasn't a great choice. Because the rules are totally independent from the actual hitting process. Just happens on the same dice roll

[spare eagle]

there would have to be language saying that these dice do not hit and are considered misses. There is not language to that effect

[violet aspen]

"any hit tests made for those attacks that result in a number that is equal to or less than the value of X attached to the variant of the overload special rule that the weapon had, before any modifiers are applied to the roll, are misfires".
X and lower are misfires, which become their own fire group, which must be allocated to a unit that made an attack, not the target.
Maybe you're right, but by their own sequence of attacking, they become part of the misfires group before any wounds are rolled or allocated so that they become allocated to the shooter instead

[wanton locust]

the logical way of doing this in my opinion (not exactly RAW) would be to treat it as an additional strike group of hits. So with BS 5 and overload 2 you get a misfire and a hit on a roll of 2.

[spare eagle]

I think that is RAW

[wanton locust]

Yeah I haven't fine read it, but that's my interpretation

[violet aspen]

I think I'm gonna use your interpretation of it from here out just to avoid drawn out discussions in game and it is more thematic which is the name of the game.
Getting your hand toasted by shooting a big gun wouldn't make you miss necessarily.
Not how I personally read it, but I seem outnumbered on this so I'll go with majority understanding.

[rigid acorn]

So what’s the current consensus on loadout for centurion, double plasma or plasma + fist + shredder?

[untold sigil]

Seems the best load out for cent is probably just gonna be double fist and shredders still

The cent is really...idk, eh, super expensive. same with command squad but hey is what it do

[rigid acorn]

Cent can’t take double fist though. He’s locked to options from standard saturnine box… plus the plasma blaster for some reason.

[untold sigil]

Oh then in that case

Fist and plasma, ol reliable

[glacial rose]

Yeah, once this comes out, you guys wanna petition Panoptica to Rectify this?

[vital copper]

Yeah would be nice for the centurion to get more options

[flint pine]

Im just shocked they gave it nothing

I guess maybe they were worried a praetor would never see action since a paragon of battle centurion would literally just be a praetor for cheaper?

[small lake]

he might be good in smaller size games

just use him as a dreadnought walking around solo

[languid comet]

Does he not get officer of the line 2?

[balmy sand]

But reactions.......

[exotic sinew]

I mean I know why they did it
They want the Centurion to lead the normal Saturnines, and the Praetor to lead the Command Squad

So rather than give each one complimentary traits in some other way, they just give the Centurion normal Saturnine loadouts and the Command Squad the Praetor one

[visual field]

I mean the fist is already a better weapon than most other characters will get, and can come with an ap3 teplate i think everyones asking too much

[dull rivet]

Tbh I'd be down for saturnine getting more options in general

Like a super storm bolter, combi weapons, lightning claws but like, the cool ones where it's literally like bird claws on the fingers. Reaper autocannons, heavy bolters, conversion beams, a chain gauntlet or drill fist, gravity weaponry etc

Maybe a big storm shield?

Or a sword but it's also a melta lance thing

Because it's all saturnine tech they could get pretty wild with it

[vital copper]

Tbf I'm thinking I'll just make a blunt melee weapon like a big mace for the centurion and run with that, it really isn't a bad melee weapon at all. Especially if it's in a squad, compared to the axe it'll potentially be putting out more damage than the axe (since a bigger squad won't get reaping blow), it fights a bit later but if you had a command squad with axes and then 1 initiative step later the fist comes in, that's not a bad deal at all, especially if the centurion has paragon for an extra attack and weapon skill. I just like the look of the bigger weapons held in the fist more than the fist on its own... so I'll probably just make a big mace, and call it a fist

[naive skiff]

Imo if you have more than 2 dudes just go double fist
The hammer is only good on the champion/praetor to nuke someone in duel (hammer + finishing blow = one shot)

But mainly on thr praetor as he can go hammer + axe to go at high init too

(Especially for duel, if someone is at 1hp and you can potentially go faster then the axe allow you to actually finish someone of)

[buoyant wind]

I think the design behind it is that all the weapons are energy based, and it's powered by whatever core is in the Saturnine suit. Also why they explode

[ionic otter]

You could still include a lot of interesting energy based weapons, like conversion or laser weapons. Like three multilasers strapped together or something.
Also more cool melee weapons would be nice.

[buoyant wind]

I'm not sure long range weapons on terminators is a good idea, especially en masse.

Agree about the melee weapons though

[ionic otter]

You could make a smaller inversion beamer instead? Or cut the weapon ranges on 30 to 36 inches on most. But we already got units at that range, thought some of them are meaner then others

Or something like sonic weapons for the EC saturnine, giant volkite for DA. Frostblaster for SW. Get some legion specific stuff. Makes me even sadder that the WB stuff doesnt have any unique weapons, even if they are strong.

[naive skiff]

if the saturnine had access to more standard weapon then everyone would be complaining it is unfair comparison to other termies/hss
The fact it have it's own weird weapon is good as it create it's own niche, also having long range weapons on a t6 4++ model whose main downside is move is... please no.

[flint pine]

if we got a mini inversion/grav gun on the termies I'd be so happy

9" range or whatever would be a ton of fun

[rigid acorn]

Can’t wait for a phosphex launcher if Dark Angels actually do get Naufragia saturnine

[flint pine]

im praying (probably in false hopes) that we get another wave of saturnine upgrade sprues

[untold sigil]

Honestly the saturnine we deserved but did not get. Where is my shoulder mounted wepaons GW.

[flint pine]

if we get a dread option with massive autoguns or something I'd be estatic

[normal shadow]

the saturnine we "deserved" was none at all, but here we are

[flint pine]

real

im honestly shocked about how much they've grown on me]

oh wait you're shit talking them aren't you lmao

[normal shadow]

i am amenable to a single saturnine model for a praetor, because that's about all I've seen done well
i have yet to see anyone do a good job of the rank and file (so to speak)

but also, we didn't "deserve" anything, so for the people who appreciate them this is a nice bonus

[flint pine]

For me personally, Ive went back and forth a bunch on them

I love the dread and praetor, and with a bit of work the rank and file termies look pretty solid

[normal shadow]

i maintain my stance from their initial reveal
scale them down 15% and I'm on board

[flint pine]

@plucky wedge has a pretty good way of doing right handed powerfists for the command squads using the right handed powerfists from sgt's

[normal shadow]

unfortunately it's quite difficult to rescale a plastic model by hand, lol

[flint pine]

and thats honestly really fixed the look of them for me (and the hulk hands are solid as hell rules wise)

[flint pine]

lmfao you don't say

just gotta slowly shave off 15% of the entire model, easy

[small lake]

i like when they make weird and unexpected stuff

[normal shadow]

i like weird and unexpected, i just don't like this specific execution is all
really do think I'd be fine with just the praetor as a single standalone "hey we have a couple of these suits per legion, there's not enough to outfit an entire unit, but your terminators can have a giant to lead them"
it would be easier to justify their lack of appearance prior, and it'd make a nice centerpiece character that doesn't require fielding a named character

[untold sigil]

IMO saturnine are the Centurions of this game system. I dont think a lot of people really honestly wanted them but here we are with these cute/ugly little bastards

[small lake]

i only wished that they gave them more weapons.

maybe some more legion unique stuff

currently it just feels like they made those 2 kits and are now locked to those weapons

[untold sigil]

Yeah thats the weird thing about them.
"Super complicated esoteric construction that takes LOAD of time and resouces.....but every legion has like 100 of them or so given to them during the middle of a massive supply crisis due to the heresy but you know..."

[small lake]

which really hurt the WB specific version

and will continue to make them a little bland

[untold sigil]

Hoping this as well, i really hate that the best load out for them is litearlly the stock load out.

[normal shadow]

patiently beginning the countdown until we get inversion beamers for saturnine terminators and i have to deal with blocks of 6 double inversion guys

[small lake]

i wish they made a weapon box for them

[untold sigil]

tne answer to that is phosphex. Cant do shit with those invesrion beamers if you are running away

I do hope we get more weapon opions as we go along though. Being locked to plasma and or D guns is really lame since IMO the D gun kinda sucks

same with melee. Would love it if they got like a giga Zwihander

[normal shadow]

yea. i think saturnine dread gives a good model for two other options, or you could just go with something conventional like a big heavy bolter

[rich thistle]

Do we have the mission pages? Maybe I'm blind but I don't see them in the files

[untold sigil]

Personall i feel like Saturnine need a ranged upgrade sprue to include

• Some sort of Auto/roto canon upgarde so like a 4 shot auto canon liek the siege terminators have
• Some sort of flamer weapon and perhaps introduce torrent back into the game.
• some sort of bolter weapon thats like a combi bolter that fires out like 4 or 6 shots or something.

[flint pine]

give me 2 araknaes stapled to a saturnine dread and my life is yours james

[small lake]

i would scream if saturnine got torrent before my malcador infernus

[rigid acorn]

inb4 geedubs gives them the 40K Desolator nerf guns

[vital copper]

What I would love to see is an "armoury of the dark angels" set (I'd say in resin, but I worry they're going to completely stop doing FW resin in favour of shifting all to plastic which feels like a mistake to me), with terranic greatswords, Calibanite warblades, plasma repeaters and perhaps now that they've canonised Naufragia being saturnine they could add phosphex launchers for saturnine to that

[languid comet]

Nah fw resin is brutally expensive outside of a few countries. Here a resin shoulder pad set costs more than one of the plastic necromunda upgrade kits that comes with tons of stuff like you describe.

[vital copper]

Ah that's a fair point 🙂 I guess I'd just prefer to see more things made in resin (when they're just small things rather than big kits at least) than for them to make fewer of the things that allow people to customise their stuff, since it does seem there's a bit more of a barrier to making a plastic kit compared to resin

But also the FW resin characters are really nice, especially the newer ones have such crisp detail, plastic is good but still resin can have that little bit more sharp detail

[wintry raft]

GW is slowly moving away from resin for their main systems, and FW doing stuff like upgrade kits for HH is likely just because GW is slowly moving away from resin instead of moving away all at once. HH upgrade kits are one of the few things that FW still has, so they keep making them.

Plus, GW does plenty of plastic upgrade kits for other systems (Ex: Necromunda as mentioned earlier), so there’s not really a practical/mechanical barrier stopping them from making plastic upgrade kits. Just decisions about who does what.

[floral flame]

so, what could it be about the next tactical journal? And what units should it bring with it?

[small lake]

now that we have had 2 astartes journals it is time for 2 solar aux ones.

that is only fair

[normal shadow]

this post fact checked by real saturnyne ram veterans

[wintry raft]

6 more journals to the Legions!

[small lake]

it would be so funny

please do it GW

2 solar aux, 2 mech, 2 knights, and then 1 for each of the talons

[reef apex]

Super-heavies probably.

The armouries of the various factions is another rich vein, as will be the case with one upcoming journal taking a deep dive into the history and employment of Saturnine technology by the Legiones Astartes. This will include two Legion-unique variations of Saturnine Terminator Squads and a set of heavy-assault themed missions. Another will look at the superheavy tanks of the Legiones Astartes, providing a play mode and other gaming options that make games based around one side fielding these armoured behemoths a real challenge, for both attacker and defender.

Likely with Super-heavy Decurions since iirc somebody mentioned there being transfers for officers on the new Fellblade decal sheet.

[idle oak]

Wait whats the other journal

Oh right its the one with the augur command squad

[languid comet]

That is the new decal sheet and there are a number of command transfers

[upper lodge]

wtf is bellerophon

seems like an odd name to include on the transfer sheet

[wintry raft]

Bellerophon was a greek hero who was famed for killing the chimera and taming pegasus

[wanton locust]

Also the name of a british dreadnought class iirc

[solar pebble]

so for the word bearers terminators, toughness check.

I imagine its just roll under your toughness?

maybe im dense

[naive skiff]

above it

so against other satu

[modest wave]

That sounds cool

[warped roost]

All heavy weapon termi's woukd be fine. Look how bad fulms and Tyrants are in 3.0. Even the siege squad is mid at best.

[flint pine]

I would KILL for a decurion fellblade

Like holy shit that’s a dream come true

[naive skiff]

siege squad mid ? whaaat

[warped roost]

Its no 2.0 IW tyrants. (for IW's)

The AC is also weaker than its 2.0 stats.

So, any potential HW saturine would not be broken considering the state of the other HW termi types based off what exists now.

[naive skiff]

In an edition where melee is weeker and d2 exist

So imo AC is stronger than the v2 one

[warped roost]

I suppose str is irrelevent now, no ID etc. But S7 was always the bottom floor for AT capability.

I dislike the move to a D stat like 40k, that has its problems there, also that complaint too OT here I guess.

[spare eagle]

Siege squad is great but unless you're TSons/IF/Maybe DG you're using them for the heavy flamers

[flint pine]

Lowkey? I've found melee to be where alot of the more important things happen

winning a combat resolution is a great way of inflicting panic on a unit, which can often effectively remove it from the game

[untold sigil]

Nah disagree, their auto canons are still very good at bullying MEQ and doing so from good range. Those auto canons are a menace to Vet units also makes half decent Anti Air as well. 15 auto canon shots are gonna do something to something.

[flint pine]

Especially since alot of veteran units have gotten real popular

[spare eagle]

I think they're an extremely expensive way to get veteran killing firepower into lists

Standing still you can kill 4 vets if they're not in cover per 5, which ain't bad but ain't amazing

[untold sigil]

Its also one of the few units in the game with Vangaurd 3 and a 36" range.
Again, they are honestly a really good unit because their fire power sits at a very ineresting place.
They just strong enough to bull MEQ units, but not enough to warrent drwing the ire of big weapon on them.
But a the same time, you dont really wanna ignore them, and small arms fire does not do a lot of good against them becuase you know, terminators.
But since they again are not that deadly, it feels really bad when you do have to turn big guns on them rather then on things you would like to shoot.

IMO thy are a perfect thorn in your side unit Also i like them as body guards to Reapiers moving up the field.