Total War: Warhammer 40,000

[neat elm]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5jrkAhmGu8

[neat elm]

Summary of the alleged rumours above;

• has heard that no Warhammer games were affected by the restructuring / shuffling that took place at Creative Assembly at this time, but that both the Warhammer and Star Wars teams were reinforced.

• has heard (from a trusted source) that Friends and Family testing has recently taken place, and is targeting June 2025 for an official announcement.

• soft launch / open testing in February 2026, with full release in Winter 2026

• has heard that campaign map will be both galaxy (system) and ground; unclear if space battles will be available at launch, but most likely.

• new mechanics being introduced; dogfighting (for aircraft), framework for walkers. Dogfighting originally designed for cancelled WW1 Total War.

• factions; Space Marines, Chaos Space Marines, Orks, Eldar, with sub-factions available.

[vale lance]

Seems we've got a good amount of things to hesitantly look forward to for this summer. HH 2.5/3.0, 40k faction expansions, this new rumor, etc

[neat elm]

Definitely going to be a spicy 2025 if this all pans out.

[vale lance]

The only negative I have with this rumor is that it means I have to wait longer for a potential Total War: AoS

[neat elm]

Honestly, it's the death of WW1 TW for me.

I would've killed for that.

[lone mica]

same

wonder why it got cancelled, cancelling ww1 tw but doing 40k tw kinda seems like going from the kids pool to the deep end of the pacific ocean in terms of combat styles CA isnt as experienced in modeling

[nocturne copper]

40k is a save cashcow, ww1 isnt i think

[vale lance]

Ye. Especially since theyve built up a solid warhammer fanbase with their previous games

[sick tinsel]

And they have likely seen that people are just not nearly as interested in historical games as well as WW stuff is a lot more covered in other games so wouldn't be as unique

[vale lance]

40k also uses melee combat far more than WWI would have, so maybe it's easier to transfer to that setting

[buoyant light]

I’m cautiously optimistic about this. I recently finished an Arbaal campaign that was loads of fun (unless I had to fight chaos dwarfs)

[vale lance]

Ya I could see them doing some good stuff here

[neat garnet]

I'm very hesitant because I just can't imagine how the Total War game engine would be remotely appropriate for a 40k universe game

A Rank&Flank engine is just not gonna work
I don't like what they've done with WH:TW though mind. Shogan is still the peak imo

[manic ingot]

They would likely make a new engine entirely no? If bricks of infantry aren't what they are looking for

[vale lance]

Guess we'll find out in 6+ months

[lucid flax]

i think you misunderstand what an engine is tbh

[ionic vortex]

That and I think some aspects are transferable from the current TW:WH game system, you’re going to expect guard to act like regular (Empire) infantry, which is rank and file to ensure weight of fire on targets, Marines may be treated more like Monstrous Infantry etc

It wouldn’t be a clean translation from WH to 40k if they did that, but you wouldn’t expect them to

As Fil says, wait and see

[vale lance]

I am an expert in wait and see. I'm still waiting to see Titanfall 3 after all

[ionic vortex]

You and I both for that

[lone mica]

i think its more like that space marines will be a relative baseline for infantry and guard will be more like skaven

en masse horde army of neverending bodies

[buoyant light]

I hope not, it would be visually jarring to have armies just fighting in the open.

[lone mica]

also iirc guard and t'au arent mentioned in the rumour as coming, its possible its not comprehensive, but. it makes reasonable sense if they arent, they're the hardest 2 factions to really adapt to total wars game mechanics

space marines, CSM, aeldari, and orks can all play well with the current mechanics developed for tww, imperial guard and t'au would need alot of support to work as armies

it would be quite challenging to find a way for (basically) ranged only armies to be engaging and competitive without them just dumpstering the other factions, and they'd likely have to be factored into map designs for sightlines etc

[sick tinsel]

They probably also just plan on it doing as well or better than TWWH so are gonna split it into multiple games with all the factions coming over time

[pastel breach]

hoping they do a HH dlc or something

[buoyant light]

A HH DLC where you just start with only Terra and Mars and conquer the galaxy would be the best case scenario

[pastel breach]

That would actually make an amazing DLC
Starts with the great crusade
You have to go around and find all the primarchs
Then the big oh shit event is horus

[red rampart]

Honesty with the factions present and seeing as it’s currently all guessing and wish lists
But vigilus sounds like a decent option for the focus if they want a named lore event
Of course they could go with anything new as well but just first thing that came to mind
Overall I’ll gladly sit in the wait and see room

[lone mica]

if i had to guess i'd imagine the games set either during or after the 13th black crusade

[vale lance]

If it's a 40k game, it will probably be during the indomitus crusade since GW mandates primaris space marines

[mossy pendant]

It'll be set at the absolute most recent point so they can maximize the amount of named characters

[buoyant light]

Yes, it’s about to put the worst monetization schemes to shame.

[stiff marsh]

I wonder what they are going to do to mix it up a bit? as much as I love Total War Warhammer, I would be disappointed if it was just reskinned

I feel like they need to have some sort of change to account for the ranged weapons, and that as much as warhammer can essentially be two armis just clashing in a field, there's also an element of tactics in urban warfare, using cover etc

[misty tangle]

this has been my issue with this idea for a while. fantasy is a rank and file game, so fit beautifully into total wars mechanics. 40k isnt, and total war struggles with urban enviroments and squad level units.
if this rumour is real, i have a feeling the game is going to be wildly different in gameplay to all the other total war titles, and the further it is from the formula, the more id be concerned about creative assembely's ability to pull it off.

because having an SM tactical squad and a guard infantry squad stand squarely opposite each other blasting away is not going to be fun.

[neat elm]

I think that's been the general expectation; uses the Total War branding, but dramatically different gameplay.

[stiff marsh]

That's what I'm hoping

[fossil wagon]

rank and file gameplay does not work for a lot of the settings infantry. guardsmen would fight more like modern infantry.

[earnest loom]

Yeah total war is an abysmal choice for a 40k game, an updated DoW 1 or 2 would be much better.

[sick tinsel]

I mean people were saying the same thing about a Fantasy Total War game when they announced it first

[ionic vortex]

Don’t you besmirch the Mordians like that!

[misty tangle]

it does make me wonder then why people keep saying TW is a great fit for 40k, if the idea is that it will be radically different game.

[sick tinsel]

I don't see people saying that I see most people just saying it's gonna be different and interesting but not outright just saying it can't work and is gonna be terrible

[fossil wagon]

A larger scale game would be better.

One could actually make the game more lore accurate with that.
Having titans becomes possible too.

[sick tinsel]

Also it's a different studio it's really not up to GW or CA to make a new DoW

[misty tangle]

but you can at least draw parallels between total war and fantasy's mechanics.
rank and file formations, a focus on flanking and morale modifiers etc.

[shy prism]

eh 40k still has at least lorewise big armies clashing in classical ways

like there's old art i gotta find, it's guard and tau fighting

[sick tinsel]

True but people said stuff like Dragons and magic wouldn't be possible or work, CA has already started testing stuff like armor facings with the Steamtank

[fossil wagon]

With larger scale maps and more realistic firing ranges we can have astartes that are vastly stronger than a guardsmen.

[misty tangle]

there are definetly bits and pieces where 40k armies are shown as fighting in line warfare, but whilst it looks cool, making it feel fun to play would be a hurculean task.

[shy prism]

i don't know the source

[sick tinsel]

It's also able to have more realistic unit sizes you can have giant units of guardsmen VS only a few SMs

[fossil wagon]

Yes.
That's why larger scale would be better.

[shy prism]

with the leaks being marines/chaos marines/eldar/orks specifically

it does lose out on the potential for imperial guard as a starter faction

[fossil wagon]

Imperium with no guardsmen is cursed.

[misty tangle]

rest in peace the eldar who have to stand in the open hoping the orks dont reach them.

[shy prism]

i mean i'm assuming that will be different

with buildings and cover and stuff

but even then, eldar have always been about movement anyway so they wouldn't just be standing still

[fossil wagon]

Eldar could have some very unique gameplay if they are made more lore accurate.

Their vehicles are stupidly fast lore wise.

[shy prism]

maybe they'll have army-wide shoot while moving lol

[fossil wagon]

They would have low numbers but would be hyper mobile and have good firepower.

[vale lance]

Guess we’ll find out in 6ish months

[shy prism]

probably longer, CA said closer to the end of the year

this and the also leaked star wars game

[misty tangle]

what did CA say?

[shy prism]

that they're gonna reveal new games towards the end of the year lol

[sick tinsel]

I have a feeling the SW game was somebody who doesn't know Warhammer seeing a Sci Fi thing and just calling it Starwars

[shy prism]

nah, star wars is a consistent leak from the same sources as 40k

along with ww1 both starting development and being cancelled

[earnest loom]

if people thought Warhammer wouldnt work with TW then they were idiots, Warhammer armies, even the monsters and weird stuff fight well within the margins of the periods TW already covers, flying stuff just moves slightly differently.

40k on the other hand needs entirely new mechanics for nearly every army and a much more significant terrain system because they dont just stand around in blocks and rock up to each other. Vehicles arent the problem, infantry is!

[ionic vortex]

Plus, if the settlement battles in WH3 are anything to go off of, the pathing for urban combat needs some major work

[stiff marsh]

That is just stupid though. It's still not the same. Fantasy is a rank and file game. 40k never has been.

[vale lance]

They'll have to adapt. There's not much debate about that. I'm more so curious on how they will adapt, which we'll probably hear about in the second half of this year

[stiff marsh]

Same

[shy prism]

I actually would like to see a rank and flank version of 40k. I feel like it could kinda work as weird as it sounds.

Or, more accurately, i want to see a diorama base version of the game lol

[stiff marsh]

It's just not how 40k armies fight

Just line up in an open field and shoot at eachother would be a dull affair with nothing tactical to offer

It only works if it's like epic scale I suppose

Because then it becomes a "presentation of a unit" in a street or w.e rather than a zoomed in perspective where they are using cover etc

[red rampart]

As you say it works for epic scale
You wanna see them all use cover ? DoW2 is there
You wanna see a small squad move and clear an area ? Chaos gate is there
You wanna move a small demi company and use one unit at a time ? Battlesector
And let’s be honest the art for the editions etc always have armies just grinding one another down which would fit for a total war game

[earnest loom]

Except it doesnt work for epic scale? The generals dont all get kicked in the head by a grox just because the armies are bigger

it happens in universe sure, but the folks doing that in universe are widely considered to be idiots by their peers.

[red rampart]

I mean in regards to larger armies than we are used to seeing in terms of gameplay
So instead of units of 10 we get something suitable for a total war style of game

[terse ridge]

theres so much classic art of 2 huge armies smashing each other in 40k, which the tabletop has never actually been (except EPIC).

That's what I picture for total war

i trust CA to deliver tho, they've made enough games I've sunk hundreds of hours into

And even better, it means someone will make a 30k mod which I'll spend forever playing

[red rampart]

Just a few examples

They’d never behave like that in lore or on the tabletop but that’s not what a total war game is trying to replicate
It’s throwing thousands of troops at one another to have a good ol time

[terse ridge]

the lore does it in heresy

lots of examples of huge mass battles - and 40k even too, just not as often

[red rampart]

And that only doesn’t happen as often as loyalists are in chapters now for 40k
Yet going by the covers you’d think everyone was there killing each other
Like I said I got other warhammer games for smaller scale and more tactical stuff
I wanna throw armies at each other for this

[earnest loom]

Have you not played many total war games? I know they arent as dry as they have been in the past, but at their core they are trying to be simulations...

Not to mention art, especially promotional art is not often an accurate representation of affairs, for a whole bunch of reasons.

That sort of thing feels like a great subject for a mod, rather than a flagship game.

[red rampart]

The hours I’ve spent on rome 2… so yes I have
What I am saying tho is the art above is more what you’d expect from a total war style of game
How they work it remains to be seen but while the art is a representation it still means a total war game works for 40k
How exactly they’ll work it I’ll gladly wait and see
But I don’t want a total war game and get upset my squads aren’t using cover when I have an army to manage
Again if I want small squads to be all tactical etc I got DoW2
And yet the original DoW was just units standing in rank and shooting at one another unless in melee… your just scaling it up

So basically I’m in the camp of I’ll gladly wait and see what comes of it
Either way I get another warhammer game I can lose countless hours on as my models judge me for not painting them

[fossil wagon]

armies slamming at each other rts doesn't have to be people in rank and file.
It can be something more similar to wargame or warno.

[digital blaze]

Hot take: 40k doesn't suit total war gameplay. You need cover, pinning etc etc which their game engine just doesn't do well.

[shy prism]

i imagine it will look like this

like the art of huge formations slamming into each other is omnipresent in warhammer

[sick tinsel]

It's not gonna be 40K it's gonna be more like epic look at the other unit sizes in total war

[fossil wagon]

bigger scale game can also have cover.
its just that cover would have to be larger such as terrain features and garrisonable buildings/districts.

[stiff marsh]

Exactly

[stiff marsh]

This is a good representation imo

The other ones aren't imo

It's like a representation of a battle painted by someone who wasn't there and only had it described to them that you see in real life examples

[shy prism]

more than any other art, this is what i look to when it comes to total war 40k inspiration

[stiff marsh]

Reducing it to "units shooting at each other" on an open field misses the point entirely for me.

I'm thinking purely from the idea of how 40k would play if it was literally the same battle system of TWW3. And I just think it would be dull and I would be disappointed.

I'm not saying that's what they will do, I'm sure they will do something to make it play differently and make it more dynamic. But as it stands just plopping 40k into a Total War game for me, isn't enough.

[stiff marsh]

That's better

Either way I think we are all on the same page and going about in circles a bit

[shy prism]

all of the leaked factions are also notable for lots of melee

[stiff marsh]

Hmmm that makes me more worried

But I've not seen the actual game so I'll have faith

[vale lance]

Don’t see why. Melee has to be a core concept of the game since there are melee heavy factions. Starting out with hybrid armies is simply the logical choice since it gives them an easier starting point

It’s the smart thing to do, not a point of concern

[shy prism]

well, all four are hybrid

i love typos that completely change the meaning of what you're saying

[vale lance]

Ya typing is hard sometimes lol

[stiff marsh]

It's more that in my head it makes then more likely to be lazy with it as it will play like TWW

[vale lance]

Meant to say with, not without

[shy prism]

i have adhd i fuck up typing all the time

[vale lance]

Spell check isn’t making my life any easier

[stiff marsh]

I do the same thing lol

[stiff marsh]

What I mean by this is that TWW is in itself the same engine from Napoleon, and I really want them to produce something new

[shy prism]

they've been using an updated engine for non tww games

and it's a lot better

[pastel breach]

This picture got me really excited because for a hot second there i thought that bane blade had plasma Sponsons and i was about to go out and buy a bane blade for my dangels

[misty tangle]

If you want it to be like those images, you’d need bolters to be melee weapons.

Arts fun and all, but that art of black legion vs ultramarines literally has them standing back to back to each other.

[red rampart]

I never said that’s how they’d fight
It’s the scale of the art is something a total war game would bring
How they will work the systems we have no idea but I want large battles seeing as it’s a total war game

[red rampart]

@earnest loom something about my message so hilarious was it ?
I mean every total war I’ve ever played is campaign management, territory, resources, diplomacy… and the battle map are large armies of 20 units battling it out

[earnest loom]

Yes because youve been going on about how they should fight like a painting for days

[red rampart]

Missing the point entirely then
I didn’t say they’d fight like a painting, just the scale could be like the representation of what we see
Hardly the same thing
But seeing as no one knows anything I didn’t think giving my opinion on what I’d like would mean so much to get snide comments

And replying to another comment that someone tagged me in from one I made 3 days ago is hardly going on about it for days 🙄

[stiff marsh]

Your good dude this was a constructive conversation for me personally and I appreciate your input

If I was one of those that came off snide at any point I apologise

I guess I agree in the end just hope they can maybe add some interesting terrain interactions and dynamics!

[bitter hare]

Praying someone is alr prepping and planning a 30k mod, I need it

[terse ridge]

You know it'll happen haha

I'm also hoping for a unification wars mod