#Alien Balance Megathread

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

hoary stag
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Making this so we can discuss all balance relating to Alien units/structures now that the split has hit main.

terse niche
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got to get them pinned.

tawdry radish
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cheaper nodes, more node health,let players spawn as most lesser units, cheaper crabs

terse niche
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Dram said he wants lessers to be like how human infantry are accessable.

terse niche
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407 nodes

tawdry radish
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we need it

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this and give scorp back to 12k health but keep same armor and balance is gud

strange bronze
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  • crabs :
  • little bit cheaper
  • higher jump
  • further leap (primary attack)
  • reduced meelee damage

This way fps players can be faster in scouting without ridiculously fast movement, and can get the jump on infantry a bit better. Reduced meelee to have less impact on vehicles and buildings so crabspam is more about cannon fodder/scouting than actually being battle effective.

hoary stag
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Almost every alien unit feels undertuned right now.

Lessers are too expensive, Scorpion is too squishy/slow, Goliath is the same.

Behemoth still feels underwhelming to use.

Firebug is too expensive and too high of a tech level, also the weakpoint is ridiculous.

Dragonfly feels awful to use, Squid is too slow for its intended purpose.

Colossus still has zero splash damage(at least in multiplayer).

Only really the Hunter and Defiler I have no complaints about.

strange bronze
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  • horned crabs:
  • double HP
  • reduced meelee against structures
  • rolling like a goliath? Or increased leap distance

It doesn't get used at all now, very expensive and dies to even scouts.
More HP to increase surviveability.
Its weakspot is its face, and it has to face a shooting enemy. Explains itself.
Rolling like a goliath would help shorten the distance while keeping the weakspot a bit covered. If not possible, just increased leap distance would help slightly.
Meelee dmg is fine, but can be reduced against structures to prevent fps player abuse.

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  • firebug:
  • move weakspot from belly to back.
  • slightly cheaper
  • reduce range slightly

Firebug is in a pretty good spot, very strong in a player's hand but ineffective if you let AI take the wheel.
The weakspot really makes no sense for an air-to-ground unit. It will fly above its target, exposing its weakspot and dying nearly instantly. (Fr what is the multiplier?)
Moving the weakspot to the back will allow both AI and players be a bit more resillient in battle with ground forces, but easier to counter with air units. Weakspot on the back also makes them more vulnerable when FPS players try to be sneaky and stay low to the ground, using terrain as an advantage. Also firebug exposes its back a little when engaging ground targets, so the weakspot won't be unreacheable.

strange bronze
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  • Behemoth
  • slightly more accurate
  • reduced dmg against structures
  • severely reduced meelee dmg
  • randomly variable max range between 425m and 375m

More accuracy will increase its effectiveness against air units as an AA unit.

Severely reduced meelee damage and reduced damage to structures to give it a proper AA role.

Randomly variable max range to minimise the effectiveness of max range sniping and/or being abused by air units staying at the exact max range, while still remaining reliably accurate at its effective range.

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  • scorpion:

  • slightly increase speed

  • very slight increase in HP or decrease of weakspot multiplier.

  • less parabolic arc

  • slightly less meelee dmg

Increased speed to keep up with tanks so they can stay in engagement longer and not being held outside range as easily.

Less parabolic arc to make it harder to shoot from behind cover (fps players abuse it mainly) this also helps with leading targets at bigger distances.

Slightly less meelee damage because it's a bit too strong against both vehicles and buildings. This will make it fit a more tank- like role.

timid hamlet
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Firebug
i have to agree that it always feels too expensive to field for the cost. I would almost say if the weak spot were moved and the others stayed the same, it may be in a good place.

Horned Crab.
What if the horned crab had a short ranged flame attack? Something to differentiate it more from the crab and give a little utility against early game infantry swarms.

Defiler
Always feels like it dies way too easily. Its a big slow target with a short ranged weapon (at least that's how it feels when i use it anyways) they seem to get swatted out of the sky more often than not.

Take these with a grain of salt, just personal impressions from someone who's still learning the game. 😂🤣

strange bronze
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  • dragonfly
  • increase top speed to exactly fighter speed, slow acceleration.
  • reduce range to 250-300m
  • double damage
  • reduced damage against structures
  • make it fire bursts, with 'overheat' like behemoth.
  • move to greater cyst
  • increase price
  • slightly increase size

Doesn't need much explaining. This would make it more fitting as an AA dogfight unit.
As an fps player would be far more enjoyable.

Less range and dmg against structures so there's no range abuse.

strange bronze
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  • Goliath
  • increased health
  • decreased damage
  • decreased price
  • rolling closer to ground

More than often, because their low speed, goliaths will die before doing any damage at all. With more HP it will be a bit easier to get anywhere, BUT too effective when it manages to get on a building, usually using it as cover and jumping from one building onto the other. So reduced damage to structures/vehciles will balance it out more.

A Goliath crawling on a structure alone, is bad enough because it's dangerous for friendly fire with big calibers and high explosives, while players and AI are urged to get it ASAP. So less damage output will give more time to work with.

The roll- jump is fun, but slightly overpowered in certain situations.
Especially inside a base, jumping from structure to structure, avoiding fire is very powerfull. Decreasing flight time and keeping more grounded will help prevent being too powerfull.

These changes will help it keep enemies occupied as a bullet sponge, a better support role in a large push, while also still remaining a good anti-structure unit, without being overpowered.

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  • colossus
  • double hp
  • half dmg
  • slightly reduced range

Go-to unit for any alien commander who wants to win. One of the only effective long ranged alien units.
Mass colossus and hit HQ ASAP. Win.
This provides a very linear, boring meta.

With more HP they will occupy the enemies longer as bullet sponges, supporting the team and allowing other alien forces to close the gap aswell.

Reduced damage and range so they're not as effective on quickly 'sniping hq', and will be used for more various tactics like flanking less defended parts, supporting a large push instead of leading and also use their time and effort to shoot other units like rockets trucks and tanks.

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  • defiler
  • faster regen
  • primary attack more consistent
  • reduced meelee dmg

Its in a pretty good spot.
Faster regen so it won't be sniped across map as easily when used to defend the backlines, aswell as help its surviveability when being the main AA support unit for a colossus, without becoming an OP frontline unit.

The main complaint is the horrid consinstency of the main attack. You never know what's actually going on. Sometimes its super effective, other times you're not hitting anything.

Reduced meelee just balances it out more, for example when it sneaks around and starts eating harvesters and refineries in the backlines. Gives humans a little more time to respond to a sneaky player.

strange bronze
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  • Aliens in general
  • more biotics
  • faster unit regen in proximity of nodes
  • double node hp
  • increase turret prices

Aliens are not in a bad spot. 50% people complain they're underpowered, 50% that they're overpowered.

They're very situational. At range in open areas underpowered, but in areas with lots of cover and at close range, overpowered.

Faster regen for aliens at the nodes will help them with defending, wich they're weak at rn. Large Increase in turret price because they're too effective at defending when spammed. This also has to be done to compensate for the extra bio, wich would make it even easier to spam turrets.

All the suggestions I made about the units here, would imho help balance them out a little more, decreasing that hard to balance gap, but it has to be accompanied by a little more biotics, since the individual units will be less effective at close range and destroying structures, so a larger amount of units is required, wich everyone wants for a swarm faction, without being OP.

prisma basalt
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If the base crab gets its damage exchanged for speed id love for horned crab to get the anti tank capability instead. (As an fps player who loves to murk tanks)

I’m still going to miss the current one for this task though probably. Cause the horned crab is like twice as tall.

tawdry radish
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dragonfly needs to become a ripstick

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stronger better deadlier and terrifying to human air

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give the damn spire weapon lmao

fathom tapir
pastel lodge
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Also why on earth would you Nerf the alien's melee?

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its their best feature

fathom tapir
pastel lodge
strange bronze
# pastel lodge Also why on earth would you Nerf the alien's melee?

all the changes I suggest relate to eachother. I keep the total balance in mind. yes, it's very fun for an FPS player to decimate anything with meelee, but in the bigger plan, you want a swarm faction. to make the units more swarm-able they have to be reduced in strength, or they will be outright OP.

strange bronze
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  • AI needs work, - they need to be a bit better at range or at closing the distance, - accompanied by nerfed a little at close range and vs structures. a crab in your structure is funny and all, but when it's 5 with the meelee damage they do now, you'll lose your building within 30 seconds. another example, a horde of aliens chilling behind a crest. good luck sending your units over said crest. they'll make it, but instantly die to a scorp or a behe waiting at the other side of the crest. reducing their meelee slightly will allow humans to "overrun" them without losing a ridiculous amount of vehicles and getting nowhere.
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Aliens need more eco in general, and accompanied by the extra eco = extra units for swarming, wich exponentially increases their strength. they would become OP fast.

pastel lodge
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Alien swarm units are ridiculously expensive

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Your suggesting nerfs to things that aren't getting used because they might be too strong if the aliens could close the Gap. But that's a big If at this point so it's not worth worrying about until melee actually goes up in use. When behes and scorps can melee a tank without the Tank just having an AI pilot that lets them, and that part will be fixed, only then can we talk about is it's melee damage too much

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Just boosting Aliens eco will not help Aliens swarm, they will just double down on their old effective units and make more of them

strange bronze
pastel lodge
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Behe is not a dedicated AA unit

strange bronze
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would be nice if it were

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it's not far off.

pastel lodge
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It's very far off its range and accuracy are crap. I hate using a Behe for AA duty.

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It's fine as a generalist

strange bronze
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well if my suggestions weren't better range and accuracy though??

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how u comment on my suggestion and then completely ignore that I think the same way lol

pastel lodge
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That ends up just turning it into a Railgun tank?

strange bronze
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now I definately know you didn't read

pastel lodge
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I skimmed

pastel lodge
# strange bronze now I definately know you didn't read

Random range Variable is more trouble than it's worth. As an Alien you need to know you maximum range it's going to be very confusing when players don't hit what should have been a hit based on range, and for competent players your just trading one downside for another that's nearly the same

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Honestly the Behe weapons are fine. Dram hates hitscan if anything he wants to nerf Behe.

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It needs to be better in other Areas

strange bronze
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pretty clear that 375m you hit every shot, and further out, it's inconsistent. otherwise the behe, will be too effective. with the hard cap at 400m right now, human air takes advantage of that and stays at exactly 405meters while killing the behe's.

pastel lodge
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Your trading 1 random number generator for another. And that assumes Dram is willing to buff accuracy at all

strange bronze
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having shit accuracy is just frustrating

pastel lodge
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It is

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Could see Dram maybe moving the accuracy penalty into more of a recoil penalty

strange bronze
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different solution for the same problem. the fact is there needs to be some changes to the behe.

pastel lodge
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A full burst would have bad accuracy but if you take short shots you'll be accurate

strange bronze
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sure why not

timid hamlet
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Recoil on a laser feels odd though.
What about a slower firing laser that charges up automatically, you can rapid fire but your shots do less damage and have less range, but if if you wait longer between shots it increases in damage and range?

timber jacinth
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Not recoil, but maybe thermal distortion of the lens system leading to subsequent shots being less accurate. Or the energy pulses generated upon firing interfering with the nerves that control the muscles aiming the lenses.

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That's why the laser may veer downwards or to either side, instead of only upwards like true recoil would.

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I'd favour no charge up mechanic, but one that lets you take slow and deliberate shots with high accuracy. Like Golanx suggested. Give the aliens one unit that's capable of accurate fire over medium range.

fathom tapir
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Im still hoping we can get a continuous beam weapon behe