Horus heresy 3.0 rule book leak

[coral sierra]

Wild

[gusty sky]

Excuse me, fucking what

[dark lion]

The ones that do, have it play a game of telephone annoyingly. Ask a friend to ask a friend to get pics. So I'm expecting stuff to be slow

[shut dock]

I’m concerned about the lack of sicarans lol

[patent radish]

What is the context for this?

[blazing zinc]

Traitor leak enthusiasts in shambles rn

[coral sierra]

Buh

[patent radish]

They're there on the next page

[tribal jetty]

corax special rule

[lyric canopy]

Just something Corax gives

[dark lion]

https://imgur.com/a/SEMcTyi

[rose chasm]

It’s there. Just was next page

[tribal jetty]

only two of them anyway

[kindred ledge]

Wat?

What is that and for what?

[dark lion]

They're still

[elfin lynx]

gives us a chance to calibrate our expectations

[shut dock]

No i mean the fact theres only Sicaran Tank and Sicaran Venator

[kindred needle]

I'm going to need confirmation real quick that consuls are still upgrades to the standard centurion profile and not each their own full force org entry because otherwise it means every terminator version is either gone or legacies lol

[quaint torrent]

Corax

[ancient robin]

He means the named variants being their own data sheets

[dark lion]

Wait. The resin ones

[shut dock]

Not the fact they arent on the title page of the imgur

[rose chasm]

Corax gives it if all slots filled with tactical or assault squads

[dark lion]

Huh

[kindred ledge]

That seems terrifying

[rose chasm]

Ooooh

[lyric canopy]

Wait...WAIT WHERE THE FUCK ARE SICARAN VARIANTS AT

[dark lion]

The sicaran omega? The punisher. My beloved arcus?????

[ancient robin]

They are probably points upgrades for the sicarian now

[dark lion]

Trapped in legacies??????

[surreal hornet]

hey, maybe someone lucks out and gets a trait as bullshit as Rg

[surreal hornet]

place your bets, will sons of horus just take 1 less damage from all weapons in melee?

[ancient robin]

Unless they decided to put them on legacies

[dark lion]

God I hope

[late sparrow]

Tanks are on a different page, or upgrades like they should have been the entire time.

[fallen falcon]

Wait do dark furies lose their three sergeants

[near hull]

I imagine they'll be weapon options on the basic Sicaran

[kindred ledge]

Do we have an idea on the stats of that?

[tribal jetty]

I sure would hope so

[quaint torrent]

They get 2 now

[kindred needle]

the sicarans are probably merged into weapon options the same way the leman russes are split between the regular and assault variants, guys.

[surreal hornet]

yes, but theyre ws5 base now

[boreal hearth]

Stop posting RG let’s see DA and BA

[dark lion]

Also the 3 sergeant thing was BS anyways. Just lead to wound daisy chaining

[molten coral]

I have been informed by my leaker friend who is now eating food that apparently grav no longer does haywire and just applies a status to a vehicle

[fallen falcon]

Yeah saw that, ravens talons are also probably worse relatively speaking

[kindred needle]

they aready kinda had 2 different sicaran chassis

[kindred ledge]

White Scars pls

[last bone]

Or they just put the resin in the legacies doc

[molten coral]

Who knows how true because I asked for a pic an hour ago lol

[fallen falcon]

We already saw the sat dread grav so knew this

[kindred needle]

we knew that already because we saw some grav weapons

[molten coral]

oh did we ok cool

[kindred needle]

yeah...

[dark lion]

I mean... didn't we already know that from the saturnine dread rules?

[molten coral]

I didnt. I am now annoyed about my magos

[lyric canopy]

Can the leaker just post the pages for the loyalist "poster boys" so I can finally know how annoyed I should be with the contents page and GW as a whole?

[elfin lynx]

I'm loving the leakers this time around. Take breaks to build models, take breaks for food after posting a legion and a half, god bless.

[idle falcon]

Sicarans are probably just like Predators now in that their turret weapons are just wargear options, Venator has its own one since it has no hull weapon

[onyx condor]

I'm a little concerned about the absence of Armistos.

[dark lion]

Leaking is a full time job these days

[green torrent]

living a good life

[hexed saddle]

I fear

[molten coral]

We've asked for basically everything but its going from a friend to someone who has the book so I can't take the perfect discord ready pics

[tranquil epoch]

Seems I was right about assault units just having their extra attack built in instead of getting it from pistol+ccw, nice

[quaint torrent]

Sudden strike is baked in, and they auto-wound at AP2 on a 6 to hit

[surreal hornet]

possibly, it really depends

[quaint torrent]

I'd say they're marginally better to the same

[surreal hornet]

they COULD be insanely OP, they could also massively suck

[kindred needle]

hey at least you were core book last edition. my poor warmonger was legacies to begin with

[near hull]

That's 'i' not +1i

[onyx condor]

Also, do the other non-centurions have terminator armor as an option?

[pale basalt]

those ravens talons look nasty

[surreal hornet]

the new special rules allow for some busted combinations, but also some shit ones

[kindred ledge]

Kia, headsup. Mor Deythan lost their Combi weapons.....so there might be a chance our Headhunters got hit :/

[quaint torrent]

Impact(IM)

[near hull]

Oh my bad!

[fallen falcon]

posts the worst legion and a half after weeks of anticipation
drip feeds the table of contents and a couple random units
backpacks across Tibet for a month

[near hull]

I jumped the gun on that lmao

[sweet geyser]

Can the leaker just post the entire book in single and double spread format?

[exotic marsh]

with Corvus are those 3 attacks on the Talionis just extra attacks?

[quaint torrent]

Different nomenclature, we all gotta relearn the muscle memory

[solemn oak]

I'm surprised and saddened that destroyers don't seem to be there.

[fallen falcon]

Well lightning claws will probably be rending/breaching also

So dark furies aren’t actually getting any more ap2 than normal LCs

[solemn reef]

We don't have legacies doc

[surreal hornet]

do we have rules for talons?

[modern surge]

couldd get them in a journal!

[quaint torrent]

Yes, in the album

[green torrent]

eh, it just means we are better at it, as it should be

[patent radish]

Would it kill to just post the Legion RoWs, that's like 90% of what people want to see first

[green torrent]

copium

[modern surge]

get some more WTF weapon love and kitbash oppo’s!

[near hull]

RoW are gone, unless you mean all the legion rules

[quaint torrent]

+2 attacks if paired, Impact(IM), Rending/Breaching 6

[gusty sky]

I have to imagine that Destroyers must fall under the Veteran Assault unit. It would be bizarre to keep the Moritat but not the unit that they come from.

[wraith pasture]

We must know what they have done to imperial fists

[patent radish]

not every last detail of Corvus Corax's timeshare on Deliverance

[onyx condor]

And it looks like Apothecaries and Tech Marines lost their covenants..... joy.

[surreal hornet]

which one?

[quaint torrent]

I would bet basic LCs dont have the Sudden Strike

[kindred ledge]

Hopefully

[patent radish]

RoW is what the overall Legion rules are now called

[kindred needle]

legions are the RoW now

[stark stirrup]

It's what I'd do

[surreal hornet]

oh, thats worse then

[kindred ledge]

If they take away our combi melta's I am gonna mald

[wraith pasture]

What they have done to imperial fists will set the tone for the rest of this edition

[fallen falcon]

The unit is better base stats wise

[shut dock]

That was confirmed

[dark lion]

Ohhh, that's an interesting idea. Hope it's the case then

[near hull]

Yeah, I know, but realised what you were asking for AFTER I sent. My bad

[exotic marsh]

is the lack of a + on Corax's Talionis means its limited to 3 attacks and if so are those extra attacks?

[surreal hornet]

regarding this: its basically sudden strike on what will probably the the regular LC statline

[stark stirrup]

The Fists are the third lost legion now actually

[kindred ledge]

Welp guys, can't wait to have to spam Tac support

[surreal hornet]

yes, its just 3 attacks

[lyric canopy]

Wait......what happened with the legion wargear for RG and SW,,,,,

[onyx condor]

Still pissed because I really wanted to spam apothecaries and techmarines for fun.

[fallen falcon]

But the weapon is worse, and if other jump pack melee goes along similar trends dark furies are prob pretty average

[shut dock]

Not true they got camba diaz they are the only legion now

[crisp tulip]

Still there

[exotic marsh]

this chat is going crazy, would it be an extra 3 attacks do we think 😂

[shut dock]

You can you just need to sacrifice tactical and heavy support squad slots for it

[dark lion]

Wargear page for SW never leaked

[stark stirrup]

removed

[exotic marsh]

use both weapons i mean

[molten coral]

Take with salt

[lyric canopy]

Ah, I am just blind af

[dark lion]

THE RULE STAYS BABEYYYYYY

[shut dock]

ABSOLUTE CINEMA THE IRON HANDS CAN NEVER BE NERFED

[dark lion]

3 editions of no legion rule changes

[safe oar]

[fallen falcon]

I mean

[fickle thorn]

FLESH IS STILL CONFIRMED WEAK

[hexed saddle]

The faction rules are so bare bones, they're really just saving everything for the journals huh

[surreal hornet]

unlikely, biomantic slam is just 1 attack also

[dark lion]

You can't change perfection

[kindred ledge]

LMAO get rekt Fists and OOF IH still nutso

[fallen falcon]

It’s a way worse rule now

[lyric canopy]

-1S on IH in 3.0 against shooting is atleast a somewhat fair rule

[surreal hornet]

not 1 extra attack

[wraith pasture]

Spoiler picture jumpscare

[lyric canopy]

Finally, IH won't be better at eating Melta than my goddamm drakes

[fallen falcon]

IH saturnine dread that makes melta s6

[patent radish]

If more than 5 shots from the unit or a single weapon profile? That's a big difference between the two

[dark lion]

Also immortals being 1 wound with a fnp is cool and all but SHOW ME THE THE FORCE ORG SLOT

[onyx condor]

I think Outriders lost some options.

[signal hinge]

Per guy or per unit ? Because per guy is worthless 😂

[fickle thorn]

Iron Hands when it comes to having solid rules no matter what:

[fallen falcon]

Yup

[fiery widget]

Idk seems comparable to me. You lost WL traits and ROW rules. You gain prime traits and gambits. Everything else is the same pretty much.

[fickle thorn]

https://tenor.com/view/lebron-dunk-lebron-james-levronjame-gif-1038771198631298897

[idle falcon]

Yeah no more ID dodging, you're gonna take this melta and actually feel it

[green torrent]

means the rule is perfect as is

[dark lion]

Are immortals in the WS 5 elites slot because I swear if they are

[shut dock]

journal tactica 1
So guys we brought back a legally distinct rite of war system

[onyx condor]

Though it looks like they were changed up to where you can use DA Black Knights for them now.

[nocturne oasis]

Christ, how is this a narrative game when they gut the narrative elements?

[fallen falcon]

It’s prob because they’re going plastic

[shut dock]

Legacies

[lyric canopy]

It's not like we will lack non melta's to nuke it from range

[fickle thorn]

Gonna take this FNP and not feel it at all actually.

[short tiger]

Man I’m glad this has all leaked, no need to be coy anymore

And I’m glad they put termie command squads back in from the original docs I saw

Shame about terminator consuls and characters on bikes

[hexed saddle]

I'll just have to wait and see™

[signal hinge]

Termi consuls are gone gone ?

[digital igloo]

Wait, what?

[shut dock]

I dont get the point of legacies because you can use them to buff out page space and thus increase cost instead of using pdfs which would be a gigabrained GW move

[wraith pasture]

Guys why did this have to happen whilst I'm at work...

[lilac wasp]

Wait who has rad grenades if no destroyers?

[indigo kiln]

Define "narrative elements"

[onyx condor]

Yeah I'm extra concerned about Termie Consuls and Bikes and Jetpacks.

[shut dock]

WYSIWG apparently

[quaint torrent]

Moritat

[signal hinge]

RIP in peace

[crisp tulip]

Leaks are AI generated

[molten coral]

The rules are coming from a friend of a friend, he gets them from a friend, sends them to me then me to you lot its very hard to get good stuff and precise stuff

[hexed saddle]

Prolly just in legends

[wraith pasture]

Can someone condense down what happens over the next few hours please

[dark lion]

Haven't seen the profiles yet. Could just be an upgrade

[wraith pasture]

I have to get back to work

[lyric canopy]

Jimmy

[fickle thorn]

Deathsworn

[elfin lynx]

🔥

[nocturne oasis]

Unless row and legion wargear is in there, and all the alt options from book units too, legacies wont chamge anything

[shut dock]

Inb4 they lose them

[tribal jetty]

I believe the resin outriders ones only come with bolters and plasma

[silent yoke]

I cannot say

[short tiger]

Hopefully!

[signal hinge]

I just want to know if the IF legion rule is now useless because there are no weapons with FP5 in the game or not

[kindred needle]

it's that or the consuls are still an upgrades system and they're just now in the table of contents

[fickle thorn]

Oof

[lilac wasp]

Deathsworn stay WS4 cause why not

[kindred needle]

but I'm fearful

[lilac wasp]

Still can’t run tho

[shut dock]

They’re prolly saving it for the journals for wargear but this is abysmal

[idle falcon]

I'll save you the time, there are going to be a lot of assumptions made with limited information and many people will be salty

[lyric canopy]

Huh......I guess Punisher main gun? If that's still a thing

[molten torrent]

I'm worried how much my Terror squads and Night raptors will lose now

[short tiger]

Consuls are all their own units now by the looks of things

[fickle thorn]

Only axes now too if the leak is true

[shut dock]

Dokt worry they leak next week

[exotic marsh]

do we know its the gun or the unit shots total

[nocturne oasis]

"Narrative is dlc"

[onyx condor]

Issue is Centurions and Praetors flat out state they're Terminator armors. What I'm surprised by is Tartaros and Cataphractii are no longer separate units.

[fallen falcon]

We know legion Wargear is gonna exist in the book

[signal hinge]

No that's why I'm asking

[crisp tulip]

Im gonna lose it if Raptors lose claws
I love my conversions

[tidal harness]

No destroyers btw

[fallen falcon]

We’ve already seen some

[onyx condor]

So hopefully the Consuls are just upgrades.

[molten torrent]

All according to the in-house GW leaker, comrade

[kindred needle]

if they are that is the worst possible decision to make but I already ranted elsewhere about it

[lilac wasp]

So what game is everyone else going to play instead?

[signal hinge]

Unit is fine, gun means IF have no legion trait

[fickle thorn]

2.0 lol

[dark lion]

Ah yeah that's fair. Gotta wait and see how it turns out I guess

[exotic marsh]

it would be pretty stupid to be no bonus unless you use a non existant weapon

[nocturne oasis]

Do we? How do we know that

[kindred needle]

2nd edition forever

[short tiger]

They said before they had differing stats so makes sense for them all to be their own options

[surreal hornet]

Kaedes nex actually seems to be decent this time round

[molten coral]

Moritat probably

[bronze oxide]

Same
All 60 of my raptors are non kit weapons...

[ancient robin]

You could always play 10th

[quaint torrent]

Because we literally have pages with it existing

[near hull]

We've seen the RG wargear

[surreal hornet]

BS6 means he can crit, which on his hand cannon is nice

[kindred needle]

fucking idiots lol

[lyric canopy]

Oh god I tought you meant in general and I had a small panic attack before checking the contents table

[onyx condor]

But Hoo boy am I pissed that Armistos is gone since it NUKES my plans for a TF2 Centurion/Consul list.

[kindred ledge]

Tldr on Talons?

[surreal hornet]

they explicitly are?

[molten torrent]

Same, half my raptors have claws

[lilac wasp]

I have 50 stalkers myself so

[molten coral]

lol, lmao even

[quaint torrent]

About the same, they get there with different rules. Have Sudden Strike baked into the weapon now.

[fallen falcon]

Space wolf players can’t read you gotta be patient

[surreal hornet]

fine, not amazing, 6s to hit wound with ap2, but theyre otherwise breaching 6+ with no reroll

[signal hinge]

Space Wolf players hate books

[lyric canopy]

If it's unit total than it's a pointless distinction tough innit? I mean....I am pretty sure every unit can get 5 bolt shots except for like...a tank or two

[bright cave]

Is the updated Imgur in the pins up top?

[near hull]

S- AP3 1D, Impact(IM), Rending and Breaching 6+.
+2A on dual claws

[kindred ledge]

So Dark Furies are gonna be a terror I am gonna guess? With 3 attacks and WS5

[lilac wasp]

This is by far our least favorite book

[fickle thorn]

"You'll be a despoiler."

[hard pewter]

slight nerf to breaching/rending. now on 6+ instead of 5+ but otherwise fine

[molten torrent]

GW didn't get the memo that heresy isn't 10th ed 40k I guess

[short tiger]

This is why I was employing people to read the reviews before preordering because I knew these unit changes were coming

No need to provide sources when it’s out in the wild now lmao

[signal hinge]

What about the Codex Astartes ?

[opaque verge]

i'm not 100% sure where we are but, Corvus's talons seem... meh?

[surreal hornet]

possibly? needs mathing out

[exotic marsh]

vehicles maybe or dreadnaughts

[kindred ledge]

Ok....ehhh that's ok. Still really scary unit. That's 30 attacks still

[molten coral]

Well Talons are now breaching 6 rending 6

[balmy creek]

Legion unique units what's it the box only right

[lilac wasp]

Never heard of it

[molten torrent]

Anyone else find it annoying that the saturnine are almost the same as Primarchs btw

[surreal hornet]

corvus has dog melee stats, id be surprised if theres a primarch worse, but his sire benefit is better

[elfin lynx]

we're back to early 4th edition lol

[kindred ledge]

At least it isn't rending 5 anymore

[surreal hornet]

remember rending is "to hit"

[trim seal]

So no upgrading characters into terminator armour?

[kindred ledge]

Lorgar lol

[surreal hornet]

so 1/4 or 1/3 (or even 1/2) of all hits autowound at ap2

[lilac wasp]

Seems to be the case

[ancient robin]

Guys should I start handing out alcohol at this rate

[fallen falcon]

If every primarch is ew -2 which is probable doing one damage is the same as doing 3

[late sparrow]

We don't know anything about that yet.

[ancient robin]

Feel like we all need a drink before the day is done

[trim seal]

Ill take a shot

[surreal hornet]

If his mace does D2 (or more) hes better

[dull jewel]

I think we're lacking some height rules

[lilac wasp]

I chose a bad time to take a break from drinking

[modern surge]

I kinda like the whole mini primarch thing, if solely because i want father and son fights to be close and for it not be a dog vs a shot gun type of deal

[dull jewel]

height was pretty important in 4th

[surreal hornet]

corax wont be able to kill marines and terminators properly

[signal hinge]

Are IF +1 to Hit if 5 shots per gun or per unit ?

https://tenor.com/view/michael-nouri-i-want-answers-now-gif-12471642

[surreal hornet]

probably literally worse than generic characters at killing regular units

[shut dock]

My guess is WYSIWG will remain forever and we’ll never have any termi or bike consuls

[kindred needle]

wym just roll 6s

[wraith plank]

do we have stat for chainsword nad chainaxe?

[molten coral]

We can post small snippets right?

[molten torrent]

I JUST got a forgelord and Thallax for him and they've been nuked

[lyric canopy]

Suddenly the perty gambit is amazing against a primarch. Here's 10 snap shotting multi melta's, have funnnnn

[shut dock]

True just roll all 6s

[elfin lynx]

I was thinking more the boring codexes lol. Would unironically like to see height rules back tho.

[kindred ledge]

White Scars detachment and Prime benefits pls? (I need to know if the bike army works)

[lilac wasp]

Hah yeah I have 2 forgelords (pa and cata) with 12 thallax

[timid cliff]

Are there more leaks then the 16images un the imgut album?

[onyx condor]

Oof, Corax got hit hard.

[molten torrent]

Who was smoking crack while making these rules

[kindred needle]

edition confirmed written in 3 weeks after a corporate mandate

[timid cliff]

https://tenor.com/view/angry-gary-oldman-everyone-gif-14317847

[thorny jacinth]

I see this thread is going very well

[gaunt ermine]

Has anyone seen any imperial fist rules yet?

[molten torrent]

No because it was a GW in-house leak so they're slowly going to "leak" it over the next few days

[shut dock]

Dont worry hes an army buffer now

[lyric canopy]

Unironically if EW2 is the peak of primarchs rules than dear god will the game become a primarch hunting game with melta

[timid cliff]

Meh, boring

[molten torrent]

Im gonna kms

[kindred ledge]

+1 attack on Bolters and auto Bolters iirc

[fallen falcon]

It won’t be the peak but like

[fair coral]

Artificer armor is dead on basic units so I can die happy

[dull jewel]

yeah lol, they didn't cook a lot of stuff
I hope it's a bit like in tow where the expansions functionally double the content of the books

[fiery widget]

I don't even need to add the qualifier, I just like it

[wraith plank]

I'm just glad that artificer armor is dead

[trim jetty]

forge lord gone also

[molten torrent]

The fact the "leaker" cherry picked pages and showed the loyalist glossary and not the traitor one is a dead giveaway

[shut dock]

It’ll become a primarch in a deathstar with a 10 man terminator + apothecary woundpool

[fallen falcon]

3 will be, multi Meltas are ridiculous

[silent yoke]

It’s two different books….

[kindred ledge]

If my Headhunters still get combi melta's and a Multi-melta....

[ancient robin]

They are separate books remember?

[molten torrent]

I know

[shut dock]

We wanted a more narrative experience so techmarines and apothecaries can do more so we removed their cool consul variants

[fallen falcon]

Even gw has been trying to talk people down off the MM cliff in recent articles

[silent yoke]

Remove the tin foil. Didn’t we already do this

[surreal hornet]

turn 1 snipe the primarch

[fiery widget]

This would make 0 sense

[molten torrent]

They still cherry picked pages at random, its obvious an inside leak

[sleek hazel]

what are you gonna say next if it is a point upgrade

[modern surge]

i need a drink

[kindred ledge]

Exactly, which they already do with characters, but more yes

[indigo kiln]

I'm not sold on you knowing things in general rn

[shut dock]

The first thing people would leak is imperial fist rules and not raven guard and space wolves

[ancient robin]

Sat save some for me boss

[dull jewel]

I can already smell the salt mines producing away

[elfin lynx]

https://tenor.com/view/flying-high-gif-20311531

[thorny jacinth]

They cherry picked pages they were asked for by people on this very site

[late sparrow]

Might just be the only book they have.

[molten torrent]

I just hope my Nightlords unique models aren't terrible

[dark lion]

oh yeah, art armor sergeants being gone is a strict improvement

[shut dock]

Well we arent in yhe 2018-2020 resin heresy zone so they’ll be good hopefully

[molten torrent]

Well I didn't know that did I? Also i know people are annoyed at the changes but dont take it out on me

[lilac wasp]

GW intentionally putting SW players on suicide watch seems cruel and unnecessary

[fallen falcon]

Yeah there’s some bad stuff and some good stuff

[onyx condor]

FUCK!!!!!

[digital igloo]

Pretty gutted about Mor Deythan... again. Have glued on this week 30+ combi-volkite. I guess I should have known better.

[fiery widget]

I actually think its warranted for Prospero

[elfin lynx]

having lots of fun with legion-based ego-death rn

[lilac wasp]

Why make the fun party boys so sad

[molten torrent]

How else would they balance your 40k refresh

[fallen falcon]

SW players after years of being the best legion in the game

[shut dock]

“You’ll be a Veteran Tactical squad now”

[lyric canopy]

I just need to see the salamander rules.

I am already miffed that despite being the goddamm poster bois of 3.0 GW couldn't be bothered to give us a named character. I atleast hope we have solid rules and an apex detachment to go along our aux

[wraith plank]

yeah, even if there are other downgrade, the fact that arti spam is no longer a thing makes the rule an overall improvement, because it means they actually went into what made 2e problematic

[blazing zinc]

They will be

[bright cave]

Color me…not impressed. At all. There new article was right, this wasn’t evolution but revolution. Le sigh

[fickle thorn]

Being real, the fact that Raven Guard and Iron Hands rules were leaked 2nd and 3rd to me disproves that it was GW.

No shot do they do anything for those two legions 2nd and 3rd besides forget them.

[lilac wasp]

Oh ok so you never played 2.0? Got it

[digital igloo]

I guess I need to print 30+ Sniper bolters .lol

[opaque verge]

man, looking at outriders, if extra weapon/pistol really doesn't give an extra attack anymore tey are gonna be REAL REAL sad in melee :(

[tropic solar]

night lords don't deserve good rules

[fallen falcon]

https://tenor.com/view/the-rock-smell-wwe-gif-15916777

[dark lion]

You WILL run the legacies goobers and you WILL enjoy it

[molten coral]

Can confirm. The leaker got the book early from a FLGS and is a loyalist player. Me and some friends have been asking about various stuff. One of the players is a RG player and we have been mocking him about it for months now. It isnt a inside leak.

[shut dock]

They were already sad in melee tbh

[opaque verge]

hey, just cause your right doesn't mean your correct

[blazing zinc]

They already lost night fighting... what more can they take???

[lilac wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/fake-news-trump-gif-22804577

[molten torrent]

Well that confirms it then nvm

[opaque verge]

doesn't mean I can't hope for a change :(

[molten coral]

Or if it is an inside leak fuck he got me too lol

[dark moth]

I mean Night Lords were objectively the least useful legion 😛

[delicate mist]

WHATSUP FUCKOS, WHAT WE SALTY ABOUT TODAY

[near hull]

The rules article earlier does specify the pistol/melee boost is gone

[idle falcon]

Atramentar gone

[shut dock]

Raven guard

[ancient robin]

Rules

[molten torrent]

Lots of gear options got nuked and removed

[ancient robin]

And their consequences

[boreal hearth]

The leaker is only posting Raven gaurd

[safe oar]

I THINK THE RULES ARE SO FAR LOOKING ALRIGHT

[dull jewel]

legion rules seem they were done in a hurry
SW players on suicide watch
RG seems a bit busted

[delicate mist]

Aw but their trait looks good

[lilac wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/4isnothere-gif-8871333462802370474

[dark lion]

Look in pins, you can find the current up to date leaks

[heavy wind]

Yea it’s over

[elfin lynx]

I am looking forward to tolerating this edition!

[molten torrent]

They're pretending to be 40k 10th edition and making it Gear is box/kit locked

[shut dock]

Mor Deythan got taken outback and Corvus cant kill terminators its so over. He does have an insane army buff tho

[patent radish]

I'm fine with just about everything so far except for the (apparent) loss of terminator consuls. That's just dumb and needless unless they're REALLY insistent on shifting their FW resin guys

[kindred needle]

gw getting rid of the best parts of heresy (customizing all your little centurion goobers)

[dull jewel]

look poster boy, you win some you lose some

[solemn reef]

can you ask them to please post pages for the tactical and despoiler squads alongside the vets

[late sparrow]

Suffering for the sins of last edition is a common thing for GW to do.

[heavy wind]

Our legion wasn’t even even that crazy last ed

[balmy creek]

Remember when I said they didn't preview legion units because of backlash and you said I was a dumb stinky mean rabbit

[onyx condor]

Who the fuck let the dumbasses who wrote 10e near the units?

[pale basalt]

https://tenor.com/view/bunnies-george-point-of-mice-and-men-gif-16131327

[molten coral]

Apparently the store in question had a Mech book available and someone is going to grab the traitor book Friday.

Although I probably wont get leaks for those because it will be a friend of a friend of a friend to me to you otherwise

[molten torrent]

Ikr

[delicate mist]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[shut dock]

Centurions gonna be rocking the chainsword, bolter and bolt pistol armament forever (they didnt get other options)

[boreal hearth]

Also I can’t keep up what gear got nuked and taken out???

[fiery widget]

This is still nothing like 10th

[delicate mist]

Hmm alright, I know just what to do. As you were. Popcorn and lurk.

[heavy wind]

They made the game necromunda

[late sparrow]

Honestly no problem with that.

[safe oar]

Honoured for the pin

[elfin lynx]

Centurions Consuls are gonna be 2+/5++ anyway, right? Like that sounds like a terminator to me, all that's missing is the extra W or two and I guess subtype stuff

[onyx condor]

Even though wargear options got nuked?

[fickle thorn]

I really love the fact that a random fuck guy in Faturnine armor has comparable stats to a fucking primarch.

[molten torrent]

Why the actual fuck did they remove so many weapon options? Why are they trying to streamline gear like 10th ed but adding stats from necromunda? What's going on man

[nimble cloak]

If centurion got that bat then Solar might be having no melee options for companions

[dark lion]

artificer armor on sergeants🙏

[wraith plank]

there's no longer centurion consul, consuls are just consul

[shut dock]

I would be scared for Sons of Horus and Wargear options but like they already murdered Reaver customisation in 2nd Edition so I have literally nothing left to lose now lmao.

[molten torrent]

You're kidding

[heavy wind]

Truly a great day

[modern surge]

DOWN WITH ARTI

[dark lion]

Check the pins

[near hull]

I'm so happy

[patent radish]

It goes both ways - Assault squads got a ton of new options mostly related to chainaxes

[wraith plank]

centurion still has terminator armor option

[dull jewel]

kinda?

[bright cave]

They nuked the SW speaker of the dead

[tropic solar]

they've had 4 years to think about it, you've had 15 minutes. save your woes for when the book comes out

[formal pivot]

Okay I'm trying to find a link to the Imgur Gallery can anyone hook me up with that please?

[kindred needle]

but only the centurion

[molten torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/jump-out-window-suicide-quit-gif-14954656

[heavy wind]

No more arti tanking I will accept the sacrifice of my legion for this

[clear basin]

I came in here to see if people were excited.

[nimble cloak]

doesn't look like it for assault mariens

[solemn reef]

https://tenor.com/view/chill-chill-chill-jimmy-butler-starting-5-relax-emo-gif-18182696291847390165

[dull jewel]

I quite like Necro, but idk about the legion rules

[bronze oxide]

rips 50+ chainaxes off assault marines

Guess what weapon assault marines now get as an option...

[patent radish]

Which at least somewhat softens the blow, one of my consuls can fairly easily be swapped to a Centurion

[fickle thorn]

[dark lion]

The first person who likes art armor tanking. Incredible

[dull jewel]

the rites of war seem a bit not much

[molten torrent]

No fun allowed!!! No flavour allowed!!!

[boreal hearth]

So what hold up some one said we no longer have war gear options??

[surreal hornet]

Oh wait, furies still get an extra sarge

[shut dock]

They nuked mor deythan wargear options

[safe oar]

I believe we have less wargear options

[fiery widget]

Very much so, but anxious for Dark Angels and EC rules. Not because im worried but because I am impatient

[surreal hornet]

just not 2 more since theyre capped at 10 man now

[wraith plank]

but again, FW did released a esoterist in cataphractii, so there might be other possibilities still

[heavy wind]

Yep all wargear options are gone the only weapon in the game is the bolter now

[shut dock]

Also good lord 15 second slow mode 😭

[kindred needle]

oh yeah twin weapons confirmed to each be a separate wargear entry as well

[bright cave]

The amount they nuked is…astounding. Whole armies and painted models now no longer legal 😅😒

[thorny jacinth]

That makes no sense, because they ADDED that option

[molten torrent]

https://tenor.com/view/1984-skander-big-brother-gif-21303304

[patent radish]

That dude came out years ago in 1.0, I wouldn't take him as indicative of anything

[indigo kiln]

Too fast imo

[idle falcon]

Based

[kindred needle]

we don't learn our lessons here gentlepeople

[dark lion]

The salt is too much

[molten torrent]

"you will only use whats in your kit and you will enjoy it"

[wraith plank]

plus legacy unit pdf is due to release in aug iirc? just wait

[heavy wind]

The game is now balanced

[shut dock]

Dont worry we have veteran tacticals still

[pale basalt]

it was the safe option

[boreal hearth]

So I probs lost my Asphyx bolter then for Tsons

[dark lion]

Chat, can we kill this person

[lilac wasp]

https://tenor.com/view/cut-my-life-to-pieces-papa-roach-last-resort-jumping-gif-14648707

[opaque verge]

i actually believe its near day 1 iirc

[modern surge]

SIMMMERRR

[wraith plank]

oh is it? even ebtter

[sweet geyser]

Skill issue

[molten torrent]

Why the artificer armour hate

[delicate mist]

So no combi volkite on mor deythan, good. Looks like they've been shifted into a sniper roll now. Bs7 is critical hits on 5s? Or 6s?

[near hull]

5s

[heavy wind]

Nah I’m fucking with ya you probably have em we just don’t know yet

[onyx condor]

Honestly. People go apeshit on arteficer armor way too much. They're using it as a latching point to ignore the fact 10e writers were allowed to gut several units.

[last bone]

Wait they're BS7?

[dark lion]

Have you ever played against art armor tanking

[near hull]

They can do a +2BS ability once per game

[opaque verge]

once per game if they sit still they go to BS 7

[heavy wind]

I HATED that shit

[molten torrent]

When I say "no flavour allowed" I mean gear, this is such a weird decision

[delicate mist]

That's really solid. Why are people mad?

[stark stirrup]

because change

[fiery widget]

One special elite unit losing wargear options does not = wargear has been nuked you can only use what's in the box.

[dark lion]

People gotta be salty

[opaque verge]

its not rending 4+ combi volkite XD

[silent yoke]

Have you played a game of heresy in 2.0?

[molten torrent]

No because I only play friendly casual games at my flgs, not against sweaty meta loophole abusers

[heavy wind]

Because the sky is falling millions must die

[near hull]

A number of units we've seen have lost wargear options. Assaults got chainaxes now, at least!

[delicate mist]

GOOD

[blazing zinc]

You don't like being immune to ap 3 until you lose a game of russian roulette?

[molten torrent]

Yes but purely casually at my flgs, where noone has ever abused art armour like that ever?

[onyx condor]

Problem is with how piecemeal the leaker is being we don't know what the others are like.

[nimble cloak]

It might be also because they want to cut in how versatile a unit is without absolutely costing certain weapons out the arse.

[delicate mist]

Might help with my decision paralysis at least xD

[heavy wind]

The arti tanking brainworm was deep alot of people who played casually did it

[lilac wasp]

My local didn’t ever do it. One of our unwritten

[rose chasm]

I NEED more clarification for the IF Legion rule PLEASE.

Otherwise only gonna work on rapiers????

[silent yoke]

It’s not abuse. It was raw. That’s why the hate.

[ancient robin]

https://tenor.com/view/cause-fuck-em-fuck-em-fuck-them-fuck-thats-why-gif-7721281197753821481

I just wanna use this gif for no particular reason

[short tiger]

Yup

[dark lion]

You know what, more power to you. Your locals seem normal🫡

[formal pivot]

I mean dropping War gear options is sadly a way to combat third party bits vendors and 3D printers.

[near hull]

Yeah true

[molten torrent]

Well I never experienced it where I play

[fiery widget]

They don't come with shotguns in their kit, but you can take those...

[lilac wasp]

And fun!

[late sparrow]

Chainaxes being free even for non world eaters means there's some kind of catch to them.
I'm expecting -1 initiative.

[shut dock]

I took an arti sergeant for one game and then he whiffed the first save so i never took them again. Then again half my troops have been inductii so I never really noticed the difference anyway

[trim seal]

It doesn't combat it thou

[wraith plank]

also looks like sv2+ really got toned down, dark fury squad is sv3+ all around, just w2

[short tiger]

As far as I know, nope

You buy a terminator praetor/centurion as a different unit like now

[ancient robin]

Mate... Just because you haven't doesn't mean a lot of other people haven't

[exotic marsh]

we got anything bar ravenguard photos so far?

[lilac wasp]

We need to take away gear options because people’s units look too unique! We need more generic marines!

[solemn oak]

I'm sure they're in there. But it's odd they're gone to PDF land

[shut dock]

Space Wolves

[molten torrent]

I get you're annoyed at the changes but again, don't aim it at me, I'm just saying I never experienced it lol

[trim seal]

Ah thanks mate

[exotic marsh]

russ?

[near hull]

We got Assaults, scimitars, part of SW, outriders,

[fickle thorn]

Allegedly some IH rules, but no confirmations

[digital igloo]

Still grappling with that from 1.0. to 2.0. lol

[heavy wind]

All I know is I’m no longer a space wolf player I now was always a RG player

[dark lion]

Going up in points is also a good sign. Hope all the other ws 5 goober squads aren't also 175 points for some inexplicable reason

[rose chasm]

Can you confirm this is the fist rule 🙏

[gaunt ermine]

Anytime to get entire book pdf? 😁

[patent radish]

I doubt the removal of wargear has anything to do with 3d printing. It's far more likely an attempt to more strictly define unit roles/niches.

[idle falcon]

"Man it sucks that my uncle died in a car accident"
"Well I've never been hit by a car"

[tropic solar]

I'll save him the trouble, he can't

[molten torrent]

I'm not incredibly worried about how Inductii will be changed...

[tropic solar]

(i presume)

[shut dock]

GW cant do worse things to my sons of horus wargear options after they removed reaver options. All I can really do is hope the rite of war is alright

[short tiger]

I couldn’t say because I don’t know

[molten coral]

I did ask.

[rose chasm]

Nooooo

[trim seal]

100% and if double weapons is gone it means not every unit is not a meat grinder

[solemn oak]

I want to know my iron warriors 😭

[wraith plank]

maybe reavers are just veteran assault squad with legion specific weapon upgrade

[molten coral]

But there are two seperations between me and the loyalist book in the wild

[sweet geyser]

Grief stage: Denial

[lyric canopy]

For some stuff It also didn't really matter that they could take some other stuff. LIke, why would anyone ever run firedrakes without shields and hammers

[ancient robin]

Maybe the heresy was just the friends we maimed along the way

[patent radish]

Frankly I hope they're drastically changed. Half the Inductii options were no-brainer upgrades to standard troops, and the other half were almost unusuably bad

[shut dock]

💀

[short tiger]

That’s what I was told the IH trait was if that’s any consolation, one of the few ones to make it through basically the same

[molten torrent]

I agree it's a stupid thing, I was just explaining why I didn't understand as it hadnt happened to me, no need to make fun of me lmao

[dark lion]

3 editions, no changes. You can't fix perfection I'm telling you

[patent radish]

Yep, and alchem flamers on Grave Wardens were literally just a noob trap

[molten torrent]

True actually, NL Inductii are barely any different

[shut dock]

Look maybe we’ll keep our -1 strength in melee for yhe first turn maybe… maybe…

[signal hinge]

https://tenor.com/bLZio.gif

[digital igloo]

The fun of a FW/Specialist game was in equipping units via kitbash. That's gone.

[wraith plank]

eh, I don't hate it, would be great if they had kept the specific unit, but I don't hate it

[shut dock]

Also this tbh. 1st Ed had a lot of unit flexibility at times, even 2nd ed with legion armouries

[molten torrent]

I hope they redeem themselves a little with Inductii rules and some other stuff

[idle falcon]

No hate meant my friend, but yeah the general opinion is that artificer armour on sergeants led to a lot of annoying gameplay

[wraith plank]

kitbash options are definitely still there, the amount of assault squad option should be an indication

[molten torrent]

Fully agree, awful decision on their end

[onyx condor]

Yeah it REEKS of 10e rules writers sticking their noses in the game.

[hard pewter]

Anyone seen anything on WS yet? Trying to find out if I even own a legal army anymore

[delicate mist]

Artificer tanking has given me he most horrible play experiences qt time his edition. When my opponent tanked 25 ap3 wounds on a sergeant was just so unfun. I am behind glad it's gone.

[shut dock]

Jfc

[gaunt ermine]

I don’t like that, seeing RG, is snap shooting when distance of 18 or more. Making bolters and auto +1 on 5 or more shots seems weird.

[fallen falcon]

My take on art armor is that they could’ve found a a way to keep it without letting you face tank multiple units

[safe oar]

Hold on, where is this narrative that wargear is being nuked, mor dathan, a known sniping unit, losing one option is not cause for alarm

[ancient robin]

Cheers mate I'll drink to that

[exotic marsh]

nothing new it would seem so far

[molten torrent]

Honestly I used those Pts for prey sight during night fighting, but now that it's gone I can get other stuff I guess?

[short tiger]

Nothing to do with the main studio, the lack of kitbashing is from On High

It’s the legal afterglow of the Chapterhouse lawsuit still

[dark lion]

Ehhh I'll still wait to see more than just the rules for mor deythan before complaining about it

[digital igloo]

The removal of killing closest model/Look Out Sir definitely caused this problem. Really needed both of those to exist with that option.

[lyric canopy]

https://tenor.com/view/exorcism-father-mulvehill-evil-z-is-for-zombies-get-out-evil-spirit-gif-468896802094846995

[fallen falcon]

And that that would be the best option

[shut dock]

Issue is GW has been making AP2 somewhat uncommon since 2nd ed so this was only natural

[delicate mist]

https://tenor.com/view/cheers-gif-18064774

[wraith plank]

I mean, this isn't bad at all

[onyx condor]

Honestly Chapterhouse is living rent free in GW's head at all of our expense.

[shut dock]

In 1st you could pay like 20ppm on a TSS and have a squad of AP2 strength 7 guys who obliterate any squad without pause

[idle falcon]

I would be very careful about looking at a single unit and drawing the conclusion that "kitbashing is dead"

[wraith plank]

it wish it was worded better though

[sweet geyser]

The concern is for the legion units. Generic seems fine

[molten torrent]

Explain the chapterhouse situation to me like I'm a caveman

[shut dock]

no charnabal variety
Its over…

[hexed saddle]

So gamers did they gut the wargear this editon ?

[solemn oak]

Maybe I'm blind. But where are options removed? The assaults look pretty much the same?

[modern surge]

OH I WAS RIGHT, THERE IS A HEAVY CHAIN AXE YIPEEEE

[deft fox]

I just threw shotguns on my salamander recon squad

[molten torrent]

wait why, they previewed charnabal changes before, is it literally just for veterans now?

[elfin lynx]

yes!, and, no

[near hull]

Legion uniques, but that's been rumoured a long while

[dark lion]

Some got cut. But some also got added. IMO, it's too early to say for the edition as whole

[dim pasture]

Chain axes for every one

[safe oar]

This!?!?!!

[lyric canopy]

At this point I am 90% sure GW both had AI write their rules while making it as wordy as possible to counter some weird RAW arguments

[patent radish]

They've gained options. It's an example for while saying kitbashing is dead is way premature.

[onyx condor]

3d party comoany got cocky with IP. GW was traumatized for life because they lost the suit because they didn't MAKE the models they gave rules for.

[shut dock]

Its specifically sabres for the assault squad

[molten torrent]

And now we suffer for it... Epic

[median hawk]

They were traumatised as Chapter House tried to invalidate every copyright / trademark they actually had a reasonable claim to lol.

[wraith plank]

yes and no, they streamlined it by a lot, but some options did get lost, although it's still looking way ahead of the abomination known as 10e

[regal gulch]

With GW it will haunt them forever

[hexed saddle]

It'll probably just pop up in a later journal so you need to buy half the journals just to run your army

[elfin lynx]

and, notably, some bigger laywers came in on chapterhouse's side because the case would have impacts in the wider world of aftermarket car parts

[digital igloo]

Wait, combat shield is now in place of bolt pistol?

[heavy wind]

Recons come with shotguns

[delicate mist]

Fuck me corax is move 16

[wraith plank]

it's an option it seems

[deft fox]

Woohoo

[regal gulch]

Yes because the change to the model

[delicate mist]

Do we know what his shadowed lord ability is?

[fiery widget]

Yall its one unit lost combi weapon spam. Like it sucks, but the dedicated infiltrator guys having snipers or shotguns makes sense.

We still have tons of options

[shut dock]

Wtf thats not model accurate

[near hull]

He can whip them to help him escape combat

[molten torrent]

They hold the shields with their hand, they have no pistol

[onyx condor]

Holy shit really?

[solemn oak]

Isn't the raven guard armory right there? I'm not gonna pretend I'm not worried. But what is missing? I play iron warriors so my options were already sparse.

[shut dock]

It sets a tone for the other special unit like say headhunters who may also lose the combi weapons spam

[safe oar]

More of this please preach king

[bronze oxide]

Gws new heresy thursday
*mr crabs voice

"Buy the new legiones tactica-wargear"

"Pay us £20 to use the wargear that should have been in the liber anyway"

[exotic marsh]

its on the imagur in the pinned area

[desert girder]

GW used to have units in codexes that didnt have models released yet, like in 5th edition, there was no official Thunderwolf cavalry model released, so people would convert their own. GW intended to eventually release them, but was normally fine with just haveing the rules in the mean time.

Chapter house began selling their proxy models but calling them Thunderwolf cavalry, GW sued, Chapterhouse argued that they cant enforce copywrite on a model they dont even sell. Chapterhouse eventually lost, but the aftermath was GW no longer wanting rules or unit options to exist that werent in the box.

[delicate mist]

Ah I must bot have all the leaks yet

[hard pewter]

yeah this is definitely a valid concern

[digital igloo]

Hopefull a day "should be 1, probably 100" FAQ.

[near hull]

Legion weapons still there, but the notable example people are complaining about is Mor Deythan losing their combi weapons. They can only take nemesis bolters and shotguns now

[safe oar]

People’s morale is breaking over a single weapon option

[molten torrent]

[sweet geyser]

Chapterhouse was also decided in like 2013 and there had already been cuts to model choice and wargear before 2.0 was announced in other games. It is interesting they gave those options in 2022 but would cut them now

[shut dock]

Did they lose infravisors as well?

[lyric canopy]

Good thing is that in 3.0 is seems that Melta will deal with primarchs lickety split mate

[wraith plank]

would be great if whoever leaking could take a screen of 'legion melee weapon list'

[bronze oxide]

This stuff is worrying

[stark stirrup]

Ld3 moment

[desert girder]

The ravenguard rules are completely bonkers, as a world eater fan, I'm so pissed at my legion rule compared to that.

[winged vapor]

The rg legion trait is insane.

[lyric canopy]

Just bake that bird with 6 damage shots that he only reduces to 4 lol

[shut dock]

You can be a raven eater fan now!

[digital igloo]

Now nerfed in two successive editions.
Do we know what Critical Hit does?

[hard pewter]

those are called Carcharadons

[winged vapor]

Wtf is that...

[mental bridge]

uh no

[elfin lynx]

like, try to find something from a third party that works with your car if they're not allowed to use a phrase like 'honda civic' or whatever

[delicate mist]

Only within 6 though right?

[near hull]

+1D and autowound on a hit of X+

[patent radish]

Tbf, you guys will have an entire other Legion rule which might well be bonkers too

[crisp tulip]

As a non-WE player, WE rules look very fun.

Fluffy and its basically a psudeo-fearless

[exotic marsh]

auto wounds and becomes damage+1

[lyric canopy]

If it's half distance than Multi melta's will bake him at 12" no problem

[kindred needle]

consider that the exemplary battles book for 2nd was a "volume 1" but there will never be a volume 2 now. my guess is 3.0 was decided very shortly before its inception and 2.0 was originally planned to run much longer

[delicate mist]

I'll be saving a movement reaction for sure against any meltas xD if I've got move 16, good luck

[near hull]

Indeed
But no night fighting anyway

[digital igloo]

Hmm, I guess that isn't awful? No effect on AP, though?

[kindred needle]

do we have traitor rules somewhere

[hard pewter]

they made the wrong choice

[surreal hornet]

wasnt it the parasite of mortex?

[molten torrent]

Why did they make Primarchs so pathetic

[shut dock]

Ballistic skill tho,,,

[crisp tulip]

GW showed off their Trait in an article

[elfin lynx]

my understanding is that covid threw a wrench in the whole shape of plans for 2.0

[near hull]

They can be BS7 once per game. Be fine

[delicate mist]

Haven't we only seen one primarch?

[safe oar]

Because the rules they give to the army are cracked

[shut dock]

Its just corvus rn, if they make ferrus unable to murder a knight in one turn then its over

[desert girder]

I dont like the idea that they made my main rules trash just so they can make the very late stage heresy rules the actually good ones. I dont want to play Khorne Berserkers in both games, nothing was wrong with +1 attack on the charge.

[kindred needle]

3.0 feels like a rush job in many ways tbf

[lyric canopy]

We do have Vulkans stats, where he lost a point of his invul

[desert girder]

3.0 feels like a lot of unessecary changes being made by people that havent played the game.

[safe oar]

Primarchs soloing an entire army like in 2nd vs being a supreme commander unit that enhances your army take your pick

[exotic marsh]

apart from the GW shown ones not yet

[fickle thorn]

Stg if Ferrus can’t take down a super heavy in one turn still

[molten torrent]

Like everything lately, rules wise

[lyric canopy]

yeah, but stat line is a statline

[kindred needle]

3.0 mostly feels like a 8th-9th style game with some older elements shoehorned back in for nostalgia's sake

[onyx condor]

Yeah, I mean with how much word bloat the book has, it feels like something happened in house.

[dark lion]

welcome to post 1st edition heresy!

[tawny bay]

Bikes gained shotguns, but lose melta guns and flamers 😦

[shut dock]

I think this isnt really a good defence of the blender primarch whose first impression to heresy fans was slaughtering the gal vorbak and gutting lorgar now is just scratching terminators poorly bc GW didnt wanna make his claws damage 2

[fiery widget]

Andy and Neil some of the main designers since HH 1.0 have most likely played the game

[wraith plank]

I'd argue they must have played the game to get rid of artificer spam on base unit

[desert girder]

Corax lets you make all your tacticals and assaults force disordered charges against them, so your opponent sucks at shooting them, and sucks at charging them. He's bonkers

[swift gull]

I’ve head there’s new leaks, possibly libre flavoured, can anyone maybe point me in the direction of them in my DMs 🙂

[patent radish]

Doesn't evidence point to it being the other way around, with 2.0 being the rush job trammeled by Covid and 3.0 is more what the team originally was planning on pursuing with an edition changeover?

[molten torrent]

Id Kurze can't run across the bought and make everyone shit themselves after killing a squad, I'll riot

[bright cave]

Gimme more SW pages! And the sichten! Need to know if my omega boy survived

[lyric canopy]

Non zero oddds of AI being used to "help" with the writing

[bleak marlin]

miss your sarge tanking 80 volkite much????

[safe oar]

I’m sure that can still happen? He’s not anemic

[shut dock]

Corax’s buffs are insane but i do feel his claws being D2 wouldnt be a game breaker

[onyx condor]

Yeah it's starting to feel like he's trying to force positivity down our throats.

[delicate mist]

I quite like corax, ngl, he looks fun to play with. Not crazy damage output but he's decent to good in combat vs most things, he's insanely fast, with the legion rule he can straight up reaction into you having to snapshot him. I think he'll be really fun to use but not horrible overpowered if he somehow gets jumped by a 10 man terminator squad (how they'll get to him though I have no idea)

[kindred needle]

just look at rending and critical hits -- both have the same functionality (with critical hits also increasing damage by 1)... but rending is three times as long, because it has a lot of extra bloat

[wraith plank]

for rule written by people who never played, see shattered legion

[shut dock]

Going down to damage 1 is gonna feel anaemic against 2W termies and bikes lol

[molten torrent]

So the primarchs may be wet noodles, but their special rules may be bonkers? Weird trade

[safe oar]

Don’t fight terminators and bikes?

[teal basalt]

rending is on wound rolls isnt it?

[surreal hornet]

I disagree with "decent to good in combat vs most things"

[green torrent]

bikes had shotguns

[pale basalt]

the normal ravens talon is almost better

[kindred needle]

nope they're both on hits

[tropic solar]

you ever read alpharius' 2e rules

[surreal hornet]

hes going to really struggle putting damage into anything heavier than marines

[shut dock]

Dawg its a primarch he should be able to cleave through terminators and bikes without much issue

[onyx condor]

Telling a Primarch NOT to fight against termies and bikes?

[molten torrent]

No

[delicate mist]

I mean he's still ws7 6 attacks with ap2 if he needs it and ap3 d2 if he wants that too

[desert girder]

You mean Neil, the guy that forgot that pistols dont give extra attacks with powerfists? Yeah, that doesnt sound like a guy that lives and breaths the game.

[surreal hornet]

he had instant death didnt he?

[nimble cloak]

decapitation strike gambit also works quite well for him

[kindred needle]

reading betrayer and wondering how the fuck this wimp ass corax beat up that one WB main character

[nimble cloak]

I think it comes down to if you can split attacks among your melee weapons

[molten torrent]

And the one who called heavy support, devastators?

[delicate mist]

But 90% of what you fight is marines? A terminator squad isn't getting anywhere near him

[surreal hornet]

8 attacks, but its only damage 1 (unless you get a crit), which means hes going to do not very much to multi wound units

[green torrent]

nah, that just locks players into "primarch is only able to hit the field if there is another primarch on the opposing side"

[safe oar]

Woe betide you having to pick and choose your fights

[shut dock]

Making his claws damage 2 wouldnt end the world. Hell make his whip like D3 damage or some shit lol

[fiery widget]

It would be insane to judge a guy who has been part of the entire games run off of making a verbal mistake during an interview

[onyx condor]

It feels like Corax got slapped with the -4 strength meme.

[lyric canopy]

The same article said that Multi melta's won't dominate lol

[nimble cloak]

but does ignore eternal warrior

[molten torrent]

Haven't there been several red flags that the people in the articles that have been adjusting the rules, don't actively play HH

[wraith plank]

do we know how ws interact in 3e yet

[onyx condor]

Dude you're acting pretentious right now.

[green torrent]

and then it devolves into "whoevers primarchs bashes hardest" and we have a high stakes game of tag instead of clash of titans

[lyric canopy]

so 1,0 and 2.0 in a nutshell?

[onyx condor]

Yeah I feel like they KNOW that Meltas are cracked since they're practically 8e Meltas.

[opaque verge]

i mean, every edition for all their games XD, except MESBG

[surreal hornet]

I suspect you dont need a 400pts primarch + his retinue (which he WILL have, lets he get murdered by heavy weapons, eternal warrior(2) isnt cutting it here) to kill tactical marines

[shut dock]

I just dont think making his claws damage 2 wouldnt be that game breaking lol

[safe oar]

Sorry if it sounds that way but we have seen one primarch and the consensus is that he’s bad, we don’t have a frame of reference yet

[pale basalt]

he is very good in primarch duels

[opaque verge]

that or his crit hit should have been better

[hard pewter]

we don't know that yet lol

[ancient robin]

does corvus not have crit hits

[lyric canopy]

Corax only reducing damage by 2 is already bloody funny since Melta's can be damage 6

[elfin lynx]

right! gw is pretty infamous for having a different in-house social contract for games than exists outside

[exotic marsh]

the eternal warrior 2 kinda means that all primarchs will do damage 1 into other primarchs so it will be a race to see who pumps out more attacks in the end right?

[near hull]

He does

[opaque verge]

6+

[shut dock]

Its on 6s

[hexed saddle]

https://tenor.com/view/its-bleak-bleak-its-peak-peak-homelander-gif-466413946589568151

[desert girder]

Its not just verbal mistakes, there are tons of red flags. Imagine looking at pistols and going, "you know what will make people use pistols, removing attacks from your unit for having them, then giving your opponent free overwatches on you" and trying to spin that as a "tactical choice".

No one who plays asault armies would ever look at that change and think its good.

[lusty vapor]

why are we only getting raven guard shit

[wraith plank]

maybe, but again, we already know that sv2+ is getting toned way down in 3e

[ancient robin]

dang

[delicate mist]

5s for shooting!

[lyric canopy]

Also, christ, primarchs can be one shot by that stupid 12D knight gun lmao

[pale basalt]

we know he has a lot of attacks and damage is kinda meangless

[surreal hornet]

possibly, although any primarch that reaches that damage(4) breakpoint will be very strong

[spice tide]

Because we’re the deserving ones

[ancient robin]

5+ would not have gone amiss

[wraith plank]

the majority of what you fielded would be 3+ grunts

[shut dock]

The leaker is bullying a guy in his GC

[hard pewter]

you're comparing him to nothing though

[surreal hornet]

so basically, anyone with d3 or better is set, because you just use the finishing blow stratagem

[exotic marsh]

possibly, looking at horus, ferrus and Vulkan maybe for those

[onyx condor]

MESBG has the divine protection of the Tolkien Estate on its side.

[surreal hornet]

but between his d1 and his "only" s6 hes going to struggle to fight primarchs too

[sweet geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/hannibal-buress-right-booing-gif-13861878

[hard pewter]

So far, nothing in this edition is making me excited for my melee armies

[balmy creek]

At last a use for my acastus

[fiery widget]

But the units gain that attack in their profile if they are a melee unit, and now you get to shoot your pistols before charging. I feel like yall are hyper fixating on stuff

[pale basalt]

i am comparing him to the assumption that most primarchs wont have damage 4+ melee weapons

and the khans weapon which we already saw

[lusty vapor]

im so upset about destroyers

[exotic marsh]

ohhhh didnt think of that

[elfin lynx]

blessings of iluvatar

[nocturne oasis]

Eh, chapterhouse was about their stormraven upgrade kit, and they won

[lyric canopy]

Ah yes, the Vulkan that in .20 had a one handed hammer with two handed rule and no brutal even tough it's a bloody hammer. I am keeping my hopes low

[indigo kiln]

If you're weird

[surreal hornet]

finishing blow might make him scary into normal dudes, since it essentially doubles his attacks

[opaque verge]

they'll be in legacies doc which is legal for all play.

[safe oar]

Most likely moved to legacy and GW mentioned they will
Support legacy so 🤷‍♂️

[pale basalt]

i can imagine we will get a jounal for them

[hidden flame]

What happened to destroyers?

[surreal hornet]

russ and lorgar were two of the previous "brutal havers" so they seem entirely possible too

[lyric canopy]

thanos snapped from the liber

[balmy creek]

They exist no more

[dark lion]

Not in the liber AFAIK

[near hull]

They're presumably legacied

[nocturne oasis]

Gone from the book

[opaque verge]

not in astartes book according to table of contents

[safe oar]

Not in the core book so we speculate it’s legacy

[crisp tulip]

https://tenor.com/view/pokemon-pokémon-slowpoke-glitter-sparkling-gif-9077674878617351176

[exotic marsh]

yea very true forgot about russ

[shut dock]

What is the point of legacies if they’re still gonna support it just shove it into the main libers and increase the page count + price lol

[wraith plank]

I think the main reason that lascannon spam and dread spam in 2e was due to 2+ saves literally everywhere, with 2+ saves toned down, other weapon options will become way more viable

[opaque verge]

no models or intent to give them models

[glad jacinth]

Destroyers are traitors-only now 😈

[pale basalt]

no

[hidden flame]

You gotta be shitting me. I was all excited to make a squad of them

[hard pewter]

honestly, not without points changes

[dark lion]

maybe, destroyers are an upgrade option to one of the units, but so far, we haven't seen it anything about them

[wraith plank]

I'm even tempted to being some volkite now

[bronze oxide]

https://tenor.com/view/thanos-you-will-cease-to-exist-infinity-war-snap-gif-11736794

[stark stirrup]

Have you not seen how furious everyone is about spending money on mere books

[elfin lynx]

the main libers are where the suits double-check things, the journals get to be just whatever

[desert girder]

You never want to shoot your pistols before charging, because every model you kill will be taken from the front and make your charge inches longer. Like, this is an understood principal in HH and 40k for the past decade.

[marble sail]

I am sure destroyers will have rules in legacies

[shut dock]

But they do have intent to give them models

[idle falcon]

So new players don't open their new rulebook and find a bunch of units they can't buy

[indigo kiln]

Why does this gif loop so quick

[fiery widget]

They 99% will still be in the game and playable

[elfin lynx]

I'm bullish on the Journals/pdfs (don't @ me when they're dogshit lol)

[surreal hornet]

melta is definetly going to shine this edition

[desert girder]

And your 10 pistol shots will never be better then the power weapon/chain axe attacks you used to get.

[opaque verge]

not if htey are legacied, that's the stated place for models they dont intend to give models to in HH now

[green torrent]

Yeah, he won only one in the lore, and it was against LULGAR (and also he didnt even win that decisively). Lore to gameplay transition handled well

[median hawk]

@hidden flame

As far as Destroyers go - I would wager they'll be in Legacies until Mark IV receives their scale / kit update, at which stage they'll be re-released in a Journal Tactica with new rules.

[lyric canopy]

Did the leaker wake up from his sieste with some more pics or is that little tease going to torture us for a bit more

[surreal hornet]

inb4 kurze also has equally dogshit weapons

[shut dock]

But in the last few warcomm articles they’ve said theymre gonna be giving units in legacies models

[fiery widget]

Never is a strong word when the average charge is a bit more reliable now

[wraith plank]

yeah, I'm looking forward to what various melta will look like

[opaque verge]

did they?

[hard pewter]

its still never

[lusty vapor]

can this guy leak the rest of the rules already

[pastel slate]

Real

[lyric canopy]

just please, salamanders stuff

[surreal hornet]

ask him what terranic greatswords are like

[shut dock]

Yeah

[molten coral]

Seems like we'll get a load of leaks soon elswhere

[late sparrow]

Fist wargear pictures would be awesome if you can get it.

[dark lion]

ask for veteran assaults and veteran tacticals

[ancient robin]

Yeah

[wraith plank]

with most melta platform being 3+ save, and 3+ save being easier to targeted

[hard pewter]

every model removed makes your charge 2" farther away

[lilac wasp]

Delete. Don’t get medders in trouble lol

[marble sail]

Yeah don't name sources

[dark lion]

Ohhhhhh, interesting

[wraith pasture]

Has the leaker made any updates

[nimble cloak]

Might make your charge 2" away

[summer bloom]

looks at the poor Sallies just 3 uniques

[ancient robin]

Not in a bit

[molten coral]

Oh yeah lol

[near hull]

May want to edit your own message haha

[opaque verge]

@shut dock I'm doing a text scan in the most recent articles I'm not seeing anything about models for legacy units.

[desert girder]

If you set up, and are 4 inches away, you shoot and now are 5 inches away, you just turned a 50% chance of successful charge to a 33%, who would ever risk that when all your value is in your melee weapons.

Meanwhile your opponent gets free better overwatch on you.
Its a dogshit change.

[balmy creek]

Word bearers trait is +1 combat res

[marble sail]

Yeah delete any messages with any specific creator name please guys

[lyric canopy]

Posters boys of 3.0 🙂

Poster boys of my arse GW

[summer bloom]

well they better start postering lol

[hard pewter]

Will. 32mm is more than an inch.

[marble sail]

Don't get a creator in shit for sharing stuff we are chomping at the bit for

[desert girder]

They are probably getting unique salamander Saturnine

[fiery widget]

Iirc overwatch is never free. Volley is

[pale basalt]

that would depend on their weapons

[fallen falcon]

PRAETORIAN BREACHERS WILL BE GOOD

PRAETORIAN BREACHERS WILL BE GOOD

PRAETORIAN BREACHERS WILL BE GOOD

[idle falcon]

One imagines by the end of the edition they'll have more than 3

[desert girder]

Every unit will at least have pistols

[dim pasture]

It's just assault army 101.

[fallen falcon]

MANIFEST IT

[kindred needle]

so this has nothing to do with things people actually care about but I'm really bloody fucking annoyed by how the rules for 3.0 went backwards when it comes to problem solving rules text compared to 2.0

(I.E. writing rules that only say what they do and not what they don't)

[pale basalt]

who cares about 10 bolt pistols hitting on 5+?

[lyric canopy]

Who knows, maybe we will get a few useless named characters in the legacies book again

[shut dock]

I remember seeing it once or twice and them mentioning they’ll be giving legion special units that didnt have models models + others keep mentioning it so

[molten coral]

Our leaker just got done in by fun police on Reddit

[delicate mist]

Aw did someone un-anonymise the leaker? Well that means we aren't getting any more leaks, sad times.

[green torrent]

aster crohne and kaedes nex were a legacy models that got minis and got promoted to main status

[lyric canopy]

That's not very cash money

[fiery widget]

Usually I agree yeah, but never is just too definite

[ancient robin]

I don't think that was the leaker

But what do I know at this point haha

[hard pewter]

The only time you would ever fire weapons before charging was to try and fish for pinning, which is no longer possible because you can't gain a status from Volley Fire

[marble sail]

It was unclear but we shoulden't use any names

[wraith plank]

oh and what was the IH tactica again? S-1 for enemy shooting army wide?

[fiery widget]

And besides, for the units you want fighting, the extra attack is still there...sooo

[opaque verge]

yeah and those thigns will be in the book, or be given rules when they come out, that does not mean 'legacies are getting models' when they've stated LEGACIES is where they are putting units wihtout models they don't intend to give models

[hard pewter]

down an attack overall

[delicate mist]

Ah okay I getcha

[lyric canopy]

basically their current rule without the vehicle stuff

[fiery widget]

True

[delicate mist]

Man seeing coraxs rules has my beyond hyped to see alpharius'

[desert girder]

The fact that every single charge now your going to have to wait for your opponent to roll them, and with models getting way less attacks, each lost model to a lucky bolt pistol shot is a heavy hit.

And in exchange you usually get 10 bolt pistol shots back, what a great trade off from extra power weapon or chain axe attacks!

[balmy creek]

Oh btw, content creators are on the lookout for leaks to report to gw

[timid cliff]

Its just dumb to use reddit for this

[opaque verge]

right, but that doesn't mean destroyers are, and i never said that doesn't happen, just that they don't intend to is what they've stated. Doesn't mean they can't do it later

[lyric canopy]

Man, what a bunch of snitches.

Probably just mad they werent the ones to get them lol

[dim pasture]

They kept that and just gutted my poor dogs

[digital igloo]

Here's to hoping there is no mk4 TWUE scale update.

[marble sail]

Good news is a new reddit account is free lol

[pale basalt]

are they getting less attacks?

furys have 5

assaults have 2 and chain swords might give +1

[hard pewter]

tbh probably a bounty system

[balmy creek]

No it's a condition of getting the stuff in advance

[upbeat tide]

Assault marines are base 2A now, but honestly I hate that change

[rose chasm]

No. It’s super stupid that shroud grenades are modeled in mor deythan yet it didn’t get rules

They have to be consistent with their dumb ass decisions

[fiery widget]

There 100% will be

[lyric canopy]

So sellout snitches 🙂

[bleak marlin]

can he drop the full IH section+breachers???

[marble sail]

I mean they also want clicks on the content they make

[shut dock]

We’ll have to wait and see but there is a some expectation they might give legacy special squads and such models so

[sweet geyser]

It isn't as good as 2.0 considering ID no longer exists

[solemn reef]

50 karma active or lurking

[upbeat tide]

Now tactical marines with chainswords are just worse. Units shouldn't have modified profiles when they're the same thing with different wargear

[opaque verge]

maybe for some not for most.

[marble sail]

I don't like it but I get it

[lyric canopy]

I mean...in 3.0 it no longer fucks with Instant death

[hard pewter]

they lose an attack to the time spent slinging their bolters, duh.

[safe oar]

Isn’t the Raven guard army ability far better than shroud

[lyric canopy]

that like 90% of its power in 2.0

[patent radish]

We did it reddit! The narwhal bacons at midnight for every leaker sent to a GW blacksite

[desert girder]

Furies also dont have pistols, which is the point.

Your average assault marine is only 2 attacks, my world eater assault marines used to get 4 on the charge, now they get 2.

Assault as a whole has been MASSIVELY nerfed.

[wraith plank]

am I getting this right? IH saturnine dread will get s-2 against melta?

[surreal hornet]

yes

[dim pasture]

Fair fair. I'm grasping at straws as I'm falling off a building currently

[hard pewter]

assault is way less lethal, especially with the loss of Sweep

[shut dock]

I may be getting flashbacks to 8th edition shooting galleries but we’ll have to wait and see how assault goes

[lyric canopy]

probably unless it doesn't stack, somehow

[fiery widget]

I think tactical marines should be worse in melee than despoilers

[kindred needle]

is this the first edition where there is less in the space marine army book than in the previous edition

[dark lion]

https://imgur.com/a/8oqENvc

[opaque verge]

it feels like, with these melee changes we are seeing and with some gun profiles (not the normal bolter and melta guns ofc) that there is a push overall to make the game less killy?

[pale basalt]

we havent seen chainswords

they might give more attacks

[hard pewter]

and Disengage is now free on every unit. So no more locking in combat to avoid getting blasted off the table

[shut dock]

True!

[surreal hornet]

csm 5e?

[kindred needle]

that's spiky

[upbeat tide]

They are, it's called not having chainswords for free and not having any special rules for melee

[indigo kiln]

We finally did it....

[dark lion]

THERE ARE UPDATES. And it's not just RG stuff too. We've got the wargear lists, and veteran tacticals and assaults

[fickle thorn]

It’s already that

[opaque verge]

like ALOT of ppl complained about the desparity between 'hard' melee units and everything else in melee, which is where these changes are prolly coming from. Though i do not agree with those ppl, a dedicated melee unit should roll over a nonmelee unit.

[balmy creek]

Veteran tacs now

[hard pewter]

the problem is they're not worse at surviving melee. Meaning that they just back up and shoot the shit out of you.

[upbeat tide]

Hot take: Two-wound terminators was the beginning of the end

[shut dock]

holy shit finally

[lilac wasp]

Pls Space Wolves units and armory

[fiery widget]

So then why can't despoilers take a bolter?

[celest lintel]

I posted 2 posts on reddit30K/ and got banned 😂

[lyric canopy]

huh, BS5 vets and the disintegrators are cheaper than i tought

[upbeat tide]

Because they're poor

[shut dock]

Adding onto this I had like 7 despoilers hold off 14 tactical marines in melee with just chainaxes. Thats how it should be and I dont want to hear otherwise

[fiery widget]

Not arguing that, im saying despoilers should be better at melee than tactical. And they are now

[fickle thorn]

I don’t think it’s much to ask that a primarch should be able to deal with terminators

[patent radish]

Thank goodness, I can put aside thinking up slurs for the RG (for now)

[idle falcon]

Veteran Tacs can take volkite chargers 🙏 but can't take chainswords 😭

[digital igloo]

Anybody seen the Veteran Assault page?

[desert girder]

The beginning of the end was Dreadnoughts becoming monstrous creatures, terminators could have had 2 wounds in 1.0.

[dark lion]

Anyways, assault vets look like they've got jump packs I think. Movement 12, antigrav. Looks like jump pack stuff. Also... all sergeant weapons. So all thunder hammers

[shut dock]

Corax should be fine with 2 damage on his talons just give his whip some exploding wounds or something to give it anti blob utility

[formal pivot]

Bro where? The mega?

[pale basalt]

only charnabal sabres now

the rest seem to be gone

[dark lion]

https://imgur.com/a/8oqENvc

[hard pewter]

anyone else think the way the wargear is listed is just...lazy?

[lyric canopy]

Huh....WS5 Assault vets are neato, also combi grav?

[molten coral]

So I guess the traitor rules leaked

[nimble cloak]

looks like centurions don't just have to have chainswords then

[kindred needle]

it's calling back to 40K 3rd edition but it just looks worse than the way it was presented in HH2

[shut dock]

Source is made up until pics tbh

[dark lion]

I like how it's universal now. It being IW exclusive was weird

[untold pollen]

where?

[crystal granite]

Only people who are indifferent to the game and have space for five photos on their phone seem to get early access.

[delicate mist]

Yo vets with the glow up

[shut dock]

Please be safe sons of horus PLEASE

[upbeat tide]

At least they seem to have all of the wargear options for guns

[kindred needle]

20 points autocannons jesus. maybe they are going to be D2 after all

[dark lion]

I'm loving jump pack vets

[molten coral]

No idea I'm going off that meme I posted. I can only guess it will be leaked into here eventually

[dark lion]

A bunch of jump pack dudes with thunder hammers

[nimble cloak]

Veterans are better vanguard but they are 5 models per unit rather than 10

[upbeat tide]

What's the word bearers trait?

[tribal jetty]

so no non-jump melee veterans

[untold pollen]

well word bearers always suck and they derserve it

[delicate mist]

Shooty vets look great too

[ancient robin]

Sorry antus no images on this channel

[lyric canopy]

Jezus christ. I guess HSS are going to be pricy

[sweet geyser]

First thing I noticed lmao that will be a super expensive but super deadly unit

[ancient robin]

But that sucks to hear

[nimble cloak]

Where do you see that I just see it saying claws

[lilac wasp]

Why the hell would anyone be spending extra points on legion pistols

[desert girder]

PLEASE let the traitors have good rules.

[idle falcon]

Literally in the middle of painting some power sword veterans, I guess they don't exist now?

[shut dock]

Charnabal options are gone return to charnabal sabres ONLY

[wraith plank]

what

[hard pewter]

any model can take a sergeant weapon

[ancient robin]

I liked all the schmancy stuff

[balmy creek]

That was now it be in ye olde days

[pale basalt]

powefist and thunderhammer costing the same🤔

[sweet geyser]

Note that any model in the unit can take from sergeant melee weapons list

[lyric canopy]

Plasma guns being 10 ppm ...kill me

[shut dock]

[desert girder]

Depends on the pistol, flamer pistols probably can cause status effect checks, which can make your unit ws1 when charged, so you would want that.

[opaque verge]

assault vets are antigrav and move 12 but no jumppack in their wargear or am i blind XD

[nimble cloak]

yes sorry i missed that one the first point

[shut dock]

S7 AP4 Breaching 6+ so worth it

[hard pewter]

somebody find WS rules

[delicate mist]

Huh vets getting access to combi grav is pretty gnarly

[wraith plank]

yeah it's worded weirdly like the entirely of 3e, but the customization options are still htere

[dark lion]

Same for assault squads. So I guess it just won't be listed as wargear

[pale basalt]

5+

[trim jetty]

did they remove terminator/bike consuls or we do not have proofs for that?

[onyx condor]

So regular foot vets can no longer be kitted out for melee....... Welp, there goes my DG vets unless I run them as very speedy plague marines.

[near hull]

Seems so, but no image proof yet