Horus heresy 3.0 rule book leak

[surreal hornet]

sure, but it means that some strategies people may have tried in 2.0 just wont work

on the flip side they made you able to charge out of rhinos

[lofty nacelle]

Psychic powers just leaked - did we post that yet?

[dire gale]

Yup and there will be new ones

[surreal hornet]

so maybe new strategies will develop around that

an equivalent of that word bearer rush list might be very tasty with that

[lofty nacelle]

Do I post pictures directly or to imgur links

[surreal hornet]

world eater*

[dim pasture]

Damn, not the biggest fan of that. WS4 into 5 is pretty rough

[surreal hornet]

I just hope theres less artificer armor this edition

no legion veterans with 2+ saves, that shit was dumb

[hidden flame]

my favorite part of all of the psychic stuff.

[lofty nacelle]

https://imgur.com/a/s1cF7bl

[rigid canyon]

Looking at the force org stuff so far. I wonder if there will be legion specific consul org unlocks. Like an Iron Warrior specific consul that gives a generic aug + a specific (like support).

[lofty nacelle]

Psychic powers here

Also:

[rigid canyon]

And Named Characters doing something similar

[dim pasture]

I'd put money on yes. That's probably how we are getting ROWs esque builds

[hidden flame]

oh totally. They also did confirm that factions will have their own detachments

[rigid canyon]

Yeah I think RoWs as we knew them might be out. Considering we've seen no mention of them yet... Maybe

[hidden flame]

I wouldn't be super sad about that. Each legion getting two RoWs was always a mixed bag creatively. Like, for Emperor's Children, they were perfect. One representing Maru Skara, the other representing 3rd company elite. But then for Raven Guard you got Decapitation Strike, which was excellent, or the one where you ally with solar aux or imperial militia. That one felt a bit shoehorned.

[rigid canyon]

Anyone seen anything yet that gives more reaction points other than game size?

[surreal hornet]

probably some. although they better give every legion bespoke consuls this time round

[rigid canyon]

Depends what they get replaced by for me. I liked the fluffieness

[dim pasture]

I'm still pondering on the points and game size changes.

[lofty nacelle]

Those psychic powers are amazing - blowing up as a pyromancer is fucking hilarious

[raven marsh]

Cannot wait to have this on my osirons

[winged vapor]

Come on...that one is very easy to understand.
I fail to understand why people dislike that sort of simple math.
It's easy to remember and easy to do.

The way it is now will also be more consistent.

[hidden flame]

so far there's only two rules that have me scratching my head. Massacres and the Disgraced status

[sudden walrus]

It's easy to understand, but it feels unnecessary. We already had a similiar table based soley on movement, so why not keep it that way? Like so much this edition does it feel like unnecessary granularity for the sake of it

[lofty nacelle]

I think my BIGGEST thing is I’m gonna mess up on so many special rules like shred, twin linked, hatred, ect cause they all changed

[surreal hornet]

forgetting how armorbane works will lead to some situations

[dire gale]

Massacres might be something used by other rules

Like gaining something when you do it

[ebon willow]

Did armourbane changed ?

[idle falcon]

Massacres basically means what happens when the enemy dies before your dudes get to swing, Disgraced replaces the old "Refuse a Challenge = one of your characters doesn't get to fight this round"

[surreal hornet]

yes

[lofty nacelle]

Yup

RVERYTHING changed

[surreal hornet]

it now makes glances pens (and thats it)

[ebon willow]

oupsie i did not see the knew armourbane

[lofty nacelle]

Literally there are NO similarities between special rules between 2.0 and 3.0

[surreal hornet]

so its MUCH weaker, it means that Av14 is now hard to crack at range for basically anyone

[surreal hornet]

breaching?

[dark lion]

Feel no pain is mostly the same

[lofty nacelle]

Ughhhh don’t make me flip through againnnn

[lofty nacelle]

Ok wait that’s one 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[hidden flame]

I'd argue that Armourbane is stronger, as things that would glance av14 now pen it instead

[tired pier]

Breaching is the same too

[winged vapor]

That's what high S weaponry is for.

[dark lion]

I don't remember seeing differences for Barrage

[lofty nacelle]

Them psychic powers tho are fucking phenomenal

[hidden flame]

Rending is very different. Now it does nothing against vehicles, so I wonder what role autocannons will have.

[lofty nacelle]

I wanna big booty slam someone with buimancy

[surreal hornet]

A meltagun always needs a 6 now

[sudden walrus]

yeah, but pen doesn't always feel stronger then glancing. If you just want to debuff, instead of removing a unit, for a charge for example, would a glance be better

[surreal hornet]

theres no "2d6 at close range". So your odds of doing ANY damage are lower, but the damage dealt once youre in is greater

[dark lion]

As it should be🙏

Land Raiders are supposed to be tough, and in 2nd Ed they were only slightly better than most tanks because of those pesky re-rollable 5+s

[winged vapor]

True, but it also instakills a lot of vehicles if it's on melta range.

[surreal hornet]

true

provided you get that high roll

[winged vapor]

Av14 should be tough

[surreal hornet]

but the armorbane component does very little now

iron warrior meltas might be brutal though, at least if they keep the legion trait

[rigid canyon]

Halving characteristics is so extra. Just not being able to fight was simple and impactful enough

[hidden flame]

True. I guess it depends on what you're shooting and what the goal is. If you just want to remove the vehicle, I think it's going to be easier to do that, but if your goal is specifically to disable, then that might actually be trickier.

[winged vapor]

Now, penetrations having no vehicle dmg table effects is weird af

[hidden flame]

yeah but then it goes on to cover how stats are halved and then it makes mension of a units unit status unit status status unit is statused with the unit that's status...

[surreal hornet]

yea

[rigid canyon]

I feel like Glancing will rarely come up now. Both Lascannons and Melta having armourbane

[surreal hornet]

feels like an oversight

[rigid canyon]

Wonder how haywire will work

[hidden flame]

well, it'll depend on how AP and strength have changed across various weapons

[dark lion]

Something nice for uhhh... krak missiles and autocannons I guess???

[idle falcon]

You treat Disgraced like any other Status. Any unit affected by a Status suffers from a common set of effects

[dark lion]

I mean I wouldn't be against krak missiles being better. I love missiles

[hidden flame]

so the entire unit gets halved stats and initiative 1?

[idle falcon]

Ye

[rigid canyon]

Krak missiles better have breaching 4+ this edition

[sudden walrus]

any weapon with lower strength is now more important, since you can just status tanks into unusability if your' not sure about killing it

[nimble sierra]

Massacre is just a straight rip from 4e (including the name) but they added a whole paragraph and a half of extra text to it

[hidden flame]

that's what I thought, it just feels... like a lot of words to get there.

[rigid canyon]

Didn't see any missile squads all of 2nd

Aside from certain terminator units that will remain unamed

[dark lion]

Does give you an alternate way to deal with vehicles, true

[hidden flame]

Personally I love the aesthetic of missile launchers, so I'd love for them to get new life

[deft fox]

The pyromancer discipline is funny

[sudden walrus]

that's also how I understand it, since the status section says any status affects all models in a unit. Which makes disgraced really dumb

[surreal hornet]

ws7 champion centurions anyone?

[winged vapor]

Mission kill.

[surreal hornet]

Also means you really want repair dudes if you use many tanks

[hidden flame]

Yeah, Techmarines may have just gone from a 'neat thematic thing' to a 'must have if you like tanks'

[dark lion]

Techmarines being used to... repair things???? Wtf kind of world😔

[winged vapor]

Battlesmith seems much easier to use now.

It has a 6in range.
No need for base contact anymore.

[hidden flame]

time to convert up some forge lords

[dark lion]

Just bring back those servo automata buddies and I'll be extra happy

[hidden flame]

oh gosh yeah. who knows what sorts of shenanigans mechanicum will have access to

[dire gale]

And before or after you move is nice

[full tapir]

Rhino takes penetrating hit from a lascannon, goes right though no problem.

Takes a glance from a single IW boltgun. BRACE! PANIC!

[dire gale]

so you can fix it up then move somewhere else

[steel shadow]

sorry does resurrection work on primarchs? Damn

[teal basalt]

risking it all on a 4 up though

[idle falcon]

https://imgur.com/a/hh3-0-rules-so-far-2G2dwdx

I've gathered everything we've seen so far and organised it the best I could, if I've missed anything let me know

[lofty nacelle]

Good… question

[lofty nacelle]

You got my psychic…

Nvm I see it on the preview lol

[last bone]

Real ass question, who's out here moving 20+ inches

[lofty nacelle]

Hmmm did anyone post building rules yet

[last bone]

Low key, necromancy on like justaerin or saturnine sounds crazy

[ebon willow]

14Move +6 initiative ? maybe a jetpack or bike primarch

[dim pasture]

Doubtful, you need to target a unit. You can't target things not on the board/dead.

[idle falcon]

WS bikes are at like 15" move, +5 initiative gets you to 20

[dim pasture]

Lanky knights

[idle falcon]

Cheers, added

[ebon willow]

You target for resurrection before removing casualties so yes you can

[winged vapor]

That's bizarre af
Ngl

I really hope they change the IW legion trait.

[lofty nacelle]

I try my best

[winged vapor]

It's horrible to play against.

[full tapir]

A heavy bolter would also work, just wanted to go with the smallest weapon

Because the rules for glances are very silly

[winged vapor]

I know.
The bizarre thing also applies to glances in general.

Actually, it's the penetrations that are weird.

[last bone]

True forgot that

[ebon willow]

Any word on twin-linked ?

[wraith plank]

not yet

but there seems to be very few rerolls so far

[dim pasture]

Definitely a departure from 40k

[sudden walrus]

multilasers just keep winning. Surpreme weapon this edition lol

[solemn oak]

Please tell me someone is compiling all the leaks as they're happening. Cause I really don't want to scroll up for everything

[solemn oak]

Honestly same. It's really interactive imo.

[lofty nacelle]

Here @solemn oak

[gloomy trout]

Thank you 4chan. Praise /tg/!

[idle falcon]

Kinda glad they didn't get Chicken Jockey'd to death

[surreal hornet]

why? it would finaly be relevant

[lofty nacelle]

Yeah with destructible buildings it’s more relavent then ever

Oh your in there - lol ok proceeds to knock down building with glee

[surreal hornet]

the issue with their trait was that penning vehicles was super easy anyways

[winged vapor]

It's already relevant.
Makes vehicles ultra garbage when playing against them.
It's super horrible to play against.

[surreal hornet]

but now that its a bit harder due to the lack of rerolls and the change to armorbane, being the anti-vehicle legion might be good

[sudden walrus]

why, vehicles don'T need to be any worse.

[iron tree]

has someone found the weapon skill chart yet?

[surreal hornet]

the anti-tank legion should be good vs tanks

[surreal hornet]

same as in 2.0

[dark lion]

The 4chan thread said that it was the same, which makes me so sad that I refuse to believe it until I get pics

[surreal hornet]

at least thats what the guys itt told me

[iron tree]

oh nooooo

[trim jetty]

wonder if entire pdf gets leaked today.

[sudden walrus]

yeah good, not making it "unfun to field any vehicles against them."

[iron tree]

at this point it is possible lol

[surreal hornet]

Exactly, so +1 to pen

as opposed to "rerolls to pen" or whatever

a minor buff that makes them good at the task

the issue being that in 2.0 penning vehicles is so easy that the buff is unnecessary

[trim jetty]

a single IW player being a bit of a That Guy actually destroyed any and all incentive to play vehicles in my local.

So a rework that doesn't ruin an entire uhhh unit class? would be really cool

[idle falcon]

IW players being That Guy, name a more iconic duo

[lofty nacelle]

I need custodies pdf lol

[hexed mantle]

Same

[idle falcon]

The guy leaking all the rules only had the core rulebook from the Saturnine box, it'll probably be a while before we see any faction-specific stuff

[teal basalt]

Gonna be real, anyone could ruin vehichles in 2nd, the IW were just the best at it.

[solemn oak]

Oh cool. I thought that only had the initial pages and not the other stuff

[gloomy trout]

I've played 10 Leman Russ against Iron Warriors and it wasn't that cancer. Was a close game till he rammed my force commander to death

[dull jewel]

has the profile of chainswords leaked?

[solemn oak]

It's not that they're cancer imo. It's that it's just not interesting to be the iron warrior player

Like cool I can glance a rhino to death with bolters and my lascannons can continue to pen flare shields. It's not interesting

[wraith plank]

No, no weapon profile has leaked so far

tbh I just play IW because it's easier to paint

then I like big tanks

[dull jewel]

play IW because you want to paint them with an Athenian theme 🗣️

[gloomy trout]

Run exclusively kratos tanks and say something about being Greek and showing buttholes

[indigo kiln]

Hm

[surreal hornet]

thats most legion traits

theyre not supposed to be some big rules change, DA and SW were a mistake

[surreal hornet]

I hope theyre better in 3.0

them and sicarans

[dull jewel]

I hope they make the sicaran a single profile

[fleet dew]

That sentence was a roller coaster

[dire gale]

Hey is cut them down anywhere in there?

[surreal hornet]

not a thing any more

now if you catch a fleeing unit you just charge them again

you can also shoot them in the back as they run away instead

[rigid canyon]

Ah what! Damn that sucks. No more hero sergeants wiping a whole squad on their own?

I'm wholeheartedly against that

That shit was hype af when it actually happened.

[surreal hornet]

Yea, its just a charge now

Im not sure I like it, but it should make big squads of mooks less vulnerable. Which is maybe for the best. Less elite melee units struggle as is with the WS chart being what it is.

[rigid canyon]

Big mobs not being an issue is what made Heresy combat great. It was speedy and lethal. This just feels like a bad change.

[surreal hornet]

Big mobs not being viable just further encourages melee deathstars of terminators

[rigid canyon]

Gotta chase those guys all the way off the board like I'm playing 5th

[surreal hornet]

or kill them

since thats eminently doable in most cases

[dim pasture]

Da hell

[rigid canyon]

What's wrong with a unit of terminators being scary? That's what they should be!

[fleet dew]

They still are

[surreal hornet]

You heard me. You and your "we get multiple special legion traits that drastically change how core elements of the game work"

[surreal hornet]

the fact that there are a lot of units that are not terminators

if all that matters is the ws5 terminator deathstar 1v1 then whats the point of despoilers or assault marines or destroyers or whatever else?

whats the point of quantity if quality is all that matters

[dim pasture]

Running and charging that big of a deal to you?!? Lol the fact you call out SW and not DG is funny to me

[surreal hornet]

DG have one single rule

SW get two, because theyre special like that

[dim pasture]

That broke the game more than anyone else.....

[fleet dew]

Legion rules should be impactful, immersive and make the legions feel distinct. The 2ed didn't so that at all.

At least most of them didn't

[rigid canyon]

Well that's an experience I didn't really have so I can't say much. I thought elite termies were great and you needed to bring out plasma/melta or equivalents to deal with them. Can't just throw cheap troops at them and expect to do well. They're supposed to be nigh-invulnerable to common weaponry

[dim pasture]

SW legion traits were on point, thematic and to the lore. IW deserved something better than just a flat plus 1.

[surreal hornet]

SW should have had to pick ONE of their legion traits, not both

you either get run and charge, or you get +1WS with things that dont run

[dim pasture]

Why?

[surreal hornet]

because everyone else* gets one

[fleet dew]

Rg didn't

[surreal hornet]

Rg got 0

[fleet dew]

They got three

[dim pasture]

Then you should petition for the rest to get more? Why take someone elses ball home with you?

[surreal hornet]

but you dont see IF get "if you dont have bolt or auto weapons get X" or NL get "if you cant outnumber your opponent get Y", because those rules are well designed

[surreal hornet]

because nerfs are better than buffs

[fleet dew]

Thousand Sons didn't, Blackshields didn't etc I think legions should be like they are in shattered legions. One big buff, one lesser one and some minor drawback

[surreal hornet]

its better to hammer the protruding nails

[dim pasture]

SW were protruding? Lmao

[surreal hornet]

SW were badly designed

im not speaking about balance, but design decisions

every legion trait should have been like the IW one

"you get +1 to the thing sometimes"

[dim pasture]

They were done well, others were not, they should have also been done well

[fleet dew]

Oh jeez that is so boring

I hated the change to the Iron Warriors legions rules

Terrible design decision. Took away all flavor

[dim pasture]

It's all marines, they need to differentiate when they are sharing all the same profiles

[fleet dew]

Yes that is absolutely true. The Legion rules should be all more or less equal when it comes to power levels but making them completely dull is not the right way to do that. Sacrifing the narrative on the Anvil of balance is a folly they shouldn't do again

Or hopefully haven't done since the books are already printed

[dim pasture]

I agree. SW have a great set of traits that leans into their lore. Maybe it was easier to put that into rules than others. I'd never advocate for others to lose traits, rather improve and broaden them to bring the feel of the legion to the table with effectiveness.

IW trait was annoying in two ways. Oppressive against struggling vehicles and boring.

[fleet dew]

They used 2ed to lure in 40k players and expanded on the depth in 3ed to keep them interested is my theory

[dim pasture]

I hope so. I read through the black books and the legions had some great flair and rules to really standout. I want that back

[fleet dew]

And it didn't fit their narrative at all. They were never better at destroying vehicles or even better at anything. They just tend to take more if a lot is already good. They are basically the skaven of astartes. "Send in another wave" should be the name of their rule

[dim pasture]

Yeah I never got the sense of the grinder I always understood the IWs to be playing against them. It's just putting my LRs back in my box and being greatful my knight looked cool on the table for all of 1 turn.

[full tapir]

It was better than what a lot of 40k editions have done and just copy paste the IF rules

[hidden flame]

generally rules aren't really what lures people in, it's models. The nice thing is that 30k is remaining pretty crunchy, and they're really trying to make sure that different options that were ignored in most of 2.0 have a new lease on life in 3.0

[last bone]

Honestly I liked how they were in 9th where they were harder to kill with a lot of the stronger anti infantry options (they had turn off rerolls to wound)

[fleet dew]

I definitely quitted 40k because of the rules and that is the most common complain about the game I hear why people stopped playing it (besides the players) that I have to disagree here

[last bone]

Idk what you could give them this edition NGL, they're a legion that could benefit from having a couple smaller rules instead of one big one

[fleet dew]

Never played that and don't know anything about how armies worked there, so maybe?

[last bone]

TLDR a lot of good guns were like wounding on 3s, reroll everything, same with melee so it made IW dummy tough if you paired it with their FNPs and -1 damage

[fleet dew]

They were immun to leadership tests caused by shooting attacks and could Re roll failed pinning checks and could Re roll armor penetration checks against fortifications in 1ed with grenades. Let's start there 😉

[last bone]

Immune might be a bit much but some form of resistance would be nice

Stubborn against shooting LD checks would be good

Maybe reroll ones to save Vs blast?

[idle falcon]

Stubborn against shooting casualties feels a lot more fitting for the IW than blowing up vehicles better

[last bone]

Honestly I fuck with the idea of giving them surge moves either

Like say if you get hit by a shooting attack you can roll on cool to make a surge move

Represent that "we're bolting across no man's land" side of IW

[dim pasture]

Now we are cooking

[wraith plank]

The more I read the more I’m looking forward to hh3e

Hope to read about legion rules soon

So far it feels exactly like what an enhanced 7e should have been

[surreal hornet]

I want relics back, or at least "more weapon options"

[dire gale]

Ya relics would be great WLT are cool but pretty limited

[surreal hornet]

if not relics add some weapon customization

let people build 2 handed power axes or whatever

idk "unstable power field: power weapon only, the weapon has an additional -1I modifier but gets shred(5+)" or something

[dire gale]

Idk if we need more weapon options necessarily just balance them so you actually want to take them all, the Graviton maul being 15 more points for a straight up worse weapon isn't great

[surreal hornet]

I just realized the escaton power claw might finally see some use this edition

almost teared up

[crisp tulip]

Us

[surreal hornet]

?

[crisp tulip]

Love the super claw

[surreal hornet]

Ah, yea, I want it to be good but its just a baffling weapon currently "hey what if the instant death weapon had murderous blow"

[wraith plank]

right now we simply have no idea what the commander weapon profile will looks like, but one thing I love about this edition is weapons seem a lot more flexible with the new challenge system

[surreal hornet]

but in the new edition, assuming they keep the rules, it might be something like "shred(x), critical strike(6+)" which is actually useful

[wraith plank]

back in 2e it was just see who fail the thunderhammer/powerfist save

[surreal hornet]

yea, one strike and youre out

but it seems wound totals are higher this edition, and no ID

[wraith plank]

yeah, since there's no longer instakill, and 2+ saves are a lot less frequent, I would expect a lot of fun stuffs around the challenge system

[surreal hornet]

are 2+ saves less frequent?

I hope so, but I dont think theres any indication of that

But my real hope is that the headsmans axe is good, god knows that weapon needs something going for it

[wraith plank]

I'm fairly certain, power armor is no longer a wargear for marines, which means no longer an option for artificer I believe

[surreal hornet]

centurions have 2+ save base iirc though

[wraith plank]

the way I see it, 2+ would basically only exist for praetor, centurions, retinues and termies

yeah, and that's a HQ character, which makes sense

but regular line troops shouldn't have artificer

[surreal hornet]

amen

hopefully legion vets dont have 2+ this edition

[wraith plank]

yeah

2+ everywhere was cancer in 2e

basically forces everyone to either lascannon/melta or go home

[hidden flame]

gosh if artificer armor went away I'd be so happy...

or if it changed to where you only got the 2+ save in challenges, I'd be ok with that

[wraith plank]

there was a brief page of what was called ' command control legionary'

appears to be a 5 men squad, but only upgrade option being special weapon

notice that 'power armor' isn't even listed under wargear, unlike in 2e

[flat grove]

A user on reddit, who was verified by the recent major leaks, said that artificer armor is gone for sergeants

[full tapir]

They could have used their favourite 6 paragrahs of text to fix wound allocation but the simple way out works too

I wont miss it, but now we can get champion sargeants it might be felt more

[wraith pasture]

Got a screenie?

Also AA could be fixed by just making majority armour save be what you use against shooting and sergeants/characters in the squad can't be targeted until they're the last ones unless it's a precision shot

[full tapir]

Now that I've had the evening to attept to read the rules, i can't wait for someone to make an non-EULA speak version of the rules. These are an absolute headache and i feel I'm having some kind of brain trauma. The wound allocation 》make saving throws is an an entire solid page of text

[wraith plank]

Yeah it’s like they made 3 years worth of faqs into the rulebook itself

The actual rule isn’t more complex than 7e, some add on flavours, but not complex at all

[full tapir]

Yeah, once you've read it a couple of times and get what its trying to say its very simple

Just a headache to get there

[merry maple]

I think they're trying very hard to prevent any form of rule lawyering.
Hence making pages worth of text for very basic interaction.
Just to be sure nobody can try to read that rule funnily which would require FAQ afterwards.

[wraith plank]

I blame competitive tryhards

But once I tuned my brain to GW’s specific use of language I feel that it’s somewhat readable

[merry maple]

Same thing here, the rules itself isn't hard, it's just Gw "legal" verbatim to try to make sure nobody can try to bend the rules in a way that wasn't planned.

Which ultimately makes something that looks pretty straightforward for someone using common sense a text nightmare.

[wraith plank]

I’m fairly certain there are going to be cheatsheet

So far the core rule seems solid

[full tapir]

Theres even a tbing about not allocating Strike Groups to dead models, or allocating your wound rolls to vehicles

Like who is this for

[last bone]

They're trying to make the game as inbreakabl as possible

They learned their lesson from necromunda I imagine, which has a lot of rules with too many edge cases

[wraith plank]

I think their goal is that both a 14 years old and a 50 years old granny could follow the rules to the letter and finish a game

[last bone]

Also making gaming events more smooth, there was one for 2.0 in my lgs, I talked to the event manager and he said it's the most rules problems that he ever dealt with

[fleet dew]

Same here. Rules in 2ed were often written very unclear

[tranquil epoch]

Probably just allow you to take troops or whatever in command slots

[last bone]

Did you ever have the fire drakes debate?

That was uh, a scary game I imagine if players RAW

[teal basalt]

What is RAI that seems pretty straight foward

Oh I see

[full tapir]

I don't have enough brain ridges to see the problem? Reroll hits of 1 on melee attacks?

[fleet dew]

What's the debate?

Oh no, I see it. That's why we bring a dreadsock to games

[sudden walrus]

I hope legion traits come with drawbacks again. And they should all be put in a similiar degree of power, instead what we have now.

[sick nimbus]

let me guess, you could read this as applying to your whole army?

[sudden walrus]

no, the player themselves get to re roll 1s when punching the idiot with no reading comprehension, aka anyone who has to discuss this rule

[sick nimbus]

Wonderful

[dark lion]

If true, then 2025 is gonna be year of the krak missile babeyyyyyy

[full tapir]

Wonder what Autocannons will even do now with rending gone

[last bone]

Yep, it's so dumbly worded that it's somewhat possible

[last bone]

I could see them getting shred

[sick nimbus]

indeed

[green torrent]

rending is not gone

[wraith plank]

No, but I too wonder if autocannon will still have rending of this type

[full tapir]

Rending is gone and has a different effect, though they reused the name

[dim pasture]

Isn't breaching essentially rend now?

[last bone]

Nerfed tho, no more d3 against vehicles

[full tapir]

Breaching is still Breaching which is old Rending that didnt work on vehicles, none of the new Breaching/Shred/Rending work on vehicles

[green torrent]

breaching is breaching, it stayed the same

[dim pasture]

Tbh never felt like rending was needed to keep vehicles in check

[green torrent]

rending is old rending without the "ignores armour" part

[slender patio]

Rending+Breaching is going to be very big for anything that gets it.

[last bone]

Yeah

I wonder if plasma is gonna be breaching or just flat AP2 this edition

If it is just AP2 it'll really made disintegrators mid

[teal basalt]

No shot they go AP2. At most they revert back to 3

[wraith plank]

that's good

always thought rending and breaching were excessive in 2e

[fleet dew]

I thought on the other hand that the introduction of Breaching was a great step in the right direction.

Or did you mean how many unit had them?

[sudden walrus]

I find gw over corrected by removing so man, ap 2 and 3 weapons, made arti sarge tanking so much worse. I hope battle cannons and demos go back to having some bite

[dim pasture]

I would say we should have saw more 4+/5+ breaching on alot of weapons

[sudden walrus]

We should have also seen more brutal then what we got. But now we got a full new edition, so who knows what will happen

[last bone]

I wouldn't mind battle cannons going breaching 4+

Surely getting direct impacted by a tank shot should kill a terminator

[sudden walrus]

Give it back big blast at least. Or else it will just be useless again

[last bone]

That too

I always forget it's a small blast

[full tapir]

Blasts look to have a hit roll now

[dark lion]

Man this really is 3rd Ed 40k isn't it

[dim pasture]

I don't know about more brutal especially with ID. It wasn't my favorite part tbh.

[last bone]

Unless it's like necromunda, where hitting with a blast means it doesn't scatter

[full tapir]

Potentially? The hit test.mjgjt be the same as current but who knows

[last bone]

Yeah it's necromunda rules

Hit = no scatter, miss = scatter

Indirect = always scatter

[dim pasture]

Not sure how I feel about that

Might speed up some of the jankier blast weapons I guess

[sudden walrus]

They should have atleast given brutal to unit where it made sense... Like the telemons fist or the mechanicums robots,

[last bone]

Only downside will be stuff like multi blast units, where say 10 plasma cannons will have 10 shots, each one rolls to hit, misses need to be scattered

[full tapir]

Vs now where all 10 scatters

[dim pasture]

That I agree with.

[last bone]

True

[dim pasture]

Well yeah that should cut down how many scatters

[last bone]

I think we'll see people using more blast weapons

[sudden walrus]

neither option is that good,

[last bone]

Just cause much more reliable

[sudden walrus]

does someone have the text on the blast rules then? We seemingly only got barrage here

[full tapir]

We're missing a lot still

[sudden walrus]

mostly army lists and points at this point. And weapon profiles and legion rules

those are at least the big 4 that come to my mind

[flat grove]

Said user claims that missile launchers get Heavy(AP)

[fleet dew]

A hit test can be made with a scatter dice as well

[last bone]

Siege tyrants sound horrific if that is the case

[full tapir]

I know, not confimred its like Necromunda just a maybe

[last bone]

Warmonger drop them in the middle of the center and just reaction fire everyone who tries to charge you and gun down the survivors

[full tapir]

And of course there was nothing wrong witb 'always scatters' we have now but you know GW apparently has a word count minimum this edition

[fleet dew]

They don have regular missle launchers though

[full tapir]

But Barrage has variable scatter distance which probably wouldnt be necessary if it scattered by default

[fleet dew]

If warmongers are still a thing, yes.

[last bone]

I would imagine all consuls we have at the minute survive

[dark lion]

This could mean that they're either AP 4 😭 or they're still AP 3😍

[last bone]

Yet another milita mulcher

[dark lion]

Plz be AP 3 plz be AP 3 plz be AP 3

[fleet dew]

I dearly hope so because I like the concept and my model I have for him

[last bone]

We loose AP3 rockets but gain AP3 battle cannons

[dark lion]

😔 I'll live with it I guess

[sudden walrus]

a fair trade

[last bone]

Only one way to find out

Actually I wonder if demolishers will go up an Ap now they no longer have AP3

Or just have a comical damage stat

[sudden walrus]

1 shot, str 7 ap 4 damage 8

no blast

[full tapir]

Sir thats a vanquisher

[last bone]

"if you have a bad roll on your contemptor save I've got bad news for you"

[wraith plank]

do we have a leaked weapon stat yet?

[sudden walrus]

no, vanquisher stays the only good leman russ gun. str 9 ap 2 3 damage and 10 shots, should sond balanced

[sudden walrus]

nope, seemingly only the core rulebook got shipped early

[full tapir]

I like we have just enough info to have no clue at all about playing the game

Lots of rules but no stats or important bits

[last bone]

I'm waiting for something really funny to come out

Like "why tf are power mauls damage 3??"

I suspect hammers will be D3 tho

Need something to crack open saturnine termies

[wraith plank]

hammer better be d3

is hammer supposed to be slower than fist?

[last bone]

Like I could see it being D3 -1A -4 initiative

[dark lion]

Lighting claws are breaching 5+

[last bone]

It's slow, unwieldy but holy shit if you hit someone they die

[last bone]

Breaching 5+ shred 6+ twin linked is now reroll wounds

[dark lion]

Actually, I do wonder what lightning claws are gonna look like with re-rolls being mostly removed

[last bone]

Bucket of extra attacks?

[flat grove]

Maybe they're AM+2 for a pair

[sudden walrus]

I bet we will see a regular power claw and paired power claw, and the pair gives more attacks

[dark lion]

+4 attacks instead of +2

[full tapir]

They'd certainly waste the ink by making a whole extra weapon for a pair

[sudden walrus]

yes

because conserving ink is clearly not part of their MO this edition

[full tapir]

Or else its "if a model you control is equipped with two Lightning Claws (that is, it has two individual lightning claws) then that model you control gains a bonus to its attacks of two if attacking with either of the aforementioned Lightning Claws it is equipped with. This is regardless of if they have three or more lightning claws.

[wraith plank]

for some reason, I am 120% certain that "model equipped with more than 3 weapons of the same type do not benefit from further extra attack" is going to be in the rulebook somewhere

[sudden walrus]

"Unless it has the automata subtype"

[full tapir]

Knights had the 3 weapon thing but none ever got more than two i think

[fleet dew]

Anyone got the link with 43 pages?

[wraith plank]

https://imgur.com/a/hh3-0-rules-so-far-2G2dwdx

[wraith plank]

that sounds fun

and I like the changes to vehicle

[dim pasture]

I wonder how having multiple statuses applied to a vehicle will work

[hidden cave]

It's rather unclear how they designed this ruleset

[teal basalt]

I mean you’ll have all 3 statuses, then all glances become 1 damage.

[hidden cave]

anti-armour weapons (armourbane I look at you) are not applying statuses, but barely strong enough random stuff is?

[teal basalt]

Yeah there’s an argument is some cases glancing is better than pen

D1 weapons especially.

[hidden cave]

vehicles can attempt to get rid of the status by doing 6+ check (with some of them having this ability boosted to 4+)

[teal basalt]

Isnt that just rhinos with repair?

Or does everyone get it?

[hidden cave]

every vehicle on 6+

[green torrent]

my face when instead of blowing the predator i "stun" him and somehow its better (he wouldnt be able to react with battle weapons anyways)

[teal basalt]

Mfw when instead of dealing 1 damage of 6 HP I maim the vehicles entire ability to shoot.

[green torrent]

33% of the time it works all the time

unless they shake it off in the end turn phase i mean

[teal basalt]

I mean immobilise is still grim and 6+ is unlikely, despite what the people who hate explodes want you to think.

Reacts meh, but into a 10HP Spartan or something like that, glances ain’t shabby.

[humble brook]

Do we know if vehicles are still limited to reacting with defensive weapons?

[hidden cave]

They are

[humble brook]

Lame

[teal basalt]

do you have the part that says that? intercept is the only one that calls it out

ah nvm ive found it

[hidden cave]

for other people

[full tapir]

We also dont know if Reinforced is gone from those bigger tanks

Because for years they've rightly surnised that a single glance shouldnt neutralise a 400pt tank

[teal basalt]

Don’t even know what it does, my point being, especially for D1, it’s not going to be uncommon to hope for a glance.

[wraith plank]

do we know if flare shield is still a thing

[flat grove]

Glances are punishing, but it's still better to actually kill the vehicle

[full tapir]

Also the snap shots they make are 5+ now, but kills blast weapon vehicles still

[teal basalt]

for the weapons that can do it, but some weapons are going to really struggle

[flat grove]

On the flip side, weapons that struggle at killing vehicles outright will still feel useful with glances

[hidden cave]

But you need a specialised anti-armour weaponry to do it quickly. My point is the glance mechanic seems a bit too good because it applies to any other random weapons that are (or are going to be) D1 but with numerous shots (which greatly improve chances of status application - for example autocannons able to effectively "stun" Predators).

[teal basalt]

not just feel useful, will actively seek them, plus if you hit the same thing again you can ignore cover no?

[flat grove]

If you roll the same result again on the table the glance does 1 damage

[silent yoke]

keep in mind this is from the box set and not from the LIber

[teal basalt]

lmao praetors weaker than terminators

[untold pollen]

Oh I know. But the centurion and tactical are the same as the one shown in the article. They just have LD instead of all the advance stats

[silent yoke]

i believe wargear is baked in

for the sake of the simplified rules

but could also be typo

actually yeah. i think typo. because initiative is not different enough

[inner dragon]

As it says, they're basic rules andshouldn't be used with the core rules that have the real stats

[silent yoke]

Also - Guys please don't post the links direct here, upload to imgur or mega and post that link instead

[full tapir]

Oo vets are only WS4

Makes keeping the old chart hurt less

WS4 BS5

[teal basalt]

assault vets are probably WS5

[full tapir]

Saturnine are 4/4, Praetor is 6/5

[stoic orbit]

I know it's not the core point you were making but to be fair, there is a whole lot of real-world precedence for rapid firing light AT weapons -like autocannons- that aren't necessarily able to penetrate, being able to effectively do just that, and "stun" much larger tanks.

Armour can stop the round, but sensors are still vulnerable and concussions definitely still affect the crew.

[hidden cave]

I agree but then why the armourbane weapons that penetrate the heavy plates cannot do that as well?

[silent yoke]

its a never ending spiral if you try to apply real world logic. it will validate one aspect of the game and invalidate another

[tribal jetty]

I am worried about the different vets getting shoehorned into specific weapon options and invalidating old vet squads

kind of what happened with the addition of Sternguard/Vanguard

[wraith plank]

I doubt vets are going to get fixed loadouts

[silent yoke]

i expect someone will lose some sort of unit one way or another

[wraith plank]

that's the most not-30k thing gw can do

[silent yoke]

great time to make new stuff

[tribal jetty]

not fixed, but I'd want assault veterans to still be able to take plasma guns or grav guns or whatever

[silent yoke]

same as 1.0 - 2.0 there will be some changes. but too soon to tell for sure

[fiery widget]

Where are we seeing this?

[full tapir]

I'll imgur it since no posting anymore i think

https://imgur.com/a/v4tzQuU

[dark lion]

BS 5 veterans babeyyyyy. 2025 year of the heresy sternguard😎

[tepid crown]

They really want you to use those disintegrators

[median hawk]

Worth noting that's normal veterans (tacticals).

Presumably, Veteran Assault Squads (and Despoilers if they exist, possibly Breachers?) will be statted accordingly.

i.e. WS5 for Assault and Despoilers.

But BS4.

[full tapir]

There might be despoiler vets

[median hawk]

Veteran Tacticals and Assaults would suggest Despoilers likely exist as well, yeah.

[humble brook]

That would be dope

[full tapir]

Don't think we know about assault vets yet

[median hawk]

Not the profile, no.

Just that they exist as an option.

[full tapir]

Aha

[humble brook]

So they are basically baby dreads

[full tapir]

There we go then lol

[median hawk]

Amusingly, this is something the Panoptica team rather rightfully argued in favour of - so it's nice to see it properly reflected in the core rules.

[humble brook]

And boss man is basically a dread haha

[scarlet rampart]

Just noticed the saturnine praetor is S4 when the normal ones are S5, is that a mistake?

[dark lion]

Probably because these are simplified profiles for the core box. I'm expecting the libers to have them be a bit different

[wraith pasture]

Has this been posted yet

[inner dragon]

yes, and as always you don't post them directly

[wraith pasture]

I don't have a link

[inner dragon]

sitck it on imgur and boom, instant link

[silent yoke]

this does not make it okay

[wraith pasture]

I dont have an imgur account

[silent yoke]

but yes has already been posted which is the alternative and recommended thing to check first

[tepid crown]

lol sweep is gone

Games are going to be sooo much longer

With volley shots, no sweep, more book keeping, statuses everywhere, challenge sub phase

I'm just baffled by the quantity of changes, not a single person I know wanted this

I'll remain optimistic that it all comes together in the end..

[solemn oak]

Sweep being gone makes me sad. Unironically will probably hohserule it back

[hidden cave]

there is like 5 times more outcomes for fights rn

[sudden walrus]

and they still probably didn't fix the problems of 2e. HSS and dreadnaughts will probably still dominate.

Though I am happy to be proven wrong. Would be a good light for once

[tepid crown]

Each dread has to be unlocked by a consul or a prime so they're quite the investment

[pale basalt]

i seriously doubt the current dreads will dominate

the saturnine dread on the other hand

[sudden walrus]

3 centurions give you 6 TSS/Hss and 3 dreads, that will probably be enough if you keep with the 1 dread per 1k rule

[teal basalt]

why would people keep that rule

[sudden walrus]

because it will probably be necessary, because dreads might be the best way to get melta onto target

[tepid crown]

I think it actually makes it so you can bring as many dreads as you want. You lose all your consuls if you do that and multi wound weapons can shred right through them

[teal basalt]

melta that deletes dreads. they might be a worse method than a rhino

[languid badger]

Multiple unit combat outcome is more simplified, I think.
Just one morale check for the whole losing side for example and with no sweeping the results are probably actually easier to resolve

[sudden walrus]

Honestly, 5++ and melee ability is still better then a rhino.

[teal basalt]

actually read the dreadnought profile before you decide they need a homebrew rule to limit them

[teal basalt]

oh god! quick limit 1 squad of tartaros per 3000 points

[tepid crown]

Tartaros would have been op if sweep was in still. Combat resolution is determined by models now, not wounds

[silent yoke]

we dont need to be sassy

[last bone]

That's funny lol

My 40 lobotomites will hold the front lines!

[pale basalt]

we know nothing about dreads other than weapons seem to be better against them

stop doomposting

[teal basalt]

and theyre harder to take than even lords of war

[last bone]

Wait actually.... Tech thrall melee bricks night not be bad

[pale basalt]

with t6 everything is possible with those guys

[last bone]

Fuckers are T5 now so they'd definitely clog up despoilers

[pale basalt]

if they are still super cheap my human armies will riot

[last bone]

Throw a priest or arquitor kitted for melee and suddenly you have a reasonable damage output

[sudden walrus]

wut? T5 tech thralls?

[silent yoke]

yaaaaa. its awesome

painless, thoughtless dudes absorbing fire. still a 6+ save

[sudden walrus]

has that been confirmed or just another rumor floating around?

[silent yoke]

it was in the first article of the edition

#hh-news message

[sudden walrus]

oh shit, just saw that.

such a dumb change for no good reason...

[last bone]

Idk about you but I'm all for it, go my lobotomites

[silent yoke]

i find it incredibly thematic

[full tapir]

Sums up 3.0

[last bone]

Be useful for once!

We on the hopium train in this Mechanicum taghmata

[silent yoke]

it also just like... makes sense?

[sudden walrus]

They are disposable guy that got the least amount of needed cybernethics. Why should they be tougher then a marine or techpriest?

[last bone]

That's my assumption is that priests will be a T5/6 deal

[silent yoke]

lack of feeling or emotion make them "tougher". they still have a 6+ save so they die. there is no regard for their existance

[last bone]

Also just having less vital areas you can hit

[sudden walrus]

so bolters are even less useful. Cool. Guess they needed that aditional shot after all

[last bone]

Bolters are still gonna deal significant damage to thrall and milita boys

Your gonna wound on a 5 and more than likely just kill the thing when you do

[sudden walrus]

militia yeah, but not thralls.

unnecessary. Guess it is good to spam heavy weapons then

[last bone]

Also like, thrall are leadership 4 or something like that

[silent yoke]

thralls had no real purpose in the game. giving them t5 is an interesting way to add objective controlling and screening units to the faction

[last bone]

I can see tacs charging in after shooting to make them run

[last bone]

Literally all they were good for was just a 30 point backfield holder, I'm happy their not just a milita squad 1 to 1 anymore, they feel like a part of the Mechanicum faction more so now

[sudden walrus]

probably still get a rule to get around that. Thralls fleeing didn't make any sense to begin with

[silent yoke]

layers of rules in teh mechanicum mo

[sudden walrus]

being cheap chaff in an otherwise elite army already gave them a clear cut task though

[last bone]

See what happens ig

[last bone]

You never really saw them, they went too far in just being useless

[teal basalt]

I'd argue some of these aint so bad:

volley shots only happens if A. the squads arent so close that they get locked together by the set up, and B. one of the sides have assault weapons, which might be bolt pistols, but definetly not on everything that was assault before (no shooting meltas at a sprint)

Sweep was a massive all or nothing mechanic, and now that has been broken down into several mechanics that allow you options between pursuing a fleeing foe, shooting them in the back, or moving elsewhere.

statuses are everywhere, but frankly so was pinning. the statuses all having the same root prevents a common heresy 2 issue: multiple rules having minor variations that are impossible to remember individually, i just hope this carries over to deep strike and its relatives.

the challenge sub phase fixes 2 issues: challenges being mathhammered out. sigismund, the best challenger, was useless, because everyone knew they would lose so locked him with a mook. the other issue it fixes is primarchs getting in combat turn 2 or 3, and their combat ending when the game does.

i wasnt asking for these, but im quite enjoying what im seeing

[last bone]

They're still going to be cheap I imagine (5-8 points is my assumption) but now they fit in the Mechanicum faction better as your zombie wall to protect your fragile shooting units from melee

[sudden walrus]

got to see them in 1e, were they aktually were tanky with 4+ 5+++, less so in 2e true

[last bone]

1e thrall were good tbf, but that was after you bought them all sorts of upgrades

Which is another way to handle em, but I kinda like the shambling horde aspect of them now

[tepid crown]

I can see your points. I just think it's going to draw the game out. But I enjoy 4K+ games and like to bring all my toys so I think 2k-3k won't be a huge deal for most people

[sudden walrus]

they were definetly better as a horde in 1e. 2e was just not kind to the mechanicum in general though, so my only hope is that the army rules are better written this edition, and not just good for marines, tablescraps to the rest

[tepid crown]

And everyone's got bolt pistols

[sudden walrus]

every marine. Many armies don't even come with sidearms on their none character models

[tepid crown]

Like non marine armies? Yea

I'd say that's 10% of my club

[sudden walrus]

custodes will probably have assault on almost everything none dreadnaught

[teal basalt]

Guardian spears have to be assault surely. They’re already gonna be pointing them at the enemy

[dark lion]

Ehhh I'll wait for the liber before saying that

[last bone]

Tbf I imagine robots will have a special rule to shoot and charge

[sudden walrus]

Can't everyone shoot and charge now?

[teal basalt]

The return of the holy 25pt lascannon

[last bone]

I canr remember

But like also to do the volley fire stuff

[sudden walrus]

Well, most automata already got quite limited on reactions, so I guess it will be more an ability of the dominus to give his squad

[last bone]

True

Castellax MM stocks have gone through the roof in other news lol

[teal basalt]

But they can’t cap objectives atm, but maybe cybernetica sorts that out like 1.0

[last bone]

Probably

Or they make castellax our equivalent of a box dread, entirely dedicated to just killing people

[flat grove]

I bet they'll be able to use the closest tech priest's LD or something like that. It would be cool if Mech had something to represent the noosphere on the battlefield.

[wraith plank]

There’s no more sergeant?

Or is it just a simplified rule for saturnine

[quaint torrent]

These are starter box extremely basic profiles

[dull jewel]

ultramarines making a pinning test is something we all loved

[sudden walrus]

I liked all the drawbacks, even if they weren'T all that balanced. But it was another nice layer

[rigid canyon]

Drawbacks was awesome

It's great for long term balancing as well; if a trait is too strong you can just faq in a harsher drawback.

Not that GW would bother to FAQ with any sense though.

[wraith plank]

To be fair from what I read so far, 3e has less book keep despite being a reading nightmare

while keeping the rule more interesting overall

that's... good

[sudden walrus]

Only all the status effects... And the bonuses you can provide in army building... And all the new special rules.

[untold palm]

so army building will be more rewarding to people who take the time to understand it, and its not so much that there are a bunch of new special rules but rather they work differently.

[fleet dew]

Are you sure that tabletops are the right kind of game for you? There is always a good chunk of special rules, you always have some sort of bonusses and puting down some markers for different statūs, wounds etc was also always a thing

I write like GW did 😂 But I hope you still understand

[wraith plank]

Those aren’t new to be fair, just written out. Pinning and suppressed are basically old pinning, routed has been there since 5e. The new special rules aren’t really new either, at least they are now distinct, back in 2e keeping on track of breaching/rending, armorbane/sunder was way more head scratching

The only thing I hate about 3e is the GW verbatim, but those I can get used to

[pale basalt]

the status thing is a plus in my book

we already kinda had weird specific statuses. like the test a unit takes when a transport gets pen'd

now it just has a name

[wraith plank]

Yeah, and a token

[untold palm]

i would rather gw write a short bolded section and then also have the long paragraphs because tournament grognards exist and will eventually move even more into Heresy

[wraith plank]

Same, can’t believe it took 5 pages to write “line of sight and 12 inch, charge 2d6 pick the highest, attack based on I, roll ld when ended”

Or was it 7 pages

[pale basalt]

the most insane one to me is the challenge part

[untold palm]

you forgot to add shoot snapshots as well, but yes seven pages.

[wraith plank]

Ah, yeah, don’t think it’s something I’d be trying on my first game

But imo at least it made challenge interesting, back in 2e challenge basically boiled down to who fail that thunderhammer save

[untold palm]

new alpha legion power, nominate a random model to now be a character at the moment of a challenge

[quaint torrent]

You understand they've literally done this

Right?

[untold palm]

yes. thats what i was saying. I prefer how 3.0 is.

[wraith plank]

Can’t have both way

Too short, you get rule lawyers and tryhards complaining about lack of FAQ

we are now the other way around, maybe GW overdid it a little

[untold palm]

maybe but now i have something more effective to throw at people than the little resin space men.

[fleet dew]

The bold section before the long pages written down is the short version.

[untold palm]

it also shows designers intent so we get RAI

[hot tundra]

I wonder how many messages this thread will have by the time 3.0 launches. We're at 1656 right now (6/12/2025)

[wraith plank]

Actually that’s pretty useful

[tepid crown]

Melee already feels bad in 2e and the statuses absolutely gut them. Any status they get disordered and initiative 1.

[sudden walrus]

Triple that

[sudden walrus]

Yes they are. And the question was just that there wasn't more bookkeeping, and that is blatantly not right.

[sudden walrus]

The special rules in 2e were even less problematic, as they had been mostly the same for how many editions? Now most of them have completly changed around.
Which yes can be learned, but it is still annoying to change around again, Atleast for me. I still think of hh 1e situation in 2e.

[pale basalt]

initiative 1 would only matter against other melee units

and the both players are suffering under these new rules

and being able to charge out of rhinos is a huge speedboost which replaces the need for that 3 inch move

[tepid crown]

Do we know how disembark works though?

[quaint torrent]

We do not have the Transports pages yet so far as I am aware

[wraith plank]

Eh, I doubt us old timers would have trouble even if the changes were even more drastic. So far it looks slightly easier for new comer to learn

[tribal jetty]

Not that many USRs actually predate 6th edition/HH1. The only old pre-6th one I've seen that's noticeably changed is Rending, though I don't think we've seen most of them.

[sudden walrus]

By the looks of it also shred, tank hunter, melta (But that one is a given)

[tribal jetty]

Tank hunter is old, I don't remember seeing that in the new rules

[wraith plank]

shred was there in 2e also, not sure about tank hunter, where is it?

[tribal jetty]

I guess melta was technically a weapon rule (as opposed to type like assault/rapid fire/heavy) but was moved to USRs so I guess that counts

[wraith plank]

yeah, I'm actually surprised that meltagun lost assault keyword

[tribal jetty]

that doesn't surprise me really

it's more that every weapon had to fit into the 4 categories back then

[teal basalt]

now that weapon types are no longer required theres no reason for it to be kept

[tribal jetty]

the one old assault weapon I'm curious about is flamers

[pale basalt]

i think flamers will have it

the volley fire seems kinda built for them

[wraith plank]

curious if pistol will have them also, or will they have a pistol keyword

[tribal jetty]

bolt pistol has assault

Assault is a special rule now, like heavy

So most or all pistols will likely have it

[wraith plank]

ah, that makes sense

[sudden walrus]

new version turn glances into pens

[wraith plank]

armourbane

no more ordnance or sunder, wonder if lance is still there

[tribal jetty]

Tank Hunters was reroll armor pen, and was a rule for units rather than weapons

[quaint torrent]

Sunder is gone, but we havent seen larger weapons yet. Unknown if Ordinance or Destroyer are gone as traits

[pale basalt]

we have seen ordinance

think it was still just rerolls

[teal basalt]

have we seen weapon profiles, i missed them

[wraith plank]

huh, I wasn't aware that weapon profiles are already leaked

[teal basalt]

could you drop a link

[pale basalt]

we havent seen weapon profiles

but the special rule was dropped

i dont have it

but you could try searching for it in this chat

[sudden walrus]

Right, armor bane, not tank hunter, My bad

[quaint torrent]

The only mention so far of Ordinance in this discord for 3rd is this #hh3-rules-discussion message

Which speaks to its existence, but not what it does

So if there is more info, please provide

[tribal jetty]

we get a glimpse on the screnshot for the Line rule but we can't see much

[wraith plank]

I thought line was already in the leaked rule? Basically gives you extra vp when on objective

[quaint torrent]

We know what Line is. Kothra is referring to the screenshot that gave us Line has a tiny part of the Ordinance rule (it's cropped such that we get maybe two or three words per line)

[dark lion]

Well it doesn't give you a re-roll, so I can see it staying

Although, does any faction other than Mechanicum have a weapons with Lance?

[sudden walrus]

custards do have some I think

[dark lion]

Ah ok, still would have a reason to keep being a core rule then

[quaint torrent]

White Scars bespoke jetbike lancers have it

[tepid crown]

Is there no charge bonus anymore for attacks?

don't see it anywhere but maybe missing a page

There's also no "set to defend" so maybe?

[teal basalt]

yeah, maybe its somewhere else. it seems super weird because disordered charge is the only malus for charging out of transports

[tepid crown]

Don't get a setup move

I think the charge bonus to attacks is gone

Oof

[flat grove]

Disordered charge means you don't get any bonuses from any rules triggered by successful charges and you can't make a setup move

[teal basalt]

oh thank god, that at least cuts down a rhino to charge distance by 3"

[tepid crown]

So it would seem that there's no core rule that gives any advantage to being the first to charge against another unit. In fact it's worse because you eat overwatch. Maybe there's special rules

[near hull]

We don't know that yet, in the same way the assault phase section we have doesn't even include the hit or wound tables

If it's gone, I'll be bummed, but yknow
We'll see

[tepid crown]

Would be weird for there to be no incentive

[teal basalt]

you get to issue a challenge

[tepid crown]

Yea you get to challenge first. Other player can still challenge

[teal basalt]

but it costs a reaction to do so

if your out of reaction points at that point which is likely, you could be denied the challenge at all

[wraith plank]

Also charge bonus is still there

[teal basalt]

could you point to where?

[wraith pasture]

if charge bonuses didnt exist the game would become a game of baiting people into charging so you can overwatch them because there's literally no point to charge first

[teal basalt]

other than the obvious, your unit is better than theirs at melee

[tepid crown]

I'd still rather be charged

I mean if they're a shooting unit yea obviously

[tepid crown]

Maybe it will be a special rule. I remember seeing a few that looked like charge bonuses

[wraith pasture]

overwatch is just an extra free shooting attack in your enemies' turn

or almost free

[civic acorn]

Which you can completely prevent by getting close enough to your target before charging, fwiw. Not getting volley fire/overwatch/evade if you're within the setup move distance feels like a huge benefit to melee, as does being unable to gain status during this process (as much as I love psychic powers, I spit on your grave, telepathic hallucinations)

[wraith plank]

Oh, my bad, there isn't straight up 'charge bonus,' but rather 'bonus granted by Special Rules that require the Unit or Model to have successfully Charged an enemy Unit'

the 'Disordered Charge' section between step 3 and 4

[wraith plank]

It's far from free, looks like for game under 1.5k, each player during opponent's Turn only gets 1 Reaction Allotment unless affected by Special Rule, between 1.5k and 3.5k, 2 Reaction Allotments

And no reaction can be performed by unit under Status

I remember hearing about special support units that could temporarily increase Reaction Allotment through special rule or unit action

[near hull]

Augur command squads can reduce the cost of a reaction by 1 with an int test

Also, warlord traits will possibly give reaction points in SOME way

[wraith plank]

yeah, I'd expect something like that also. Looking at the amount of reaction available, I'm more inclined that reaction points are precious resources to be spent at key moments

rather than a bonus that could be used whenever

[near hull]

I want that to be the case, so hopefully they're not TOO generous

[wraith plank]

Hopefully not, if an entire command squad is required to generate one extra point through int check, other methods better be as, if not more difficult

Oh hey, there's an advanced reaction that moves your targeted unit away from the charging unit that takes place after the volley attack

I feel like reaction point is more akin to CP in 9/10th

[civic acorn]

Only available to light subtype or cavalry, and as mentioned before, if the setup move gets to them there is no reaction window.

Also note that there's a 1/turn hardcap on any given unit reacting, so you can't reposition away and then overwatch for example, nor can you return fire and overwatch.

But also I really hope that augury scanners don't hand out free interceptor because that was so frustrating. At least planes get intercepted on the board edge, not final position, so you can maybe outrange some stuff instead of just getting glanced to oblivion by every random gun on the table

[wraith plank]

yeah

it's far more limited than reaction in 2e that I'd hesitate calling them the same stuff

[civic acorn]

Even if free interceptor is everywhere, shooting your real guns with it is 1) snap shots 2) preventing that unit from doing any other reactions.

I do also appreciate that combat drop-off still lets you deploy the unit even if you get blown up on interceptor, with a vastly more friendly rule than "everybody in this arvus lighter takes an S10 hit, have fun with that". And combat air patrols can spend almost all their time being impossible to intercept if they want to, so maybe it's worth it to finally paint my planes! Please. Please gw. This fire raptor has hurt me enough.

[wraith plank]

when was the last edition that planes were revelent again

6th?

[civic acorn]

I think I also did horrible things to people with flyer wings full of helldrakes in 7th

Map campaign restricts slots, I only get one flyer slot...which can apparently fit 4 helldrakes in it this is fine

Actually early 8th was also plane city to the point where I was seriously evaluating running a warhound with double flamers to swat them out of the sky, and GW responded with the "boots on the ground" rule where you automatically lost if you only had planes left

And I think in 9th there was a hot minute where ork flyers were so busted they tabled people turn 1 more or less regardless of what you did to defend yourself

...so I think it's been "every edition except HH 2e" actually

[teal basalt]

the other thing with reactions is that the int test happens after committing. if this is standard, this means that you have to really REALLY hope that int test passes

because if you throwdown 2 interceptors and you whiff both, you have no options for that turn

[humble brook]

Hot take. Flyers need to not exist. They don’t make sense in any capacity in the game.

[teal basalt]

Neither do titans, but I like them in the game any way

I think their newest iteration is the best way they’ve been done

[civic acorn]

Where's the int test language btw, I'm not seeing it

[teal basalt]

I’m not sure, it was on the command and control unit, the image pops up here and there. That units one use was to provide a int test when you call a reaction, and it reduces the cost to 0.

[civic acorn]

Ah gotcha, not a part of all reactions in general

[humble brook]

Titans make way more sense than the flyers.
I have read the new flyer stuff yet but having fast moving aircraft just hanging about the little battle area doesn’t make sense. At least the titan is feet on the ground and can stand still.

[teal basalt]

But them disappearing could be seen as them circling around. Essentially attached CAS

If the area can be important enough to warrant a primarch or a titan it can be important enough for direct air support.

[dire gale]

lots of aircraft can hover

[teal basalt]

Could hover, We haven’t seen it yet if it still exists

[untold palm]

So incase this hasn't been called yet, I'm going to bet RoW have been changed to either be special detachments with different rules or modifiers to what can be taken in certain slots. I.E. Pride of The Legion can replace troop slots with elite slots.

Each legion and faction will also in turn gain access to specific detachments. I.E. Alpha legion will have a detachment that has increased elite slots or fast attack slots depending on if all legion specific troops become elites or not.

[civic acorn]

Nonsense, it's definitely more likely that you will only be able to run 2 legion units in your entire army <\s>

[teal basalt]

Possibly. Maybe it’ll be like LI, where the unique detachments call out what specific units must fill a slot.

[untold palm]

They will either make alpha legion even more powerful or completely nerf us. There will be no inbetween.

[civic acorn]

I wish I didn't need the sarcasm tag for that one but also I have seen people seriously worried Mechanicum will be able to take a total of 4 castellax and no other robots because they're definitely all going to be treated as individual dreadnoughts with no special faction rules either so 🫠

[untold palm]

Yeah the level of meltdowns and doom posting I've seen so far has been comical. This really is just the LI system with a couple of tweaks and the fact people didn't see that coming a mile off has been wack.

[civic acorn]

I am VERY interested to see what happens with the ruinstorm though; at least for summoned daemons. Probably a special detachment unlocked by Esoterist types?

...will Lorgar still let you replace any random slot in your army with daemons?

[untold palm]

Who knows. Im willing to lean on the side of something like that but then they would have to show up in the heretics liber and that would just inflate its size and value over the loyalist one unless they get militia for some reason. Oh and I am willing to go out on a leg that militia will be a army type in the solar auxillia liber.

[civic acorn]

Hey now, the loyalist book can have the extra space filled with warlord traits and RoWs for playing the traitor component of the loyalist legions, as is tradition.

[flat grove]

IMO the new rules make them make sense

[hidden flame]

the new rules are quite nice for flyers. Very much like they're used in Legions Imperialis. I don't think it'll make them 'good' per se, but at least more thematic to work with

rather than a fighter jet mysteriously hovering around doing 90 degree turns

[tepid crown]

I'm just kind of astounded by how much they changed. Charge phase for example got gigantic changes, 5x more time spent doing it, and I don't think it was in anyone's list for things that needed improvements from 2e

[silent yoke]

I think it’ll be quite fast after a few games.

It’s not hard, just different. And I’m okay with different. The rules by and large are more clear if someone actually reads them. A rarity in the player community I know

[tepid crown]

Every charge has the potential for two mini shooting phases with hits, wounds, saves, statuses, different weapons with different damages, FNPs

We're going to shoot so many bolt pistols

Shooting is fun I guess. I think they got rid of all the rerolls cause they added time rolling elsewhere

A 10 man squad with bolt pistols will get a single wound through on a volley against power armor about 50% of the time

[humble brook]

ok glancing through the new rules and yes they do make it feel more like close air support and not just random jet looming like a chopper lol

[tepid crown]

I'm hoping pistols aren't such a point sink in the libers. Will make volleys feel worth it

[silent yoke]

I’m glad some wargear actually has a purpose beyond +1 attack

[silent yoke]

Presumably they are free

Or included

[tepid crown]

Yea the +1 attack was always a bit awkward

Hopefully not many weapons get assault so it's mostly for two melee units charging at eachother fighting

I guess every support squad and tac gets pistols too, so will have equal firepower against charges

[tired furnace]

funny how people didnt leak the whole book right

they only leaked shit that was about to be revealeled the next day

[near hull]

I mean, they've leaked the entire psychic section, and the summary pages of the assault phase.
It's just a mix of different things (and them taking requests).

Them starting posting the army building stuff first, the day before the army building article, is really just a sign of how hungry people were to see the new system

[hidden flame]

well, that, and we all knew GW wouldn't give us the full picture.

[hidden cave]

any new, fresh leeks?

[untold pollen]

leaker said they're busy with work/life stuff. be the weekend before we see anymore

[last bone]

Today we're meant to get an article on vehicles

[wraith plank]

None of the liber books have been out yet, and the saturnine book only seem to carry a simplified game rule. Wonder if A2 for pistol plus sword is still there or is it incorporated into the weapon stat

[wraith plank]

I might get hate by saying this, but so far I feel like hh3e is the best core rule GW has put out in almost a decade

It's a mix of military realism and solid combat rule, hh2e tried but feels lackluster overall, 10th is basically a card game at this point that makes money off the TOP TEN META UNIT every 3 months

[hidden cave]

Changes are, indeed, more narrative-oriented

[last bone]

Today we're meant to get an article on vehicles so yay

[tribal jetty]

I'm still unsure how I really feel about the vehicle changes but today's article may change that

[last bone]

Wanna see what they did to dreadnoughts

[tribal jetty]

regardless it's better than being turned into what 40k's vehicles are

[wraith plank]

The bar couldn't be lower. but I do kinda like the vehicle changes so far, at least the vehicles aren't as squisky as they were in 2e

[sudden walrus]

vehicles still feel like vehicles, hopefully at least. But yeah, it couldn't be worse then the grey sludge of 40k

I am still unsure to some of the changes to vehicles, but they don't feel overly worse off. Though I still doubt this will be that big of a vehicle edition, or atleast tank edition.

Dreadnaughts, robots and especially stuff like sentinels will be curious however. And some miltitia picks like artillery batteries, if the smaller ones will also be split apart, as it vehicles squadrons were

[hidden cave]

There’s actually a whole system for infantry assaults against Titans, in which valiant troops climb all over the enormous war machines and desperately probe for weaknesses while the crew fight them off! You can even dispatch jump-pack equipped Space Marines to attack the head in close combat…

Woah

[tribal jetty]

oh that's cool

[full tapir]

Guessing points go up a lot because its so hard to kill one

[wraith plank]

that's super cool

[random orbit]

Really hyped for what they did with vehicles

[hidden cave]

is there a change to WS to hit table?

Was it leaked somewhere?

[random orbit]

Only for WS greater than 5

[hidden cave]

any screens to confirm that?

[dim pasture]

Really wanted hitting into a +1 to go back to 4s.

[wraith plank]

oh really? could you show where? That's pretty good

[tribal jetty]

the leaker never posted a photo, just said it was the same as 2.0

[last bone]

It seems like meltas won't be too big a problem killing vehicles

Even against a basic predator, they're penning on a 5

[hidden cave]

that's too bad

[last bone]

Statistically 5 aren't too likely to instant kill one

[hidden cave]

within 10" you need just one shot to insta kill predator

additional 2HP do not change anything at all

[dim pasture]

If you are letting melta goombas get in that range, that's really a tactical blunder on your end

[last bone]

Yeah

[hidden cave]

alright

[dark lion]

2025 year of the screens

[tribal jetty]

I'm more worried about multi meltas than regular ones

[last bone]

Especially given they're only T4 3+ bodies, definitely killable using majority of units in the game

[last bone]

MM + the buff to snap shooting will be mean

I could see a MM being like a 25 point per model weapon tho

[hidden cave]

'Heavy' isnt affecting your targeting any longer

[dim pasture]

Like above, you should be screening tanks

[tribal jetty]

I can see MM being Heavy(RS) as well

[last bone]

Forgot that yeah

Still, only 12 inches for the crazy damage

[wraith plank]

Also I think melta no longer rolls 2d6

[last bone]

Might even see MM get a range nerf to 18 or something

[hidden cave]

No, within (x) range it doubles its D

[last bone]

Well it's a + to damage, we might see some melta weapons get less of a damage buff

[hidden cave]

Again no, Melta rule grants Armourbane and doubles the damge

[wraith plank]

so basically +1 to ap, and double the damage

[hidden cave]

Again no, no bonuses to the AP, it converts glancing hits to penetrating hits and then doubles the damage

it one-shots contemptors and predators within 6" (meltaGUN)

Laser cannons are now 2D when stationary, and will also easily eliminate a Predator or Contemptor

it's getting more brutal

[dim pasture]

This is why ABC is important

[hidden cave]

with exploding vehicles gone, now we have a different way of having the same exact outcome after shooting

in this case wore for dreadnought for sure (that's deserved)

[last bone]

Always be charging!

[dim pasture]

Dreads at least still have a invul

[dim pasture]

Yeah buddy!

[last bone]

As the other flavour of wolf I hard agree

One vibe I'm getting is this edition is gonna be very lethal

Which I'm kinda hyped for, especially if SoH still get good melee buffs

[quaint torrent]

“Easily” is a stretch. Ten BS4 stationary Lascannons barely kill a Predator on average without cover.

[random orbit]

Look out to the subreddit

[wraith plank]

any specific link or username I should be look for?

[hidden cave]

6,6 damage on average with BS4, remain stationary against Predator's Front plate. Predator is 5HP

That is kind of "easily"

[wraith plank]

6 hit, half pen, 2d, that's exactly 6 damage

but again, 10 lascannon shoooting a predator in the open should absolutely kill it

[dim pasture]

We also don't know the cost of a 10 man Las team. Plus if someone dumps 300(as of now) into a single tank a 2/3s of the cost it probably should eff it up.

[hidden cave]

for Lascannons glance=pen

[quaint torrent]

Precisely my point. If you’re sinking that much into a target and barely killing it, freaking out is unwarranted.

[wraith plank]

that's already accounted for, s9 armorbane, need 4+ to pen 13

[last bone]

We also gotta see how expensive these units will be

[wraith plank]

yeah, in the end of the day we need to see the cost

[last bone]

If 10 las costs a cool 500 points that's less good

[dim pasture]

Also the issue now wasn't the lethality of a las team, it was that they could shoot 3 times in the opponents turn via reactions. That's been gutted

[wraith plank]

that applies to everything, but from what I can see, it seems that units are getting more expensive

[hidden cave]

They cannot

[last bone]

That too lol

[dim pasture]

In 2e yes they could

[wraith plank]

this is 3k

[hidden cave]

I mean they cannot shoot 3 times any longer

[dim pasture]

Exactly, so the over all lethality is greatly tuned down. You can now pick them off easier and pressure the opponent to burn command points or die and free up other units to take them out.

[full tapir]

Corax and the Spartan are over 1/4 of the points

[hidden cave]

Well, that's true. If you wont save a Reaction Point for Overwatch on your las team then any unit can easily down them in the glorious melee combat without any troubles, becouse then cannot Volley Fire nor fight properly

[full tapir]

If you swapped Corax for like 40 despoilers it'd be bigger

[dim pasture]

Exactly. The bait game in reactions is one of the more important things to learn with heresy and will be more important this edition

Just like setting up multi charges

[random orbit]

Anyone try to calculate the point for actual 2.0 ?

[teal basalt]

something thats neat too is that if someone gets into set up range, theres nothing you can do about it. if you movement react away, you cant overwatch and they still have a good chance to catch you, and you cant overwatch anyway if there in set up range

[wraith plank]

with no upgrade or whatsoever

huh...

[teal basalt]

is that all of the upgrades thrown in?

[wraith plank]

no, zero upgrade, just base unit based on number of model

but I doubt full upgrades will make a 800pts difference so I think the points definitely get raised

we are looking at 3.5k for the original 3k I believe, and 1.5k may actuallty be viable

[ebon willow]

No way a tactical squad is anything else than 100pts barebone

[hidden cave]

Yeah, I cant wait for jump pack teams to play with them!

[wraith plank]

and if the targeted unit is under any status, they can't react at all and had to melee with i1

[random orbit]

I have 2400 pts without option

[wraith plank]

seems like assault squad and despoiler squad will rely on some kind of synergies

[random orbit]

Except catphractii in TLC

[random orbit]

Spartan are usually played with flare shield (50pts),

[rigid canyon]

Just saw the new warcom article. "Vehicles have way more HP!!"

Way more is 3->5 I can't see this working out in vehicles favour with Damage 2 lascannons rocking about. Nevermind the melta threat too.

Points going to tell a big story.

[random orbit]

Tactical squad need to keep the 10pts/man

They are the template unit

LSS need to be nerfed not only for the damage output against others but to promote the others Weapons option

[wraith plank]

yeah

the reason LSS everywhere in 2e was due to the fact lascannon kills everything, and there are too many thing that only lascannons could kill effectively

[rigid canyon]

I can't say for sure, but I have a feeling Stunned is going to be a key concept for legions like WE, NL, SW, WS and such. Melee really needs to shut down reactions in order to function if they're slogging it across the board.

[wraith plank]

had I had 10 HB they wouldn't do shit against, say, a squad of special smurf jump marine all rolling in 2+

[random orbit]

Why bring melta when you can have a slighty less lethal weapon with 2-4x the range

I play HSS with volkite because volkite is cool

[dim pasture]

They were smart not to let wolves have telepathy in 2.0 lol

[wraith plank]

that and reaction points are being limited to base 2 in a 3.5k game, they are now precious resources that need to be spent wisely, at least that's how I feel

[rigid canyon]

Same. Volkite and Plasma for me. They're just cool.

[random orbit]

Like we already did with NL, we have even bonus against units under "status"

Happy to see more strategy of neutralize ennemy before butcher them

[rigid canyon]

Telepathy was a mistake. We just avoided using it in my gaming groups - aside from TSons we were like "yeah, fair enough"

[teal basalt]

i think the article meant this is 3000 in 2.0

because it lands really close

[wraith plank]

in 2e I could see: jump marine rolling in range of LSS, then recon squad with nemesis bolter pinning them in place

[dim pasture]

It was massively over tuned. Most people tried it once and realized how broken it was. Especially running double or triple librarians.

[rigid canyon]

I felt like that was more NL are reallygood at pinning whereas I'm theorising that in 3rd you're going to have to bring good Stunning or you'll be in trouble.

[random orbit]

Yeaaah, welcome to our world brother lmao

We need to tenderize the flesh first

[teal basalt]

you dont need to slog now that you can charge out of rhinos, and you can shut down reactions just by getting close enough

stunning will be good but i think its not going to be super vital

if anything itll be bigger for shooting armies

[rigid canyon]

For most legions they don't wanna be doing disordered charges though. Well, it remains to be seen tbf, mine didn't care about disordered much since we still got our bonus but others really did care. Who knows how it'll be now.

[teal basalt]

they dont want to be doing disordered charges if they can help it, but a despoiler squad can still ruin a TSS's day without the bonuses

[rigid canyon]

Yeah but it's gotta be a lot more killy now without sweep. If your opponents saves are good your unit can be locked up chasing them down for 2 or 3 turns.

Already thinking about making more power weapon models to prepare 😅

Might to with mauls cause mauls are cool

And ap3

[hidden cave]

charging from rhino is disrupted therefore you cannot use set-up move and by this you can't shut down the overwatch, and also iirc there is a second reaction leting you to set away from the charge, am I right?

[teal basalt]

yes and yes, but my point is that there are a lot of tools beyond stunned to help melee armies in this ed. if they back up from the charge they cant shoot etc.

[hidden cave]

True.
I bet rotor cannons are going to be a thing in this edition becouse they only need to score a HIT to apply its status. Suppressive (x) I think it was called.

[hasty jay]

Huh... Is there overlap between the statuses? Like if you're suppressed but not stunned... can you still react with shooting?

[wraith plank]

status disables any and all reaction

[teal basalt]

theres some key overlaps, go to I1, and so on, but the 3 main things: snap shoot, cant move, cant react, are all unique

[wraith plank]

wait, let me check again

[hidden cave]

no, but there are other benefits

[wraith plank]

I see, only stunned and routed disable reaction

[rigid canyon]

Na just stunned stops reactions

[wraith plank]

surpressed and pinning remain unchanged

[rigid canyon]

Any status makes it i1 combat iirc

[wraith plank]

yeah, but can still overwatch

[hidden cave]

Suppressed status is not only causing units to fire snap shots, but also their charges are distrupted (no set-up move) and they cannot gain bonuses for remaining stationary (so it effectively shuts down HSS Lascannon teams damage output GREATLY)

[dim pasture]

Evade reaction is only for light and calvary units. So it won't be a massive issue.

[wraith plank]

sounds like my rotor cannon squad is getting better and better

[hidden cave]

or the punisher tank

I like how complex this game will be

[dim pasture]

I knew building 5 of them last edition would pay off!

[hidden cave]

I wonder how volkite weapons are going to look like

and we havent see any of the Assault trait weapons that can Volley Fire yet

[wraith plank]

I always had 5 of them running on foot because they are cheap, and are a nuissance if ignored

[rare crystal]

Only the bolt pistol so far

[humble brook]

oh we get to see the tank stat line

[hidden cave]

Where was it shown?

[humble brook]

would need to double check but I believe it was on the page with the volley fire rules said something about assault or pistolsdouble checked and it does say just assault weapons.

[rare crystal]

Can't remember but I'm sure I saw a bolt pistol with the assault rule. Maybe in a preview?

[hidden cave]

nvm found it

[full tapir]

Oh so everyone will always volley fire after all

So much time wasting to charge, I'll stick to my guns

[humble brook]

I mean.......maybe

[sudden walrus]

volleyfire will probably be mostly a marine and custodes thing. Most other armies don't have any sidearms en masse, unless the rule gets spread to many more weapons

[humble brook]

just depends on how much stuff gets that sweet sweete Assault tag

[full tapir]

Yeah, easy to forget not everyone just has pistols and grenades all the time

[hidden cave]

short volkites are my bet 👌
Make breachers great a... at all!

[humble brook]

that would be great, love me some volkite

[dim pasture]

Anyone have a shot of the barrage special rule for 3.0?

[wraith plank]

A Weapon with this Special Rule may be used to attack Target Units out of Line of Sight.

If a Unit for which a Shooting Attack is made includes any Models with one or more Weapons with this Special Rule, then in Step 2 of the Shooting Attack process they may ignore the restriction on requiring Line of Sight to a Target Unit. If a Player uses this Special Rule to declare a Shooting Attack on a Unit that the attacking Unit cannot draw a Line of Sight to, then in Step 3 of the Shooting Attack process that Player may only declare attacks with Weapons that have this Special Rule.

If a Weapon with this Special Rule and the Blast (X) Special Rule is used to attack a Unit without Line of Sight to that Unit, then no Hit Test is made and an Indirect Scatter Roll must be made for the Blast Marker placed as part of the attack. If such a Weapon makes more than a single attack then a separate Indirect Scatter Roll is made for each attack. When making an Indirect Scatter Roll for such an attack, the number of Dice rolled alongside the Scatter Dice is determined by the value of X for the Weapon with the Barrage (X) Special Rule, the value of these Dice is then totalled to find the distance the attack Scatters.

Thanks Claude

[dim pasture]

Lmao thanks

[hot tundra]

Almost to 2k messages guys. Keep it up

[grave plume]

only 28000 to go

[tulip garden]

Lupercal Lupercal Lupercal

[fleet dew]

Live laugh love

[wraith pasture]

Any new leaks

[wraith pasture]

Basically the biggest leak since 2.0

Exactly what the forum was made for

[stoic orbit]

Doesn't seem like it, guy is apparently busy till the weekend.

[acoustic gale]

busy playin heresy

[wraith pasture]

Busy developing the new meta before anyone else gets a chance

[near hull]

I love the idea of posting fake leaks just to get ahead of the ACTUAL meta, that'd be so funny

[fleet dew]

If I were him I would be busy with a second account being in here spreading some stupid theories what will be broken and what will be overpowered.

[wraith plank]

regardless I must purchase that rapier squad...

[humble brook]

I'm hyped about them and hopefully can get my hands on some

[wraith pasture]

Secretly a gw plant all along trying to deliberately influence people's purchases

"Oh yeah you're TOTALLY gonna need 8 boxes of tarantulas"

[fleet dew]

Speaking off, I will order some rapiers tomorrow

[wraith plank]

even the gw store won't be getting them until weeks later right?

[humble brook]

I would guess its going to be a two week "pre-order" window

so like end of June or early July