custodes - AoD - ~1K - starter list (based on available models)

[mellow rain]

+++ New Roster ((HH V2) Horus Heresy (2022)) [1,020Pts] +++

++ Crusade Force Organisation Chart (2022 - LI - Custodes) ++

• Expanded Army Lists +

Expanded Army List Profiles:: Exemplary Units On, Legacy Units On

• Allegiance: +

Allegiance: Loyalist

Legio Custodes

• HQ: +

Custodian Shield Captain: Guardian Spear, Warlord

• Elites: +

Contemptor-Achillus Dreadnought: 2x Lastrum Storm Bolter
. Achillus Dreadspear with In-built Corvae Las-Pulser

Hetaeron Guard Squad
. Hetaeron Guard: Guardian Spear
. Hetaeron Guard: Guardian Spear
. Hetaeron Guard: Guardian Spear

• Troops: +

Custodian Guard Squad
. 3x Custodian Guard w/ Guardian Spear: 3x Guardian Spear

Custodian Guard Squad
. 4x Custodian Guard w/ Guardian Axe: 4x Guardian Axe

So that’s a legal list that would use all of those models, not exactly optimal but it would function fine in a casual setting

[jagged swan]

thank you !

[mellow rain]

This would use the wardens are spear guard and allarus as hetaeron

You could of course use the wardens as Het but that prevents using the arallus really

[jagged swan]

is it a problem if one of warden and allarus have banners ?

[mellow rain]

Not really

Both spear guard and Het can buy a vexilla and master crafted power weapon for 15pts

Or vex and sentinel blade for 20pts (always worth it over the power weapon imo)

So the list is the same but 40 more points

The vex is also really really nice for Ld rerolls

[jagged swan]

what else could i add to go 2K ? i like everything in custodes except vehicles since they are a bit expensive in euro and not very fun to play

i planned on obtaining a telemon

[mellow rain]

Telemon is a good way to increase points, but it’s quite underwhelming in terms of power unfortunately

On the plus side though, you could literally buy 4 more guard boxes and add more troops units - suddenly that 2k lost would be very powerful

[jagged swan]

what are interesting weapons for telemon ? they all look good

[mellow rain]

We had a long discussion about this in #legio-custodes not too long ago which you could search for, but tldr I think the way to go with the tele is a fist and an illiastus cannon

[jagged swan]

o

good that's what i liked the most aestetically

[mellow rain]

Illiastus over the blaze simply because the latter has only a 12” range, and you need a fist because otherwise you can get locked up in melee and you are just stuck there

[jagged swan]

for custodes guard is it better to have large units or MSU is better ?

[mellow rain]

So for optimisation, I think 5 is a great spot, but anywhere from 5-10 is good

[jagged swan]

ok ok i'll maybe do units of 5 spears and 10 shields

is the fact custodes "only" have a 6++ a problem or its okay

i'm used to their native 4++ in 40k

[mellow rain]

They are still strong, mostly because of how saves work differently in 30k

[jagged swan]

o so i'll get 2+ more often

is the other dreadnought intereting to add ?

like i'd get 1 dreadnought for spearmen and one for shieldmen

[mellow rain]

The galatus?

Yeah it’s really good

[jagged swan]

I think its going to be my next custodes

[mellow rain]

So saves in 30k don’t get modified like in 40k, so attacks have an AP that either penetrates your armour or doesn’t. So against most attacks you just roll your 2+, if a weapon has AP2 (or 1), it pens the armour so you can’t use it. In that case you have your 6++

[jagged swan]

indeed indeed

i'm just quite oblivious about the abundance or not of ap2-1

[mellow rain]

Depends on the list honestly

A standard army won’t have too much

But some definitely

Custodes definitely feel more durable in 30k than 40k

[jagged swan]

o

good to know

at first reading they didn't seemed very good to me

[mellow rain]

It’s the only army in the game that has a near-army-wide 2+, every other army would kill for that

[jagged swan]

ok ok

do sister of silence help them well ?

if i want to add like 500pts of them

[mellow rain]

Ummm

[keen elm]

tons~

[mellow rain]

So yes, but it’s more complicated

If you’re just started

[keen elm]

Judge vestal prosuctors with needlers and snipers is ~ 485 points or so

Solid list btw~

[jagged swan]

i don't understand sorry

[keen elm]

Thats what I would add sister wise

[mellow rain]

Sisters are much more complex than custodes, with a bunch of complicated rules - they’re also expensive to collect

[jagged swan]

oh imeant i don't understand what's a judge vestal proseductor with needlers and snipers

[keen elm]

Take a look at em in LI

Thats a good core support force (ranged attacking) that can thin out issues the stodes will have

Snipers to remove characters

Neelders to pin units.. Judge/Vestal to support the prosecutors

[mellow rain]

Hq: silent judge,
Elites: knight vestal,
Troops: prosecutors (with needlers)
HS: sanctioners (snipers)

[jagged swan]

oh ok

[keen elm]

Been adding sisters for months.. and I still am learning about em =/

[jagged swan]

the qt and elite looks easy to build

not too sure how to build needlers tho

[keen elm]

just use bolters

or.. if you have extra Drukari, the splinter rifles fit perfect

[mellow rain]

I’ve seen people use the SoS flamers and replace the canister and barrel with something more… needley

[jagged swan]

i thought about using wracks fials and add them to bolters

so they shoot poisonous bolts

tho i didn't expected sisters of silence to like such weaponerie

[keen elm]

they have some cool weapons

Snare bikes are also VERY powerful.. but much like the whole of SOS require some serious finesse

[jagged swan]

o

but basically how do they complete custodes lists ?

[keen elm]

they are like peanutbutter and Jelly.. best together (to quote Neoth~)

[mellow rain]

Sisters can provide a lot of utility that custodes can’t access in there own army

[keen elm]

and viceversa

[mellow rain]

E.g. cheap objective holders, pinning weapons, snipers

[jagged swan]

i see, more flexible too i guess ?

[mellow rain]

Ummm

[jagged swan]

since they have special rules and more equipement

[mellow rain]

Kinda

[keen elm]

They can fill niche roles

[mellow rain]

There is more variety in the SoS

But custodes are the definition of simple and powerful

There are very strong

[keen elm]

The bigges thing with SOS is they are fragile.. A glass Cannon if you will

[jagged swan]

even with their stealth ?

[mellow rain]

What do you mean?

[jagged swan]

i remember them having a rule like exodus

-6"? to range

[mellow rain]

Oh yeah

Only some units have it, but yeah it can be very powerful

[keen elm]

I have had that Judge (HQ) vestal (elite) and Prosecutor unit (trooops) (280ish points total) Tie down 500 points of terminators shooting them for 1-2 turns and remove characters.

The stealth kept them from getting shot..

The judge with Precision was able to snipe out a Librarian

and because of the -1 LD on the turn they came in they got pinned.. and shot again

they lost 4 terminators to just sisters..

[mellow rain]

But again it requires a lot of finesse; and knowing your opponents ranges

[keen elm]

then the stodes caught up.. and punked the unit

[jagged swan]

i see

so sisters needs a lot of game sense

[keen elm]

Yes

[mellow rain]

Much more than custodes

[keen elm]

The way I learned them was slowly adding them to my lists

Judge + Prosecutors

Then snipers

[mellow rain]

Sisters have a higher skill ceiling and much lower skill floor

Like if you build/play wrong you’ll just get stomped

[keen elm]

Im two racoons in an Aurimite suit and I can use em effectively tho~

[mellow rain]

But custodes are baseline very hard to fuck up with

[keen elm]

What I would recomend if you can find em second hand or whatnot is get 10-12 Sisters.. model them to fit a Judge (much easier to use and learn than the melee options) and prosecutors.

I just hate the cost on sisters as Seraphine mentioned earlier.

20 sisters is $240 USD...

Where 20 marines is 80? I cant remeber what marines cost but you get the idea.

[mellow rain]

I think that’s a good way to do it

If your goal is to get a good cheap army on the table quickly though, I’d avoid sisters for now

[jagged swan]

for the hq i thought about using the named sister of silence

laureline ?

[keen elm]

Oh Jen

[mellow rain]

Oh krole?

[keen elm]

or Aleya?

[jagged swan]

yes Aleya

i thought she was called Laureline because of Valerian and laureline comics

[keen elm]

She makes an execlent Melee HQ!

shes on my paint desk right now~

[mellow rain]

You could use her as a knight abyssal/centura

[keen elm]

Yup!

[jagged swan]

i like the name Knight abyssal

very dark souls name

[mellow rain]

You’ll like the rules too, she’s a monster

[keen elm]

Jen is a Scalpel.

Can finish off just about every named character (outside of primarchs) no problem

[jagged swan]

is the base kit easy to pose / convert ?

[keen elm]

No sadly

[mellow rain]

Oh? Damn

[jagged swan]

o :(

[mellow rain]

I haven’t ever looked at the sprue

Wait, Aleya or krole?

[jagged swan]

her pose is already perfect

nono i meant base sisters

[mellow rain]

Base sisters are a pain to repose but it can be done

See my posted pics in #sisters-of-silence

[jagged swan]

so knight centura gives ex-oblivio right ?

[mellow rain]

Krole, abyssal and centura all have the rule

[jagged swan]

o

so what does abyssal have more ?

[keen elm]

Judge has it too IIRC

[mellow rain]

Slightly improved profile overall, with plus she can buy a paragon blade

[jagged swan]

o so she's like a praetor and centura is a centurion

[mellow rain]

She’s a 0-1 choice (I.e. you can only take 1)

Exactly

[keen elm]

Ah nope.. No ex on the judge

[mellow rain]

Good lol

She’s good enough as is

[keen elm]

ya

[jagged swan]

what are ther other hq for then ?

[keen elm]

Fury is to make your bikes extra nasty

The judge has a cool rule that makes it so non fearless/stubborn units cant react to her..

She can (Vestal too) also fight quite well

and her whole unit is -12" to be shot unless nightvision or Primarch.

And gives em a 5++? vs shooting

Also gives one bonus VP for slay the warlord!

[jagged swan]

but i guess knight abyssal should be the priority first

[keen elm]

I honestly never run the melee sisters.

They are VERY good

But I prefer the suble subterfuge of the shooting sisters.

that being said..

Do what makes your heart sing=)

[mellow rain]

The issue with the melee sisters, good as they are, is they need a delivery system to not just get shot to death

Be that a kharon

Or something else

[keen elm]

Ah, So the judges sheild is 5++ vs shooting 6++ vs melee

[jagged swan]

i see, however if i get a knight abyssal i think i'll put her into an other units

like allies custodes

or on other list on other melee units

[mellow rain]

Yep that’s a very strong thing to do

But both the custodes and sisters lose some of their rules when you mix

[jagged swan]

o

how about with any other imperial units

for exemple if i put knight abyssal with a myrmidax squad or cenobium

[keen elm]

I do run SOS allied into Ultramarines using Logos (melee focused Rite of war)

But mixing sisters is rough.

Anathema is -1LD and does cut thru stubborn

[mellow rain]

So a lot of rules/subtypes like skirmish, light, fleet etc require the whole unit to have the rule to get the benefits

[jagged swan]

o but in a simplier units like terminators it could work ?

or the astartes are way too demoralized by women :(

[keen elm]

Blanks are rough on the mind.

one big thing sisters have is they cant be touched by anything psyker

[mellow rain]

So the Ld thing is weird, because the squad gets. Ld penalty but the abyssal is fearless anyway 😂

[jagged swan]

o

well its harder to be afraid by the enemy if you are already terrified by your friend

for psy i haven't really understood : if there is a sister in any squad, will the squad be untargetable by psy or just the sister ?

[mellow rain]

Anathema Sub-type: • A unit that includes at least one model with the Anathema Sub-type may not be directly targeted by any Psychic Power or use any Psychic power or make attacks with a Psychic Weapon, Psychic Powers whose effects would otherwise be applied to a unit that includes at least one model with the Anathema Sub-type (due to area of effect, scattering or other rules) have no effect, but are not cancelled and may continue to affect other units.
• A model with the Anathema Sub-type that is allocated Wounds caused by a Psychic Weapon (which is any weapon granted to a unit or model by a Psychic Discipline) will always fail to Wound without any dice being rolled and any special rules attached to that Psychic Weapon will not trigger. Any Wounds allocated to a model with the Anathema Unit Sub-type caused by a Force Weapon gain no benefit from the Force special rules, but are otherwise resolved as normal. These effects do not apply to a model with the Transport Sub-type that has models with the Anathema Sub-type Embarked within, unless the model with the Transport Sub-type also has the Anathema Sub-type.

• All models that no not have the Anathema Sub-type but are part of a unit that includes one of more models with the Anathema Sub-type, suffer a penalty of -2 to their Leadership Characteristic. Any unit with at least one model within 6" of a model with th eAnathema Sub-type suffers a penalty of -1 to the Leadership of all models in the unit that do not also have the Anathema Sub-type, or -2 if that unit includes one of more models with the Corrupted Unit Sub-type. Note that these two penalties are not cumulative; they apply only the more severe penalty. However, they do stack with other special that modify Leadership (such as Fear (X)).
• A unit that is Embarked on a Vehicle, Fortification or Building suffers no penalties to its Leadership Characteristic due to the Anathema Sub-type, However, units with the Stubborn special rule do suffer penalties to their Leadership from the effects of this Sub-type (note that this only applies to the Stubborn special rule, and other special rules that ignore panalties to Leadership ignore the effects of the Anathema Sub-type).

[jagged swan]

wow that's maybe the longest special rule i ever saw

[mellow rain]

Yeah 💀

With sisters being rare, if you want to run them be prepared to explain the above 💀

[keen elm]

Yep.. some folks have never seen em

[jagged swan]

at least since terminators have stubborn they won't be scared by abyssal lady

or i misunderstood

[mellow rain]

However, units with the Stubborn special rule do suffer penalties to their Leadership from the effects of this Sub-type

[jagged swan]

oh i misready indeed

[mellow rain]

So they lose Ld, but you can use the highest Ld in the squad

Which is the sister

[jagged swan]

oh ok

yeah ld 10 very good

scary lady makes other scary things looks like unicorns and rainbows

[mellow rain]

As good as it gets

She’ll walk up to your opponent’s praetor and eat him

Shes scary

[jagged swan]

isn't the S4 with parangon blade a bit underwhelming tho ? or it can get better

[mellow rain]

Yeah it’s not great, but it’s AP2 so they’re only taking invulnerable saves, and ex oblivio makes them WS1 (so she hits on 2s and they only hit her on 6s)

Plus the blade has murderous strike

[jagged swan]

o that's quite cinematic

i imagine the sister doing a death stare to the praetor, him glancing from fear

[mellow rain]

She just neuters non-primarch characters (and dreadnoughts!)

[jagged swan]

o

death stare to dreadnought is very epic indeed

i love scary ladies now

[mellow rain]

Yep they are very cool