#Role restrictable plural bot

19 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

wraith pecan
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Okay, I really hope me coming on to suggest a different one isn't annoying. I swear this is not a repeat.

Tupperbox is a bot which works very similarly to Plural Kit, but can be restricted to a specific role/roles. This would give the mods absolute control over who can use the bot. New users would not be able to troll with it.

I'm not the biggest fan of Tupperbox for Plural use due to it's strong ties to Role Play, but I'd much rather it over nothing, and Kat and 404 would almost certainly appreciate it more than anything.

Maybe it could be linked to a role that needs to be requested after reaching level 10 or similar? Only systems would have reason to use it in this way, and that's generally ~1% of accounts. So assigning the role wouldn't be a frequent event. Doing it this way would allow the mods to keep track of who can use it and what they're like.

Finally (I think), the last point about PK was that not many people would use it. I can mostly see where that is coming from, but I think using those numbers can be flawed. There are 6000 accounts in the server, sure; however most of those are inactive on here. Additionally, there are 4 people in our system, not just one (me). If we are extremely generous and say that 400 people are active then my system alone is 1% of active users. If it's 100 (which it looks like to me), its 1/25.
And as has been seen since that discussion, 404's point about the confusion over who is talking is real.

I don't expect an immediate response, especially as this isn't just a PK rehash

Looking forward to hearing what you have to say,
Zak

dense roost
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We have explored Tupperbox and while it does appear more polished than Pluralkit, it still poses the same issues, including

  • Difficulty in identifying the user behind a given message. The described functionality to identify the user via an emoji reaction appears flaky.
  • Multiple users can register the same persona name.
  • Messages are posted via a webhook and can't be blocked, thus preventing users from hiding messages from others in the server they have blocked.

Restricting usage via role doesn't really solve the problem unless access is given only to one user; if multiple users are given access then the first and second issues described above remain. The idea to restrict access to only certain users also poses the question of who should have access and what the criteria to be given access would involve. Realistically if it was added, it would have to be made available to everyone.

For these reasons, we could not consider adding Tupperbox here.

wraith pecan
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Thank you for taking your time on this. The outcome feels unfortunate but I can appreciate your reasoning - mostly about the inability to block users.

My thinking about the restricted access was mostly that it could be blocked from use until a certain level is reached, and/or after a conversation with the mods.

I would like to add that multiple users having the same persona can relate to the way systems work - I don't have time to explain it here but 'introject' is the keyword if it interests you. If it were me I'd just require a system name be used in the account and proxy names for ID.

Again though, I'm not intending to argue with your decision. I appreciate the time, work, and thought behind it.

  • Zak
wraith pecan
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One last thing: if a bot comes around that doesn't (or these ones update to) remove these issues, would I be able to let you know? I'll understand if it's getting annoying, but I doubt that it will happen for a long time as it'd require a change to how discord works.

I ony ask about these because of how much difference they make for 404 and Kat.

  • Zak
regal glen
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That’s the only way I can see is feasibly work without using webhooks & bypassing the block feature

wraith pecan
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That's what I'm thinking. Not likely.

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If I'm completely open and honest, (and again, I'm not intending this to be argumentative - I mean it conversationally) from my (and several friends) experience and pov the blocking issue is the only one which is likely to have a negative impact. The second seems like a good point, and there is good reason behind it; but it is actually pretty common for multiple systems to have one or two members which are the same as those in another system. Mostly the internalised forms of characters (a process those with DID are especially susceptable to).
The first is... Yeah there's potential for problems there, but I don't think I've ever seen anybody have to use that for moderation. Systems generally put their system name in the account nickname and proxy names - if they want to be more seperate than that they'll probably just alt account.

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Blocking may be rare but not being able to block when you need it.... that sucks. I'm going to take a look at some things to see if I can find an alternative - particularly an easy one - to achieve similar results. I probably won't be able to, but maybe....
-Zak

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Maybe we just buy Nitro for the alt accounts /j

bronze cedar
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The only way to get around all of this would be to invite custom bots whose tokens cannot be read by unauthorized users which would be a difficult logistical challenge even on a small scale

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Or I guess reading tokens is fine as long as they’re moderated and granted permissions like regular users

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Also every single one would have to be invited by a human to the server

wraith pecan
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😔

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It sucks so much

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Generally places are able to just get PK and it's fine. It is so, so much better than nothing. But then it has unavoidable issues which may or may not be be deemed as worth it

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And then the communication is hard both ways
For me and the others it's hard to communicate why we go as far as we can to get it, and then for the mods on some servers it can be difficult to explain their decision not to

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Especially to people like 404 that are... well when it comes to this they're pretty self-righteous and take a lot personally
She does make solid points and I do agree with them. But the emotional response is... strong

I don't know. It's like, the majority of potential problems can be fixed or aren't really there (ie abuse). If I wanted to (which I do not, for the record), I could spam the crap out of anywhere way easier by just opening a few browser tabs. Slow mode doesn't work on multiple accounts and then it's more work to stop the spam. But then the blocking issue is real and I realise that it could be a big deal for some people.

And I guess like,
If you are singlet and especially if you don't talk to any systems either it probably seems so pointless. We appreciate that you didn't just brush it off. But even then there are the finer points like introjects where you will have an Alter which is an internalised version of a person or character. And it's not rare to see multiple systems with introjects of the same characters. Or childhood trauma based vs non childhood trauma based
Or the use of system names
Just... it's so much to learn and I (and I think Zak) can understand that adding to how hard weighing everything up is

wraith pecan
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I'm tired as heck, I don't know if I'm making sense at this point and I should probably go

Have a good night,
Kat