Iron Hands, 2500pt Company of Bitter Iron

[tranquil lion]

Looking for some general feedback on my planned CoBI list. Played gunline HotG almost exlusively last edition so I wanted something different this time around, so unhinged post-istvaan psychos it is!

-----2500 Points, Iron Hands, Company of Bitter Iron-----

+++HQ+++

Praetor, Cataphractii Terminator

• Iron Father
• 2x Lightning Claws
• Morlock Retinue Squad (5)
• Legion Standard
• 1 Chainfist
• 4 Power Fists
• 4 Graviton Guns
• Dedicated Transport Land Raider

Moritat

• Jump Pack
• 2x Grav Pistols

+++Elites+++

Legion Destroyer Assault Squad (10)

• 2x Power Weapons
• Artificer armour+Power weapon on sergeant

Legion Contemptor Dreadnought

• Gravis Melta cannon
• Gravis Power Fist w/ bolter

+++Troops+++

Medusan Immortal Squad (10)

• Artificer armour on sergeant
• Land Raider dedicated Transport

Medusan Immortal Squad (10)

• Artificer armour on sergeant
• Land Raider dedicated Transport

+++Heavy Support+++

Legion Leviathan Siege Dreadnought

• Leviathan Siege claw w/ melta gun
• Leviathan Storm Cannon

---

Plan was originally to play more into a deep striking theme and rely less on tanks and dreadnoughts but dreads are just too cool to leave at home. The Moritat goes with the destroyers and the Immortals hold objectives while the rest of the lads smash face. What do you guys think?

[cursive fulcrum]

For your morlocks you can't have 5 grav guns and a legion standard. The standard replaces a combi-bolter

Also you forgot to @ the people with Iron Hands tactica

I think you should give the contemptor a grav gun on the power fist. They are very solid and worth taking

Otherwise it seems solid. The Iron Father with dual lightning claws seems interesting, but whatever. Also I assume the praetor is a cataphractii one, correct?

[tranquil lion]

yeah sorry, should have clarified. Its a cataphractii terminator praetor. The reason for taking the lightning claws is so you get the extra attacks for the machinator array as I believe you can allocate all your attacks to it, giving you 8 attacks total at I1

[tranquil lion]

Good catch! That free's up 10 points. Although I'd need 15 to put the grav gun on Contemptor. I was trying to make it work but I think the Artificer armour on the immortals would probably be more useful

<@&877302968955850772>

[tired leaf]

Do the immortals have volkites, bolters, or chainswords?

If you can fit the 40 points volkites are really damn good for increasing their damage output

[tranquil lion]

Stock standard Bolters

Super strapped on points, I’d have to cut the destroyers or the moritat to fit anything substantial

[mint patio]

Looks pretty solid to me mate, any suggestions from here would pretty much just be to taste. I prefer my immortals with a bit more gear (melee on the sgt to make the most of hatred, volkite chargers everywhere) but if you go down that path you'll need to make sacrifices elsewhere. Only places I can see to make those would be dropping maybe one morlock or a few destroyer bodies.

[thorny marsh]

Just so you're aware, you only get those additional attacks when using the claws themselves, they would not modify the amount of Machinator Array attacks you make. Those attacks you gain from having two claws are not added to your characteristic, they are added to the amount of attacks you make when attacking with the Lightning Claws (I.E. you need to be attacking with 1 claw two get the benefit of attacking with two claws).

On top of that, Lightning Claws are specialist and the machinator array is not, so they don't interact, so you don't count as having two weapons when attacking with the machinator array and thus you'll get no additional attacks at all if you choose to allocate all your attacks into it. If you want to go for lots of Machinator attacks, i'd suggest taking a non-specialist melee weapon ^^

Another thing, I don't know about your meta, but the double grav moritat can be super oppressive in my opinion, so I like to err on the side of caution and only outfit my Moritats with 1 grav pistol

[little dome]

actually, not really, you get +2 by having lightning claws. The rules don't say anything about getting them during attack only when using LC. You get +2 attacks for using 2 weapons, not LC. So you can get 9 attacks on the preator with machinator array when you charge. 4 base, +2 for having dual LC, +2 additional with machinator array (here it specifies you have to use the array for these) +1 for charge and you can use all 9 with machinator array (as per mechanicum faq) with hatred and shred at ws6 s5 ap2.

doesn't mention anything about having to use these 2 attacks only with LCs. So go forth and shred

[patent quartz]

The hell am I reading right now

[mint patio]

Idk what to call it but it makes me sad

[little dome]

I tried this and he only one sad was my opponent yesterday, when those 9 attacks with hatred and shred machinator array with morlocks wiped ahriman with his sekhmet in a single round of combat 10/10, would recommend this loadout

[verbal anchor]

Hi Just curious, which page is this? i also cant believe it

[little dome]

it's right on the close combat weapons page, I didn't come up with this, I found out about it here around 25 minute mark https://youtu.be/4a_U-RZvvuI

I checked the LC rules and it indeed just gives you 2 attacks for having them 🙂

[cursive fulcrum]

p137 liber astartes

[thorny marsh]

Specialist Weapon infers that you must attack with a specialist weapon to gain the additional attacks from other specialist weapons. Lightning Claws replace the +1 with +2 attacks.

The Machinator array still doesn’t have specialist weapon. You pick a weapon to fight with, then you check to see if you have a second weapon eligible for two-weapon fighting. As only specialist weapons can see specialist weapons when this is checked, I see no reason why the Machinator array gains +2 attacks. This is, in my opinion, a bend to put the rules, but crack on if you feel it is correct

[little dome]

But you are not fighting with a specialist weapon. Specialist weapon rule speaks about cases when you are using that weapon. Dual LCs have a general rule that has nothing to do with the specialist weapon rule, it's completely separate 🙂 The thing is, dual LC rule about getting 2 attacks makes no mention of the specialist rule. Just that you get +2 attacks for using additional weapon. That's all.

Because normally, you can't have dual LC AND another weapon, so they assumed you basically attack with dual lc thus having 2 specialist weapons, so they haven't included the specialist part in the dual lc rule. Oversight perhaps, but as it stands, the +2 attacks have nothing to do with the specialist weapon rule 🙂 so enjoy 9 attacks with machinator array

[verbal anchor]

Thanks!